Episode Ninety-Four: The Interview-Joe Freeman

Joe had no idea when he went to Vietnam just what life had in store for him. In this longer episode Joe tells about his past, his miracle, and how he has tried to heal some hearts. (Including his own!)

Transcript

Welcome to Episode 94 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

This episode I interview Joe Friedman.

He lives on the East Coast and I think you'll hear a little bit of his accent in this episode.

At any rate,

His story is all about what haunts us.

But it's also about reunion.

It's about reconciliation.

Joe was a young GI sent overseas to fight in Vietnam.

His experiences over there,

Well,

They changed his life.

And if you listen to this episode,

You'll discover that what happened over there has followed him ever since.

A miracle is what happened after decades passed and how Joe is trying to be present for those in his life.

This story is about what we leave behind,

How we think about it and attend to it,

And the attempts we make to reconcile and heal all that has happened.

So now,

Episode 94 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

Then I went back to the Philippines.

After Vietnam,

I went back to the Philippines.

And we lived together until I had two sons.

And now it was time for me to be discharged in October 1970.

And I wound up borrowing some money and I had some saved.

And I wound up getting discharged there in October of 1970.

And I had bought him a house.

And I was naive to think that was enough.

Three bedroom house,

I completely furnished it.

And that was my,

That was like my going away present.

Because there was never any conversation that they were coming back to the States with me.

And there was never any conversation that I promised that I'd ever come back again.

You know,

It's like,

Bye bye.

Who are you as a human being?

How would you self describe?

At times,

Well,

First I would say,

It's difficult to know where to start that.

But my origins is,

I got it from the neighborhood that I grew up in.

I grew up in a working class neighborhood of Boston called Dorchester.

And my neighborhood was probably 65 to 70,

000 working class Jews.

It was a fabulous,

It was an ethnic neighborhood with all the pastry shops and the candy shops and the kosher markets and all the above.

Since then,

There are tremendous values from my mother and father and everybody else that will look after you on the streets,

Okay,

Has done well for me.

And in between a lot of nonsense,

I've kept those values.

If you want to call me an old Jewish mensch,

Are you familiar with that term?

Yes.

Yes,

I thought you might be.

That's who I am.

I'm a good guy.

At times very shy,

At times very charming.

Athletics has been a big part of my life for many,

Many years.

I've had many people that I've coached and helped out on the basketball court that come up to me and say,

You know,

Joe,

I want to just be just like you.

And I tell them,

Well,

You don't know my whole history.

So you might not be that sure you want to be that way.

That's basically who I am,

A guy that tries not to lie.

In most cases,

I don't.

Tries to be a good guy all the time,

Take a back seat,

Probably more modest than anything else.

And likes to have fun.

I wake up in the morning,

Even if I'm feeling bad,

I put a smile on my face and go out and meet the world.

Did your parents take you to church or synagogue?

Was it an important part of your life?

Was it an important part of the neighborhood?

It's a couple of answers.

It was a very important part of the neighborhood.

It was not an important part of my life.

All my parents life.

I grew up in a typical,

You know,

What a three decker houses?

No.

OK,

That's that.

That's a that's a city type.

That's a city type house.

It has that's on three floors with virtually no wind in between the houses.

OK,

So it would be it would be on a city street,

A side street with maybe 23 deckers on one side and 23 deckers on the other side.

So you're talking about 120 families on a street that wasn't more than 200 yards long.

Wow.

Therefore,

Everybody looked at over everybody in the in the biggest term.

My mother would used to say to me is don't be a shunder to the neighbors,

Which means I don't be ashamed to the neighbors.

OK,

Religious wise,

My grandmother and grandfather lived in the second floor.

My uncle and aunt lived in the third floor and me and my family lived in the first floor.

Those were the days there were five or six temples around the area.

Very,

Very close to the home.

But my house,

I can't say for whatever reason,

I never learned how to speak Yiddish.

My parents didn't.

They really never took me to a temple except when I was a Mitzvah.

And those were days for many first generation Jewish families that went growing up as families during the Second World War and the Holocaust.

Many were very embarrassed to claim they were Jewish back in those days.

So it's difficult to say the main if those were the reasons.

But I was never I was never introduced into that.

And if I was,

I might not have been interested anyway.

I mean,

I was a street kid hung around the pool rooms,

Gambling,

Athletics.

It really did my own thing.

Hang around the pool rooms and the gambling halls.

Sounds super exciting.

You know,

I think you get no idea.

Well,

This is what I learned as a very,

Very,

Very young man.

I was working in a pool room.

I was 14 or 15 years old.

This place was called Cutlass Pool Room,

And I was working the cash register and cleaning the tables.

And there were there were big some of the biggest bookmakers.

I'm not exaggerating,

But some of the biggest bookmakers in the whole city of Boston were hung around in those places.

They played poker.

They played blackjack.

They played gin rummy.

And every Friday afternoon,

There was a police station maybe a half mile down from the pool room,

Which is called Station Three.

And one of the sergeants would go into the back room and every Friday afternoon and talk to the people behind there.

And a number of times I would see them pass him an envelope.

Now what was in the envelope?

I can't be for sure,

But my imagination went rampant and was no doubt in my mind.

There was payoffs and it was cash for all the people that were letting all the illegal happenings going on around the neighborhood.

And that was my real first taste of realizing whatever whatever you think is happening isn't really,

Really happening.

And that is that has stayed with me probably my whole life.

Wow.

That's really interesting.

I mean,

That's so interesting.

You're 14,

You're 15,

And you are witness to this entire world that's kind of shady.

That's a little that's very probably illegal,

But is is,

You know,

Kind of just out there.

It doesn't sound like they were trying to hide it.

No,

No,

No.

There was no hiding about it.

There was no hiding about it at all.

You know,

Everything,

Everything was out,

Everything was out in the open.

And the bookmakers would stand in the corner waiting.

I mean,

These are years before cell phones and everybody could call.

I mean,

The bookmakers were either in the pool rooms or they'd be out in the corner just waiting for,

You know,

Whoever to show up and,

You know,

Give me give me the Red Sox or give me the Patriots or whatever sport was in season at the time.

Cash would change.

Cash would change hands and sometimes give and sometimes take.

So there was never really any hiding.

They were all everybody.

Everybody in their own way was protected at that at the particular time.

And my third question is always,

You know,

I would love to hear any stories of magic or miracles or any stories you'd like to tell where,

You know,

Your life changed or you witnessed someone else's life change.

I know it's a big question.

That's a hell of a question.

You know,

I don't know if I've seen I don't I don't know if I've seen miracles.

Maybe maybe the only miracle was I never went to jail.

You know,

In your life.

Yes.

You find it.

You find it humorous.

Well,

Let me begin in the beginnings of this reunion.

Oh,

No,

No.

I wouldn't say the beginnings of the reunion itself.

I would say I would say 37 years before the reunion.

Besides being a street kid,

I was also very,

Very,

Very,

Very shy.

OK,

I wasn't one of those.

I wasn't one of those kids.

I virtually didn't have any friends.

But that said,

I was welcome into everybody's group.

OK,

You know how when you're a kid,

Most people can't go from group to group.

I could go into any group and be welcome.

But that said,

They weren't close friends of mine.

I was very,

Very shy.

Never talked to girls.

Really never had a date.

Never had a dance.

Really didn't do anything completely anything with a young lady or any ladies whatsoever until I was in the military.

I was going to college in a hot beach.

I was going to Northeastern University.

This was in 1966.

And this was the middle of the draft.

And you had two choices.

You could either stay in college and be deferred or not stay in college and get drafted right away.

And the call of the streets was much,

Much,

Much,

Much too strong for me.

And I didn't last a second in school.

I lasted one semester and a half.

I quit school.

Within a couple of weeks,

I was sent up for physical.

And a couple of weeks after that,

I got a draft notice.

And I knew I didn't even know about Canada.

Not that I would have went to Canada.

But I didn't even know there were actually people going to Canada.

And I wound up getting out of the draft and enlisting in the Air Force for four years.

And before I knew it,

I went through basic training.

I went through this and that.

And all of a sudden,

I'm in the Philippines.

And I'm saying I didn't even know where the Philippines were.

And I'm there.

I'm a late bloomer.

I'm still a virgin in my life.

Everybody was going downtown to the local brothels and do what kids do and this and that and this and that.

And before I knew it,

Let me back up a little bit.

I really didn't have a loving family.

I think they loved me,

But they didn't know how to show their emotions.

I didn't have a mother or a father that really basically ever talked to me.

I don't remember either one of them ever saying that I love you or getting hugs.

And now I'm in the Philippines.

And all of a sudden,

I got a working girl hugging me.

And it was the greatest feeling that I ever had in my life.

You follow me?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I lost my virginity and maybe a week later or two weeks later,

I'm in a bar room and I'm talking to another working girl and we hit it off and she winds up being the mother of my two sons.

I had no idea what the frig I was doing.

I had not a not an iota of what was going on.

I was as naive as naive as I could possibly be.

I didn't realize the situation that I was putting myself putting myself into.

My first son was born while I was stationed in the Philippines.

My son born in the house.

We were living together.

Then I kept meeting people.

I didn't want to go to Vietnam,

But I kept meeting people.

I was in the Air Force.

I didn't carry a gun or anything like that.

And I kept meeting people that were saying,

Volunteer for Vietnam.

Okay,

It's the greatest duty in the whole world.

You just have a blast over there.

And me and my buddy,

We both volunteered and we both wound up getting stationed together and at Tonson Air Force Base in which was right outside Saigon.

And yeah,

We had a blast.

I mean,

It was great duty.

They didn't even know what was going on.

You know,

All they did was party and eat beautiful steaks and drink lots of beer and and see a lot of local,

See a lot of entertainers coming over from around the world,

Entertaining us.

And we also had what was called R&R,

Rest and Recuperation.

And I went back to the Philippines for one week.

And that's when my second son was conceived.

Then I went back to the Philippines after Vietnam.

I went back to the Philippines and we lived together until I got,

Had two sons.

She already had two other children from from from different people,

From different men.

And now it's now it was time for me to be.

Now it was time for me to be discharged in October 1970.

And my parents didn't even know I had grandchildren over there.

Not the faintest idea.

About a couple of months before I was getting discharged,

I wrote to him and I told him what was happening.

I can't imagine what they I can't imagine what they talked about,

You know,

When when when they got that letter.

And basically I was asking them for I was asking them for funds.

And I wound up borrowing some money and I had some saved and I wound up getting discharged here in October of 1970.

And I had bought him a house.

And I was naive to think that was enough.

I bought him a house talking about this is 1970 in the Philippines,

Fifteen hundred dollars,

Three bedroom house.

I completely furnished it.

And that was my I was like my going away present because it was never any conversation that they were coming back to the States with me.

And it was never any conversation that I promised that I'd ever come back again.

You know,

It's like bye bye.

I got back 1970 and I helped support him a little bit through the through the first couple of years.

But I was I was back gambling again,

Not doing not doing the right thing.

This and that.

And they were basically basically out of my thoughts.

And after a while,

There was no there was no particular contact.

Now it's now it's in the early 80s.

And all of a sudden,

For whatever,

They were back in my mind.

I had no idea how to get in touch with them.

I didn't have an address.

I really I really didn't have anything at all.

So I got in touch with the Pearl Buck Foundation in a miracle.

Within two weeks,

They had found my family.

They put information in the in a lot of the local newspapers in Manila.

And we were back in contact again.

Not contacted lasted no more than no more than a couple of months.

I was still doing the wrong thing,

Not doing the right thing with my life.

But within all these years,

Within all these years,

I had relationships with women.

And I wound up taking care of many,

Many,

Many,

Many children until this day.

Call me Papa.

And these are adults with children.

OK,

So I had a great relationship with many,

Many children,

But not but but but not my own.

So now they were basically forgotten about again by myself,

Not anybody else's hand in the situation.

Now it's 2007 and I had just moved.

I owned a house for over 20 years and I had moved maybe seven or eight months ago.

And they only they only forward mail for a full year.

And all of a sudden I got it and I already moved and I only been out of this seven,

Eight months.

And all of a sudden I got a letter from the Philippines and I opened it up and it's my son Stephen.

And he wrote me a letter that he found my old address where I used to live.

He wasn't even looking for it.

He was just going through some some boxes because his mother,

The mother of my children,

Had passed from cancer a number of years before.

And they were just cleaning out some stuff.

And they found my address and they wrote me a letter just just just hoping that this something might happen.

And I was in shock.

I wasn't living with anybody at the time.

I was working at the post office doing a night shift job,

Which only would last two or three months during Christmas.

And I had really nothing going on in my life.

And I read the letter and I said I was I felt like I was on steroids,

Prednisone.

I was bouncing off the walls.

And I'm saying to myself,

This couldn't this couldn't happen at a better time in my life.

And within and within one month,

I was in the Philippines,

Told my friends,

They threw a big party for me.

I told them,

You guys,

You might never see me see me again.

If I find my family,

That's where I'm staying.

If not,

If it doesn't work out,

I'll be I'll be back.

I'll be back shortly.

Before I knew it,

I was over there.

And all of a sudden is I'm in Manila Airport within a month.

And there's 15 is 15 people waiting for me with big signs.

Welcome.

Welcome.

Hello,

Hello,

Hello,

Which means grandfather.

Okay.

And I wound up meeting my two sons,

One daughter,

One law and three grandchildren and other various members of that extended that extended family.

It was Wow.

I didn't know what I was getting myself into.

You know,

When I was over there the first time that was backed up by the military and everything was I was a young man and everything looked like it was under those colored glasses.

And when I when I went back over there,

I found out that everything that I was looking at was actually poverty.

And I didn't recognize it at the time.

I wound up staying there.

Oh,

About 30 days.

I got very,

Very sick over there.

Two times my wife had been very,

Very sick,

But I thought I was going to die,

Which was which was both in the Philippines,

Probably drinking some bad probably drinking some bad water.

I knew right away,

But it wasn't for me.

I bonded.

I didn't bond with my sons while I was over there.

Why?

I don't know.

Was it because your mother was a working girl and I hadn't seen him for so many years in this and that?

I don't I don't know.

You know,

But my grandchildren,

I I bonded with I bonded with the meat immediately.

They were 11,

10 and seven months old at the time.

I bonded immediately with my with my grandson,

Joshua.

We were just playing catch with a ball,

You know,

Like fathers and sons play catch with a ball all the time.

Yeah.

And that's something I don't know if his father ever did with my son,

His father.

And all of a sudden,

We're in a we're in the street and we got a tennis ball and we're throwing it around.

And I can see him looking in his eyes as he's looking at me,

You know,

And he was astonished.

I mean,

I'm I was 60 years old at that particular time.

I think I think I was doing something with him that his father never did something with that his father maybe never did with him.

I don't know that for sure.

I'm just I'm just surmising just just the way just the way it came down.

And that said,

I had every intention to possibly stay.

They will they will live in a in a place that was basically basically falling down.

And and I said,

Well,

Let's put the family together again.

And we I rented I rented a three bedroom house and we we furnished it the best we could.

And we were all living together in the house after after after a while.

And but then I came to the realization that this just this this just wasn't this just wasn't for me at all,

You know,

For for a number for a number of reasons.

You know,

I remember I was only there I was only there a couple of days and I was talking and I was talking to my daughter in law's father.

And he basically looked me straight in the eye and says,

Now it's your turn.

I mean,

I was only over there for a visit.

You know,

I didn't know what to expect.

Within a couple of days,

They're telling me it's my turn to to support these people.

And I'm saying to I'm saying to myself,

What the hell did I get myself into here?

This is this is this is this is crazy.

I mean,

My sons,

They didn't have much of an education,

But but whatever.

Their local people,

They were they were in their late 30s already,

You know,

And married once.

I never got married.

His name was Freddie.

I was perplexed.

You know,

The time I was over there,

Many of them try to take advantage of me in many ways.

And I expected that after a while because they didn't.

I mean,

I,

I left years ago and never returned.

And why wouldn't they believe that I just might leave again?

You know,

So if it was a way to if it was a way to get something out of me at the time,

Why not?

Why not?

Right.

So I understood their motivations.

There's nothing I could do about it,

But it was understood their motivations.

So my wind up leaving and it was like a movie scene at the airport.

I had already given them basically all the money that I had on me.

And they were bringing me to ATMs,

To ATMs.

If I can get more money,

Just visualize people leaving and everybody get their hands out,

Just grabbing and grabbing and grabbing and grabbing it because they had no idea if I'd not only would they ever see me again,

But would they would they ever hear from me again?

It was a crazy scene.

And I wound up leaving the Philippines with only my luggage,

No cash in my pocket,

Nothing at all with a with a couple of credit cards,

Which is as good as cash.

So now I'm back in the States.

I wound up going to a therapist after a while,

You know,

To help me out and give me some insight.

What the hell am I?

What the hell should I do here?

Right.

And I wound up going to the right guy.

OK,

I never knew the guy before.

I just picked him out of a phone book and he was the salt of the earth.

And we had some great,

Great conversations.

He actually became my accountant in many ways and says he says,

Joe,

You can't afford to do this and this and this and this and this.

Because I wanted to help him somewhat.

And to make it short,

I realized I couldn't do both.

I couldn't help them and help my grandchildren.

I could help them all.

They could never get above poverty because I I wasn't a man of I wasn't a man of means.

Very,

Very,

Very,

Very little.

And I came to the conclusion that the only way to help them was to educate my my grandchildren.

And if they got a good education,

They'd be able to help their own parents in a future day,

Which I couldn't at the particular time.

This is 15 years ago.

So over the next so over the next 15 years,

A lot of arguments,

A lot of a lot of hardship.

I would I would send I would send my sons a little cash here and there.

And basically,

I I sent my grandchildren through high school,

Which cost them through college.

One has a bachelor of science in business and the other one has a bachelor of science in hotel and restaurant management.

But the great thing of putting them through college,

My mother obviously had never met any of these her grandchildren and her great grandchildren.

And at the time when my mother was still alive,

My me and my sister used to go up to visit her at the nursing home and we would open up the computer that was up there and she would see pictures of of my children.

And she loved every single one of them.

I mean,

With I unconditionally,

She would always ask about so many things.

And when my mother finally died,

You know,

The house that she was the house that was in trust that couldn't be sold until she passed away.

Me,

My sister and my brother wound up getting a piece of the profits.

And basically that money,

My it was left to me,

Put my grandchildren and her great grandchildren through school.

So in many ways,

It worked out in many,

Many ways.

It worked out beautifully.

Thanks so much for listening to Episode 94 of Bite-sized Blessings and my interview with Joe,

Whose story so heartfelt and so heartbreaking proves that we can always go back and sometimes heal the past.

And although the resolution with his family hasn't been perfect,

Still,

There are the grandchildren and the great grandchildren.

And I for one can say that those kids,

Those kids who are going to college and graduating are going to be the future of that family.

And so this episode is all about the miracle of how do we heal the past?

How do we atone for our mistakes?

How do we try to show up and be present for those that need us?

I need to thank the creators of the music used for this episode.

Music L Files,

Winnie the Moog,

Alexander Nacarada,

Raphael Crux,

And Kevin MacLeod.

For complete attribution,

Please see the Bite-sized Blessings website at bitesizedblessings.

Com.

On the website,

You'll find links to all sorts of goodies,

To podcast t-shirts,

To art,

To dance playlists that hopefully will lighten and brighten your day.

Thank you for listening.

And here's my one request.

Be like Joe.

Be hopeful.

What in your past do you regret?

What in your past do you feel is unresolved?

Can you resolve it now?

Think on those moments.

Think on the people affected.

And then if it's possible,

Be like Joe.

Reach out,

Have the difficult conversations,

And hopefully heal some hearts.