Children And Anxiety

In this episode, Dr. Gina discusses different factors that contribute to a child’s anxiety: overprotection; helicopter/snowplow parenting; parental anxiety; too much exposure to screens. And the solutions: allow your kids to fail, don’t rescue them from difficult emotions but support them, be a soft place to land on, allow them to experience life’s challenges as it will build resiliency and self-esteem; they need to experience life first-hand; learn about the developmental stages of your child.

Transcript

Welcome to Living Simply,

A guide to mindful living and mindful parenting with your host,

Dr.

Gina.

Hi everybody,

Welcome to the show.

Hi Ben,

How are you doing?

I'm good,

How are you?

I'm pretty good.

It's nice and summery and warm here,

So I'm very,

Very happy.

Yeah,

It's very warm here as well.

I was actually late to recording because I was down at the beach and it was gorgeous.

Do you have a beach near you?

How landlocked are you in Canada?

I'm not sure.

Well,

I'm in Ottawa,

So it's more of a huge river.

So there's a few beaches along that river which are pretty nice,

So maybe a 10 minute drive from my house.

Oh nice,

About the same from the ocean for me.

But yeah,

Summer's going well.

I hope your summer is going well.

Yeah,

Going well swimming.

Except the AC that broke,

But now it's okay.

Yep,

Yep,

Hopefully that didn't give you too much anxiety.

Ah,

Which is today's topic.

Yeah,

So we're talking about anxiety today,

But specifically we're talking about childhood anxiety.

Which I think is something that's definitely growing.

Or is it growing?

You tell me.

It seems more prevalent today,

But I'm not sure if it's because we're noticing it more and we just can identify what anxiety is.

Or if there's reasons why it's more prevalent today than it used to be in years past.

I think in my opinion and other people's opinion it's worse than before.

Are we diagnosing it more?

Maybe.

But we've been pretty good at diagnosing anxiety for a while now,

So we do see an increased incidence in anxiety in children.

And I would say 95% of my practice with kids is anxiety.

So I don't know if I attract them more,

But I find there's a lot of anxiety in children's populations.

So that's why I thought talking about anxiety today might be a good topic.

Yeah,

For sure.

Why?

Why 95%?

What do you think if you,

You know,

I guess the question really before we even get to if it's worse than it was before is just why?

What are some of the reasons why these kids are becoming so anxious?

So there's a few reasons I find when I look at their history what contributes to kids anxiety.

One,

What you often see is one or both parents have anxiety.

So it's a lot of it is model behavior.

So if you look at anxious parents,

They have a tendency to overprotect their kids.

So we've heard the term helicopter parenting and lately I heard of a new one which is snowplow parenting.

We can tell about that after.

Okay.

I also know we've also noticed that screens,

Screens don't have a really good impact on children's attention and it's causing more stress in their little bodies and there are brain scans that are showing the impacts of screens on kids brains and their development.

And when we do screen fasts,

Regardless of the diagnosis,

We see kids doing better.

And if people are interested,

They can look at the work of Dr.

Dunkley,

Who's an American psychiatrist who specifically works with kids who are addicted to screens and she makes really good recommendations.

So we'll put that in the show notes.

But yeah,

So when you combine all these things,

You see a lot of anxiety in children.

If I can elaborate a little bit on the overprotective factor,

That would be great.

Yeah,

Which is hand in hand with helicopter and parents who have anxiety is and we were kind of touching that topic with the previous show with Glenn.

Kids as we see when we see kids who have tantrums are pretty intense when they experience emotions.

Parents who overprotect or have anxiety tend to try and rescue their kids too quickly when they experience difficult emotions,

Right?

So kids don't learn how to manage their emotions,

How to tolerate the distress and learn the coping skills because parents come to the rescue right away.

Because they have a little fight with their little friend,

Mom calls the other mom,

Hey,

Your kid did this or that,

Instead of teaching their kids to stand up for themselves and try to work it out first.

And then if parents have to step in,

They should but parents come to the rescue too quickly.

So we see that too in kids who can't tolerate hearing no.

So when we remove screens from kids know and then the kids freak out whether they're tiny elementary school or high school,

They have a fit.

Okay,

Here you go.

So parents come too quickly to the rescue.

So the kids think they don't know how to manage their emotions.

Because when they're little,

It feels pretty intense and we kind of forget that because we have 20,

30,

40,

50 years behind us,

Knowing that when I feel this way I'm not going to die.

I will survive this,

It will pass,

But when we're a kid we don't know it's going to pass.

So it's pretty distressing.

So instead of rescuing,

We have to teach parents how to teach their kids to manage their emotions.

So as far as the screen time thing goes,

How was the,

Because I remember right now when I was in high school and I had got my first personal computer at my home and we had,

It was in my room,

It was a computer in my room,

I had instant messenger for the first time.

It was the early days of the internet and I was able to talk to like eight of my friends at the same time.

And if like my mom would call me for dinner,

I would get angry at her that like I didn't want to leave my computer.

And was that,

Is that similar to like kids not wanting to come in from outside,

Like in,

Like what was,

So that was my generations of like,

You know,

The millennials who were like 13 in the year 2000.

Like that was sort of our experience of like just getting hooked on the internet or like video games and stuff.

What was it like,

Like was there,

Was there an equivalent to that for you?

Or I'm just wondering like as far as the,

Because when I was younger than that,

I remember playing outside,

Playing basketball outside and getting upset,

Having to be like having to leave to go to a chore or something.

Yeah,

So that's more about transitions,

Right?

We got to train kids.

That's a really good question because we got to train them to deal with transitions.

So let's,

Let's say if we just look at playing,

You're playing in the forest.

We'll put video games aside.

A kid's playing,

They're really immersed in it because kids are very mindful.

They're in the present moment.

And suddenly,

You know,

They're experiencing joy and suddenly we're like,

Okay,

Come here and play.

They haven't had time to prepare for that transition.

So it's a drastic change for them.

So giving them advance warning helps them,

You know,

Slowly transition from something super fun to maybe something that's not fun.

Like even if they're hungry,

While they're playing with their friends,

They don't care to go eat because they're so focused on play.

They're not focused on hunger,

And that they might be hungry later because they're present,

Right?

Yeah,

So that's separate from anxiety.

It's a bit more about transitioning.

But if we look at screen times,

Even adults,

But we'll stick to kids,

People lose track of time when they're on interactive screens.

So there's a thing about interactive screens versus passive watching like watching a movie.

So it's the interactive screens that's causing problems more because you know these games are designed to stimulate and get you hooked.

And when they've done brain scans from what I've read is kids are hooked on these games or screens have lesions in their brain similar to people who are addicted to cocaine and heroin because they get these dopamine surges in their brain.

And we're not meant to have so much all the time,

And we always need more and more and more to get the same burst of happy neurotransmitter,

Which is what the dopamine gives us.

So then the kids get hooked,

Right?

So when you're playing or you're being interactive on a screen,

Your executive functions are impacted.

So you lose track of time.

It's probably happened to you.

I know it's happened to me.

I don't spend hours on Facebook,

But when I do,

I'm like,

Okay,

I'll just spend five minutes post what I need to post.

If I get sidetracked,

Suddenly a half hour has gone by.

And it feels like five minutes.

So we lose track of time,

Right?

I'm completely addicted to my phone.

I'm for sure addicted to my phone and it bothers me.

And because of that reason,

I feel really,

I try to never,

As little as possible,

Put the phone in the hands of a four year old.

I have ABC mouse on my phone for Brayden.

So that at least it's a learning game.

There's a learning pathway and everything is like a puzzle and stuff,

But still we're all very conscious of it because we're addicted to our phones.

And even in the limited time that he has one of our devices,

He doesn't want to give it back at the end.

Yeah.

So even educational games on the phones are not good for their little brains because it's interactive.

But we could do a whole show on that.

I'm sure we will.

Yeah.

But the reason screens are also,

If we look aside from the addictive side of it,

The reason screens are not good for kids is it squashes creativity.

So kids don't learn if we think of anxiety to tolerate boredom and out of boredom,

You birth creativity.

They need to be bored to go,

OK,

Enough of this.

What can I do?

And they generate ideas on what to do next.

Whereas if you go to a screen right away,

They don't need to think.

So what happens,

I'll see a lot of parents complaining.

I have no time.

I have to entertain my kid all the time.

But I have to cook.

I have to do the laundry.

I have to do this.

I have to do that.

And it's even worse if you're a single parent because you don't you can't tell your partner,

Hey,

Watch the kids while I do this.

So I tell parents,

If you wouldn't put your kids in front of a screen,

A TV,

Even a two year old,

When they're bored,

They'll find something to do and entertain themselves.

But they don't need to develop that ability if you put a screen in their hands right away.

So they get really anxious.

They feel boredom.

They have no idea what to do.

And then they're in such an emotional state that the executive part of the brain,

So the smart brain,

Can't function properly.

And they can't think and be creative because they're too busy being anxious,

Distressed and freaking out because they don't have their screens in their hands and turning in circles,

Not knowing what to do.

So I tell parents,

Think back when you were kids,

What did you do when you were bored?

And they'd have fun with branches.

They'd make forts with sheets between two couch cushions.

They'd go outside,

Play with rocks,

They'd figure it out,

Because they would play into their imagination.

A rock became a person or a fort made with cushions and sheets became a castle.

So when kids,

That's the beauty of young children is everything happens in their imagination.

And we don't allow that to develop if we expose them too young to screens.

Can you explain to me snowplow parents?

Because I've been looking at this on my notes ever since you first said it and I really want to know what it is.

So what is a snowplow parent?

I just read quickly about it.

So I'm not an expert on it.

But what I understood was examples that were provided is,

Think of a snowplow that removes all obstacles for their kids.

Right?

So we're hearing more and more parents of 18,

20,

21 year olds calling university professors of their children,

How come you gave my kid a B instead of an A?

Parents of young adults calling young adults bosses.

So removing obstacles for their growing kids when these young adults and or late teenagers should do that on their own.

Yeah.

Right.

They need to learn how to speak to their professors and ask questions.

And except you got a B and not an A and there's a reason for it.

Right?

And you need to experience the pain of getting a B if you wanted an A because it's the pain that will push you to study better and make better choices.

I also think that there's some level of extra drama that your parent being a snowplow parent,

The way that you just described,

Would give you anxiety.

Like,

For example,

If my mom was to call my boss at 18,

I would be embarrassed,

Horrified,

Feel bad about myself that I couldn't do it.

Even if I was relieved that I didn't have to do it myself,

If I knew that that was what was happening,

There would be some level of shame that I would feel.

And I think that she probably tried to,

My mom would actually talk to ex girlfriends like,

Oh,

Hey,

How are you doing?

And I would get anxiety about that.

And that's the,

You know what I mean?

That like trying to like,

Oh,

What?

I thought,

You know,

She was so nice.

I just wanted to still talk to her or like talk to my bosses after I left that job.

Like,

Anything where your parent is overstepping in that way,

I think can really,

It would cause a lot of anxiety for me.

Yeah,

It could provoke anxiety,

Could provoke anger,

Resentment,

Anytime a parent crosses those boundaries,

Right?

Yeah.

So there are some parents who will do the snow plowing and they don't have their child's consent,

Obviously.

Right.

But there are those who,

They're just,

They were helicopter parents and become snow plowers.

So the kid grew up with that and might not experience the shame like you would or anger because they're like,

Mommy,

Go do this for me or daddy,

Go fight my battle for me.

Because that's what they learned.

That's the only kind of parenting they knew.

And in that case,

Having to deal with anything would be anxiety inducing.

Exactly.

And both ways,

Both ways you look at it,

If you're that way for your child,

It's not a good outcome.

Yeah,

Either way,

It's not a good outcome because in one instance,

It could be crossing boundaries you shouldn't cross.

And in the other,

You're enabling and feeding the anxiety and making it worse.

Yeah.

So the kid doesn't learn to fight their own battles,

Experience making mistakes,

Defeat,

Losing.

We see it now.

I don't know in the States how it is,

But now everyone gets a trophy,

Even the losers.

Yeah,

I actually,

I had a conversation on Wednesday about that with a friend of mine who,

Someone,

I was hosting trivia night and somebody talked about participation trophies.

And I thought those trophies,

As someone who played football and got a trophy at the banquet at the end of the year,

Everybody on your team got a little trophy.

I think I have one here somewhere.

It didn't mean anything to us.

Yeah.

Those trophies didn't,

The participation trophies for my generation at least,

For me personally,

There was no validation getting that participation trophy.

We knew some years we lost and we knew we lost and that we dealt with that and other years we won and the team got a big trophy.

But the little plastic trophy that we got that just was like,

Thanks for doing the thing.

Thanks for being here.

Never felt important at all.

The rest of your teammates applauding when your name was called was nice in that moment,

But we all,

In my circle at least,

Thought that those trophies were meaningless.

Yeah,

Well they lost their value.

Yeah,

There was no value to them.

So there was no value put on them from us that we got a trophy for that.

But I find it's an extension.

We've seen it in the schools and research is showing punishment and reward are useless in changing behavior in the sense it works in the short term,

But not in the long term.

So giving trophies or giving rewards for everything teaches extrinsic motivations to change.

Oh,

What do I get if I do this?

Make your bed,

I'll give you $2.

Then they don't learn to make their beds just because you're home.

You need to go to bed and we help each other in this house.

I clean the house,

You make the bed.

Daddy does this or mommy does that.

I don't need to pay you to make the bed.

Look how nice your room feels when everything's in order,

Which then develops intrinsic motivation to change their behaviors.

Yeah,

Yeah.

All right,

So we've talked a lot about helicopter parents,

No plow parents,

Screen time,

All of these reasons that are affecting why kids might be more anxious today than they have been in years past.

And I'm sure that there's a lot of other reasons that we could go into as far as just everything.

The world itself is a more anxious place now.

And I think that a lot of the reasons that you've said about kids have a lot of reasons for today.

I think that a lot of my anxiety is because I'm addicted to this phone.

And I think that that's true,

Absolutely.

Solutions.

Give me some solutions,

Gina.

So let's put aside the screens because that's such a big topic.

One solution to coping with anxiety is no different than coping with fear of dogs,

For example,

Is exposure.

So learning to let your kids experience sadness,

Frustration,

Defeat,

Disappointment,

And walk them through the emotions so they can experience that there's a distress.

They can develop tolerance to that distress,

Process it,

And it passes.

And it's the fact that it passes that it allows them to go,

Oh,

I did it,

And experience success that even if it was a difficult moment,

You went through it.

And you're okay.

You're safe.

And then that feeds their self-esteem,

Their confidence.

I can do this.

And I tell parents,

And even when I work with the little kids,

I use the example when they learn how to walk.

They were crawling first,

And when they started to walk,

They'd fall,

Bang their heads,

Fall on their little butts.

And what would they do?

They'd look,

Hmm,

They'd get fed up of falling.

They'd look at grown-ups,

And then they noticed the couch.

Oh,

What if I hang on to this thing while I walk?

So the pain forced them to generate a solution instead of you catching them all the time.

So they trial and error,

This works,

That doesn't work.

And same with the bike.

They tried their bike,

They had training wheels,

Wear their training wheels,

And then when they're ready,

We remove the training wheels,

They fall down,

Get scraped.

And I say,

Did you quit getting on your bike?

No.

What did you do?

I tried again.

What made you try again?

Because I wanted to ride a bike like all my friends.

So I get them beyond the pain of falling and looking further ahead and looking.

It's the carrot at the end that made you get back on your bike.

You didn't focus on the pain,

You focused on what getting on your bike would give you,

Which more time with your friends,

More independence from your parents.

So I tell them with the emotions,

It's the same thing.

It'll hurt,

Because no one argues with feeling happy or joy.

It'll hurt,

They'll experience it,

It'll pass,

And they'll be better for it.

And there's a whole process I work with parents how to work through this,

But it's experiencing the success of getting through it that will make them more confident and stronger,

And then squash the anxiety over time.

So it's about teaching them to experience life and being their safety net if they fall,

To catch them,

To teach them,

But not to do it for them,

Not rescue them.

Obviously,

If it's life threatening,

I'm not sure about that.

But emotions are not life threatening,

And it's adapting to their age of development,

So letting go.

So what we see often is parents let go more when they're little and suddenly they hover in their teenager's business when they should let go more.

So it's learning about your child's developmental stages and how to best support them and experience life,

The good,

The bad,

And the ugly.

That was amazing.

So this is great,

And I think that everything that was in this episode could be its own episode.

Like we talked about before,

Helicopter parents and helicopter slash snowplow parents could be their own episode,

Screen time could be their own episode.

But I want to talk for a second about how we end every episode with our gratitude,

Our moment of gratitude.

Before we do that,

You have an e-book that covers some of this stuff.

Yes,

I wrote a little e-book on,

It's called The Benefits of Giving Kids Chores.

And it goes beyond just the action of have your kid do this and that.

It talks about how it teaches them life skills,

It teaches them executive function skills,

It teaches them impulse control,

It builds their self-esteem.

So things as simple as chores given to your kids have multiple benefits.

So I invite everyone to go get a copy of it on my website.

That's awesome.

And we'll put a link in the show notes as well.

And I can't wait to read it.

I just heard about it today from you for the first time.

So I can't wait to read that and start putting that little kid to work.

He's gotten away scot-free for too many years.

Every time we go to the store,

Are you paying for this?

And I'm like,

Why did I bring you?

So,

Okay.

And it's your show,

You get to choose who do you want to go first for the moment of gratitude?

You go first.

Okay.

I'm going to actually go with something that goes off of the chores situation.

We have the two greatest landlords in the world,

I think.

We live in a house that I was telling you before is way too big and nice for us.

And it was bought as like a retirement plan for our landlords and they have to live somewhere else right now because of their jobs.

But they're just the nicest,

Most wonderful people.

And they really take care of us.

And we did our yearly walkthrough with them last week where they can just check out everything that's going on.

And the dishwasher has never worked.

We've always had a dishwasher that's just sat there and never worked whatsoever.

And she told us it didn't work when we moved in and that was fine.

And I do all of the dishes as like we all have our chores,

Like you just said,

And I do the dishes and it's been fine.

But last week when she walked through,

She was like,

How's the dishwasher?

And we were like,

It doesn't work.

And she was like,

What?

Oh my God.

So we have a new dishwasher.

We're getting a new dishwasher.

This week she ordered it.

The plumber came and took the old one out and stuff.

And it wasn't something we asked for.

It wasn't something we were expecting.

But they're very,

Very nice people.

And they love us and they really want to make sure that the house is as nice as it can be for us and for them eventually when they move in.

So I'm just really grateful for having amazing landlords and this cool dishwasher and putting the little kid to work unloading it and stuff.

Yeah.

So that's what I'm grateful for today.

That's awesome.

I'll say I'm super grateful for a childhood friend of mine.

Her name's Natalie.

She's always there for me.

And I can tell her anything.

And lately she's been a good ear for me.

So I want to thank her because it helps me so,

So much.

That's awesome.

All right.

So that's it.

Check out the e-book.

Check out all of that stuff.

We're going to have full show notes for all of this.

Thank you,

Gina.

Thank you.

Where can people find you?

DrMadrigRonald.

Com Awesome.

All right.

Thanks,

Guys.

Thank you.

For more information or to book an appointment with Dr.

Gina,

Go to DrMadrigRonald.

Com or click the link in the description of this episode.

Reviews

Love this topic! i think that more people should recognize how important children's feelings are. Thank you!❤️❤️