Interview: Miriam Schulman ~ How Life Can Change On A Dime!

Miriam talks about the revelation she had when she witnessed the Twin Towers fall. One of those buildings was the one she worked in, but she wasn't there that day. What happened then changed everything for her, and made her realize that she had to live out her dreams!

Transcript

Greetings,

Everyone,

And welcome back to the pod.

No matter where you are in the United States or the world,

I hope you're staying cool.

Unless,

Of course,

You're in the Southern Hemisphere,

And I suspect it's already cool enough for you down there.

But here in the States,

Especially in New Mexico,

It has been hot.

So that's why I bring up the temperature and summer.

And while there are a lot of things that I love about summer,

There are some that I could maybe do less of,

Like maybe 75 degrees,

80 degrees.

I figure some of you know what I'm talking about.

Well,

This time on the podcast,

I'm introducing you to Miriam Shulman.

And I have to say that this conversation with her was a needed reminder about what we value in our lives or maybe what we should value in our lives.

What we must value because we feel like we can't live without it.

And that's living an authentic life full of integrity and one that brings beauty to the world.

You'll hear more about what I'm talking about later on in the latter half of the podcast.

But right now,

I want to introduce you to Miriam.

And Miriam is kind of one of those people who does it all.

She's an artist.

She's an author.

She's a founder of the popular podcast called Inspiration Place Podcast,

Which is listened to by thousands of artists around the world.

But it was really her story about how she got into living her artistic life,

Living a life of integrity that really captured me.

And we talk about that.

That was one of her miracles later on in the episode.

But basically,

She left a very lucrative hedge fund job to focus full time on her art.

And,

You know,

I don't know many people who would do that.

Walk away from that kind of money to it's almost like jumping off a cliff and you don't know where you're going to land.

But Miriam did it.

And so truly,

She's an inspiration for all of us who are looking for a better and more fulfilling way to live just in general in this life.

Miriam's story and her art have been featured in Forbes,

The New York Times,

What Women Create,

Art of Man,

Professional Artist Magazine and Art Journaling Magazine.

And her art has also been featured on NBC's Parenthood and the Amazon series Hunters with Al Pacino.

I mean,

Basically,

If you're out in the world looking at anything creative or anything beautiful,

You know that Miriam's been there already.

And that's what I love about her.

She's funny.

We laugh a lot and she's honest.

And each of those attributes I give five stars for.

So here's my interview with the incredible Miriam Shulman.

What happened was I was on an extended maternity leave when 9-11 happened and I watched my building go down in flames and I took that as a sign from the universe not to go back.

But also the other story,

Which I talk about in the book,

Is I was at the World Trade Center in 1993 when it was bombed and everybody was still working at their desks.

How would you introduce yourself?

This has evolved over the years,

But I will go with my most current iteration of self and who I am on this planet today.

So,

Hi,

I'm Miriam Shulman and I help artists make a sustainable living from their creativity.

See,

That is actually really fascinating and it's so timely because I was at this museum in Santa Fe and in the back it was a special event.

They had a Tarot reader and so I was sitting,

You know,

I got my cards and she said,

Oh,

I mean,

I'm sensing she was also,

You know,

Somewhat psychic.

She's like,

I am sensing that you have a huge block around money.

And,

You know,

I was like,

I think I do.

I'm not sure.

But then I was producing my podcast for the next week and right in the middle of my interview with this guy I said,

I have a huge block around money.

And so I'm curious,

Is that the kind of work you do or is it more to kind of bring their creativity out into the world?

What does that look like?

All right.

Those are great questions.

So,

First of all,

Just so you and my listeners know,

I did make a living from my creativity for 20 years.

I wasn't always an artist and we can get to that miracle moment later or before the miracle moment.

What led me to leave Wall Street and pursue art.

But I have been making a living for over 20 years before I started coaching other artists.

And since I myself was making six figures with my art,

I was being asked by my friends how to do it,

How to do it better.

And I had created like these peer mastermind groups for myself because I wanted to be part of a mastermind with other artists.

But I found myself always being coaching my friends for free.

And then so that's why like in 2018,

I started my podcast,

The Inspiration Place.

And in 2019,

I started accepting paid clients.

And since then,

So now I've been coaching for about five years.

I've taken many artists over that six figure mark as well.

And that's what makes me so passionate about what I do,

Because I'm not just doing it for myself.

Now I'm doing it for other people.

But to answer your question,

Because you asked me,

Well,

How are you doing that?

It is definitely a combination of practical strategies and helping them get out of their own way.

Because if you don't believe it's going to work,

You just won't do it.

So it has to be both.

It goes hand in hand.

That absolutely makes sense.

But Color Me Intrigued,

This Wall Street piece.

You want to get to that sooner?

I'll come up with a different miracle,

By the way.

No,

No,

No,

No.

I'm sure there's plenty where that came from.

Intrigues,

Like when you were a kid,

Did you think,

I want to work on Wall Street?

Like,

How did that happen?

Oh,

God,

No.

Oh,

No,

No,

No,

No.

And by the way,

Is this a clean podcast?

Like,

Am I allowed to say whatever I want?

Yes,

You can say whatever you want.

I can say whatever the fuck I want or just whatever I want?

Okay.

All right.

So the way I start off my book,

Artpreneur,

Was really that moment when I was in the fourth grade and my teacher invited me to be the class artist.

Now,

I had no idea that I had any kind of talent and I probably didn't.

She just was like,

Glue these toothpicks on this pumpkin in the way I'm telling you to.

So I don't think there was any real talent involved.

But in that moment,

She told me I was an artist and I chose to believe her.

And so I saw myself as being talented simply because somebody told me it was true.

Now,

I always wanted to be an artist,

But I also was getting other stories that I was believing that I could never make a living that way.

So I did not become an artist.

I chose the practical route.

And I said,

Well,

If the whole point is not to do what you want and to make money,

Where are they making money?

Oh,

Wall Street.

So I went to Wall Street to make money.

I am over here just flabbergasted,

To be honest.

Okay.

So when you went to Wall Street,

What did you do there?

What was your job?

I was a computer programmer.

And basically,

If anyone listening has ever seen the movie The Big Short and they have the Asian nerds programming all this,

That's actually what I did.

That was my exact job,

Like what they were doing,

Like making these very complicated derivative models and programmed.

Wow.

You know,

I think a lot of people would think artists,

You know,

Is left-brained,

Being a computer programmer is right-brained.

But I think actually,

Probably computer programming has a lot of creativity that needs to happen.

Is that,

Would you say that's true?

Yeah,

I say,

And I had this exact conversation last night with somebody who is scientific,

Who was saying how she sees herself as an artist.

Because there is an art to science and there is a science to art.

And if you look at some of the greatest artists of all time,

Like Leonardo da Vinci,

He was both.

And it's not because he was special,

But I really do think that science is a lot of creative problem solving.

So if you have this belief that you can't do,

But again,

That's just the,

It's just a story that we've been told,

But I think science and math is very creative.

And I didn't have a problem intellectually with what I was doing on Wall Street,

But I'd reached a certain point where I didn't feel the purpose anymore.

What I so appreciate,

You know,

You referencing time and again so far in this interview is,

Is stories.

And the stories that our families can tell us about who we are,

Our friends can tell us about who we are,

Our greater community can tell us.

And you have to be really careful which stories you listen to.

But sometimes I think as a kid,

You don't even know you're taking on those stories.

No,

No,

You don't.

You.

Yeah.

I mean,

It's even,

Even at age 50,

I'm 56,

Like I'm still rewriting some of those family stories.

You know,

The stories that your,

Your family told you that,

Like who you are and who you're meant to be.

And it's OK for them to be wrong about you and to do something different than what they expected.

Yeah,

I had someone tell me once a woman who was a channeler,

OK,

Who I didn't believe in.

But then she told me all this stuff that I was like,

I don't even know how you know this stuff.

But she said to me,

You know,

Those stories that you're carrying from your family,

Your siblings,

You know,

A lot of them were not meant to harm you or keep you down.

It was to protect you.

But it's hard to tell sometimes which ones are.

It's also the work to get rid of them or divest yourself of those stories can be such hard work.

Such hard work.

And the most harmful stories are really the ones we tell ourselves.

So without even putting any blame on family systems and society and blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

But our brains have evolved for survival,

Not goal achievement.

So anytime we feel uncomfortable,

We're not consciously thinking the thought,

Oh,

It's dangerous to start a business or send an email out.

But we're thinking thoughts like I shouldn't charge that much.

I'm just starting out.

We're making up these stories,

But they don't feel like they feel like they're just the truth.

Like,

Oh,

No,

No,

No,

No.

I'm not making up stories.

I'm tapping into my intuition.

But the truth is,

The smarter you are and the more creative you are,

The better you are at coming up with these stories to convince yourself to play small because your brain wants to keep you safe.

It just wants to keep you alive.

That's what it's doing its job.

It's keeping you alive.

So we don't realize that these things and notice how I didn't say excuses.

And it's because they feel real to us when we feel uncomfortable.

Our brain will go be very creative and come up with stories that will keep us from taking the kinds of actions we need to do to reach our goals.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I'm listening to you and I'm thinking of all the different ways that's happened in my life.

And I'm sure for most of the people who listen to the podcast,

Too.

I mean,

Sometimes I make up excuses and I'm just like,

I want to lay in bed today.

Now,

I usually can't.

But there's a difference between excuses and what you're talking about.

Totally.

Because those are very aware of like it's been very rainy here in New York and very hot.

And I just come back.

I go to the gym in the morning and I come back and I make a joke to the doorman.

I'm like,

Can I just go back to bed now?

Now,

Like that,

I recognize as like,

Yeah,

That would be delightful and so much fun.

And so when I'm aware of it,

I'm able to get past it.

It's the ones you're not aware of that are the more insidious ones.

So I can't promote right now because there's so many people dying in Texas,

Which is true,

But it's also not true.

Like it is true that you can't.

It's safe for you to promote.

You're not going to be ousted from the tribe.

No one's going to come and kill you.

You're not going to get into trouble.

And those things are all running in the background of your nervous system is running in the background,

Trying to keep you safe.

So it will come up with very plausible reasons why you shouldn't do the thing you need to do today.

Yeah,

It's interesting.

I was just on threads a few weeks ago and someone I do not post.

I'm just waiting until I have something to say.

So far,

I don't.

But someone made this interesting post and said,

Hey,

I just got ganged up on for promoting my business.

Or was it a podcast or promoting something that they were bringing into the world that was beautiful?

And the person said,

I got just jumped all over by other people saying,

How dare you?

You're not paying attention to what's going on in the world.

You're spending your energy on you.

It's totally selfish.

And I've kind of struggled with that,

Too,

Because there are some catastrophic things happening in the world.

And,

You know,

Personally,

My podcast is meant to remind people that the world has the capacity to be beautiful,

That it can have our backs,

That we should have hope.

And,

You know,

So I've been struggling with that,

Too.

How do I quote unquote sell this idea when the world is so full of of strife?

But it sounds like you've already figured that out.

Well,

First of all,

Let me just offer I have I don't have everything figured out.

I'm you know,

I have not reached the Nirvana state and we all struggle with all these things.

So just like have compassion for that.

But one thing that I do is I am on a severe news diet.

My nervous system just cannot handle it anymore.

So I went on one form of diet after October 7th and even cut it down more after this last election.

And I am so blissfully oblivious now.

It is just so great.

But here's what I want to offer.

Your audience like our nervous systems just cannot handle world news.

It cannot.

We are meant to only process what is in our village.

So you are not being an unkind person because you have stopped what you're doing.

You know,

You haven't stopped what you're doing because there's somebody in a different state suffering.

Now,

If you want to be that kind,

Compassionate person and worry about what's happening in your town,

In your city,

Who can you help?

Is there an elderly person in your family?

Is there somebody in your church or house of worship or synagogue that you should be helping right now?

That's what I believe.

And it's like,

You know,

Not your circus,

Not your monkey.

And we're not meant to stop what we're doing because there's something else happening in the world.

Because my friends,

There is always something happening in the world.

Truly,

You know,

When I was a kid,

My parents were getting divorced and it was very acrimonious and really,

Really negative.

I mean,

The judge remarked that it was one of the worst he'd seen in a long time.

But you know what I did?

I fell into reading.

I mean,

I already loved to read,

But I became this voracious reader.

And I read and I read and it was my way of soothing myself.

And,

You know,

And I've realized just recently that as a kid,

Like,

For example,

A Wrinkle in Time,

As a kid,

I,

Yes,

Oh my God,

I know,

Right?

So,

You know what I want to tell you?

I emailed Susan Cooper to be on the show and she got back to me and she said,

I'm not really,

I don't really do podcasts anymore.

You know,

I'm getting older.

And so kudos to Susan Cooper for answering a fan.

But my little child self kind of became Meg in that book.

I had,

You know,

The journey through going through,

You know,

Traveling through the planets and fighting that big machine at the end helped me to feel like I'd won something.

Even though I was in the midst of my parents' divorce,

Everything seemed like it was falling apart.

I kind of became this character so that I could self-soothe and feel like I was winning at something versus just feeling like life was so uncertain and scary.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you.

One thousand percent.

So when the pandemic started,

I decided I was going to read through the Harry Potter books again.

Like I had read all of them as they,

You know,

As they had come out,

But to read all of them one through seven in order.

And I thought the pandemic would be over by the time I got to the seventh book.

And P.

S.

Like I got through them in June of 2020.

And I read them again.

So my therapist said this is actually common,

But most people don't read the books.

They just watch the movies as like over and over again.

And there's something very soothing.

One of the reasons that I read them was not just the escape like what you're talking about.

But I found during that time that I couldn't read fiction where I didn't know what was going to happen.

I needed the certainty of knowing what the ending was going to be.

So that's what I found very soothing of like reading a book that I had already read because I didn't have to be nervous while reading it.

I do that all the time.

You know,

My go to is to soothe is the Anne of Green Gables series.

Oh,

Really?

Yes,

It is so sweet.

And it's from another time before things were totally intense and controversial.

And,

You know,

There is conflict,

But it's relatively sweet conflict.

And it's such a good place for my heart to rest.

The other book that I always pull out is Winter's Tale by Mark Halperin.

Have you ever read that?

Oh,

My God.

They made an atrocious movie.

Such a bad movie.

But it takes place in New York,

Actually.

The book is an homage.

I'm writing this down.

Yeah.

The book is an homage to New York,

But New York at the turn of the last century.

And,

You know,

If you.

So Edith Ward in New York.

Yes.

Yes.

If you liked.

Yes.

And it is it was widely it's widely considered the best novel over the latter half of the 20th century.

Mark Halperin,

You said?

Yeah.

Mark Halperin,

H-E-L-P-R-I-N.

If you there it is just it's inexplicable.

It's so hard to explain,

But it is probably the most beautiful book I've ever read in my entire life.

It is.

Okay.

Yes,

I will.

I will add to your reading list if you haven't read this book yet.

Yes.

Circe by Madeline Miller.

Have you already read it?

I have.

It's amazing.

And Song of Achilles.

I haven't read that one.

Okay.

Circe was the one was my ench,

My gateway drug is my friend.

Shout out Jen Lehner,

Who also has a podcast.

She said,

Well,

You like Greek mythology and you like Harry Potter.

Therefore,

You would like Circe,

Which I adore.

To those who don't know,

It's like she's this very minor character in the Odyssey.

She's the witch.

But the whole book is her book.

So it's definitely a woman empowerment book.

Song of Achilles is by the same author and it was actually written before it.

And it's an absolute masterpiece.

Like,

I didn't know that,

Like,

It's a masterpiece and it's a love story.

It is so beautiful.

I just adored it.

So,

Yeah,

There we go.

I love that we're giving each other reading material.

Yay.

I know,

Like,

This isn't what your podcast is about,

Right?

I'm like looking at the thing.

Who cares what the podcast is about?

Who cares?

We need to talk about this,

Right?

Well,

I would love to ask you the second question,

Which is,

Did you grow up in a religious household?

And,

You know,

What did that look like?

And how has that maybe relationship changed over time to,

You know,

Source or energy or whatever you believe in?

Okay,

I love this question.

So my father passed away when I was five years old.

And my mother,

Who was a young widow,

She was 27 as a widow and was left with me at five and my younger sister,

Who was three.

And she used to take us with her to synagogue because she got a lot of comfort from prayer and religion.

I wouldn't say that we were religious because I did not go to Hebrew school.

I did not have a bat mitzvah,

Which is a traditional ceremony for Jewish girls.

I didn't have any of those things.

But I was deeply connected to the identity of being Jewish.

And last year,

Actually,

As an adult,

I did learn Hebrew and I did become a bat mitzvah as an adult at age 56.

Wow,

I didn't know that was an option.

Of course.

As an adult,

That is really cool.

Were you,

I mean,

And that you learned Hebrew,

Which,

First of all,

I just have to tell you that what I especially love about Hebrew is the alphabet because it is so artistic and beautiful.

It's almost like when you look at the letters,

They move.

They're so kinetic.

Would you agree,

The way they look?

Yeah,

The language is very spiritual.

Now that I've learned Hebrew,

So there's this prayer we say,

Bruch ata adonai,

Which means blessed are you God.

And when I was growing up,

I just knew that by rote.

And I thought,

As most people think,

That we're saying God is,

Praise God.

But that's actually not what it means.

What it means is God,

Which we believe is everything,

Is abundant.

And what we're actually saying is the universe or God or whatever you're putting into that.

And in traditional Judaism,

It's translated in the King James Bible and into English.

It's very,

Has that patriarchy with the he and the Lord and everything.

But really,

That traditional Hebrew,

It's a non-gendered word that means God is everything,

God is one,

God is the universe.

So when you're saying bruch ata adonai,

What you're really saying is the universe is abundant.

So when you learn what these actual words mean,

It becomes so much more spiritual.

So I'm really enjoying as an adult,

Having that spiritual connection now with my faith.

Wow.

Yeah,

That is,

It's very interesting.

I went to seminary and we did do some classes in how interpretations of words from the ancient Aramaic or whatever they were trying to,

Even from the pagan times,

Translations.

We put our imprint on it,

Our lens,

And we use words that are familiar and comfortable with us,

But that sometimes really constrict and limit the possible meaning or maybe the original meaning of that word.

And that can be really dangerous sometimes because people misunderstand what exactly is being said or suggested or even offered,

You could say,

In the text or the sculpture that they're translating from,

Whatever that is.

So I'm grateful to you for bringing that up,

That the understanding is actually way more expansive than what we're being taught.

Yeah.

That's so beautiful.

I wanted to ask you,

Was it challenging learning Hebrew?

Because,

I mean,

I don't think I could do it.

I didn't think I could do it either.

There was many opportunities when I was,

I raised my children very traditional and they both had their bar mitzvah and the bat mitzvah,

And there were many opportunities that I could have learned Hebrew in the past,

And I chose not to,

And I was busy,

And I always had a reason why I couldn't do it.

And I have a learning disability.

I didn't even do my language requirement when I was in college,

So there was that reason-excuse story I told myself,

As we've been discussing.

I didn't either,

But when October 7th happened,

And my son,

Who was at the time a soldier in the IDF,

And he was at Kibbutz B'Rei on October 7th,

And I was so frightened for him.

I was so frightened.

And the only thing that could get me through that time and the war was the belief that he's,

Well,

First of all,

He's okay in this moment,

So this is like my spiritual practice.

In this moment,

I'm okay,

He's okay.

And I compare that to being,

When the Jews were crossing the Red Sea,

Being on the sandbar,

And they were okay,

Even though there was the unknown ahead of them.

They didn't really know where they were going.

They had the Egyptians on their back,

And that was what I would visualize.

But what I also visualized was my son coming out,

Someday getting married,

And having children.

And I wanted to be able to speak to those imaginary Israeli grandchildren.

So that's when I decided I wanted to learn Hebrew,

In spite of all those reasons and stories I had.

So I went to my cantor,

And I said,

In January,

I said,

In December of this year,

So this was last year in 2024,

So it took me all of 2024,

I said,

I want to be able to chant from the Torah.

I didn't tell her that I didn't know Hebrew.

Carson,

I didn't even know the letters on the dreidel.

Like,

Seriously,

I really didn't.

And people look at me with,

I have a very traditional Jewish name,

Miriam,

And I live in the Upper West Side,

And I raise my kids in Skarzel,

And I have a son who lives in Israel,

And they think that I know Hebrew.

I did not.

I did not.

I did not know the letters on the dreidel.

So I memorized it,

But that was like the beginning of really learning how,

And now I can actually say to my son,

Who actually is married,

And we just welcomed a grandchild,

So he did make it through the war,

And I can now say,

Ani medaveret ivrid akshav,

Which means,

I speak Hebrew now.

Wow.

Oh,

My gosh.

I just really appreciate,

It's almost like you did this form of time travel,

Where you visualized meeting your grandchildren,

Knowing that if you imagined it or spoke it,

It would call it into being.

That is very powerful.

Yes.

And not worrying about disappointing myself if I was wrong,

Just like,

Just focus,

Because it wasn't helpful to focus on the negative of what could be.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

That is so powerful,

And also,

I think,

Speaks volumes to who you are in being able to see the possibility inherent in that situation,

But also in any situation.

But also,

You kind of co-creating with yourself and the energies out there of what you can visualize and what you could call into being.

I think that's incredible.

Also,

You seem like someone who has a lot of gratitude.

Would you agree with that?

Yes.

Yes,

I do.

It's something I work very hard on.

Yeah.

But it's also,

It's,

I mean,

I think I can see why you say gratitude,

But for me,

For my own spiritual practice,

The way I identify it is just always loving what is right now and not regretting or wishing things to be different.

So for example,

I already shared how my father died when I was five years old.

Well,

I can't wish that my father lived because if he had,

I would be a completely different person right now.

And to wish a different trajectory for my life is to reject myself.

So I have to love all the things that have made me who I am right now,

Just as I'm sure,

Perhaps you might have come to accept the fact that your parents are divorced.

Have you reached that point where you accept that or no,

Not yet?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

I absolutely,

It was when I was a kid,

I kind of,

It started in fourth grade.

It ended when I was in sixth grade.

And frankly,

I was like,

I can't wait for this to be over.

And for them to go their separate ways.

I was just very,

I'm like done and dusted.

We can now move on.

And I think that's partially just because,

There was just so,

I'm very sensitive and there was a lot of intensity in the house,

A lot of anger in general on both sides.

And so as a kid,

I think kids are naturally sensitive to that kind of thing.

And I just wanted to go to school and have fun and play soccer and be in the choir and have a kid's life.

But that kind of got hijacked because they're,

My parents were engaging or dealing with other things.

So when it was finally over,

I was like,

Thank God this is over.

I mean,

I was actually very grateful,

Which probably sounds strange,

But it was a huge relief for me.

Yeah.

So that's where I go that even when somebody dies,

People say things like they shouldn't have died.

Yeah.

And you're not wrong for wishing that,

But it just isn't helpful because they did.

So you can't,

You could be sad that they died,

But you need to accept that it probably was always going to end this way.

We just didn't know it,

Which actually circling back to our reading that we gave there.

So the Greek mythology,

Like it talks a lot about that fate and the more you try to fight the fate,

Like the more likely it is to come true,

Like the story of Oedipus.

But there's a lot of that inside those other books that we've talked about,

As well as the Harry Potter books too.

Like it has that whole thing,

The prophecy.

Am I spoiling this for any people who haven't read Harry Potter?

No,

I'm sure everybody has.

I think you'll be better now.

Well,

My editor for Arpreneur,

Like did not like all the Harry Potter references and I was like,

Who cares?

I don't,

You know,

It's like,

Well,

She was like,

Well,

What if they haven't read it?

It's like,

I don't know.

I haven't read,

I haven't watched Game of Thrones.

I put up with people's Game of Thrones references all the time.

Like,

It's fine.

It's fine with me if they don't understand everything in my book.

You know,

Like these references.

So yeah,

So the whole thing in Harry Potter.

So if you recall,

There was the prophecy that Harry Potter would,

Would whatever,

Rise up against Voldemort.

And that's why he went to kill the baby.

And that's why Harry was ultimately able to defeat Voldemort was because he had tried to do that.

So it's that whole kind of acceptance of life as it's going to unfold.

And maybe we don't understand everything,

But the acceptance of the way things are.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That's really beautiful.

First of all,

I say kudos to all the Harry Potter references in your book.

Brilliant,

Brilliant,

Brilliant.

I always love authors when they write nonfiction,

Whatever it looks like,

When they bring in,

At least to me,

Fun references to contemporary things that are going on,

Or even books that I love.

It just makes the reading so much more of a gift to me.

So I don't know what's wrong with your editor,

But I'm glad they made it in,

Your references to Harry Potter.

It was just one editor.

There's lots of editors who work on,

When it's a traditionally published book,

There's a developmental editor,

There's a copy editor,

And everybody has an opinion,

And some of the opinions contradict each other.

So yeah.

Well,

I also just want to say congratulations,

Because you've had so much success,

And I think I love it when people are successful.

It makes me happy.

So how did you get,

I don't know,

I don't know,

The bravery or the sass or the je ne sais quoi to put yourself out in the world with your book and your podcast?

Was it a compulsion?

Did you think,

I'm going to be brave and do this?

How did that happen?

Yeah.

So this is what I was saying,

Just to cycle back earlier,

To having somebody die when you're,

Having your father die when you're five years old.

I think Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in one of his books,

Of children who've had a parent die,

Or people who have survived wars,

Like near death or bombings and things like that,

Is sometimes people who have this experience where they almost died or something so horrible happened,

But they didn't die and they're okay.

It's much easier to put yourself out there because you experience what would probably like the worst possible thing.

So what could you possibly do now?

So like,

That's why sometimes I'll get a bad review and I'm like,

Oh,

That's the worst they got on me.

Like,

You know,

Like really?

That's what you came up with?

Oh,

You could do better than that.

So that is part of my makeup.

But also another part of it is I have ADHD.

So sometimes I do things impulsively that other people would never do.

And sometimes that ends very badly for me.

Very badly.

You know,

It's kind of like the little kid riding the bike.

Like I should not have done that.

And sometimes it ends up very well.

Like I put out a book,

Like,

As I didn't think it out,

I didn't think that through too well.

You know,

It's like,

So yeah,

Sometimes it ends well for me.

And sometimes it doesn't.

So the successes are the things that you see where it does end up very well.

But there are plenty of failures that go along with that putting myself in harm's way over and over again.

The only way you can succeed in life is if you're willing to put yourself in harm's way over and over again.

And if I could just put that in one statement for the listeners,

Successful people,

They're just willing to do things that unsuccessful people aren't.

We're willing to fail.

Wow.

I love that.

There should be a t-shirt that says I am willing to fail.

I think I would wear that.

It's a good reminder that you can always get back up,

Dust yourself off and try again.

Doing some other,

You know,

Utilizing some other avenue or some other idea or what have you.

You know,

And,

And successful people don't give up,

I suppose,

Which is also essential.

Well,

I'd love to ask you the main question of the podcast,

Because I feel like I'm going to have some questions for you.

I would love for you to share a story about something magical that's happened in your life.

Miraculous,

Something mysterious,

Something that you considered to have changed your life's trajectory.

Okay.

So,

You know,

There's so many things I can choose.

Like,

You know,

What was,

Is it the nine 11 story?

Is it this story,

But the,

The,

There's one story I haven't shared publicly that I just feel called to share.

And this happened when I was in the fourth grade.

So this is long after my own father died.

I was thinking about my father's father who I wasn't close to.

And I started to get very sad.

I was like,

Wow,

If,

You know,

If he,

What if he just died,

You know,

And I didn't have this relationship with him.

And the next day we got a phone call that he had had a heart attack and he had died in this freak accident.

Like he died at the wheel of his car.

And it was very impactful,

Probably in a negative way,

Not,

Not just because he died,

Because it wasn't that it was,

I was very frightened by the fact that I had this premonition.

And so that was something that the negative part is that I,

For many years,

I shut that down.

And now that I'm older,

I I'm opening that channel up more to,

And allow those types of things to come in.

Cause for,

For a long time,

I,

It was like,

As a little kid,

You kind of think you caused it in a backwards way,

You know,

But that's because I thought it was going to happen and happen.

So I had shut it down because it was scary to have access to those thoughts.

And now I allow.

That's amazing.

I think,

You know,

When things like that happen,

When we're kids,

We just don't have the language or the capacity to even comprehend.

I had a guest once that came on that had an experience a little bit similar to that.

And,

You know,

For many decades,

She carried kind of the guilt or the idea that she'd caused it,

That because she'd thought about it before she caused it.

And she had to reconcile that or had been recently reconciled when we had our conversation.

I'm curious now,

I am always intrigued being an artist myself.

And also growing up in a house where artist wasn't a legitimate kind of vocation.

You know,

I run,

I won some writing competitions when I was a kid.

My fifth grade teacher quote unquote,

Hired me to do some art for the classroom and everything,

But I'm always intrigued by,

You know,

I never followed up artist.

I didn't follow that up until I went to seminary and I did this 700 questionnaire thing.

And the guy came back and said,

Okay,

So you're first,

You're an artist.

And I was like,

What?

And that was when I was 45.

And I just thought I,

You know,

I have a lot of ideas,

But I never act on them.

But that result of being told who I was kind of opened the floodgates and gave me permission to be who I am.

It really changed everything,

But I'm,

I'm intrigued because I love these stories.

I love that you inhabit your artists kind of view of the world or,

Or kind of working with the muses,

Shall we say,

To bring gorgeousness into the world?

How did you switch from wall street to being an artist?

I have to know because I just can't even,

That is just so it's like,

I don't know.

I don't know what to call it.

It's just,

First of all,

I'm excited for you.

And I'm so happy for you that you did that because it feels like such an authentic expression and stepping into who you are with so much conviction.

And that is exciting whenever anybody can do that,

That's exciting.

But,

You know,

Based on my own kind of struggle denying myself for so long,

I kind of want to know how did you decide to take this path?

Okay.

So,

Um,

So many things about what you said.

So first of all,

Um,

In my book,

Artpreneur,

I do tell the story about being in the fourth grade,

But I also give the reader permission to choose to believe.

So to write your own permission slip,

To choose to believe who you are and tell that new story.

And then in the next chapter,

I talk about the golden handcuffs,

Which is like the wall street.

I went to wall street because I was told I couldn't make money as an artist.

And where are they going to make money?

Well,

I guess wall street.

Okay.

That's where they make money.

And what happened was I was on an extended maternity leave when 9-11 happened.

And I watched my building go down in flames.

And I took that as a sign from the universe not to go back.

But also the other story,

Which I talk about in the book,

As I was at the world trade center in 1993,

When the,

When it was bombed and everybody was still working at their desks,

Literally with looking out your window.

Cause we had,

You know,

It was a wall.

These,

These buildings are built with a wall of windows.

We could see the world trade center.

And this is 1993,

Not 9-11,

Where they had broken the windows.

Smoke was coming out of the towers.

There were helicopters circling the building.

How,

Why are they still working when right there,

They can see there's a terrorist attack happening.

So when 9-11 happened,

There was this delay between when the first tower was hit and the second tower was hit and they hadn't evacuated the nearby buildings,

Right?

They could have evacuated that second tower and they did not.

So I wasn't working at the world trade center in 9-11,

But I knew that if I had been,

That I was in that culture and I understood the culture that you work no matter what.

And I did not want to be a part of that anymore.

So that's when I made the decision.

I would not go back to wall street.

I would not go back to that world.

That was a sign from the universe.

I was not going to ignore.

I did not know how I was going to do it.

I didn't know what I was going to do.

I didn't even believe I was going to make a living as an artist at that time,

But I knew I wasn't going to go back to wall street.

So there was the first,

That was the first decision and I didn't know what to do.

So at first I was just painting on the side and I would took a job as applied instructor.

And when I was being taught how to sell personal training packages,

I was like,

Oh,

Wait a minute.

I can use these same strategies to sell my art.

So that's when I made the commitment to be an artist.

Wow.

Okay.

I mean,

And that's what,

That's what I teach in my book,

Artpreneur.

That's what I talk about on my podcast,

The inspiration place.

That's why I'm so passionate about helping artists have the skills and the mindset to do it because it's possible.

I'm not a unicorn.

I've had a lot of artists who,

Who have made sustainable living and I've helped many of them get past the six figure mark.

I love that you say you're not a unicorn.

Cause I kind of think you're a unicorn and I love it,

But there are reasons I'm a little more brave and maybe I've done things earlier than other people who I've helped coach,

But I didn't have the book and I didn't have my podcast.

Now you guys have that.

You have these tools that I put out in the world and you don't have to buy my book,

By the way,

You can get it from the library.

So it's not like I'm saying this so that people will buy a book.

Cause I make like 60 cents a book on my royalties.

It's not that much.

Get it from the library.

If you want to listen to my podcast,

It's free.

I want you to have this knowledge.

I want you to have these skills.

Well,

I think it's absolutely brilliant and makes so much sense that you were in this one job,

You know,

And you thought,

Oh,

Everything they're teaching here in personal training can absolutely be transferred to this other kind of vocation that many people seem to want to live into.

So that takes a really special person to see kind of the possibilities in that.

And I do think,

Don't you think artists kind of I don't know by their very nature see possibilities in things that other people might not see?

Absolutely.

There is this famous Degas quote that I'll kind of butcher a little bit,

But it goes something like this,

That our job is to see the world in ways that other people can't see.

That,

That really is our job in life,

Whether your art is writing or music or visual art or something else,

It's really to,

And the world needs our art,

Because what people want is the meaning and just like how a wrinkle in time gave you comfort and Harry Potter gave me comfort and these books are giving us comfort and we go to the movies and that gives us another form of comfort,

Whatever your medium is,

The world needs it.

Art matters.

Absolutely.

Even if there are bad things going on in the world,

Especially if there's bad things going on in the world,

The world needs what you do.

And even if you're not a visual creative artist,

I mean,

I know a lot of your audience is,

But if you're just a heart centered person who maybe you're a healer or maybe you're something else,

The world needs what you do.

Don't do them a disservice by hiding.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the world can use as much beauty as possible,

Frankly.

And as much beautiful souls as possible,

However it is that you're showing up.

So even if you are an accountant,

It's okay to talk about your services because you're an accountant that cares.

It's okay.

It's safe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I love that you bring in that again,

Right?

Cause everyone would assume an accountant is a right brain person,

But who knows?

The accountant could have a whole like secret persona that they're hiding where they write,

You know,

Fantasy romance or who knows?

I mean,

Utilizing both parts of their brain or all of themselves.

I think so many people go through their lives hiding,

Trying to hide maybe their true aspects,

Whether it's so that they don't offend family or friends or the greater world.

And I think what you're talking about is you're,

You're like putting out this call to action for everybody to live into their authentic selves and bring their authentic selves to the world.

That's right.

Beauty,

Bring their bravery,

Bring their convictions.

Embrace every part of yourself,

Embrace that inner weirdo and embrace it all.

It's everything that you were,

Are,

And could be.

It's all you right now.

The world needs it.

All right,

My loves.

That's a wrap on another episode of the podcast and my conversation with Miriam Shulman,

Who by the way,

Is a rock star and a gem and an all around fabulous gal.

I really enjoyed my conversation with her and what I loved the most was laughing with her and,

And of course talking books,

But you know,

Laughter and books,

You got me.

I'll be happy for days.

And so I really need to thank Miriam for agreeing to be on the show.

She is a big cheese in this world and she's creating so much beauty.

I just love that she's here and she's alive when I am,

So I can just look at her and be inspired.

I need to thank everyone who listens.

And of course I would so appreciate it.

If you would consider leaving a rating or writing a review,

Wherever you find the podcast,

You have no idea how much those ratings and reviews help us and help other people find the podcast.

Thank you for listening.

And here's my one request.

Be like Miriam.

I mean,

Take the leap.

I have a feeling that some of you knew what I was going to say.

Of course,

Take the leap.

I mean,

Miriam had no idea what was going to happen when she decided to step away from this job that made her oodles of money,

But she had faith and she had tenacity and she had the universe's blessing.

But I'm pretty sure she worked very,

Very hard to get herself out there to get her art scene,

To make people notice that she was in the room.

So be brave,

My lovelies.

Jump off the cliff and then be brave after that and go into rooms or spaces that might terrify you.

Be brave and put yourself out there.

Put what you want to create out there because I know that you can do it.

I know you can do it.

I have faith in you and I believe in you.

And I just know that there are so many people out here waiting for the kind of beauty that you are absolutely going to bring.