Unhunch A Bunch With Aesha Tahir

This February 23, 2024 conversation with Aesha Tahir puts a strong emphasis on the importance of what she calls an unhunched posture. She relates how the body can best interact with electronic devices including tips on desks, device placement, what to do about bodily tension, practices for near sightedness, the importance of taking breaks, and eye strain. We also get into the connection between emotions and posture, how unhuncing can be a kind of journey, the intersection of Ayurveda and science and plenty more

Transcript

Wholeness.

Welcome.

This is Josh Stippold and today I have Ayesha Tahir.

How's it going,

Ayesha?

It's going well.

How are you?

Oh,

I'm all right.

And so who is Ayesha and what does she do?

I'm an exercise physiologist and a corporate wellness consultant who helps organizations develop a culture of well-being.

When I'm working with the organizations,

I design and facilitate training programs,

Corporate wellness training programs,

But my specialty is posture.

So having an unhunched posture and upright posture is where I help clients privately or in groups or in a corporate setting.

So let's jump right into it then.

What is a hunched posture?

Easy for me to say.

Hunched posture and an unhunched posture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So hunched over posture is what you normally see people when they're working at their office desk practice,

Right?

When they're especially working in front of a computer and then all the other technological devices with the cell phones especially,

We see that even more,

That exaggerated hunched over posture.

And let me explain what it looks like.

It looks like your shoulders are rounded,

Your chin is dropped to your chest,

So now you are bending your neck.

And then we have a significant bend in our thoracic spine too.

So that is how it looks for our upper body.

And that's what we call a hunched over posture.

Now,

What is proper posture or unhunched posture?

That would be kind of opposite of what we are practicing at this time.

And so the hunched over posture is a closed posture.

And I like to always bring this to people's attention that it's a closed posture because we are literally closing our heart chakra when we are there.

And when we close our heart chakra,

Which is our main energy center,

It's going to disrupt the flow of energy in our bodies.

So let's see what an unhunched posture does.

Unhunched posture means that your shoulders are soft and they are back.

It's almost like you're dropping your shoulder blades into your pants back pocket.

So you're really nice and open with your chest.

So your chest is proud.

And then you're going to lift your head up so that make sure one of the ways to do that is to make sure that your screen is aligned with your eyes.

So it's in line with your eyes.

So you're not looking down continuously to take a better look.

Same thing.

You're not looking too far forward to take a better look.

Make sure it's appropriately distanced.

What we say is the appropriate distance is like an arm length away.

So your screen should be arm length away.

When that is possible,

When that is happening,

When you have that setup,

You will have your chin away from your chest and your head would be aligned over your spine.

Another significant aspect of an unhunched posture.

And then if we look at the lower body,

What we want to see is that your shoulders are stacked above your hips when you're seated or standing,

Because a lot of people are now using standing desks,

Which are amazing for your posture because you can take a break and you can vary your positions.

So that's a very,

Very important tip for people who want to fix their posture.

You don't want to stay in one position for a very long period of time.

The more you do,

The more rigid and tense your muscles become.

And then you practice that hunched over posture.

So let me just review the unhunched posture one more time,

Starting from the top.

So your head should be in line with your spine and your chin should be away from your chest.

So you are looking straight ahead in front of you at the computer screen.

And then your shoulders should be soft and relaxed and shoulder blades should be dropping down towards your hips,

Shoulders stacked above your hips,

And then plant your feet comfortably on the ground while you're seated or standing.

This is really helpful.

And I was in online marketing for a while.

And one of the reliefs I was when I got out of it was that I wasn't in front of a computer so much,

But now I find myself working for my own thing and back in front of a computer.

So I'm in front of it more than I'd like to admit now that these are very helpful.

And now these are specifically geared for office work and being in front of a computer,

Which I find in today's society,

Especially in certain demographics is very helpful.

And people need to know this kind of basic information around it,

But it's simple,

But it's not easy and it's profound.

These things that we take for granted a lot of times.

Now,

My issue with this when I get into,

Well,

First off,

I'm nearsighted and I'm too stubborn to wear my glasses and they burn my eyes.

So I do find myself if I have to read hunch or leaning into the computer more.

A couple of other things I want to just see if you have any advice on.

I find myself pushing through when I feel the tension in my body,

Right?

But I ignore it in order to get through what I'm getting through and working on.

And just keep my,

When I know I need to just stop and take a break and realign or do something different because I can feel the tension in my muscles building up,

But my mind overrides it.

And I keep pushing through.

And so then there's sometimes some irritability or just kind of annoyance or just physical tension.

That's probably the main thing when I'm in front of a computer.

And then I also want to talk a little bit later after this about the meditative context of posture.

So what would you say to these things of me being nearsighted,

Not wearing my glasses?

I mean,

The obvious answer is to get glasses that don't burn my eyes,

But I just don't,

I don't see that happening anytime soon.

And then this tension held in the body.

Yeah.

You bring up a lot of good questions over here.

So I'm going to decipher them one by one.

The glasses part,

Of course,

As you just said,

You know,

Wear the glasses or find a pair of glasses that work well for you.

But our eyes play a huge role in proper posture because,

You know,

The way you hold your body,

The way you position your body depends on your perception of where you are in space.

Right.

So there's one exercise I give to professionals who are like you,

You know,

Working long hours,

Really,

Really focused and are having issues with the computer screen,

Like getting a better look at the computer screen and leaning forward,

Leaning too far forward.

And for that,

I say it's an exercise that's called 20,

20,

20.

So every 20 minutes,

Look 20 feet away in distance.

So ideally,

You want to do it outside.

You could do it inside too,

If you're looking outside the window works.

Look 20 feet away for 20 seconds.

That works wonders for your nearsightedness.

The other thing I would say is always bring the equipment to you rather than taking yourself to the equipment that includes your keyboard that includes your computer screen.

So if you are continuously really leaning forward to get a better look,

Pull the monitors close to you.

And third,

Invest in a bigger screen that I say like go as big as you can go.

You know how people buy TVs,

Big TVs to watch games,

Same concept.

I mean,

I would project my computer on a TV if it was practical to do that.

But,

You know,

Go big with your screen,

Then you are removing that leaning over,

Leaning forward easily.

So those are the three tips for,

You know,

Somebody who is nearsighted or is having issues with getting a better look at the screen.

Now,

As far as focus,

It's not your fault.

I say this all the time in my corporate trainings and to my clients.

It's not your fault.

Really important.

Yeah.

We are in a silent battle with our devices where they are fighting for our attention and they're slowly draining us.

This modern hunched over spinal alignment that we are commonly seeing now,

Like the forward head,

Rounded shoulders,

Excessive arch in the lower back.

That is because we have really moved away from,

You know,

Manual labor.

We're not changing our positions.

We are not in touch with the nature anymore.

We are literally losing connection with our bodies,

Not being mindful of how we feel and what that's doing to us,

Like in general,

If you see,

It's making us anxious.

That's it.

But it's not your fault.

It's the way that this system and technology works.

However,

I always say like we as human beings,

Like we are amazing machines.

We are amazing creatures.

And we know that we have to take care of our health.

We should be able to prioritize our health and embrace technology because,

You know,

It does wonderful things for us,

Like it has really made us productive.

There are so many things,

Awesome things that are happening because of technology in our world.

But embrace it while taking care of yourself,

While respecting your body,

While being mindful.

And one of the easiest ways to do that is to take breaks often.

And when you take that break,

For example,

I suggest to my clients,

Take a five-minute break every 30 minutes.

And that's what the evidence shows us that if you take a five-minute break every 30 minutes,

Not only are you more productive,

But you're more mindful of your body.

You're more energized.

You are more in alignment with what you stand for.

You are in alignment with your purpose.

And if 30,

You know,

Every 30 minutes it's too much,

I say,

Okay,

Find a cadence that works for you.

Maybe it's every hour,

Maybe it's every two hours,

But step away,

Step away.

And one of the exercises I always give in the break that people take,

The technology break,

Is meditation.

And a lot of people are not used to meditating.

So I tell them,

Okay,

Just find a quiet space and focus on your breathing for five to six breathing cycles.

That's all I ask of you.

And a lot of times my clients would come back to me telling me how better they feel.

They're not tense at the end of the long day,

You know,

Because one of the concerns that keeps coming up is,

Oh my,

I have stiff muscles at the end of my workday.

I literally,

Like when I get off of my computer chair,

I can't,

I can't move.

It hurts.

Every part hurts.

Every joint hurts.

And as an exercise physiologist,

Like I could tell them,

Okay,

Well,

You're not working out,

You're not doing this.

But I'm like,

No,

You're not mindful.

You're losing that connection with your body.

Because if you had that strong connection with your body,

You would take breaks more often.

So let's reestablish that connection.

And the easiest way to do it is to start small.

Maybe five minutes is a lot to ask of you.

Maybe you can do it for two minutes today and then build up from there.

And when you meditate and when you breathe,

Because breathing is a huge aspect of having an unhunched and proper upright posture,

Practicing posture.

So when you're breathing,

Make sure you're really expanding your diaphragm.

I like to give this visual to my clients that,

You know,

Imagine that you are taking the breath in,

Inhaling through your nostrils and filling your belly like a balloon.

So everybody has probably seen or done it themselves,

Like blown into a balloon.

So you're blowing into a balloon.

Really expand that diaphragm so that it massages your vagus nerve,

Right?

It really activates your vagus nerve.

And then as you exhale,

Let that navel drop to spine.

So you're deflating that balloon.

Again,

We are activating that vagus nerve.

Now,

Vagus nerve is your cranial nerve,

Which starts at the bottom,

At the base of your cranium.

And then it has endings throughout our body.

But most of the endings are underneath the diaphragm.

And when we are sitting in a hunched over position,

This is the biggest whammy that the hunched over posture does to our bodies and our brains and our mindfulness,

Is that the vagus nerve doesn't get activated when we are hunched over.

Why?

Because your diaphragm is compressed.

It can't fully expand.

So it drops our lung capacity by 30%.

This is what we see in research studies and evidence-based work that I have done myself and the research I have read.

So it drops that lung capacity by 30%.

Now,

What does that mean for you?

That means you're taking in 30% less oxygen with each breath cycle.

And second,

You're not activating that vagus nerve.

Now,

The vagus nerve,

When it gets activated,

And massaged by the diaphragm,

It goes to your brain and it has access to your brain's Zen room,

I like to call it.

But that system is called parasympathetic nervous system.

So it calms you down.

These devices,

They are putting us into this fear state.

And the way we work and this posture that we practice,

It puts you in the state of heightened fear.

But when you take full deep breaths,

When you take that break,

When you meditate,

When you take deep diaphragmatic breaths,

Guess what?

It goes to the opposite side of your brain,

Which is your parasympathetic nervous system,

Which is your calming center of your body and brain,

And it calms you down.

So there is your connection between posture and meditation,

Because you're able to breathe better.

You're connected.

You're connected to your body.

Such good points here and so well-spoken with such good energy behind the words to really drive home the importance of this in helpful and practical ways here.

Let's go back to where we started here,

The eyesight for nearsightedness.

And of course,

This only applies to a small amount of people,

But I quit reading a lot because I think I read too much and that's contributed to nearsightedness.

But what about,

I was wondering about,

And you can answer this later maybe,

But so if we have a computer up here,

Eye level,

Then my hands are up here.

So I guess it helps to get a monitor and then an external keyboard if you're going to be and have that lower because this laptop thing,

But I think I answered my own question there,

But this is really important for the meditative link on this.

And as far as getting tensed up around this,

It's really something how you talk about priority and it,

Whatever reason I just get sucked in.

And I think this is whatever is on the screen is more important than anything else.

Now I get the benefit of really being focused and kind of concentrated and really get absorbed into our work,

But it depends what that is and how helpful that is in a way.

And I would say though,

A check would be if I'm disconnected from the body,

Like you put so well,

And it's so easy for me to connect in meditation to the body and I don't need as many deep breaths because I'm there fully present,

You know,

And in deep meditative states,

We don't need as much oxygen and the awareness is there and the space is created for kindness and healing to the body.

But when I'm interacting with this machine constantly,

That's that for whatever reason,

I'm prioritizing that over even remembering I have a body,

Like a head on wheels,

You know,

Or a head with a mouse and a keyboard,

Basically,

Then,

You know,

All that goes out the window.

And so now the practicality,

I like this notion of when we're interacting,

Or let's just say I'm interacting with a device of these deeper breaths,

You know,

That really activate the vagus nerve.

And I find that very helpful.

And it's,

Do you recommend timers to putting a timer on for these breaks?

Because I mean,

I don't keep track of time a lot of times when I'm online.

And when I don't have any other commitments,

Anyway,

If I'm really getting into a project.

And then the other thing I'll say,

Though,

Before this,

Well,

Let's just do that.

And then I'll talk about my own posture in meditation.

But we're talking about the practical side of this technology thing here.

Yeah,

No,

I would love to hear about your posture,

Too.

So yeah,

With the screen,

You just answered your question.

It's about,

Especially for someone like you,

Who is nearsighted,

And a lot of my clients are just like you,

Like in the same boat,

I suggest buy an external monitor,

And go as big as your space would allow.

Because the bigger the screen,

The less the strain on your eyes.

And then with the keyboard,

Yes,

I have like a sliding keyboard,

What would you call it,

Attachment underneath my desk.

So it pulls out,

It pulls the keyboard out to me.

Again,

I'm not reaching for the keyboard and rounding my shoulders and overextending my arms.

I'm trying to keep that soft bend in my elbows.

So the keyboard just slides out to me.

So those are two pieces of equipment.

They're not as expensive anymore,

Too.

With the advancement in technology,

The technology is becoming really cheap,

Which is a good thing.

So invest,

I say to people,

Like if you could invest in one thing,

One or two things,

It would be that.

And then for the standing desk,

Too,

A lot of times people are like,

Oh,

Those are really expensive.

Yes,

They're still expensive if you're going for the hydraulic version.

But there are sit-to-stand desk attachments that you can buy.

They're readily available everywhere.

And when you do,

Again,

Super cheap,

But that's one investment I would make for my better posture.

So let's talk a little bit more about breathing.

So we start with deep breathing because people are,

We are not aware of our breath cycles anymore because we are just not in touch with our bodies anymore.

So in many ways,

I call it deep because I think it resonates more with desk-bound professionals,

But it's actually slower breathing,

Just like you mentioned,

Because when you're in meditative state,

You actually want to breathe less,

Right,

And slow it down.

So when you take full breaths,

You're actually slowing down your breathing rate.

And the more you do it,

The slower it gets because now your parasympathetic nervous system is active and it's going to regulate your breathing and make it even slower.

So that's that transcendental state that we actually can go into if you practice meditation for a while.

So that's the connection.

But I want to really emphasize what's happening on the other end because I think if we don't understand what we are doing with the hunched over posture,

We kind of are not motivated to take any step to correct it.

And that is that hunched over posture puts us in a heightened state of fear.

And also the work we do does that too because all the projects and the deadlines that we have,

They stress us out.

So you have high stress levels.

Now,

When we have high stress levels,

What we see is that our body tends to just hunch over,

Hunch forward naturally because your brain has the second part of the brain,

Our autonomic nervous system,

Which is the sympathetic nervous system,

That becomes more active when we are stressed out or hyper focused as I would like to call at our work.

And that determines if we are confident or we are anxious.

So we can be confident and literally like killing it at every project and being super productive or we can live in a state of fear.

And most of the people are choosing the latter at this time because they're not aware.

Again,

It has to do with the awareness because they are not aware.

And what is happening literally with our physiology is that when we are sitting and standing in a slouched position,

A couple of hormones that we take a look at,

They get altered.

And the first hormone that gets altered is our cortisol.

So our cortisol goes high.

The cortisol levels go real high in our bloodstream when we have that hunched over posture,

Plus the stress of the work.

Because the posture comes with the stress,

Right?

Because you're super hyper focused,

You're not really aware of your body.

You're like,

OK,

I just need to get this done.

The deadline is coming up.

I haven't been able to push out like three podcast episodes that I was supposed to do this week.

Let's just,

You know,

Nose to the ground and get it done,

Right?

OK,

So both the things what's happening is our brain is creating this imaginary threat.

It's activating our hypervigilant system and our cortisol levels are rising because of it.

Second,

Not only the cortisol,

But the testosterone drops down.

So cortisol and testosterone,

They both work in complement to each other.

So when your cortisol goes high,

Your testosterone drops down.

Now,

Testosterone is your power or confidence hormone hormone,

And it's present in everybody like male,

Female bodies.

Both bodies have it and the effects are the same for both.

So when that's happening,

You are just going to stay in that cycle,

In that fight or flight mode,

In that fear cycle.

Now,

When you open your body,

Open your posture,

What we see is that your confidence,

I'm sorry,

Cortisol goes and drops low and testosterone becomes higher.

And what we see is just practicing better posture,

Open,

Expansive posture,

Where you're really opening your heart chakra,

We see that the testosterone can rise up to 25 percent in our bloodstream.

Two minutes of open,

Expansive posture.

That's all it takes.

So this is what's happening within your body when you're practicing hunched over posture.

And evidence also shows that when we are in a hunched over posture,

Again,

Because it's disrupting our energy flow,

We are more focused on negative thoughts.

So you're going to keep on thinking that you will not be able to push out those three podcast episodes.

You will have self-doubt.

However,

If you have an open,

Expansive posture,

Again,

It has to do everything with the flow of energy,

With how grounded you are,

With how centered you are,

And how connected you are with your body.

Once you are there,

You will have the focus that you need while taking breaks,

While being able to slow down your breathing,

While being connected with your inner calming system,

The zen room,

The parasympathetic system.

That's what it is.

Very cool.

Now,

I would say,

Maybe I'm completely off here,

But I would say what you just walked us through is great for the corporate world.

I think it applies more to people in the corporate sphere.

For me,

I really don't have any deadlines.

I get to choose my schedule,

Who I take on.

The only kind of thing I have to do is show up on time and be there for the interview on this aspect of the work.

But for me,

I feel since I set my own schedules and my own thing,

Then it's a greed.

I want to do more of this.

I want to be more efficient.

I want to get this done in this amount of time,

Even though I don't have to.

So I push myself and push myself because I'll just be so efficient here.

I'll get this done and then I'll have this other time to either.

Usually it's just more,

Right?

Just more things off my list,

Like a Capricorn,

Right?

And so I think that comes into it for me.

And then I prioritize that work over my body.

And then I don't realize it until in retrospect,

What are you doing to your body?

Is it really that important that I have to do this?

Okay.

And now the hunched over posture,

And maybe you might have some feedback for that,

But I want to go into the hunched over posture.

I know when I first started meditating,

Now I get all kinds of good compliments.

How do you sit like that?

Because I have done yoga and I can cross my legs in interesting ways,

Like the fire log way and like that,

Or the crisscross backwards way,

Or half lotus,

These types of things.

When I was sitting,

When I was at a monastery for a little bit,

And then people turned it into a competition.

Oh,

I'm not good enough.

I wish I could do that.

How do you do?

And so that's a whole nother thing.

But when I first started,

I didn't even know.

I was getting a couch cushion,

Putting it on the floor and sitting on it.

And that just automatically makes me hunch even more because I didn't have a cushion under my rear like you're supposed to.

And so the hips are supposed to be higher than the knees.

And then that accentuates the natural support.

But early on in my journey,

A lot of my practice was just unhunching.

And then I would lose track of my meditation object.

And then I would slowly wake up to the fact that I was hunching over.

And then I would reconnect my posture.

And sometimes that would be the focus of my entire meditation was just my posture.

And I was diagnosed with what's called scoliosis way back in grade school,

Which is a slight curvature of the spine.

But through yoga and meditation over years,

And I've even talked to someone that's been a guest on my podcast,

She has the x-rays to prove how her spine actually aligned more.

But what I noticed a lot when I got to kind of the heart opening phase,

And for those that are hunched,

I will say in your defense,

A lot of times it's this protection mode of the heart,

Because I was in a lot of pain,

Emotional,

Kind of mental,

Psychological pain.

And it was almost like that was a protecting,

Because the shoulders coming forward will even kind of protect even the chest.

But then when I had enough courage to actually sit there and weep sometimes because of the things I had forgotten about,

The psychological splitting when things got too hard,

And I just kept going forward,

All that caught back up with me.

And so as these memories came up to be seen and cleared and healed,

And the tears watered the heart and helped water the heart,

Then yes,

It can be physically painful.

I mean,

I even had some pain at the chest,

And I thought maybe I was having a heart attack or something,

But it was actually just kind of my heart opening and going through this pain and healing these emotional wounds,

These psychological wounds.

And then it seemed like as these things released,

There was a physiological correspondence to this release.

And then the shoulders started dropping and started going back more.

The spine was more erect,

But at the same time,

It was relaxed and easy.

And for those who meditate,

You can feel the energy flow too.

When we are hunched over,

You can notice the breath and the energy not flowing as well.

But when the body is,

There's a correspondence between our thought and our emotions and our body,

Our experience,

What's going on in the mind often has a physiological correspondence,

Same way emotionally,

And these can be tuned in.

And when we correct one,

It will have an or change one,

It will have an effect on the other.

One thing changes the other.

And so,

Yeah,

I just wanted to kind of validate that from my own experience,

The energy flow and the ease that can come.

And so we're balancing energizing factors with calming factors too.

The calming ones of the tranquility,

The gathered mind,

The unification of mind,

And even equanimity balanced with like energy and joy,

And sometimes investigation when we're looking into things.

And then of course,

Mindfulness keeps these in balance.

These are the seven factors of awakening that's traditionally known in some of the Buddhist teachings.

All right.

I think I put enough on the plate here.

Yeah.

So what would you say to some of this?

Yeah.

I mean,

All of this that you shared is so important.

And just like you said,

It's validating and it's something that our audience can listen to and say,

Okay,

I understand.

Now I understand.

So I'm going to take it backwards because of the way you explain that when you started practicing yoga,

You could,

At first you were just working to open up your heart because there was so much,

There were so many emotions stored inside you that you weren't aware of.

And then they started coming out and you started becoming this whole Josh,

Whole Josh,

Right?

Not somebody who was trying to protect himself the whole time,

Right?

You could show yourself to the world.

And that is where the intersection of science and the Ayurvedic world lies,

Right?

We are embodiment of our emotions.

So we embody our emotions.

The way we hold our bodies is a manifestation of what we have inside our heart,

Right?

So sooner than later,

I always say to my clients and everybody,

You know,

Start respecting your body,

Whatever that looks like.

Maybe you can embrace yoga practice.

Maybe you can't.

It's totally up to you.

We are all unique.

We are all different.

Perfectly fine.

But can you take a movement break during your workday?

Can you be more mobile?

Can you start practicing some sort of stretching where you're lengthening your body,

You're opening your chest?

Because physiologically,

When we look at our body,

The reason we have this hunched over posture is because over time,

We develop muscle imbalances.

Muscularly,

Our heart needs the support of the back muscles to stay open.

So how do you get there?

That's up to you.

You choose your journey.

Maybe that is through meditation and yoga.

I'm a yoga instructor too,

Certified yoga instructor.

So that's the route I chose.

But maybe that journey is not for you.

And you choose what that looks like.

Does that look like 15 minutes of stretching at the end of the day?

Yeah.

Does that look like just practicing slow breathing at the start of your workday?

Yeah,

Perfectly fine.

Whatever that is to you,

That process looks to you,

Embrace it.

Because you want to undo those muscle imbalances,

Really strengthen the back of your body,

Open your chest so that you're not collapsing and bending forward all the time.

Because physically bending at the heart center and solar plexus means that you have deep emotional pain stored in your solar plexus.

And our protective instincts are going to keep on kicking in and they're going to keep you right here in a hunched over position.

So slowly,

Slowly and gradually,

You have to start opening up.

You have to let go of the fear,

Anger,

Sadness.

Those we call them the lions that are guarding the gate to the heart,

Right?

You have to let go of those.

And you have to surrender to this Mother Earth.

Whatever way or form that looks like,

Find that connection with nature.

Maybe that looks like a couple of miles of hike or walk outside on a trail outside your home,

Or wherever you feel whole,

Wherever you feel fulfilled.

That,

That is your practice to open up.

Talking about scoliosis,

I'm so glad you brought it up.

I had sciatic pain.

That's how I started in this exercise industry.

Because before this,

I was working as a software engineer in a corporate world.

Yep,

Yep.

It's a 360 degree pivot for me.

But I love it.

I just love doing what I'm doing now.

And so it can be cured.

Cured to the point that it doesn't hurt you anymore.

It doesn't manifest physically for you,

Right?

So you don't have symptoms.

I still have,

I mean,

I still have sciatic.

I mean,

I'm at a higher risk of lower back pain.

But with all the yoga practice and the learning I have through exercise physiology in my work,

I take care of my body,

Right?

I take care of my muscular system.

And I keep my heart chakra open.

And the rest of my body open.

Hips too.

Hips are also where we store emotions.

So you want to really take care of your hips too.

So it doesn't show up.

So I can completely see that,

You know,

The x-rays,

If they don't show scoliosis,

Signs of scoliosis,

Or it's much milder than before,

It's possible.

And that is a testament to,

You know,

The practice of yoga,

Or practice of stretching,

Or practice of just taking care of yourself.

Now,

One of the things that you mentioned was that you are setting your schedule yourself.

But you feel this desire to do more,

Right?

Right.

So one of the things that I like to bring up in my work is also that we are becoming like too mental,

Like we are really living in our heads.

And I think that has more to do with that.

So if we just understood that less is more,

If you respect your body,

You'll be able to go farther,

Because we are always in this,

As entrepreneurs,

We are in this long game,

Right?

It's not a short term thing that,

You know,

It's not a sprint,

It's a marathon,

Right?

So we are not,

If we are not operating from our heart,

Right?

That's where we run into issues like those,

Where the self-doubt comes.

It's a form of self-doubt,

That you have that desire to do more.

And I've been there.

I've been there.

I still fall back into it.

Periodically,

I do.

And sometimes a coach or myself,

You know,

I have to catch myself,

Like,

Stop,

Stop.

Because you have to practice self-care for that long road,

Or else you're not going to make it.

So the deadlines,

It depends.

They're imposed by your employer,

Or they're imposed by you.

Yeah.

So both the reasons,

In both cases,

I always say,

Because you're in your head.

Leave it to your heart.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree more that it is.

And we're just,

We're kind of conditioned that way,

Too.

You know,

There isn't as much value and emphasis in the Western world on the heart and the body.

It's what can you churn out with the mind to make money,

Basically,

Or to add value.

And there's nothing wrong with money or adding value,

But where is the heart?

Like you say,

Where is the body?

You know,

This is,

These are often overlooked and just not,

We're not conditioned to value these.

And I love this word respect,

Especially for the masculine,

You know,

Honor and respect for the masculine.

And I love how it's turned around to where the body is usually considered a more feminine aspect,

But yeah,

Do we respect our own bodies?

Do we honor our own bodies?

Really important reminder here.

And as far as these guards to the heart,

Yeah,

I couldn't echo that enough either,

That this is self-care,

You know,

Whatever that looks like for you.

We can be kind and compassionate to ourselves when we're,

When it's a training too.

It's not something a lot of times that we can just flick a switch and have it happen.

You know,

Sometimes it takes extra time and help.

Sometimes it's a lifelong journey and that's okay.

We start where we are and we,

And we go from there,

You know,

And it's,

I don't really know how to overemphasize the importance of it.

I mean,

Even the heart energies will fuel,

That's the kind of fuel we want for everything in our lives.

And our mind will become more expansive.

The perceptional field will open up more higher levels of awareness.

Just everything in life is better.

And if we're operating from a lower place in the heart where energy comes from,

You know,

Bodily energies,

Then we're not going to have the same access and benefits of heart energy.

And I need reminding of this again and again and again,

That the connect with the heart and lead with the heart.

It's really just so wonderful to,

To hear these.

And I love your,

You have like an embodied voice.

So your,

Your voice,

When you,

When you speak,

It comes not only from the heart,

But it seems like the whole entire body,

You know,

And your,

Your cadence and your,

Your,

Your pauses and your timing and your emphasis and energy put behind the words.

I'm really grateful to have that as an example in my own work to,

To,

To see and hear that and experience your voice.

So thank you so much for,

For sharing all this today.

I guess,

As we start to,

To wind down,

Would you like to tell folks about how they can get in touch with you,

Your website,

Any books you have,

If you have events,

Courses,

Anything you'd want to draw people's attention to,

Be it your own work,

Someone else's,

And then would you like to leave the audience with today?

Yeah.

So thank you.

It's been such a pleasure really talking to you about this because I don't get to talk about the intersection of the science and Ayurveda as often.

So I was super excited about this podcast interview and thank you so much for having me.

It's been a pleasure really talking to you.

So one tip I want to leave your audience with and your listeners with is to really focus on their hearts and getting out of the head because that would establish a deeper connection with your body.

And all it takes is one small step a day.

You can start with two minutes a day.

That's it.

And the more you get aligned and the more you start being,

Becoming aware of your inside emotions,

In,

Of who you are,

What you stand for,

Where you want to go from here,

You can expand that practice from two minutes to four,

Four to six,

Six to eight.

And it's a process.

It's a process.

So don't expect to,

For it to happen overnight,

But start,

Start somewhere.

That's it.

That's all it takes to be unhunched.

Well,

Beautiful Naisha.

So may all beings everywhere experience optimal posture and all the beautiful,

Optimal health everywhere.

And so may all beings everywhere come to know their true nature,

Realize awakening and be free.