Essential Medicine 2: Deepening The Healing Conversation

The second in what may become a series of conversations/interviews with Dr. Adam Rizvi, an ICU doctor who takes an "essential" approach to medicine. He sees patients as the whole and joyful versions of themselves. In this conversation, we delve deeper into how that has been for him during the COVID19 crisis and also some thoughts he has for other practitioners hoping to improve their own methods of connecting with patients.

Transcript

Hey,

Dr.

Rizvi.

Hey,

What's up,

Julia?

Welcome back.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's good to be back.

I'm so glad we could do this.

So many people responded to the first interview with you,

More than on any other thing I've done on Insight Timer.

I think it's really,

It was really a key moment there,

And I'm hoping we can delve deeper into some,

Some of what you said last time,

But also some,

Some new things and some,

Some questions that people had,

Frankly,

From the responses.

So if you don't mind,

I'll just start diving in.

Let's dive.

Okay,

Cool.

So first,

Just to set the context.

It was about three weeks ago when I last talked with you.

Have you had,

Have you been working on only COVID cases in the ICU since then,

Or what's it been like for you?

Good question.

Yeah,

It's been predominantly COVID cases,

I'd say in our ICU.

It's,

It varies between maybe 30 to 60% of our ICU census is COVID related.

It fluctuates.

And I'd say the rest of the hospital has a very large proportion of their,

Of their patient population as something related to COVID.

Sometimes the severity of the respiratory infection is not that bad,

But it does bring up other complications like someone who has COPD now gets a flare,

Someone who's an asthmatic,

Their asthma is a lot worse.

There's different forms that COVID has been showing up in the hospital.

Yeah,

I keep,

I keep hearing about that from different doctors saying it feels to them almost like that.

It's almost like it's intelligent,

Like it looks around and finds the weakness of the person and then that's where it shows up or something.

I mean,

I don't know.

Is that your experience?

I mean,

That's sort of what I'm gleaning.

Well,

The,

I can't comment as to the intelligence of the,

Of the virus,

But there is a sense that people who,

Who have pre-morbid conditions is another way of saying they have an illness to begin with.

If it involves the,

The respiratory tract,

They're much more likely to have a severe manifestation,

But it's surprising.

I've seen actually renal failure patients come up with some of the most severe manifestations of coronavirus.

Wow,

Totally different organ system.

Yeah,

Yeah,

It sort of begs the question of what,

What connections are there between seemingly disparate organs?

I think in the,

In the allopathic field,

We wouldn't immediately jump to connect the lungs and the kidneys,

But I think there,

There may be something there that are maybe a series of indirect connections.

Or if you step out of the allopathic worldview,

Maybe there are some connections that don't get talked about except in,

In other healing systems.

Right,

Right.

So,

Okay.

I have two questions from the audience and I don't know what order makes sense to ask them.

So I'll just tell you both.

Maybe you could answer both of them in whatever order you want.

That's great.

Okay,

Cool.

So one is,

I know that you've started sharing this with other people with the interview you shared with some of your colleagues and I think you've talked with some of your colleagues,

Nurses and doctors about this kind of essential kind of medicine where you,

Where you anchor the vision of the person that you're treating in a space of joy and in a space,

A space in which that person is whole.

And I'm curious how that's been going,

What the responses have been,

What are those conversations like.

So just getting a taste of that I think would be really great.

And then the other question is,

In this place where now you're having more and more sort of emergent and difficult coronavirus patients,

Are you still able to continue to do that practice or do you get so burnt out?

Is there some form of burnout that happens with this kind of essential practice?

Or is it alternatively ramped up?

I mean,

I'm sort of imagining what it's like for you,

But if you have a bunch of cases,

Is it hard to hold on to that or does it get even more intense or more clear?

That's great.

Okay,

I'll start with the first one.

I think to summarize it,

It's how have I been communicating with my colleagues about this?

So as with most things in life,

I look for cues from others to know how far I can go down a particular conversation.

I think we all do this intuitively,

Some more than others and some just don't care and they'll say what's on their mind.

But when I hear a nurse talk about a particular patient in a disparaging way,

I will look to correct it.

Correct might be the wrong word,

But I'll offer an alternate perspective.

So when the nurse says,

For example,

I don't think he's going to make it,

And I said,

You know,

I've seen crazier things happen.

It might be possible.

I just plant a seed that's contrary to the decision they've already made up in their mind.

Another example of a patient that I told you about,

One of the first patients I shared with you about,

He was on the brink of death.

He was connected to ECMO,

Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation.

He was being ventilated.

He was on three blood pressure medications.

We call them pressors.

Usually when you break two,

It's diminishing returns and things were not looking good.

By any stretch of the imagination,

Most attendings would say it's unlikely that he's going to survive.

And I remember having the conversation with the nurse at the time,

And I felt called with her to offer a what-if situation.

And I said,

What if he made it through all of this?

Wouldn't that be amazing?

Wouldn't that be one of the most amazing stories we could tell?

That particular patient was actually an employee.

And I said,

What a miracle story that we could share with others.

Imagine we are sharing with each other and throwing a party for him.

Imagine if we could say he was on death's door and he pulled through.

What a crazy experience that would be,

Right?

And I could see a smile on her face,

And she was like,

Yeah,

Oh my God,

That would be amazing.

So I offered a vision to her of what that would be like,

And I think in that moment just us two talking about that had an impact.

Now,

It would require a different worldview for us to consider that that conversation impacted the patient,

And we could go there.

But certainly it had an impact on her and on me,

And I think on a subconscious level at the very least it changed the way we engaged with him.

Wait a minute.

Were you having that conversation in front of the patient or did the patient,

Was the patient didn't hear that?

I mean,

Outside of the room or?

That particular conversation was right outside of his room.

The doors were closed because of coronavirus.

We didn't,

It was a negative pressure room.

So,

You know,

But we were we were right outside of his room.

So we really would require a different worldview than the standard one to say that he was affected by it,

Because even,

You know,

If it were inside the room and he heard it,

That could have given him a hope,

You could argue,

Right?

Even if he's unconscious,

His unconscious mind could have processed the words and given him hope.

But you're talking about a different,

A different phenomenon altogether.

Right.

And there are,

It is quite often that I will actually go in into a room with a patient who's sedated and ventilated on a life support breathing machine,

And I'll talk to him or her as if they can hear me.

There's every bit of evidence to suggest that patients,

Even though well sedated,

Can comprehend,

Can receive some sort of external stimuli,

And it reaches them on a deeper level.

So I assume they can hear and I always tell family members when they ask me,

Can she hear me?

Can you hear me?

I say just assume they can and say everything you want to say.

So I treat my patients in the same way.

I assume they can hear me.

So that's awesome.

So,

So it does sound like you've been,

You've been able to,

Even in the face of a real devastating potential loss,

Even of an employee of your own hospital,

To hold that image and to actually hold it for others and to,

To the extent that other,

Other folks in your healthcare community are capable of hearing it,

You'll go down certain roads.

Have you gone down even a deeper path with anyone beyond saying,

Hey,

What would it be like for,

Have you explicitly sort of,

You know,

Put things right out there for them in the same way you have in these conversations?

Yeah,

I,

More so actually since our,

Since our interview,

I've felt a little bit emboldened to do that.

There's a,

Yeah,

I see the thumbs up.

There's a,

A patient that came in recently who had a absolutely massive stroke,

Like huge,

Basically his entire left hemisphere.

For those who know a little bit about neurology,

The left hemisphere for majority of people contains our language centers,

Our ability to comprehend,

Which is one aspect of language,

The spoken word,

As well as the written word,

And the ability to express talking as well as writing.

Those are two distinct language functions and both reside in the left hemisphere.

His carotid artery got occluded,

Occluded,

Blocked off and his whole left hemisphere was affected.

There was a chance that I could increase the blood pressure and prevent the whole hemisphere from basically dying off.

But it's a fine balance between driving the pressure too much and causing a bleed and not enough where the whole brain infarcts or dies off.

And so we were in a very tenuous state for about three days playing that,

That fine line.

And that patient had the same nurse for those three days.

And he was on the first 24 hours he was globally aphasic.

What that means is he could not understand,

He could not talk,

He had no idea what was happening around him,

No ability to communicate in any way.

By the end of day two,

He very clearly understood what we were saying.

We told him to show us two fingers,

Point to the ceiling,

Stick out your tongue.

We wouldn't mimic anything.

We would just say the words and see if he did it.

And the very odd thing is if you looked at his MRI,

That particular part of the brain was dead.

And yet he was demonstrating function.

Now you could argue some part of his brain is taking over.

But the fact that the entire hemisphere had not infarcted was a bit of a miracle because his carotid was completely gone.

And we were both very,

Very hopeful.

And I remember sitting down talking with this nurse and she said,

Oh,

I hope he makes it through this.

And I shared her hope.

And I said,

Well,

Why don't we just visualize him getting better?

And that was it was a little bit more than I'm typically used to communicating with with my colleagues.

And I said,

I'm not sure if you're if you're a woman of faith or if you believe in things beyond the typical paradigm.

I kind of just asked a little bit.

And she kind of jumped at that.

She said,

Oh,

Yes,

Of course,

I believe in all sorts of things.

So that was my green light,

So to speak.

And I said,

Well,

You know,

Just as there's power in prayer,

Let's take a moment and really see him pulling through.

Let's see him walking out of the hospital.

Let's see him talking with his family and engaging with his family.

And her and I just took a moment and we visualized that and we saw him getting better.

And we both walked over to his room and and saw him in that light.

And I don't know how that landed for her because I didn't ask her yet,

But I could see it on her face.

There was a sense of joy and a sense of hope.

And she she saw that it was possible for him to to come out of this,

At least in her mind's eye.

Well,

I would also imagine I'm putting myself in her place right now as I'm hearing this story.

So I don't know if this is true,

But I would also imagine if I if I were in that place,

I would feel relief that here's a doctor who's willing to sit down and visualize with me something that I believe works or is helpful.

This doctor is willing to to include me in that.

That feels like a profound opening.

I mean,

One of the pieces that was so touching about reading the feedback from the first interview is that people were saying health care professionals,

Doctors and nurses were saying they were very touched because they don't get to share.

You know,

This this non Western I don't know what you want to call it this non materialistic or non physicalistic sort of point of view that things beyond the physical matter they don't get to the things that are beyond the physical actually make a difference in healing.

They don't get to sort of share that with others beyond the standard like more positive attitude is good and you know it's good to have a community of support and things like that which it like took forever for the medical community to buy.

But,

But there's this other piece of like this profound impact of something to do with human thought or human compassion or love or unconditional love or God or all these things that aren't really counted upon.

Have you talked to doctors about it at all fellow doctors.

Not explicitly.

I have had.

I've had similar conversations of redirection,

I guess,

For lack of a better term where I get a sense of fatalism from a colleague,

And I'll redirect that and I will again.

In my mind I kind of imagine myself like Johnny Appleseed I just keep plant planting seeds.

And in the minds of my colleagues of well what if,

What if it wasn't the end or what if we didn't have to emotionally pull back or energetically pull back.

And there's an element of that when when we just see the writing on the wall,

So to speak,

There is a sense of stepping back from the situation and allowing nature to take its course which is a phrase that we often use with with family members.

And I think,

I think it depends on how well you know the colleague there's a there's a there's a colleague or two that I am thinking of that may be able to understand a little bit of what we're talking about.

And maybe I'll approach the topic with them.

Yes,

I have a habit of outing people so that I do want to share.

Let's just take on for a moment,

You and I,

And everyone listening that there is more things in this world than are dreamt of in our philosophy,

As Shakespeare would say let's let's take that on for a second.

In the same way that when two people are communicating the bulk of what's communicated is nonverbal.

I think when a health care provider and a patient are interacting with each other.

The bulk of what gets communicated is non physical.

If you can imagine things in that way,

Assuming that we take on a worldview where those things are real.

I think that that's a large component of the interaction between health care provider and patient.

Okay,

What you just said yes,

I mean I think that's really key.

And what you just said reminded me of a near death experience article that will be coming out of at the explored,

I got a got a pre print of it from a colleague.

But it's an article about a near death experience a case study of this woman who's actually an MD.

And she was one of the authors of the study because she's like well I'm an MD so I'm also going to write about my own near death experience.

And she writes with Marjorie will account,

Who's,

I think,

In the neurology department organ,

I think,

Health sciences I'm not sure.

But in any case,

It's a profoundly interesting near death experience because she is a doctor,

And so she actually remembered thinking things like well wait why are they doing that now.

You know,

And then to track everything because she's familiar with all the procedures.

So she observed herself from a different location or that was her story that was that was her experience of observing yourself.

And one thing that I thought was really beautiful about that near death experience is there's one doctor comes into the room her abdomen is filled with blood,

And she had just,

They had just done a cesarean and a hysterectomy on her,

And her abdomen is filled with blood and they're trying to stop the bleeding.

And she says it was one doctor shows up in the room just when she's just like think and she's just going to die.

And he,

And she says,

And he was covered in light,

Like she saw him as glowing.

And he walked right up to her with incredible confidence,

Stuck his hand without a glove in her abdomen,

And just grabbed something.

And that was the first pain she felt like then she immediately went back into her body and felt that pain and she's like oh I guess I'm going to be alive because now I can feel.

And everything stopped and then her aorta I guess started again and then boom.

She was alive and in a lot of pain but she knew she was going to be okay because she the love and the light that it was she saw her on this guy was so apparent she's like ah,

Ah,

You know,

This is,

This is happening I'm coming back,

And that,

That light that love.

I feel strongly about that based on,

You know,

So when it,

When I say this it's not because,

As you know we're both doctors you're a medical doctor I'm a scientist.

We both have intuitions.

So what I'm saying is not scientific it's just an intuition that there's something really important there that's really real that she saw in that light that's really real and not just real but like more powerful than anything physical.

I mean not just real but in fact,

Controlling the whole situation,

But unacknowledged so it's I almost feel like we're in,

Like the,

The,

We're like the dark ages of medicine because the stuff that really ends up really creating the outcome is the invisible stuff.

Yeah,

That's,

That's,

That's absolutely right.

I,

What you're sharing reminds me of a,

Of a book that got turned into a movie.

The books called No Solar.

It,

I think it,

It means our home in Portuguese it's by Chico Xavier,

And it's the story of,

Of a physician who who dies and then goes to the afterlife and most of the book is his experience in the afterlife,

And he realizes how much,

How much harm he did as a physician based on the state of being he was in.

And he got to see the ripple effects on his patients and their lives,

Based on what mood he was in the thoughts he was carrying during the interview with his client.

And the converse of that is the positive impact he had on specific patients lives when he was in a very centered,

Peaceful state,

And that when he would touch them in that state just the mere touch would have an impact.

That movie and the book first of all,

Had a very big impact on my life.

It's,

It was one of the moments where I realized who I am being is as important if not more important than the decisions,

The medical decisions I make or what I say to my patient.

Yeah,

It's it's like this thing where we're prioritizing the wrong feature of,

Of prioritizing just the wrong thing.

Right,

Right.

It's it's the relationship between form and content,

Right,

If the,

If the content is whole and and peaceful and loving,

Then really doesn't matter what form it takes,

It'll have that impact.

Right,

You could be a shaman in the corner of the room.

Exactly.

That's,

That's causing the same impact or you could be a person who's closing off the aorta.

So,

Well,

So,

So this okay this.

There was a second question,

And I forgot it now.

Oh yeah,

No,

The second question you got to,

I think I inferred.

Well,

Let's see if this is true for what you were saying the second question was like,

Is there a burnout when there's so many patients who are in such trouble,

Or,

Or does it get ramped up more,

Or is it basically all the same.

So that's the second question.

Yes,

There was something I wanted to say about that.

I find if I start the day,

And I trust in a deeper intelligence in me,

And I give,

And I give that the,

The freedom to do what it wills through me,

Then I,

I don't have to worry about being on guard,

So to speak.

I can,

I can just trust that when,

When the moment is needed for me to think or be or do anything,

I will be guided to do so.

This is the,

The intuition aspect that you and I share.

I just,

I just wait to listen.

I go about my day.

I do what I need to do with patients.

I generally am mindful of my internal state of being.

And when I'm not peaceful or I feel myself slipping into a sense of anxiety,

I will take a moment and breathe deeply.

My,

My mental and emotional state is extremely important for myself as well as for the people I take care of.

So I,

I'm mindful of that.

But I don't necessarily take a moment to engage in these visualizations with every patient.

I,

I on a,

It's hard to describe.

I know just what you mean.

I think what you're saying.

Yeah.

On a felt level.

Yeah,

It's happening anyway.

It's happening anyway.

I just know that anyone I engage with is whole and is perfect.

And this is just a,

A screen.

It doesn't come to the conscious mind.

It's something I bring.

Yes.

Yes.

It's a way of being.

It's not necessarily a thought.

And so,

Yes,

One way in is this visualization stuff,

But that's sort of on the conscious level.

But when something,

Anything conscious,

Like snapping your fingers or tying your shoes is learned well enough,

You don't need to think while you're doing it.

So I would,

I would recommend providers who are taking this on,

Start off consciously and it will become unconscious.

It will become learned and wrote at a certain point.

There are moments though,

When I do feel a sense of,

Of guidance to,

As in the case with the nurse to share my perspective on something,

Knowing that that might shift how she or he sees the patient.

Yeah,

Beautiful.

So it's this basically being in the flow of the moment.

And you just,

And being in the knowing and the confidence of the wholeness of yourself and the patient.

Yeah.

So I think we are,

We are wanting to end on this really important question that we sort of touched on at the end of last time.

And it's really crucial to go into this in a little more depth,

This idea that that you ended on last time that you know there are reasons why people get sick,

It seems.

And we talked about how that could be so easily misinterpreted into like,

And it is your fault that you got sick.

Right.

Or you got injured or whatever.

And so let's,

What do you want to say about that to help us sort of move towards a more,

A deeper understanding of that concept and non simplistic understanding.

Yeah,

A non simplistic.

First,

Let's consider how it's currently misinterpreted.

So,

So that that's very clear.

In,

In certain circles,

We have adopted this perspective that you're,

You're at cause for your life experience you're you're a creator of sorts and you know even Oprah will talk about it,

You're,

You're the creator of your own life.

And that's all well and good when it's about good things.

But then when you know the proverb,

The proverbial shit hits the fan then the problem is,

Am I a creator of that too.

Now,

If you say yes to that,

Then a natural consequence is guilt and shame.

And perhaps even anger at the person who is suggesting that or anger at yourself if you're choosing to entertain that belief that is the current state of affairs with people who misinterpret that particular teaching.

The way I see things is whether some whether a particular perspective is empowering or not.

So for example,

I could either choose to live my life experience and see myself as a victim.

And I will create a list of 10 or more things people,

People circumstances events that are the true cause for my suffering.

In my experience,

Granted it's not that many years compared to others but in my experience,

That is a disempowering perspective that perpetuates a world of victimhood and an inability to move out of that suffering.

If however I say,

I'm going to choose to use this as an opportunity,

Rather than a way for me to stay in my victimhood or in my woe is me mentality.

I can then be more proactive about it I can be empowered about it.

And I can then decide to view the experience differently.

And one of my biggest beliefs,

I guess,

Or perspectives is that disease is a doorway.

Disease is a potential tool to grow from.

It can be something that is a thorn in your side.

And all you want to do is get rid of it and go back to life in the way that you knew it.

Or you can take a moment and say,

Alright,

This is happening right now.

How am I going to choose to use what's happening?

What purpose am I going to give it?

And that is so critical because if you give that experience of disease a purpose of growth and awakening,

That is one of the most empowering things you can do.

And I know multiple sclerosis patients of mine who have done this,

Cancer patients who have done this,

Even simple patients who have severe asthma,

They will say,

You know what,

I'm done being a victim.

I'm going to use this in a sense of growth.

Now the disease may not go away,

But this is what you and I started off talking about.

Healing occurs.

They are now a different person.

They have now gone through that doorway of disease.

They are now a different human being,

A stronger,

More courageous,

More empathic,

More compassionate human being.

The outer form of what the body is doing may not necessarily change,

But the content of who that person is has completely radically changed.

That to me is healing on a much deeper level.

And so when I say,

Okay,

Consider that you create your disease experience,

This is what I'm talking about.

Don't be a victim in it.

You can if you want to,

Just know that you're choosing that.

Or you can give that disease purpose and then go through it and become a completely different person.

Yeah,

We have this habit of at the end bringing up these things that now we need a whole other conversation about.

That brings up the what is healing.

What is healing really?

Can you look at the same,

Right?

Can you take a person who has this disease and someone else who has the same disease and the same stage four cancer,

Whatever it is of the same organ.

And they both have the same outcome,

Whatever that is.

But one of them could be healed and one of them isn't healed.

And I'm not talking about the disease.

I'm talking about the whole system,

Right?

That's right.

That's right.

If it does take a different worldview,

If people think that healing is having something change on the level of what the body is doing,

It's a very simplistic perspective of healing.

If we take on a larger worldview that our opportunity as human beings here is to grow and evolve personally,

Emotionally,

Psychologically,

Spiritually,

Then disease starts to make a little bit more sense.

It's not about necessarily the body being completely healthy until we die.

If what it really is about is a spiritual growth,

A psychological growth,

Then disease is one among many challenges to achieve that.

Opportunities to achieve that.

Yeah,

Which is,

It's like then you become in your work as a doctor,

You become like a,

You're like a priest who's helping or a shaman or someone who's helping.

You're a,

What's the word,

You're a mystical transformer who's helping someone in this time of change where they have an opportunity to take a healing path.

Oh,

Julie,

It just occurred to me.

I remembered something.

Yeah.

Maybe it was on your group chat,

But I can't recall where I found this.

Someone sent me a link to a clip from Evan Almighty.

Oh yeah,

That movie.

It's a movie with Morgan Freeman,

I believe.

He has this,

There's a scene where he's sitting at a table and Evan's wife is sort of frustrated with her husband trying to build an ark because he was told by God to do so.

And she said,

I just don't understand what's going on.

And he sits down.

Of course,

It's just a,

It looks like a worker,

But really it's God in the movie.

And he said something to her that I found very compelling.

He said,

If you asked God for courage,

Would God just give it to you and put it in your heart or would he give you an opportunity to demonstrate courage?

If you wanted to have a sense of contentment,

Would he give you that feeling immediately or would he give you an opportunity to develop that sense?

I like that because I feel like if there is a purpose to life,

If there is a thoughtfulness behind what's happening,

It would have that intention where disease and other similar challenges give us opportunities for growth.

Yeah.

And I almost kind of want to say not only it would,

It has to because otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

Doesn't make any sense.

Exactly.

I think that makes sense.

Oh,

Adam,

Thanks so much.

I mean,

Dr.

Rizvi,

Thanks so much for having this conversation today.

I really,

Really appreciate it.

I know you are going to now do a bunch of work at night.

So I hope that goes well and you stay safe and healthy.

Thank you.

You as well.

Great pleasure to be on this call conversation with you.

Yeah,

You too.

We'll do it again.

Maybe we'll see.

Take care.

You got it.

Reviews

Super brilliant amazing incredible interview. my greatest wish would be that the perspectives of this enlightened man would be taught in all Medical schools and establishments and adopted by all.

Wonderful conversation! Gave me so much opportunity for further thought.

A profound reminder of the ways that illnesses can be affected by our world view, intentions and hope, with acknowledgment of the wisdom among organisms seeking healing, evolution, or enlightenment. Thank you!

I love this discussion. Seen more of the approach of disease, as opposed to whole person. Keep planting those seeds. ❤️🙏

Insightful... brilliant

Thank you for more of these incredible conversations! 💕🙏

Fascinating point of view!

Dr. Julia,
Thank you so much for sharing your talks with Dr. Adam. I have recently finished a Gestalt Coaching Certification which is based upon the mantra of people being whole, and this way of being you both present highlights that perfectly! One of my favorite quotes is “Experience is not what happens to you; it’s what you do with what happens to you” by Aldous Huxley, and I carry this as I’m developing my practice. I look forward to your next podcast in this series!

Excellent conversation good conversation to listen to to reset the thinking

So encouraging and informative

Dear Julia (Dr Mossbridge),
I found that a very profound conversation. I have the experience of being a “patient” with an auto immune problem that took many years to diagnose. In that time I have used alternative medicine and spiritual practice. It has changed me as a person :) for the better! We need all Drs to be like Dr Rizvi! Thank you so much for your talk.

Thank you both for this conversation- I hope there will one day be a dharmic medicine research institution and conference like Duke University has for western religions-Divinity and Medicine. Dharmic world view is holistic. Arizona is lucky to have you. Sukhi bhava

Transforming. Love it. Thank you so much 😊💕🙏🏻

Wonderful, thank you for this insightful talk! Namaste 🙏🏼🌟

So much to share! Here’s the truncated version: Worked with small town doctors for 15 years and they were always involved in their patients lives and deaths on a touching level. As an office worker I attended calling hours of our patients several times. 2. My very first spiritual experience at six years old was knowing in my heart that my mother’s touch had the power to heal me. 3. All human experiences are challenges and learning experiences. Learned this in my 20’s and it has served me well. Thank you for an amazing and validating conversation!

That is a 10 out of 5 stars. As if Part One of this conversation could even be topped. Such powerful stuff! If more people recognized these ideas and even just dabbled in them, many of us healthcare providers would need to find new jobs😉. Holding this very perspective is what helps me remain centered and focused within so I can bring my best self with love to my patients/clients. Thank you so much for sharing this- look forward to any future conversations you have to share with us!

I just found you and am so drawn in. Thank you for this work you do and sharing it with us! 🙏🏼💗

I too, am in the medical field and frequently find myself so saddened by the majority of others who don’t take this paradigm into consideration and it gets very frustrating. To the point of wanting to get out of it altogether. Thank you so much for the reminder that there are still professionals in the healthcare field who want to heal from a spiritual perspective in addition to the standard care, not just a band-aid on the patient’s issue and money in their own pockets. Thank you! 🙏🏼❤️

That was an incredibly enlightening talk..thank you.