Episode One-Hundred: The Interview-Kirsten

Yes, I am the guest of Episode 100! I share multiple miracles in this big one-what a stranger said to me at my orientation, how a very strange event allowed me to give grace to another, and how getting in the sandbox together is going to be what saves us all!

Transcript

Welcome everyone to episode 100 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

Yes,

It's episode 100.

My voice is a little croaky,

A little froggy.

I'm getting over a cold,

But it's episode 100 and the first day of 2023.

I wanna thank everyone for being patient with me for the release of this episode.

I took some time to enjoy myself,

To travel,

To take a break,

And then I got a cold,

So now I'm healing from that.

I wanna thank everyone who's listened to the episodes before this.

This podcast has been a labor of love,

And not only have I made many new friends along the way,

But this podcast has really been food for my soul.

So in the end,

It's really a selfish effort.

I'm just glad and grateful that it resonates with so many other people.

This podcast came about because I had a few friends say,

Hey,

Who are you gonna interview for episode 100?

And of course,

I had no idea.

And then several of them said,

You,

You should be the guest.

And after hemming and hawing for several months,

Because I'm so averse to putting myself out there,

I decided,

Yes,

Why not?

It seemed like a natural evolution so that my listeners who've been following so faithfully can get to know me just a little bit better.

My very good friend,

Steve,

Agreed to interview me,

And we had a lively and really fun conversation.

So I hope that you enjoy it.

We certainly had such a great time together doing this,

And I hope that this interview conveys that.

I need to thank the creators for the music used in this episode first,

Frank Schroeder,

Winnie the Moog,

Alexander Nakarada,

Raphael Crux,

Edie Key20,

And Sasha End.

I'd also like to ask a favor,

Since this is episode 100,

And if you like the podcast,

Please,

Please,

Please,

As a gift to me,

Consider leaving a rating or writing a review wherever you listen to the podcast.

It would mean so very much to me.

And of course,

I'm gonna get back on a regular schedule and each Saturday or Sunday release a new episode from now on,

But I have so many more dynamic guests and so many more interesting and really enchanting stories to tell.

So without further ado,

Here's my episode,

Episode 100 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

Because the weather was so terrible,

A lot of the hostels and abrugiers were just closing down.

So one night I actually slept in the French forest because I brought my tent,

My thermarest,

I brought my rain fly.

People felt my pack and they're like,

Did you bring rocks from Oregon?

Because everybody's packs are supposed to be super light.

Mine was like 40 pounds.

It was so heavy.

Cause I was like,

I feel like something's gonna happen.

And one night,

No one,

There was nowhere to stay.

So I climbed back in the French forest and slept in the forest.

And so,

And it was scary.

It was so scary.

In the middle of the night,

It sounded,

I mean,

I woke up and there was someone or something walked past my tent.

This is very strange.

It was definitely,

You know,

Cause you can tell what an animal sounds like.

This was not an animal.

But I just love the fact that you really devote,

You know,

That time that you give to that each episode to your guest.

And so today I want this to be your time to talk because you don't say very much.

And the stuff that you do say,

You kind of leave us little tidbits.

And I'm like,

Ooh,

I want to know more.

You know,

Like that was an interesting story.

I know she has more.

We never hear your stories.

We hear your guests,

Which is great because like that's the point of your show is to give people a spotlight for a minute to tell their story and their experiences and their beliefs.

And,

But I know you certainly have some of your own and I am very excited to hear about it.

Thank you.

That's really,

Thank you.

You know,

When I initially started the podcast,

First of all,

I hate being up in front of people.

I hate people hearing my voice.

I hate just all of it.

So when I had my growth edge in seminary was to give sermons,

I was like,

I'm going to throw up and die because I don't like being up in front of people.

The podcast is easier because,

You know,

It's just me and the guest.

From the very beginning,

I've certainly heard those podcasts where the host is always interjecting and always saying something and making it about them.

And that's boring for me.

I want to hear what the guest has to say.

And I said to someone that this podcast is going to be about the guest.

For very many episodes,

Really had myself out of it,

Out of it.

And then a couple of people said to me,

You should really talk a little bit more.

Like you should make it a little more engaging.

And I thought,

Really?

So it's,

You know,

Over these 100 episodes,

It's really been this huge growth curve for me,

This huge curve of what am I comfortable with,

This huge curve of using my voice with integrity and wisely and a huge curve of believing in myself because honestly,

I thought I can do this podcast because if I never talk,

Then I never have to face any blowback or feel anything.

And nobody,

I can stay anonymous,

But now I'm feeling more,

I guess,

Confident,

More secure,

More.

I just love my guests so much.

I mean,

I'm meeting the most intriguing,

Interesting people.

And what's really fascinating is that some of my dearest,

Dearest friends,

You know,

They know the most interesting and fabulous people.

There's this web of connection between all these individuals.

And,

You know,

Someone will say,

Hey,

I know like four people you should interview and they're all different and they're all interesting.

And not everybody says yes,

But a lot of them say yes.

I don't know exactly how we transition really into this interview or whatever,

But I do want to say that it is an honor to be the person who gets to ask you the questions that we,

The listener,

Have all been sitting here for 99 episodes saying,

Well,

I'd like to know more about what she said in episode 87.

Tell me about like that experience a little bit more.

Like,

Why did you do this?

Like,

We have questions.

So I hope that me,

Lonely old Steve here,

Will be the guy that can kind of dive in and at least dedicate this one episode to learning more about the host,

Because I think it's important to know who is asking the questions to everybody else and what your motivation is and what your curiosities are and what your experiences are,

Because obviously there's a reason you started this and we all want to know more.

Thank you.

I actually,

The one thing I was going to ask of you is,

Would you mind introducing yourself so that the audience knows who you are?

All right,

Kirsten,

Kirsten,

Kirsten.

It has been 15 years since we spent a summer together,

Waiting tables and basically just trudging our way through a Chicago summer,

Wanting to be anywhere but where we were.

So,

You know,

My name is Steve and you and I met 15 years ago at a restaurant that no longer exists in its location in Old Town in Chicago,

Illinois.

We were servers together and I bartended there as well.

And the place was busy when it was busy and it was dead when it was dead and we had to be there anyway.

So we got a lot of time to get to know each other.

And during that short time that we had together,

I really developed a true,

True love for you.

I just thought that what I saw this light inside of you and this curiosity and this energy that was intoxicating,

To be honest.

I mean,

I loved being around you.

When you weren't at work,

I really didn't wanna be there.

So,

You know,

We had that summer together and you went back to Portland and we've seen each other a couple of times since then.

So we have maintained our friendship over the past 15 years here and there,

But we've managed to stay a part of each other's lives.

Having this show has been a way for me to stay connected to you in this busy time,

Which is,

You know,

The height of our lives where we're at.

And so it's great to hear your voice each week.

I am honored to be a part of your show today to give everyone an opportunity to get to know who you are,

Because if there are people out there who have not had the pleasure of meeting you and knowing you,

I'm sure they would like to know a little bit more about the person who asks the question.

So that's who I am.

You're also,

I just want everyone to know that you are an intrepid and very brave and resolute runner of marathons.

Yes.

I frankly don't know how you do it.

I don't know how you do it.

Well,

You know,

Part of the reason I do it is why you do this.

When you're running 26.

2 miles,

And it's always longer than that,

By the way,

Because you're weaving and stuff.

And at the end,

It's like 27.

And most of the time I always run late.

So I'm like running to the start line.

So that's like another mile.

But anyway,

It gives you a lot of time to be with spirit,

With the universe,

And with your thoughts and you think things.

You know,

I always write the names of people I've lost on the back of my bib so that I can carry them with me,

Hoping that they're there with me.

My first marathon,

Which was here in Chicago,

Mile 25,

Which was like the day of my grandma's birth.

And she's been gone since I was 13,

But it was the hardest loss I think I've ever had to experience.

Like I told her,

I whispered to the sky,

When I hit mile 25,

I said,

I've carried you with me for the past 25 years.

I think it was 25 at that time.

I said,

I need you to carry me 1.

2 more miles.

And I cried for the last mile until I crossed the finish line.

And it was the best feeling in the entire world.

So that's why I do it.

It started off,

You know,

Exercise,

But it's very mental.

It's a way to,

I'm not super religious myself.

And I know this interview is not about me,

But I'm not super religious myself.

I respect people who are.

I don't really believe that anyone is wrong,

You know?

And I respect people's beliefs as long as they respect others.

But when you're running,

You know,

Sometimes that's,

It's a way to kind of break through and tap into the universe,

Whether that be God or energy or what have you.

And it's very spiritual.

It's uplifting.

And sometimes it's energetic.

It gives you a push when you really need one.

I do have to tell you one of my very,

Very,

Very favorite memories of that summer where we worked together in those polyester office.

I bet it's the same as mine.

I'm wondering if it's the same as mine because I think about it all the time.

So I'm excited to hear it.

Is when we got caught in that thunderstorm.

Yes.

To this day,

When we finally made it to the car and we were soaked head to toe,

I mean,

Just dripping wet.

And we were driving over to have some margaritas and some chips and salsa.

And the sun was starting to come out.

And it was the summer of 2007.

And the radio DJ said,

How about that storm?

And then played Rihanna's Umbrella.

And it was just so fitting.

And whenever I hear that song,

To this day,

To this day,

Kirsten,

I remember me and you being completely drenched and ready for a swirly.

Yes,

I have to say that there was just something so primal about that moment because we were on the streets of Chicago in Old Town and this insanely powerful storm just unleashed.

And it was lightning and thunder and pounding pouring rain.

And we were far away from the car.

And so we were hopscotching and dodging under people's doors.

But there was something so elemental about being out in that weather and laughing and probably praying we weren't gonna get hit by lightning.

But it was something,

As an adult,

You rarely get to do stuff like that.

You rarely find yourself in situations where everything's wild around you and you can be wild too.

And it's just one of my most precious memories of that summer.

It's one of my strongest memories.

For memories fade over time.

That's 15 years ago.

And it feels like last summer.

And it's something I think of all the time.

Like I said,

When I hear that song,

I think of you and it makes me smile.

You sent me a list of questions and I'm gonna ask them,

But I have one big question for you.

Tell us why you started this podcast.

That's such a good question.

So,

I graduated from seminary right as COVID hit.

The whole world was contracting,

Getting smaller.

The idea was that I would probably go into a church and work part-time or who knew what the idea was for graduation and being done with that.

But as I'm sure you imagine,

The whole world shut down.

And New Mexico shut down in March.

So,

March,

April,

May,

There was plenty of time for me to think about this.

But I was on social media all the time and people were just talking about how sad they were and how lonely and how isolated and depressed.

And everybody was so uncertain of the world.

And where did these ideas come from?

I just thought,

Because I would never think of doing a podcast,

Okay?

Because I had no idea what I was doing.

None,

None.

It was like this,

Literally this bolt from the blue,

This idea.

And I absolutely loved the show.

It's an offshoot of the Moth Radio Hour and it's called Spooked.

And basically people call in and they tell their stories of hauntings and ghosts.

And I just love that.

And I thought to myself,

I wonder if anybody has talked about this subject.

And so I did some research.

You know,

There's 2.

9 million podcasts now.

So I'm sure someone else is doing what I'm doing.

But at the time I couldn't find anything about miracles or magic or anything like that.

And I thought,

You know what?

These are the stories I wanna hear.

I wanna hear about this crazy stuff because I've certainly had crazy stuff happen in my life.

I can't be the only one.

And so bless their hearts,

I reached out to so many people from my cohort at school who are all so diverse and so interesting and different.

And I said,

Would you guys ever consider being a guest?

And believe me,

The podcast from the beginning to where it is now is totally different.

Thank goodness.

And I've grown up a little bit with it,

But I wanted to hear those stories.

And then it just turned out that those stories resonated with other people in ways that have been really beautiful and really profound and surprising.

I had no idea that it would be so good for so many people.

You know,

Recently you became ordained and I am sure that had something to do with hearing about people's experiences and their miracles and their hauntings and experiences with beyond this realm.

Tell us about your ordination.

Like I did not know that this was a path you were following.

And so I'm curious to know what led you here,

Like what church you're ordained or what is it?

And just give me the lowdown.

I'm sitting here on the edge of my seat.

You are not the only person who was like,

Wow,

I didn't see this for you.

I mean,

I just went to my homecoming,

You know,

Game at University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana a year and a half ago,

A year ago or so.

And all the girls from my sorority were like,

Huh,

That's,

That's not a lot of people.

That's kind of weird.

And I was like,

I know because in college I was crazy.

I was crazy.

And I mean,

My name was Rudd,

Okay?

So everybody on the entire campus knew me as Rudd because nobody could say my first name.

And I was the one who was doing the crazy stuff and falling off things and hurting myself.

So this,

Yeah,

Trajectory was shocking for a lot of people.

So to make a long story short,

You know,

I grew up overseas.

And so I was exposed to a lot.

Plus I traveled all over the world when I was a child.

I spent years in Guyana in South America,

Years in Pakistan.

And you know,

As a child,

You don't know any different.

You see people worship and do things in different ways.

And it's not a big deal,

You know?

Plus in Pakistan,

I went to school with kids from all over the world.

Every single one was different.

Everyone had a different religion,

Not a big deal.

And then I came back to the States and it was like so homogenous and so strange for me.

But I've always been enchanted by how humans create meaning.

So whether it's through folk tales,

Myth-making,

The Bible,

I mean,

Any religion,

Zoroastrianism,

What are the stories that we tell?

What are the stories we tell each other?

What are the stories we tell ourselves about how this world works and how we operate within it?

It is just fascinating to me how humans create meaning.

And so as a result of that,

I'm a voracious reader of fairy tales and myths and magics from all over the world,

From every time.

And so I started dating a gentleman who was a Catholic and he had a lot of super cool books that I really gravitated towards,

But especially about some saints,

Like Hildegard of Bingen and Teresa of Avila and all of these cool,

Interesting,

Mystical people.

And I've always been drawn to the mystical part of religions.

And he had been on track to become a Catholic priest.

And I thought,

Huh,

I wonder what seminary is like.

And then I realized that if I went to seminary,

That I would probably be able to study all sorts of cool stuff that I'm already super interested in,

Like humans and how they create meaning.

And so then I just randomly,

I mean,

I say random,

But I think it was totally designed.

I mean,

I just started researching seminaries,

Which were all over.

There was one in New York,

One in the South,

One on the West Coast,

One in Denver.

And for two months at my job in Portland,

Every single person I met,

Literally,

If I said,

Where are you from?

They'd say Denver.

And I was like,

That's weird.

But then I thought,

You know what?

I'm only gonna apply to the one in Denver.

And I actually already know I'm gonna get in because literally every person I'm meeting is from Denver.

And I did,

I didn't apply anywhere else and I got in.

But the universe was already telling me that I was headed to Denver anyway.

That's awesome.

I mean,

It fills in a lot of the blanks that I had when I saw that you had become ordained.

Was there anything that happened to you while you were in Denver that's worth noting or that showed you that you were on your right path or anything like that?

Oh my God,

Yes.

So I was there for orientation,

Okay?

And this is like a story where my friends say to me,

They're like,

Kirsten,

You never have to worry about what you're supposed to do in this life because literally you have the weirdest stuff happen to you.

And it's very clear that the universe is like,

We want you here and you're supposed to do this and this.

So I was outside orientation,

Okay?

And I'm under a tree and I'm reading and I glance up and there's a very strange looking woman who's walking down this path.

And I say to myself,

Don't make eye contact because she looks a little bit mentally ill or something's not right.

So I look back down and I look up and she's still walking down the path,

But then she turns around and she looks at me and I was like,

Ah,

I made eye contact.

And so she looks at me and it's,

She thinks it's looks like she's thinking to herself and then she makes up her mind about something.

And then she said,

Come here.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'm in seminary and I'm supposed to love everybody and be open and be so loving,

I'm gonna do this.

So I tried on over to her and she says,

I have to tell you some things.

And I was like,

Okay.

And she said,

First,

What you see in the mirror is not you.

It is not you.

Everything else that is you is inside you.

This outside shell is just,

It's not you.

So remember that.

And I was like,

Okay.

And then she said,

Second,

You're here to do your job.

You have something to do in this life and all these other people are telling you what they want you to do,

What their thoughts are about what you're doing.

They have all these ideas.

You do what you're supposed to do because you know what you're supposed to do.

And I was like,

Okay.

She said,

Third,

The train of forgiveness.

She said,

You are on this train platform waiting and the train is going around in a circle.

And she said,

You have to forgive yourself.

She said,

You are struggling with it.

You might not even know that you're supposed to do it,

But you can get on this train,

Get on it and start forgiving yourself for what you've been through and what you've gone through.

She said,

If you don't get on right now,

It'll keep coming back.

It'll keep coming back,

But you need to do it.

And then she said a few other things,

Which I can't remember right now.

And then at the end,

She said,

I want you to know that this runs in my family.

Like we're all brujas.

And she said,

My sister and mother live in South America and they practice black magic.

She said,

But I only practice white.

And she said,

I saw you sitting over there and she knew that I have to tell you these things.

And then she said,

I wanna tell you one more thing.

You're gonna see me one more time in this life and I'm gonna not talk to you and I'm not gonna say anything to you and I'm just gonna walk right past you.

And I was like,

Okay.

And then she walked away and I was like,

I don't know what just happened.

That was totally crazy.

It was interesting because I'd had a lot of conversations with my dad about seminary and his idea.

And we'd actually just gotten in a massive fight about it like a month before.

And he wanted me,

I had a joke answer for what I was gonna do for,

Why I was going to seminary.

And he got so livid and so angry about it.

And he was like,

No,

You're supposed to do this,

You're supposed to do this,

And you're supposed to do this.

And I thought to myself,

I mean,

She totally nailed everything that I was going through.

I mean,

She's new.

And I saw her a couple of days later,

She walked right past me and didn't talk to me and I've never seen her again.

So yes,

Something did happen weird in seminary,

But it also let me know that I was on the right path.

And that,

You know,

Sometimes we need these messages because I certainly,

You know,

Had been more than preoccupied with my exterior self,

Like what I look like,

Especially now that I'm getting older.

I mean,

It's very distressing to watch your face age and the body kind of fall apart and all this stuff.

So there she said again,

She's like,

Who you are is not what you see in the mirror.

It's,

I mean,

She completely addressed every single thing that I was going through at that time without even knowing me.

I mean,

It was so strange.

But I needed all those messages.

Who are you?

Tell us about you.

I wanna know,

I mean,

I know a bit about you.

I know where you're from.

I know all that good stuff,

But like,

Or at least where you're from here in Illinois,

But like you grew up overseas and you had all these experiences.

Obviously that shaped who you are as a human being to the point where,

You know,

It's put you on the path that you're on.

How did religion in your own household play into that?

If you can kind of break that into the question about who you are,

Because I'm sure they're,

They link together.

Well,

It was really interesting.

My formative years were in Pakistan.

And so every morning,

What,

How I was woken up was the call to prayer.

So the muezzins like calling out.

And even now,

If I hear that,

It just brings me back.

It's such a visceral response,

Like of my body.

I'm just bodily there.

It's kind of crazy.

But growing up overseas,

You know,

Certainly has shaped who I am in ways that are just profound.

And,

You know,

I just was talking to someone and I think I also started this podcast because I'm endlessly looking to recreate my childhood in Pakistan,

Which was children from all over the world,

Children of every religion getting together and just playing every day.

We just played.

We did not care what religion you were.

And I said,

I'm endlessly trying to recreate that sandbox,

The sandbox of my childhood where everyone belonged,

Everyone was accepted,

And we all were just there to have a good time.

And it haunts me.

I mean,

It is haunting to me.

So I'm very childlike in my approach to other people.

I mean,

I'm very much like present as,

This is so silly.

I'm like,

Do you want to play?

I mean,

I don't say that,

But I'm like,

Let's play.

Let's play together.

Like,

Let's have a good time.

Let's have fun.

How can we have fun together?

And it's such a driving force for me to,

I'm enchanted by other human beings because humans are so varied and interesting and complex.

And you never know what beautiful things lie inside them.

And so I'm kind of enchanted and I want to play with people and I believe in them and I want them to believe in them.

And it's just very childlike,

My approach.

Religion,

I grew up with the call to prayer.

There's a lot about Islam that is remarkably beautiful,

Including their art,

Their architecture,

That kind of stuff.

But when we got back to the States,

My mom after the divorce was like,

We should go to church.

So we joined this Presbyterian church,

Which I always,

I thought smelled weird.

And I didn't understand all the forced conviviality.

Like you have to go to this overnight thing with all these kids that you don't know and you have to do this and you have to do that.

And it was just,

I mean,

It wasn't my cup of tea.

And we only went for about a year and a half,

Two years.

Once we became members,

People kind of didn't stop talking to us,

But it definitely wasn't as friendly.

And frankly,

I would have rather slept in on a Sunday.

I just didn't understand as a child the forced component.

Like you have to go every Sunday,

You have to go to these overnighters,

You have to do this,

You have to do that.

And then later on,

I joined this kind of rock and roll youth group when I was like in Jinnerhine High School.

And that was really fun.

It was strange.

I mean,

It was fun for like the,

I guess hanging out with people,

Cause I was in Batavia,

But we'd hang out with kids from Geneva and St.

Charles as well.

So it's cool to meet kids from other places,

But it was also kind of boring.

And there is this one girl from St.

Charles who's like the queen bee and she was destructive and mean about other people.

And it got kind of lame after a while.

So I quit.

And then after that,

I was an atheist and I'm like,

God does not exist.

I hate you God,

Even though you don't exist.

And so imagine my surprise now that I believe something.

It's totally shocking.

That's my story.

So tell me,

Because I know this is one of my favorite parts of your show,

Of your podcast,

Is when somebody tells you stories of magic or miracles that you've witnessed or seen.

And I mean,

I already think you told us one by running into that lady in Denver.

I think that that's sort of magical and a bit of a miracle because,

Who knows how your experience there would have been shaped had you not had that validation that you were following the right path.

Are there any other stories that you can tell?

One of my favorites that I remember is when you were talking about the elderly couple in Portland that you used to take care of and how you like knew he was gonna pass.

And like,

That was one of the stories that grabbed me.

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

I know she's got more.

I need to hear things because I know it doesn't start and end right there.

Can you tell me anything else that might've happened?

So I'm gonna tell you a story that makes me kind of sick because it makes me so nervous and it's super distressing.

And I'm really putting myself out there,

Okay?

And just recently,

Just recently,

Because I do work with a shaman.

I do work with a Kiran Dutta who's a Western trained psychotherapist but comes from a long lineage.

She's eight years old of healers from Oaxaca.

So I do work with healers in Santa Fe that are a little outside,

Let's just say Western medicine.

So the shaman recently said something to me cause I was trying to explain to her this thing that's happened to me twice,

Which the first time it happened was so distressing and so horrific.

It was so horrible.

The second time it happened,

It was amazing.

So I'm gonna tell you about the second time first because it's a shorter story.

So I was in my restaurant in Portland working one day and this gentleman came in.

First thing,

It's like 6.

30 in the morning.

He's sitting at the end of the counter.

He won't talk to me and he's super grumpy and he's reading a book.

And I get feisty when people are being rude in the morning.

And I'm like,

Oh no,

Oh no,

You will talk to me.

You will talk to me.

So I walk up to him and I was like,

Oh,

What are you reading?

And he said,

I'm reading a book on math and logic.

And this is so hard to describe,

But it had happened to me before.

And so when it was happening to me,

I thought,

Oh my God,

That thing's happening to me again.

So twice in my life,

I've had this experience where I literally feel someone stepping into my body and I feel like my consciousness is put to the side and I'm observing and then something speaks through me.

And it's very uncomfortable and very strange.

But the second time I was like,

Okay,

That thing's happening again.

So he said,

I'm reading a book on math and logic.

And out of nowhere,

Because I didn't even know how this sentence ended,

I said,

Oh,

Do you think math is invented or discovered?

And he said,

His jaw dropped.

And he was like,

Well,

And then we had this really interesting,

Strange conversation.

And he was from Denver and he was working for a college.

The person who was supposed to be on the trip doing the recruitment down the West Coast got sick.

Two days before,

The person sitting at the counter had been sent.

He had been to Seattle and now he's in Portland.

He'd been sent at the last minute and there he was at my counter and we're having this conversation and this weird thing happens to me.

So he finishes his breakfast and he leaves and he comes back the next day and I see him walking in.

I'm like,

Oh my God,

Hi.

And he said,

I need to tell you something that is so disturbing.

I don't even know how to describe what happened.

He said,

But yesterday when you walked up to me and asked that question,

I had just finished five pages on whether math was invented or discovered.

And I said,

What?

He was like,

I'm not kidding.

I'm not kidding.

He's like,

I don't even know what happened yesterday,

But it was so strange.

And he said,

I think we're supposed to know each other.

And I said,

I agree.

And so we ended up having this really wonderful email,

Pen pal friendship going back and forth.

And it ended up being a really deep and beautiful friendship that was completely unexpected.

So that's the second time.

The first time,

Which is the story that I wanna tell you.

And I know that I sound crazy.

I'm fully aware of this.

So for my 40th birthday,

I had not been sleeping well.

My dad and sister flew out.

They were gonna meet my boyfriend for the first time.

I had been sleeping for like a couple weeks.

So we were in Bend,

Oregon and out at this breakfast place and I was beside myself.

I was a wreck.

I was like beyond a wreck.

I was just almost probably hysterical,

But keeping it all in,

Keeping it all in,

Just a lot of sorrow,

A lot of sadness,

A lot,

Just a lot.

And went outside to kind of try to cool my heels and like get it together.

Came back in,

Approached the table.

And this was the first time that this happened to me,

This compassionate possession.

I was standing there in front of everybody and I literally felt I was all of a sudden observing myself.

And I said something to my sister that was so out of character and horrific and mean and embarrassing that it destroyed the entire trip.

My boyfriend went back home.

My dad and sister left and flew home.

And my sister was like,

I'm never visiting you ever again.

And this is,

I am not telling you this story to absolve myself of what I said to my sister.

I am not saying that this didn't happen.

All I know is that I suddenly was not there and I was observing and these words came out of my mouth.

And I,

After they left,

I mean,

I spent months thinking that I was losing it and insane because I was like,

I don't know what happened to me.

I don't know why I said those things.

I am losing my mind and I might need to go into a mental hospital.

I called my mom.

I was like,

I don't know what's wrong with,

Something's wrong,

But I couldn't get,

She didn't really understand what I was saying.

I was just,

I mean,

I cried for months over it.

It was so humiliating and horrific.

So then I walked the Camino and I get to this gorgeous place and my knees are killing me.

So I think,

You know what?

I cannot walk over the mountains the next day.

I'm gonna take a,

So the people put me in a taxi,

Bundled me off to the next village where I could take a bus that would take me over the mountains.

So I'm literally sitting.

I mean,

I speak very little French.

In this little bus kiosk for 10 hours,

The bus never shows up.

I finally turn around and like translate part of it.

And it's like,

The bus runs every day except the day that I'm there.

And I'm like,

Good Lord.

So I call the people and I'm like,

I need to come back because I,

There's no bus.

And they're like,

Oh,

Come back.

So I took a taxi back and I meet Mara and she's there.

She's from the UK.

She,

You know,

Walks every year.

We ended up having this great conversation,

But she's kind of,

You know,

She's a little sour about life and a little down on things and kind of intense.

But we get along and we start walking together the next day and we walk several days.

Like we walk a week.

And finally we end up at this village in the middle of nowhere.

And there's one other pilgrim there.

And,

You know,

We're having a dinner together.

We're having a conversation.

And she says,

I mean,

Something I say,

You know,

Cause I was having like the time of my life in France.

I'd never been treated better by people.

I had a movie version of the Camino.

Like I've never been loved more or treated more like some sort of goddess in the world.

Then when I walked the Camino,

It was so weird.

It was,

Everyone else is like,

None of that stuff happened to me.

I'm like,

I don't know what's going on.

But I was just trying to tell her that I was having this experience and she,

She lost her shit.

And she started screaming at me and got up from the table.

Like the chair flew across the room.

It was so violent.

She was so angry.

She was sobbing and basically calling me a liar and that people in France are horrible and they're ugly people and all this stuff.

And then she runs out of the room.

The other pilgrim is like,

I'm going to go to my bedroom.

And I'm like,

Oh my God.

And I thought to myself,

I hate conflict.

I'm terrified.

I shut down.

I shut down.

I said,

But I can't leave her.

I cannot leave her.

I have to stay here and be here for her and be present.

So when she comes back in,

She doesn't have shame and humiliation and feel terrible about having this explosion.

So I sat there and I waited for her to come back which was like 20 minutes.

She comes in and she's still sobbing and she's saying,

I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

I don't know why this happened.

Like,

I just have all this going on.

I'm so sorry.

And please forgive me.

And then I said,

Oh my God,

Please.

It was like,

Believe me.

I said,

One time I said something so awful to my dad,

My sister and my partner at the time that it literally created a 50 mile diameter nuclear wasteland around where we were at.

And she said,

Really?

And I said,

Oh my God,

Yes,

Yes.

I mean,

What you said was nothing.

What I said like destroyed people's lives.

Like it ruined everything.

And so then we sat there and talked for two more hours,

Had this really deep,

Really insane conversation.

But at the end of it,

She 100% felt better.

And she didn't have shame and she didn't feel embarrassed or humiliated.

She just was like,

This happened.

And so we keep walking the Camino and we get to this town.

And one of the things that pilgrims want on the Camino and I wanted,

But I couldn't find anywhere.

I mean,

For months,

I couldn't find a coquilla,

Which is the sign of the pilgrim.

It's a shell.

And you put the shell on your pack.

So people know that you're walking the way,

You're walking the Camino.

And I felt like a faux pilgrim because I didn't have the coquilla.

And so she and I met for lunch in this town.

And she said,

I have something for you.

And I said,

Oh my gosh,

That's so nice.

You don't have to give me.

And she's like,

No,

At the abrige I'm staying at,

The gentleman has like a ton of these and she holds up a shell.

And she said,

So I drilled a hole in it and attach this rope so you can hang it from your backpack.

And I was like,

Oh my God,

That is so thoughtful.

And wow,

Thank you.

And then we had a great lunch and we had a great conversation and so then we met our separate ways and she went on to do her own walking.

And it was like a couple of days later,

I was walking through the countryside and I was just thinking about everything that had happened.

The yelling,

The shouting,

The fight,

Us,

Our conversation,

The coquilla,

The gift and all this stuff.

And I was like,

Oh my God,

Oh my God.

I mean,

The coquilla,

Her giving that to me was God or that energy saying,

You did it.

You did what we wanted.

Like you were able to be present for her.

Here's the official sign of the pilgrim.

You get it because you did it.

You were there for someone who is really struggling and having a challenge.

But at the same time,

I realized that I would not have been able to be present for her and have that conversation and be there for her if I wouldn't have already had that story to tell about that weird thing that happened with my sister,

Dad and partner in Bend,

Oregon.

And I thought to myself,

Because you wanna talk about suffering.

I suffered for months after that incident in Bend.

I mean,

I suffered not only thinking that I was going insane,

But that I had no one to talk to.

I was so alone and I didn't understand what was happening.

I cried and cried and cried.

And as I was walking after we had lunch and I realized this,

I thought,

Oh my God,

Now I understand at least in part why some suffering happens.

Like,

Yes,

I suffered,

But because I did that,

I was able to give her this connection,

This beautiful gift,

This conversation.

And I thought to myself,

I will suffer like that anytime if I can help someone else,

I will do it every time.

That's never happened to me again,

The compassionate possession,

But I was talking to the shaman about it.

And I told her the first story in the restaurant with math,

The mathematics story.

And she said,

Oh,

Compassionate possession.

Like it was nothing.

And I was like,

What?

And she's like,

Yeah,

Compassionate possession.

That happens all the time to people.

And I was like,

Okay,

I wish I would have known this like years ago,

Because I've totally thought I was insane this entire time.

When you said,

This is gonna sound crazy,

But then you said the shaman says it happens all the time.

And I'm sitting here thinking,

No,

This sounds like it happens in many,

Many different religions.

Just from the experience and the information that I've had,

You were able to grab back of your spirit and take that experience and hopefully help somebody and potentially save them.

And maybe,

You know,

You said she was sort of like Debbie Downer kind of grumpy.

Like maybe that changed her outlook on life.

I don't know if you kept in contact with her after this,

But,

You know,

Hopefully seeing the compassion that you showed her inspired her and gave her the tools that she needed and the insight that she needed to maybe approach each situation differently and be a little bit more grateful and appreciative and loving.

You know,

As you led into the story about,

Obviously it's France and the Camino.

Like I pieced this together,

But maybe for the listener,

Like what is the Camino?

I'm not familiar with it.

But it sounds like a pilgrimage journey.

Like,

Can you describe what that is?

Like how long it takes and who goes?

Okay,

So I would never have walked the Camino.

I'm like not the person to walk the Camino.

And some of the listeners,

I was interviewed on this podcast called Milo Talks,

And there's a whole,

She did a whole thing on,

Are there signs in the universe?

And so my story to her when I was interviewed was about how I got to walk the Camino,

Which was totally absurd and ridiculous because honestly,

I didn't even know what it was year before I walked it.

And the Camino is ancient,

Ancient,

Thousand year old plus pilgrimage route in Europe.

There are 13 different ways to get to Santiago.

The idea was that in the olden times that you would walk and walk and walk to get to Santiago to show God that you were dedicated.

It's almost like going to Mecca.

It was to demonstrate your faith,

How faithful you were.

And so there are routes,

There's like five routes through Spain.

You can,

There's three routes I believe through France.

You can walk from Italy.

There's an Italian coastal route.

There's a route from Switzerland.

There's the Northern route through France.

I mean,

You can walk so much or not.

And a lot of people,

They were like,

I have two weeks off this year.

I'm gonna walk two weeks to the Camino.

And then they come back the next year,

Start off where they left off.

I was lucky because I had a lot of time and money,

Which is a whole other crazy miracle story.

But I was able to enjoy the Camino in a way that was super generous and abundant.

I stayed in hostels only once or twice.

Mostly I stayed in,

I mean,

When you walk,

It's crazy.

I walked to this route that's known for its solitude and how hard it is.

And I got off the train in Arles,

Which I had to practice Arles.

Everybody's like Arles where Van Gogh painted.

I would,

They're like,

Where did you start?

And I'm like,

Arles.

And they're like,

I don't,

Where is that?

And they would lead me to a map and they'd be like,

Where?

And I'd point and they'd be like,

Oh,

Arles.

And I was like,

Oh my God.

So while I was walking the Camino,

I practiced that over and over.

I mean,

I've traveled.

I took a ship to Barcelona,

Spent a week in Barcelona,

Getting my sea legs,

And then took three trains where the poor conductor had to take me from train to train because I didn't speak French to get to Arles.

Otherwise I would have never gotten there.

So I get off and I go to the tourism place where the woman speaks English.

And she's like,

Oh,

What are you doing here?

And I was like,

I'm gonna walk the Camino.

And she's like,

Do you speak French?

And I was like,

No.

And she's like,

Then I don't think this is a very good idea.

And I was like,

What?

And she's like,

This is not a good idea.

I mean,

This route is so lonely and isolated.

And you go through these super small villages where no one will speak English.

And if you get hurt and then through the woods,

Like this is just a really,

This route is like not,

You know,

She's like,

I don't think this is good.

And I was like,

Look,

Lady,

I just like took three trains,

A ship,

I mean,

I'm not,

I'm supposed to be here.

So I'm doing this.

I did do it.

I,

It was,

I mean,

I,

As I said,

I just told someone I had a movie version of the Camino.

I mean,

I had,

I mean,

One night,

Because the weather was so terrible,

A lot of the hostels and abrugiers were just closing down.

So one night I actually slept in the French forest because I brought my tent,

My thermarest,

I brought my rain fly.

People felt my pack and they're like,

Did you bring rocks from Oregon?

Because everybody's packs are supposed to be super light.

Mine was like 40 pounds.

It was so heavy.

Cause I was like,

I feel like something's gonna happen.

And one night,

No one,

There was nowhere to stay.

So I climbed back in the French forest and slept in the forest.

And so,

And it was scary.

It was so scary.

In the middle of the night,

It sounded,

I mean,

I woke up and there was someone or something walked past my tent.

This is very strange.

It was definitely,

You know,

Cause you can tell what an animal sounds like.

This was not an animal.

Something walked past my tent and I woke up in the morning and you'll like this,

There was a white feather on my tent.

It was very interesting.

I took,

I have the picture.

There was a white feather.

You know,

This movie version of the Camino,

I went to St.

Gilhelm in the desert and stayed in this like 600 year old hotel.

And I was the only one at breakfast.

And the woman's like,

What are you doing?

That seemed to be everyone's question.

Cause I was a woman walking alone.

They're like,

What are you doing?

And I'm like,

I'm walking the Camino and they're like,

Alone?

She was like alone?

And I said,

Yeah.

I turned around like 10 minutes later and she's created this huge thing of food and wrapped it all up for me and gave it to me to put in my pack.

I was walking through this other small village and this totally gorgeous,

Beautiful,

Like 65 year old French woman,

Who was just like long gray hair,

Just impeccable,

Walked up to me and grabbed my hands and was like,

What are you doing?

And I was like,

I'm walking the Camino.

And she's like,

Put her hands on my face.

And was like,

Cupping my face and was like,

Bless you.

You know,

Not religiously,

But she's just like,

Bless you for doing this.

And we had this conversation and I would walk through villages and people would be hanging out at their windows and they're like,

Bonjourne.

You know,

All of this.

I mean,

I had this version of the Camino that was so not real.

Like when I try to tell people,

They're like,

That never happened to me.

And I'm like,

I don't know.

I don't know what is happening,

But the people in France,

They loved on me so hard.

I mean,

I've never been loved more in my life by complete strangers in a country that I'd never been to ever.

So that when I quit the Camino,

I was like,

I'm not gonna be loved like that anymore.

I was so sad.

I told someone earlier that that entire Camino,

It felt like I was so close to the soul of the world and every part of it was foreordained in my life.

And I was treated like a goddess the entire time.

And there's no explanation for it,

Except that,

I don't know,

I showed up and the universe was like,

We're gonna give you this beautiful gift.

I mean,

There's 100% something about walking through the wilds of France and it's raining,

You're exhausted.

I mean,

I was covered with more mud on that trip than you could ever imagine.

And you're just like,

Oh my God.

And you're walking and you're walking.

And then you get to this small village in the middle of nowhere.

And the church was always open.

And the church is like 600 to 700 years old.

And you basically open it and they all smell the same.

I mean,

I'm not Catholic,

But there's just something,

They're warm,

No one else is in there.

It's just always open.

And I just would sit there for a while and look at the beauty,

Because there were always stained glass windows and art.

And it's very special to be in the middle of nowhere,

Come upon a church,

Candles are lit inside.

You can get in out of the rain and it's just gorgeous.

It sounds like this whole experience on the Camino,

And especially when you're talking about the trip or the Catholic churches,

It sounds like a made for Hollywood movie.

And it's like under the Tuscan sun,

But like the Kirsten version.

Despite how people feel about religion,

I feel that at the bottom of it all,

The heart of it all,

The purpose of it all,

I mean,

Those churches,

They're built with love and they're built with purpose.

And you don't have to believe exactly what the people who built that church believe to feel it,

To be touched by it and to really appreciate it.

There are definitely these spaces in nature,

For sure I felt,

But human built churches,

Human built grottos where the energy is so intense and it just creates this kind of really beautiful feeling of being loved and held and seen.

It's almost like you can walk into the church and it's like,

Oh,

Here's where I'm recognized by the great force that moves this universe.

Here's where I can have a conversation with whatever moves the machinery in this world or in this universe.

It's really,

Really beautiful.

It was thinking about O'Brien's and how,

I mean,

I got here with two suitcases off of an airplane in May of that year and I got a job two days later there.

And then I met you and outside of my ex who I had come here for at the time,

I didn't know anybody.

And so it meant the world to me to find fast friends and people like you and Darcy and Ron and everybody was so nice.

And it was like,

I met you,

I felt this warm,

Inviting,

Curious,

Loving spirit.

And I was so sad when you left,

But I knew I would always see you again.

And even though when you come to town sometimes or you're going through or you're nearby,

We try a lot of the time unsuccessfully and I get it because it happens with me too.

But I know that even if I don't see you,

That you're thinking of me and I'm thinking of you and we'll make it happen again right now.

Like who knew we would do this?

This is the coolest thing.

It's just,

I've never had any doubt that you're gonna be one of these people in my life.

That's a constant,

Even though you're so far away.

And we see and hear so little of each other.

I mean,

It's important for me to hear your voice when I listen to these podcasts because it's a way to connect with you and know that you're okay and touch base with your energy and your spirit.

What do you want to give your listener?

Like what do you want them to gain from this podcast?

I like that question.

I mean,

The original intent was to remind people,

The people who were suffering through the pandemic,

That there's more going on in this world,

In this universe,

In this reality,

Than we can ever conceive of.

And just because we're limited by our senses in this life right now,

Just because we're limited to that doesn't mean that we can't look to other people,

Their experiences and their stories for hints and clues as to what's behind the curtain.

You know,

Oz and the great,

Oz the great magician and his curtain.

I mean,

Behind that curtain is so much more than we can conceivably imagine.

And I think if people understood that and like really took it in,

Really absorbed it,

Understood it as a truth,

It would make the things that are happening in their life,

You know,

The slights,

The hurts,

Whatever it is they're enduring,

Maybe a little more bearable.

Maybe they would feel a little bit more of the magic of the world and understand that they're moving through that magic every day and that that magic touches everybody and that it's beautiful.

I like that.

I'd like to end your episode and I don't know if you wanna do this,

But I'm gonna give it a go.

So I want to thank my guest today,

The host of this show,

Kirsten,

For sharing and opening up and making yourself vulnerable to a story that now that it's out there,

I don't think is weird at all.

It makes a lot of sense.

And I think that so many people in this world can say that they've had a feeling like that or feelings like that or experiences like that.

And actually in a lot of religious texts and scriptures,

Seems to happen all the time.

So thank you for opening yourself up,

Sharing who you are and letting the listener get to know you.

So I'll wrap this up with,

Be like Kirsten.

Be brave,

Be humble,

Be playful,

Get in the sandbox,

Be kind and generous,

Find love in everyday interactions and live like you live in a world before you learn hate.

Love will guide the way.

Thank you,

Kirsten,

You're the best.