Yoga For Back Pain

In this episode, Dr. Gina and Eric Peters (yoga therapist) discuss their online program Yoga for Back Pain. A holistic program combining yoga, mindfulness, meditation and coaching to address mindset, blocks and stay on track.

Transcript

Welcome to Living Simply,

A guide to mindful living and mindful parenting with your host,

Dr.

Gina.

Hey everybody,

Welcome to another episode of Living Simply.

Dr.

Gina,

How are you today?

I'm good Ben,

How you been?

I'm great,

And today we have a very special guest,

Eric Peters.

Eric,

How are you?

Okay,

I'm pretty good.

I'm fighting a bit of a cold,

But besides that,

Doing well.

Awesome.

So Gina,

Can you tell us a little bit about why Eric is here and then we'll get into who he is and what he does.

Yeah,

Eric.

I met Eric,

He was my yoga teacher.

He lives on my street and his specialty is yoga for back pain.

So I got to know him,

We became friends and he's launching an online program to help people with back pain.

So because I do some online work,

I offered to help him out and we could work together.

So it's a bit of a joint venture where he works on the yoga and I work on the mindfulness,

The mindset and the coaching portion of the course.

But mostly it's his course and I'm a bit of a guest on this course.

Great.

More than a guest.

So Eric,

How did you get into yoga?

How long have you been doing that for?

Well,

Ben,

You're really going to age me here because at the age of about 12,

So I'm 61 now,

But at the age of 12,

I was diagnosed with scoliosis,

Which is a severe curvature of the spine.

And I had to wear a back brace for four and a half years.

So from the age of 12 to almost 17,

I wear a back brace 24 hours a day.

The only time I could take it off was when I was showering or swimming.

So I became a pretty good swimmer just to have that freedom,

That time without the brace on.

Now,

When the brace came off and I was,

As I said,

I was about 17 at the time,

It didn't take long because I was dependent on this brace for so many years that my muscles began to weaken and atrophy.

So I would go into severe back spasms.

It got to the point where often I wouldn't be able to get out of bed for a couple of weeks.

I was addicted to severe painkillers,

Oxycontin and so forth.

And it was a pretty miserable time.

I went through every modality you can think of,

Acupuncture,

Chiropractors,

Physiotherapy,

Numerous cortisone shots.

And I would get some temporary relief,

But the pain would always come back.

And I lived like this for over a decade.

And I was living at the time in Montreal.

And I had a doctor,

Would you believe his name is actually Backman.

Dr.

Backman.

And so Dr.

Backman,

And we're going back a long time ago.

So we're going back over 30 years ago and he had read an article on yoga in the New England Journal of Medicine.

And he,

Well,

Actually he said to me,

He said,

I have something new that I would like for you to try.

And of course,

When your doctor tells you that,

You know,

You listen.

And he had told me other things to try.

And but when he first said it,

This was how unknown yoga was in those days,

I thought he mentioned yo yogurt.

He wanted me to he wanted me to try.

And I said,

You know what?

I said,

I'll eat anything you ask me to eat.

But I'm sorry.

I just there was only one flavor in those days.

So she said,

No,

No,

No,

No.

It's just not yogurt.

He goes,

It's yoga.

And that's out of India.

And and I think it could help you a lot.

And there's in those days,

You know,

There was there was no no Internet,

At least that I was using.

And but there was one one would you believe yoga studio in all of Montreal.

And I went there and it was very traditional called Shivandanda Yoga,

The 12 basic postures.

But I couldn't do it.

But the teacher was lovely.

And she agreed to meet with me privately.

So the thing that I learned from her,

Which I pass on to my students and in the course that we teach,

Especially,

Is that you begin from wherever you are.

I'll ask people,

Is there I can't do yoga.

And I'll say to them,

Are you breathing?

Said,

As long as you're breathing,

You can do some type of yoga.

So you basically so even,

You know,

For me,

When I first started breathing,

If I couldn't turn my head,

I could hardly turn my head to the right without considerable pain or to the left.

So you begin from wherever you are,

Not from where you used to be or you would like to be.

And that's really one of the main principles of yoga is the acceptance of it.

But you,

Ben,

Can stop me at any time because I can once I get rolling,

As Gina knows,

I can go.

I love it.

Yeah.

No,

I'm I'm I'm I'm very excited about all of this.

So so how did so how did you develop your own program?

And then we'll get into how you and Gina met and and how you developed this current program.

So when did you start becoming a practitioner of yoga?

So I've been teaching for about 20 years now,

But I've been practicing for over 30 years.

So it was a good decade plus that I was just a student.

And then and then I was in a I was in a business in those days that I hated.

I was really struggling with.

And I decided that I was going to risk it all.

I was just approaching 40 years old and call it wasn't really a midlife crisis,

But a midlife career change.

And I decided to to switch in my my interesting story because my my father is American and we're Canadian.

And so and so I told him what I was doing and he didn't have any idea what yoga yoga was.

And I said,

Well,

Yoga is a union.

So union between the mind and the body.

And he said,

Oh,

Yeah,

He goes,

That's what's created the United States.

He says,

Without unions,

We wouldn't have a strong America.

So so it took a number of years before my my military father got on board when he started to see the amazing changes that it made,

Not just physically,

But even more so,

I would say emotionally.

And I think that's one of the main benefits is that it just doesn't only stabilize and strengthen the body,

But as well the mind and what you learn on the on the yoga mat you take with you into all other aspects of your life.

So,

Gina,

When did you yourself start practicing yoga?

I've been practicing yoga.

I've been practicing yoga on and off since probably my first year of college.

I lived in Quebec,

So college,

You enter college when you're 17.

So I did it in college university,

But never this dedicated yoga practitioner.

So I was always saying I'm an eternal beginner.

So I've done it,

I guess most of my adult life.

I'm flexible,

So it helps a little bit.

So I don't look like a beginner.

But yeah,

I'm not like Eric where I do it five days a week yet.

I strive to get to that point.

But yes,

I always get in it,

Out of it,

In it,

And I've always done yoga poses,

At least at home for stretching and stuff like that.

But if I may interject for a moment.

It's,

I actually tell people,

They'll tell me why I can't do yoga because I'm not flexible.

It's actually for people who are not,

Of course people who are flexible do it and do it well.

But for those of us who are not flexible,

It's even more advantageous because you really learn to live within your own limits and work within those own limits.

And we live in a very judgmental,

Physical culture.

Most of the yoga that I find,

Not that I'm putting down any yoga is good,

But a lot of the yoga,

It's probably been,

You're too young to remember disco.

But I like to refer to it as disco yoga because it's really all physical,

All movement.

And they might throw in a little bit about the breathing here and there.

But it's really about paying attention.

The five main principles of yoga are breathing,

Relaxing,

Feeling,

Feeling what it is that you're experiencing.

And that if it's a feeling,

It's a meditation.

So just like any,

And I know Gina,

You've been talking a lot about mindfulness and about what meditation is and how you bring awareness into the body.

So you notice,

Oh,

My goodness,

Why would I do this and raise my arm all the way up if this creates pain?

What if I just did this?

Maybe that's better.

So you learn to trust and to begin always again.

So just like in meditation,

Your mind wanders,

You start over.

You start over.

It's the same thing when you're doing a yoga movement or even a restorative pose.

There's many,

Many different kinds of yoga.

So I teach what's called therapeutic yoga,

Mostly,

And restorative yoga.

The differences are is that restorative yoga for some people are in severe back pain.

Like I was when I first started,

I needed to do a lot mostly restorative yoga.

And that is using supports,

Props like pillows you might have in the house or blankets and putting them in a position where they can support you so you can feel comfortable.

So your body could be at ease.

So it might just be lying back like this on just a few pillows and just stretching out the back and breathing.

And so that is restorative yoga,

More of a stillness where therapeutic yoga is what I teach is a more customized approach where each person is different.

So each person,

Depending upon what their needs and requirements are,

They find their own practice.

So where the real benefits come in,

As Gina was saying,

Is that is when you start to practice on your own.

You can only go to so many classes.

And so the real key is to begin somewhere.

So I start with people to just do five minutes.

Start with five minutes a day.

But do it every day rather than go to one class once a week.

Make it a part of your life just like getting up and brushing your teeth and getting dressed.

There is a saying in yoga that the price of discipline is always less than the pain of regret.

So we take care of our.

.

.

I like that.

Yeah.

So we take care of ourselves first,

Just like we look after ourselves.

We put the mask on us on the airplane,

God forbid,

If it was going down even before we put it on our children,

Right?

So you always look after yourself first.

Gina,

Tell me a little bit about how mindfulness comes into play with yoga and especially with the program.

And I think that that would be a great segue into talking a little bit more about the program as a whole.

So in your expert opinion,

How does mindfulness play an added role in the yoga process?

Well,

Yoga itself is a mindfulness practice.

So people literally have to be in their bodies,

Focus on the breath and the postures and not focus on the thinking like Eric was saying where.

.

.

Don't compare to other participants or how you used to be because then you're stuck in your head and then you're no longer mindful.

So the mindfulness component of yoga is being present in your body and always coming back to this moment in time.

And keeping your attention on your breath and the posture.

But in addition,

In this program,

The mindfulness is about the problem,

Whether it's yoga or working out or sticking to a diet or any habit you're trying to change is a lack of mindfulness and presence.

So it's about trying to help people notice what's in their way.

So if you're not present to notice what's in your way,

You can't shift it.

So whether it's.

.

.

A lot of it is mindset.

I don't have time.

I'm not good at it.

Excuses.

So it's bringing presence into what are the choices you're making?

What are the values like we've talked before?

And how do you make your choices consciously and with presence aligned with your values?

And not just being knee-jerk reactions,

Avoidance,

Putting off and being really mindful.

Am I taking care of myself?

So the mindfulness is actually basically just helping people be present so that the only thing you can change is the present moment.

You can't change the past or the future.

So it's really getting people grounded in this moment in time.

And that's where you can place your energies.

So let's talk about how you guys put them both together for this yoga for back pain course.

So I'll introduce how the program works and then Eric can pop in.

So Eric,

The whole training that he gives is there are different programs and their yoga routines.

And there's an assessment and all this.

So his practice on his own is a mindfulness practice.

Where I come in is if in addition people want help in how to meditate,

How to be mindful,

But also a bit like a life coach,

A bit like you have a personal trainer.

So Eric works on the body,

The breathing and everything that's related to yoga.

And I would work mainly on the mindset or helping people create a schedule,

See what's in the way,

How to incorporate yoga in their lives.

So more the life coaching component of how to integrate yoga in their day to day lives.

And Eric can describe more his component of the program.

So for example,

I just came from a class that I just talked to this morning.

A woman who was hesitant to come to the class.

She's been taking yoga with me for maybe about six to eight months.

And she was diagnosed with quite severe vertigo,

Dizziness.

And her doctor told her that she should stop doing yoga.

But she knew through the classes,

Well maybe not,

Maybe I should still go and just show up and see how it goes.

So I walked in and she told me about her condition.

And I told her certain things that should be counter indicated and just to be mindful and aware of not bringing your head down too quickly or bringing your head up too far.

And she at the end of the class said,

You know what Eric,

This was like the best class that I've ever had with you.

Because I needed to bring more awareness and attention into it and to be gentle with myself.

And I would during the class say,

I would check in with her until I noticed that she was doing okay to start checking in with herself as the class progressed.

So,

And this is really what I try to teach people is to trust the body.

And I think that's so,

Especially when I first got started,

There was just so much fear.

What if I bent over with my legs quite straight and tried to be,

People think,

Oh,

I have to touch my toes.

I can't touch my toes.

I can't do yoga.

Absolutely zero to do with it.

I think it would be worth it if you explain the structure of the program you developed online,

How it's going to work so people know the difference between an in-class versus at home.

Right.

Okay.

So,

So this is about a 30 minute yoga assessment.

And it begins with looking at the low back,

For example,

To see if you've got a sway back or a flat back,

Scoliosis like myself,

Roundness in the shoulders,

Your breathing patterns.

So I basically take the individual through this 30 minute.

It's just,

It's a,

It's a recording.

So you have a sheet of paper and you're basically doing it on your own and you're assessing where you are today.

And so you write down,

Oh,

You know,

Today I've got extremely tight hamstrings.

I've got neck issues,

Whatever it might be.

And then from there,

You,

You then choose from a series of videos.

So you'll look at the videos that are,

So let's say it's scoliosis.

So you'll look at the scoliosis videos and they might,

And they're 15 minutes,

30 minutes and 60 minutes.

And then you decide based on your time commitment,

But maybe it's best that I just start with 15 minutes because I don't want you to starting with 60 minutes.

And,

And then only doing it,

Let's say once or twice a week,

Better that you do 15 minutes,

But do it at least six times a week.

Right.

So,

So it's about just,

It's about gently,

Just like water flowing over,

You know,

A rock,

But in time makes a little indentation over time into that rock.

It just,

It's,

It's day by day by day and it's just a process.

And then you start to feel,

Oh my goodness,

You know,

My,

My back pain is,

Is,

Is improving or I'm,

And then other huge benefits of maybe,

You know,

Handling stress better,

Handling work better,

Family better.

Because the breath,

Breath brings intelligence into the body.

So breath brings space.

So we're able to sit back and we're able to make better,

Better decisions for ourselves when we are more conscious of something that we have inside of us internally from the moment we're born to when we die.

So the essence of yoga,

Ben,

Is really the breathing.

That's the essence of yoga.

That's amazing.

So I am definitely going to check this course out myself because I'm excited about it.

And I love yoga.

You know,

Do it as,

Yeah,

I started doing it like a few years ago and I loved it and then I got a little off of it and then I got back into it sort of recently.

It's,

It's fantastic.

It really is great.

It's,

I prefer it a lot more than the,

I did a heavy workout yesterday with a trainer and my arm,

Like I can't lift my arm right now past here because all of this is in pain.

So I think I'm actually probably when we hang up going to go do some yoga real quick to try to stretch everything out.

But class next time.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Even,

Even in the chair,

Right?

Yeah.

One minute yoga now.

So,

Uh,

All right.

So,

Eric,

Where can people find more information out about you and then where can people find the course.

Okay,

So the course is now online and you go to learn learn.

Yogaforbackpain.

Com.

So that's basically the course.

So my,

My website will also have a link to it,

Which is healing yoga,

Ottawa.

Com that's healing H E A L I N G yoga,

Of course,

Y O G A Ottawa O T T A W A.

Com.

And that will have a link as well to the course.

Awesome.

And we're going to put all of those links in the description of this episode.

So whether you're watching this on YouTube or listening to it on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you consume this,

All of those links will be in the description below.

And Gina,

This is,

I mean,

This has been the least Gina centric episode of your show that we've done yet.

But,

Um,

So in addition to people getting help with this course through you,

Obviously you are available for all sorts of coaching and parental counseling and all of that stuff.

So where can people find you at?

DrMadrigrano.

Com and on social media.

Awesome.

Thank you guys so much.

And,

Uh,

Eric,

It was a pleasure to meet you.

It was wonderful to meet you too,

Beth.

Thank you.

Thanks.

For more information or to book an appointment with Dr.

Gina,

Go to DrMadrigrano.

Com or click the link in the description of this episode.