Pursuing Meaning Over Happiness

There are so many books, podcasts, and articles on the pursuit of happiness. Why are so many people dissatisfied with their lives, even if they seem to have it all? This episode looks at the benefits of pursuing meaning over happiness. How happiness is fleeting, yet meaning is enduring. Understand that meaning gets us through those difficult moments and makes life worth living, no matter your circumstances.

Transcript

Welcome to Living Simply,

A guide to mindful living and mindful parenting with your host,

Dr.

Gina.

Hello everybody and welcome back to Living Simply with Dr.

Gina Madrigano.

My name is Ben Barber.

Dr.

Gina,

How are you today?

I'm content.

How about you,

Ben?

I'm fine.

It's good to see you.

What are we talking about?

Pursuing meaning over happiness.

I like it.

What does it mean?

No pun intended.

Happiness,

As you know,

Is an emotion and people pursue happiness or try to pursue happiness all the time.

The thing with happiness,

Because it's an emotion,

Is fleeting.

It's no different than anger,

Joy,

Frustration.

It doesn't last.

So what gets people through life is more meaning over happiness,

Because we'll see it even with people who seem to have it all,

Who basically say they're not happy and they don't have a purpose or a meaning in life.

Life is,

As I've said several times,

Life is random.

It's suffering.

There's injustice,

Malevolence.

There's a lot of bad things that happen across the lifespan.

At least a couple,

Yeah.

And we can't predict what or when these things will happen.

And what gets us through the difficult moments of life is meaning.

When life is hard,

What will get you through it and not break you down is,

If we use an example,

Many people say,

If it weren't for my kids,

I would end it.

So their kids give their life meaning.

Obviously,

That's an extreme example,

But meaning is what gets us through the difficult times.

And what we value is what gives our life meaning.

What we notice in the world is what we value,

What we pay attention to.

So what's important when I work with clients often at midlife,

So they've checked all the boxes,

They got the good job,

Everything,

The kids,

The house.

And we work together at let's redefine what gives meaning to your life because their life satisfaction is pretty low.

So that's where we like to start to see what brings your life meaning.

And we work our way back in defining their values and how this can show up in their lives.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Absolutely.

I think that this reminds me of the question,

One of my favorite questions to ask people is,

What is your definition of success?

Because,

You know,

So many people define success as a monetary value or a house or something in a something tangible,

Right?

Like that they can that,

You know,

I have this much in my bank account,

Or I have this car or I have this,

Or like my kids can go to this school or even like I can pay for my kids to go to this college.

You know what I mean?

And,

And like,

That's,

Those are all,

Those are all fine markers of success,

But none of them lead necessarily to meaning and happiness.

And I think it's a very,

Like,

How we,

How we look at these things in our lives,

How we judge these things in our lives matter so much.

Because like you said,

Meaning is not meaning happiness is,

Is,

Is fleeting.

And you can get to a state where you are more happy than you are not.

And you get,

But like the way you started this show was I asked you how you were and you said content.

Yeah.

And that is amazing.

Being content is,

Is sustainable.

Yes.

You know,

At least more sustainable.

You're not gonna,

Another thing is like,

You're not going to be everything all the time.

So like,

When you're saying that you're pursuing happiness,

It's like,

I can't wait to get to this like Zen like level of bliss and happiness where everything works out and I never have any more problems and whatever.

And like,

Dude,

You're still gonna stub your toe,

You know?

Yes.

Your pet is still gonna die.

Your loved one is still gonna get sick.

You're gonna,

You know,

You're gonna have a bad day.

Things are gonna happen.

Like happiness is not a,

Happiness is not a destination.

It's a means of travel,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

Like it's a,

It's an unrealistic expectation that you think that you're going to get to bliss.

Well,

And yeah,

Sorry.

And people who chase happiness are really disappointed because of what you're saying.

It's not sustainable.

Right.

Because of what life puts on your path.

And we thought biggest example,

The pandemic,

How can you be happy when suddenly when it starts it's chaos.

You don't know what's the next thing's gonna happen,

But you could still be content.

And that's how people flipped the script on this is it forced people to shift and be content with their lives.

Oh,

Okay.

We're all working from home.

That's awesome.

I get to be with my kids all the day,

Every day,

Even if it's hard for them working from home.

So what happened is it to some degree it gave their life meaning and happiness becomes a by-product of meaning as opposed to a goal you're trying to reach because it's impossible to sustain because of how life is designed.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

So when someone comes to you and talks about their happiness and what like and that they're because depression and anxiety are so prevalent now in our society and not that they never were,

Just that we didn't necessarily diagnose them and we didn't necessarily and you know it was like oh Kevin's kind of weird like he's you know he's sad all the time and he's he kind of freaks out about that you know what I mean and like sure we have names for them now and we have diagnoses and we have treatments and we and we have understanding.

And but a lot of times like when people come to see you I'm sure they're talking about these things and you think that the natural like antonym for your ailments the opposite would be happiness so that's why it seems like a natural goal right?

So how do you sort of how do you structure that when people come in and talk to you about it?

Well when they come I always ask them I always tell them I'm going to start with the end.

So I'll say picture you've been to therapy everything worked what do you see what do you want?

They know what they don't want right?

I don't want to be anxious anymore I don't want to be depressed and I'm like okay no one wants to be depressed no one wants to be anxious that's that's a given for everybody.

So what differentiates you is what do you want?

So instead of focusing on I want to avoid pain it's it's the opposite then what do you want to pursue in your life that will give your life meaning so that the pain can you know subside and you can get better.

So focusing on what we want as opposed to what we don't want to to make that little leap and how do we decide what we want is what would make my life meaningful as opposed to happy.

So for some people they find meaning in their jobs right?

They're of service their job is gratifying some are public servants they they love to serve the public that way while others yeah they're they're good they have a job because they have bills to pay but their meaning comes from their family their relationships.

So it's important to get clarity on again always the same what do you value what what do you value that you think would give your life meaning and getting more clarity around these things and being outside the box because some people for example I live in Ottawa so there's a lot of public servants but they're really dissatisfied with their lives so I go what would be your your dream like I see some of them my dream would be many of them actually I'd love to be a yoga teacher but then they're like how's that going to pay my bills you know they make over a hundred grand they have benefits I'm like what you don't have to quit your job why don't you start teaching yoga part-time and I use that because I think now I've had like five clients you know highly educated great jobs pays well and they all want to become yoga teachers and that means something because yoga besides a form of exercise is a way of life and that when they've been exposed to yoga it you know teaches them to be mindful present and and to slow down basically so you you can live a practical life you know pay your bills who likes to pay bills and taxes you might not find meaning in that thing but aside from that so those painful things what will make it worth it what will make your life worth paying those bills what you know if you think having kids you don't have kids but you have a that little guy you're like an uncle or stepdad or brother you see it it's not easy to be a parent you're constantly worried it's a lot of work but most people who have kids it's it's the hardest thing they've ever done yet the most rewarding thing that in their life and that's what meaning is is it's worth the pain and the struggle and it comes with a lot of pain and struggle and you're willing to do it anyway whereas if you're like I want to be a parent so I'm happy all the time well good luck you know you're the first year you don't sleep you won't be happy I promise you but your life will have a lot of meaning and and that's basically what meaning does is it gets you through those difficult times and the struggles it keeps your eye on the ball it gives your life direction it reminds you why you do what you do so I always tell your my clients who have a hard time sticking to something so especially anxious ones I'm like facing your fear will be hard it takes courage it's painful when you have anxiety to make yourself uncomfortable but remember why you're doing this I I my most amazing client in my career her anxiety was so severe ambulances had to be called it only took six sessions and her why to do the difficult exercises to get her through the anxiety and reduce the anxiety was her why she was getting married she didn't want to have a panic attack on her wedding day and she wanted to get on that plane to go on her honeymoon that was the big enough motivator to struggle through the pain of the anxiety so meaning gives us a why why do I do what I do right even you me the part of my job that I hate is the paperwork if I could pay someone to do it but no one no one can do my clinical notes I hate it why do I do my job it's because it's meaningful it it makes me feel good that I can have an impact on someone and it improves their lives they feel better so it's worth the pain of doing the paperwork yeah absolutely what gives your life meaning um happiness no I really enjoy helping people figure stuff out right so like that's the that's the goal for me that's what I really I really enjoy doing like when we are able to help a non-profit or a small business reach new people and help more people and create more sales and jobs and fundraising opportunities and and and and then that begets more help right like if you help a non-profit raise more money then they can use that money to then do more good and and then that gets gets there's a wonderful ripple effect to that and I love problem solving to make things better like I think that we I don't remember if it was this episode or another episode where we chatted about it was the first episode that we recorded today about truth where we talked about wanting reality to match your fantasy you know and I think that and I think that one of the one of the cool things that I get to do is help people's reality match their fantasy a little bit and that is worth the headaches yeah they get they get closer to their dreams yeah so sometimes you don't realize all your dreams but the journey towards that dream is well worth it most of the time we think about things I think in abstracts where we think about the ideal of something right and this is happiness versus meaning we think about the the abstract of happiness we think about the thing that we really want and we don't necessarily like if you ever imagine a place in your head that you're gonna go that you've never been to right like a museum or like a like a city or something you imagine it and you build it up in your head and then you get there and you're like this is there was a reality to this right like there's a like there's a garbage can over there and there's and like the these things like don't match up in your head that's happiness versus meaning I think too like and trying to live in the meaning while making it the while like having that attain a level of contentment and happiness I think is is the sweet spot and it's what I try to do for myself all the time you know try to ground yourself in meaning so that the so that when you get the fantasy when you get the thing that's in your head when you get the all of that stuff when you get to the happiness it means more if you have meaning which is a dumb thing to say meaning and meaning but no it does it's it matters more you know yeah and and I know you work super hard and long hours and my guess is you wouldn't do that because it can be very painful and tiring if you didn't find some sort of meaning in your job I mean maybe I don't know but that's yeah thank you I appreciate it even if it's it's just like being productive like who are we to define what meaning is it we have our own definition of what is meaningful and why it's meaningful I have a I have a I have a meeting after this recording session with someone who is a children's book author that wrote children's books about fun things that their son used to say and questions and whatever and she's talking to me about and I don't know if it'll go anywhere I don't care if it'll go anywhere like at the end of the day but she's talking to me about starting a podcast in her treehouse to talk to other authors and and have fun story times and whatnot and I'm like that's the coolest thing right to to be able to go like hey I have this dream and I and I have this thing and I'm like here's seven things that we could do to actually make it happen and to make you know what I mean like all of your all of your people that are like I make a hundred thousand dollars a year and I have great benefits but I want to be a yoga teacher you know I'm one of the people that are able to to go let's look at how that would work for you right and that's insanely gratifying so that's the thing and I'm excited about that every day yeah and yes and and I always tell people so if we use the yoga example is you don't have to quit your job now use your job to fund your dream and if one day it's more painful to keep your job than to leave it you'll be ready to leave it you'll be ready even if it means temporarily you'll make less money or you'll be creative enough to know how to make more money as a yoga teacher because we see a lot of successful yoga teachers that do make a lot of money so yeah I always say when you're ready for your dream the answers come the creativity the resourcefulness then follows when you're ready for it so it's worth pursuing something meaningful because there are so many beautiful surprises along the way that you never would have thought would show up is there anything else you'd like to add on meeting no that that was it that was a great episode thank you if you are listening to this or watching this and you would like to chat more about pursuing meaning over happiness with dr.

Gina you can reach out to her anywhere that you're listening or watching this there are links in the description of this episode dr.

Gina thank you I am grateful and you are one of the things that give my job meaning so I appreciate you same here by the way take care thank you guys we'll see you next time more information or to book an appointment with dr.

Gina go to dr.

Mandragrano.

Com or click the link in the description of this episode

Reviews

Thank you Dr Gina and Ben for this interesting discussion, some very great points! Much love 💓x