Episode Eighty-One: The Interview - Timothy Demme

You can have conversion experiences all day long, but if you're unwilling to accept the invitation on offer, then you're missing the entire point. Tim talks about the miracle of integrity, of gifts, and how often, where we don't want to go is where we are supposed to be.

Transcript

Welcome to episode 81 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

I'm on the Oregon coast now.

It's a beautiful day outside,

Sunny,

Lots of kids,

Dogs,

Beach balls,

Sandcastles on the beach.

It's a glorious day,

But here I am inside recording this podcast because,

Dear listeners,

I love you.

In this episode,

I get to interview life coach,

Timothy Demme.

On his website,

He has a quotation.

He says,

The destination is more of a who than a what.

And he says that he's plotting and walking the course with you from where you are to what you were made to be.

And maybe that's why our conversation took a turn to people's gifts,

To what they're meant to do in their lifetimes,

Their life purposes.

I really strongly feel that everyone is given an invitation,

And many invitations through their life.

You can do or not do,

Accept or not accept the invitations that are given to you,

But each of us has a life purpose or a gift that we're meant to share with the world.

And Timothy's work is about discovering that within each of his clients,

And then bring it forth into the world.

We talk a little bit about that in this podcast,

About what it looks like to have those revelations at any point in your life where you're forced to confront the reality of who you are and what you're meant to do,

And how you're supposed to be in the world,

And how terrifying it is.

And I know that probably each and every listener of this podcast has at some point in their life been confronted with this choice,

Or as I say,

Invitation.

This episode is really about the miracle of having these experiences,

These seminal moments in our life when the universe or God comes calling and asks you to wake up,

Asks all of us to wake up,

Asks us to wake up and show up.

And so that's what this episode is pretty much about.

The miracle of being asked,

The miracle of the invitation,

And then the miracle of whether we accept or not.

So now,

Without further ado,

Episode 81 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

I was finishing up what there was for me to do,

What there was for me to be responsible for.

And at that same time,

My mom and dad who were living out in Arizona were in a car accident,

And they were,

A couple of my siblings were helping them to figure out moving into assisted living and putting my dad into hospice.

And so I came out to visit and see if I could be of any help.

I had no intention whatsoever.

I had no idea,

No thought in my mind whatsoever of living in Arizona again.

I had lived in Arizona before.

Yeah,

It just was,

It was not on my radar at all.

But while I was there,

I had the experience of the Spirit of God instructing me to move there.

And so I was able to do that.

It's so funny because I,

Periodically,

I like to ask the people in the groups that I facilitate,

We like to do a round of who am I and what am I here for?

Because I think it is,

Or at least it can be,

An ever evolving question,

Ever evolving answer.

I suppose I might say that as far as I can tell,

I am ever evolving.

And there's something,

I don't know,

There's something that seems a bit trite about it to say,

But it is true for me that who I am is a child of God with a gift to share.

And part of,

Or one of my gifts is eliciting other people's gifts,

Helping people to identify and share their own gifts.

I currently,

I use the name coach to label myself,

But I also refer to myself as a minister.

So I think of myself as a shepherd.

I made up the word mid-husband to talk about myself as being someone who,

Not just someone,

But a male in particular who attends to people while they give birth to themselves.

I was raised in a Roman Catholic household,

And I would describe my mom as being devout.

I think my dad,

I would not describe him as being devout.

He was raised Catholic as well.

In my experience,

My dad didn't really become more serious about his faith or pursuit until his dad died and he got scared of his own death.

I don't know if that's actually true,

But that was my perception.

But even at the end,

Even when he died,

There were still,

He still had a lot of questions.

And as far as I can tell,

That's not true of my mom.

Like my mom is certain of her beliefs.

You know,

If you think about the Roman Catholic Church and the liturgy and the communion of saints and everything that goes along with the Roman Catholic Church,

What is one of the most evocative parts for you that kind of resonates with you?

For me,

It's,

I love it when they write icons,

I would say,

Oh,

They're painting an icon,

But I learned,

No,

No,

That's not what they're doing.

They're writing icons and the icons are so beautiful.

And there's always way more going on,

Meaning there's way more meaning making inside an icon.

Yeah.

But as a layperson,

You kind of,

You don't know the full extent of the story being told.

So I'm just curious if you have a favorite part that still resonates.

You know,

There is something about the ritual,

Even the,

I don't really want to use the word,

But the seeming extravagance of it,

Like the fine metals and the fine cloths and the finery of it.

There's something about the finery of it.

It's sort of like a feeble attempt to recognize who and what God is.

Like so fine,

Like finer than anything we can imagine.

And so,

You know,

To some degree,

It looks like extravagance and to some degree it is extravagant,

But there's also this piece of it that is,

It's really,

I perceive it as a representation of just how precious,

How indescribably precious God is.

["The Thee"] I was just curious because one of your self descriptions was minister or shepherd.

And so for me,

And I'm sure for a lot of people,

Those words are just evoke,

They have a religious tone.

Yeah.

So was that your intent with those words?

So yes and no,

Like with the word shepherd,

For example,

I think of my dog,

Nisha,

Who,

You know,

Was part German shepherd.

She was a white shepherd,

Wolf,

Malamute mix,

But she she shepherded,

She shepherded people.

If her people were not together,

Then,

You know,

She shepherded them.

So there's this way in which I am like just naturally like that along the lines of a shepherding dog.

I've been coaching for 15,

16 years now.

And in hindsight,

I could say that for the first 10 years,

Being a life coach,

That there was something out of alignment for me about saying that who I am as a life coach and what I do is life coaching.

And it was about six years ago that it came to me that for me,

Coaching is a ministry.

You know,

And then it took a couple of years,

Another couple of years to really understand what that meant for me.

And in that two year period,

I would say that I experienced a spiritual conversion,

That I had a conversion experience.

Yeah,

So the answer is yes.

And at the same time,

At the same time,

I would say that every one of us has a ministry.

We all have a ministry,

You know,

Our own particular gifting that there is for us to share.

True.

I also have reflected on the fact that your ministry doesn't have to be a grand one.

It can be complimenting people or being kind or doing acts of service randomly,

Wherever they're needed.

Doesn't have to be,

You know,

Actually parting the Red Sea.

Yeah.

Leading people out of slavery.

It can be a daily small act.

Doesn't have to be grand.

I think I would have to start by saying that,

Because I kind of talk about this all the time with the people that I work with.

I talk about in my training as a coach,

In my training as a life coach,

I was introduced to the concept that one way to think of integrity,

Like outside of a moral sense,

Outside of an ethical sense,

Like when you think about the integrity of a house,

Like the integrity of a structure,

Like kind of using the word in that sense,

That integrity,

The most basic level,

Is when our thoughts and our words and our actions,

Our thoughts and our words and our deeds are aligned.

That's integrity.

In terms of practical application,

The problem with thinking about integrity in that way is that I can think about committing murder,

I can speak about it and I can do it,

And that's integrity.

That may be true in that sense of that concept of integrity,

But to me,

It's not very useful.

That's not very useful.

The way that I typically talk about it is that for practical purposes,

Integrity is when we align our words and our actions with our greatest intention,

With our best intention,

And over and over again,

Especially when it is most difficult to do so,

When it is most difficult to align our words and our actions with our best intention,

That's when the miracles happen.

And I've seen that over and over again.

The only problem with that is we don't know what the miracle is gonna be until we do or say the scary thing that aligns with our best intentions.

I was thinking about this,

You know,

Because you had shared with me what your main questions are.

And so I was thinking about this before we started talking.

The biggest miracles that I've seen,

That I've experienced are when,

You know,

Sort of inside of that same kind of miracle is when you have to think about,

You know,

What are the miracles that you can do that aligns with your best intentions,

And what are the miracles that you can do that align with your best intentions?

And so the miracles that I've experienced are when,

You know,

Sort of inside of that same construct of aligning our actions and our words with not so much our thoughts,

Not even our best intentions,

But with the guidance,

The direction of the Holy Spirit.

Like when we actually tap into this spirit of God,

And we actually do it,

We do it,

And we align our words and our actions with that guidance,

With that direction,

That is when the miracles happen.

And there's kind of a,

You know,

One example of that is when four and a half years ago,

I was living in upstate New York,

And it was time to leave.

There was a relationship that was ending,

And I knew that I wasn't going to be staying in upstate New York,

But for once in my life,

I did,

There wasn't a place that I wanted to be.

Like I've been really oriented to place in my lifetime,

And for once in my life,

There wasn't a place that I wanted to be.

There's really a lot more to it,

But the short story is that I was finishing up what there was for me to do,

What there was for me to be responsible for,

And at that same time,

My mom and dad,

Who were living out in Arizona,

Were in a car accident,

And they were my,

A couple of my siblings were helping them to figure out moving into assisted living and putting my dad into hospice,

And so I came out to visit and see if I could be of any help.

I had no intention whatsoever.

I had no idea,

No thought in my mind whatsoever of living in Arizona again.

I had lived in Arizona before.

Yeah,

It just was,

It was not on my radar at all,

But while I was there,

I had the experience of the Spirit of God instructing me to move there.

It's kind of hilarious.

Like,

It was a,

It was a really a very visceral feeling.

It was a very visceral feeling.

It was like,

It was unmistakable,

Like one of the,

Like,

Yeah,

Just unmistakable,

But I,

But I,

But I doubted it.

I'm like,

Huh,

You know,

I don't know.

You know,

That's why,

You know,

But big part of the reason I became a coach is so that I could,

I could,

I could be mobile and I could be anywhere.

I could work from anywhere.

So,

You know,

I don't have to live here.

I can,

I can visit frequently,

Go back and forth,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Whatever.

And then the very next day,

Like it was right back.

It was like,

It was like,

No,

We didn't say go back and forth.

We said,

Move there.

And it doesn't,

It doesn't come to me in that kind of,

It doesn't come to me in that way,

But it was just like I said,

It was this very visceral feeling.

It was this very clear knowing that what there was for me to do was to,

Was to move to,

To Prescott,

Arizona.

So I,

I knew enough to know that that certainty would probably fade.

My,

My mind is very reliable for second guessing.

And I knew that.

So,

You know,

So I knew that what there was to do was to,

Okay,

You know,

While you have this certainty,

While you have this clarity,

Let people know because there's a good chance you'll try to back out of it otherwise.

You know,

I went back to upstate New York and,

And was,

You know,

Wrapping up my business.

And of course,

Yeah,

The second guessing came in and the doubting,

But I,

But I had told people so,

And then it,

It came time at the beginning of December to,

To go out to Prescott and I wasn't even hoping to find a place to live.

Like I was just thinking like,

I didn't,

You know,

Know the area at all.

I just need to learn that area and maybe figure out where I might begin to look for a place to live.

Plus I'm not going to be able to,

I won't be out there for a couple of months.

I won't be able to move out for a couple of months.

So this is really just a preliminary visit.

I'd been doing some,

You know,

Looking online for,

You know,

What kind of housing was available and,

But not super intent the morning that I was flying.

It might've been,

It might've even been while I was at the airport that,

Uh,

An email came in with a listing for a rental and I looked at it and I said,

Oh,

That's it.

That's my house.

And so I landed in Phoenix.

I called the landlords and,

Um,

Arranged to see it the next day.

I went to see it the next day and like,

Okay.

Yeah.

And then this,

This is it.

And that was it.

And it was really like a perfect place for me in the woods,

In the trees,

But a mile and a half from downtown,

Uh,

A mile and a half,

Maybe two miles from where my,

My parents were living in,

In,

In assisted living.

You know,

That's one of my favorite examples.

Um,

Just try trusting the knowing,

You know,

Trusting the idea that I had been given and,

You know,

Doing what there was to do,

Aligning my words,

Like telling people,

I'm going to do this,

Telling people I'm going to do this.

And then following through and then while LA,

Like it just was so simple and so easy and so perfect.

And yeah.

And,

And not just with the house,

Like the house was,

That was just the start of it.

Like it just was,

It was very clearly a gift in so many ways for me to be put in that place at that time.

It's almost like the red carpet is rolled out when you have to be somewhere and show up for something.

It's really interesting.

I've had that happen to me a few times in my life as well.

And it kind of erases any doubt.

Yeah.

It wasn't until I would say it wasn't until after my,

The conversion experience that I had.

In September of 2016.

That I felt that I.

You know,

Experienced being receptive to.

You know,

The,

The Holy spirit,

The spirit of God.

And then.

That I had that I actually had the option to listen and do or not do say or not say what I'd been,

You know,

What I was being guided.

Were you expecting to have a conversion experience?

I know that's a silly question because I don't think anybody expects to have a conversion experience,

Which is why they're so surprising and kind of shocking.

And so I,

I just.

You know,

I had one in 2010.

And I didn't really understand what it was about until a few months later.

Was that your experience as well?

Or was it.

Were you like,

Oh my gosh,

I know what's happening.

I knew what it was about right then and there.

Yeah.

I've been.

You probably have heard of the film.

The last temptation of Christ.

I was reading the book.

Which is an interesting story.

I was reading the book,

Which is in my estimation,

A masterpiece.

It's just,

It's a masterpiece.

As I was reading it,

I was having this awareness,

This realization that.

It is a fictional account.

It's a fictional account of the life of Jesus.

But for me,

The experience that I was having is it.

Was that it was like,

It was like filling in this whole hemisphere.

That I had never experienced in the church.

And I was like,

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm going to say that.

It was filling in this whole dimension of Jesus and all of those characters in there.

Most humanity.

Like in the very depths of their humanity.

And somehow for some reason,

Like that was the missing puzzle piece for me.

And I was like,

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

This is awesome.

So I was actually in Chicago.

Visiting your sister.

When this happened.

In September of 2016.

We were going to put down a workshop together and I was there for the weekend and I was reading this book and I was staying in this Airbnb.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'm going to pray.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'm going to pray.

And I was praying.

I wasn't praying for a conversion experience,

But.

The awareness that I had had it had to do with.

Jesus's experience with John the Baptist.

And so I,

I,

And so I went to bed that night.

Praying and I woke up the next morning.

It was a Sunday morning.

I knew it was like,

Okay,

It's time to get baptized.

And,

And,

And I actually went out on the street.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'll just go back to my house.

And I was like,

Okay,

I'll just go back.

And I remember.

I forget what part of Chicago I was in.

I just walked out the door.

Walked up the street,

Turned the corner.

There was a.

Baptist church right there.

I'm like,

But you know,

What better place to get baptized than a Baptist church.

And they didn't actually,

You know,

I didn't actually get baptized that morning,

But I also understood that that the conversion had already taken it for,

You know,

Of having it witnessed.

There was sort of this awareness that was building in me,

But then,

No,

It did it when it happened,

Like I knew it right then and there.

That book is so beautiful.

It is so beautiful.

And what I loved about it was I've always had a low Christology,

Which means I think Jesus is more human than God.

And I just like thinking of Jesus that way because to me then he's more accessible.

He's more,

Yeah,

He's more relatable.

I can understand like his trials,

His tribulations,

His heartaches more readily.

So he is tortured in that book.

I mean,

And I don't mean,

I don't mean when he's crucified,

I mean,

In being pursued by God,

You know,

To fulfill his purpose.

He is tortured.

One of the passages in the Bible that haunts me and makes me kind of sick to my stomach and want to just cry every time I read it is when he asks God to take the cup from him in the garden.

And I just think,

How human is that?

You know,

Please,

Please don't,

I don't want to live into my purpose.

I don't want to live,

Take it away from me.

I want to live.

A lot of humans feel that way sometimes with their gifts.

Sometimes their gifts can be a little bit of a burden.

Yeah.

Oh,

Yeah.

Okay.

You've experienced that then you've had people's gifts can be burdens sometimes.

Yeah,

I certainly experienced that myself at times.

I actually,

I don't talk to too many people who have read that book much less,

You know,

Appreciate it as much as I do.

The scene that really impressed me was when Jesus is being depicted before he goes to John the Baptist to get baptized.

He's depicted as carrying an almond branch.

You know,

I don't know what all of the almond branch represents,

But I think I actually looked it up at the time and I had this understanding that you know that the almond branch was about watching or observing and then he encounters John the Baptist who is wielding an axe which represents the word as I recall from the book from the book.

Jesus walks away from being baptized.

He's still carrying the almond branch.

But now he now he's carrying the axe and what I saw for myself was that like I have been I've been an observer my whole life.

I've been observed my whole life.

I'm gifted as an observer.

I sit back and I watch and I see things I perceive things that other people don't perceive but speaking up that that is yeah,

That's a whole other thing.

Well,

And that's what I went to bed and prayed for that night that I would be willing to pick up and wield the axe which is the word which is about speaking up about what I perceive,

You know,

Here I am now talking with you.

Yeah,

That it's not easy for me.

I mean,

I've come so far in terms of my ability to formulate and you know,

For an articulate ideas formulate words and articulates ideas,

But it's it's not come easily.

Just just that part of it just a functional part of it just a functional part of it and then there's the whole part that has to do with what you're saying and how people are going to receive it and you know,

And the yeah,

The dangers the risks and dangers of all that.

So yeah,

Sounds like you feel really profound connection to Spirit or God and and that energy just tells you what it wants whether it's through your dreams or what it wishes for you for you moving to Arizona.

And of course,

I like to think of all of those those things as invitations so you can refuse the invitation but it sounds that you absolutely accept the invitations.

I think I'm getting better at yeah,

I think I'm pretty good at accepting the invitations but I think I'm getting better at listening.

I suspect that I was being invited all along,

You know,

For a long time was very poor at listening or noticing and yeah,

Only in the last handful of years or so have I have I learned to listen a little bit better.

I'm still pretty sure that I'm only I'm only picking up a fraction of what there is to you know,

What there is to pick up.

Thank you so much for listening to Episode 81 of Bite-Sized Blessings.

I'd like to thank my guest Timothy Demme for sharing all of his stories and for sharing his ideas of how we should be in the world living with integrity living into authenticity and accepting the invitations that come to us.

I need to thank the creators of the music used as well in this episode,

John Bartman,

Frank Schroeder,

Alexander Nakarada,

Music L.

Files,

And Lyran.

On the website you'll find links to other episodes,

Music,

Art,

And change makers I think will lift and inspire you.

Thank you for listening and here's my one request.

Be like Timothy.

Listen,

Listen,

And then listen some more.

And any invitations,

Accept them.

It might be scary,

It might be terrifying,

And you don't actually know where those invitations are going to take you,

But it's exciting.

It's a new adventure.

So I urge you and Timothy urges you,

Accept those invitations.

Accept those invitations and then sit back and watch as your life becomes even more magical.

So maybe I could even ask for a mulligan like a whole do-over.

You could.

You could do whatever.

Whatever.

Whatever.

We want our customers to be satisfied.

Okay,

Wonderful.

Customer satisfaction is our number one goal.