When Love Is An Action: Feeling True Love

What if love is an energy that is meant to flow between us? How would our relationships change when love wasn't a noun - something that was "just there"? What if it was a constant movement, a series of actions? Imagine how different relationships would be! This was originally a live talk here on Insight Timer.

Transcript

So today we're talking about love.

We're talking about love as an action.

And again,

When I sat with this this morning and I thought,

Okay,

Why do we really want to talk about this?

I'm always really passionate about the idea when I create the class,

But that's weeks and weeks ago.

So it's always interesting about on the morning of when I think,

Okay,

Why are we talking about this today?

And one of the big reasons that love being an action is really interesting to me is because we're often really hurt in relationships.

And one of the reasons we're hurt is because we use the word love,

But it isn't love.

It's like our soul understands what love is.

We know that it's sacred.

We know that it's important.

We know that it matters.

We know that when we have love in our hearts,

When we actually treat each other in a loving way,

That this is like intrinsically human.

This is an important aspect of being human and that it's special.

And even though we can't put words to it,

Like if I was to say,

How do you define love?

This is a very,

Very difficult thing to put words to,

Which to me means this is a soul experience.

This is a transcendent experience.

It's the experience of something that cannot just be put into a three-dimensional language model.

And our soul knows this.

So when someone says,

Oh,

I love you,

Our soul goes,

Oh,

This is important.

This is powerful.

This is sacred.

This is special.

This is important.

No matter how they treat us,

No matter how we experience it,

It doesn't matter.

We assume it's real,

Then we get into trouble because it isn't.

It's kind of like somewhere along the line.

And I don't think it's an evil intention always.

I think sometimes it's definitely manipulative.

Sometimes it's really not OK.

But most of the time we were raised in a way and we were told that this is love.

You know,

Someone disciplines us and they say,

This is for your own good.

It's only because I love you.

I'm doing this.

That's not love.

You know,

They might discipline you because they're frightened.

They might discipline you because they're angry.

They might discipline you because you've hurt their pride.

But it's not love.

And when we're raised in a certain way and this magical word love is used,

It's like it creates this dissonance between our soul and our personality or our incarnation.

So you imagine I'm born.

The incarnation of Katrina in 1969 comes into this space time continuum and she doesn't know the rules of the ropes,

The ropes,

The rules of the world.

I don't think that's the right phrase.

And she comes in and she's trying to figure it out.

What is love?

What is relationships?

What is connection?

What is what does it mean to be a human?

So this little child is trying to figure it out.

But that's the that's the innocent child.

There's also this eternal soul inside that knows stuff.

So as soon as someone says,

Oh,

Well,

They love you.

Something is supposed to connect between my soul and this incarnation that goes,

Aha,

Stick around.

This is important.

Important.

They said the magic word.

They said the password.

Stick around.

And now let's say it becomes weird after that.

What if they hurt me?

What if they neglect me?

What if they're sarcastic?

What if they're judgmental?

But they said the magic word and I'm only six years old.

Well,

Maybe that's what love is.

And it creates this dissonance inside that says,

I don't think so,

But I don't know anything else.

And I can't look into anyone else's life.

So maybe they're right.

So at a very early age,

We decide that,

Oh,

This is what love is.

It's almost like love is any kind of attention at all.

Positive,

Negative,

Anything at all.

Well,

Then what happens?

Then we go to school and we have friends that are judgmental or mean or catty or whatever.

Or we have a girlfriend or a boyfriend who is controlling and punishing.

And we and they go,

Oh,

But I love you.

And you go,

Yeah,

Yeah,

This is right.

This is the kind of love I've experienced.

Yeah.

And then,

You know,

You go to work and the boss says,

Hey,

You know what?

I really care about my people and I really care about blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And yet hours are being piled on and money's getting slashed and funding is getting slashed.

And you're like,

No,

Well,

I guess this is right.

Right.

So it's a huge problem that this word love has been kind of bastardized.

And the danger is like,

I remember one of my friends,

She got married and the guy was really abusive.

Like he was more emotionally abusive than anything.

But of course,

Her previous husband was physically abusive.

So this guy was a step up.

He was more loving,

Even though he was super emotionally distant.

And then when he was close,

He was abusive.

And one time she said to him,

She said,

You know,

How come you never tell me you love me?

And he said,

I married you,

Didn't I?

Of course,

I love you.

And she just took that as truth.

Like,

Oh,

OK,

Yeah,

I guess you're right.

I don't I don't know what I was thinking.

And then she,

Of course,

Was also raised in a really difficult home where anyway,

It was really,

Really bad.

So she thought,

OK,

It must be me because he loves me.

Like we throw this word around way too much.

I go chat with people and it always and I don't know why,

But really recently,

Which is probably why we're talking about this today,

Because it's really current in my own thoughts is when I'm chatting with someone and they're talking about a family member or an ex or a friend or someone who's driving them crazy,

Like to the point of absolute fighting,

I can't even talk to them,

I can't stand them.

They were so cruel to me,

Whatever.

But then they'll say.

I mean,

I love them.

I mean,

Obviously,

I love them,

But I really can't stand to be around them.

And this is causing a huge dissonance inside of my mind right now.

It's almost like one of the things I find very current in the world is a lot of these weird ideas that we've just accepted for centuries or millennia.

It's like the veil is coming off and we're seeing it for what it really is.

And we're looking at it going,

No,

Hold on,

That's not true.

And that's how I feel about this.

And so I always say to my friend,

I'm like,

You actually love them?

Is that the word you want to use?

Well,

You know what I mean.

And then we end up in this indescribable place that we don't know how to call it.

We don't know what to say.

We don't know how do we say that?

How do we?

What if we are furious with one of our parents?

What if we are furious with a sibling or a friend or whoever?

Is it love or is it something else?

It's almost like love has become such an umbrella term that it actually means nothing.

Like it means I was once connected or there's something that ties us together no matter how we act,

No matter how we feel.

And that's a problem because it's.

So let's say,

For example,

We had a really dysfunctional marriage.

But we kept using the word love.

And even though there was barely any sex and when there was sex,

We have to be drunk or high or something to do it or when it's sex,

It's really not great or it's really fast or it's not satisfying.

You don't really hang out.

You don't really talk.

You can't confide in each other.

You live together and you got married and maybe you had kids or something.

And then someone said,

So why do you stay?

Well,

You know,

We love each other.

What does that mean?

And there's a danger in it.

There's a danger in using this all encompassing word when it means nothing.

But our soul knows that the possibility,

The actual love is a sacred fire,

Like it's a sacred connection.

So it's almost like we're using a very blase word,

But it's registering inside as being very important.

And this.

I think this is a huge problem.

So now,

Instead,

Instead,

What if we couldn't use the word?

What if we weren't allowed to use the word love?

Unless it was actually reflected on the earth in action and sense and feeling.

OK,

So we're going to talk about what that looks like in a second.

But let's just say we're not allowed to use it.

Unless it's sacred love.

So now how would I describe my relationship?

Someone would say,

Well,

So why do you guys stay together?

I mean,

You don't you don't really like hanging out together.

I might say,

Well,

I suppose it's comfortable.

I don't really want to go back into the single life.

And we know each other really well.

We may not really like each other very much,

But we do know each other.

It's kind of the devil,

You know.

You know,

We have a lot of our families.

Our families know each other.

We have a lot of mutual friends.

Really,

I think it's just a companion,

Kind of like living with a sibling.

And once in a while,

If I get really horny,

We just get really drunk and have sex.

So that's why I stay.

What if we were just honest?

But we didn't say,

Well,

No,

It's not about love.

Love is I mean,

I would love to have love one day.

That would be great.

It just allows us to call it for what it is.

There's nothing wrong with being in a relationship out of comfort or out of convenience or out of fear or for economic reasons.

Like if we were to say,

Well,

You know what,

I can't really afford to live on my own and maintain this kind of life.

And I'm not really ready to jump into something new.

And so this is OK.

And I think they're OK with it,

Too.

Maybe one day I'll have love.

It doesn't it doesn't have to be a big judgment,

But at least it's honest.

Right.

So if we actually asked ourselves,

What is love?

Like,

What a difficult question,

Because it's such a it's like saying,

What is the sky?

What is the color blue?

Like so much of what is real in life is absolutely impossible to describe.

Thank goodness.

Right.

Because then our soul gets to answer.

But we are having a verbal conversation.

So if we imagine in the greatest sense,

What if I was just to say,

I love humanity?

I love people.

I love being alive.

I love this world.

I love the people in it.

What if that's what I said at the most general sense?

Forget about individual stuff that we'll get to in a moment.

But I love humanity.

That love would translate first into a sense of being.

What does that sense of being feel like?

Optimism,

Kindness,

Inner peace,

Joy.

Right.

There's this.

I love humanity.

There is this beautiful sense inside.

So then now what's the action?

Because without action,

It isn't in the world.

The action that goes along with this beautiful sense of being is kindness.

If I actually love humanity,

How would I walk down the street?

How would I react if someone was angry or mean to me?

Remember,

I love humanity.

I love humanity.

I walk down the street and someone is cruel to me.

How do I respond if I love humanity?

I respond in love.

And I look at this other soul and I think,

Wow,

They must be really hurting.

They must really have been hurt in their life.

So you know what I'm saying?

There has to be a connection into the world that manifests what I'm saying.

If my actual truth is,

Humanity confuses me to no end.

Most people I can't stand.

I don't really want to be around them and I don't really like people.

Well,

Then if I walk down the street and someone's mean,

I'm going to be like,

People,

Stupid.

Right?

Like,

It's just interesting to be really honest if we're going to use the word love.

Because if my meditation today is,

I am going to feel love for all people.

Like,

Feel what that feels like.

Imagine that's what you are going to embody today.

Like,

This is a sacred word.

I love everyone.

So now you're going to walk out into the world and no matter who you meet,

This is your sadhana.

In the yogic and spiritual traditions,

There's something called sadhana.

And sadhana means daily spiritual practice,

But it's a practice that expands us.

That's why if you were to choose a sadhana,

Let's say you were really flexible.

Your daily sadhana would not be yoga that increases your flexibility or uses your flexibility.

It would be something else.

It has to be something that makes us grow in spirit and grow in our soul.

So to sit and say,

I am love.

And no matter where we go in the world,

That's all we embody.

This is very powerful.

This is a powerful spiritual practice.

So when I was writing the book Tantric Intimacy,

One of my great challenges in teaching tantra was,

One is I guess,

But was this challenge.

I didn't know it at the time.

I didn't understand why it was so hard to connect,

Why it was so scary for us to be vulnerable in relationship.

And without the souls being open and able to connect,

All the magic doesn't happen.

Like these incredible infinite multi-dimensional beings,

When we actually connect with another,

And I don't mean just in sexual intimacy.

I mean in friendship,

In parents,

Children,

Grandparents,

Grandchildren,

Lovers,

All of it.

When those infinite beings,

The channels are open and they actually connect and that energy then flows through them,

That's all the magic.

That's when you see these pictures of tantricas and things in embrace and the energy is flying in there in complete ecstasy and bliss.

This is within every single one of us.

You don't have to be some yogic tantric master.

I mean it just really means being a master of being human.

It's not a thing.

But so my challenge was always,

Why are we so blocked?

Why don't we just open our hearts and just completely connect?

Because that's all it takes is pure vulnerability.

We all have all the channels.

We all have a seventh chakra and a first chakra.

The energy and we have all of it,

Every single one of us.

Why are we intentionally blocking the other?

And so when I was writing Tantric Intimacy I wrote that book because I'd been teaching for a while,

Like in person and online.

And everyone kept asking me,

Like,

Is there a book I can read?

Is there a book I can read?

And I didn't have a book I could recommend because that's not where the teachings came from for me.

And I was so struggling with how to begin.

What's the foundation of this book?

And then I,

For me,

My great answers always come in a hot tub.

It's always sea salt in a very hot tub.

And I lie there and all of a sudden answers come.

And the answers came that we have to redefine love.

Because it's because of this misunderstanding of love.

That we say,

Why can't I connect with this person?

We love each other.

Well if you can't connect with this person,

Yet you love each other,

There are actions in your relationship that are not loving.

There is judgment,

There is sarcasm,

There is criticism,

There is fear,

There is pride,

There are all these other things that are not loving.

And it's really important to be able to say that to ourselves,

To say,

There isn't something wrong with me that I can't open.

It's because the relationship is not loving.

Like this is really important.

If we're afraid to open up,

Remember someone,

So the foundation of love is agape,

Which is kindness.

So in my online course,

Especially for couples,

But it's for everyone,

The first sadhana that they must do in the first module is that they have to be 100% kind for one week.

At least to their partner.

If they have other issues,

That's at work or whatever,

But you must be kind 100% for a week.

And of course this is where the elephant in the room gets called out.

Because there isn't 100% kindness.

Well,

Why wouldn't there be?

Like if we take the sacredness of love,

If I love you,

Why would I be unkind to you?

Why would I be short with you?

Why would I give you the cold shoulder if I love you?

And I don't mean all that weird manipulative love,

The manipulative things that are used and called love.

I mean love.

Well,

I wouldn't be.

I remember one time,

The first time I think I really experienced something different,

Because even in my marriage,

You know,

We were loving and we did love each other,

But we struggled when we would argue because it would become defensive.

And my first partner after that,

What was fascinating to me is the first time we had an issue and he was really jealous.

And I ended up,

I had lied to him because I literally wasn't allowed to hang out with anyone.

I know this sounds really twisted,

But anyway,

Aloud.

Wow,

I can't believe I said that out loud.

Anyway,

And I got caught in the lie and we were standing there and I didn't know what to say,

Because the truth is I was mad.

I was furious with him that he was being controlling.

He was furious with me that I had lied to him.

And we were in this massive standstill.

Like we were just like.

But for the first time in my life and probably even including as a child with parents and friends and everything,

We stood there and all we wanted to do was be back in love.

And he said this and he wasn't a spiritual guy.

He wasn't a really.

He just wasn't.

He just he just wasn't.

And and he just looked at me and we stood there kind of just staring at each other,

But neither of us necessarily wanted to be right.

And he just said,

I just want to be back in love.

And when he said that to me,

I thought.

Wow,

It's like the personalities have clashed.

But all we want to do is have the connection again.

That's all we want.

Like it's kind of like over here.

Yeah,

There's attraction.

There's love,

But I want we want the love back.

We want that back.

And right now we can't because the personalities have clashed.

And I don't even know what happened.

I don't remember anymore.

But all I know is someone said something and the other one said something.

And the love was back.

The connection was back.

But there was no fight because the only desire was to be back in that connection.

And that was so interesting to me.

So this idea of agape.

So now let's imagine similarly as before,

If you held agape in your heart.

So agape is the love of all people.

It's not necessarily personal.

It's when you genuinely look at another person.

Imagine we we look at everybody here today and we hold agape for them.

We look at them through the eyes of God.

We look at them.

Remember my my daughter,

Taylor,

One day she was working as a cashier and she was 16.

And so this was eight years ago,

I guess.

And she comes home one day and she says,

Oh my God,

Mom,

She said,

People are so angry right now.

I don't know what was going on.

But she was just like,

People are just so upset and angry all the time.

And she said,

People were coming through and just giving her hell no matter what it was.

It was just they were just taking it out on the cashier,

You know,

One of those.

And she said,

So I looked at them and I thought to myself,

You know,

Somewhere there's someone who loves this person.

Their mom is out there somewhere or maybe not anymore.

But that person loves this person.

So she said,

For the rest of her shift,

She just looked at them through the eyes of someone who loves them.

That's agape.

Imagine walking through the world,

No matter who you see,

Whether it's someone who drives you crazy or it's a homeless person on the street or whether it's a friend of something.

And you just look at them through the eyes of someone who loves them.

This is agape.

Agape is completely nonjudgmental.

And we look at people and we go,

Well,

I don't understand your path,

But I don't really have the viewpoint to see anyway.

So all the best,

My friend.

I trust your judgment.

That's agape.

You don't even have to know somebody.

You just have to know that,

Hey,

We're all in this together.

We're all a little messed up.

Right?

Like,

That's agape.

But there's an action that's a part of that.

What is the action of agape?

Kindness,

Respect.

This is important.

We can't say that we have agape and then say,

Can you believe they did that?

Like,

What are they thinking?

Not agape.

Like,

If that's what we're saying,

If that's what we're thinking,

Then we have to ask ourselves,

Why am I not holding agape in my heart?

Again,

It's just a truth thing.

It's not a judgment like,

Oh,

I'm a loser because I don't have agape.

Again,

That's not very agopic for self.

Right?

We need to listen within.

Right?

We need to love within too.

But there's an action.

And the action is kindness and nonjudgment.

Right?

Nonjudgmental words,

Nonjudgmental action.

This is agape.

So then,

Let's say you actually meet someone and there's some kind of draw there.

I don't mean sexual.

I mean a draw.

This is what the ancient Greeks would have called philia or brotherly love.

Obviously not gendered.

But,

Right,

Philia.

P-H-I-L-I-A.

Philia is when you look at someone and you actually like hanging out with them and you talk to them.

What is the action?

Because it's one thing,

Again,

To say that we're friends.

Oh,

Yeah,

We're friends.

We're great friends.

We love each other.

It's awesome.

But what does this mean?

What is the action?

What is the proof on the ground?

What is the evidence?

Well,

You're trustworthy.

You're safe for this person to be your confidant.

You have their back.

They can depend on you if they need someone.

These are actions.

If you have a friend and you call them a friend,

But you can't actually tell them the truth and you can't actually trust them that they'll keep it between you and you don't necessarily know that they'll actually defend you if needed,

Are they friends?

Like,

Really?

Like,

If there's no actions that are actually coming out of what we are pretending is philia.

So now you imagine this in a relationship,

Like in an intimate relationship.

The foundation of all relationships,

Regardless,

Is agape.

So there has to be kindness and non-judgment.

Now you say,

Oh,

You know what,

And we're just such good friends.

I can trust them.

So now there's trust and there's safety,

Philia.

Now let's imagine there's also eros,

Love,

Passionate love.

Oh,

We have so much eros.

This is a sacred thing.

This is no small thing.

Like,

I always laugh like whenever I'm in a dating mode and I'll meet,

I'll match with someone and they'll say,

Oh,

We could do this and this and that.

I was like,

You know what,

We actually should just meet.

And this may sound really,

This may sound terrible that I'm going to say to you.

But I would actually honestly say,

You know,

Let's just meet because like there's a 99 percent chance that we're just friends.

Well,

There's probably even a higher percent chance that we're not even friends,

Which sounds hilarious,

I think.

But it's true.

The chance of actually finding eros with someone is very low.

You know,

And it's nothing personal.

It's like some divine cupid's arrow.

It's very curious why we have erotic love for that person,

But not that person.

And it's kind of a shocker when we realize that it has nothing to do with looks or anything else.

It's well,

Society thinks it's all about looks,

But it's not.

It's not about position in society.

It's not about your job.

It's not about anything.

Cupid's arrow is one of the most confusing things in the world.

And of course,

The guys would always be like,

Well,

That's really negative.

And it's like,

Listen to my voice.

That's how I do them.

But it's like,

But that's just reality.

Eros is is.

It's sacred because to me,

Eros isn't just lust.

Lust is easy.

Right.

You know,

Are you hot enough?

Am I attracted to you enough to have sex with you?

Well,

Dogs have sex on the corner.

I mean,

Lust is easy.

That's a no brainer.

Right.

If all I wanted was lustful sex,

Well,

You know,

That's easy.

But actually something deep and connected.

So when I was writing Tantric Intimacy,

I had these ideas about love.

And because I'd always studied,

Like even when it went when I went back to university and studied psychology,

I.

Of course,

The we studied the Greek archetypes of love,

But they never made sense to me.

They all seemed very disconnected.

And,

Oh,

There was eros and there was Sturge and there was agape and there all these things,

But they didn't connect in.

So my first vision was actually that love was like a river.

And.

That if you and I had a gap,

It was like this beautiful stream of connection,

Like almost that you and I are both humans here on the planet together.

Isn't that awesome?

Let's help each other.

I don't even know you,

But let's help each other.

It was this lovely stream of connection.

And then if you and I became friends,

Like confidants,

It's like it became a bit of a river.

There was more.

It was deeper.

More could be shared.

More energy could be shared.

More of my heart could be shared.

Right.

And then eros was even a deeper,

But it was all based on this initial agape.

And one of so one of Taylor's friends,

This lovely artist.

And so I was telling her about this.

And I said,

Could you create a picture of what that looked like in relationship?

Like,

What does love look like if we were to bring agape,

Philia and eros together in a in a.

In a relationship,

What would it look like?

And I know some of you guys have read my book,

So you've seen this before and heard all this before.

But this is what she drew.

Where agape were the roots and philia was the trunk and the branches and eros were the leaves and the blossoms.

And now you imagine the actions like we talk about actions.

Well,

Let's actually also talk about the lack of love,

The non loving actions and what happens to this tree.

Every time there is a lack of kindness,

One of these roots are cut.

Every time there is a breach of trust,

A nick goes in here.

This is really important because this is how relationships wither.

They may not die right away.

The tree survives,

But they slowly aren't getting any nutrients.

They're slowly starting to lean.

They can't find the sun and they kind of die.

And this is this is the flip side of love as an action.

If we don't understand love as an action,

We don't understand the opposite of love as an action.

We don't understand that when someone is judgmental,

This is not loving.

Or if someone is mean to us or controlling or distant,

This is not loving.

And so we have to actually start looking at ourselves because we need to be able to have this concept in our mind so that we don't mistake it.

We don't say,

No,

No,

If they hurt me,

That's love.

If they're distant,

That's love.

Right.

It's not love.

It's something else,

But it's not love.

And it's so important.

There was a so one of the interesting things when I would work with couples,

Especially,

And they would say,

Well,

I am being kind.

I don't know what she's talking about.

She's just being too sensitive or whatever.

So I had this vision of an exercise and and we can do this all the time if we want to ask ourselves whether what we're doing is loving or not,

Kind or not.

If you imagine you're standing in front of another person and you say something,

Does that other person is what you say,

Does that make the other person energetically or physically take a step back or take a step forward?

Does it draw them towards you?

What you just said or did?

Or does it make them step back?

Because this is the question.

That's the litmus strip.

If we're sitting with someone and let's say,

Like,

Let's say it's hard.

Let's say it's a difficult situation.

Someone's hurt.

There's emotions that have been thrown around.

And you sit with them and you pray or you meditate right there.

I mean,

Meditation to me,

If you're not using it during arguments,

Then I don't know why we're meditating.

They're like,

It's the best.

It's one of the best uses of actually finding a clear space so that we find words that cause this.

If that's our intention,

If our intention is to hurt the other person and drive them away,

Then those are the words that we'll use.

But if our intention is to draw closer,

Sometimes we can even say that and we can say,

I want to find the words that bring us back together,

Just like that man that I was with.

He's like,

I just want us to be in love again.

And it was so interesting because even that alone caused me to go.

You know,

It just softened something inside that said,

OK,

You know,

And I don't remember anything that was said,

But whatever was said slowly.

We started doing this because that's all we wanted.

We knew that this was already too far apart.

What would bring us closer?

So it's a very interesting thing to really know that if we're in a relationship,

But the actions aren't loving.

We just have to ask ourselves if there's love.

And again,

It doesn't have to be a big thing.

That's the problem with relationships is we think that if there is no more love,

Then we failed or it's about us,

Like that it's personal.

You know,

It's not any more personal than when I say to these poor guys that match with me on dating apps that I say,

There's a one percent chance that you and I have actual erotic mojo.

It's obviously not personal because we've never even met.

And it's the same with relationships.

Who knows why the energy,

You know,

I mean,

It's no wonder they used to just put it to the work of the gods.

You know,

One day there's all this incredible energy,

The next day it's gone and you're like,

Where'd it go?

But it's not personal.

It's just it's just what it is.

So I'm going to put my glasses on.

And if you have any questions or comments,

I love to discuss them.

What can help if you have difficulty looking at people with love if they have hurt you?

It's a redefinition of love.

You know,

It's that difference between liking someone and loving someone.

And I imagine that they must have they must have been really hurt in their life to be mean to me.

I can understand them.

I don't have to like them and I don't have to hang out with them and I don't have to put up with nonsense.

But I can look at them with respect that I remember a friend of mine,

Really,

Really,

Really hard life growing up.

One of three daughters,

Mom,

Drugs,

Booze,

Abuse,

Like the girls were just abused beyond measure.

They were like they would she would pick a favorite daughter for the day and then those two would kind of beat up the other girls.

I think it was really,

Really awful.

My friend moved out when she was,

You know,

16 and herself got into a lot of drugs and trouble in the streets and stuff.

And anyway,

So she hated her mom,

Just hated her mom her whole life.

Right.

And she's like almost 60 now.

So then one day her husband,

Ex-husband now,

Her husband got chatting with her mom and found out her mom's story.

And this is kind of disturbing.

So I apologize for telling you this disturbing story.

But so realize my my friend is 58.

So her mom.

So this is her mom we're talking about.

So when her mom,

Who now would be like 90,

Let's say so 90 years ago when her mom was born,

She was the eldest of three children.

And basically those kids never went to school.

They were just kept at home and pimped out by their parents.

And as soon as and for whatever happened,

It got bad enough that the authorities stepped in and realized that at this time there were there's no such thing as children's aid or anything like that.

Right.

So it must have been bad.

So this girl,

My friend's mom was 12 and she'd never really seen anyone except whoever she was being pimped out to.

And when the police came,

She.

Such a disturbing story.

She couldn't speak.

And she was just so frightened.

Right.

So they assumed there was something wrong with her mentally.

And they put her in a sale of a sane asylum for the next 20 years.

Heavily drugged,

Abused,

Like really,

Really bad situation.

So you take this poor little thing,

Put in a sane asylum,

Never known anything but really horrible things.

One of the orderlies.

Falls in love with her.

They leave,

They get married.

She has all these babies,

Doesn't have any idea how it's happening.

And then when the girls were,

I think all the girls were under six years old,

The orderly,

Her husband ran away with the babysitter.

And left her with these babies.

And when my friend heard the story.

She just forgave her.

And she ended up having this beautiful relationship with her mom in her last five,

Six years.

And her mom always wanted to travel to an island.

So my friend took her to an island.

And they had this beautiful reconciliation after a really cruel life.

And my point of the story is,

It's always weird to be angry at people.

And I'm not saying,

Again,

I'm not saying we should ever put up with bad behavior or anything like that.

That's not kindness to me.

We still have to be kind to self.

And there are consequences to people's actions.

But in the land of how do you look at someone with agape,

Not philia,

Not eros,

But agape,

Just non-judgmental human love,

We have to assume that something happened.

We don't know what,

Maybe it's a past life that got them so loaded.

But we can look at them with some kind of greater understanding,

Almost like a bird's eye love.

Right?

Every so often I walk outside and I see these.

We have turkey vultures,

Which sounds awful,

But they look so magnificent flying in the sky.

And whenever I notice them,

The message to me is always,

Rise up,

Katrina.

Get a bigger worldview here.

Look up.

You know,

You're focusing on the minutiae too much.

So that's how I,

That's what really helps me because what really struck me about my friend's story was,

Isn't it curious that we have to know the story before we can forgive?

But what if we assume there is a story,

Whether we know it or not?

And if that lets us have agape,

It's us that feels calmer.

It's our gift to us,

Not to them.

Right?

It's us that feels calmer.

You say we have to try to be nice to partners,

But does it mean to suppress what we feel?

No,

Not understand that everything I'm saying is within choice.

So if someone is not loving to me,

Then I'm going to look at them and I'm going to be aware.

So they don't actually love me.

They may say love because that's what we've been trained to do,

But they don't love me.

They're controlling me.

They're punishing me.

They're giving me the cold shoulder.

Hmm.

I'm going to take that as important information.

You know,

You can't be mean to me and then tell me you love me and then think I'm going to just be,

Oh,

Well,

You said you love me.

So I guess I'll just,

I'll ignore my feelings because my feelings,

Our feelings,

Ideal,

Are what?

That's our truth.

That's that.

That's this.

Right?

If someone does something and I back up,

I'm going to,

I'm going to notice this.

I'm going to go,

Wow,

What's,

You know,

When someone says I didn't hurt you and you're like,

Well,

That's actually not up to you to decide if what you said pushed me back.

It pushed me back whether you like it or not,

You know,

Whether you define it as hurt or not.

So we don't have to be nice to anyone.

And if we're,

It's sort of that thing.

If we're in a relationship and they are mean to us over and over and over and over again and we don't take action and I don't mean hit them or we mean back.

I mean,

If we don't say,

I think we need to go see counseling because this is really dysfunctional.

Well,

I don't want to go to counseling.

Then we really need to look at whether or not we want to be in a relationship any longer.

Like there's no reason to continue to take abuse from someone.

You know what I mean?

Like if we find ourselves in a situation where we have to be nice to them.

Unless unless you live in a culture where women can't leave.

I mean,

That does still exist in the world.

But assuming you live in a culture where we can leave,

It's a very interesting question as to why we we continue to take bad behavior.

Then it really is a question,

A personal question to say.

This is from my childhood.

Why is it OK for people to give me the cold shoulder?

Why is it OK for people to sulk?

Why is it OK for other people to control me through fear and anger?

Then we have to ask ourselves and then we can talk to the other person.

And if they don't want to change,

Then we have to go.

It's possible that our relationship really isn't functional for either of us.

Maybe we need to separate,

You know,

Like it's just it's an important thing to just be really honest about it.

When we have a fear of love,

How can we dissolve this fear with actions?

The best thing,

In my opinion,

Too,

If you have a fear of love,

Is to choose very safe people to be around,

Even friends.

Like a good friend of mine,

I was telling you guys about she's a real part of our family.

And she's the one I told you guys that she was raised by assassins.

That's what she calls them,

People who just were emotional assassins.

And she said,

You know,

Hanging out with my family,

She said it probably took her 15 years before she realized that the other shoe wasn't going to drop.

We were never going to be mean to her.

We were never going to neglect her or not include her or like she was always going to be safe with all of us.

And it took her a long time to get over that fear of love.

How do you get through breakups,

Especially when you love someone so deeply,

But the circumstances don't allow you to stay together?

You cry a lot.

I'm not a machine.

I cry a lot in breakups and I am heartbroken and that's how it is.

You know,

Sometimes I also think that it is interesting,

Even the way you worded it,

Because that's how I feel.

But sometimes,

You know,

You fall so deeply in love.

And for whatever reason,

The circumstances just don't line up.

You know,

Maybe they live in another country,

Maybe you have different belief systems,

Maybe one or both of you are married,

Maybe there's age.

Who knows why this strange soul connection is there,

But the circumstances just aren't.

For me,

I do imagine our soul having a much greater story arc.

You know,

Like when great writers write novels,

It's amazing how they tie things up and how there's all these small stories in each chapter or in each book.

But then there are these greater story arcs that are playing out.

And as you get involved in each individual chapter,

You get so much more invested in the greater story arc,

Right?

In all great TV series,

Books,

Movies,

Everything.

It's the great story arc we get so involved in.

And I feel a lot like that about love.

That these people come along and you are so heart connected.

It might just be a chapter or maybe they've repeated in multiple chapters.

But when the circumstances don't line up,

I don't know,

I just sort of sit back and I think,

Wow,

So we met again,

Did we?

Well,

Then I guess we'll see each other in another time.

And I'm not saying there's no tears.

There's lots of tears and frustration,

But that's when my heart really rests in that thought.

Can you do a talk on why people use sarcasm?

Sarcasm is all about power.

It's all about making sure you realize that you are beneath the other because it's about energy.

And if I can be,

If I can use something I know about you that's just a little vulnerable and then I can add humor,

You are now beneath me.

It's this constant power struggle.

Sarcasm is such a very low,

Low,

Low way of not only controlling others,

But keeping people at a distance.

You could never be tontrically intimate with someone who is sarcastic because they unconsciously are using it to keep you at a distance.

There's a great saying by Kierkegaard and Kierkegaard said,

Is it harder to awaken someone who is asleep than to awaken someone who is asleep but believes they are awake?

And you can obviously apply this to many,

Many things.

But it also applies to sarcasm because like Cindy,

She says here,

You know,

That she's realized that we use it as in family.

If one person is sarcastic,

You better learn to snipe back.

It's a sniper,

Right?

It's this.

How do you keep people at bay?

Right?

And then you become aware of it and you go,

Whoa,

OK,

I don't want to do this anymore.

But for a lot of people who are sarcastic,

They're not that self-aware and they will tell you,

Nothing,

I'm just being silly.

Why are you being so sensitive?

What's wrong with you?

That is the Kierkegaard problem.

That they can't admit to themselves why they're using it and there's nothing you can do about it.

If someone cannot understand that they are asleep,

But it's a sheer power struggle.

That's all it is.

It's just making sure you know where you stand.

I met someone and I can feel my barriers coming up,

Even though he is all kind and loving.

Any suggestions?

Just pray.

Just just sit for me.

These are my words and you guys may have different words.

But for me,

If I was in your position,

Martha,

It's almost like I would have I would I would meditate in this alignment and find my spiritual connection and just know that I'll always be OK.

And then when I meet with them,

I even say to them,

I really think you're kind and wonderful,

But I feel my barriers coming up.

So if I'm a little bit weird,

Just that's all it is.

But I'm telling you because I don't want to have them and I'm working on letting them drop.

You know,

We can really be we can be so vocal about it and very kind about it,

You know.

There's also something interesting about feeling barriers going up that we almost to allow ourselves to live in a gap.

Like I told you guys,

I watched this show Murdoch Mysteries that set back in the now the early nineteen hundreds.

It's interesting to watch people actually court each other like date.

They actually go out for ice cream and dinners and hang out without needing to decide whether or not they're going to be lifelong partners or sexual mates or anything.

And so it almost like allows us to be nervous.

It allows us to actually get to know each other.

It allows us to actually.

Date like it's almost weird that it's like,

Of course,

You have,

Of course,

We have barriers that go up because we don't know this person.

I don't know.

I think it's interesting to actually really slow the bus down and just go out on dates and let's see if we're even friends.

Let's see if there's a gap.

Let's see if there's philia.

Let's let Eras grow.

You know,

There's something we just rush it so much.

It's like,

OK,

Yeah,

I'm a little nervous.

I'm pretty nervous.

Let's take it slow.

So weird like today,

The idea of taking it slow is somehow turned into rejection or something.

I don't know whether it's a some Hollywood slash porn slash.

I don't know what it is,

But it's like,

No,

We can actually get to know each other.

So funny.

I've been married for 20 years to a man.

I fell in love with a woman,

But I'm so fearful for the next step.

We've been seeing each other for two years.

My husband knows and is so angry and spiteful,

But won't let go.

He's always been somewhat high strung since we had children.

I guess I need to get over my fears.

He isn't ready to let go,

But constantly jabs at me.

I just don't know what to do.

Well,

I think you might know what to do.

You just it's just a new step,

New chapter.

And again,

For me,

Meditation,

Spirituality,

All these things are a very hands on tool.

The reason we talk about spirituality,

The reason we meditate is to be able to listen within and hear guidance.

And so in a situation like this,

That's difficult,

Especially if there's children and multiple loves and all these entanglements,

That is when we must meditate the most.

Right.

That we sit quietly.

We allow the chaos to become quiet.

And that may be for you all kinds of things.

It could be going for a run.

It could be being in the woods.

It could be being by water.

It could be meditation.

It could be ecstatic dance.

It could be all kinds of things.

It could be getting a massage.

I've had the greatest revelations during massage.

Depending on who the massage masseuse was,

Nothing kinky,

Just sometimes you're allowed to process and to hear the next step.

Whatever that next step is,

You know that we just get enough light for the step we're on.

And then we have faith and we take that next step.

Then we let the dust settle.

We take the next step.

That to me is what a spiritual journey is.

It applies to exactly the situation that you're in right now.

How do I make the right choices that are good for everybody?

That's why we're having these conversations,

Right?

That's why we're doing it.

The answers are right there.

I have a fear of love and at the same time a crave for it.

I've never truly been in love and I want to experience it so badly,

But at the same time I'm scared.

It's so scary to put yourself out there and be vulnerable.

I'm in the process of learning to love myself in a pretty good place right now.

So I'm afraid I would lose myself if I met someone special.

So what should I do?

Stay alone or try to date?

I'm trying to hear myself and my intuition,

But it's difficult.

Okay,

This is only my thought.

There's probably all kinds of great ideas out there.

But personally,

If you found someone and you fell in love,

Then dive in.

Just dive in.

And if you've never lost yourself in someone,

Then lose yourself in someone.

These are things in my experience and my thought that can't be learned.

We can't just learn it out of a book and then be perfect.

The whole point is the swim.

The whole point is the diving in and the vulnerability and the joy and the tears.

That's the point.

You go into it with the intention that,

You know what,

I just want to have love and I want to have fun.

I want to have joy.

I want to dive in.

And to know that you have your own back.

That you are going to watch for signs and you're going to watch for yellow flags.

It doesn't have to become a red flag.

It can be a yellow flag.

And you go,

Hey,

What's going on here?

Right?

Losing yourself in love is fun,

You know,

But it's a natural fear.

Like for example,

On the flip side of that,

I have a lot of friends who have been married for a long time.

They know that there are codependent tendencies.

And they stay single because they know that they're not ready to be in another relationship without becoming codependent.

So they need to spend more time in love with self,

Enjoying the world.

Right?

There's something amazing about being in love with the world.

You're in love with the sky and the ocean and friends and great coffee.

Now when you fall in love with someone else and it doesn't work out,

You go,

Well,

At least I have great friends and great coffee.

I still get to experience love.

Like,

You know what I mean?

So we don't get codependent.

But oh,

To be vulnerable and in love?

I don't know.

For me,

But I'm a big romantic suck.

So take it with a grain of salt.

Anything I say about that.

Self-sabotage pattern when we are getting in love.

How to lessen the self-sabotage.

It's such a personal thing.

You know,

One of the interesting things in when I was writing about my in my book about love,

There's this whole section about self-love.

And I know we talk about this all the time,

But the self-love really is that thing,

Right?

That if we look at agape,

Philia,

Eros,

And we ask ourselves,

Do I have that for me?

And if we're self-sabotaging,

Then we probably don't.

Oh,

Thank you guys so much.

Right?

We don't,

We aren't loving,

We aren't loving self.

If we're actually self-sabotaging,

Then we're saying you don't deserve love.

They're not really going to like you.

You just wait till they really get to know you.

You just wait till they see you on a bad day.

You just wait till they meet your family.

You just wait till then they're not going to love you.

So we may as well just not be like preemptive strike.

But this is a real question of self-love.

Right?

Bottom line is if I'm dating you and you find out something about me you don't like,

Good.

Thank goodness we got that out of the way.

Or if you're not going to like me because you don't like my family,

Good.

I'm so glad.

I don't want someone hanging out with me who has some kind of weird judgment about me or is sarcastic with me or is going to,

Like,

That's ridiculous.

Like,

Why would I do that to myself?

I really love me.

That's why we write books.

It's for healing the author.

You know?

And I actually really mean that.

Because every time I've ever written a book I've always begun with sort of life experiences and then things I've studied.

But what glues it together is what I need to learn.

It's almost what comes in for me.

How do I sew up the experiences I've had with what I've learned,

With what I've read,

With what I've,

You know,

Learned from others?

And that idea of self-love that agape,

Philia,

Eros all applies to self as well was mind-blowing for me when I wrote Tantric Intimacy.

Because at first when I started writing the chapter I was like,

Pfft,

That's dumb.

And I realized,

No,

If I can have self-respect,

If I can respect my own journey,

Which means sometimes I make mistakes,

Whatever that might look like.

Sometimes I dive headlong into love and I end up getting hurt.

Awesome.

That's what my soul was here for,

Right?

I'm all the better for it.

You know,

To be kind to self,

To stop that voice in my head that says,

See,

Nanananananana.

To have philia,

To have my own back.

To know that I can count on me,

To walk away if someone's being a jerk.

To know that I can say no,

That I can,

That's pretty awesome for me to have philia for self.

And to have eros for self.

It's like,

Yeah,

I think I'm awesome.

Like,

To even be allowed to say that,

That was a real journey for me.

Because,

You know,

We're not supposed to say that.

That's like,

That's very conceited of you,

Isn't it?

But then I realized that when I was super feeling very erotic with someone,

That was me feeling erotic.

So if I actually just sit here and I actually go into that space,

If some beautiful human walked in and I was all aroused,

That's me.

That's my eros.

And I'm like,

Wow,

I have that whether or not you're in the room or not.

Right?

Self love's a huge deal.

It's a huge deal.

So then suddenly,

If I have all this eros for me,

I have all this philia for me,

I have all this agape for me,

If you want to be in my life and we want to play and have some fun together,

Then we'd better be playing and having some fun together.

And if you kind of go,

Well,

I don't really like this about you,

It's like,

Awesome.

It's been great.

And,

You know,

It's awesome.

Thank you guys so much for being here.

And I hope you have a wonderful day or a wonderful evening.

Thanks so much.

We'll see you later.

Reviews

This has been so illuminating & inspiring to listen to! It has given me clarity on so many things in my life…Thank you so much, & blessings to you 🙏🏼✨💫

So insightful❣️♾️☯️⚛️⚘️☄️
Thank you so kindly❣️✨️☄️
Namaste🙏🏼✨️🪔🖤🌸⚘️☄️

Love that you set your laugh free!
Thank you for your thoughts.

So many great ideas in this🙏🙏

❤️❤️❤️

So beautiful..so needed..

Powerful and insightful words as a meditation about our lives! Thank you so much, Katrina!

Grateful for your warmth, the experiences and knowledge and gifts you share, and your laughter. I so enjoy your talks!! ✌🏼 💕