Nonbeing & Being: The Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 2, Verses 16-17

Join us as we explore the Bhagavad Gita. This week, we will be diving into Chapter 2, verses 16-17. In these weekly lectures, we focus on specific ancient teachings that we can all apply to our day-to-day lives and personal spiritual journey!

Transcript

So today we are looking at the Bhagavad Gita.

We are specifically reading chapter 2,

Verses 16 and 17.

I'm reading from Stephen Mitchell's Bhagavad Gita,

And it's a lovely one.

I kind of like all of Stephen Mitchell's translations,

But you can follow along in any Bhagavad Gita version.

It doesn't really matter.

Any version you love,

It's all wonderful.

So let's dive in.

Arjuna and Krishna are on the chariot.

Arjuna is desperately seeking some kind of meaning in life,

Some kind of understanding about how he came to this place.

How did he come to the place where he is now at battle with his family,

Or we look within.

How do we handle the battle within,

Between our senses and our courage,

And how do we handle this?

This is so confusing.

And the verses from here on in are all teachings from Krishna to Arjuna.

So going back a bit,

And all of these verses we've already done classes,

You can always listen to them in the playlist.

So Krishna says,

Never was there a time when I did not exist or you,

Or these kings,

Nor will there come a time when we cease to be.

Just as in this body the self passes through childhood,

Youth,

And old age,

So after death it passes to another body.

Physical sensations,

Cold and heat,

Pleasure and pain,

Are transient.

They come and go,

So bear them patiently,

Arjuna.

Only the man who is unmoved by any sensations,

The wise man,

Indifferent to pleasure,

To pain,

Is fit for becoming deathless.

So these two are the verses we're going to look at.

Non-being can never be.

Being can never not be.

Both of these statements are obvious to those who have seen the truth.

The presence that pervades the universe is imperishable,

Unchanging,

Beyond both is and is not.

How could it ever vanish?

So I'm just going to reread those two passages.

Non-being can never be.

Being can never not be.

Both these statements are obvious to those who have seen the truth.

The presence that pervades the universe is imperishable,

Unchanging,

Beyond both is and is not.

How could it ever vanish?

So I actually want to first look at the first two lines there.

That non-being can never be and being can never not be.

And I want to read to you what the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi says about this.

Because this kind of blew my mind.

He said,

Ultimate reality never changes.

The unreal is always changing.

That which changes has no substance,

No real existence.

I'm going to read that again and then I'm going to ask about what you feel about that.

Ultimate reality never changes.

The unreal is always changing.

That which changes has no substance,

No real existence.

What comes to you when you hear that?

My thoughts or emotions or words?

Because it's quite central to everything we're going to talk about today.

God,

Consciousness,

Insincerity.

Then what is real that doesn't change?

Good question.

Being and non-being sounds like a course in miracles.

Nothing real can ever be threatened.

Nothing unreal can exist.

It reminds me of the Tao and the 10,

000 things.

Eternal,

Impermanence,

Confused.

Good morning.

People who keep changing are not to be trusted.

The impermanent has no reality.

Impermanence,

Non-clinging.

It's confusing.

How some people use non-real to control others.

The real is an anchor foundation.

I change all the time so I fear not to exist.

Does it matter who defines the real?

Survival mode.

So the Maharishi Mahesh goes on to say he has slightly different language for for all things but that the omnipresent being,

Whatever you understand that to be,

And the soul,

The spirit inside of each of us are the same.

They're not different.

They're the same essence.

The only reason they appear differently in each of us,

And I found his language so interesting,

He said,

Because of our different nervous systems.

Isn't that interesting?

To think that everybody here has the same essence,

That same divine,

Omnipresent,

God-like essence,

But it's hard to recognize because it shows up so differently in everybody.

And he said our nervous system,

Which I think is fascinating because this is our nervous system,

Is what animates us.

It's our brain.

It's how we sense the world around us.

You know,

Like whether I feel this touch or I feel a hit,

It's my nervous system telling me that.

It's my brain.

It's all that kind of thing.

And so everything shows up differently.

I think of the word surreal which was rooted in the art movement in the 1930s.

It meant above and beyond real.

I am.

Everything else doesn't matter.

I change all the time so I am not real or unreal.

I just am.

Does our ancestry affect our nervous system?

There's a lot of theories around how our ancestry affects our nervous system.

I don't know exactly what's true,

But like in epigenetics,

They'll say that we experience everything that our mother and our grandmother experienced because we were essentially in our mother's womb as an egg and then as a very small essence inside of our mother as an egg inside of our grandmother.

So that would certainly affect our nervous system.

And then they talk about ancestral trauma,

Ancestral giftings,

And ancestral.

.

.

And that also comes through,

Which would make sense.

It's a great question.

I used to hold on to my thoughts,

Feelings,

Ideas so tightly because I thought they were unique and defined me.

Feels good to let them change,

Evolve,

And go.

And then I feel more connected.

Oh,

That's beautiful,

Sadie.

Thank you.

The human part of us,

The illusion of separateness.

I work every day to help parents see their kids' behaviors through the lens of the nervous system.

Wow,

I've never thought of the nervous system as what controls our life language.

I've always thought it was our conditioning that affected our way of acting in the world.

Children of nervous mothers tend to be nervous until they start healing totally.

So a regulated nervous system could be still be different for individuals in the sense regulated is not the ultimate somehow.

Well,

And the thing is,

Like,

And again,

I don't know exactly what the Maharishi meant.

So I'm sort of just allowing us to kind of play with it in our minds.

You know,

What does that mean for you?

And,

You know,

What does that mean for me?

And because I don't know,

He may have said something very different later.

But what intrigued me about the idea of the nervous system was the idea that we are all energy.

We're made of energy.

And the nervous system is essentially our electrical system.

So it's kind of what coordinates how we light up,

How we work.

I mean,

And it's very likely completely interconnected with our pranic system and meridians and everything.

So it's a great question.

I don't have a good answer.

I'm just it's something that just really intrigued me a lot.

And the context of what he was saying,

Too,

Was he said that so you take all of us,

Like,

Say there's 160 people here.

You take all of these people,

All of us with our various nervous systems.

Just go with his nervous system idea.

And what he says,

He says,

The sun is just the sun.

But when the sun shines on a lake,

It looks different than when it shines on a wall or when it shines through the rain.

Or if it shines on your face,

Like the sun appears differently depending on what it's shining on.

Which is so interesting when we think of how different we all are and how it's hard to fathom that we're all made of this divine essence.

But the sun is different depending on what material it shines on.

You know,

But it's still the sun.

How is to live and feel all the time that I am not alive,

That I keep floating on top of the world that doesn't represent me.

I don't know where I need to be.

We'll talk about that,

Sylvia.

I actually think of you and the stories you share about your first marriage and life on the farm and then finding a spiritual teacher and changing all of it.

What is actually permanent?

What is creation?

Exactly.

So one of the interesting applications of this kind of speaks to Sylvia's point and what a lot of people have said.

When you think of us,

What is real,

Impermanent,

And what isn't real?

Always changing.

Well,

Our bodies are always changing.

So for all intents and purposes,

They are a constant flux.

The body is a constant flux.

My reputation,

What people think of me.

You know,

And I don't mean necessarily like,

Oh wow,

People think you're horrible.

But when I was 14,

People might have thought I was a little know-it-all.

And when I was 25 on the farm living beside my in-laws,

I was considered a raging feminist.

And I might be considered something now.

And I remember,

Was it three years ago I ran for town council?

I think it was almost three years ago I ran for town council.

And you know,

The funny thing is,

Because it felt like such a calling,

Because I'm not a political person by any means.

But I felt so called to run.

So I did it.

I put up signs with my picture and inspirational quotes on them.

I didn't do much.

I didn't try,

To be honest.

I didn't take,

I didn't have a team of people.

We didn't go door to door.

I really didn't take it seriously because I thought I was,

I thought I had it in the bag.

I thought this was like God sanctioned or something.

I was like,

I am meant to be on town council,

Obviously.

And in my own little world,

I just thought this was a shoo-in.

Well,

One of my friends was running for mayor.

And we were sitting chit-chatting,

You know,

Having dinner or something.

And he says to me,

Well,

I don't know who's going to get on this council.

And he starts rhyming off the people who are definitely going to get on council.

Well,

Like this person,

This person,

This person.

And he didn't say me.

I was like,

Well,

What about me?

And he goes,

Oh,

You're a hippie.

You're a complete wild card.

And I didn't get on.

But it was like,

It was just funny.

And there may come a time that I'm 90,

And my reputation is,

Oh,

Well,

That's just grandma.

She's crazy.

You know,

Just let her,

Let her talk,

You know,

Just then she'll get back to her jigsaw puzzles.

You know,

Like,

That changes what people think of us.

That is so fluid.

It's insane.

Our bank account,

Very fluid.

What we do for a living,

Very fluid.

This is not necessarily what we would call a real thing in the context of this.

And when I say real and non-real,

The actual Sanskrit is sat and asat.

So ah,

When they put ah in front of something,

It just means not.

So sat is reality.

You know,

We often talk about,

Like in Kundalini Yoga,

We chant sat naam,

That I honor the truth or I bow to the truth.

Reality is truth.

Reality.

Asat is non-reality.

And in this meaning,

In this essence,

And I know the language is kind of hard,

I think,

In English,

But it's like,

What is reality?

And they are defining reality as that which doesn't change.

That which is eternal.

Everything else is in flux.

Okay,

So it doesn't mean that your friend isn't real.

You know what I mean?

One analogy they give is like the ocean.

The ocean is the essence.

And on top of the ocean,

There are waves.

The ocean exists whether there are waves or not.

But the waves do not exist without ocean.

The ocean exists whether it's calm or stormy.

And this is what they're talking about.

The eternal is the ocean.

Everything else is waves.

It comes and goes.

So if we can figure out within ourselves what isn't real,

Which is asat,

What is real?

Our character,

Kindness,

Courage,

That meditative center,

Awareness,

Your value,

Your connection to nature,

Your connection to God.

It's like all the virtues.

It's interesting to kind of,

What can you cultivate every day that is never changing?

And even if we don't think about eternal,

Just think about in this lifetime.

What can I cultivate within myself?

Or even what,

It's not even so much about cultivating,

It's important to cultivate them,

But what can I rest in?

Like when I say,

Who am I?

You know,

I'm not my body.

My body has changed.

I'm not my weight.

I'm not how many pounds I can press.

I'm not how much money I make.

I'm not what I do for a living.

I'm not,

Do I have a relationship or not?

This is the second one here when it says,

The presence that pervades the universe is imperishable,

Unchanging.

I'm going to read you a different interpretation of that guy.

This is Paramahansa Yogananda's version of this guy.

It's a little wordier.

Know as imperishable the one by whom everything has been manifested and pervaded.

Maybe this wasn't a helpful one.

No one has power to bring about the annihilation of this unchangeable spirit.

No one has power to bring about the annihilation of this unchangeable spirit.

And this is really interesting when we want to do something,

Like let's say we're afraid of failure.

What if we're afraid of what people might think?

What if we're afraid of dying?

What if we're afraid of change?

What if we're afraid of whatever?

There's really something that goes inside and says,

You know,

My job might change,

But I'm the same person.

My weight might change,

But I'm the same person.

My relationship status might change,

But I'm the same person.

This is the piece of this teaching.

That who you are is immutable,

Imperishable,

These are monster words,

Eternal.

The soul,

Everything else is changeable.

And there's really something about that.

There's something about then all of a sudden,

Let's say you wanted to start this project or try this new job or get into this new relationship or move to a new place or whatever.

There's something about taking that calculated risk and saying,

You know,

Whether this works or doesn't,

I'm just me.

I'll always be me.

I'll always enjoy a nice coffee and a good friend and swimming in warm oceans.

That none of that changes.

There's something peaceful about it.

You know,

There's something wonderful inside.

Another big way of looking at this is to understand that we create the world that we see.

We create it.

And this is hard to fathom sometimes,

Because it's like our eyes look out into the world and I see something.

And let's say I see a sheep and a dog and a book and a car.

Well,

My eyes are simply retrieving light particles that are coming back in,

Connecting with my brain inside of me.

And over time,

I have learned to distinguish from a very small age,

You know,

Looking at books,

Dog,

Pig,

Cow,

Sun,

Tree.

I have learned that when I see this particular collaboration of subatomic particles,

That's a dog.

Nothing's happened.

There's just a bunch of subatomic particles out there that maybe were once part of another galaxy,

Or maybe they were once a tree,

Or maybe they were once something else.

But in this instant,

Those particles are now forming what we call dog.

It's all created in my mind,

This perception of dog.

Or maybe it's a book,

And I look at book and I go,

Aha,

That's a book.

Nothing's happened.

I've just simply named a collection of particles that could literally,

Those exact same particles could be formed into a tree,

Or they could be formed into a car,

Or they could be formed into a house.

But in this instance,

Those atomic particles are formed into a book.

And then maybe somebody drops the book in a pail of water.

Now what am I looking at?

I don't even know if I'm looking at a book now.

I'm more looking at a pile of soggy paper.

And then maybe the soggy paper dries,

And someone's like,

Ah,

You know what?

We're just going to burn this because I can't even read it anymore.

So now you burn the book.

Now what am I looking at?

A pile of ash.

It's not a book.

This whole thing has all happened in my head.

What's real is the one observing.

Who is observing?

The I within me that is observing the outside world changing is real.

But out there,

Was it a book?

Was it paper?

Do we go back to when it was a tree before it became paper,

Before it became book?

What is it I'm looking at?

But me,

I haven't changed.

And if we take it a little bit into a more social realm,

David Hawkins wrote a book called Power Versus Force.

And a lot of us have studied the levels of consciousness that he talks about.

And so he has this chart called the Map of Consciousness.

And essentially,

It's all about what level of consciousness are you living at?

Not what emotions are you feeling all the time,

But what are you living at?

And so from the bottom,

It goes like shame,

Guilt,

Fear,

Apathy,

Anger,

Pride,

Desire.

And then it goes to courage,

Which is the turning point.

And then above courage,

It's like,

I can't remember exactly,

Neutrality,

Acceptance,

Love,

Reason,

Peace,

Enlightenment,

That kind of thing.

And what he talks about is he said,

You know,

Let's say he's walking down the street with a friend.

And they see a person who has no home.

And they're sitting on the side of the road.

And let's say his friend was living in a state of shame.

They would look at that person sitting on the side of the road saying,

Oh my God,

I mean,

They must just be,

They must feel horrible.

Like they must be so embarrassed that we're looking at them.

Or maybe the man that David Hawkins is walking with is actually living in a state of guilt.

And so he looks at the man sitting on the street and says,

I probably got himself there.

I wonder what he did to make this happen,

Right?

I mean,

People make crazy choices,

You know.

Or maybe his friend is living in a state of anger.

And he looks at the guy and says,

Oh,

Bloody plague of society.

These people,

They just want and want and want and want.

Why don't you just get,

You know what I mean?

Just like,

Or maybe he lives in a state of apathy.

And he looks at the guy and he's like,

You know,

Whatever.

Who cares?

Everyone's got a problem.

And when,

If we jump a bit higher and let's say the person he's walking with lives in a state of courage.

He sees this person on the side of the road,

Maybe reaches down,

Holds his hand and says,

You know,

You got this or something.

Because in his heart,

He's like,

You know what?

We've all got challenges and we're all meeting them.

And this guy,

Just the same as I am.

Or maybe he lives in a state of love and acceptance.

And he sees the person and says,

You know what?

We're all on a journey.

The reality is our experience is a hundred percent made up inside of us.

That was the same guy sitting there.

But every single person walking by experienced something completely different.

And this is where to really think about how changeable our perceptions are.

That it really isn't so solid what's going on around us.

Because we can say,

Someone might say,

Oh yeah,

But I mean,

We all know there's a tree there,

Right?

And we all know there's a guy there.

We all know that.

It's like,

It doesn't matter what's outside.

All that matters is our experience of it.

The only quote,

Reality we have is our experience of whatever's going on.

One of the big reasons for this teaching is that in our society,

We often look at the things that we can hear,

Taste,

Smell,

Touch,

And hear.

And we think that's reality.

That's manifest.

What's in my bank account,

What I can count,

That's real.

And what this is real,

Because I can touch it.

I can smell it.

I can feel it.

That's real.

Spirit,

The soul,

Nah,

That's not real.

And we don't put enough faith in it.

We don't put enough of our cards in that because I can't experience it with the five senses.

And that's where this teaching may feel kind of radical and confusing.

But when you think of how much society is so incredibly focused on all these changeable parts and then defining all the changeable aspects of our life as being the only reality,

They say that this is the source of so much of our suffering.

Because we're placing where our language says,

If I can touch it,

It's real.

And if I can't touch it,

It isn't real.

So we put all of our horses behind all the changeable,

Temporary aspects of our life.

Instead,

Imagine we flip it completely and we truly connect with what's inside of us,

Which cannot be tasted,

Smelled,

Touched,

Heard,

Or whatever.

It can't be.

And yet it is the permanent self.

It is the place we want to put all of our eggs.

It's going to go back in the chat for a sec.

How do we apply that to the idea that I am not the same person today that I was a year ago and forgiveness and second chances?

I think what you're saying is exactly the teaching of this.

I think it was Epictetus,

I never know how to say his name.

And he used to say that a man cannot step in the same river twice,

For he is not the same man and it is not the same river.

You imagine taking that advice and going to a family function.

How often do we recreate the last family function in today's family function?

But the truth is the river is not the same.

All the people that are there are not the same.

And you are not the same.

Inside,

You're the same.

Your soul is the same.

I am Katrina.

And it doesn't matter in other lifetimes.

But in this lifetime,

I am Katrina.

But how I think and feel and what I do and what I may look like and what I do for a living and all that,

Yeah,

That all changes.

And maybe it changes with everybody else,

Too.

And there's a joy in it,

Kind of knowing that you are this ever evolving being,

Taking on new ideas,

Releasing ones that no longer are necessary,

And you're just always rolling forward.

And how it applies to forgiveness,

It can be many things.

On the one hand,

As we grow and change,

We really start to realize that,

Like when I think back to who I was 20 years ago,

25 years ago,

Living on the farm,

So I was married,

We had a dairy farm,

We had two little kids.

I wasn't the same person I am today.

And loving her,

Understanding she did the best job she could and all that,

It gives me a lot of compassion when I meet people who are feeling really stuck,

Or they're really overwhelmed,

Or they're really,

You know,

Maybe they're caring for aging parents,

Maybe they've got small children,

Maybe they're sick,

Maybe they're whatever,

And we just feel so stuck.

And if that person that's in that overwhelmed state did something or said something or whatever,

It's possible that I can easily forgive them.

Because I remember not being at my best,

Too.

I remember doing things that I regretted.

And you know,

Maybe that's how they feel.

And maybe they just don't even have the bandwidth right now to truly make it right with me.

So I let it go.

Genuinely.

You know,

It doesn't mean I put up with bad behavior or allow abuse or anything like that.

But on the other hand,

When people have repeating patterns of abuse,

I was talking to a young woman on the weekend,

And her family's pattern is verbal abuse.

It doesn't matter what she does.

It's not good enough.

Anything,

It doesn't matter.

She was like,

You wouldn't believe,

Now they're mad at me because of this,

And now they're mad at me because of that.

And it's like,

Well,

It doesn't matter what they're mad at you about.

They're always just mad.

You know,

And now they're mad about how you eat muffins.

And now they're mad about how you blow snow.

And now they're mad about how you drive.

Like,

It doesn't,

It has nothing to do with you.

They're just mad.

Now,

Forgiveness,

You could,

You could just go,

You know what?

They're a bit crazy.

And I'll just sort of avoid being around them.

But there is a time to kind of be able to sit down and go,

Hey,

Look,

You know what?

We're all adults here.

If you want to be friends,

If you want to hang out,

Then we really need to start communicating differently.

And it is possible that maybe they do.

Maybe they do.

Maybe they actually,

Maybe it's the first time it ever dawned on them that there are,

There are consequences to them verbally lashing out at people,

Because maybe they were physically beaten when they were growing up.

And they thought,

Well,

Yelling isn't that bad,

Right?

I mean,

You should know,

You should see what I had to put up with.

And they just genuinely have never had anyone pull them up on it.

And maybe they change.

Well,

Forgiveness is a beautiful thing.

To actually be able to say,

Wow,

They actually genuinely changed.

They are,

You know,

Maybe two years later,

They're different people.

Maybe they realize that,

Wow,

It's a lot easier just to be nice.

There's not all this nonsense all around us all the time.

So I think forgiveness also allows other people to change,

But it also allows us to know when they don't.

Why would we keep walking in front of a fist,

Verbal or not?

You know,

It's like,

You know what?

I can see you don't want to change.

You could change,

But you don't want to.

And that's okay.

Right?

It's okay that people don't change.

Because we're not bound to be with them.

I have to say it all the time.

We can look at the exact same thing and see something completely different.

Totally.

This teaching really helps us get through difficult times.

Let's say you're flowing along in life and somebody loses their job.

When we have the philosophy deep in our hearts,

That we live in a transient world,

That everything is always changing.

And we might lose our job and we may have the feeling of shock,

Sadness,

Anger,

Betrayal,

Fear,

All the things.

And it's good to have them.

It's good to fully feel everything.

We didn't come to earth to be robots.

We came to earth to feel and experience things.

But then imagine your first philosophy is,

Well,

This too shall pass.

Things are always in flux.

Something new must be coming in order for this to have happened.

It's like,

Imagine that this is our foundational philosophy.

Even getting sick.

What if you get the flu?

If our philosophy is so focused on the physical,

It's like,

Darn it,

I can't afford to be sick right now.

I don't want to be sick.

I had things I was going to do.

As opposed to just saying,

Huh,

Well,

I guess I'll take care of myself and have a bath and a hot compress and drink a pile of tea and take care of myself and take my vitamin C and sit tight while this cleans up whatever it's cleaning up inside of me.

And then I'll feel better.

It's changed the only constant.

Exactly.

There's been a philosophical thing forever.

And again,

To deeply embrace this as a truth,

That's the difference.

It's that flip of society's teaching that what I can feel,

Touch,

Smell,

Hear,

That's what's real.

All that spiritual stuff,

Woo woo.

All that stuff inside of you doesn't matter.

How much money you got in the bank?

What do you do for a living?

What kind of car do you drive?

How pretty is your partner?

Da da da da.

This is what the teaching is.

And so if any of that out there changes,

We're like,

Ah.

But imagine we truly flip the whole thing inside.

Non-being can never be.

Being can never not be.

Both these statements are obvious to those who have seen the truth.

The presence that pervades the universe is imperishable,

Unchanging,

Beyond both is and is not.

How could it ever vanish?

Reminds me of that John Lennon quote or the story,

You know,

When they say he went to the school and his teacher said,

What do you want to be when you grow up?

And he said,

Happy.

And she said,

I don't think you understood the question.

And he said,

I don't think you understand life.

Yeah,

I was remembering that based on what Nikolai said,

On learning the conditions we were taught,

Remembering what the soul's true purpose is.

I would love to know what you take away from this.

You know,

If there's a phrase that you would love to remember today,

Or if you were to write something and stick it on your fridge,

What would it be?

Compassion.

This too shall pass.

The ocean exists regardless.

The reminder that I am.

Who am I?

I am the constant amongst the change.

We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to enjoy it.

We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to enjoy it.

We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to We can all see the sun,

But everyone is digging out of a hole of different depths in order to

Reviews

Who knew that such a little book could hold so much Wisdom!? And we’re only on Chapter Two vs: 16-17. Can’t wait for next Monday! I have read 5 different versions of the Gita. Now I catch myself going to the bookshelf and pulling one out, to see how much more I can add to what I have just learned. Maybe when our Group is done learning with Katrina I will sit down and compile a Leslie version. Just to consider the consolidation of the knowledge that now exists for the first time, in this world. That is, of course the Universe of me. Totally unique. Nice to be on this evolutionary trek with this Group and our awesome teacher Katrina. 🙏🏻🫶🏻💗