Zen Commuting With Thom Walters

This April 16, 2024 recording with Thom Walters gets into how Thom was introduced to mediation by his Mother at age 18, communication with guides (including his Mom), non-separation, challenges and rewards of teaching meditation in corporate environments, perspectives on various meditative experiences, attitudes to/about meditation, teaching meditation to prisoners, stillness, suffering, beauty, etc.

Transcript

Homeless,

Welcome.

This is Josh Tippold,

And today I have Tom Walters with me.

Tom,

What's going on today?

It is just a beautifully sunny day here in Nashville,

New Hampshire.

Already got my meditation out of the way.

I shouldn't say out of the way.

I enjoyed my meditation out on the bleachers at the university where I usually go.

I take a walk through the woods,

End up at the university and meditate,

Then walk on back home and start preaching meditation to the world.

Tell folks a little bit about who you are and what you do.

I've been meditating for over 40 years,

But 18-year-old Tom meditating and 60-year-old Tom meditating are two very different things,

But meditation has been something I've used,

Utilized,

Benefited from my entire life.

It's what brings me such peace,

Such calm,

Such wisdom.

Some people would say maybe not so much wisdom,

Maybe more calm,

But I'll take what I can get.

So I teach meditation to companies in the area,

To people online,

And just as a way of helping them become more empowered and understand their place in the world,

Their connection to all things and just live a calmer,

Wiser,

Happier life.

Oh,

Cool,

Man.

So 18,

I talked to a guy the other day who he read the Bhagavad Gita and then he wanted to ordain as a Hindu monk.

Western guy lives in Southern California,

But they wouldn't let him until he turned 18.

I'm just like,

I'm so surprised.

How did you find meditation that young,

Especially this age group?

I mean,

It's not unheard of.

I wouldn't say it's common,

But it's definitely not unheard of,

Especially today,

It's actually really quite common to meditate.

But I don't want to guess at your age or nothing,

But still 18,

How did you find it and how'd you start?

Well,

The good news is my mom was incredibly progressive.

So this was 1982,

Actually it was 1981 when she was starting.

She and two other instructors taught meditation to people in our community.

And when I was 17,

I was,

I mean,

The first time that they were getting together at the house,

I was talking to my mom,

Like,

What are you doing?

She's like,

Oh,

We're just going to be talking about meditation.

And I'm like,

What's that?

She's like,

We'll talk about it later.

And she was getting ready.

So she didn't give me the brush off,

But she was getting ready.

She's like,

We'll talk about it later,

Sweetheart.

I'm like,

Can I join you?

She's like,

Maybe not quite yet.

So obviously I was like,

Wildly curious.

I'm like,

She is a little sketchy.

What is she,

What's going on in there?

So I had my ear to the door,

Literally,

I'm like,

What are you talking about in there?

And it was fascinating.

And for like weeks,

I'd asked my mom and until I eventually gave up,

I was like,

How about this week?

She's like,

I don't know if the time's right.

And I don't know,

To be honest with her,

I could probably talk to her and find out when or why,

But she just wasn't,

She's like,

Just like maybe some other time.

And I think it was like a year later,

And I was still wildly curious.

Then just,

I didn't even ask because I'd forgotten.

I'm like,

Nah,

She's doing her thing.

Like,

Whatever.

I'll go read comic books or whatever.

And then she's,

I was getting ready.

And she's like,

Would you like to join us,

Sweetheart?

I'm like,

Uh,

Yeah.

And I didn't even ask her why now,

But long story short.

So that was,

So yeah,

Sat in with the group,

Learned how to meditate and met with the group for another year,

Every Tuesday for the next year until I went off to college.

And it was just amazing.

We talked about a variety of things that it's wild to think about that.

Well,

It's not that wild.

My mom,

Like I said,

Was incredibly progressive.

So we talked about things now that are then that people talk about now,

Like it was nothing.

I'm like,

Wow.

And that was obviously,

You know,

Some,

Some years ago.

But one of the things I am always a little reticent about talking about is that for the first year I was meditating on Tuesday when the group met and I do it on Saturday when I didn't have a lot going on.

So it's like after work or whatever.

And then,

So those were the only two times I'd meditate.

And then I got to a point in,

I went away to college and it was like a Wednesday and I was like,

I don't know if it was finals or if I was having some like homesickness or drama.

I'm like,

Oh man,

I just can't wait until Saturday when I can meditate.

And then this light bulb went off in my head to be like,

Dude,

You don't have to wait till Saturday.

You can do it now.

I'm like,

My God,

I love me,

But that's,

I can't believe that I was so dense.

So I made my way to the chapel,

Sat in a pew and just meditated.

And from that day on,

My meditation practice has been pretty consistent,

Which is amazing.

You know,

Obviously the times don't always,

I,

Back then,

It was probably like,

You know,

Probably like 15 minutes once a day.

Now I'm 20 minutes twice a day.

But obviously if there's something going on,

I'm like,

Okay,

I don't know if I can swing it today,

But I got to get some time in,

Whether it be five minutes,

10 minutes.

So it's a non-negotiable.

So that's my meditation story in a Reader's Digest version,

Quasi.

Yeah,

Cool.

I've listened to,

Before I came on as a guest,

I listened to some time period around there on Zim Commuter.

I've also listened to some recent episodes on there too.

And you mentioned,

About how your mom comes to you sometimes in meditations,

If I'm getting that right.

Now,

Tom and I,

I feel that we can connect with folks from all walks of life,

From,

And even Tom's latest series about meditation for beginners and meditation for more advanced students.

So,

I mean,

We've talked about,

I've talked about everything on this podcast from like aliens and stuff,

You know,

So there's,

It gets real,

It can get really far out.

But the core of it that I really like is meditation,

But I'm just interested here because I'll just share real briefly,

I might've mentioned this before,

After my grandmother passed,

I mean,

She came to me in a dream and she looked exactly like she did,

Probably the first memory I have of her around that age,

You know,

And she told me to get back in touch with a college friend of mine that I had to kind of lost touch with.

And I did,

And it was great.

And I've hung out with him and his family.

He's storing some of my stuff,

Actually,

You know.

That's a good friend.

I'm overseas here.

I know,

Right?

Yeah,

You better hang on to that one.

I mean,

His wife cut my hair during the lockdowns and stuff.

So,

It was a really,

I'm really glad that I got back in touch.

So,

But this,

You're my guest here.

It's not my story time,

Right?

So,

Tell me about,

And then you also have,

I think,

Another guide.

Yeah.

And talk about this because I'm actually reading this book by a guy who does past life hypnosis and will,

Past life regressions,

And we'll have them see if they can recall some of their past lives and whatnot.

And one of the parts is about working with guides.

And,

You know,

Early on in my practice,

I explored some of this stuff and I haven't recently,

But I'm fascinated about this because it seems like these are really helpful,

Not only in your practice,

But in your daily life and the things that the kind of messages,

Insights,

The questions that you get.

So,

Yeah,

If you want to talk a little bit about that,

I know it's just kind of a weird offshoot right here at the beginning,

But let's do it.

Nope.

It's actually one of my favorite things to talk about because you are correct.

Bartholomew is a guide that I've had since 18,

Not our 18,

My 18,

But it goes by Barth for short.

And my mom came to me in a meditation about a year and a half after she passed away.

And I don't know why I didn't think it was possible,

But for a year and a half,

I was grieving,

Obviously,

And I had my meditations and almost invariably,

They'd end up with me sobbing or crying or,

You know,

Missing my mom or,

You know,

Thinking about my mom.

And then about a year and a half later,

I was meditating and I heard her voice.

I don't even know exactly what we were talking about,

But my immediate thought was,

I'm like,

I must be missing her more than usual today because I hear her voice.

And she basically said,

She's like,

You're hearing my voice because I'm here.

And so I said,

How is that possible?

She's like,

Do you really want to know?

I'm like,

I have a feeling I'm not going to understand it,

But give it a shot.

She's like,

Well,

You know that time is not linear,

That past,

Present and future are all happening at the same time.

So you are connecting with a portion of me that has transcended humanness,

But you're also talking to a portion of me that is still here,

Still alive in a human form,

But in another time.

And I'm like,

Wow,

You are absolutely right.

I don't understand that at all.

But I said,

So I'm not going crazy.

She's like,

What do you think?

I said,

I feel you.

I hear you.

And I don't doubt my sanity at all.

She's like,

If that works,

Then that works.

I said,

It definitely works.

She's like,

It is accurate.

And we've gone on to talk about many things in the years after.

I mean,

She passed away about seven years ago.

So in the time after that year and a half,

We talked about things and she brings up questions and we talk about stuff.

I'm like,

You know,

Whether it be questions about my life or just questions in general about the nature of the universe and the nature of life.

And sometimes she'll say stuff that I don't even understand.

And that kind of foments into my belief that I'm like,

Yeah,

I mean,

It's not even a thing anymore.

I'm like,

Yeah,

I'm talking to her,

But it's not a doubt in my mind.

But if I had to think about it,

I'm like,

Yeah,

She's giving me things to think about that I can't even understand.

I'm like,

If my brain can comprehend those I can't comprehend,

Then I'm tapping into something much deeper.

So that's Mom,

And Bartholomew has been with me since I was 18.

And it's interesting because if I think about,

You mentioned past life regression,

And every now and then I think about that,

And I definitely know that I've lived many lives,

But I don't really think about it because one of the things I've talked about or that I've come to understand in a meditation is that there is and there isn't past lives.

Because if we are all truly connected,

If we are one,

One energy,

Then how could we experience another energy?

So it's not like there's another separate entity that I was because I am all people in all times.

So the thing that makes a past life a past life is an understanding of the consciousness of that portion of all life in that time.

Does that make sense?

I don't know if it does,

But to my point,

It's just,

I'm part of everything.

So it's another incarnation.

And with Barth,

I mean,

Barth's not a separate entity.

He's like,

I'm an aspect of your higher self,

But you're remembering when you were me back in the day.

I'm like,

Ooh,

Again,

You're tripping me out,

Guys.

I'm just going to go with what works.

There's so many different perceptions of self and there's even the Buddhist is not self.

And since we are,

From what I can understand,

We are all interconnected and interdependent.

And then where does our self really start and where does it end?

And how do we perceive it?

And how much variation of perception is there?

So I'm open to all this stuff.

I don't have conviction on any of this stuff right now.

I'm just really exploring it from all kinds of different teachings and aspects.

So I can totally see what you're saying.

And then consciousness,

From what I understand,

There's not really much separation.

It can go faster than light in a way.

You talk about people connecting in various ways,

Very kind of unexplainable ways as far as science and these guide things.

While they might seem woo to some people,

Some people that are more advanced as far as it comes to metaphysics,

That stuff they did 20,

30 years ago or something like that.

So we're all at where we're at on our path.

Some of us seem to be a little bit more advanced according to certain criteria than others.

So I think it's important for me,

We meet everybody,

Including ourselves,

Where we're at.

And yeah,

Sometimes we're teaching and sometimes we're learning and sometimes we're learning while we're teaching and vice versa.

So this is a really cool thing.

I'm still curious,

How did Bart present himself?

You talked about a little bit like that,

But did he have a human form,

An inner vision or was it just a voice?

And do you go to him or does he appear to you?

Is there anything else to say about it before we move on to the next thing here?

Yeah,

Great question,

Because when I first met,

Air quotes,

Met Bartholomew Bart,

It was in a meditation.

It was a guided meditation and he appeared first as light.

Wow.

So that's kind of tough to talk to.

He's like,

If it would be easier,

The form that I had when I was human,

I'm like,

Yeah,

Let's do that.

And yeah,

That light morphed into a human form.

He's about five,

Five,

Five,

Stockier guy,

Like not really built,

But not really chunky,

But a smile that would just light up an entire planet.

His eyes don't open all the way,

They're kind of just slivers of eyes.

And I don't see him that much.

I can,

But I hear him more than I see him.

And if I want to go,

If I want to experience his physical form,

I certainly could.

But for right now,

In the beginning,

I'd see him,

Yeah,

I'd do guided meditations and we'd convene and I'd see him and we'd hang out.

Sometimes he'd morph into light,

Sometimes he wouldn't.

Sometimes we'd morph together.

But now I just hear him all the time.

And I say that respectfully,

Because the wisdom I have attained from Bartholomew Bart,

For short,

Is just amazing.

And he's just one of many.

There are times that I'll hear voices and it's not Bart.

And I'm like,

Who is this?

And to be honest with you,

I don't even ask who it is anymore,

Because I know that anybody that's giving me wisdom or light or guidance is doing so in my best interest.

So it's just like,

I know some people say,

Well,

I have to call my guides in to give them permission to talk.

I'm like,

It's an open door policy with my guides.

I'm like,

You guys are looking out for me.

So whoever wants to chime in,

Chime in.

And like I said,

Sometimes I'll be walking down the street,

Sometimes it'll be at work,

Sometimes it'll be at the grocery store.

Huh,

That's cool.

Yeah,

I think about that.

So yeah,

Those are the best way that I hear is just Bart talking in my head and in my mind.

And again,

I always know the voice.

Well,

You're kind of a public figure too.

So it makes sense with the open door policy,

Right?

Yeah,

Exactly.

Exactly.

All right.

Well,

Let's,

I guess,

Go back to basics here for a second and talk about maybe you know,

Clients and people you work with,

And maybe some of the most common questions you get.

I'm sure you've already talked about this on some of your podcasts.

But I mean,

Like,

What's your kind of approach to teaching meditation,

I guess,

Is kind of an overview.

And then maybe we can get into more specifics.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well,

One of the things that I love most is teaching corporations or groups of people,

You know,

And it's,

I always feel a little sketchy.

Because when I think about meditation,

When I,

My goal for meditation is to help people understand their power,

Their connection,

Their,

Their divinity.

And,

But I know that not everybody's at that starting.

So,

But I know they'll get there if they have that silence and that stillness in their lives.

So corporations will be like,

You know what,

We want our employees to be happier,

We want to be sick less,

We wanted to be more attentive,

More creative,

More able to work together and be emotionally,

You know,

Regulated.

I'm like,

Cool,

I can do all that with meditation.

That's a great thing.

And so I go,

I feel like I'm going into their default false pretenses.

Because yeah,

Those are things that meditation can help with.

But the things that I get most excited about is when I'm teaching a group of people,

And people that have never experienced a quiet mind that have never experienced stillness.

And once they have once they've got meditation down or on their way to getting it down and experiencing more things,

You know,

Invariably,

I'll have a class,

And then the class will be over.

And somebody will kind of,

You know,

I'll be getting ready,

And somebody would come over to me like,

Hey,

Can I just share something with you?

I'm like,

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Like,

I was meditating the other day,

And I saw a face of somebody that I've never seen before,

I had this feeling,

Or I think I was in a different time,

Or I felt connected,

And all these different things.

I'm like,

That's great.

Like,

Is that wrong?

I'm like,

First of all,

There is no wrong.

Second of all,

That's great.

And I tell them the exact same thing.

I'm like,

These are the reasons I teach meditation,

So people can understand what is resonant for them,

Their connection to all life,

Their connection to their divinity.

I'm like,

You're gonna,

You quite possibly experience these moments more as you meditate.

Like,

Well,

What do I do?

I said,

You don't do anything.

Like,

So I shouldn't try and have these moments more often?

Or I said,

Believe it or not,

No.

Meditation isn't about a goal,

Isn't about an expectation.

Meditation is just simply being aware of what is happening and being okay with whatever happens,

Whether that be a meditation where you feel connected to all life,

Or a meditation where you are feeling the sadness or suffering of the entire planet.

I'm like,

Whatever comes up,

You sit with it,

And you don't judge it.

You don't try and push it away,

Or you don't try and embellish it,

Or make it bigger.

You just acknowledge.

And there's such growth in that,

And there's so much joy in that,

At least I find.

And invariably,

They'll come up to me again and just say,

Hey,

I found this,

Or this happened.

And so yeah,

That whole kind of trajectory just makes me so happy.

But it starts off with like,

Okay,

Yeah,

Your HR director says,

Half the people here don't want to be here,

So let's get them happier.

So I'm like,

Yeah,

Okay,

We'll start there.

We'll start there.

So yeah,

Those are the things I truly enjoy.

The more spiritual aspects of meditation,

The more empowering aspects of meditation.

And I say that of the words that most resonate with me with meditation are connection,

Divinity,

And compassion.

And those are all kind of bases for meditation.

So those are the things I get excited about when I'm teaching.

Well,

Right on.

Yes,

I've yet to do the more standard formal corporate thing.

And on a way,

I a little bit wonder about it because some of the employers,

I think,

And I'm just guessing,

I don't know,

They're using it for not the best total purposes.

They want to get more productivity.

And some of the mind numbing jobs,

They want to get more productivity out of something that's kind of mind numbing.

But on the other hand,

As far as I know,

Meditation can help everybody and at least give them kind of more of an opportunity to kind of see this for themselves.

And maybe they're not a right fit,

Or maybe they realize I'm the best fit in the world for this.

And in fact,

I know what now I can do to make my work life better,

Maybe get a promotion,

Things like this.

So,

You know,

I can see it both ways.

And yeah,

So it's fascinating to me,

That whole thing.

And now the other thing is veterans.

I don't know if you've worked with veterans,

But that's a whole,

Yeah,

That's a whole huge thing of programming.

So I mean,

I think they have kind of a lot of special training with veterans and whatnot.

But yeah,

This is fascinating.

So do you ever have people come and out of that setting,

And then get in touch with you to work more personally then and then have found even other life changes?

And I do want to echo the fact of what you said of how meditation could just be a relief,

Because it's a time where we're not expected to have expectations.

You know,

There's no,

Especially starting off that there,

You can't fail at,

You can't do it wrong.

And a lot of people just don't have a reference point for that.

And I know some people,

When they find out maybe how chaotic their mind can be,

They get scared,

And they run away,

And they don't want to do it again for a while.

But other people,

Just like a light bulb goes off,

And it can be really life changing right away.

And then kind of everything in between,

So.

And I love all those iterations of meditation.

You're 100% correct,

Because sometimes I'll tell people that I'm a meditation instructor.

And some people will be like,

Oh,

That's really cool.

I've meditated a couple times,

I probably should do it more,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And then we end up talking about Star Trek or food or like,

Okay,

I tell people like,

You know what,

And many times people like,

They feel like I'm the like the meditation patient.

I used to do it,

But I should do it.

I'm gonna do it again.

I'm like,

I'm like,

I'm gonna say this respectfully.

I'm like,

You will or you won't.

I'm like,

It has a multitude of benefits for me.

But if you're not feeling it,

It's not resonating with you,

Then hey,

No worries.

And so to your point,

Many times people after those,

You know,

Those corporate things,

Work with me one on one to deepen their practice to either start or enhance a spiritual practice to deepen their practice.

And there are many people that are like meditation.

Oh,

Yeah,

No,

I do not want to be alone with this head.

I will continue to scroll Netflix,

Binge,

Drink,

Smoke,

Sex.

I'm like,

I will do whatever to get away from my head.

I'm like,

Oh,

Well,

Yeah,

Yeah,

I'm totally yeah.

I'm like,

Hey,

You know what,

Whatever works for you.

I'm like,

My life works for me,

Your life works for you.

If you ever want to change anything,

Or if you ever want to ask about anything,

I'm here.

No worries.

One of the things I'm most excited about is that I'm going to be teaching meditation to prisoners in state prison in Concord,

New Hampshire.

So that's,

I've done it a couple times up in Berlin,

New Hampshire.

But it is just,

Wow,

It is just one of my favorite things to do.

Especially,

It's,

I would say challenging.

In fact,

The time that I was in Berlin,

The first time I was like,

Scared,

You know what list because I'm like,

Like,

One gate opens and other close another gate open like,

Oh my god,

I'm like,

I am going deep into a prison.

I'm like,

I'm like,

I am safe.

I know I'm always going to be safe,

But I'm scared assless.

And then the second I get in there,

All the guys were just so kind and warm.

I'm like,

And my mind didn't even like skip around to like,

What are they in here for?

I'm like,

I didn't care.

They were just people and they were there and I was there.

And it was just,

It was probably one of the most beautiful days of my life.

Those days,

Teaching and hearing stories and what meditation means to people who have a life that is different than mine.

So that's,

I'm looking,

Really looking forward to doing that in Concord,

Which is a little closer.

Berlin is like three hours away from where I live now.

Concord is about a half an hour.

So I'll take that for sure.

So that's exciting.

Well,

Right on the,

I've heard of these programs,

You know,

The San Francisco Zen Center has a one,

I think it,

Where is it?

Not Alcatraz,

But,

Oh,

I'm forgetting on the famous prison on the West Coast.

Maybe you know it.

Yeah.

And,

But maybe I'll think of it here,

But I have a friend,

Denny K.

Mu,

That was involved in the San Francisco Zen Center.

And there's a whole Buddhist chaplaincy thing,

You know,

In the,

Of course,

There's all kinds of faiths and sex and independent people that go and do this.

And I,

Yeah,

I feel it's,

Because anybody that's in prison,

Wanting to meditate,

You know,

It's not like they're being forced to do it.

You know,

As far as I know,

It's voluntary.

So,

You know,

The people that are interested in meditation in prison are going to be there for their own kind of sanity and wellbeing with a very rough way of going sometimes perhaps,

You know,

So yeah,

Very cool.

Well,

Tom,

I think we're going to start winding this down.

What kind of message would you like to leave listeners with today?

I think the one thing that resonates most with me is the fact that whether you have a meditation practice or not,

We are all connected.

And when we have a moment of silence,

When we have stillness,

We understand what resonates for us.

We understand that we are all connected.

And I think that's one of the reasons that I teach meditation so much is so that people don't feel alone,

That suffering is something that is inherent in human life,

But there are ways to mitigate it with meditation,

With understanding that we are connected to our higher self and that we all matter and that we all are empowered and that we're all connected.

And with a meditation practice,

We can feel that.

And as one person becomes enlightened or more aware,

Then the world starts to change in a beautiful,

Beautiful way.

It's already a beautiful,

Beautiful world,

But it becomes even more beautiful when we understand our power and our connection to all life and each other.

It's so amazing you say that Tom,

Because it came to me earlier today of what a precious gift or awareness is.

It's almost like our superpower that we can be aware that we have this knowing and noticing ability.

Usually we're paying attention to the object,

But the actual ability to know and be aware of whatever we're aware of,

That in and of itself is such an amazing opportunity and gift and almost like a superpower that will help us towards awakening and realization of awakening and enlightenment.

And so with that,

May all beings everywhere realize awakening,

Be free.

Thanks again,

Tom,

For joining.

I look forward to that.

It's I as well.

Bye now.