Unknowable & Known: Radiance Sutras Verse 104

During this session, we discuss Verse 104 of the Yukti Verses from the 'Radiance Sutras', a translation of the Vijanana Bhairava Tantra by Lorin Loche. A meditation follows our discussion.

These sessions are recorded on a weekly basis, and all are welcome.

Transcript

So today we are reading from the Radiant Sutras and this is a beautiful book by Lauren Roche and it is an interpretation of an ancient tantric text called the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra.

Tantra in its foundational goal is for all of us to remember and integrate our divinity,

Our infinite self.

It's a really easy concept to say that ah yes I am a energy being in a physical body or I am made of stardust.

Like you know it's easy to say things,

It's easy to be very poetic about it.

But what's interesting especially to me is how does this change our life?

How does this change how we interact with people?

How does it change you know how Davey's going for surgery for his wisdom teeth?

How does it change that?

How does it change any anxiety we might have or ideas about work or paying rent or family of origin issues or like the things that we really struggle with?

How does this journey help with that?

Because bottom line that's the point right?

Like we can have all the affirmations we want and we can say all the right things but if we aren't actually happy what are we doing?

So this book is a series of sutras and each sutra,

Each verse,

Gives us one exercise or one realization to play with.

To go out in the world and play with it.

You know one of the things that really stands out about tantra,

I mean it's the same in all spiritual traditions really,

But the most important thing is to take an idea and then actually try it out.

Like to really apply it because the teaching is maybe five percent of the experience.

Whatever you ever may gain from studying tantra or practicing tantra,

To just listen to it and not actually do it,

We are literally getting five percent of the whole situation.

But it's when we get a chance to actually try it out,

It's like other things fill in the gaps behind us.

Like suddenly we just have an experience that you know it's like the difference between watching people scuba dive on the nature channel.

You can learn some interesting facts about scuba diving and see beautiful fish,

Recordings of beautiful fish and experiences and stuff,

But it is nothing like scuba diving.

Right,

It's not remotely the same experience.

To actually strap on the gear and actually go down into the water yourself,

Just imagine how much more multifaceted that experience is.

From the curiosity,

To the fear,

To the amazement,

To the water,

To the sound,

To the lack of sound,

To the oneness with God you may feel.

It is not describable.

It cannot be written about and you can't get it from watching people do it.

And tantra is very much the same.

We hear a teaching,

Maybe it clicks for us in the same way that someone might say,

Well have you ever thought of scuba diving?

And maybe someone says,

Not really,

I have no interest in it.

And someone else says,

Yeah there's something about that that's kind of calling me.

I'd like to try.

And they begin the journey.

It's the same with tantra.

You hear something and you think,

I don't even know if I can do it right now,

But that seems right.

So that's really the point.

So these sutras,

What's going to happen is I'm going to read,

We are reading number 104 today,

And then we're going to contemplate it,

And we're going to discuss it,

And talk about how to bring it into our lives.

Then we'll do a short meditation at the end.

And the voice of one who experienced it is louder than felt.

What's kind of like the transmission,

Right?

Like when someone's speaking of something they've experienced,

If you really pay attention,

There's a part of you that sort of vibrates with the experience.

My best friend and I went to the Boston Aquarium yesterday,

Feeling the energy of the penguins,

Seals,

Sea lions,

Turtles.

It was awakening me,

A connection to nature.

Oh that's awesome.

All right,

You guys ready?

Let's all close our eyes for a moment.

Breathe deeply.

Let's just take another deep breath in,

And exhale.

Holiness permeates everywhere.

Senses cannot grasp it.

Images cannot represent it.

It is totally free,

Free to appear as form,

Free to be beyond form.

Heart and body and mind in unison attend to the unimaginable.

In the intercourse of unknowable and known,

An awakening will be born in you as you join with that reality which you already are.

Where does that take you?

Or what emotions do you feel?

Or what thoughts roll through your head when you hear that?

It is within us and beautiful to me.

Union.

We are already that which we are seeking.

It feels bratty and expansive.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

I didn't know if I was just like not up on the new terms or something,

Because that's really possible.

Unity,

Freedom,

That I'm perfect without knowing.

Maybe there's something subconscious coming out.

So the interesting thing about this sutra is what they're talking about is embracing God,

Holiness,

Bhairava,

Brahman,

Allah,

Whatever you consider oneness,

God to be,

Whatever we come from,

Whatever the essence of life is,

You know,

What's underneath this?

What created this?

What's animating this?

What's,

You know,

What's going on?

And very often when we're on this spiritual path,

We wish we could understand,

Like,

What's it all about?

When they say that we are all one,

What does that mean?

And it's interesting how,

You know,

The big religions always said,

Do not name me,

Do not make graven images of me,

Do not whatever.

So then we just fly ahead and name them and make graven images and make descriptions.

And then we fight about it,

Because that's not how I see it.

And that's not how I see it.

And that's not how I want to see it.

And that's not what I was taught.

And that's not,

You know.

But what this sutra is all about is,

It's an impossible thing to describe anyway.

And yet,

There is something in us that does understand,

That is able to fathom it.

But it can't be done in words.

It can't be done in ideas.

And it can't be done with our intellect.

And it can't be compared to something else.

And this is very disturbing.

We want to understand,

We want to know,

We want to,

You know,

It's that how come bad things happen and good things?

And what's the difference?

And how could God allow this?

And how does this world make sense?

Like,

It's,

You know,

We seek these answers.

But the problem is that we have defined whatever that energy is,

As being good,

Bad,

Vindictive,

Punishing,

Whatever,

The destroyer.

And then all of a sudden,

We look at the world around us,

And this doesn't line up.

This doesn't make any sense.

And now we're angry,

Or we give up on God,

Consciousness,

Spirit,

Whatever that is for you.

So this sutra is basically asking us to go beyond the constructs.

How do you describe all of this without any objects?

So often we want to imagine,

You know,

In the West here,

Anyway,

We want to imagine God as sort of the ultimate human.

So we personify God,

God is loving,

Kind,

Or punishing,

Or it's sort of whatever you imagine,

Or even the gods of Greece,

You know,

We have all these personifications of it.

But of course,

None of this is even close to the truth.

So we try to use objects of color,

God is blue,

God is this,

God is white,

God is,

You know,

And it's like,

None of those are true.

And just like Cher,

Knowing it keeps you from seeing it.

Exactly.

The big old guy with the flowing white robe.

Exactly.

So what's interesting about this,

From a tantric perspective,

Is let's imagine for a moment that it was okay to not understand.

What if we let go of having to know?

The challenge is that however we understand this consciousness,

Is that everything that we do know comes from it.

So the five elements,

Earth,

Air,

Wind,

Fire,

Ether,

Water,

They come from this energy.

So you can't describe it using anything created of the primary elements of creation.

So there's nothing,

We have nothing to describe it as.

So what if that was a good thing?

What if that was wonderful?

What if we actually got out of our addiction to having to be able to understand everything?

I'm really passionate about the merging of the masculine and feminine.

Well,

The masculine is what we would call the known world,

What we know,

What we can describe.

The feminine is what we don't know.

It's kind of like when they talk about the sun or the dark side of the moon,

The part we can't see.

We don't know what's going on there.

And we have been taught to be very uncomfortable with the unknown.

And it's just something to think about,

How much we've been taught that,

Oh,

You want to figure it out.

Smart people figure things out.

It's a sign of intelligence and wisdom to know all the things,

Be very well spoken about all the things.

But what if when we are describing things like God,

Bhairava,

Consciousness,

The quantum field,

Whatever it is,

What if the more we think we need to know,

The less chance we have of ever actually experiencing it?

What if embracing the unknown allows us to experience it?

So then personally,

We have some work to do.

Because imagine in our lives,

And again,

We don't need to necessarily look at it from the God perspective.

Because that's all great,

But that's just philosophy.

Because it's unknowable,

It's unfathomable,

It's ineffable,

All those words that mean you can't describe it.

So how do you take this great teaching and bring it right down into life?

How comfortable are we not knowing?

So I'd love to know,

What are some of the big questions that we really want to know the answers to in our lives?

Not universal questions,

Like in our personal lives.

Why was I born to that person?

Why did I have this experience?

Like what are some of the questions that you guys know of,

That you personally ask,

Or you hear other people ask,

Or whatever?

And the questions that,

For all intents and purposes,

We don't get good answers for.

What's next?

It's a great one.

What's my purpose now?

What are the questions that just chew on us?

Especially ones from the past.

What is the next move I'm meant to take?

What is truth?

Am I meant to be doing one thing over another?

Why is this happening to me?

Why am I like this?

What is real?

Got to be careful.

The feel is real and the why is a lie.

What do I really enjoy?

Why did I let them go?

Thank you guys so much.

Why do I feel this way?

Is this the life I was meant to live?

So what if we took all of these questions and allowed them to be unknowns?

There is a Chinese folklore tale,

The Boy and the Ox.

The more the boy tries to catch the ox,

The more the ox runs and hides.

But when the boy sits down and accepts the nature of the ox,

The ox comes up and lays down next to him.

That's a great one.

So what if we just looked at all these big questions and we just honestly said to ourselves,

There are some things I'm not meant to know.

There are some things that are unknowable.

So then what would happen in all these questions?

So even something like,

What do I love to do?

Or what is my next step in life?

What if you actually said to yourself,

I'm not meant to understand this.

I'm not meant to have it all planned out.

You know,

There's that great saying that all I need is just enough light for the step I'm on.

So what we would do then is really fully live in this moment.

If we say to ourselves,

If we actually have,

Let's say the tantric philosophy within that says,

Well,

I'm not meant to know.

It's beyond my comprehension anyway.

Something relaxes inside of us.

And there's a peace in there.

There's a quiet in there.

And in that quiet,

Answers come.

And again,

The key is that the question really becomes,

What am I doing right now?

And it allows us to fully live in this moment.

And then what happens as soon as we start living fully in this moment,

The next step appears.

So it's a very interesting idea to first simply imagine that maybe I don't understand it.

And I say that because it's sort of a foundation for the rest of the exercise.

Because if we think,

If we go through this exercise of trying to understand Bhairava,

Trying to understand God,

And we think we're going to get a neat little sentence that's going to describe it.

It's not true.

And it's going to take us off our path.

So let's say that we have now accepted that,

You know what?

Some things are not meant to be known.

And by not knowing,

Everything will be revealed.

But I don't have to understand it.

Life will just turn the dials.

And I'm okay with that.

So the next step becomes,

You know,

Let's,

Because we do want to know,

Like we do want to understand the truth.

We do want to understand what this world's all about.

There's nothing wrong with this question.

So the next step is saying,

Okay,

Well,

What isn't it?

If I'm trying to understand God,

Or I'm trying to understand consciousness.

So you sort of go through,

Well,

It's not this,

And it's not that,

And it's not this,

And it's not that.

And you kind of go through all of those when it's not.

And you kind of left kind of empty.

And then you might say,

Well,

Do I have any experiences that I can compare it to?

You know,

Even things like if you've ever climbed to the top of a mountain,

And stood there surrounded by space and quiet,

And there's a feeling inside of you,

And a part of you wonders,

Does it feel like that?

Or maybe there's another part of you that remembers the last lovely bath you took,

And you were lying in the tub,

And you were so perfectly held and happy.

Does it feel like that?

And Friday night,

We went out to a local restaurant,

Bar,

Whatever you want to call it.

And we were sitting there eating nachos.

And there was a great musician on a piano with a guitarist.

And they're just singing all the oldies.

And I was just sitting there,

And I looked at William,

And I was like,

This is pure heaven.

And it was just sitting,

Eating nachos at a bar listening to great music.

Does whatever this is feel like that?

And then the third thing we do when we try to understand this is we try to intuit it,

Right?

We try to use our intuition.

And so maybe this is when we sit in meditation.

We breathe deeply.

We release everything that we're thinking about.

Maybe we try to remember a comfortable moment to try to find our peace when we're meditating.

And then we just ask,

What does it feel like?

What is God?

What is the truth?

What is consciousness?

And maybe a feeling flows through you,

Or an awareness.

But the crazy thing is,

The first step is to know that it won't come in words.

It'll be an experience.

It'll be literally a knowing.

In the thing here it says,

Heart and body and mind in unison.

Attend to the unimaginable.

In the intercourse of unknowable and known,

An awakening will be born in you as you join with that reality,

Which you already are.

In the intercourse of unknowable and known,

An awakening will be born in you as you join with that reality,

Which you already are.

And this is very important to know that this reality we're trying to touch,

It's already us.

Like it isn't something outside of us.

And it's us,

Regardless of our circumstances,

Regardless of our health,

Regardless of our age,

Regardless of all the things we think make such a difference.

It's always us.

All we have to do is sort of get rid of all the ideas that whatever it is that makes us up,

That we can find it through understanding it through physical form.

I want to give one more example.

There's a word in it that says bodhi sambhava.

Bodhi is blossoming,

Expanding.

Sambhava is the union,

Togetherness,

That kind of thing.

So it literally means to come into intimacy with pure consciousness.

To come into intimacy with pure consciousness.

Can you imagine that?

Can you imagine like walking down the road,

And you've been contemplating this for a while now,

Right?

Let's say this is a few days from now,

And you've been thinking about this essence that is within all things that I cannot describe.

And then you decide to go for a walk,

Because it's a beautiful day,

And you're walking under some lovely tree branches,

And you take a deep breath in,

And all of a sudden you feel one with everything around you.

You fully embrace that you can't explain it.

You don't really understand it,

But you can feel it.

And you know that you are the same somehow,

Or that we are all made of the same pieces.

And there's just something about it that makes you go,

And you come into full intimacy with the world around you.

And again,

To imagine like how is this practical?

How does this help us in life?

So now imagine,

Let's imagine you have a romantic partner,

And you are lying in bed together,

And you're staring into each other's eyes.

There's a lot of things that you know about this person.

Lots of things you know about this person,

Or else you wouldn't be in relationship with them.

But imagine,

There is even more about this person that you will never understand.

And not only that you can't understand,

Or that you don't understand,

But you can't understand.

They are actually this literally multi-dimensional,

Infinite being with experiences and life,

Maybe for thousands of years,

Maybe in multiple dimensions in different galaxies.

But this being is in front of you right now in this form,

And you are interacting with them.

So there's a part of you that interacts with the parts you know.

But what if you always have in the back of your mind,

Their infinite self,

The part of them you'll never fully grasp.

Imagine that with children.

Here you have a child,

And you stare into the eyes of this child,

And you're like,

There are things I know about you,

But there are infinite things I'll never know about you.

How differently do we treat each other then?

Like how would that affect you in your interactions with people,

In your interactions with even family members,

Especially difficult ones.

Imagine if we really embraced that.

We embraced the known parts,

And we embraced maybe the 95% of them,

Or 99% of them that is unknown.

How different would our relationships be?

And again,

You can imagine that this isn't really easy.

This isn't an easy.

.

.

It just doesn't happen overnight.

We spend some time thinking about it.

We spend some time pondering it.

I think for a lot of people,

This is why we love going into nature.

Because we don't need to understand it.

It's even better if you don't know the names of anything.

Because as soon as we know the names,

We're walking through and our brain is going,

Ah,

Crocus,

Ah,

Redwing Blackbird,

Ah.

And even then,

Do you ever find it funny how here we have Redwing Blackbirds?

No.

Is that what they're called?

Yeah.

They're literally black birds with a little bit of red on their wing.

All we need is to say that,

And we don't look at the bird anymore because we've named it.

You know,

You see some beautiful rock face and you go,

Ah,

Yes,

That is a mixture of granite and slate and obviously,

You know,

Sedimentary rock from the prehistoric.

It's like,

Just because we've named it,

We think,

Ah,

Yes,

I know something here.

But we've missed the bigger experience because we're not feeling it,

Right?

We're not knowing it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't learn anything about nature.

I'm just It's an interesting thing to let all that go and just experience nature.

And we do that with people too.

Exactly.

I'm often glad I don't know the names of nature things.

But it's just interesting to notice the boxes that we have for everything.

Even silly things like saying,

Today was a good day,

Or today was a bad day,

Or I had a bad sleep,

Or I had a good sleep,

Or I had this,

I had that.

You know,

It's like,

Sometimes,

You know,

I have friends who are very interesting and more connected to their multidimensionality than I am.

And one friend,

She said,

You know,

I haven't really been having very restful sleeps lately,

Because I think I'm working in other realms.

The truth is,

We don't even know why we don't sleep or we don't wake up rested.

We don't know why we do or why we don't or why anything.

So it's an interesting thing.

And again,

In the Sutra,

It's a dance between the known and the unknown.

We don't have to throw out the known.

That's not it.

We need to just simply remember that there is also a juicy unknown attached to every single thing we know.

Then how interesting does life become?

It's like we want to connect,

We want to know someone,

Something,

We're just going about it the wrong way.

It's interesting because the naming of things is the result of somebody else being curious,

Exploring the thing and then naming it.

And again,

Sometimes it's obviously,

It's brilliant to name things,

To say,

Oh,

Have you seen a robin yet this year?

No,

I haven't seen a robin,

Right?

Like,

It's not,

It's not wrong to do it.

But the problem is,

When we see a robin and we look at it and say,

Oh,

It's a robin,

And we stop looking at it,

At this creature,

You imagine,

I think about this a lot,

Actually,

When I walk and I see trees,

Because trees are like magical creations.

When you really think of it,

This amazing kind of manifestation that has roots that flow down into the earth.

And then it comes up into this beautiful multi-layered,

I don't even want to say trunk,

Right?

I mean,

To be able to say it's got this multi-layer of hardness and wood and animals live in it and sap runs through it and it's all different colors and there's bark and then those go up into the sky and they reach up into the heavens and then leaves form,

These beautiful little things that are green in color,

And they collect sunlight and they create photosynthesis.

They're actually miraculous things.

But instead,

There is a danger in trees and in life to walk along going,

Ah,

Poplar.

Oh,

Birch tree.

Oh,

Look at that spruce tree.

Again,

It's nothing wrong,

There's nothing wrong with having the name because when I say them,

It helps to communicate to you what I'm saying.

But what if we miss all the juicy unknown that's attached to those trees or that those trees are?

Let's close our eyes.

We'll do a little meditation.

So,

Wherever you are,

Sitting up,

Lying down,

Pretending to be at work,

Wherever you are,

Just close your eyes.

Let's just breathe deeply.

Expanding the belly as we inhale,

Contracting as we exhale.

And in your mind's eye,

Let's imagine you're sitting on a park bench,

Outside in a beautiful area,

And your eyes are looking at everything around you.

Maybe there are trees,

A lake,

The sky,

Birds,

Grass,

Rocks.

And you wonder,

What makes all of these beautiful things?

So,

You deeply look at all of them,

And then you close your eyes.

And you imagine,

Well,

Whatever it is,

Isn't actually a rock,

Because it made the rock.

So,

It's not a rock.

It's not a tree.

It's not the air.

It's not the grass.

It's not the ground.

It's not this bench I'm sitting on.

It's not earth or water.

It's not fire.

It's not ether.

It's not emotion.

It's not thought.

It's not good.

It's not bad.

There's this emptiness,

This void that's left.

Some call it shunya.

And imagine just staying in this void,

And it's comfortable.

You're breathing a little bit deeper.

Just feeling into this deep quiet.

And as you feel into it,

You realize that your body feels like this.

This is a familiar void.

This is a familiar feeling.

It's not really your body.

But it's like it's running through your body,

At your essence.

Maybe it's also the essence of the trees,

And the rocks,

And the grass.

So,

You breathe a little bit deeper,

Feeling this essence,

This void,

All around you.

All around you,

And within you.

You become very comfortable with no names,

No descriptions.

And the more comfortable you become,

You sink into it even deeper.

It's so peaceful.

YAT AVEDYAM YAT AGRAH YAM YAT SHUNYAM YAT ABHAGAVAKAM TAT SARVAM BAIRAVAM BAVYAM TAD ANTE BUDDHA SAMBHAVA Holiness permeates everywhere.

Senses cannot grasp it.

Images cannot represent it.

It is totally free.

Free to appear as form.

Free to be beyond form.

Heart and body and mind in unison attend to the unimaginable.

In the intercourse of unknowable and known,

An awakening will be born in you,

As you join with that reality which you already are.

Let's take a deep breath in together.

And exhale.

We'll open our eyes and come back together.

And thank you so much for being here,

And I hope you have a wonderful day.

Reviews

Thank you, Katrina for another amazing talk. I absolutely loved it! I haven’t been able to make your 10 in the morning classes and I really miss them and now that I heard this talk I really really really miss them! So I’m just gonna have to listen to all of your talks until I can make the next class!❤️❤️❤️ and thankfully, I have found that sacred oneness and it came through lots and lots of yoga. I just wish I could feel it every single day!