Essential Medicine 3: What Is Healing?

In this third installment of the Essential Medicine series, Julia Mossbridge (Ph.D.) and Dr. Adam Rizvi (MD) talk about their answers to the question, "What is healing?" They draw on their experience as mystics and their expertise in science and medicine. Adam and Julia also discuss a project about healing unconscious patients using unconditional love – similar to what some would call prayer, but nondenominational in form.

Julia's error: The aorta, not the vagus, was clamped in the NDE paper.

Transcript

Hey,

Adam.

Hey,

Julia.

I mean,

Dr.

Risby,

How you doing?

Hey,

That's also fine.

Dr.

Mossbridge.

So it's time to talk again about healing and these new and improved.

It seems to be improved,

But certainly new ways of thinking about healing that we've been discussing and going a little deeper.

And today we talked about going deeper into the question,

What actually is healing?

Yeah,

Yeah,

Exactly.

Shall I just dive right in?

I don't know.

Should you feel like it?

Sure.

One of the things that I come across very often is the current way of thinking,

The current paradigm,

If you will,

Of healing having to do with the body,

Right?

So people,

Even people who recognize that there are non-physical aspects to who they are,

The thoughts and emotions and the roles that they play,

They use them as a means to an end.

And what I mean is like,

Okay,

Sure,

I'll practice this form of healing.

I'll visualize,

I'll focus on not having negative thoughts just as long as whatever's happening in my physical body changes to a way that I find acceptable,

Right?

And even that concept of what I find acceptable changes from season to season.

So for me,

Healing can't be based on what the body looks like or what state it's in in any particular moment.

It's gotta be about something much deeper.

Yeah,

I love the way that you put that because that's exactly,

It's like saying,

I'm only going to consider myself healed if this particular checklist is checked off.

And you're the one writing the checklist.

So there's no,

It's like you're on an island.

There's no connection between you and the universe or you and your food or you and your thoughts or anything.

It's just you.

And it feels like,

Okay,

Let's just play the game.

Like let's say you're the rest of the universe.

And there's this one little aspect of the universe that is a person and that person says to you,

I'm only going to be healed.

I'm only going to do this thing,

Whether it's having a positive intention or eat the right foods or workout or whatever it is,

Unless within 20 days,

This checklist is done.

Like how do you feel as the universe?

I mean,

Do you feel like,

Oh,

Okay,

Great.

Or do you feel like,

Gosh,

I feel like maybe not included in this process.

Oh yeah,

It's the ultimate cold shoulder.

It feels like saying like,

I'm only going to do this if I can prove to myself I'm in control.

You know,

I'm only going to do this if I can prove to myself that I have ultimate power.

And what I think healing is,

Is sort of the inverse of that is the recognition of connection.

So I feel like when people do that,

When they do this,

Like the movie,

The secret,

When they do that thing about like,

Okay,

Every day I'm feeling vital in my body and,

And all my cells are breathing light and I no longer have pain in my hip or whatever it is.

Yeah.

And then every day they're noticing whether that occurs or not.

Yeah.

It's like removing them further and further from connection with themselves and with other people.

I thought the same thing actually in,

In,

In that movie.

And I think related movies,

I can't quite say whether it was in what the bleep,

But in similar,

In similar movies,

The idea is your you've chosen,

You've,

You've assigned a,

A particular feedback loop that involves what's happening with the physicality as your only means for knowing whether what you're doing works or not.

And it,

I don't see why you would narrow yourself so much to such a tiny sliver of,

Of reality.

For me,

If I,

If I broaden that out,

If I decide,

Okay,

I recognize that I'm only considering one thing to judge whether what I'm doing is effective.

Let me break that box down.

Let me open things up.

And one of the first next steps I would offer to open up into is a felt sense of peace,

Whether there is resistance to what is or not.

If,

If you can get to a place where you have something going on with your body,

Let's say you've got a torn ligament or a sprain or something,

Maybe a little bit deeper,

Some auto-immune condition.

If you can come to a place and realize that the work that you're doing leads to a genuine sense of peace and a genuine sense of connectedness with the world around you,

Then you're not suffering anymore.

I think that speaks to a deeper sense of healing than whether or not the quote unquote disease your body is manifesting has changed in its form.

Right.

It's this,

I think,

Okay,

So two things competing for my mouth here.

One is.

.

.

That happens to me a lot.

One is the concept of illness as proof that you've done something wrong.

You and I have talked about this before,

Right?

This idea is it's almost a puritanical idea of like,

God's punishing you,

You're ill.

If you were doing everything right,

You wouldn't be ill.

And how that gets perverted into so healing is about if you,

If you cure that cure,

That physical illness,

Then you are curing your relationship with God or the rest of the universe,

Because that was a manifestation of the universe's displeasure with you.

And so that feels like so backwards compared to my own experience of how things work.

So my own experience of how things work is there is every single person's life without exception,

There are ups and downs,

Both psychological and physical ups and downs.

And those are just true.

Like that's what's true about being in a human body.

You know,

That's just the situation.

But what differentiates someone who feels healed from someone who doesn't feel healed to me is do they know that experience of unconditional love?

So that's the second thing that I was reminded of when you were just speaking.

The unconditional love,

You know,

I've done some research with unconditional love and robots and unconditional love and hypnosis,

But we always defined it in the same way,

Which is many thanks to Jim and Christina Grodi for their help with this definition.

But it is the heartfelt desire for the highest good in the love in the one that is loved without any expectation of return and without any strings attached or any need for merit.

So essentially,

It is loving all that is without any requirements.

So those who that's powerful,

Isn't that powerful?

That's really powerful.

I just wanted to say that and take a moment for all of us to really get that and feel that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And when I'm in that state,

Nothing can hurt me.

Unconditional love literally is the magic pill.

Like,

I don't care what your diagnosis is.

That's the cure.

Yeah,

That's right.

Right?

I mean,

It's the cure and it's the it's the expression.

Yes,

That's right.

It's the expression of it.

It's it's it's one of these causal loops or these chicken and egg situations.

It's both the treatment for feeling unhealed.

And it's how you feel when you are healed.

Yeah.

You feel unconditional love for yourself and others.

And to to be healed,

You feel unconditional love for yourself and others.

This is why I have always found that the path of spiritual growth would regardless of what tradition or lack thereof we follow,

Is so intimately tied with healing and the concept of healing.

If you go far enough down each particular path,

You'll end up in the same place.

And I think we're this is what we're talking about.

It's unconditional love.

There's and for me,

Unconditional love connects with if you just take that feeling and really reflect on it and have a felt experience of it.

It is it is a complete dropping of resistance to everything in this moment,

Not just the situations,

But every thought that arises,

Every every feeling,

Every emotion,

All of what is in the fullness of this moment,

Just when there's no more pushing back against.

But instead,

There's a welcoming and an allowing that that's also an expression of unconditional love.

For me,

What I just said that you could probably take that from some popular spiritual book like that's because those two paths come together in that respect.

They do.

And,

You know,

Whenever you and I are talking together,

We're so simpatico,

It's easy for me to feel in that state of unconditional love for myself and others.

I have no resistance to even love.

No,

Do you know?

And I feel the same way with my husband and with my son and with my friends and with people that I feel very,

Very connected to already.

And but what about those times I think it's worth talking about what about those times when like something going wrong physically can really turn me away from remembering that like having gone through menopause over the last couple of years,

If my hormones all of a sudden go nuts,

I can find myself yelling,

Unconditionally loving everyone in my family and yelling like crazy at them.

Because I feel at the mercy of this physical change and it is confusing and it seems to control me in certain ways.

And yet I just think it's important to talk about how physicality can cause you to drift from that,

From that awareness of unconditional love and no separation between any kind of expectations or meeting of requirements and sort of the reality of the day to day.

And what I found is that the more I can acknowledge that and unconditionally love myself for yelling or unconditionally love myself for messing up at work or whatever it is,

The more I am capable of being in that state of unconditional love even when I'm having physical problems.

I mean my point is it feeds on itself.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Actually something that you're saying reminds me of something.

It doesn't make sense to jump from the suffering of a particular physical ailment or physical pain straight to unconditional love.

That's nearly impossible.

There's very few people who legitimately can do that and even then I question whether it's an immediate jump.

I think there are so many stages between the two.

There's so many gradations and what you just spoke to actually is one of the things that I've put into practice with my own physical health.

When I had some back pain,

I had some back spasms several years ago,

One of the biggest aspects of my suffering was the feeling,

I wish I wasn't having this.

Why is this happening?

Why is this so long?

Why is it so painful?

When's the medicine going to kick in and why does this have to happen now?

I'm just about to do whatever it is.

There's all this built up resistance to it.

When I got to a place where I was like,

All right,

I couldn't even accept the pain yet.

I just want to share with everyone,

There's so many layers to this.

I couldn't even get to the place where I was accepting pain,

But where I did get to was I accepted that I was frustrated as hell.

I was like,

I'm frustrated and you know what?

Right now,

I'm just going to be okay with being frustrated.

And that was the first foot in the door.

Yes,

Sir.

Yes.

Just accepting what is true.

There are certain days I'll wake up just kind of depressed,

Hormonally or whatever,

It's something that I didn't like the day before.

I'll just be like,

All right,

Today's feels like a crappy day.

And as soon as I let myself say that things get better so quickly.

Yeah,

They do.

Because it's okay instead of trying to push it away.

This is nothing profound.

This is just trying to work against a culture that has for some reason convinced us that if you don't look at something,

It'll go away.

Instead of if you don't look at something,

It just gets bigger.

And it's really true that if you don't look at something,

It gets bigger.

It's true.

And I've always in medicine,

There's this idea or this phrase,

The two hit concepts or two hit hypothesis or something.

And it's usually used in the genetic context where you have a genetic predisposition for something and you have that's the first hit and the second hit is some environmental process and then then you have the manifestation.

I've sort of played with that idea but psychologically,

Which is that your first hit is the particular,

Let's say you get you're angry at someone,

Right?

That's that's your first hit.

But then the second hit,

Usually people don't recognize this because it gets layered on immediately.

The second hit is,

I wish I wasn't angry or God,

I can't believe I'm going through this again or God darn it.

You know,

Like there's that if any form of resistance to the anger that's that you're feeling and they often seem like they're one thing but they're not.

And as soon as in my experience,

You peel off that that topmost layer,

Like,

You know what,

I'm okay with being angry right now.

I don't,

I'm not going to resist that.

Then it's,

It's like the energy of it starts to dissipate and you can actually move through it.

And that reminds me,

Do you remember this paper that came out like,

Almost maybe even 15 years ago,

A while ago,

I was looking at a brain activity in meditators who had learned to when they're in a state of pain,

They learned to not suffer,

They still felt the pain.

Remember this?

And it showed that there was,

Yeah,

And it compared to people who hadn't learned to not suffer.

It gave them the same painful experience and you could see an area of the brain was more quiescent more,

More,

More peaceful,

Quiet in the meditators that was related to suffering,

But they still had the sensation of pain,

Which is really important since,

You know,

Pain sensation really tells you that there's something wrong that needs to be fixed.

The suffering,

However,

Is not,

It's optional.

And do you remember that paper?

I do.

I do.

And I also remember a related paper that had to do with also meditators when they got to a,

When they got to a place of,

They self-reported being in a place of complete allowing of the present moment.

And if it was a Buddhist practitioner,

They would,

They would state that,

You know,

Like,

I feel like I'm in this place where there's no resistance,

Right?

What they noticed were gamma wave bursts and other forms of EEG activity called ripples or fast oscillatory activity.

And they're like way up in the 200 Hertz ranges.

And I always found that interesting one,

Because I want to kind of explore what is the gamma ray burst and why,

What,

What creates it.

But it's this idea.

I think the broader teaching for me is there is a neurological correlate to whether we suffer or not.

That's what you're speaking to.

And that we like with anything in the brain,

If you train it well enough,

It will be,

It will be a well-worn neural network.

And the more you do it,

The more,

The more momentum,

If you will,

Or the deeper the groove,

So that should something else happen,

You'll quickly slip into it and be more allowing of what is.

Yeah,

I think that was Richie Davidson's work with the gamma burst.

Is that right?

Am I thinking correctly?

That sounds familiar.

I could probably look it up.

Probably not essential for our listeners,

But anyway,

I sort of like to challenge my memory sometimes.

So I'm just starting to remember something you said about maybe five or 10 minutes ago about,

You know,

It's probably not practical to go from like some physical element or injury that's really intense immediately to accepting and getting out of suffering if you don't have the practice.

Or even if you only have a little bit of practice,

If you're not a Buddhist meditator,

Who's been doing it for 10,

000 hours or whatever,

Maybe only meditate every day for 15 minutes.

If something happens to you,

How do you get out of that so quickly?

And that reminded me of the difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind.

So I tend to think that consciously,

It takes a lot of work and practice to move to a state of unconditional love when you're in a state of pain,

Which includes anger or anything else,

Right?

But I happen to think that unconsciously,

We have a lot more resources.

And that's why I really like to work with unconscious patients.

I realized just because it's so much easier to work with someone's.

I mean,

I'm not a doctor.

But Adam and I have been doing this kind of experimental healing work without me knowing who the patients are.

Should we talk about that now?

Yeah,

Yeah,

This is a good time,

I think for people to and then we can dive a little bit deeper into into what is healing.

But why don't you share how it started and general idea of what we do?

Should I share?

Why don't you share how it started?

Because I feel like you're like on the front lines and I'm in the little dark room over here.

It's actually kind of a light room.

But anyway,

Yeah,

Yeah,

The light room.

Okay,

So this is as far as I remember what's happening.

So I was in fellowship in critical care.

And part of part of my job,

And indeed,

I'm an intensivist now I work solely in the ICU,

Is I take care of patients who are critically ill,

Hence the term.

And the majority of them are somehow near the edge of death,

Living and dying there,

They straddle that realm.

They're often on life support.

Sometimes they're not but just just as sick in many other ways.

And Julie and I knew each other,

I think through ions and had a conversation or had a lunch about working with some of these patients as a target in a remote viewing session.

Oh,

Wait,

No,

I that was how we started the remote viewing stuff.

But we kind of talked about that.

Last time,

I was thinking of the more recent stuff that you've been doing that we've been doing together with COVID patients.

Got it.

Yeah,

Got it.

Got it.

Got it.

Yeah.

So okay,

I'll just jump straight to that,

Then.

But we should finish that up.

But anyway,

I think we talked about that in episode two.

Yes,

Thank you for reminding me.

So um,

So more recently,

We started to take this idea on of I,

Where I work right now as an ICU physician,

I think of a patient.

And it could be any one of my patients.

And I just tell I just tell Julia,

Hey,

I have a patient for you.

And I don't think I've fully told you this,

Julia,

But I'm going to share it right now.

What I do,

Whether there's any validity to this,

You might be able to speak to,

I,

I take a moment in my mind,

And I hold an intention to connect this patient with Julia.

And I feel for a moment as if I'm a conduit.

And I create an open space in for however that is beneficial in any way,

So that this patient can be benefited by being involved in in some form of healing.

And then I tell Julia,

Julia,

I have a patient and I don't say anything else.

Not a just that I have a patient.

And then maybe Julia,

You can take it over from here.

Well,

It's super interesting.

No,

You haven't told me that before,

It's super interesting,

Because we've done this five times now.

So it's a relatively new thing over the past eight weeks.

And what's interesting is you'll get a little text from you that says either I have a patient or we have a patient or there is a patient,

Like,

Those are the only variations I get from you.

But each time when I read that text,

I get a feeling with it.

And they're different.

Now,

I don't know,

You know,

Of course,

I don't know about these patients.

So I don't know if my differentness of feeling corresponds to something different that could be traced to the people in some specific way.

I don't know.

But what I do know is that when I see those words,

I feel okay.

I feel like,

All right,

I'm going to be doing a healing today.

And I set aside,

I only set aside about 15 minutes,

Because I'll tell you,

Working with people intentionally when they're unconscious,

And these are all unconscious patients,

Intentionally while they're unconscious,

It's so easy.

They're unconscious.

And so they don't have anything to get in the way of working together.

So I first,

What I do is I set aside the time.

And there comes to be a time that it feels like the right time during my day.

And so I do it at that time.

And sometimes I feel a lot of urgency,

Sometimes I don't.

But I do it.

And what I do is I meditate first.

And then I do what feels like the appropriate thing to connect with that person's non conscious mind.

And by that,

I mean,

I don't know what I'm doing here.

So I just let my intention guide me to do what feels like the right thing.

And I bathe myself in unconditional love,

Like I'm,

I explicitly surround myself with unconditional love,

So that any that is so that I can't cause harm.

Because I've learned enough from doing other work that when you intend to connect on a non conscious level,

It's much more connecting and effective than other than other ways.

And it can have powerful effects.

And so I want to make sure my effect is not negative.

So I bathe myself in unconditional love.

And I have the intention that whatever I do,

That it only is experienced as unconditional love.

And then I make the intention to connect with the person's non conscious or unconscious,

Whatever you want to call it.

Usually what happens is I get a sense of the person.

Now,

I don't know if this sense is correct,

But I'll write it down on a piece of paper.

Sort of like interesting things that I noticed about the person or their energy or I don't know that word energy is unsatisfying to me or their personality.

The sense of what's up with them what they wish for.

It could all be bogus,

Right?

But who cares,

I write it down because that helps me continue to connect with them.

And I then at some point will have this experience of it's time to just turn on the love light,

You know,

Just turn on the unconditional love light.

And some patients,

It's like a big exhale,

Like,

Ah,

It feels like they're saying thank you.

Other patients feels like they're like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I knew that was there.

I was already hanging out in the love light.

Do you want to go dance around?

Sure.

Okay,

We'll go dance around.

They feel like they need absolutely none of my help.

And I'm just there to say hi and just give them some company while they're unconscious.

And then when I'm done,

I say goodbye and close out and voila,

You know,

It makes afterwards I feel really good.

I don't feel drained.

I feel like I just took a bath and unconditional love.

So I feel groovy.

And then I said,

Out of my notes about what I feel happened and what I felt compelled to do during the session.

And do you want to speak to how that is for you when you get those notes out of them or what your experiences have been?

We can't reveal anything about the patients,

And I don't know anything about them.

But we can talk and we can speak in generalities.

Right?

Well,

I've always found the notes to be quite striking.

Let's just say without going into specifics that there have been a number of synchronicities,

A number of aspects of your notes that match up in a very striking way with the story of the patient and why they're in the hospital and aspects of their disease process that manifested symbolically in your notes.

It's hard to,

I'm not going to give examples,

But I will say that these are,

I don't have to stretch very much to draw a connection between what's happening with the patient and some of the things that you've noted,

Julia.

So I find that fascinating,

One,

But if we can consider the fact that there's a level of reality where maybe we can receive impressions from each other,

And that is a whole other episode and you live your life in those concepts,

Julia,

And that understanding.

But really,

I think there's a reason for why Julia is able to pick up on some of that stuff and the other thing that it does for me on a personal level is it's like a positive feedback loop of love.

It's something that I intend when I work with my patients always to be in a place of unconditional love.

I hold that intention and although on a conscious level,

I might not be running around doing procedures with that in my mind,

But I've started my day with that intention.

I know it's in me somehow and it will show itself through my actions and what I choose to do and how I work.

And then when I see your notes,

Julia,

It's almost like it brings,

Not almost,

It does very much bring to conscious awareness that,

Yeah,

They're unconditionally loved and I'm unconditionally loving them and that's what's present in my relationship between physician and patient.

It powerfully augments that aspect of my relationship with them.

I love that because my intention is also to have your back.

I don't want you to be alone in the healing arena.

So I kind of think every intensivist,

Is that what they're called people?

You're neuro intensive,

But every intensivist should have someone who has their back and on the spiritual level and is just doing this work of loving them and their patient.

You know,

I mean,

I feel like it can't hurt.

You shared something,

You shared an article,

Publication about a woman who had a near death experience,

Which may yet to be published.

So I won't go into the specifics,

But there was a particular way that she described how she saw a surgeon as she was having her near death experienced as being surrounded by a huge.

.

.

Yeah,

This glowing light.

And he was the one who came in and clamped her vagus,

I believe it was.

She was bleeding out.

And yeah,

There you go.

I was just,

For me,

Whether or not that's,

You know,

There's validity to it.

And I feel like there is.

That totally shifted.

When I read that,

I was like,

Wow,

What if I could walk around the ICU and be that,

Be that for my patients.

It changed how I saw myself and how I held myself and the way I walked and the way I engage with my patients.

If we all saw ourselves as these like radiant beings of light,

I think that would,

It would just do something to the way we carry ourselves.

Yes.

And I think in the future,

Healers will,

Before you leave the house,

You know,

You brush your teeth and you look in the mirror and make sure that,

You know,

You don't have anything in your teeth and that you look basically okay.

But I think in the future healers will attend to their energy before they leave the house.

They'll bathe themselves in unconditional love and they'll show up that way because we'll know that it actually has,

It actually has physical impacts.

So speaking of,

How are the patients doing?

How are those five?

Do you know?

Well,

I shared a little bit with you,

But I can share with,

With some folks.

Nothing in specific,

But are they,

Are they,

Are they all discharged at this point?

Yes,

They are all discharged.

So great.

So no,

We didn't lose any.

We haven't lost anyone yet.

Okay.

Which doesn't mean that if it's enough,

I was just about to say that I was just about to say that that's not necessarily the,

The,

You know,

Significator of whether healing has been done or not.

That's right.

So sometimes,

Sometimes a good death is healing as part of the healing process.

Human beings die.

Right.

And yeah.

Can we talk about that a little bit?

A little bit?

I would love to,

I think if there's a takeaway to this and for,

For everyone that that's listening healing rarely has anything to do with what happens on the level of form and on the level of the body.

I think that's the major takeaway.

I have seen tremendous healing where diseases on the level of what's happening physically go away and people walk out of the hospital and they feel great.

I have also seen instances of disease going away and patients walking out of the hospital and they're a mess emotionally,

Psychologically,

Their whole family,

Nothing's,

Nothing's changed,

You know,

Fundamentally.

And we can go into why that might've been,

But I want people to really grasp that what happens on the level of physicality doesn't necessarily mean healing has occurred.

And for that matter,

I've seen patients die,

As you said,

And that it,

It,

The death occurred with such sacredness with such peace and that if anyone were present in the room at that moment,

They'd feel that unconditional love.

And it is hard to say that no healing,

No true healing occurred in that moment.

Right.

I mean,

Unconditional love is the signature of healing.

That's that's quotable Julia.

Unconditional love is the signature of healing.

Yeah.

We know that it happened because of that,

Not because of physical outcomes,

But because of the experience.

And,

And you know,

What's so fascinating is we're so hung up because of the whole behaviorist era,

The whole last century,

This whole idea that you can only really tell anything is going on.

If you could see it from the outside,

We're so hung up on that.

And we're just starting to get through that in the recognition and understand,

Like it come to the recognition of when I say we,

I mean like Western scientists and doctors.

Western scientists and doctors are very slow.

And only recently have we come to the recognition that your inner experience actually matters and is real,

Even if you can't see it from the outside.

It was so obvious.

It's ridiculous.

But anyway,

For those of us who were trained up in the Western science,

That is some worldview that only the outside matters or is real in some sense,

It's a big deal to say that unconditional love is the signature of healing because unconditional love,

There is no physical or behavioral observation that you could make to say that person is experiencing unconditional love.

It's an experience period.

Literally,

You could be angrily grabbing your child from the center of the road before a car runs over them.

And that in your experience,

Unconditional love,

But someone looking on might say,

Why are you being so angry at that two year old if they didn't realize what was going on?

Wow,

That's a great example.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It reminds me of William James.

And when he talks about mystical experiences,

You know,

He's a turn of the century American philosopher.

But what he talked about was that at the fundamental core of what connects us,

What we can know to be as true,

Comes down to experience and not something on the world of form and factual,

So to speak,

That it does come down to experience.

Yeah.

And I,

You know,

He's one of my favorite heroes because of that I'm a radical empiricist,

By which I mean,

I believe the only thing that we can know about is our experience.

And I think that what we call objectivity is just multiple people agreeing on that they both have the experience,

You know.

I'm holding up my little stuffed turtle,

Like this is a turtle.

This is a stuffed turtle.

We both agree that that's a stuffed turtle.

So that's an objective fact.

But the only way we know about it is through our experience.

So what we call subjective and objective are just different numbers of people agreeing on an experience.

Wow,

That's another,

I hope you're writing this down somewhere.

That's another great quote.

Stick it all up on Insight,

Try a timer,

Let everyone else sort it out.

That's great.

Well,

Adam,

Great talking with you.

I'm super excited.

We have plans to continue these conversations and bring out a couple of special guests that we know in the healing field as being really aligned with these ideas.

So that's the future.

That's fantastic.

I'm really looking forward to it.

Me too.

Thanks for being here.

I love talking with you.

Thank you,

Julia.

Reviews

Thank you for important insights🥰🙏

Hi Julia, loved the quote “Unconditional Love is the signature of healing.”

Thank you🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻I find your conversations stimulating. As to unconditional love: it's the reason, the goal, the way...