Overcoming The Depression Mindset

In this episode, Dr Gina discusses the common mindset pitfalls that we encounter in depression. She shares the positive counterpart of each mindset trap in order to overcome depression. Mindset traps such as lack mentality, the comparison game, making assumptions, passivity and blame, and so many more are discussed.

Transcript

Welcome to Living Simply,

A guide to mindful living and mindful parenting with your host,

Dr.

Gina.

Hey everybody,

Welcome back to Living Simply with Dr.

Gina.

Dr.

Gina,

How are you doing?

It is 2020.

Are you excited about the new year?

Oh yes.

I like the nice round numbers.

Yeah,

I'm excited,

New start,

Fresh start.

Awesome.

And also today joining us we have Crystal Tubbs.

Crystal,

How are you?

I'm doing well,

Thank you.

Awesome,

Thank you very much.

Crystal is the host of her own show,

The More Than Mimsy podcast,

And she is joining my producing team.

So we wanted to have a female perspective again on the show to sort of bounce questions off Dr.

Gina so that it's not just me.

So thank you very much for joining us,

Crystal.

Thank you,

Sorry,

I didn't mean to cut you off.

Dr.

Gina,

What are we talking about today?

Overcoming depression.

Yes,

A lot of people have the blues right now,

Right?

Some people,

It's because of the holidays,

Some people up north like me have what we call SAD,

Seasonal affective disorder.

So I thought it'd be a good topic to address.

You know,

Speaking of seasonal affective disorder,

I've always,

Living in Rhode Island,

Which is the northeast of the United States,

I've always felt horrible about winter and stuff.

But Gina,

You're in Canada,

And Crystal,

You're in Colorado.

You both completely have me beat,

And I have no reason to complain about that as far as snow and cold goes.

So let's talk about overcoming depression.

And obviously,

I'm sure that you,

Gina,

Deal with people that have depression a lot.

I'm sure that that's one of the main things.

What are some of the commonalities that you find in that,

Since all depression is different and unique?

Yeah,

So I thought it'd be interesting to look at what are common traits that I see in people's mindsets.

So I don't only see it with depression,

But I see it a lot with depression or low self-esteem.

So I thought,

Okay,

Let's look at these traits and how can we replace it with behaviors that are more conducive to a happier life?

So let's start with number one,

Lack mentality.

So obviously,

Let's put aside reactive depression,

Meaning something bad really happened.

So I don't consider that pathology.

Like if someone dies or you lose everything,

I think it's kind of normal to be sad.

So I'm not referring to that.

I'm thinking more of long-term mindset patterns that set in.

And then years and years of this or months and months has a huge impact on our mood.

So I'm referring to those things.

So when I think of lack mentality,

Many people listening probably already know,

But it's the not good enough,

I don't have enough,

I'm not enough.

So glass half full,

Half empty,

I forget which one it is.

Half empty.

So,

You know,

The negative mindset regarding not enough.

So when I work with clients,

How I shift that instead of debating with the thought and going,

Of course you have enough.

It's like,

Let's shift our mindset to a mindset of gratitude.

So let's look at what you in your life you already have.

Because thinking of,

Oh,

Well,

There's kids starving in Africa doesn't work.

So it's how do I focus my mind and notice what is already in my life that I can be grateful for?

And there's so much.

So that's a good first step to shifting out of lack mentality.

Cool.

And then I don't know about you,

Ben,

But that makes total sense to me.

I have been in that mentality.

You know,

I think the hardest thing for me when I just started trying to practice gratitude was just finding things to be grateful for.

Is there some kind of like focus or idea that you talk to your clients about when they're really struggling to find things to be grateful for?

Yeah,

I always start with the basics.

And so I connect what they're grateful for and why they're grateful for it so that we can connect an emotion to it.

So for example,

The basics,

If we talk that I'm in Ottawa,

So a government town,

Most people have jobs.

So the people who see me obviously have a job because they have benefits that pay to come see me.

So I'm like,

Let's start with,

Do you have a home to live in?

Shelter.

So yes,

I do.

So what's so great about having your home?

Right?

So right now it's getting to be cold.

Well,

I'm not freezing.

And so what's good about not freezing?

Well,

And I push it,

Push it,

Push it,

Right?

I'm near the fireplace.

I can sleep well.

So we really push it far as opposed to just,

I'm grateful because I have a house.

And then we look at,

Let's say they don't have a house.

Okay.

Do you have two legs?

Can you walk?

So what's so awesome about being able to walk versus if you were in a wheelchair,

Right?

Or in the hospital,

If you have eyesight,

If you can taste,

If you can hear.

So I literally start with the basics.

If a person really can't find anything because they're so negative,

I start with their bodies and what's all the capacities they already have.

And like I said,

Then I push it.

Why is it so good?

What would be the inconvenience if you couldn't see,

Couldn't walk,

Couldn't hear?

And that way you can live the gratitude and it's not just an intellectual exercise.

And do you think that people have a hard time with the lack mentality because they're playing the comparison game?

Yeah a lot of people,

They play the comparison game and usually people,

Like we've talked in other episodes,

People project on other people.

So they'll look at what other people have and they'll go,

I don't have that.

But people compare their externals,

Not their internals.

So right,

It looks all good on the outside,

But we don't know what's happening on the inside.

So the comparison game is a huge contributor to the lack mentality because people do compare to others.

So we're like,

Okay,

Let's start with not comparing.

Right,

So part of it is that to work on the comparison game.

I'm curious if you find social media kind of detrimental in that respect then since people are only posting kind of their best selves,

If you maybe have your clients say,

Well just take like a day off of Facebook and see how you feel.

Yeah I do a lot of social media hygiene,

Detox and let's reevaluate.

Social media is good,

But let's see what it's good for,

But what it's also not good for.

And research does show people who are on social media a lot are more depressed.

So a lot of education around social media,

Yes for sure.

Because people,

It's a fake world.

People usually just post the good moves,

Not the arguments with their kids,

Their spouses,

Their bosses or their ugly face in the morning.

Yeah,

So yeah,

Social media does contribute as well to the comparison game,

Totally.

Do you think that the social media comparison game of seeing everybody else's perfect lives,

Perfect curated lives,

Do you think that that is something that exacerbates the problem that people often have of resisting the things that are real about their own lives?

Like the,

You know what I mean,

Because we don't want to deal with situations that are resisting what is because we are playing this comparison game and we don't think that we should.

Do you think that that exacerbates this resistance to reality that people deal with?

And then could you talk a little bit about just the resistance to reality?

So I think maybe for some it does because behind social media,

The user of social media,

There are different personalities,

Right?

Different vulnerabilities,

Different reasons why they use social media.

So if it's an escape,

Right?

But if we connect it to resisting what is,

It is a contributor to,

I'll call it depression,

But any negative state of sadness,

Lack.

What is resisting what is is life is a certain way for this person and they wish it wasn't this way.

So they live what I call in the reality gap.

What's the reality and their wish and they're living in between those things.

So I tell them,

Let's first,

Let's see what is there so we can then reevaluate.

So you can change the course of your life if you need to,

But we can't change the course in a state of resistance,

Right?

So what is I'm thinking of a client who everyone has a boyfriend or husband.

I'm alone.

I don't want to be alone.

Okay,

But you are alone.

So let's see about the fact that you are alone and this person I'm thinking is just one failed relationship after the other and looking at why you're alone.

Maybe you're just picking the wrong guys and let's start from there before we find you another guy and then you'll be alone again because it won't work out.

So the more we can accept what is see it for what it is and acceptance doesn't mean we have to like it,

But it's from a state of acceptance.

Then we have the power to change our situation.

Whereas in the resistance,

Nothing can change.

We just spin our wheels.

What do you think?

Hi puppy.

That's all right.

We have multiple dogs.

I'm the only person that doesn't have a dog right now in the house.

So Crystal has lovely muted her microphone right now and that's okay.

So we'll go back to her question in a second if she's able.

Okay,

I think you stopped barking.

Sorry about that.

I was just curious what you think the biggest barrier to acceptance is or if there is one or if it's just something that we have to work on every day.

So two barriers.

Acceptance,

I think as people think if they accept,

It makes it okay and therefore it's not going to change.

The second one is people are averse to feeling these challenging feelings that show up from being in a difficult situation.

So we're in a society of,

We don't want to feel scared,

We don't want to feel anxious,

We don't want to feel any challenging emotion,

We only want to feel joy and happiness.

But it's in the pain that we grow and that we move.

So when people feel these difficult feelings,

Whether it's sadness,

Grief,

Regret,

They want to make it go away right away.

So they're bypassing the lesson that will allow them to change.

So people are scared to feel their feelings basically.

So if you accept,

You have to feel them,

Right?

A bit like we live in a winter wonderland.

The sooner I accept that it's winter,

The better I will dress when I go outside.

I'll have the proper boots,

The proper jacket.

Doesn't mean I love freezing,

But I'm less likely to freeze if I dress properly and I look at the weather.

But if I keep saying I can't wait for it to be summer,

I hate winter,

And I don't pay attention to that it is winter,

Well,

I'm less likely to cope with winter properly.

So it's the same for bigger things.

So this is a little bit of a transition.

But I know that when it's late August,

I'm immediately thinking how sad I am that summer's over instead of being in the moment and I'm worrying about the winter wonderland as you just described it.

What level of this pie chart of depression commonalities would you give to the not staying in the moment,

To either worrying about the future or regretting the past and not living in that current moment?

Well,

For depression,

People who have depression tend to live in the past.

People who have anxiety tend to live more in the future.

But a lot of people who have depression also have anxiety and flip side of it as well is just one is more primary.

So even in general,

Without having a diagnosis of anything,

People have a hard time being in the present moment altogether.

But in depression,

If I look at whether I see people in burnout because of work or because they've been abused by their partners or as a child,

They tend to live there.

So when you live in the past,

Your brain can't tell the difference on the timeline.

So if you keep reliving it,

So you keep being a re victimized,

Re victimized.

So you keep re traumatizing your brain.

So you stay stuck.

But it's not that you want to minimize that this person was victimized.

You want to acknowledge it and get help.

You just don't want to live there.

Because living there won't make it go away.

It happens,

You can't undo it,

But you can grow from it and learn from it.

So some things,

Obviously,

If it's childhood abuse,

There's not much you can do about it.

But if it's your workplace,

Maybe it's about you tolerated too much.

Maybe you didn't set boundaries soon enough.

How can you re empower yourself?

Then that's a positive way to look in the past,

Because it's constructive.

But just dwelling there with regret and self blame,

There's no point to it.

So it's better to come back to this moment in time and live from this point on.

Because it's the only real moment that exists.

The past and the future,

They do not exist.

Their memories,

Their thoughts.

Would you say some of it is just,

I mean,

I'm going to say maybe it's both mindset and choices on both of those.

The way that we view the present moment or the way that we're viewing the past or viewing the future?

Totally.

And that'll be one of our next episodes is the power of our choices.

So our choices are greatly impacted by our mindset.

And that's why working on our mindset is so important,

Because it will greatly influence the choices we're going to make.

Moment to moment.

Do I choose in this moment to obsess over my past,

Or do I choose to cherish this book that I'm reading and just get into it or listen to this song that I'm listening to on the radio and I was so quickly drifted off to the past.

I get to choose to bring myself back to this present moment every minute of the day.

So yeah,

It is a big choice,

Although it seems like a small choice.

I know that we've covered these subjects in the archives in the series that you did on the Four Agreements.

But what do you think about when people take things too personally or we start making assumptions?

I know that you feel like that can really be a big part of depression.

So what role do you think that plays?

I think they play a huge role.

And that's why I wanted to do specific episodes on them.

Because if we tend to take things personally,

If we start with that,

We're going to be offended a lot of the time.

It's rare that we get depressed when someone sends us compliments and showers us with affection.

But the world is not like that most of the time.

So people canceling on us,

People forgetting our birthday,

Not being invited to one thing.

So if we have a tendency to make everything about us and take things personally,

We increase the odds that we'll be upset,

That we'll go into poor me,

Everyone hates me,

Or turn into anger because depression can also be anger turned inwards or outwards.

And the same for making assumptions.

I think they go hand in hand.

If a friend cancels on you and you start making up this whole negative story,

It will impact how you feel,

Which will impact your choices,

Which will impact how you react to the person.

And I'd encourage people to listen to those two episodes if they want even more details.

You were just saying about making up stories and the stories that we tell ourselves.

Because I know that when somebody tries to help you through a tough time,

And they give you steps or you listen to something like this podcast where you get encouragement and you get sort of the steps to do it,

There's this feeling of like,

Oh,

It's so hard.

It's so difficult.

I can't keep going on that.

Sure,

It's easy to say,

But it's too difficult to do.

So what do you do when clients say,

It's too hard for me?

Yeah,

So I would say that's the phrase that comes up all the time.

And I'm not exaggerating.

When I give clients home practice,

Basically,

Because part of coaching or therapy,

All of the work is what you do outside the session with the coach or the therapist.

It's not what you do inside of the session.

So I'm like,

Okay,

When you go home and I give them things to practice.

Oh,

But it's so hard.

I always get that.

And I'm like,

Of course it's hard.

You're getting out of your comfort zone.

If someone learns to play the piano,

You don't expect after a 20-minute lesson that you'll be good at it.

Or if you're learning to play tennis,

It's supposed to be hard.

But if you stay there,

All your brain hears is it's hard.

So it will generate a bunch of excuses for you not to do it because it's so hard.

So I reframe them.

I'm like,

Forget that it's hard.

It's challenging.

And I can do this with practice.

I'll get better at it.

So I shift from being stuck to empowerment.

And I use these examples of learning a new sport,

Learning to knit.

It doesn't matter,

Learning to swim,

Sing.

Practice makes perfect.

And you don't see any Olympians,

Ballet dancers going,

Oh,

It's hard.

They just do it.

So it's not a matter of it's easy because if it was easy,

They wouldn't be sitting on the couch across from my chair,

Right?

So it doesn't matter if it's hard.

It's like,

It's supposed to be hard.

Now let's get moving.

You asked,

You said something in the notes before we got on that I did not even know what you were talking about as far as the word goes.

So I'm just going to straight up ask that question.

What do you mean when you say the external locus of control?

Yeah,

So not the insect.

There's internal and external locus of control.

So external locus of control is when you give your power away,

That nothing's in your control.

So a person who has an internal locus of control means they believe they have some sense of control over their life,

Their choices.

When you're externally driven,

You tend to blame it on circumstances and people or genetics,

Right?

So it's very disempowering.

So when I work with clients,

I try to shift it from external to internal locus of control.

So meaning happiness,

For example,

Is an inside job.

It's not when I lose weight,

I'll be happy.

When I meet a guy,

I'll be happy.

When I have the job,

I'll be happy.

Those are all external factors,

Right?

When I move,

I'll be happy.

Well,

It's the opposite.

You want to be happy from the inside and the rest will follow.

And we have so little control of external.

So it's more conducive to success and happiness if you switch your focus to the inside instead of external circumstances.

And it makes you more accountable in the process because when people are externally driven,

It's always someone else's fault.

Or the systems,

Right?

It's my country,

It's the law,

It's always something else.

Sorry,

Crystal,

I cut you off.

No,

It's totally fine.

I would say it really reminds me of the idea that life is something that happens for you,

Not to you.

Is that something that you kind of blend into that teaching as well?

Yeah,

And you create your own path,

Right?

You could have 10 peoples in the exact same circumstances and they all turn out differently.

So life is what you make it with what's handed to you and then you empower yourself.

And what about the people that,

Or this is a commonality as is what we're talking about right now,

Of not taking that control,

Of being passive,

Of blaming other people,

Of not being accountable to yourself,

Not being accountable for your own happiness or for the outcome,

For the control,

For the locus of control.

I don't know if I used that right.

So another common trait I see with people who are depressed is I'm thinking of couples here because it's a lot easier,

But it doesn't have to be couples.

So let's say I'm seeing the person who's depressed and they complain because their wife or their husband are taking charge and how dare they,

They didn't consult me.

But yet the partner kept asking them,

Can we do this?

And they're not doing it.

So they're being very passive.

Well,

At some point the other one will take charge because someone has to take charge.

So I found that when people are passive in a way they don't realize it,

But they're forcing other people to take control because they're not taking control.

And then they turn around and blame these people for being controlling or taking charge and not consulting them.

So I tell them if you're tired of your wife or your husband taking charge all the time,

Then step up,

Have the conversation and propose a solution.

Stop waiting passively for them to come up with a solution and empower yourself and you make the choices.

So how do you feel about codependency with depression in that case since we're talking about couples?

Well the thing with codependency goes in hand,

Hand in hand with being driven to the exterior meaning you adjust your behavior based on what people want as opposed to what you want.

So you become a people pleaser.

So what happens with people-blazing or saying yes,

Yes,

Yes when you don't want to say yes,

You turn around then you resent these people.

When you feel victimized by life and how come people are taking advantage of me when really it's your responsibility to set boundaries with people.

Say no when you mean no and don't expect them to read your mind and not ask you these things.

So when there's codependency,

People depend on others to make decisions for them.

So they give their power away.

They have no control over their choices and their life.

So years of the in the short term,

People don't really suffer.

But when I see people in their 40s and 50s,

They burn out from being codependent and they're angry and they're resentful or depressed because they put their lives into other people's hands and worried about what people are going to think,

People are going to judge them and their choices are based on what other people want.

Do you think some of this or something that you work on too is when you're creating these mindsets and breaking kind of codependency is like self-love?

Totally.

All the work that I do,

It all boils down to self-esteem.

So self-esteem and self-care,

They go hand in hand.

So I find that we end up rebuilding their self-esteem.

A lot of people are highly successful in many areas of their lives.

But when we boil down to it,

We're like,

Yeah,

Well,

You're not honoring yourself.

And we end up having to work on self-love and self-esteem and being true to themselves,

Basically.

So we ended up covering a lot of topics,

Some of which I think deserve their own episodes someday.

I think that there were a lot of these commonalities that we can expand fully into other episodes for sure,

Such as I think we can go deeper on lack mentality and stuff.

But this was a great overview on how to overcome depression and some of the commonalities that people see.

So before we go into our moment of gratitude,

Is there anything that you want to sum up or,

Crystal,

Any last question about depression that you want to hammer home before we go into our moment of gratitude to wrap things up?

I can't think of anything.

Gina?

Yeah.

So little note,

Side note here,

Depression is not just mindset.

It's also about certain habits.

But mindset is just one of the components to treat depression.

Sometimes I don't want to tell people,

If you just do this,

You'll be fine.

Maybe,

Maybe not.

But yes,

That's the only caveat.

I would say mindset is just one of the components to treat when we treat depression.

Awesome.

And now it is time as we end every episode with what are we grateful for,

Our moments of gratitude.

And Crystal,

Guests go first.

Yes.

Something that I'm grateful for today?

Absolutely.

I am grateful for my heater because it's really cold outside today.

I think it's like in the 30s or something.

So being warm and toasty in the winter is really nice.

Yes,

Totally.

Awesome.

I am today,

I am grateful for these vegan cookbooks that I got for Christmas.

And let me tell you why I'm thankful for them,

Why I'm grateful for them.

Because we did like a round robin of our tables during New Year's and stuff in the living room section of the house.

And I am currently on a table that is not as tall as I would usually want for recording this.

And I have all of these cookbooks and books that I was given for Christmas.

And they are making a lovely stand right now for my computer.

So I'm grateful for those.

So I'm grateful for those gifts,

Not for the reason that they were given,

But that I have them today.

But genuinely,

I am also very grateful for those gifts.

Yeah,

Nice.

Sheena?

My turn.

So here's what I'm grateful for.

I hadn't planned for this,

But I- She's going to give something super serious now and it's going to- Yes.

It's a conversation I had with a friend who doesn't live here in Canada.

And I feel for him or her a lot.

And I just want to say I realize how grateful I am,

Although imperfect,

That we have free healthcare here in Canada.

It's not perfect because I've been treated in the States.

Because some things are better there because people pay.

You don't have to wait as long.

But so grateful that when we have no money,

Which is a lot of people,

That we don't have to worry that we'll be treated for free.

And yeah,

It's a huge worry for people who don't have money,

The elderly,

Single moms.

I'm so grateful that I'm living here and have free healthcare.

Do you have two more bedrooms in your house?

Just in case- Just come stay for 10 years.

Just in case Crystal and I want to move up there.

And sponsor you guys.

Yeah.

All right.

Well,

Thank you guys very much.

Crystal,

Where can people find you if they want to find you as a guest plug first?

Well,

Yeah,

You can find me at morethanmimsy.

Com.

I've got a blog.

I will be launching a podcast there soon.

So keep an eye out.

Awesome.

And Gina,

If people want help with their depression or any of the other things that you can help them with,

Where can they find you?

So I have drgina.

Ca and gina madrigrano.

Com.

And I'd also like to plug a new group I started on Insight Timer called Living Simply with Dr.

Gina.

Awesome.

And there's also a fantastic parenting group called Parenting Wisdom that Dr.

Gina runs on Facebook.

So check all of that stuff out and we will see you next time.

Thank you very much.

Awesome.

Thanks.

Bye.

For more information or to book an appointment with Dr.

Gina,

Go to drmadrigrano.

Com or click the link in the description of this episode.

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“Comparison is the thief of joy.”
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