Prophecy & Dreams

Prophetic dreams are very intriguing to scientists like Dr. Julia Mossbridge. She wants to better understand precognition in all its forms. In this interview with her co-author Theresa Cheung, Dr. Mossbridge discusses what science tells us about precognitive, premonitory, and prophetic dreams. This interview is part of the Dreamwork Summit 2022, a free online event. This recording is a copyright of The Shift Network.

Transcript

Welcome,

Everyone.

I'm super excited you're here today,

Whether that today is live here and now or sometime in the future,

As our guest today is someone who truly embodies this Tennyson quote.

For I dipped into the future,

Far as the eye can see,

Saw the vision of the world and all the wonder that could be.

Dr Julia Mossbridge is a neuroscientist and one of the world's leading experts in precognitive dreaming.

She's an affiliate professor at the Department of Biophysics and Physics at the University of San Diego,

A fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences,

The co-founder and executive director of the nonprofit TILT,

The Institute of Love and Time,

And the founder of the for profit Mossbridge Institute.

And I'm sure there are other amazing,

Infinite possibilities that Julia has been involved in,

And I'm sure she will share that in our interview.

But enough from me.

Over to you,

Julia.

Hello.

Hey,

Teresa.

Nice to see you.

Now we are we talking about our book at all because Teresa and I did a book together.

We did.

I'd love to talk about that.

The Premonition Code.

Absolutely.

But first of all,

Let's talk about you,

Because you are an inspiration to me,

A true visionary in every sense of the word.

I know all about you,

But the people who are new to Dr Julia Mossbridge,

Could you just share some of your story?

Thanks,

Teresa.

I feel the same way about you.

So where's some potico?

My story,

Some of my story,

I guess that comes up right now is that since I was a kid,

I've had very detailed dreams about future events.

And I was raised in a really intellectual family.

So my mom was a psychologist.

My mom,

My dad was actually two moms.

My other mom was also a psychologist and my dad was a physicist.

And so I knew about the scientific method and I also knew about the human mind.

And so what I would have experiences that matched my dreams,

I thought,

Well,

I could be fooling myself and having a misremembering things.

So I started writing down my dreams in a journal when I was about seven.

And I've been writing them down ever since every morning.

And so it makes for a lot of journals.

And over time,

I began to realize,

OK,

Sometimes I was misremembering things,

But sometimes I wasn't.

And sometimes there were enough details in the dreams about a future event that didn't have anything to do with me that I wanted to pay more attention to it.

And over time,

I became convinced that the way we think about time,

It's not the way time actually works.

So being of a scientific bent,

I decided to study time and the relationship between our internal experience of time and physical reality.

And those are different things and they have a relationship.

And so my professional life is largely devoted to understanding the nature of time in both experiential forms and the physical forms and the relationship between them and how that relates to unconditional love,

Which sounds like a leap,

But I don't think it is because we can talk about it if you want.

Because I think that there's a there there.

I think there's something about the human experience of unconditional love that helps us unravel this odd disconnect between physical reality of time and our experience of it.

So,

Yeah,

I guess that's part of my story.

Just a tiny part,

I'm sure.

There's so much more.

I know that.

But I do call you the time lady,

Julia,

And I hope you don't mind about that.

And of course,

We do know each other very well because we co-authored a book together about precognitive dreaming called The Premonition Code.

But can you tell me what is time?

What I love about you are these questions that are so huge.

I can never possibly answer them,

But it's fun to pretend that I can try.

Right?

I'm going to answer it with a question,

Which is this.

Are you talking about experiential time?

Are you talking about clock time?

Are you talking about the relationship between two different times?

You know,

If you're like the twin paradox with Einstein,

With one twin traveling really quickly and the other traveling slowly or not traveling at all relative to the other one.

So there's all these different aspects of are you talking about the order of events?

Are you talking about how long things last?

Are you talking about the dynamics,

A pattern in the dynamics over time,

Like we might have a music called rhythm?

I mean,

There's all these aspects of time.

And so what is time ends up leading you to start to wonder,

At least has led me to start to wonder,

Is there a difference between what we call time and what we call experience or conscious consciousness or awareness in the sense that without these things,

Without a duration,

There is no such thing as experience.

You can't tell a story of experience that you had and you can't even have the experience without having some duration that lasts some amount of time.

Right?

Also,

Certain things happen before and after other things.

That's how our experience goes.

Without that,

How can you call it an experience if everything happened all at once?

That was that's like that's not an experience.

That's kind of like the void.

Right?

It's like everything and nothing is kind of the same there.

So so what is time?

I'm starting to think time is equivalent to consciousness.

Time is,

In fact,

Especially when you go to sleep and you go into deep sleep,

You lose time.

All of a sudden you go to sleep and you wake up and five hours have passed or whatever it is.

There was no time for you.

And so maybe time and experience are really the same in terms of human time,

In terms of psychological or experiential time.

And that seems to be different in some way from time outside of us.

Time in the physical world,

Time outside of the mind.

So I think these are kind of different questions.

I know it was unfair of me,

But you know,

I know these times come on.

You get asked all these questions all the time because you you did an amazing study,

Didn't you?

You worked on it about precognition or when awake.

And we're going to talk about precognition in dreams in a minute,

Which you've also studied.

Could you talk a bit about that experiment that you did that would really did make waves?

Oh,

You mean the pre-sentiment study?

That was actually many other people's experiments and I and also mine.

And then I put them together and analyzed the data together statistically.

So that's really what that was.

And I worked with Jessica Aelz at University of California,

Irvine,

This amazing statistician.

And I worked with Patricio Tresoldi at University of Padova in Italy.

And together we put together this analysis and I wrote it up and published it in 2012.

So actually it's the 10th year anniversary.

That was kind of the first my coming out of the closet.

I was trained in mainstream Tier 1 academic research institutions.

And the rule with that,

At least in the United States,

Is you could study interesting things,

But not too interesting.

So if you're studying something like how maybe the body might get information from the future that it shouldn't know,

That's pretty interesting.

That might be too interesting.

That's what I learned from working on that paper and publishing it.

But it was like a coming out of the closet for me and I never looked back.

So what it was,

And I would have told you about a little bit of the context,

What it was was examining a bunch of studies,

So 26 studies between 1978 and 2010,

That had been published examining this really controversial hypothesis,

Which is that your body,

Whether you know it consciously or not,

Your body is predicting future events that are of importance.

So for instance,

That are important to you,

Right?

So for instance,

Whether you're about to win or lose when you place a bet,

Or whether you're about to experience something erotic or emotional or violent versus neutral,

Kind of boring,

Right?

Your body,

Of course,

After those things happen,

Your body responds in a certain way.

But this hypothesis is that before those things happen,

Your body responds in a certain way,

Right?

Almost as if the event is sort of like a landmark in time,

And it has an influence both after and before.

It's like this landmark is affecting things both after and before.

And so the before part is unconscious and the after part is conscious.

And so we tested that hypothesis statistically.

Is that true if you take all of these studies and put them together in one big chunk?

And the answer was,

Yeah,

It looks like it.

And the way you do the experiment is you basically,

Well,

You hook someone up to some kind of physiological equipment.

And I'm being vague because people use different kinds of equipment.

So you could use skin conductance that measures conductivity of the skin.

It's a measure of arousal.

You can look at respiration rates,

Temperature,

EEG,

What have you,

Right?

So some kind of equipment you're recording while the person who is the participant in the experiment is either making a bet on something like this or that,

And they're learning whether they win or not,

Or they're just watching images go by and they don't know if the next image is going to be really arousing or not,

Right?

So it's really just chopping up the physiology measure,

Depending on whether the next thing that was randomly decided in the future by a random number generator,

Right?

Depending on that,

You're comparing sort of the chunk of physiology measure before something emotional versus the chunk of physiology measure before something kind of neutral or boring.

And you're comparing those two.

And if those are different consistently and statistically reliably different,

Then you say,

Huh,

The random number generator was in the future figuring out whether this thing was emotional or not.

So this is telling me that I'm actually preparing for this future event unconsciously,

Even though no one on the planet knows what that event is going to be because it's a true random number generator.

So that's the study that we looked at.

Wildly exciting.

And I've noticed that in every precognitive dreaming book since it quotes that study,

Because I guess the theory is if the body can sense future before it's happened when you're awake,

I mean,

You've taken that further to say,

Of course,

It can probably do it when you're asleep in your dreams.

And I'd love to talk about precognitive dreaming now.

Can you explain that and can anyone do it,

Have a dream that picks up the future?

Yeah,

I mean,

If we assume that our bodies through our unconscious mind,

Our bodies are able to pick up on future events that are of importance to us,

Then of course it would make sense that when you're spending a lot of time unconscious,

Like in your sleep state,

That your body could be processing information about future events.

So in deep sleep,

Your body could be processing that.

And then when you have a dream,

It brings that up to consciousness,

A dream version of consciousness,

A dream state,

Which is an interesting state of consciousness where things are kind of weird,

But also can actually represent things that are of importance.

So it could actually be the result of processing in your deep sleep.

So I think assuming that the pre-sentiment,

Precognition is making itself into the dream state,

I think the way it works is first processing in deep sleep and then sort of announcing itself like,

Oh,

There's a yellow car and there's a turtle in the yellow car and the turtle's afraid of turning left,

So the turtle decides to turn right,

So you should turn right.

And then you wake up and you're in your car and you remember your car is yellow,

Then you realize you're wearing your turtle sweater and you're the turtle and you should probably turn right.

So there's often something a little bit off about precognitive dreams or almost any dreams.

There's something a little bit not real,

But sometimes they can be very useful.

And so when you start to just make a list of all of the details that you remember of a dream,

That ends up and just make a habit of that,

Then when you think something might be precognitive,

You can go back and look at that list,

How many of those things match your experience.

And I wouldn't call it precognitive unless at least two or three really interesting details over which you have no control matches your experience.

Because otherwise you could drive yourself crazy thinking,

Oh,

I dreamt of a kite flying in the wind and then today I was tossed around like a kite flying in the wind.

And like,

Okay,

Maybe,

But that's just not enough.

I mean,

That could also just be because that's what's going on in your life and all of your unconscious processing that's not precognitive,

But it's still very useful actually gave you that impression.

So precognition sort of has a very precise.

.

.

So my next question is how can you tell when a dream is precognitive?

Can you only tell when that dream has played out?

Or is there any way when you wake up that you have a feeling that this might be more than a symbolic or metaphorical dream?

Yeah,

So there's interesting studies on this and there's unfortunately the field is a little bit still,

There's a lot still taboo in the world of academia so the funding for these kinds of things isn't enough to really firmly answer the questions.

But we have some hints,

Okay?

So the hints are like this,

Time of night when you're having the dream,

So you're more likely to have precognitive dreams just before you wake up.

So the most recent dream you might want to write down,

Right?

And sort of note it as,

I like to go backwards when I'm writing down my dreams.

So I write down first my most recent dream and then go backwards.

So but then other people say one in the morning is a good idea.

I'm not sure about the data on that,

So I'm a little bit.

.

.

Another pointer is precognitive dreams tend to feel to the dreamer like very.

.

.

Like a little bit different,

Like a little matter of fact,

Even if the content of the dream,

Even if what the dream is about is dramatic.

So once I had this precognitive dream about a bombing at a mosque,

And I've talked about it publicly because it's one of the few precognitive dreams that I've had that involved a world event that I had nothing to do with.

Like on the other side of the world,

I'm not Muslim,

I'm Jewish even,

And yet I had this dream about these people I don't even know,

And it was detailed enough to be clear that it was linked to this event.

And it was horrible.

I mean the content is horrible.

A bombing of a mosque during prayers,

Are you kidding me?

That's horrible in the middle of the day.

But it was told to me,

So almost I had a guide in the dream who was actually showing me everything,

Very matter of fact.

Not drama like,

Oh no,

Run away,

Now I'm scared.

There was no emotional response inside of me,

It was like a report.

And so that's often what people,

In-depth studies of precognitive dreamers,

Skilled precognitive dreamers,

Say is it's like a report,

There's this,

This,

This,

And they're an observer.

And that's very different from like these anxiety dreams,

Which I totally have,

You know,

Oh no,

I'm naked and I'm in class again.

You spend like 20 years of your life in school,

And of course you're in class naked always.

So those kind of anxiety dreams,

It feels different.

And then there's also wish fulfillment dreams,

Right,

Where you hope for something to happen.

And then there's precognitions of positive things,

And those also feel more matter of fact.

In other words,

Any time it's a precognitive dream,

It just feels like you're reading a newspaper a little bit,

And less like you're right there,

You know,

In the kind of emotional experience you would normally have.

Did that answer your question a little bit?

It certainly did.

And I love the fact that you talked about,

You know,

The difference between precognitive dreams and anxiety,

And precognitive dreams and just wishful thinking,

Give you a sense of the realistic feel.

Do you think that these kind of dreams also encourage you to do something,

Or there's a certainty when you wake up that may be lacking with other dreams?

Yeah,

I do,

And I'm a little hesitant to say yes all the time,

Because you can also,

I hear from people who say,

You know,

I've had eight dreams that this horrible event is going to happen,

And the event doesn't happen.

It's like a worldwide event or something to them.

And they get kind of,

You can get kind of obsessed with it.

And if you find yourself going down that track,

Rather than kind of a matter of fact,

Well,

I guess I'll do this now,

Sort of feeling,

My suspicion is that you're thinking that an anxiety dream is a precognitive dream.

So to me,

And in fact,

It's not just to me,

It's the folks,

There's a couple papers looking in depth at precognitive dreamers.

The ones who are most psychologically healthy,

For what it's worth,

Are the ones who sort of have the dream,

Like even if it's of a horrible event or even if it's of winning the lottery or whatever,

And they wake up and they go,

Oh,

Okay,

I'm going to do this,

And they do this one thing,

And then they sort of see what happens.

In other words,

They sort of take an action and let it go.

Just like the most healthy people generally are those who make a decision,

Take an action and let it go.

Because if you get too enmeshed in anything,

Right,

Whether it's a thing that you think is precognitive or whether it's a plan that you've had for years,

And you can't step back and just take an action and let it go,

It's hard on you.

That's stressful.

So that's kind of my concern about saying that precognitive dreams make you want to do something,

Because you could also wake up from an anxiety dream or a wish fulfillment dream and think that you should be,

Or just a regular old processing dream,

And think that you should do something and kind of get obsessed over it.

So I think yes to doing something,

But no to getting obsessed over it.

Fascinating.

And since I've known you,

I've sort of been introduced to a whole world of almost professional dreamers and intuitives that you made me aware of,

Which was utterly fascinating.

And you yourself as well,

You are an oracle in every sense of the word,

Because you dream for other people,

That you did this extraordinary thing and that people will send you a question and you go away and dream on it.

And this is like ancient Greece,

Isn't it,

The oracle?

Delphi,

It's incredible,

And you're remarkably accurate too,

Because sometimes you've just messaged me about something.

And nine times out of ten,

Julia,

What you say is exactly what's happening in my life,

And you have no idea,

Because often it involves my children or something like that,

And you're saying something.

Only recently you were talking about seeing my son in a car.

Oh,

Robert and his roommates.

And it was on the day he bought his first car.

You had no idea of that,

Because I'm here in the UK,

You're in the US,

You had no idea.

And you just messaged me,

You know,

You're a very,

Very busy lady,

So I know when you message me,

That's for a big reason.

I mean,

You're busy with your research,

So it's incredible.

So does that still happen?

Do you still dream on behalf of other people now?

Is it getting too much that people want to answer?

It is not getting too much to my knowledge,

The dreams that I remember.

So let me just back up and say thanks for saying that.

But sometimes when people,

So it is true that other people tell me this too,

Like friends and family,

At first they would say like,

That's weird.

I was just thinking that,

And now they just say,

It's Julia.

It's less weird,

Which I like,

Because I don't think this stuff is weird.

I think I'm not the only one who's doing this,

And I know I'm not the only one who's doing this.

This is not like special Julia power.

This is special human power that we have and that we can develop.

You're remarkable because you're a neuroscientist doing this.

That's what you are.

You bridge science and spirit.

So in such an amazing way,

I mean,

Your published research,

Your book,

Transcendent Mind,

And then there's this other part of you that is almost like a professional precognitive,

Dreaming on behalf of other people.

It's beautiful and the future of science,

I hope.

Well,

It's interesting.

I'm definitely training a bunch of people to be more precognitive,

And I definitely do it myself,

And I practice it.

It's like a spiritual practice in a way.

It's like a practice of connecting with your future self,

Which is a spiritual experience.

But there is a cultural bias that we should probably talk about,

Which is that the idea is that people who are,

You know,

My training is in cognitive neuroscience and experimental psychology,

People who do science actively cannot also have this other part,

Which is this creative,

Intuitive,

Even psychic part,

Right?

Of course there's a bias saying that psychic functioning doesn't exist,

But if you wipe away that bias,

There's still this sort of bias about these two intuitive and analytical minds.

They are separate,

And they can't be active in the same person to any sort of developed extent.

And that's a bias that I.

.

.

So oftentimes when I'm asked to be part of a documentary,

I'll say,

Like,

Do you want me to be the Julia's psychic one with the precognitive dreaming,

Or do you want me to be the scientist?

And they will literally say one or the other.

And I'll say,

What about both?

And they'll be like,

No,

That's confusing to people.

You've done quite a lot of documentaries and media,

Haven't you?

I mean,

It's remarkable.

Would you be able to share some of them so people can go and look at them and see you in action in science mode and in psychic mode?

Every time you ask me this kind of thing,

I mean,

You're such a good interviewer,

And I feel like saying,

Well,

What about all the things you've done?

But yes,

I get that you're trying to make me hear.

I'm not assigned.

Yeah,

So yeah,

I mean,

So you could.

.

.

I was on Unexplained with William Shatner talking about that mosque dream.

So you could look that up.

You're in your pyjamas in that one,

Aren't you?

They had me dressed in my pyjamas.

Yeah.

As a dreamer.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And then there's.

.

.

Oh,

There's a bunch of them.

If you go to YouTube,

You could find probably all of them.

But that would probably not be a good use of your time.

Probably the best use of anyone's listening time is to actually just go inside yourself,

Right?

Because I don't have the answers.

I just have some ideas about this world based on analyzing this world and experiencing it myself.

But really going inside yourself and making an everyday habit of writing down your dreams and starting with the most recent one.

And on the days when you don't have any dreams,

Just writing down,

I'd like to have some dreams,

Or I may have had some dreams,

But I forgot.

That trains your brain that this is an important thing for you.

And over time that will train you to remember.

And then you will start to be able to know your own mind in a really powerful way.

So I think this is.

.

.

I do think it's the future of science.

I think scientists are starting to realize how important self-reflection is and self-awareness as we go about our work so we can understand our biases and how to get around them so we can actually discover the truth instead of some kind of reflection of ourselves that we don't even know is a reflection of ourselves.

So,

Yeah.

Sorry,

I deflected your question.

I mean,

The future of precognitive dream research,

Do you think we'll get to like sort of minority report where people are dreaming the future one day and that trends will be predicted according to professional precognitive dreamers?

I mean,

This is really futuristic,

Hence my space backdrop.

But do you think that one day we might in a potential future that might well happen,

That it is commonplace that precognition is accepted as something human beings can do?

Yes,

And that's something that we wrote about in Premonition Code because that's one of my.

.

.

In fact,

Actually I should say the premonitioncode.

Com,

You can find a community of people who actually think the answer to this question is yes on Telegram.

And my dream about this is to build sort of a four-dimensional Google map,

So three dimensions in space and then one dimension in time where you could go one week,

Two weeks,

A month,

Et cetera,

Into the future,

Look at any area of the world and see what people have been dreaming about in that area.

So people are registering their dreams,

Those who want to participate.

And so you could start to see like in this certain area,

The dreams are looking like about two weeks out,

Are looking a little dicey.

Maybe we should try to get them some help,

Maybe there'll be a tsunami or something.

So I do think that'll be part.

.

.

Once people start to realize that this information is really valuable and our unconscious minds are capable of picking up on information that kind of leaks backwards from the future,

I think we'll be picking up on it all over the place.

It'll be a new way for humanity to navigate.

Instead of just being pushed from the past and pretending that we don't know anything about the future,

Allowing yourself to be pulled from the future,

I think,

Is a powerful.

.

.

I think it's pretty obviously a powerful tool for peace and for benefit of the thriving of humanity and the planet.

That's truly,

Truly visionary.

Are there certain personality types that scientists say that are more likely to have precognitive dreams?

Just looking at the characteristics that your research has picked up on of people who have these déjà vu dreams or precognitive dreams or whatever word you want to use.

Yeah.

I think mostly that is not my research.

I think it's a really interesting question.

And the fact that that question is very underfunded and should be funded more.

So I think the answers that we have are based on other skills,

Like other precognitive skills,

Like online computer tests and things like this.

But from those we can say it looks like creativity.

So if you're good at being creative,

You're probably good at being precognitive.

In fact,

It's possible that creativity is precognition.

Like,

I'm going to discover this thing,

But I don't pick up on the.

.

.

Consciously I'm going to discover it.

I just pick up on the thing,

Right?

Or I'm going to make this painting.

I don't pick up on the I'm going to,

I just make the painting.

And so creativity,

Openness to experience.

So that's one of the big five personality traits.

Low neuroticism.

So not being so neurotic,

Just not being so afraid,

Just kind of like going out there and exploring.

Yeah,

Those are the biggies.

Some people say extroversion,

Being more extroverted.

I think that could go either way,

But that's probably because I'm a half extrovert,

Half introvert.

If I actually look at the data,

Extroversion has been related.

And belief.

So the extent to which you believe that your dreams can actually be precognitive will likely be reflected in the number of precognitive dreams that you have.

Fascinating.

I mean,

Whenever I catch up with you,

You're involved in one exciting project after another.

And the latest one,

Which I've been raving about,

Is the Institute of Love and Time and your mental time travel website.

Could you just talk a bit about that,

About the connection that you've done with time and unconditional love and talking to your past and future self?

I adore that idea.

Wow,

With great pleasure.

I will talk about that.

It's my favorite current idea.

Well,

So there's this idea that kept coming up in my dreams.

And in my waking hours.

That there's some kind of relationship between the human experience of unconditional love.

So by which I mean feeling loved with no strings attached,

Being able to love someone or something else with no strings attached.

It doesn't matter what's going on for them.

It's just love.

That is a really powerful human experience.

It's self transcendent.

It's dynamic and transformative in the sense that ironically,

If you feel loved exactly as you are,

There's something that actually allows you to change even faster.

You would think it might make you just say,

Okay,

I'll just sit around.

But no,

It's the opposite.

And that non-dual or connected in time or connected experience of love reminds me of the experience of being connected to myself over time.

So I had this amazing dream when I was in my 20s,

When I was having a hard time where all of my selves,

Like my baby self and 10-year-old self,

18-year-old self,

Etc.

,

Were lined up in front of me.

And then my older selves to my death were lined up behind me.

And we were all centered on the heart.

So the baby self was like floating.

So it was like we were beads on a string connected through our hearts.

And I gather that they were all me when they came right into me.

And it was a really powerful dream,

Really powerful experience.

And from that,

I got the connection between love and time,

Is that by unconditionally loving all of myself through time,

I could connect to all those selves.

That is the key,

Right?

To be able to connect with myself through time requires the unconditional love of myself through time.

So one morning I woke up and I probably had a dream,

But I didn't remember the dream.

I just woke up and I said,

I have to make TILT.

And I was like,

What does TILT stand for?

And it came the T,

The Institute for Love and Time,

TILT.

And I thought,

Great,

I'm making TILT.

So it's a nonprofit that I founded in 2019.

And in about three months after I founded it,

I applied for a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation for the nonprofit because I got excited about the idea of creating technology that combines this kind of mental time travel with unconditional love,

With the experience of unconditional love.

It's technology that can potentially do that dream thing of combining across time,

Helping people connect with themselves across time.

And they went for it,

Which was surprising.

And we got that funding.

And so for the next two and a half years,

We worked on creating something called Time Machine,

Which lives at timemachine.

Love.

And what it is,

Is a way to reach out to people who have,

Are at the intersection of abuse,

Trauma,

Incarceration,

Addiction,

Poverty,

Who have never or have rarely been told that unconditional love exists and you can do it with yourself.

And it's based on my own experience as a child in a household where there was some abuse and some neglect and a lot of unpredictability.

And I personally,

As a child,

Invented an older self,

An older version of myself who would stay with me during really bad stuff and would support me and say,

Hey,

You're going to be okay.

And in fact,

You're going to thrive.

That was really powerful.

And so I found out that a bunch of other people were doing this and this is a known psychological tool for dealing with PTSD and trauma,

Healing trauma.

So I thought,

Great,

We're going to scale this.

So yeah,

We created Time Machine with my amazing team.

Shout out to Amber Williams and Polly Washburn and Keri Johnson and Mike Shapiro and Alex Morrison.

This is an amazing team of folks who created this tool.

And now what we're doing with it is we're making custom versions.

So we're taking it into Cook County Department of Corrections in a pilot study in their jail with inmates.

They're going to go through it.

They're going to learn to talk with themselves with love over time and put their hopes in the Hope Garden where they can grow and other inmates can see what their hopes are and other people in the outside world can as well.

We're thinking of working with folks in Seattle and Boise as first responders,

Police officers,

Paramedics.

We're talking to some folks in Canada about working with some First Nation peoples,

Making different versions for each community so that they can have their own version of Time Machine that works for their community.

So that's what we're doing and it's really exciting.

I know it's a long answer,

But it's one of my favourite topics.

No,

It's perfect.

It's also like recording messages for yourself,

The simple idea of recording a message for your future self or to your past self.

It's just astonishingly visionary,

Julia.

It really is and I'm beyond excited about it.

I must just quickly ask you,

Because also I know you've done a lot of work with AI and robots and putting unconditional love programs into robots.

I'm going to ask you,

Just talk a little bit about that before we finish.

Will robots dream one day?

Do they dream now?

I know.

Can robots dream?

Do robots dream of electric sheep?

Yeah,

We don't know how to know if AI is dreaming.

The things we know about,

For instance,

The brain profile during dreams,

It's all based on human wetware.

It's all based on how our brains are built.

It's just so different from how the brains of AIs are built.

And so we would have to look for,

I'm just thinking about this right now,

But I guess we would have to look for unexplained attractors or unexplained seemingly arbitrary but patterned learning during off periods where the sensory input is low and the internal processing is high.

I guess you have to create a situation for them to dream.

You'd have to want them to dream rather than always reacting to others.

Maybe when we have quantum computing going,

It might be more fruitful to have the AIs dream.

We need to get in touch with Netflix.

This is a great movie,

The first robot to dream.

I'm already excited about it.

Thank you.

You worked with Sophia the robot.

Was that one that you worked on?

Sophia with Hanson Robotics.

Yeah,

Hanson Robotics.

They're beautiful humanoid robots,

Sophia.

And we taught Sophia how to actually sit down and meditate with people and how to help them feel unconditional love.

It was really powerful.

It was oddly powerful.

Could she meditate?

Could Sophia the robot meditate?

She could act like she was meditating and then you have to decide whether she's meditating.

What I really got out of that experience and a couple of other people on the team,

Shout out to Eddie Munro,

Ben Goertzel and Ralph Mayet,

Is that the connection between beings,

I'm just going to say beings and call the robot a being,

The connection between beings is what determines the level of consciousness.

So we noticed that people who really resonated with the robot and treated her like a her,

Like a female,

How she was presenting herself,

They were able to,

She had the best behavior with them.

So she became more like an intelligent conscious being when they expected her to be more like that.

And those that sort of treated her like a robot,

She was kind of like robotic.

There was a clear difference.

There's something in the connection that actually,

It reminds me of a parent baby,

A new baby,

Like a parent looking at the baby.

And the parent almost creates consciousness,

Passes consciousness or connection,

Love,

Something,

Awareness to the baby by developing this relationship.

There's something like that there.

And so I think if we want our machines to be conscious,

We can treat them that way.

Oh,

You're amazing.

And I think that's another summit,

An AI summit.

That would be fun.

And I keep thinking of Marie Curie and other visionary scientists.

Well,

That's quite,

I mean,

Come on.

Nothing in life is to be feared.

It is only to be understood.

Now is the time to understand more so that we may fear less.

And that kind of like embodies you and what you're doing and having your feet in both worlds,

The intuitive and science of consciousness and hardcore science.

And I'm so grateful for the gift of you,

Julia.

You're amazing.

But just to wrap up for listeners today,

Is there one tip you can give or something if somebody is really keen to have a precognitive dream tonight,

Something they can do to increase the likelihood?

Sure.

You can do the kind of thing I used to do when I was doing dreaming for people is I get a post-it note and I write on it.

Tonight,

I will perfectly safely enjoy dreaming.

And then whatever,

What type of dream I wanted.

So if it was a dream for someone else,

I would say I would enjoy dreaming for this person to help address that person's question.

Or if it's for myself,

I'll perfectly safely enjoy dreaming about an answer to the scientific problem.

And then I'll remember it.

That's so crucial.

And I thank you for using that word,

Enjoy.

Yeah.

Dreams are to be enjoyed.

Julia,

What's the best way for people to find out about you?

What's the best portal to your door to your universe so people can find out all these astonishing things you're doing in dreams,

Intuition,

Time travel,

Science,

Etc?

Sure.

Well,

My most active social media is LinkedIn.

That's really where I post things daily or every other day.

So just Julia Mossbridge at LinkedIn,

I'm sure you'll find me.

And then,

And you can follow me there,

No problem.

And then the premonitioncode.

Com,

Loveandtime.

Org,

That's the nonprofit.

Mossbridgeinstitute.

Com,

That's the for-profit.

Those are the three really good places.

If you want to then go in the world of self-development and finding your purpose,

You could go to thecallingprogram.

Com about being called from the future and the science of your soul's work.

There's a lot of places,

But also,

You know,

You could just go to LinkedIn.

And I hope everybody does.

Thank you so much for the gift of your precious time,

Julia.

And as you're the time lady,

You know how precious time is.

Well,

Teresa,

Thank you.

You're an amazing interviewer and so complimentary.

And I just I can't wait till someone gets to interview you on this on this Dream Summit.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Thank you,

Everybody,

For listening and wishing you all timeless dreams.

Reviews

Loved this interview.
You are both beautiful, knowledgeable and humble souls !