Love In Action With Marianne Williamson

This pivotal conversation with Marianne Williamson, luminary, spiritual teacher, and political love activist will inspire you to be more loving in your thoughts, words, and actions. Join Marianne and Julie, course creator on Insight Timer, podcast host, and master spiritual life coach, for a real talk about the politics of love, and the importance of taking responsibility for the world around you and your inner work. Start by asking how you can put love into action, in your own life. Marianne reminds us not to underestimate our power and ability to create freedom, justice, and joy for everyone.

Transcript

Hello,

My dear friend.

I am so excited to be with you for this conversation.

I am actually recording the intro,

All the details about Marianne Williamson after my conversation with her.

I really wanted to be in her energy first,

And I'm so glad I did wait because it was such a heartfelt,

Deep conversation.

And I just wanna say,

Wherever you fall in the political spectrum,

Or if you're not even tuned into that at all,

Just invite you to listen with an open heart.

I know something that was so important that she talked about,

I believe,

Is just holding space for everyone,

Wherever we might be,

Having those differences and coming from love versus fear or anger.

So my invitation is just to come here with love.

And let me tell you a little bit about Marianne in case you are new to her.

She is just an incredible,

Incredible teacher and has been a mentor to me through many of her books and her teachings.

So let me tell you about Marianne Williamson is a best-selling author.

She is a political activist and a spiritual thought leader.

For over three decades,

She has been a leader in spiritual and religiously progressive circles.

She is the author of 15 books,

Yes,

15,

Four of which have been number one New York Times bestseller,

Some of my most favorite books.

Marianne founded Project Angel Food,

A nonprofit organization that has delivered more than 14 million meals to ill and dying homebound patients since 1989.

This was created to help people suffering from the ravages of HIV AIDS.

Marianne also has worked through her career on poverty,

Anti-hunger and racial reconciliation issues in 2004.

She co-founded the Peace Alliance and this supports the creation of a US Department of Peace.

I love that.

I would love to have a Department of Peace.

Yes,

Please.

Williamson also ran for the Democratic nomination for president in 2020 and Marianne is going to be running for president in 2024.

I'm gonna have all of her information in the show notes.

If you want to find out more about that,

Just go to marianne2024.

Com.

Here's what I wanna say.

And this is coming from my heart to yours.

I've been doing a lot of studying of just how to elevate my own consciousness.

How can we do that collectively?

I'm a huge fan.

As you might know,

Marianne is an expert in A Course in Miracles.

She has some beautiful books.

Some of my favorites were A Return to Love,

Illuminata,

The Divine Law of Compensation,

The Age of Miracles and her newest book,

A Politics of Love.

We talked about that.

And I have just yet to hear someone coming in talking about love and putting that,

Coupling that with politics.

So this is a different conversation.

I don't know if you've heard anything like this.

For me,

It was really transformative and I was very grateful to get to meet Marianne and see her in DC earlier this spring.

And I just hope that whatever you take away from this,

You remember that you are so important,

That you're doing the inner work,

Doing the shadow work,

Doing that on an individual level,

In your,

The work in your family,

In your community.

And then all of us really doing that work together in our country,

In our world.

Because I know some of you aren't all in the States,

That we just remember we're all worthy,

We're all important.

And when we come from love versus fear,

It's like,

It's the light that cancels out the dark.

There is no opposite of love.

There's just love.

So may you come into this conversation with an open heart,

With love.

And I will just say from my heart to yours,

I truly love you.

I do.

Even,

I may not know you yet.

I may not have met you yet.

I don't even know if we live near each other or not,

What your background is.

I just have to say is from one spirit in a human body to another,

I love you.

Thank you for being part of this conversation.

And of course,

As always,

May this be for the highest good of you and all who listen.

Oh my goodness.

My USU beloved listeners,

Community,

Friends,

Far and wide.

I know that you are spanning the world and I am so excited.

This conversation today has been one that I've been dreaming of for years.

Marianne,

I'm such a fan of you,

Of your work in the world,

Of your heart and what you are looking to do,

Especially in our country in the US.

For those of us who live in this country,

I just got to hear you speak recently in DC.

I know you're running for the Democratic Party in 2024 and it was just a gift to hear you and all that you're up to.

So thank you,

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here today and for this beautiful conversation.

Well,

Thank you.

Thank you for your generosity and for your support,

Your encouragement,

Thank you.

I,

You know,

For those,

I know I've been getting messages from listeners in my audience that have asked,

Please bring in Marianne.

We just,

We love her.

We love your teachings.

Could we just do,

Before we get into,

I think your book,

By the way,

A Politics in Love is a must read for every single human being,

Especially those in the US.

Thank you.

I took so many notes and I'm gonna do my best to just keep us very,

Very focused.

For those who might be newer to you,

Would it,

I would just love to get into a little bit of just how you got interested in politics,

Coming from all the work that you've done in the world around,

I know with AIDS,

With love,

With A Course in Miracles.

How did you naturally find yourself into wanting to make a difference now in our world politically?

When I was in college,

This was a time when you read Ram Dass and Alan Watts in the morning and you went to a Vietnam anti-war protest in the afternoon.

There wasn't the sense of separate lanes and these silos that you had to stay in.

There was a sense of counterculture and it was musical,

It was sexual,

It was political,

It was spiritual,

It was cultural,

It was everything.

So it was never that I didn't care about political things or that I wasn't active,

But I came to believe that my greatest contribution was in the area of personal transformation.

I knew that the world has to change and people have to change.

So I was always comfortable with the integrative realization that it's,

As Martin Luther King would say,

We need both qualitative changes in our circumstance.

No,

He said quantitative changes in our circumstances and qualitative shifts in our souls.

Now,

For the first couple of decades of my career,

I felt very comfortable within the space of personal transformation as a counselor,

As a teacher,

As an author.

But what I began to see around the year 2000 was people's lives falling apart,

Not from the proverbial shit happens,

Not from the fact that somebody had gotten the diagnosis of a life-challenging illness,

Or a child was on heroin,

Or my spouse left me,

Or addiction issues.

It was more a sense of people who were just having to struggle to survive in some way unless they were the lucky ones who lived within a certain elite circle of Americans.

I had moved to Detroit and that was where I first started seeing it up close and personal.

And I began to realize that there's this island that I now realize is,

Yeah,

That island is 20% of Americans who,

For whom the economy is good,

We can spread our wings,

We have a lot of opportunities,

Times are good,

Times are bad,

But in general,

Life's pretty good.

Well,

In the richest country in the world,

If you can only say that about 20% of your people,

And that this 20%,

It's almost like we live on an island that is surrounded by a vast sea of economic despair.

And when you see it up close,

You realize how different it is than,

Let's say,

The 1970s,

When the average person could afford a house,

And a car,

And a yearly vacation,

And to send their kids to college.

And I began to realize something is really wrong,

That people don't have healthcare,

People don't have a way to send their kids to college,

And people are shackled by these college loan debts,

People don't have childcare,

And people are working in jobs that they hate,

But they have to be there,

Because it's the only way to pay back the bills,

The loans,

But the loans were to work in a field that's even different than this,

But they can't work in that field,

Because if they did,

They'd never be able to get their college loans,

Or people who are too educated,

Members of a couple,

And even they aren't working at the jobs that they would like to work on,

Because if they do,

They couldn't afford healthcare,

Or people having to leave their babies way before every,

You know,

Millions of years of evolution have gone into a woman knowing in the cell of her being that it's too soon to leave my baby,

But she doesn't have paid family leave,

And then they call that her mental health crisis.

Not a mental health crisis,

It's a crisis in the fact we don't have paid family leave.

And even about,

I started hearing all this mental health crisis,

Mental health crisis,

But realizing if you actually talk to more people,

How much people's economic anxiety is contributing to the mental health crisis.

It didn't just come from nowhere.

It's a result,

It's a symptom of the fact that life has become too hard for too many people.

Now,

We live in the richest country in the world.

I understand in some countries,

Deep,

You know,

Financial disadvantage.

It's reasonable when you recognize,

Well,

The majority of the people live lives of hardship.

The majority of people should not be living lives of economic hardship in the United States.

There's a reason for it.

So I had done a lot of work,

Nonprofit work,

Charitable work,

Personal transformation,

And I began to realize that there's some really sick game going on here because there is no amount of private charity or even personal transformational work that can compensate for the fact that there's too little,

What is called social justice in this country.

And once you see it,

You can't unsee it.

And I would,

You know,

Know people who were very involved politically,

And I would point these things out,

And I would see a lot of nodding heads.

You know,

You're right,

Marianne,

You're right.

We have to just keep working.

We just have to keep working.

Then I talked to those same people five years later.

Well,

We have to keep working.

And I said,

But wait,

You have the House,

You have the Senate,

You have the White House.

Why aren't you changing it?

Well,

You know,

We just can't,

Blah,

Blah.

And then five years later,

I'd say,

Well,

Why aren't you doing this?

Oh,

Well,

You know,

I think you really got a good point,

Marianne,

You ought to go raise a lot of money and you really start lobbying for that.

And I realized,

You bastards aren't gonna do anything about this,

Are you?

You're not gonna do anything,

Are you?

And at this point,

It's not about influencing people within a system that is so institutionally resistant to fundamental change.

It's about replacing them.

And that's why I'm running.

There is so much,

And what you said,

It's just,

You know,

Being,

First of all,

And I know many listeners,

Being a mother myself,

I,

You know,

Remember that time of,

First of all,

The challenges of that,

I could go into that for a whole long story of just postpartum and then going back to work and not feeling like it was enough time.

And I can see myself as in that category of privilege just because of the way I've lived my,

You know,

Today in my life.

But I have to say that what you're bringing up is so important and powerful.

And what I would like to ask you is,

You talked a lot in your book and I was literally,

I had so many notes,

I kept saying,

Oh my gosh,

Yes,

Yes,

Yeah,

Like I have hundreds of notes.

I went through them.

I'm like,

All right,

We're gonna distill this down.

One of the things you talk about that I just don't hear elsewhere is this concept.

It's shouldn't be shocking,

But of personal responsibility.

And we'd just love to talk for a minute,

How you take this very integrative approach of,

You know,

How can we each take personal responsibility rather than feeling like,

Oh,

You know,

What can I do?

And I just wanna look at that for a moment because for many people listening,

I know they come from that world of wanting to personal growth transformation.

And I think it's important we all hear,

We do have a part and it starts first with ourselves.

I don't know where you wanna start,

But that to me just stuck out.

Well,

We have been trained to farm out our citizenship.

We have been trained to think that there's this political class and they'll handle it.

And our institutions are strong enough and we'll show up every two years to vote,

Every four years to vote,

But basically I'm not political.

Well,

I'll let other people handle all that.

Well,

I think that the last few years have shown to us that a democracy cannot thrive when people,

We the people are not vigilant on behalf of our own rights and opportunities.

It's not like somebody just came and stole those things from us.

It's more like we left all the windows open,

We left all the doors open so that when a thief walked into the house,

We should have said the minute they put their foot in the door,

Hey,

What are you doing here?

You don't belong here.

This is what belongs to the people and we didn't.

And so we were saying to ourselves,

Well,

I'll vote every two years or every four years,

But meanwhile,

Corporate lobbyists were in the offices of our Congress people and senators every hour of every day.

So people who are very vigilant on behalf of their own selves and have the musculature to do that and know how to do it and know how to stand up for themselves,

Know how to have boundaries,

Had just forgotten that you have to be that way for your country.

I'm standing up for my country.

I'm standing up for my democracy.

I'm gonna have boundaries when anybody tries to come at it.

And so we instead subconsciously said,

Well,

I'll let other people do that.

Well,

Guess what?

Other people got seduced and other people got co-opted and other people got bought off.

So where does that leave you?

It leaves you in a country that is now at risk,

At risk of losing the precious freedoms.

I don't think that the average American is necessarily registering what it means that there are people who are banning the grapes of wrath,

Banning to kill a mockingbird.

What makes you think if somebody would say that somebody can't teach a class on queer black history,

What makes you think they couldn't come to a point and say,

Well,

I don't think you should have these classes on wellness because we think there should only be a certain kind of religious doctrine.

And so we don't think there should be wellness classes.

You think that's impossible because it's not.

Yeah.

Yeah,

The writing is on the wall here.

I think,

You know,

One of the things that you talk about and from your background,

I just really,

Really felt like,

Wow,

We need this.

And I'm curious,

You know,

This idea of needing a revolution of the heart.

The only real strength is love.

I mean,

There were so many things you said I quoted,

Hopefully I'll share these in the show notes.

Your quotes are just stunning.

I would love to talk about that for a minute.

What does that look like in an actionable sense?

I mean,

It makes sense to me.

You have a prolific way of explaining it and speaking.

And,

You know,

It feels like what's been missing has been heart and has been this real connection at the deepest level.

And I just,

I'm curious,

What does that mean?

How do we become part of this revolution of the heart?

How do we tap into the rights that we wanna hold dear,

The strength of this love in a real way?

Well,

What we have to take responsibility for is just as in our own personal behavior,

We wanna be good people.

Yeah.

Was that the compassionate thing to do?

Was that the integrist thing to do?

Was that the high-minded thing to do?

Was that the generous thing to do?

These are the kinds of questions that we ask ourselves regarding our personal behavior.

Enlightened citizenship means you ask those same questions when it comes to public policy that is done with your tax dollars and in your name.

Once you're an adult,

You are responsible for the fate of your nation.

So there was a man named Adam Smith,

And Adam Smith was the original architect of free market capitalism.

And he said that it cannot exist outside an ethical context.

Now,

What is ethic?

It means the ethical thing to do is to do such and such,

Even though maybe I'll make less money.

Even so,

Maybe it'll be less for me here.

It just wouldn't be unethical.

It would be unethical for me to do this or that.

Okay.

So what started to happen is some call it hyper capitalism,

Some call it vulture capitalism,

Some call it crony capitalism.

It's a strain of capitalism that sort of took the country by storm back in the 1980s.

And it's where business is seen as having no ethical responsibility.

So if there's money to be made,

But yeah,

It puts some carcinogens in the food,

But it's good for business.

Yeah,

Those pesticides.

Yeah,

There's some chemicals there that harm a child's brain,

But it makes good money.

Yeah,

It's probably more than we actually need,

Those bombers and stuff,

But it makes a lot of money.

Yeah,

It's probably not good for the planet,

But it makes a lot of money.

Yeah,

People are gonna die because they're not gonna have healthcare,

But it makes a lot of money.

So it makes a lot of money for who?

For the insurance companies,

For the pharmaceutical companies,

Big food,

Big ag,

Big chemical companies,

Gun manufacturers,

Big oil,

And defense contractors.

And because their work within the system is based on their own short-term profits,

Rather than the health well-being of people and animals and planet,

It's government's job to be the balancing act.

Individual freedom,

Including financial,

Balanced with a concern for the common good.

But those industries now,

Particularly because of a Supreme Court decision called Citizens United,

Have so much power to influence politicians,

So the money they give,

And the money that they'll give to your opponent if you don't vote the way they want you to,

That at this point,

The government's chopping the wood and carrying the water for these industries.

So you ask me,

What's the humanitarian thing to do?

The humanitarian thing to do is to say,

No,

You can't put those carcinogens in the river.

The humanitarian thing to do is you're not gonna put those carcinogens in the food.

The humanitarian thing to do is,

No,

We're gonna feed those children.

There is no reason to have child poverty in the United States.

There is no reason why there are children in this country who go to sleep at night hungry.

There is no reason why we pass policy after policy after policy that makes it much,

Much easier for people who already have a lot of money to make more money,

And much,

Much harder for people who hardly have anything to make it at all.

So one in four Americans live with medical debt.

Every other advanced democracy has universal healthcare.

We have people rationing insulin in this country.

That doesn't happen in a country that has universal healthcare.

We have 18 million Americans who cannot pay for the prescriptions their doctors give them.

So when you say,

What would love to do?

Pass universal healthcare.

Yeah.

You have tens of millions of people who are carrying these college loan debts when all they were trying to do was better their lives.

They had been told,

You get the degree,

You'll close the wage gap,

You'll be able to soar.

And now they're shackled.

I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in my 20s and to be shackled by tens of thousands of dollars of loan debt.

That would be crippling.

You meet young people in this country who are hopeless at the age of 25.

Yeah.

So what would love do?

Cancel that debt.

It should never have happened.

The government and its unholy alliance with those financial institutions should never have done that until the 60s and the 70s.

There were tuition-free colleges.

The system in Texas,

The system in Florida,

The system in California.

That's what it means to love people.

Help people get out of this constant struggle just to make it.

People's lives are falling apart.

And the mainstream media isn't necessarily covering it because they are owned by these same corporations.

Now,

Are these not nice people?

Some of them are very nice people.

It has nothing to do with nice people.

Not every rich person is a greedy bastard.

This is not about nice people versus not nice people.

But it is about systems that have become very,

Very corrupt.

And the short-term profit for huge corporate entities is placed before the safety and the health and the wellbeing of the American people.

We need a U-turn.

We need a new economic beginning.

And that's what love would do.

Help people get an education.

Help people get out of debt.

Help people be.

.

.

You have one third of American workers who are living on less than $15 an hour.

The minimum wage is $7.

25,

Hasn't been changed since 2009.

And a living wage in most American cities is between $24 and $25 an hour.

There are people deciding between their rent and their insulin.

Do I want to be homeless or be dead?

And so what the system does is it put blinders on us.

We're just not supposed to look.

And those of us in the field like you and I,

There's no religious or spiritual practice that gives us a pass on ignoring,

You know,

On addressing,

Actually a pass on addressing the suffering of people.

It's a lot of suffering in this country,

But we're just sort of pretending isn't there.

Our pretending it isn't there doesn't mean it's going away.

And then the one last thing I'll say about that.

So the suffering is either externalized or internalized.

When it's externalized,

It's anger,

Rage.

When it's internalized,

It's depression.

Addiction and things like that.

But it's the same energy.

People just can't take it anymore.

People are losing hope.

And that's really dangerous for our society.

It feels as you're speaking,

You know,

This idea of doing shadow work,

Looking at the shadows.

I know so many,

There's a lot of focus on trauma work.

And I mean,

I know listeners and people tuning in,

You know,

Those that are,

That want to really look under the rock and see,

Okay,

What is happening?

I don't wanna put my head under the covers anymore.

And I almost feel like it's like a collective shadow work.

It is a collective shadow work.

Yeah.

And that's why I'm running.

You're absolutely right.

We need a president who will do the collective shadow work.

Because that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Yeah,

I mean.

And that's why I think a qualification for the presidency now,

Rather than someone who is a good political car mechanic,

You know,

The problem is not that we don't have good political car mechanics.

The problem is the car is on the wrong road.

So what that system,

Which creates,

Maintains and perpetuates the shadow,

Would have you think is that only one of them are qualified to drive us out of the ditch that they drove us into.

And I think the qualification for the president in the 21st century is exactly what you're saying.

No,

Somebody who's gonna look in the mirror and help the American people to actually look at what needs to be looked at so we can change.

This is what works on an individual level.

So how could this not work on a conscious and a collective level?

All that a country is,

Is a group of people.

Yeah.

The same psychological dynamics prevail.

Yep.

You talked a lot about that.

It was something I have never heard said and talked about in politics.

I,

In reading this book and hearing you when I went to DC and heard you speak at West Poison Poets,

I,

My heart was just like,

Whoa,

Where has this been?

This not just personal responsibility,

But really getting A,

We all matter and B,

All of us make up the collective.

And if we're not paying attention and with ourselves and collectively and what you're saying,

We're really,

We're headed for really scary times.

I mean,

The idea of not having hope,

I think of that Dr.

David Hawkins,

The spectrum of emotions and I know despair,

Hopelessness,

Despair.

I mean,

That's like at the bottom of the range of emotions to feel that way.

And if we start to continue to feel that way collectively,

That's not,

That is,

There's no creativity and innovation and productivity in that.

I mean,

It's scary.

It is scary.

It's actually unsustainable.

And it forms a Petri dish out of which profound personal and societal dysfunctions almost inevitably arise.

Large groups of desperate people is a dangerous phenomenon and America and people are just kind of,

There's a spiral,

People are spiraling down.

Now at the same time,

There's a spiraling up that's going on,

But they're two simultaneous phenomenon.

Now,

Those of us who are interested in the spiraling up are the last people who should be sitting out the political process.

Because if you know one thing about what changes a human heart,

You're the one who has a clue as to what would change the world.

You're not the least qualified for the 21st century.

You're actually among the most qualified.

You know,

It's kind of like you were telling me before we came on that you teach at Georgetown,

Correct?

Yeah.

And that you teach about wellness coaching at Georgetown,

Correct?

All right,

So 15 years ago,

You would never have heard of that.

So what happens is that the people with an integrative approach,

Every field we go into begins to transform.

Medicine,

Academia,

Education,

Right?

So what's happening now is that we're realizing that we've never gone into politics.

And politics,

Because there's so much money and power there,

Is like,

Don't even think about it.

We'll make you look kooky.

We'll make you look crazy.

We'll come up with anything we have to say to make sure somebody doesn't say it.

Whereas you at Georgetown University,

In education,

In business,

In medicine,

They say,

Come on in.

You'll actually increase the good that we're doing here.

But there's a lot of institutional resistance within politics because just increasing the good they do isn't always the bottom line.

They have it wrapped up.

They're the political class.

We don't need your help.

We got this.

I love that,

We got this.

We got,

Oh my God,

We're six inches from the cliff in terms of the state of our economy,

The state of our democracy,

The state of our environment.

And we got this is like laughable.

They don't got this.

We got this and we gotta go there.

Well,

I'm even thinking of the we've got this.

When you say that,

There's only a very select few saying that to really have we've got this would be a shift in consciousness.

And we are not even close to that.

So you saying what we'd love to do here,

I mean,

I've been waiting to hear that question all my life about politics,

About our government,

About working together,

Thriving,

Changing,

Transforming.

I mean,

That's to me,

That is actually,

That's what's missing is coming from that place.

And it's,

You know,

I know some might say,

Okay,

Well,

Love,

How do you quantify it?

It's like,

No,

You're built in.

Love is built into who you are.

It's caring,

It's compassion.

It's very practical.

If a person's hungry,

You feed them.

That's right.

That's right.

If a child is hungry,

You feed them.

If a child needs to be educated,

You feed.

That's one of the things the system wants you to think is very complicated.

No,

It's not complicated,

Actually.

It's corrupt.

There's a difference between complicated and corrupt.

Yeah.

No,

Great example.

That's so true.

It's actually,

It's our natural,

When we're in our,

You know,

An aligned place and that's a natural instinct is I wanna help that person.

Yeah.

That's right.

But this form,

This particular form of capitalism isn't about helping people.

It's about exploiting people.

Now,

That's not inherent to capitalism in my mind.

Some people would say it is.

It's not in my mind.

But it's a particular malevolent,

It's capitalism gone off the moral rails.

Yeah.

And we have to bring it back.

And it's been so unregulated.

That's what they use their money for.

There are millions and millions,

Even billions of dollars in lobbying efforts to deregulate them so they can do whatever they want.

I mean,

The defense industry,

There was an expose on 60 Minutes recently about the price gouging of the military.

Billions of dollars more than we should spend because in the last few decades,

We just said to the defense industry,

Well,

You know,

We're not gonna look over what you do.

You do it.

And they fail audit after audit after audit.

And taxpayer money is just going to increase the shareholder value of these industries.

And that's not the majority of Americans who win from that.

Yeah.

And they say,

Oh,

We give them these tax cuts because then they'll create jobs.

They don't create,

Their business model is not to create jobs.

Their business model is to eliminate jobs.

Yeah.

And then the money goes not to reinvestment in the company or to job creation.

That money goes towards their own stockholder dividends and stock buybacks.

And the fact that some of them are nice people is irrelevant.

It has nothing to do with nice people versus not nice people.

Yeah.

Well,

You shared a story,

I think,

In the book about it was Easter,

You went to dinner or lunch afterwards with your friends that,

You know,

Such an,

I don't know if you want to share really quickly.

Because I- People in like North Carolina who- Yeah,

In North Carolina.

And I was like,

Oh,

That's a great,

That's a powerful story.

And I think if you want to share for a minute for those who haven't read the book yet,

I was like,

I love where you're coming at,

Like holding space for differing opinions,

For what some might shy away from that conflict or that uncomfortable discussion.

And I thought it was such a powerful example.

Yeah,

But what to me was meaningful about that story was we had just come from an Easter service.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure we could have experienced the field of peace together that we experienced had we not just come from an Easter service.

And of course the story had to do with the fact that I spoke at this church and then the son of the minister was driving me to brunch afterwards.

And he told me in the car that he was a Trump supporter.

And then his mother,

The minister,

Were they all Trump supporters?

I can't remember.

I think so.

But they were these really nice people.

And it was just,

It was very,

But it was interesting because to me,

The power of that story had to do with Easter.

It had to do with the fact where all of us had gone.

And I think we were all a little bit in awe of our own ability to love one another despite,

Because it became clear,

Man,

We were really on separate,

Different sides.

And we all,

You know,

Rumi's idea,

You know,

Beyond all ideas of good and bad,

Right and wrong,

There was a field.

I'll meet you there.

Having prayed together,

Having talked about the resurrection of Jesus,

Of consciousness,

Of being lifted above,

We were in that place.

And we were able to love each other and have a great lunch.

Yeah.

Marian,

I'm- That's where we need to go.

When I was reading that,

Actually it was one of the quotes about Rumi's field,

I'll meet you there.

And I was like,

How do we,

That's what I think,

What I love about what you're doing.

It's like,

How do we create that here in this country where we can be in that field together?

Well,

When Abraham Lincoln said,

With malice towards none,

With charity for all.

Yep.

We all have to get off our high horses.

Yeah.

None of us has a monopoly on truth.

You know,

Another thing that I think has been a real gift in my life,

Two women who are close to me,

One is close professionally and one is close personally.

But you know,

When somebody is a close professional colleague and you've worked together for years,

It has a personal element.

They're both,

They're both Trump supporters.

And you know what?

First of all,

You mentioned having a child,

Right?

You have a child.

Two,

Yep.

So if somebody has been good to your child,

Yeah.

I don't care what their politics are.

Yeah.

Both of those women,

We have been through the years together and both of them have demonstrated love and support.

And I'll tell you something,

You know what?

Both of them are gracious and supportive of me in this campaign.

Beautiful.

They're not gonna support me politically,

But they support me personally,

Which is a big deal.

Yeah,

It's beautiful.

Right?

And I feel that that has been a gift from God that they are in my life because it keeps me from ever going into we're the good people.

It's not like that.

Yeah.

And we all have that.

You know,

This country,

Years ago,

I moved into a house with a friend,

The platonic relationship.

And the house was kind of like an investment.

It was a very big house,

But we knew that,

You know,

It was a good thing.

And when we first moved in,

There was something that I think the real estate agent,

Somebody said,

Well,

How are we gonna figure out kind of which rooms are his and which rooms are mine or something?

And I remember saying,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

We both own the entirety of the house.

And that was a reframing.

We both own 100% of the house.

And then within that,

It organically emerged.

He wanted this area.

We wanted this area.

This area that was kitchen,

We were respectful.

We couldn't divvy it up.

It was,

We both own.

And then within that,

We were respectful.

That's how we have to look at our fellow citizens.

We all own this country.

Yeah.

All of us.

You're not gonna like everybody.

You're not gonna agree with everybody,

But guess what?

They own this country too.

That's right.

And what's happening now is like,

I heard Tim Scott on a video today.

He's a governor,

Not governor,

But a Senator from Florida.

Socialists and communists,

Don't you come to Florida?

Well,

Excuse me.

Well,

Yeah,

Socialists might wanna come to Florida,

You know,

Or transgender Americans or whomever.

It's the,

If you're a socialist American,

A black American,

A Jewish American,

A Hindu American,

Poor American,

Rich American,

Transgender American,

LGBTQ American,

Non-binary American,

It's the American part.

It's your country too.

Yeah.

And our freedom,

The whole thing of freedom,

Most of our ancestors,

Where do your ancestors come from?

Mine,

Eastern Europe.

Okay,

Came to Ellis Island probably.

Oh yeah,

Yeah.

Just like mine.

Is it your great grandparents' generation?

Yep,

On both sides.

And it was my grandparents' generation.

Yep.

Look at the freedom of it so that they could be who they wanted to be and do what they wanted to do.

And now you have Nazis with swastika flags outside synagogues and proud boys threatening people at school board meetings.

I mean,

It wake up everyone.

Yeah.

And it's,

Don't think,

Well,

The FBI will handle it.

You know,

It's something bigger than that now.

Each and every one of us,

And I think we have to fall in love again.

We have to fall in love again about with what it means that we are here.

We have to fall in love with the light and then the darkness will dissolve.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh,

Marianne,

I could,

I'm hoping we get more time.

I could just keep talking to you.

This is speaking to my heart and I know anyone listening,

I can just feel,

Is a resounding,

You know,

There's an alignment.

There's just a,

Yep,

Yes,

100%.

And,

You know,

I've,

As somebody,

And I know many just from getting notes and letters,

Having done this personal growth work,

Whether it's A Course in Miracles or other programs where it's a focus on shifting your consciousness,

Your mind,

Your,

You know,

Returning to peace,

Returning to love.

I know you've written a lot about that as well.

It's,

To me,

You know,

This idea that we accept,

We see,

You know,

Namaste,

Right?

I see the light,

I see the good,

I see the love in everybody.

The light in me sees that.

And I feel like we need a giant,

Like,

Shift in just this terminology of,

You know,

Namaste.

Literally,

You can come in any size,

Shape,

Race,

Political party,

I just see the light in you.

And I feel like that's what you are really trying to help us all do.

And it's admirable,

It's needed,

And I just,

I love you for it.

Well,

Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

I think that the system that perpetuates a kind of cold,

I wouldn't call it active mean-spiritedness.

It's not like that system wakes up in the morning and thinks how it could hurt people.

That's not the way the system operates.

It simply wakes up in the morning and doesn't think its responsibility is to help people.

Okay?

That system does not want someone like me to be in this conversation.

That system doesn't want someone talking about what you and I are talking about,

Having the reins of the presidency.

And there's this kind of Wizard of Oz thing.

They think,

Oh,

What we do is more important.

No,

What they do is that they laugh about and mock the idea that the hungry child is more important than their billion-dollar donors.

And if you and I don't go,

No,

Wait a minute,

Feeding the children will come first.

Isn't that what we do in our families?

No,

We feed the kids first.

Yeah.

We make sure the house is safe first.

We make sure the kids get to be educated first.

That's what you do.

Yeah.

And the earth itself is our home and it's everybody's children.

And I feel that that's the role of women to stand up for that.

100%.

So if anybody agrees with that,

I hope that they will support this campaign because huge amounts of money support the system as it is.

And one of the things that they do,

They have gatekeepers to make sure that you don't,

That you can't get in.

And the gatekeepers create narratives that become the gates,

Whether it's that I'm a crazy crystal lady or a kook or a mean.

They'll say whatever it is to make people think,

Or a long shot.

Wasn't Donald Trump considered a long shot?

Barack Obama,

When he's began,

Was considered a long shot.

So if anybody does feel that there's value here,

I hope they will go to maryann2024.

Com and throw in $5 or $50 or whatever is right for them.

Because if you really think that this conversation has transformational value,

Then show it.

And so it is,

Marianne.

Yeah.

And meanwhile,

I'm excited to hear that you said that you live near me.

I know.

This is so exciting.

I know.

I know.

When do I get to give you a hug in person and just say thank you?

Well,

I'm leaving tonight because I'm going to New Hampshire and I'm gonna be on the road politicking,

But I do live here.

So I would love to be in touch.

Oh,

Amazing.

Well,

I would love that.

And I just wanna thank you.

Honestly,

Your courage.

I think of the root,

Right core,

Heart,

Your bravery,

Your,

Frankly,

Taking this massive self-responsibility and saying,

I feel like it's like a mirror.

Hey,

Friends.

Hello.

Hello,

Wake up.

And I'll be honest,

I know for me,

Who has not been highly involved in politics before,

Yet when you share and speak,

It's like,

Yeah,

This makes a lot of sense.

I've done a lot of inner work.

I've worked with a lot of people to help them with their inside of who they are.

Now it's time for us.

And I know so many of my listeners also in that field of personal growth.

We gotta bring this at a collective larger level.

And it just,

It makes sense.

It makes sense.

As I hear the alarm in the background,

I think of that as like a little knock,

Knock.

This is important.

Wake up.

And this,

As you said,

It's as simple as,

You have a child that's hungry,

You feed them.

You don't think about it.

Like this is not complicated.

We all know how to be in that space of empathy and compassion and responding from there versus fear.

And just appreciate what you stand for.

I will have all of your info in the show notes.

I know Marianne2024.

Com is a great place to find you too.

You're gonna be speaking,

Donating,

Sharing.

We need as many people who feel aligned and wanna make a big impact.

And one of the ways I think particularly women,

A lot of your listeners might say,

But what do we say to people who say,

How do you pay for it?

I don't know how do they pay for their $2 trillion tax cut where 83 cents of every dollar went to the richest earners and corporations and will never pay for itself.

How do they pay for their multi-trillion dollar wars that were spectacularly wrong,

Imperialistic and failures?

How do they pay for their multi-billion dollar corporate subsidies?

Don't let them throw that stuff over you.

I mean,

I think it's really sad sometimes the way we have to mature to the point of knowing that we've been played.

Yeah.

What we do.

Yeah.

Well,

You said we've gotta take on this challenge to rise to the divine within each of us.

And I,

That is to me,

That's a mic drop.

Just leave that right there.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you,

Thank you.

What a gift.

And I'm gonna just say thank you to everyone listening.

We talk about being your you-est you.

And what came to me,

Marianne,

Is it's about being our we-est we in the pursuit of life,

Liberty,

Justice,

And joy and safety.

And just everyone listening,

Thank you for being with us.

This conversation has been one I've been dreaming of for such a long time,

Just to share you and your wisdom and your heart.

And so thank you.

And thank you to everybody for your heart in this conversation.

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