Better Boundaries With Vulnerable Narcissists

The vulnerable narcissist is far from grandiose, which may surprise you. A covert vulnerable narcissist is secretly angry, resentful, and feels entitled to guilt others into dependency and submission. If you know a covert narcissist, they may idealize you for the purpose of you becoming their constant source of narcissistic supply. In this episode, I help you learn to enforce boundaries with a covert narcissist.

Transcript

Welcome to the Breakdown to Breakthrough podcast.

My name is Lisa A.

Romano.

I am a life coach,

Bestselling author,

YouTube vlogger,

Meditation teacher,

And expert in the field of codependency and narcissistic abuse.

I am a believer in the power of an organized mind.

My aim is to help people learn what it means to live above the veil of consciousness rather than living a reactive life.

May your heart feel blessed,

Your mind feel expanded,

And your spirit find hope as you spend time with me here at the Breakdown to Breakthrough podcast.

Today we're going to be talking about some of the things that narcissists enjoy that healthy people don't.

So when we're talking about somebody who has high narcissistic traits,

We're talking about somebody who at their core has tremendous conflict.

We're talking about somebody who feels like they are just special.

They're addicted to admiration,

Right?

When you're addicted to admiration,

Then that means that you have an attachment.

That means that you're not free.

You need something from the 3D world or you need something from people in order to regulate yourself,

Which is a terrible state to be in because,

Like I said,

You're highly conflicted,

You can never be happy,

And peace is never going to be a part of your reality.

Sure,

If you're a narcissist,

You might feel more calm in one moment versus another moment,

But those moments of peace that you think that you are actually peaceful are moments in which you feel like you're in control of everything,

Right?

But what happens when a narcissist realizes or begins to understand that reality is clashing with the fantasy?

What happens?

They can't regulate themselves.

And so when we're talking about somebody who has high narcissistic traits,

We are talking about somebody who at their core is a pretty miserable person,

Although they'll never admit it.

Narcissists can't be vulnerable.

So they see your vulnerability,

They see your empathy as a weakness.

And so if you have a lot of empathy for a narcissist,

Especially a vulnerable narcissist who is telling you a sob story,

Then you must understand that they are not going to be able to empathize with you the way that you are empathizing with them.

The idea of showing up vulnerable and exposing their deepest wounds to you is something that almost feels life threatening,

Because once they expose themselves to you,

Then they don't have their shell on.

One of the reasons that a narcissist cannot say,

I am sorry for hurting you.

I know I messed up.

I know I was reactive.

I know that my ego got the best of me and you deserve better.

And I'm sorry that my actions hurt you.

The reason that a vulnerable narcissist or a grandiose narcissist can't do those things,

Can't apologize in a genuine,

Authentic way is because that means that they are giving you permission to see them as flawed,

To hold them accountable and to walk away.

As long as a narcissist manipulates the way you see them,

There is a chance that,

Well,

The chance is very likely that they stay in control of the situation.

And if you leave them,

They're going to split anyway.

They're going to say that there was something wrong with you or they made a mistake,

That you weren't this person that they thought you were.

You will be devalued and you will be discarded.

And this is done to protect the narcissist's fragile ego,

Their false self.

So when someone has high narcissistic traits,

They don't want to look at their own problems or their own flaws.

They can't.

And so they've created this fantasy within themselves that allows them to think that they're better than everybody else.

They are entitled to preferential treatment,

Right?

A grandiose narcissist will idealize you and will pick out someone in their experience that has something to offer them.

And so if you're being idealized by a narcissist,

You don't realize that it's not about you.

I recently heard a story about somebody who was ending a narcissistic relationship and the narcissist was hovering this person back.

And the victim of the narcissistic abuse says,

Why do you want me back?

And the narcissist says,

Because I love the way you make me feel.

There was no acknowledgement on the part of the narcissist or how they made the victim of narcissistic abuse feel.

So in conversation with this person who has high narcissistic traits,

It was revealed that the reason they wanted the victim back had everything to do with them.

Right?

So even the half-hearted apologies were,

You know,

It became blatantly obvious that the half-hearted apologies were all about how to secure the victim again so the victim can go back into this subordinate relationship and continue to feed the needs of this more narcissistic person.

So there was no acknowledgement about how the narcissist was callous,

How the narcissist was devalued the victim.

There was no acknowledgement of how that may have made,

Literally no acknowledgement of how it made the victim feel or how it possibly could have made the victim feel.

And it was really interesting to experience the victim actually observe the dynamic between himself and this other person and how he was able to identify,

Wow,

It's,

I don't exist in this world.

I exist as an extension of this person.

I'm supposed to make this person feel good about herself.

I am supposed to,

You know,

Make sure that all of this person's egoic needs are met.

There's really no conversation about how her actions have affected me at all.

And I find that that's very interesting.

It's not about,

You know,

Me.

It's just completely about her.

And so it can be difficult to be part of these situations when you're involved with a narcissist,

Because it's not always easy to spot.

And once you've been trauma bonded by a narcissist and you've been lumped bombed and your vulnerabilities have been exploited for the purpose of exploiting you later.

Right.

So what happens,

Right?

So classic narcissistic scenario,

You are idealized,

You were love bombed,

You were sucked in,

Your vulnerabilities are explored,

Explored,

Right?

Everything that you're saying is being filed.

Why?

It becomes part of a person with high narcissistic traits.

It becomes part of their arsenal.

You think that you're getting the vulnerable part of this person,

But you're really not.

You're getting the mask.

You're getting this smoke screen,

But you don't know it.

It can be very alluring to be involved with a narcissist.

That's very charming.

A narcissist that says,

Yeah,

Sure.

I want to meet your family.

Yeah,

Sure.

I want to meet your friends,

Right?

Yeah,

Sure.

I want to know everything there is to know about you.

But the narcissist is doing it with a hidden agenda.

They have to maintain objectivity.

They have to keep you out here.

You think that you're having a authentic relationship.

You think that you're sharing.

You think that you're bonding.

You're thinking that you're creating this energy that exists between the two of you.

That is what you believe is going to be a reciprocal relationship.

The narcissist will trauma bond you and threaten you with leaving you.

And so your abandonment trauma will get triggered.

You will be so afraid that this person who idealized you,

This person that you believed they were who they presented themselves to be,

Is going to leave you that you will lose yourself in the narcissistic abuse cycle.

You will not hold on to your own personal boundaries.

Your boundaries will be annihilated.

You will be gaslighted.

You will be accused of having a mental illness.

You will be accused of being crazy.

You will be accused of being over emotional.

Everything that you are not and everything that a narcissist is,

They will project onto you.

And you will find yourself wanting to understand how this person can feel this way.

And you can get lost in the loop of trying to get back to where you were with this person who was narcissistic.

And unfortunately,

It is unfortunate when you are dealing with someone who is a narcissist,

You know,

They don't present with fangs.

They don't present as alien like creatures.

They look like you.

They talk like you.

They live like you do.

They have jobs.

They have families.

And so it can be very difficult to spot.

And so I think it's really important that you are here and that you are learning about the nuances of narcissism and you are learning about the warning signs of narcissism.

And after working with a client for a little bit now,

I've developed a list for her.

And I'd like to share it with all of you that really helped hone in what is different between someone who is healthy or healthier than someone who is narcissistic and somebody who is self-absorbed,

Somebody who lives in a fantasy world,

Somebody who really does think that they're superior to other people,

Whether it's their charm,

Whether it's their intelligence,

Whatever their job,

Whatever it is they do,

They want to believe that they're better than you.

And they want you to believe that they're better than you.

And they want other people to believe that they are the best.

So there's this competition thing.

Although it'll be hidden,

That really is the agenda,

Is to be admired and to be adored and to be seen as the best.

And they really believe that they are.

It's very telling.

So somebody who has vulnerable narcissism is going to have traits along those lines where they look at you like,

Oh,

You could never understand how I feel.

And they will argue with you.

And so,

Again,

It gives you a clue into how difficult it is to have an authentic relationship with somebody with narcissism because they see themselves as so special and so unique.

And so in order to have an authentic relationship,

You really have to be able to bond with another person.

So this empathy component,

Understanding that you can trust that this other person,

Yes,

Understands how you feel and the ability to understand,

Yes,

How this other person feels.

My father,

In my opinion,

In my humble opinion,

I don't ever believed could empathize with how we felt.

And I think having empathy for us threatened his ability to stay feeling like that king,

Superior and entitled.

I think that if he ever empathized with us,

He might find himself feeling guilty.

And that's just,

And vulnerable and maybe even needing to say,

I'm sorry,

Which means that he would have to be able to stand there and possibly accept and tolerate our rejection of him,

Which is just not feasible in his mind.

That's just my opinion.

I'm not a psychiatrist.

I'm not diagnosing my dad based on my research and working with clients and what have you.

This is my estimation of my experience.

This is just my experience.

Now there are things that narcissists enjoy that healthy people don't.

Number one,

Narcissists enjoy watching you beg for approval.

So a healthy person is going to be very uncomfortable with someone begging for their approval.

It's not going to feel right in their skin.

It's going to feel forced and it's going to make them feel bad for the other person.

Like you don't need my approval,

Dude.

Like you're enough,

Right?

A healthy person is a healthy person is uncomfortable with somebody who is begging for approval,

Who feels less than them.

Right?

A healthy person wants you to feel equal.

A healthy person wants you to feel love for yourself.

Right?

A narcissist,

However,

Is going to enjoy watching someone squirm and beg for approval and validation.

The second thing,

Narcissists delight in other people's mental confusion.

A healthy person wants you to be clear.

A healthy person is interested in clearing the air.

A healthy person is going to want to make sure that you're on the same page.

A healthy person is going to want to meet you halfway.

An unhealthy person,

No.

An unhealthy person will enjoy gaslighting you.

They will enjoy blame shifting.

They will enjoy watching your mind go down a rabbit hole.

They will actually enjoy the fact that you're nervous around them,

That you're fumbling,

That you're dropping marks,

And you're dropping the knives and you're bumping into walls.

Right?

They actually enjoy it.

It gives them a sense of superiority over you.

Another thing,

A narcissist looks forward to exposing your deepest and darkest secrets.

What,

If you have ever loved a narcissist,

If you've had a narcissistic friendship,

What you'll notice in hindsight is that,

Wow,

I told her that thing and I told her that thing in confidence.

Maybe you did something that you're not proud of.

And by the way,

We've all done things we're not proud of.

Why?

Because we're all human and we all make mistakes.

A non-narcissistic person is going to hold themselves accountable.

They're going to use self-awareness to change that behavior.

So the pain that you experience from doing something that you feel guilty about helps you become a better person.

Right?

Now somebody who is narcissistic doesn't take accountability,

Feels entitled to exploit other people,

Will not go to that place of vulnerability and feel that I'm wrong.

So a vulnerable narcissist is going to persecute and avenge you,

Even a grandiose narcissist.

They're going to try to hurt you if you ever tickle their narcissistic injury.

Right?

There's going to be this sense of persecution.

They're going to come after you.

So that's also a sign.

A narcissistic person enjoys punishing other people.

A narcissist is not happy until they feel like they have exhausted all means necessary of hurting you.

A narcissist is not going to be happy or feel content or feel emotionally regulated until they're able to feel satisfied in persecuting you to a point where they feel like,

Ah,

Okay,

I got them.

A healthy person doesn't think in those terms.

A narcissist is going to take things that you've said to them and use them against you.

So,

You know,

You might be having a conversation,

You know,

In front of a group of friends and out of the blue,

A narcissistic friend exposes what you did years ago that you told her in secret and you're just stuck there like,

What?

You're not even embarrassed anymore over what you did,

But you're just shocked at the betrayal.

Right?

And the narcissist is really enjoys triangulating you.

A narcissist enjoys making you feel less than.

A narcissist enjoys putting you in your place.

A healthy person is going to take the things that you share with them and hold them near to their chest.

They're not going to hurt you.

Even if the relationship goes south,

A narcissist,

A healthy person is not going to expose your deepest secrets.

Sure.

If your friends ask them like,

Why did the relationship end?

They might share some details,

But I'm talking about these deepest,

Darkest secrets that happened in your life that you've shared with someone or they've shared with you.

A healthy person is not going to share them with other people.

There's just this line that a healthy person does not cross.

Even when an unhealthy person crosses that line.

So a narcissist extracts a sense of power from hurting you.

So a healthy person does not feel regulated by hurting you.

A healthy person feels uncomfortable when they said something,

Even if they've said it out of anger,

There's still this,

Oh,

I wish I didn't say that when you're dealing with the narcissist,

It's the opposite.

It's like,

Oh,

I'm glad I said it.

Oh,

Did you see her reaction?

Oh,

Did you see how he responded when I said that,

You know,

Or there's just this level of excitability almost like gratification that they were able to hurt you.

Right.

A healthy person does not feel good about hurting anyone.

There's no relief in hurting another person.

Now I'm not talking about the day to day,

Like you find yourself having a quick argument with someone and you felt the need to defend yourself.

I'm not talking about defending yourself in a conflict with someone that you need to defend yourself with.

That's your defending yourself.

I'm talking about the type of a personality trait in which someone actually enjoys and gets off on hurting another person.

That is different than defending yourself from someone or defending someone else.

I'm talking about the joy that people experience from watching another person cry,

From watching another person getting beat down so much emotionally that they fall apart,

That they can't speak,

That they can't defend themselves,

Or they run out of the room crying.

There are just certain people that enjoy that,

You know,

Crippling them,

Making them feel guilty.

They derive a certain pleasure from hurting other people's feelings.

And so that's something that narcissists enjoy that healthy people don't.

Narcissists are happiest when you're unhappy.

So a narcissist cannot,

In my humble opinion,

Experience joy.

So joy is non-attachment.

Joy is surrender.

Joy is acceptance.

Joy is I can't control everything and that's okay.

Joy is being not attached to an outcome,

Knowing that anything can happen at any point in time,

Knowing that some people will like you and some people won't.

You know,

There's joy in not being attached to outcomes.

Now,

Narcissists are happiest when you are unhappy.

So when you are joyful,

That is a very high-flying vibration.

And when you're up here,

A narcissist can't control you.

So a narcissist who's here energetically needs to bring you down here where they can control you.

And so one of the things that upsets a narcissist is when other people are happy,

When other people are successful,

When other people are,

You know,

Perhaps being exalted by a company for doing a great job.

A narcissist is going to have to knock you down a few pegs.

An unhealthy person is unhappy when you're happy.

A healthy person is very happy when you do well.

They celebrate your successes.

They are not jealous of you.

They might have,

You know,

A little twinge like,

Oh,

I wish that was me,

But they're not destroyed because you're happy.

They get over it quickly,

You know,

And even if they had this momentary,

You know,

Very natural,

Like envy and like,

Oh,

I wish that was me.

They resolve it quickly.

They even feel bad that he even had that momentary,

Like momentary,

That moment of envy.

There's this natural,

Oh,

I wish I didn't feel that way and I shouldn't feel that way.

And she's my friend and I want her to have everything and they resolve it quickly.

They grow from the experience,

Right?

So a happy person or a healthy person wants you to succeed.

And in terms of the law of attraction,

You know,

You cannot manifest in your experience what you don't want other people to experience because you have to,

In order to manifest joy,

You have to be happy if someone's joyful,

Even if you're not joyful.

So you can't just stay in joy and expect to attract joy.

That's just the law of attraction stuff,

Right?

So a healthy person is happy when other people are happy,

Right?

They can see other people as an autonomous human being.

One of the things that I always appreciated about my sister was this idea that regardless of how bad my sister's life was,

She was always happy if I was happy.

You know,

Even when she was in very unhappy circumstances,

My sister was the kind of person that always said,

I am so happy for you,

Lee.

I'm just so proud of you or whatever she,

I never felt like there was this envy or this jealousy from my sister.

And I can,

From my toes,

Tell you that I never experienced that from my sister,

Not even when my mother was,

You know,

Had chosen her as the golden child,

In my humble opinion.

There was never jealousy,

You know,

There for there.

And for that,

That's something that I'm really,

Really grateful for in my own life.

So you should know that when you're out and about and you are,

You know,

With people,

Oh,

A telltale sign of a narcissist,

Remember,

We're looking for patterns over time,

Is somebody that you notice is most happy when you're unhappy.

Somebody who is not happy for your joys and your successes.

Somebody who has to,

If you have a great time with your kids,

They're glaring at you,

Right from across the room.

It's that stare a narcissist gives you,

Like you're having too much fun,

It's making me uncomfortable and you're responsible for how uncomfortable I am.

And you better stop having fun.

And all of a sudden you tone yourself down and you stop having fun.

If you've been a victim of narcissistic abuse,

You know what I'm talking about.

I have had this experience around,

I could think about it like it was yesterday,

In the backyard of my friends,

With my friends,

Having a great time and look across the room or look across the backyard.

And I could see that the person that I was with who was a covert narcissist was unhappy that I was happy.

You know,

It was like,

Okay,

Kids,

We gotta go,

We gotta pack up,

So and so is unhappy,

We gotta go.

You know,

And then being,

Me being upset on the way home,

Right,

Allowing my,

This person to make me feel like I've done something wrong.

So that's a sign to look out for.

Narcissists feel empowered by gaslighting you until you no longer think without doubting your reality.

A healthy person doesn't want you to doubt your reality,

Dear one.

A healthy person wants you to feel confident.

They want you to feel self-assured.

They want you to feel empowered.

They want you to find your love.

They want you to find their light.

They see you as a separate,

Autonomous human being,

Right?

They know that if you're successful,

Maybe they can be successful too.

Now,

A narcissist is going to revel in gaslighting you to the point where you can't think straight.

Now,

A healthy person is going to be uncomfortable if you are someone who is unable to think straight,

Right?

They have empathy for you,

Right?

And they're empathizing with you.

And it makes them terribly uncomfortable to know that you're struggling emotionally,

To know that you're struggling with psychologically,

To know that you're struggling with trusting your feelings.

It's going to make a healthy person emotionally uncomfortable when someone is struggling with doubting their reality,

When they know that they should be trusting their instincts.

A narcissist,

On the other hand,

Feels more regulated when they were able to get someone to doubt their reality.

It goes back to their need to reinforce this idea that they are superior.

And that they have the right to exploit you.

And that they have the right to gaslight you and to triangulate you,

Right?

They must mentally and emotionally control you.

And they feel entitled to do it,

Right?

So a telltale sign of a narcissist is someone who feels entitled to rob you of your joy.

A healthy person wants you joyful.

A healthy person is never going to call you names.

A healthy person is never going to want to minimize your accomplishments.

No,

That's not what healthy people do.

So I hope that this talk about some of the things that narcissists enjoy versus what healthy people enjoy helps make you a little bit more clearer about some of the telltale signs of narcissism you need to be looking out for.

Namaste,

Dear one,

Until next time.

And please don't forget to think.

Bye for now.

Reviews

Thank you

Thank you

Eye opening and confusing- as if there is a spectrum to N and that we are all on it at times🙏💝 or is it more the toxic dance I’ve bonded and entangled with😣

Exceptional. Condensed in under 30 minutes and hit important traits!

This is life changing and really opened my eyes. Thank you.

Your insights are always kind and informative Lisa

Thank you!

I’m so thankful for you 🙌🏾🙏🏾

This resonated so deep Lisa. When I listen to your talks in the past, I listened thinking about the obvious grandiose narcissists in my life. But this talk came to me at a time when I am leaning into vulnerability. It is so EYE opening. Thank you for this gift of helping me realize I am a vulnerable narcissist. But so are others that I care deeply about. Through no fault of our own … I need to go much deeper with all of this. Namaste 🙏

Oh my...
Spot on. I always feel validated when i hear you. Thank you ❤

After being in a relationship with a covert narcissist for 27 years, this talk made my heart sing. It’s just such an amazing gift to realize that you’re not alone.

oh.my.god.yes. thank you thank you thank you!!!!

Thank you Lisa once again a wonderful reminder of who I am.I am enough. Amazing truth. I love the simplicity and how you explain this complicated disorder and help others to understand it’s not their fault. Enough enabling!

I love listening to you. I am married to a man who has a lot of emotional childhood trauma and has narcissistic behavior.
Your talks help me deal with his meltdowns, triggerpoints and moments where he is just out to get me for no particular reason.
But he knows that this is not normal behavior and he asks me for help to help him get out of these moments. I'm learning more how to disarm him thanks to you.
The old me would just shrivel up and go lock myself in a room feeling worrying for myself. But today I am a much stronger person and your talks help me immensely. Thank you so much for all that you do 💖