How To Give An Apology That Heals, Connects & Repairs

In this episode, Dr. Gina addresses how we can apologize in ways that go beyond an intellectual exercise to being an act of connection & repair between two or more people. How to give an authentic apology backed up by a heart-felt connection & actions. A plain “sorry” does not have a healing or reparative effect.

Transcript

Welcome to Living Simply,

A guide to mindful living and mindful parenting with your host,

Dr.

Gina.

Hey,

Everybody.

Welcome to Living Simply with Dr.

Gina.

I'm Ben Barbour.

I'm the producer of the show.

Here is Dr.

Gina Medragrano.

Hey,

Dr.

Gina.

How are you today?

I'm good,

Ben.

How are you doing?

I'm wonderful.

Thank you very much.

I just want to also bring on Crystal,

Crystal Tubbs,

One of our other producers for the show.

Hey,

Crystal.

Hey,

Everybody.

What are we talking about today,

Ladies?

Apologies.

I was going to say forgiveness.

I'm like,

No,

No,

It's not forgiveness.

What is it?

What's the word?

I got you.

I got you.

Thanks.

You have my back.

I do.

I like it.

I left you both out to dry.

For that,

I want to say I'm sorry,

Which leads us to today's topic.

Was that a good enough apology that I just did or not?

Let's talk about it.

If you have questions,

If you're watching this live,

If you're not watching this live,

If you're listening to this later on the podcast or on Insight Timer,

I just want to let you know that you can watch it live every Monday at 6 p.

M.

On Dr.

Gina's Facebook page as well as many other locations.

So check that out at her YouTube page as well.

But if you have questions right now because you are watching it live about the topic or off topic,

Put them in the comments and we'll ask Dr.

Gina.

So apologies.

Talk about it.

Yeah.

So I thought it'd be interesting,

Especially in the context of parenting,

But it applies everywhere.

And I thought it'd be interesting to contrast a typical apology and one that is more healing and causes better repair between relationships rather than just,

Oh,

I'm sorry.

So the easy one is,

You know,

Something does something and you tell your child,

Go say you're sorry to your brother.

And OK,

I'm sorry.

And that basically has no impacts.

I thought today we could talk about what kind of apology does have an impact and is be imperative in relationships.

Yeah,

I mean,

I remember as a kid being forced to say,

I'm sorry,

I wasn't really sorry.

You just have to.

So it becomes just something that you say.

It's not like an act that you do,

Which I think is kind of what you're getting at is it's more of an act rather than,

You know,

Just something you say.

Yeah,

Because especially when we teach kids the same way we teach them to say please and thank you.

They're very young and apologizing,

Just the word apologize,

Say you're sorry is such an abstract concept that they're just repeating the words and they have no idea what it is.

And one way to teach them beyond words is first,

How do we apologize to our kids and how do we model it so that they do understand what is an apology?

And it's not just a series of words.

It's a series of actions.

Right.

And that is difficult sometimes to do.

So how do we model that and where is the line of sort of asking a child to apologize so that you're teaching them when it is appropriate and what that is and forcing them to apologize so that you're sort of making it become an act?

How do you find that line?

So first,

If we start with what it looks like,

The first thing you want to do,

So usually you apologize because you did you hurt someone's feelings.

So the first thing you want to do is validate their feelings,

Because most likely if you're apologizing,

You know how they feel.

So you'll say,

Let's use parent child.

Earlier on,

Mommy was very upset.

And when you didn't pick up your toys,

I started screaming at you.

You must have been so scared because mommy was screaming very loudly and I could see you were close to tears.

I'm so sorry that I scared you and mommy shouldn't have screamed at you.

Yes,

I was upset at you.

And I shouldn't have screamed.

So I know how you feel.

It really hurts.

My actions were wrong.

And mommy's going to try next time.

If I'm about to scream,

I'll walk away.

I'm going to really work at this because I don't like to hurt you this way.

And I knew it would hurt you and I did it anyways.

So I'm really sorry about that.

So when we say it that way,

It has a lot more impact than,

Oh,

I'm so sorry I screamed at you,

But you didn't pick up your toys.

Yeah,

I mean,

Absolutely.

If an adult,

Especially if an adult and that was a child came to me and did that,

That would be kind of mind blowing at that point.

I'm kind of curious.

I mean,

That's so different kind of from how we're taught to do it.

And I think there's a lot of humility that needs to go into an apology like that because you're really owning up to your own actions and you may not want to.

Do you have some tips maybe for getting in that space?

Yes.

So obviously,

As a parent or just human being,

If it's not parent child relationship,

You've got to one,

Be self-aware and like you said,

Have some humility,

Which means we're all human.

We make mistakes.

We lose control sometimes.

And it's to own up to our imperfections and have empathy for how our actions have an impact on other people.

So if we do that from the moment our children are tiny,

It becomes a way of being,

Of just owning up and taking personal responsibility for your behaviors.

You don't even need to label it apology.

It's no more different than living in a state of gratitude.

So if you model this behavior from the time they're little,

Then children with each other and even children with parents will do that.

They might not be as elaborate when they're three or four years old,

But they would certainly say it with their own language.

And I know it works because I've seen it with my daughter and the older she gets,

The more elaborate she will be.

Like if she's done something wrong,

She'll actually think about it.

And one time I'll keep her privacy.

But one time something did happen and I caught her.

She was crying and I was like,

What's wrong?

And she said,

You know,

I put myself in your shoes and I can't imagine how you were feeling.

You must feel this this way.

I'm so sorry I did this.

And I thought,

Wow,

That's amazing.

I felt bad.

She was crying and I hugged her and it meant away whatever anger I had or upset.

And it becomes organic versus apologize.

I never even told her you have to apologize to me because when you when you force it,

I think it's no longer an apology.

Empathy needs to come naturally.

So if you raise children and you apologize by using empathy and validation,

You are teaching that to your children.

So they will know because you will have raised them to be responsible about their behaviors,

To reflect and think before they act.

But kids can't do that if we don't do it.

Because it's a learned behavior.

Right,

Exactly.

How do we get better at doing it ourselves?

Like,

It's a nice conversation to talk about how to teach it to your children.

And that's wonderful.

But I'm 32 and I'm not the best at apologizing in general.

So how do we do that?

I do it a lot,

By the way.

Like,

I over apologize,

For sure.

Which probably makes it lose its meaning,

I guess.

Or I apologize and then I do something again anyway.

So,

You know,

Basically,

Like,

I've been known to do a lot of bad things around apologizing.

So how do you get better at that as an adult?

One,

It's self-awareness.

So what I would lead parents to if we talk in the parental context,

I would tell them really read Dr.

Shefali's work on conscious parenting.

It's all about going back to within ourselves,

Being present.

And part of it could be self-esteem.

It depends on the people.

Some people experience shame around apologizing.

Some of it could be how they grew up.

Some parents,

For them,

It's stooping down to a kid's level to apologize.

It means they lose their power.

It means they're wrong.

They have power issues around it.

Some people,

It's just self-esteem.

If I admit I'm wrong,

I'm a bad person.

So there are many different reasons people would apologize.

So what I would tell them,

Too,

Is if you look beyond the shame,

Let's say,

Or the power struggles around it,

Think of the relationship.

Will it damage the relationship?

Will it break trust?

And then do it even if it's uncomfortable.

And the more we do it,

Even if we're uncomfortable,

The easier it will get because we will benefit from the healing of a true apology.

And then we'll see it's worth it.

Can you apologize?

Go ahead.

Can you apologize?

What about apologize?

I'm so sorry,

Crystal.

I keep cutting you off.

Go ahead,

Crystal.

No,

No.

You go ahead,

Ben.

Now I'm curious about what your question is.

Can it be a problem to apologize too much?

Well,

You know,

There's the way where you apologize where you're always not you,

But a person.

Oh,

Sorry.

Sorry.

You someone bumps into you and you're like,

Sorry.

When it's like,

What are you sorry for?

You were bumped into.

So it's to self-reflect.

Why do I apologize a lot?

So it's again,

It's always going back to let's see,

Did I really do anything wrong?

If someone apologizes a lot and they're constantly hurting people,

Maybe the problem is not the apology is the behavior they have and they need to correct it.

Because part of apologizing is you feel bad you hurt someone.

So if you really feel bad,

You're going to work at not doing it again.

And then maybe you'll apologize for new things.

But if if let's say your parents or a partner that's always screaming and you keep saying,

I'm so sorry,

I'd scream at you.

I know it hurt you and you keep doing it.

The apology will have no power anymore because the behavior keeps happening.

So when you say you apologize a lot,

I would say depends on the context if you're willing to say more.

No.

Crystal,

You had a question.

Well,

I'm just I'm curious about you know,

I know we can't control their people or their actions,

But I can imagine,

You know,

Maybe if it is an adult saying something like this to another adult,

There can be maybe a lot of anger on the other side on the person receiving the apologies.

Because you're you're saying,

Well,

I was I wasn't thinking and I I knew what would happen if I said this to you.

Like,

Is there any way that we can kind of help?

Not mitigate it,

But I mean,

Apologies can maybe might repair the relationship.

But is there anything that we can do after that if they're still angry and upset?

Well,

You would have to understand the context.

So what level if there's a level of betrayal,

If example,

If you think of a high conflict marriage,

If there's a lot of lying and other behavior around it,

And therefore there's no more trust in the relationship,

Then the anger could be behind the anger could be pain and loss of trust.

So even I see it in couples who are trying to come back together where there's a huge breach of trust.

So even if the person apologizes a lot,

It's a matter of time and rebuilding that trust and the apology just by itself is not enough.

So I think,

Again,

It depends on the situation.

Some people also could just hold a grudge and can't let go.

So then you have to reevaluate that relationship.

What benefit does that person have for staying angry and does not forgive and does not move on?

Then this shows other issues that could be underneath all that.

Makes sense.

Ben?

I'm curious about,

Sorry,

I'm bringing up weird angles on this,

But what about when you weaponize an apology?

When you.

.

.

Sorry,

I keep talking.

I have allergies.

That's all right.

So I mean,

Like,

Sometimes you can.

.

.

Well,

Let's use kids,

I guess,

As the example,

Because I don't have a better one off the top of my head.

Like,

You can do something wrong on purpose.

Like you said earlier with your example of,

I did it and I knew it was going to hurt you and that was wrong.

So what happens when a kid or an adult or even you do something on purpose because you know you can apologize for it later?

And like,

I feel like that is something that a child would maybe want to get away with.

You know,

Like,

Okay,

Now I know the formula.

I do something bad.

I apologize.

She said it's okay.

That's a.

.

.

I mean,

Everybody does.

It's a form of manipulation that could be subconscious,

You know,

In a child or malicious in an adult or just completely unconscious,

You know,

Just absentmindedly.

Like,

This is.

.

.

This works.

So I can just say whatever I'm going to do because it's always fine because I just apologize and we move on.

Well,

What I've seen is if the whole.

.

.

Again,

You don't want to take the apology out of context.

If your whole relationship with your child is a strong and secure attachment and outside bad behavior,

There is validation and empathy and trust.

It will not be weaponized or used to manipulate because the child will not want to hurt the parent by manipulating.

It'll be a two-way street.

If the child weaponizes it,

You got to look back at yourself.

Do I weaponize other stuff because they're imitating me?

There's no bad kids.

There's bad behavior and usually they're bad behaviors.

They take it from us.

Other kids or people at school and as a parent,

If you start seeing it's being manipulated and it's a fake apology,

You'll see it.

And then it's about correcting the behavior.

So it's not,

Okay,

You can hit your sister if you apologize each time.

No,

You consequence the behavior so it doesn't get repeated.

So there's the apology but then there's the correction of behaviors.

There's discipline,

Setting rules of respect,

Ground rules of how we behave in the house where an apology on its own wouldn't survive.

And how do you do that in a situation with two adults?

Same thing.

You've been in relationships with people whether it's work,

Friends,

Partners.

You can tell when you're being manipulated and it's kind of fake.

And then if you feel it's as the recipient that it's being weaponized or used to minimize,

You get to set a boundary and go,

You know,

Enough.

Like your apology is worthless because you know you're hurting me and you keep hurting me and I won't stand for this.

So then it's up to you to set boundaries around that relationship.

And if you're the person with the worthless apology?

Well then it's the other person's responsibility to go,

Enough.

Is it?

Are you asking for a friend Ben?

No.

Is it the other person's responsibility to say enough or is it your responsibility to stop apologizing?

If the relationship matters to you,

You will because if the person's like,

I'm done with your fake apologies and you don't care,

You lose them,

Then you won't change.

But if you do care,

You'll go,

Oh,

Maybe I need to work on my stuff.

By the way,

These are all completely hypothetical.

I just have thought,

I don't know.

You're friends.

No,

No,

Literally I'm not talking about myself.

I'm just asking.

Christo,

Did you have a question like 30 minutes ago?

I'm so sorry.

It's okay.

You're fine.

I'm kind of curious.

You know,

We've all done things in our past that maybe we haven't apologized for yet.

You know,

How can we use this to maybe open up dialogues that might open up new wounds if we feel that there's something we need to apologize for?

Or open up old wounds?

Oh,

Yes.

You knew what I meant.

I did.

Sorry to correct you.

Look at why you want to do it.

So the value,

So if it's a relationship that matters to you,

It's never too late,

I think.

You obviously can't control if the person has held a grudge,

If they're going to forgive you.

You know,

When we apologize overall,

We can't control the outcome of it.

We hope for the best.

But if it will be healing for you to apologize to that person,

I know in the 12 steps they do it.

That's how they make amends.

And they find it very healing.

So evaluate if it's if you're willing to go there.

If the person who's the recipient is not open to it,

They will tell you.

They'll go,

I don't want to go there.

And you can explain,

I need to do this because I really hurt you and you need to.

I want you to hear this.

It's not about me.

I'm doing this because I hurt you.

And they might still say,

I don't want to hear it or OK,

I'll hear you out.

What if you owe someone an apology or they feel as if you owe them an apology,

But you are not in an honest place to apologize because you don't think that you did anything wrong?

Then you don't.

Interesting.

If you think you didn't do anything wrong,

You again,

It depends who you're talking to.

If they're open.

Yeah.

Yes.

So if it's someone close,

You can go,

Listen,

We're not on the same page,

But tell me more.

I'm willing to hear you out.

Why you think I should apologize?

Because right now,

Maybe I'm blindsided.

I really don't understand what I did wrong because sometimes it's possible we don't know.

And then when the person speaks,

We don't have to agree with them,

But we can validate them by saying,

OK,

If I were you,

I can see why you would see it this way.

And it must have really hurt when I said this,

But you need to know my intention was not to hurt you.

And these were my intentions.

And I can't control how you perceived it.

And that's all there is.

Like I've I've had a client misinterpret a very businesslike email of mine.

And I make them very short and sweet to minimize interpretation.

And that client threw me a huge email saying I was condescending and he felt like a child.

I did none of that.

And instead of being defensive,

I did what I told you,

Like my email was businesslike because there's too much room for interpretation.

I'm so sorry you felt infantilized.

It was not my intention.

I'd be willing that we discuss this in person,

Not over email.

So sometimes we did nothing wrong and people will go,

You owe me an apology.

And then it's open for discussion.

That's the case.

What if you're on the other side of that?

What if you want the apology from somebody and they're not budging?

Yeah,

Then you control that part of you.

Is it okay to ask for an apology?

I'll give you my personal opinion.

If I have to ask for it,

It won't be authentic.

Because a real apology,

The person understands what they did.

And they feel bad.

Just saying I'm sorry to me personally,

I'm not saying everybody should think that way,

To me it's worthless.

Is it a way to open up a dialogue though?

Yeah.

So if Gina,

I think that you did something horrible to me,

Not horrible,

Slightly bad,

If I think that you did something slightly bad to me and I think that you just think that it would be too awkward to apologize,

Right?

Because maybe you don't know if I'm open to the apology or you'd rather just move on from the conversation regardless.

If I say,

Hey,

You never apologized for that,

That would have been nice.

That gives you the opportunity to then either give a heartfelt apology because maybe you were open to it,

Right?

Or give a fake apology or tell me to,

You know.

But if you look underneath,

When you want,

Let's say it's with me,

What you really want is not an apology.

What you want me to see you and see that I hurt you.

If you move just beyond the word apology is,

So then you would act from that place.

Hey,

I want to talk to you.

The other day you said something and it really,

Really hurt me.

Can we talk about it versus,

Hey,

I want to talk to you and you need to apologize to me.

Basically,

You want to be seen,

Heard,

Understood.

And that's how you would open the conversation versus I want to talk to you because you need to apologize to me.

Right.

And what if two people hurt each other and only one person is willing to admit that only one person is apologizing in that situation?

How do you open up a dialogue in that?

Both with adults and kids.

Yeah,

I would say the same way is,

Listen,

Something's happening here and we need to talk about it.

Let's clear the air and let's understand what happened here and how we're both feeling about it.

I want to hear your side of it and I'd like to share my side of it and let's see where that goes.

So you don't have an agenda to control the situation.

You're open,

You're curious.

You go with compassion for each other without the agenda that you have to agree.

I can apologize to someone even if I don't think I hurt them,

But I can understand how it could have hurt them.

I'll give you an example.

Someone thought I was canceling plans with them,

But I didn't really cancel.

So it's like,

Listen,

I need to wiggle two things together and find a good time.

And this person right away assumed I was canceling plans and they were hurt and upset.

And we talked about it and I could understand why they were upset because I know them,

I know their history.

And I felt sorry,

Not condescending,

Sorry.

I felt bad that this person misinterpreted my actions and I didn't mind to open up about it.

It can still be authentic if it's coming from a place of empathy.

Yeah,

Exactly.

If you empathize and validate,

You don't have to agree.

It was a huge misunderstanding.

So obviously I technically disagreed because I didn't do what that person thought I did,

But I was still compassionate and understanding of their side of the story.

And what happened then,

The person stopped being defensive and opened up and said,

Yeah,

That woke up my wounds of abandonment and rejection.

And I didn't think I read.

It was a knee jerk reaction.

And then that person apologized.

So it was there was repair between the two because it was open communication.

That's very nice.

It is.

It's a nice story.

So that's it for this episode.

We need to move on to our moment of gratitude.

We like to Gina likes to end every episode by taking a moment to talk about what we're grateful for.

Crystal.

Absolutely.

I am so grateful I was able to spend some time up the mountains with my family this weekend.

Nice.

I'll go next.

That makes sense.

So I am grateful for.

All of the new meaningful friendships that I've made during this pandemic.

There's been a lot of them and there's been some really cool big ones that are really,

Really awesome.

And that none of them would have happened if if this horrible situation in the world hadn't happened.

And so I'm grateful for that,

For when,

You know,

Terrible things bring new opportunities.

And I'm grateful for all of the new friends that I've made.

That's great.

A bit of a mix of Crystal and you.

I'm grateful because one,

The borders between our two provinces,

Ontario and Quebec,

Opens.

And my cousin invited us to her cottage,

Which is in the forest,

And we went hiking and she surprised me and Beatrice by a socially distant birthday dinner.

So it was our first outing in three months with people we love.

And it was just amazing to be in nature and with them.

That's awesome.

I'm really glad for everybody's experiences.

I went for a walk the other day,

So we all got out of the house.

All right.

So,

Crystal,

Where can people find you?

You can find me at braveandboldwriter.

Com,

Helping companies move online,

Helping them do creative ventures.

I'm ready to help them.

All right.

Gina,

If people are looking for help with any of their mindfulness needs,

Meditation needs,

Parenting needs,

Anything coaching wise,

Where can they get a hold of you?

Well,

On my website,

There's the final link to the group Finding Peace in the Pandemic,

The online course.

But also stay tuned because I'm going to have a few parenting groups,

Meditation and women's group online.

And it's all on the same website.

Awesome.

All right,

Guys.

Thank you so much.

Always wonderful to see you guys.

And you can check out all of the older episodes of this show.

They are all on Inside Timer or on wherever you find podcasts,

Living Simply.

And you can check out the live videos every Monday night,

6 p.

M.

Eastern time on all of Dr.

Gina's Facebook and YouTube.

So thank you guys so much and we'll talk to you soon.

Thanks,

Ben.

Bye everybody.