Reshaping The Narrative Around Mental Health

In honor of World Mental Health Day, we delve into a candid conversation with Shelly Tygielski and Justin Michael Williams, two teachers and mental health advocates who have made it their mission to remove the stigma surrounding this crucial aspect of our wellbeing. Through their own personal journeys and experiences they provide invaluable insights and practical tools that offer a beacon of hope to anyone struggling with their mental health. In a world that often hushes these discussions, Shelly and Justin's wisdom shines as they open up about the power of emotions, the difference between facts and stories, and the essential role of collective care.

Transcript

Hey,

Everybody,

We are so excited to be here in this conversation with you about mental health.

And I'm Justin Michael Williams,

And I'm here with my soul sister and co-author and like best friend and family to me,

Shelly Tagelsky,

Shelly,

Oh my gosh.

So here we are,

And we are really excited to have this conversation with you today about mental health because there are so many myths about mental health and so many misconceptions.

And I think one of the things that's so important that we're hoping to have in this conversation with you today is just a candid,

Real conversation,

Dispelling some of these myths,

Dispelling some of the misconceptions,

And also giving some tips on how we can actually move forward and actually have real mental health,

Not like the air quote mental health,

Like love and light,

And it's all positivity,

And I'm bypassing all the difficult things that are happening in my life,

But real mental health.

And one of the reasons why I feel so grateful that Shelly and I get to do this is because we get to support each other in so many ways.

So Shelly,

I love you.

Absolutely,

I love you too.

And that's such a great place to start,

Justin.

I think that the fact that we do support each other,

That people have this misconception that people who are mindfulness teachers or have been practicing for a really long time don't have off days,

Don't feel down,

Or get depressed,

Or go through dark periods.

And that's actually not true at all.

We both have off days,

And certainly we both have been through a lot of difficult times,

But the key really is is that we have each other,

And certainly we have other people as well,

But we definitely have each other to lean on.

I know that I can call you and sort of vent,

Just meet,

Just create space,

Be in silence with each other if needed,

Not feel like I'm being psychologized,

If you will,

But just being held.

And I think that that's really important,

Especially in a time of disconnection and at a time when there's so much loneliness,

The feeling of being alone,

Right?

Really,

We're surrounded by so many people,

We're connected through social media.

Here we are connecting through Insight Timer.

But I think one of the places that we can start when we talk about mental health is really reevaluating and reassessing where the tangible,

The real connections are.

Where do we feel like we belong?

Yeah,

No,

This is so important.

I think,

Shelley,

One of the things that I felt excited to do in this conversation is really dispel that myth,

Like you said,

That people who meditate or even teach meditation or coaches or leaders or anything like that,

That we have it all figured out and that we don't have mental health things come up.

And just to actually speak to people about some of what has led us to this work and what comes up for this,

I felt excited to share that in this way.

Especially,

You talked for a second about having each other and having community and not feeling like we have to do it alone.

And I know a lot of people out there sometimes feel like they're alone,

But this is why I love Insight Timer so much.

We really are on here in a community.

I feel like the people who listen to my practices and meditations,

There's a community of us happening and we get to actually really be in this together.

And so anyway,

For everybody listening,

I'm just so grateful that you get to be here and I hope you feel like you're here with us because we're here together.

And Shelly's one of those people who I call when I'm having a mental health moment,

Which happens.

And I think the thing to just be really real about,

Shelly,

Is the reason most of us even get into this work is because we had a mental health thing come up that caused us to actually start meditating.

Most people don't start meditating or doing these practices or like going on a spiritual journey if we didn't have some kind of moment that caused us to need to wake up,

Which is oftentimes a traumatic experience.

So I'm wondering if you want to share.

Sure.

Making you go first,

That's all.

No,

I'm really happy to share.

I'm happy to share how I got to a point where I fully understood that to share the load is to have the burden.

Have as in half,

Right?

Half the burden,

Yeah.

Okay,

Half the burden.

So when we share our burdens,

When we share the load that we're carrying with others,

We're halving,

Meaning cutting in half,

The burden.

And so I,

As you know,

Went through close to now,

20 years ago,

My son is 21 years old now,

A really difficult,

Challenging divorce,

A very contentious and difficult time period prior to that divorce actually happening.

And what ultimately was the kind of breaking point that led to the divorce was a health,

A physical health crisis that I went through that I experienced,

Which then led me to really,

The dark night of the soul,

So to speak,

In terms of my mental health as well.

So for people who don't know my personal story,

I am,

People,

They call it vision impairedness.

I don't like that terminology at all because I don't think I'm vision impaired.

I think I'm sight impaired,

But we can have that conversation another day.

But I was in my mid twenties.

I had a toddler son and going through this really terrible time with my partner and I woke up one morning and I was blind.

I couldn't see.

It was incredibly scary because I obviously didn't know what I had and it took a really long time to get me diagnosed.

And when I was diagnosed finally,

Months later,

I was diagnosed with an eye condition that I was told would render me blind,

Completely blind by the time I was 40.

I was able to regain my eyesight through treatments,

But this degenerative eye condition essentially would just continuously get worse.

And what I learned was that a lot of it was really related to my autoimmune system and that when I was stressed out,

My flare-ups would get worse and that I would have a much more difficult time sort of staving off this deterioration of my eyesight.

So at this point I'm 46.

I keep telling people I'm 47.

I'm 46.

I've lost it.

I don't know.

I've been telling people all year I'm 46.

But I'm 46.

And I had still retained my eyesight until I was 42.

And when I turned 42,

I lost the vision completely in my left eye.

And now I still have vision in my right eye.

But what happens when you get a diagnosis like that is really interesting.

It's really interesting to look back reflectively,

But let me stand in that moment for a second and just kind of tell you what I was feeling at that present moment.

So I'm here I am,

I'm diagnosed.

I'm about to become a single mother and completely,

You know,

Just my life is in shambles.

Like everything is falling apart.

And I have this toddler son who's totally dependent on me.

And I think to myself,

Oh my gosh,

Like not only am I going to be blind,

But I may have these other diseases as well that they thought I had at the time that were causing,

You know,

These flare ups.

And I just completely,

You know,

Crumbled.

I just completely felt shattered.

I felt like a failure.

I was afraid.

I felt very alone and I felt hopeless.

I felt like I was not empowered at all.

And when people who know me today would be like,

That doesn't sound like you at all.

And it really wasn't until I recognized that I had the power to take what was given to me,

This lot in life,

Right?

This diagnosis,

This divorce,

And rewrite the narrative.

Rewrite the narrative,

Completely flip the script and change the perspective.

And I didn't do it for myself.

I did it for my son,

First and foremost.

Now I do it for myself too.

But at the time I was like,

If I can't get it together for myself,

I surely have to do it for this little tiny being.

Shelly,

I want to ask you,

Because I've actually,

You know,

Obviously I've heard you talk about this story,

But I've never asked you this question.

And I think this will be really valuable for everybody listening into this because I know there are so many people who are given,

Like you said,

This lot in life,

Like something happens,

Right?

Whether it's of your control,

Out of your control,

Unexpected,

Help,

Whatever it is.

And so if someone's facing that kind of lot in life and they're in that place of uncertainty,

Hope,

Challenge,

How do you,

Can you help us see like,

How do you actually start to rewrite that narrative?

I feel like that would be a little step-by-step thing to get from you.

Well,

I'll tell you,

You know,

There's three things that come to mind.

The first thing is,

Is that,

You know,

The process of meditating is a process of becoming self-aware.

And in a way it's getting closer to knowing yourself,

Right?

What I really had to do was actually unknow myself.

Unknow yourself,

Okay,

How so?

Right,

I had to do the exact opposite because I think that so many of us think we really know who we are because we've created all these narratives and there's so many different versions of ourselves and so many masks that we wear that when everything sort of fell apart,

All I was left with was like this naked,

Vulnerable,

Wounded person,

A shell of myself,

A Shelley of myself,

But really a shell of myself.

And I really had to commit myself in a much deeper way to a daily practice,

Which I had gotten away from.

You know,

I started meditating in grad school and I kind of,

You become a mom,

Your life gets busy,

What have you,

And then you sort of fall away from practice.

And so I was determined that the first thing I would do was to really get rid of all of the narratives and this is who I am and this is who I think I am and this is my title and this is my pedigree and this is what people think about me and this is how I present to the world.

And it was really challenging because I was like,

You know,

To ask yourself who am I really and to not know the answer is probably one of the scariest things that somebody can face.

Right?

So I did that through the practice of metta,

Of loving kindness meditation,

Realizing that I was very unkind to myself for many,

Many years,

Which is what led me here.

And I was consistent about my practice every single day.

For the first time in my life,

I was like,

This is a non-negotiable practice.

This is it.

This is what's happening every day.

And the acronym that I use to borrow from David G who I know is also on this app is in the Insight Timer community is RPM,

Rise,

Pee,

Meditate.

It's Pee Meditate.

Yeah.

So that was it.

I would rise in the morning,

I would pee,

I would go meditate and there was nothing else.

The second thing I did,

Justin,

Was I committed to writing again,

To journaling.

And I didn't just kind of like free form journal.

I did,

You know,

Do that at times,

But I had very specific like prompts that I created for myself.

And every day I would answer the same questions because I really wanted to first unknow myself,

Peel back the layers of the onion and then start rebuilding myself back up again.

So what were these prompts?

They're in my book,

Actually.

No,

But I mean,

There's like 20 of them really.

So a few of them is basically,

You know,

Looking at my habits,

Like what do I do that I'm not doing?

What am I doing that I'm doing for others that doesn't like feed my soul in any way?

What are my fears?

You know,

What am I really afraid of people finding out about me?

Yeah.

Right,

What's the part of me that I'm,

Right,

Like shadow work,

Which we talk about in your book as well,

Right?

So really like doing the deep shadow work,

Which I think so many people are afraid to do because you're like,

Ugh,

Like I don't want to uncover that.

Like,

I don't want the world to see that.

And certainly I don't want to look in the mirror either because it can be a really scary pursuit.

And the third thing I did,

Which I think is the most important thing is I had the courage to be vulnerable and ask for help.

Yes,

Yes.

And I created a community of care that was from other moms at the school where my son was going to school at the time.

And I literally just sent them an email and said,

And gave them a call.

At the time,

There were no,

There was no text messaging.

And I just said,

Hey,

Like,

What are you doing on this night?

You know,

At this time,

I would really love to invite you to the house.

And,

You know,

I need help with something.

And I was kind of very vague about it.

I didn't know who would show up or how they would react,

But I really had to utter these words to people that I knew very well,

Some that were acquaintances,

Some that I had just met,

You know,

In the hallway of a drop off hallway.

And I had to be able to be willing to say,

Like,

I need your help.

I need your help.

I need you to step up for me as a community.

And that was really hard.

But what I learned is that I,

You know,

People want to help.

That's what I learned.

I learned that you'd be really surprised at how many people are willing to show up for you and how incredibly intrinsic and comforting and how much of a circle of mutuality eventually is formed from that,

Because then you're gonna be in a position to help somebody else in that community.

Yeah,

You know,

I think being willing to ask for help,

You know,

I'm experiencing this with one of my other friends right now,

Who,

You know,

Just got diagnosed with cancer and she's shocked at how many people are showing up to support her.

And it's that thing of when we actually show up and be vulnerable and ask for help,

I have found this in my own life as well.

And I'm glad that you're echoing this.

I think we often assume that,

Oh,

People are so busy,

I don't want to bother them,

They won't help me.

But when we actually wave that flag,

Like,

And say,

I need help,

Always is surprising to me that people who you would never expect sometimes will show up in ways that will blow you away.

And so we have to watch the stories that we make up in our heads about,

Oh,

Everyone's so busy.

Oh,

I don't want to bother anybody.

And first be vulnerable and ask for help.

Right.

And there's that fear of rejection for sure,

Right?

That we fear that,

Well,

What if nobody shows up?

Yeah.

That's real.

That's super real.

That is real.

That's a very valid feeling.

Especially if you're in a place where you feel like I don't have community or you just moved,

Let's say,

Or you just lost,

You're experiencing grief and loss.

But what I will say is that,

With the advent of technology- That's what I was just gonna say.

Now with technology,

We can reach out in places we could have never reached out before.

Absolutely.

So I'll give you a really concrete example of that.

Justin,

I do a lot of work obviously with,

Or not obviously,

But you know that I do a lot of work with gun violence survivors.

And one of the ways that this incredible community of parents and siblings and spouses and so on who have lost family members in a really tragic way due to gun violence in this country,

They have support groups that are online.

They've created these safe spaces.

They've been pre-COVID,

You know?

Because if you're feeling alone in your own community and you feel like somebody else doesn't understand what I'm going through,

There's a way for you to find that community nowadays online and that's a blessing.

Social media,

There's groups for all kinds of things and they're very active.

And so that's a really good takeaway,

Shelley,

For anybody who's feeling alone to really go search for those groups and communities in the platforms that you're on or maybe get on a new one.

You know,

Shelley,

It's reminding me as you're sharing this about how I got into the mental health space in terms of space.

And,

You know,

It's really crazy to think of our own journeys and like knowing now that we're two people who were so unlikely to even meet.

You know,

Like we lived literally on the actual opposite sides of the United States.

You lived in Florida.

I'm in Los Angeles.

We,

And still now you're on the opposite side of the United States in Asheville.

You are a straight Gen X Jewish mom.

I'm a millennial gay black man,

You know,

Living in LA.

But it's interesting that this mental health space is what actually has united us and brought us together,

You know,

To the point that now we wrote a book together.

I mean,

It's just like,

You know,

Such a,

I just am feeling the gratitude of when we can show up and be vulnerable.

And we don't know what gifts come to us because it is from my deepest pain that ultimately I end up meeting you,

You know,

If you really follow the thread and which has become one of my greatest gifts.

And so I,

Yeah,

I guess I'll share with people a little bit about that journey.

So,

You know,

So for me,

I don't know if anybody relates to this,

But I would have called myself and I still am this a little bit,

But growing up I would have called myself a chronic overachiever.

I don't know if anybody.

I don't know anybody like that.

You don't know anybody like that,

You know,

You can raise your hand in the air from home if you know,

If you resonate with this.

But I mean,

What's really tricky about this,

Right?

Is I grew up being the one who seemed like they always had it together,

You know,

And the one in the family who I'm the oldest,

I got good grades,

I achieved,

Achieved,

Achieved.

And I think most of my achievements really came from this desire to just feel like I was enough.

And so I was constantly just trying to succeed,

Succeed,

Succeed.

And I grew up in a really rough environment and with gun violence and alcoholism and,

You know,

Physical abuse in the family and domestic violence.

I mean,

Just really tough.

And I think my way out of that mentally,

Emotionally was to just stay busy and just keep succeeding so I could get out.

And I'll never,

Ever,

Ever forget this moment.

It's like,

I can still close my eyes and picture myself there.

And I think we all have moments that we can just like take ourselves back to.

And this is one of them.

You know,

I had succeeded in everything that I had ever set out to succeed that anybody had ever told me that I should succeed.

I got a full ride academic scholarship to get out of the hood.

And I went to UCLA on a full ride scholarship.

I'm in the most impacted major.

I'm getting straight A's.

I came out of the closet.

I have extra money for the first time in my life.

I'm living in a safe neighborhood in LA and I'm 19 years old.

And I sat in my dorm room and I was looking in the long skinny mirror that we put on the back of my dorm room door from Ikea that most students have.

And I'm looking in the mirror and I'm thinking,

You know,

I had got an eating disorder at that time.

And I remember looking at myself and thinking,

How is it that I've accomplished everything and I'm still freaking miserable?

And that is what spiraled me down.

Like when I finally admitted it to myself,

Like I've done everything and I'm still not happy.

And I think,

You know,

That is what really woke me up in this moment because I had an eating disorder at the time because I think I was just still really trying to control things.

So I went to a therapist after I collapsed on a treadmill at school during finals week.

And I went to a therapist and the therapist said to me these words that I'll never forget.

They said,

You should try meditation.

And I said,

Literally this before the iPhone,

Before,

You know,

And I said,

Meta what?

Like,

What was that?

Isn't that worshiping the devil?

Like I didn't know what it was,

You know,

All those statues.

And he said,

No,

Young man,

It seems like you've spent your whole life trying to find your happiness outside of yourself.

It's time to look the only place you haven't looked.

And I was like,

Where?

Like,

Literally like,

Where?

Tell me where I gotta go,

You know?

And he said,

Within.

Now this is very commonplace language now,

You know?

Sure.

Back then I had literally never even heard that phrase.

Right.

This within.

I'm a kid from the hood.

Like all I was,

You know,

Religious.

All I knew is I was just supposed to not be making God mad at me.

Like by doing these things like,

What?

And so that set me on this journey to really healing.

And it was,

I started meditating.

I started reading personal growth books.

My first,

First,

First book.

I tell people this funny story.

I went into the Borders bookstore.

People remember that store?

With big sunglasses on and a hoodie into the mental health department.

Because I was embarrassed to be in there.

Now we have two books in there.

But the,

But to pick a book.

And I picked up Eckhart Tolle,

A New Earth.

And.

It's a good one.

Good place to start.

First one,

You know?

And so I just share that because what I think many of us do is we think that in order to be well,

We need to change something in our external circumstance.

And I think obviously external circumstances matter,

Right?

To a certain extent.

Sure.

But if there's anything that I'm so grateful that I learned early at 19,

At a young age,

It was that,

That famous phrase,

Wherever you go,

There you are.

Yeah.

And,

And if I was ever gonna feel well,

I was gonna have to feel well in here,

Regardless of what was happening out there.

Right.

And that I think has been my biggest lesson in mental health that I think is important for people to understand.

So I can just give like a concept.

Is I think one of the misconceptions or beliefs about mental health is like,

If we have quote unquote good mental health,

Then we're feeling mostly happy all the time.

Or our life is going good all the time.

And I found that that's not what mental health means.

Mental health means your life can be doing this.

Your life can be going up and down and sideways and challenges and pain and also joy.

And inside of all of that,

You are there able to actually hold the breadth and width and dynamic of experience that's happening without it breaking you down.

So I don't know what you think about that,

Shelly,

But.

I certainly,

Obviously I agree with that.

I will say there's a couple of things that you said that brought some stuff up for me.

So the first thing that I wanna share is,

One of my favorite quotes from the poet,

Mary Oliver,

Which is,

I was once given a box of darkness and it took me a long time to realize that it too was a gift.

Yeah,

Just to paraphrase Mary Oliver.

And that's a beautiful,

Because you were mentioning like this darkest part,

Or one of these like dark moments in your life where you were like,

This is really scary,

But in the end wound up being like such an incredible gift,

In many ways,

A gift that keeps on giving.

So that's first and foremost.

And I think that if we can recognize that really the darkness is just this like liminal space,

The space that we have the opportunity to,

Again,

Change the narrative or recognize that things may not be okay now,

But that if we continue to just trust the process,

If you will,

And walk through it and deal with it,

Then that's the key.

But I will say this,

I have anxiety attacks all the time.

I have panic attacks all the time.

And people are surprised to learn that about me.

And the difference is,

Is exactly what you're saying,

Is that,

Yes,

I still ride the waves.

I still kind of have these undulations in my life and these highs and lows,

Is that when I'm having a panic attack and I find myself on like the bathroom floor in a corner,

Like completely hyperventilating and sweating and thinking like,

I can't do this.

I can't go out in front of that crowd and talk to people,

Or I'm not gonna be able to do this.

Or there's a moment of lucidity where I realized,

Well,

Wait a minute,

I have tools.

I have tools.

Maybe I should like go into my toolbox and see what comes up,

Right?

And so I think that this journey of mental health is really about amassing tools.

And some tools are gonna work for you.

Some tools are never gonna work for you.

Some tools will work for you today and won't work for you tomorrow.

But the idea is that if you can imagine that you have this like tool belt or toolbox and just continue to fill and replenish and renew all these tools so that when you're having those low moments,

When you are having a panic attack,

You say,

I literally say to myself,

I have tools.

And I remember,

I'm gonna tell you a story that I don't think I've ever shared with you before.

I was sitting in Barrie,

Massachusetts,

Which is where Insight Meditation is,

And I was leading a retreat.

And the morning the retreat started,

I woke up early to get ready to go into the hall and I had a panic attack.

And I thought,

What am I doing here?

Why am I here?

I was having these imposter syndrome moments and I'm gonna be found out and I'm about to teach with like the person that I hold on the most high,

My teacher,

Sharon Salzberg.

And I'm like,

Oh my God,

This is,

I gotta run.

Like I gotta fly back home.

And I realized in that moment,

And my husband came in and was like,

Are you okay?

Like,

What do you wanna do?

Like,

And I was like,

I can't do it.

I can't go out there.

I'm not gonna be able to do this.

And I finally looked at him and I said,

You know what?

I have tools,

I have tools.

And I stayed there on the bathroom floor and I just started to breathe,

Regulate my vagus nerve,

Looked in the mirror,

Said some affirmations to myself and just realized that it's going to be okay because I have the tools to be able to work through whatever is going to happen and whatever's going to be.

That the turbulence is,

You know,

It's not something that is going to be happening forever.

It's just,

I have to get through it.

And you know what?

This is so important.

You've never shared that story with me.

And I'm so grateful that you just shared it here now,

You know,

In front of everybody,

Because two things,

I have like five things that wanna come up at the same time,

But I'm gonna go one at a time because that's all I can do,

Is one,

I think about how valuable a tool like Insight Timer is.

Like,

I will tell you,

Your phone,

Like this is where we talk,

We talk so much mess about technology in the world.

And then we remember and we look at these things that literally couldn't exist without technology where technology is doing really great good.

And so I think about Insight Timer and you're like,

I have tools and you can open this thing and have all of these tools,

Like right there available from every walk of life,

From everything that you could possibly need.

And so one of the things that we actually did here for this conversation is put together a list of some of our favorite practices and tools and talks around mental health so that people can access them and go to them whenever they need.

So I hope you all go check out that special list of practices.

But the second thing to remember,

Shelley,

And I don't know if this happens to you,

And I'll say it like this,

Okay?

I just wanna frame this for everybody to make sure you understand that you're not alone.

So like I'm saying this so that you all understand when this happens to you,

That nothing's wrong with you.

Shelley and I have both individually been teaching this work for over 15 years,

Individually,

Right?

Like Shelley,

More than 15,

Right?

And I have a book,

Shelley has a book,

We wrote a book together that's coming out.

We teach and speak all over the world.

And I share that with you to say that when I have a moment where I'm having a mental health breakdown,

I even forget that I have tools and I can't even remember the tools sometimes.

And this is why calling someone is really important.

Like Shelley reminds me,

Justin,

Wake up,

She's like,

You know what to do.

Remember this tool,

You wrote about this,

You know?

But what I'm saying is one of the things that I do is I have a list in my phone,

In my notes in my phone,

That if I can just remember to look at my phone,

I have a notes app that says,

Remember these things help you.

And it's literally a things when you're feeling this,

Ask yourself this question,

Remember this work last time,

Look at this quote,

Read this page from this book.

I just keep like a running list of things that have helped me in the past.

Because when you're in the storm,

You sometimes can't even remember,

First of all,

That you have tools or second,

How to use them.

And so I wanna give that as a practical takeaway for people,

Start a list in your phone or somewhere that you can access easily that reminds you of some places to start to kind of pull yourself out of the hole.

It's really valuable.

I have a good name for that list.

What do you call it?

It's the break glass in case of emergency list.

Break glass in case of emergency list,

That's it.

That's it.

That's your list.

That's where your fire hydrant is,

Right?

The fire is going on and you're like,

It's swirling.

Break the glass.

You know,

Don't,

Yeah.

Totally.

Shelley,

I think one of the things that I want to,

Offer people as we start to close out a little bit is some actual tools that they can take away from this conversation.

Like some of our favorite tool.

I think that there's so many tools that we can use,

But there are some that you can just walk away with and use right now that I feel like if you're listening to this,

Like you can instantly remember or write down very quickly and have the beginning of your break glass tool,

When emergency toolbox.

So I know one of the ones,

Shelley,

That we wanted to talk about,

This is one that we teach about often,

Is the feelings wheel,

Which there are many versions by Gloria Wilcox.

So I don't know if you want to talk about that.

Also known as the emotions wheel,

If you've heard of it that way,

Right?

The emotions wheel,

The feelings wheel,

All kinds of things.

Yeah.

So,

You know,

And we do,

We talk about this and we share a version of this wheel in the book as well.

If you go online and you just type in feelings wheel or emotions wheel,

What will come up is this like multicolored,

Multi-layer deep wheel that has different layers of emotions,

Different layers of feelings.

And it's really critical to be able to name,

To really assess,

To recognize and allow really,

But recognize what it is that we're feeling.

Why?

Because we need to be able to,

Number one,

Communicate it to ourselves so that we're like,

Ah,

I'm not tired.

I'm actually feeling agitated.

And maybe I'm feeling tired because I'm trying to get away from this feeling of agitation that I'm feeling.

And it allows you to then really start to go a little bit deeper.

And then from the space of emotions,

Right?

We talk about this a lot often and we teach about this.

You can begin to sense where those emotions are coming up and how you're reacting to those emotions,

How you're responding to that.

Are you reacting or are you responding?

Is it conscious or is it unconscious?

But the core thing is,

Is to be able to really recognize and name your emotion so that you can communicate it,

Understand yourself,

But communicate it to others as well.

Yeah,

And I think,

You know,

One of the things that will surprise people when I use the feelings wheel is,

Well,

First of all,

Oftentimes when we ask ourselves,

How am I feeling?

And you answer,

You go to the wheel and you realize you're not actually feeling what you think you're feeling sometimes.

Like the wheel gives us language that is more nuanced to help us really understand like,

Oh,

I thought I was,

Like you said,

Tired,

But what I actually am is sad and disappointed.

And now I have a whole different set of tools that I can use to deal with my sadness and disappointment than I would if I was tired.

Like if I was tired,

I might go listen to a yoga nidra or go take a nap,

But if I'm sad or disappointed,

There's a whole nother set of tools that I can use.

So the language actually helps us clarify so that we can use the right kinds of tools from our toolbox to help solve the,

Solve,

I'm using the word solve,

That's probably not the right word,

But be with,

You know,

The situation a little bit more clearly.

Go ahead.

No,

I mean,

I think,

You know,

I love the story that you tell about your kind of aha moment when you were at the psychologist's office or therapist's office.

I wonder if you could share that here.

They're gonna pull out that story,

Yes.

I will,

Because I think it's gonna be really useful to people,

You know?

I think people can have an aha moment too.

Yeah,

This was my first time really getting this,

Getting this teaching.

And what I'm gonna do,

This is gonna be so silly.

For people who are watching the video version of this,

Hold on a second,

Watch what I have.

I literally,

I literally have a feelings wheel pillow that one of my friends bought for me,

If you can see this,

On my couch.

So this is what it looks like.

Oh my God.

Because I use it all the time.

Yes,

I use it all the time.

And like,

Anyway,

When I was dating this guy,

We would sit and hold it and have a conversation,

Say,

What are you feeling right now?

And we'd pick something off the pillow and be holding the pillow.

That is so funny,

I love it.

So anyway,

For people who can see this,

I'm holding a feelings wheel pillow in my hand.

For people who don't,

You can easily look this up online.

But the way that I got this teaching,

Y'all are gonna giggle,

Is I was in a very serious relationship with somebody about a decade ago,

More than a decade ago now.

And we were in therapy and it was like early days for me in therapy.

And I go in and I was really upset with him.

And I kept saying to him,

Like,

I kept saying to the therapist,

I feel like he never listens to me.

And she goes,

No,

Tell me how you feel.

And she kept saying that.

And I was like,

Well,

I feel like he always thinks he's right.

And she goes,

Okay,

Again,

I'm asking you to tell me how you feel.

And I said,

Well,

I feel like every time I have something to say,

He thinks that he knows the answer and he's not listening to me.

And she said one more time,

And y'all are gonna laugh,

She goes,

Justin,

I'm asking you to tell me how you feel.

And I said,

Well,

Now I'm irritated because I keep telling you how I feel.

And you keep asking me the same question.

You know,

I was like 20 something at this point.

And she's like,

Ah,

Now we have a feeling.

You just said irritated.

And then that was where like my biggest lesson on feelings came.

And so she said to me,

Anytime you say the words,

I feel like,

If the word like comes after I feel,

You're headed down the wrong track.

If you say,

I feel like,

You're often gonna lead to some narrative or some story that you've made up.

I feel like they did this.

I feel like she should have had this response.

I feel like whatever.

So I feel should always come with a word that actually describes an emotion afterwards.

So yeah,

Sure,

He did that.

But how do you feel?

And no one's making you feel anything.

You're having a feeling inside of yourself.

And so I,

You know,

Go to the wheel and I would say,

I feel threatened.

I feel aggressive.

I feel distant.

And that helps me realize that one of the things I'm feeling is anger.

Right.

And so now we have something to work with.

We have,

We can work with our anger in a healthy way.

Right,

Right.

So there's that personal story.

I love that story.

Well,

I think another tool that we wanted to leave people with as we wrap up is something that we also teach a lot about and talk about in our book is really the difference between,

Because you're talking about stories.

Oh yes,

This is my favorite.

Between an assertion and an assessment,

Right?

How do we define what's actually true?

And I know that we live in a world right now where the truth can seem really subjective,

But if we can kind of go back to a universe where the truth can be a little bit more black and white.

And so an assertion is a fact.

It's something that is verifiable.

And an assessment is a subjective story,

A story that we create.

And it's usually created from our own assessments,

Our own experiences,

Right?

So with the assertion,

Yeah,

Pardon?

Sometimes from our traumas too.

Yeah,

Sometimes from our traumas,

From our experiences,

From the society,

From the world that we're living in,

From the way that we were raised,

From what our religion tells us,

From what our culture tells us is acceptable,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

And so it's not that there's anything wrong with making assessments because in many ways,

And we write about this,

That assessments have saved us as a species,

Like it's led to our survival making these assessments.

But I think this goes back to,

And this is a really great bookend to like kind of where we started about unknowing yourself.

Like being able to ask yourself what assertions,

What things do I know about myself and in my life that are verifiable,

That are absolutely true?

And that I can verify with data,

With information,

And what are the stories that I'm telling myself about those things?

Yes.

Right?

And so Justin,

You have a really great tool that you share often with people where you tell people make two columns.

Yeah,

This is my,

I will tell you of all the tools in my toolbox.

This is the one that I use more than any other tool all the time on the back of an envelope,

On a napkin inside of a restaurant.

And it really helps when you write it down if you can,

But sometimes I have to do it in my phone if I need to.

This is my favorite tool.

And it deals with exactly what Shelly was talking about.

So assessments are the stories that we're making up.

Assertions are the facts,

The actual hard facts.

And this tool was something that we kind of created based upon a lot of Brene Brown's research as well around these stories and facts.

And so one of the things that you do is you just draw a line down a sheet of paper,

Any piece of paper,

Again,

Back of an envelope.

On the left side,

You write,

These are the facts.

And on the right side,

You go,

Here are all the stories I'm making up about it.

Here are all the stories in my head.

And so the facts are the assertions,

The stories are the assessments,

And you have to separate them.

So an example that I give often when I'm teaching this is,

I don't know,

Is a funny story that I have about,

I don't know why it always comes back to dating for me,

Shelly,

But here we are.

So- There's a theme here.

There's a theme here today.

There's a theme here today.

For all other conversations.

There's a theme here today.

So anyway,

But it's actually a really funny story that I think people will resonate with in a lot of ways.

So there was somebody who I was dating for several weeks.

We were texting,

Good morning,

Good night,

I miss you,

Blah,

Blah,

You know,

In the beginning in this honeymoon phase.

And then one day,

One day,

One day,

I text him good morning after we had had a really vulnerable conversation the night before.

And normally my good morning texts is probably within five,

10 minutes,

Responded to it,

Good morning,

How are you?

Have a good day.

So five minutes goes by,

10 minutes goes by,

20 minutes goes by.

I go get in the shower,

I come out,

45 minutes has gone by.

And instantly the stories began.

Did I say something last night that made him not like me anymore when I was too vulnerable?

I start checking my phone to make sure the thing even delivered,

Even though it clearly said it delivered.

And I'm like resetting my phone to make sure.

Then I start making up all these stories.

Oh,

Well,

You know what?

He's just this,

Or all guys are like this.

You know,

Now my traumas and my relationship patterns are coming in.

Then I called one of my friends and I said,

Can you believe?

So now,

By the way,

It had been four or five hours and I got no response.

And I called one of my friends and I said,

Girl,

Can you believe I shared my heart last night?

And this morning I text good morning and don't hear back.

And she's like,

See,

Guys are always like this.

This is why it's better that we're alone and why people are always like this in LA.

Fast forward,

He texts me a few hours later.

He said,

Oh my gosh,

We were in such a deep conversation last night.

I forgot to tell you that I was going into a training for work in the morning and I wasn't gonna have my phone.

I loved everything about our talk last night.

How are you?

I had worked myself up into an absolute spiral over nothing.

Yeah.

And so it was interesting because it was then that I actually learned this practice.

I learned this practice back then and it was a lined out a sheet of paper.

The facts,

If you go,

What are the facts?

The only facts of this story are I sent a text message and I haven't heard back.

That's it.

You may be able to add one more and say,

And I haven't heard back as quickly as I have before.

Yeah.

Everything else,

Everything was a story.

And when you look at the stories you make up when you do this exercise a few times,

You'll recognize that the stories are telling you more about your mental health.

Yeah.

About what you believe about yourself and about the world.

It's where you go when you get triggered,

Those stories.

And if you do this practice a few times,

You'll see that this has to tell you a lot about your mental health.

So I recommend this practice to anybody at any time so you don't go on a spiral like I did.

And I'm told a funny dating story,

But I think people can resonate with this from anything.

A message from a coworker,

From a family member and you start making all this stuff up.

But also as it relates to mental health,

To say things like,

I'm not loved.

Nobody loved me.

I'm all alone.

Nobody cares.

I can't do this.

I can't take care of myself.

I can't spend time doing X,

Y,

Z.

So there's just so many stories that we tell ourselves even around self-care,

About what we're capable of,

About what we're able to accomplish in terms of climbing that mountain,

Climbing out of that hole,

Making it through the dark,

Into the light.

But when you read the stories,

It's often some version of,

I'm not good enough.

Yeah.

I'm alone.

The world is always like this and I'm bound to keep repeating this.

Everyone's against me.

Correct.

Exactly.

And so we're not saying that those feelings aren't valid.

We're not saying they're not valid.

They're super valid.

They're super valid and they're very real.

But what we're saying is that there's also the ability to sort of maybe take a step back and look at the assertions and the assessments.

Yeah.

So the other thing that that story brought up for me is that clearly I wasn't around in your life at that time,

But if you would have called me,

I totally would have had a different reaction.

I know,

I know.

But here we are,

We've grown,

Right?

Yeah,

Totally.

Still growing,

Still growing.

So as we close everybody,

I think one of the things that I really wanna say in closing is the power of collective care with this.

And the fact that when we think about mental health and the fact that we often think we have to do it alone.

And one of the things that we know and why I believe these communities,

Like here on Insight Timer are so important is because we are not meant to do it alone.

That's right.

We're meant to be in community,

We're meant to be together.

And so Shelly,

If you wanna just say anything about that,

I know this is your jam.

So in closing for people,

I'd be really grateful to hear your wisdom on that.

I mean,

What more can I say then that humans have evolved to be social creatures?

We are,

Anything that we've accomplished in humanity,

Positive or negative to that matter,

But really,

I mean,

Let's focus on the positive things that have brought us forward as a humanity.

Anything that we've accomplished,

Anything that we will accomplish has never been accomplished alone,

Ever.

And so I think that if we can lean into that sort of rawness of our biological innate abilities to connect with people,

And we're willing to have the courage to be vulnerable,

Even if it's first with strangers,

Even if it's with ourselves first,

Even if we're just at first starting out by admitting to ourselves,

Like,

I am stuck,

I'm at this point,

That's huge too.

Recognizing that you're stuck somewhere,

That your leg is stuck in a trap and that you need help getting out is a really big thing as well.

So I just,

I think if that's the one takeaway from,

There's many takeaways,

But if there's one takeaway from everything here,

It's really that I would say,

Find yourself either formally and call them this,

An accountability buddy or a self-care buddy,

Or get yourself a community of care.

And that is not just like something where you're like,

Oh,

I have my favorites on my phone and this is who I'm gonna call,

But actually have a conversation with the people that are closest to you and say,

Will you be part of my break glass in case of emergency kit?

Yeah.

Can I depend on you in these moments?

And I think you'll be surprised that many people would completely be grateful to be in that position,

To be able to help you.

Yeah.

And I'm grateful to be with you,

Shelly.

I love you.

I love you too.

Everybody listening,

I never could have imagined that me going through that trauma at 19 and Shelly,

I know going through her trauma and experience when she was going through her divorce with her vision and me standing in front of that mirror would lead us to a place of being able to work and write and teach and share together.

And we want you to know that some of your greatest hardships can turn into your greatest gifts if you choose to reflect the story.

I never could have imagined that Shelly and I would co-author a book together.

We have a book called,

How We Ended Racism.

And the reason I think it's such a gift is understanding that we have to come together to heal these issues that are happening in society so that we can all be well.

Yes.

And this is why the work that we do in the outer world around laws and politics and race and collective care and activism is all inextricably linked to our mental inner wellbeing and health.

These things are absolutely connected.

And so when we think about something like mental health and World Mental Health Day,

We can't forget about the world and that the world have people in it.

And the prayer that we have with all of our work is may we all be well,

May we all be happy,

May we all be free,

May we all find each other and be well,

Even in our differences.

And may whatever is a hardship in your life be a part of what wakes you up.

On that note,

We love you.

Goodbye.

Happy Mental Health Day.

Thank you.

Reviews

Everyone may need to hear this because of the many terrific tools and ideas contained in this talk. We all need help sometimes, and when we think we don’t is probably when we need it most.

A powerful insight to mental health. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, experiences and words of wisdom.
Thank you 🙏

Thank you Justin and Shelly for the many helpful tips and suggestions in this talk. 🙏🏼💕