Martial Arts & Daily Meditation Power With Jeff Patterson

Jeff Patterson shares his extensive experience in martial arts and meditation, discussing how these practices intersect and benefit individuals in various aspects of life. He emphasizes the importance of establishing a daily meditation practice, the cultural aspects of martial arts, and the five regulations that form the foundation of effective meditation. Jeff also provides insights into the significance of breathwork and offers practical advice for those looking to deepen their meditation journey.

Transcript

Hold this.

Welcome.

This is Josh Dippold,

InnerSkilled,

And today I've got Jeff Patterson with me.

Jeff,

What's going on?

Not much.

It's nice to be here.

Thank you for having me.

Well,

Right on.

I start with the standard question I usually use here.

Who's Jeff Patterson and what kind of work does he do?

I'm out here in Portland,

Oregon.

I've been running a martial arts academy and meditation center here in Portland now for about 30 years.

And I was introduced to the meditative arts in a bit of a roundabout way in that back when I was 19 years old,

I was very much into Western boxing.

And I used to go to a boxing gym that was just a few blocks down the street here from my academy.

And for those of you that aren't familiar with them,

In your traditional style boxing gyms,

They're a lot different than your regular fitness style classes in that it's not one teacher up in front of a room leading a group of students.

Usually there's three to five coaches running around and each one of those coaches might have a handful of fighters that they're working with.

Well,

At this one particular gym,

One of the coaches that was there was a very well-known coach.

He had created champions at both the amateur and the professional level.

And I really wanted to get to spend some time with him,

But his card was full and he wasn't taking on any new athletes.

And so I'd always show up at the gym when I knew he was going to be there and I'd work hard and try to get him to notice me.

And after following him around for about three or four months,

He finally started giving me some tips and showing me a few things.

And it was only about maybe two to three weeks of getting to work with him when he said something to me that changed my life forever in that he said,

You know,

If you really want to be a good boxer,

You should start doing meditation and Tai Chi.

And at the time,

I'm this 19-year-old kid who doesn't know much of anything thinking,

You know,

Isn't that for like old people in the park?

How's that going to help me be a better fighter?

You know,

I had a lot of respect for him and I took on the practice and not only has it changed my life in many ways through the years,

You know,

I've had thousands of students come through the academy and through my online programs and I've heard endless stories of how the meditative arts has transformed people's lives.

And that's what's made me so passionate about trying to get the message out there and help as many people as I can with it.

Well,

Cool.

So a little bit of similarities,

But also quite a few differences here.

I want to spend most of the time on the meditative thing,

But,

You know,

For me,

I never really got into martial arts.

I was like in one little slapping fight when I was in high school and I guess I was overly emotionally sensitive and it really gave me a distraught in me,

You know,

And I haven't really had any kind of,

Other than,

You know,

Fighting tooth and nail with my brother physically,

But that was my own stupidity,

Right?

I never really got into this and I'd never been a huge sports person either.

It's not that I don't look down on it so much as this,

I just,

I guess I don't understand sports psychology a lot,

You know?

So,

But this changed a little bit when I was studying out at Mid-America Buddhist Association where I've come from in Missouri outside,

Like an hour outside of St.

Louis,

There's a Shifu there who was a,

Was,

He was a Kung Fu guy,

Right?

And he,

I went,

He invited me to do the advanced martial arts retreat,

But just the meditation portion because I don't have anything,

Right?

But,

Yi jin jing,

His version of yi jin jing I learned and some chi breathing exercises he developed on a five,

I'm sorry,

Three year solo retreat,

You know,

But other,

Well,

Without going into those stories,

He did this long Tai Chi thing and I,

You know,

It was almost like on for an hour and I said,

What do you call that?

And he's like,

Old style part one,

You know,

And he tried to teach me just,

Just like the first opening sequence.

And I felt like I could do that for months,

Just the very simplistic opening sequence of that.

And I couldn't even come close to nailing it,

Just the very,

So it,

And I think even deeper down,

It's where I was averse to it is because it's,

As far as I know,

That was designed for fighting,

You know,

Or to enhance fighting where the yi jin jing is kind of a restorative practice.

You know,

The,

The,

The,

What's told is that Bodhidharma did this when he was meditating in a cave for nine years and this is what he did to refresh,

I guess,

The tendons.

I don't know a lot about this,

But so the yi jin jing I did,

But I guess where I'm getting at this is,

You know,

The Shaolin,

I guess,

Are some of the most advanced martial artists in the world,

I would say,

According to some,

And they're,

They're really advanced yogis in meditation,

Meditative practitioners.

So I can kind of see the crossover,

But you have the full spectrum here.

So you can talk to this legitimately where,

Where I look at the sports side and the physical side that's for,

You know,

Protection,

I would say,

Or even harming if it's used wrong.

But I don't have that part of the picture.

So I want you to,

To,

To bring in the full spectrum here and tie these together.

So I kind of get a better understanding of how they go hand,

How they can go hand in hand.

So I break down the meditative arts into kind of five paths that you can follow.

And the first path is that martial or that athletic side of the practice.

And with this,

You know,

Many professional athletes these days across the board in any kind of sport you can think of are turning to the meditative arts because it's so valuable for improving their mind body coordination and their focus and their timing and their ability to reach those higher states of,

Of play,

If you will,

If not what a lot of athletes refer to as that flow state and the meditative practice helps us get into those areas of focus that helps us perform at that higher level.

Then we have the therapeutic side of the practice,

And this is good for our overall health and longevity.

We have the medical side of the practice,

Which,

You know,

All of Chinese medicine is based off of Qigong theory,

Which has been around for 4,

000 years.

Then we have the philosophical side of the practice,

Which is something I've always been passionate about,

And that helps expand your peripheral vision.

So you see things from multiple angles and understand how to be more strategic mentally.

And then lastly,

We have the spiritual side of the practice.

And so when you're integrating a meditation practice into your life and creating an evolving life practice with the meditative arts,

You might follow one or a combination of these different paths.

And we can incorporate different physical,

Mental practices,

Breathwork practices that we can use to get to a deeper level of feeling and awareness down any one of these directions that we choose to cultivate.

Beautiful and totally agree with all that.

I guess what I just don't understand,

If I can be frank,

Is why people want to beat the crap out of each other for sport.

You know,

This,

I guess I just don't get,

Now I can understand defending oneself,

Right?

And using self-confidence and,

You know,

Really having self-control over power and things like this.

But the sporting aspect of it,

Help me understand this a little bit.

Well first,

I think.

.

.

Not to be cheeky here,

I seriously want to know,

Because I.

.

.

Sure.

I think it's a little misguided to think that everybody doing the martial arts is looking to beat the crap out of people.

Because,

You know,

That's the last thing that probably 98% of the people that practice are looking to do,

You know.

The martial arts,

A lot of people get a lot of benefits from it,

Just like meditation,

You know.

You're learning how to be healthy.

You're doing something that's fun and challenging and strategic.

It helps open up your mind to see things in different possibilities.

I mean,

There's so many different avenues in the martial arts.

And so,

You know,

It's the rare person that is going out there looking to hurt people.

And I think those are the people that end up in jail,

You know.

I mean,

Some of my most respected mentors and teachers within the martial arts are some of the nicest,

Most humble people you would ever meet.

And so,

I think,

You know,

When you think of it,

You got to think of it with a little bit more of an open perspective and realize that not everybody's going down that path.

I guess I meant with like boxing and,

You know,

Street fighting and what is it?

IFC or whatever.

I guess,

Yeah,

Because the martial arts,

Yeah,

Totally.

I have nothing but respect.

And plus,

I've seen it turned around so many people's lives,

You know.

And it uses,

It takes advantage of this raw masculine energy and puts it in the best possible way that could possibly be,

That I could find out,

Especially for a certain character and personality type.

It's some of the best things that certain people can do with their lives,

I find,

You know.

And I've seen this,

Not in my own experience,

But just from the outside.

Yeah,

I meant more like these other sports and not to be judgmental.

Again,

You know,

I'm just trying to figure out the,

Like,

You know,

Boxing,

IFC,

Things like this,

Where there is a lot of harm involved for sports.

I mean,

For money,

Too.

And it's totally okay if you pass on this question,

Too.

I don't want to put you in a position where it's,

You know,

Where it gets you in trouble or something here.

No,

You know,

I feel comfortable talking about anything,

So you're not putting me in any position.

You know,

As far as,

You know,

People looking to get into boxing or MMA,

Again,

I think even people going down those paths,

It's rare to find somebody with an evil mentality.

A lot of these people are looking to challenge themselves and put themselves in a place where they can reach those deeper levels of security within themselves and understand how to be more confident.

For an example,

Like in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu,

I see a lot of people when somebody's on top of them and they're 250 pounds and they're crushing them,

They panic and they get in this position where they're like,

They don't know how to cope with what's going on.

And when you learn the art and you understand that you can be safe in these stressful environments when somebody is trying to harm you and understand that there's a way to breathe,

There's a way to see that light at the end of the tunnel,

It helps you in other areas of life when you're met with conflict or emergency or something that happens that puts you in these stressful situations that a lot of people panic and just don't know how to deal with.

And so,

There's a lot of benefits that come with taking it to that competitive side of practice.

I've been in the martial arts now for 36 years and,

Man,

I don't know,

Maybe two or three out of a thousand I've met that are in that mindset that I wouldn't want here at the academy and that are in where they're trying to hurt people or trying to kind of be malicious in some sort of way.

And so,

I think we're really talking about the very minority there when that comes up.

Well,

Yeah,

That's something else.

I mean,

Since we're there,

I might as well ask,

How do you handle those people being in a leadership role then?

There's very few exceptions.

I guess,

How did you handle that?

Well,

Anytime somebody comes in here,

I always give them a chance to understand the culture and see what we're doing here.

And if they can't adapt and if they're a certain way,

They just are asked to leave.

There's no acceptance for that.

Here at my academy,

I've had over 26,

000 students come through my school.

So,

We've had a fair number of students come through and you ask anybody that's been here and they'll tell you that the best part of this academy is the culture.

There are some great people coming in here.

I have students that have been with me for over 30 years.

And having that kind of family environment where people are coming in and looking to make themselves better and improve in every way that they can is one of the things that's made us so successful.

We'll ride on.

I guess maybe,

I don't know if it's a cliche or it holds true that,

You know,

Some people have had something happen to them in their lives.

And that's why they get into martial arts a lot of times,

You know,

I'm guessing that holds true.

I mean,

That's a pretty vague statement I have here.

So,

You know,

That is what it is.

And then if you want to speak to that or just the other reasons people get into martial arts,

And you've mentioned a few of them too,

Like pushing yourself,

See what's possible,

How to be when they're in a situation,

How to be comfortable with that.

They're not comfortable,

Which is probably the wrong word to use,

But,

You know,

Be confident that in very extreme or challenging situations that they will kind of have the wisdom and confidence to do what needs to be done in a way.

So,

That's one,

Maybe name some more reasons people get into the martial arts.

And then I want to start transitioning to meditation.

And I guess,

Tell me about your training though,

Too,

Within the martial arts a little more and then around meditation,

Including different types of practices,

Regimens,

Routines,

You know,

How your practice has evolved and maybe teachers and lineages that you've been a part of too.

Well,

That's a lot there.

Yeah,

A lot out there.

So,

Take your time unpacking that,

However you'd like.

So,

Yeah,

You know,

I think that it's interesting that you say a lot of times people are brought to the martial arts because of something that happened in life.

You know,

I find that very much congruent with the meditative arts.

You know,

I think some of my most disciplined teacher or students in the meditative practices are students that have come from life challenges and they need something to make those changes in their life.

And that's what makes them disciplined enough to adapt a meditation practice that helps them be successful in life.

You know,

And as a teacher,

You know,

One of my biggest challenges is getting people to understand the benefits of having a daily practice and why you want to do this on a regular consistent basis.

And so,

I think that there's a lot of people that on both sides of the spectrum,

Whether it's martial arts or the meditative arts,

That that fits really well with.

As far as some of the different martial arts we do here at the academy,

We do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu,

Muay Thai,

Western Boxing,

We do Eskrima,

And then we have our meditative arts program where we do Tai Chi and Qi Gong,

Sitting meditation,

Standing meditation,

Breath work,

Study the philosophical concepts.

And all of those are different programs that people can move into.

For my own personal training through the years,

You know,

I've spent my life running this academy pretty much.

I've been going now for 30 years here at the academy and,

You know,

I just spend my whole life around training.

You know,

Every morning I have a morning meditation ritual that I do and throughout the day I'm training a good majority of the day and just living the practice,

You know,

And always trying to make yourself better and improve in every way,

Physically,

Mentally,

Emotionally,

How I can change people's lives for the better.

You know,

All of that kind of is part of the process.

And so,

It's been a pretty fun journey because I've been able to have so many students come through the academy and through my online programs and hearing all these people that have had these life-changing benefits from the practice is really,

You know,

What makes it all worth it.

I love talking to you and just looking at you.

I just get this,

It's a rarity to have such an intensity and such a relaxation and ease at the same time.

It's such a beautiful,

Beneficial blend,

But with a super level of clarity too.

So,

These three qualities is just what I get and just being here talking with you or,

You know,

Virtually or whatever.

So,

It's quite profound.

The thing is also,

I think the masculine,

We're looking a lot for honor and respect,

You know,

And I'd say it's really easy and apparent to get honor and respect and to give honor and respect from what I've seen to people in the martial arts.

You know what I mean?

It's just kind of second nature with it.

So,

It's really helpful for that area of life too,

I feel,

You know.

So,

What was I going with this,

The meditation,

You mentioned getting students to see the importance of establishing a daily practice.

This is a common thing with people that are involved in meditation,

Facilitating teaching,

And I'm still learning to try to do this with the people that I work with.

And I don't work with too many,

But I do talk to a lot of people about meditation and their daily practices too.

And it doesn't apply for me.

I'm kind of an outlier because even after the first session that I did for around an hour,

Seriously,

I've met one other person where it completely turned their life around almost instantaneously,

Which is a super rarity,

Super outlier.

Usually you have people struggle with it for years trying to establish a daily practice.

I committed for the foreseeable future after one time.

So,

That's pretty much unheard of.

So,

In this sense,

I can't really relate to a lot of people trying to start a meditation practice.

So,

I have to learn from others struggling to establish one and helping others do it.

Some of the things I hear is,

It's like brushing your teeth.

Of course,

You could go a day without brushing your teeth,

But you wouldn't want to,

Right?

And for the people that need scientific validation,

There's just reams and reams of studies now of how all the different benefits,

And I tell people,

This is a side effect of meditation.

All these benefits are like the side effect.

You hear about side effects of different pharmaceuticals,

But most of the regular everyday benefits of better sleep,

Better relationships,

More calm and ease,

More clarity and focus,

More ease,

More mental acuity.

Yeah,

Just on and on and on.

These are all just,

They happen,

They kind of unfold naturally with the daily practice.

But what would you,

How do you teach people to establish a daily practice and realize the importance of it?

Well,

You know,

I've tried many things through the years,

And I've come up recently where I'm at is with three considerations that I like people to spend a little bit of time thinking about.

And I find that if they really put some heartfelt thought into these three areas,

That they're a lot more likely to be successful.

And the first one is thinking about why are you being drawn to the practice?

What is it that you want to see from this practice?

Maybe you want to stay healthy into your later years to watch your grandkids grow up or more mobile,

Or maybe you're an athlete looking to improve your performance,

Or maybe you're somebody dealing with a stress disorder,

Whatever that is for you.

And once you have that kind of general idea of why you're coming there,

Then I like them to take it to the next step,

Which is what are 10 or 20 things that will positively change in your life if you accomplish that goal?

Maybe it helps your interpersonal communication,

Maybe your relationship with others,

Maybe it helps you feel more confident when you're walking down the street,

Whatever that is for you,

And really put some time and some heartfelt thought into that.

Then I like them to flip the coin,

And if they don't accomplish that goal,

What are 10 or 20 negative things that will happen because they don't do that?

And if you put some time thinking about this,

What it does is it gives you the fuel and the energy for tomorrow morning when that alarm goes off and it's time to get up and do your practice and you're like,

I'll just hit the snooze button and do it tomorrow.

You'll stop thinking about it that way,

And it won't be a chore that you have to do every day,

And it'll start becoming something that you get to do and you'll look forward to it.

And so that mental transition is very important.

Then the second thing is understanding the idea and the reasons behind why we're consistent with the practice.

And there's this old story that I really enjoy that illustrates this idea well,

And it's about this old stonecutter.

And he's very well known all over China,

And he makes these beautiful sculptures of animals and landscapes,

And his work is so detailed and so unique that anytime somebody sees it anywhere,

They just know it was from him.

And because he's so well known,

He has people from all around that will come to live with him for years at a time to study and apprentice with him.

Well,

Every morning,

This old stonecutter,

He begins his day by walking down to the river and meditating.

And one day after his meditation session,

He's walking along the river and he has this profound vision of this big,

Six foot tall,

Mystical Chinese jade dragon.

And he's so taken by this vision that he just knows this has to be his next project.

So he spends the next few months traveling all around looking for the perfect stone for his new creation.

Finally,

He finds the rock,

He brings it back to his place.

And for the next period of time,

Day in and out,

He sits with the stone and studies it and feels the energy from the stone and just tries to envision how this dragon is going to appear.

Finally,

One day he starts working on the stone and he carefully places his chisel in one specific place on the backside of the stone and starts tapping away with his hammer.

A few hundred,

If not a thousand times every day,

He's tapping on this chisel and nothing was changing.

A few days went by and still no change.

A few more days went by and thousands of taps to the chisel and his apprentices started second guessing him thinking,

Man,

Maybe he should try something else and nothing seems to be changing here.

Then a few more days went by and finally he taps the chisel and this big three foot section separates from the backside of the stone and creates a smooth,

Slightly curved line that is going to soon be part of the dragon's back.

One of his apprentices who was watching said,

How did you know that that strike was going to break the stone?

And the stonecutter replied,

It wasn't that strike that broke the stone.

It was the thousands of strikes before it that broke the stone.

And with the stonecutter saying that he realized that the apprentice realized that through this repetition and this consistency,

That it wasn't just the finished strike.

It was all of these things happening up until that.

And because of that,

Not only was the stone changing beneath the surface,

But so was the one who wields the hammer.

And the reason why I like this story so much is that it's so closely related to the meditative arts and that we don't always see these changes happening day to day.

You know,

We're studying these sitting practices,

Standing meditation,

Movement practices,

Studying these philosophical concepts,

But it's through our consistency and our repetition and our effort that we're laying the foundation to reap these benefits and feed us fruits for the rest of our life.

And so having that idea of consistency is extremely important.

And then the third and final pillar is understanding that you need to have a guide along this journey.

You know,

There's,

You could go to YouTube and see a million videos on this practice and that practice and this app and that app.

And,

You know,

I've had students come into the academy that have been self-taught and they've been training for 10,

15 years sometimes.

And they're barely scratching the surface,

You know,

And our lives are short and your time is valuable.

Having somebody to help point you down the path to get more benefits out of your time is essential and very valuable.

So,

You know,

Thinking about your why,

Understanding consistency and having a guide in your corner.

If you do these three things,

I think you're much more likely to be successful with a meditation practice.

And so every new student that comes in here,

I really like to have them understand these.

So they're starting off with that in mind and have a little bit of that fuel to help them down the path.

Wow,

These are really great.

I super appreciate that.

Starting from the last one there,

I was in the same way,

You know,

I was,

I guess,

Shy to take on a teacher.

You know,

I would like teacher shop and listen to a lot of talks and things like that.

And,

You know,

Visit some,

But it wasn't until I really kind of committed more to a teacher that I found benefits.

And the other thing I would say is companions,

You know,

Peers,

We'd say spiritual friends along the path if people are onto spiritual things,

Because those are such a huge support too.

And really trusting the teacher and admiring a teacher and deriving benefit from a teacher too is paramount importance,

Totally.

The second one,

That's such a great story.

It reminds me of this thing in the suttas where drop by drop,

A water bucket's filled,

Right?

Don't think that good won't come to me because drop by drop it's filled.

Don't think that bad will come to me because drop by drop it's filled.

This is a gradual thing,

But we don't,

Like you're saying,

It's only kind of in retrospect.

And the long view,

I think in Zen,

They talk about like a sudden awakening and a gradual awakening,

You know?

And I've talked to practitioners who do have these kind of sudden awakenings,

Kinsho,

Or things like this.

But then most of us,

I would say,

Have this long,

You know,

Gradual path you're talking about.

And that progress in the meditative world isn't always apparent until we,

In retrospect,

Reflect on where we're at and where we're going and just kind of having the faith and trust that it is cumulative or it does happen gradually bit by bit under the surface a lot of times,

Yeah?

And that's also good to bounce it off a teacher and peers to get kind of,

Yeah,

Feedback,

Right?

But the very first thing you said was really helpful for me because it's like,

Instead of getting the carrot and the stick from someone else,

It's like starting with intention,

Like you said,

And then listing,

If I'm getting this right,

Basically the benefits that could come from it and the downside of not doing what you set out to do.

So it's almost like,

You know,

It's like when someone tells us something,

A lot of times we're not either ready to hear it or doesn't hit.

But if we discover it on our own,

Then that realization,

That insight,

It kind of sinks deeper,

I guess?

Or it's something different than just hearing it secondhand when we see and know it for ourselves directly.

And what that technique to me says that,

Yeah,

It's a prompting,

But at the end of the day,

It's not someone telling another what to do and here's the punishment,

Here's the reward.

No,

It's them doing it for themselves so much.

And so it's a self-motivational thing.

So from what I'm understanding what you say,

And I think that all these are really good ideas and I appreciate you sharing those with me.

So I guess,

What kind of techniques do you,

As far as meditation,

Do you do more Samatha,

More concentration practices,

Coming back again and again to the breath?

As far as specific types of practices,

What do you advocate and recommend or teach,

I guess?

Well,

You know,

There's so many different things.

I think it's good to have some sitting practices,

Some standing meditation,

Breath work training,

Movement practices.

All of these are kind of part of it.

But underneath any meditation journey,

It doesn't matter whether you're doing a sitting practice,

A movement practices,

Studying more of the mental and spiritual side.

I find that there's what we call these five regulations.

And within these five regulations,

They're kind of the foundation of any meditation journey.

And understanding these,

I think,

Really helps build a good foundation in your meditation path.

And they are regulating the body,

Regulating the breath,

Regulating the mind,

Regulating the energy,

And regulating the spirit.

And briefly,

I'll kind of touch on what all five of these are.

So regulating the body is the idea that you're working with your muscular tension and your skeletal alignment.

It's kind of like if you're sitting at your computer for three or four hours and your shoulders are rounded forward and you're feeling lethargic and maybe a bit depleted.

And then another time when the most important person in your world walks in the room and your body perks up and you feel like you're on top of the world.

Well,

These two different energetic states,

We're in 100% control of all day,

Every day.

And this is the basic idea of regulating the body.

On a little bit of a deeper level,

It's maintaining some kind of muscular structure in the body,

Some flexibility,

Eating a healthy diet to keep up our energy,

Getting an appropriate amount of sleep.

All of these things are part of that body regulation.

Then we have regulating the breath.

And the breath is an extremely deep topic.

And in fact,

Qigong is often referred to as the science of the breath because there's hundreds of different breathing strategies and we use these strategies to get different outcomes.

And the basic idea is we have our Yin breathing strategies and our Yang strategies.

A Yin idea is more of this inward drawing of energy.

It's more of these deeper focused meditative states.

And an example of a Yin breath that we all do every day is if you listen to somebody sleep,

You'll notice that naturally they inhale longer than they exhale.

And this brings that energy inward and helps us tap into our subconscious mind,

Which is where we are when we're sleeping and dreaming.

Now,

This is great for stress reduction,

Dealing with anxiety,

Boosting our creativity.

There's lots of reasons why we would focus on this Yin side of the breath.

Then we have the Yang side of the breath,

Which is more aggressive.

It's kind of like if you ever had to push your car,

You pick up something heavy,

Your natural instinct is to exhale and put tension in the breath,

Maybe even make the breath audible.

And this helps generate the energy and expand it outward.

So when we start learning how to use the breath strategically,

We can use it to regulate our physical,

Mental,

And emotional wellbeing.

Then thirdly,

We have regulating the mind.

Regulating the mind is an extremely deep topic and something that you'll study for the rest of your life doing the meditative arts.

And,

You know,

One of the most common things I've heard people say along the way is that,

I tried meditation,

But it just didn't work for me.

I couldn't quiet my mind.

You know,

Somewhere along the way,

I think people got this misguided idea that in order to be good at meditation or to benefit from meditation,

We have to reach this state of nirvana where nothing bothers us.

And,

You know,

They couldn't be further from the truth.

The idea that when I meditate,

If I sit for 20 minutes or do a movement practice for 20 minutes,

And I get distracted 50 times during that session,

And I recognize that imbalance,

And I use my posture,

My breath,

My movement to come back to focus,

I just got 50 repetitions of being out of balance and coming back to center.

And if you do that every day,

Every month,

Every year,

You start to develop this power and this ability to find that center in any distraction.

And this is very powerful.

There's these two old monks who are walking down this dirt road,

And it was after a huge rainstorm.

And they come up to this big mud puddle,

And on the other side of the puddle is this beautiful little girl,

And she's standing there in a white dress,

And she's crying.

And the older monk,

He hollers across the puddle and says,

Is everything okay?

Can we help you?

And she says,

I need to be somewhere,

But if I walk across this puddle,

I'm going to get my dress all dirty.

So he rolls up his pant legs,

And he walks across the puddle and picks her up,

Puts her on his back,

Takes her to the other side,

Sets her down,

And she's off on her way.

Well,

Him and the younger monk are walking a couple miles down the road,

And finally the younger monk is just furious,

And he says,

You know we're not supposed to touch girls,

But you did back there at the puddle.

And the older monk looks down and says,

You're still thinking about that girl?

I left her back there at the puddle.

And how many times in life do we need to get two miles down the muddy road before we realize we got to let that stuff go?

And so regulating the mind is an essential part of our meditation journey.

And then next we have regulating the energy.

Regulating the energy is a very deep topic and something that we could literally talk for hours about.

But the basic idea is,

Is once we've reached a competent level in regulating the body,

The breath,

And the mind,

We now have the tools to lead the energy in the body,

Maybe extend it inward to extend it outward to circulate it in the body.

And we do this to get different outcomes.

And then lastly,

We have regulating the spirit,

Which is another very profound idea and something that meditation practitioners will spend their entire life's journey working towards deeper levels of the spiritual cultivation.

But one simple idea that we can all understand and relate to is the idea of lifting our spirit or excitement,

If you will,

But with at the same time being able to be settled.

A lot of times when we get excited,

Our body gets tense and,

You know,

We get this fire in our body.

But when we can learn how to build that spirit up or that excitement,

And at the same time be settled and rooted,

This is a very valuable part of our journey as well.

And so when you can understand these basic five regulations,

You see that meditation can be applied and used in every area of our life.

Brilliant.

Yes,

Thank you for this.

And I find that just a daily practice in general,

At least it seems for me that the kind of subtle internal energies will grow and,

Yeah,

Will charge up.

And then kind of the grosser,

So to speak,

Even though some people say there doesn't need to be a distinction,

Kind of a lesson and the access to more subtle and subtle energies becomes apparent too.

Yes.

Now,

The thing that I'm practicing now is a Samatha practice,

Which is just basically knowing the breath around here.

So with what you're saying,

And one comment,

Which you said about the breath,

And I see that in its sleeping state,

Actually,

But there's also this notion that,

And I do see that the breath out can be forceful and the breath in can be more feminine.

But to me,

It seems like it could be the other way around too,

Because in breathing in can be like an energizing effect and breathing out can be like a release and a relaxation too.

So an in-breath can be a brightening and then a out-breath can be a release or relax.

So,

Yeah,

It's interesting to see this,

How,

You know,

I guess the view and the experience of the energy,

And it's almost like the intention can,

I don't know,

Color it or have an effect too.

But what I want to ask is,

Have you ever done just,

Instead of trying to control or regulate breath,

Just knowing it as it comes in and out naturally?

So this is where it's more subtle,

Right?

And the mind tends to wander off from the object of the breath,

Knowing the breath,

The natural breath,

You know?

So I was wondering if you have any practice with this and any tips or guidelines from just knowing the natural everyday breath without trying to change,

Manipulate,

Control,

Balance,

Regulate anything like this too,

As well,

Because I find it a little bit more challenging when I'm not being actively involved with it,

Being just my intention is just knowing the natural breath,

You know?

Yeah,

You know,

And I think that all basic meditation,

When you first start,

That's the number one thing that you should do is just get to know the natural breath and be aware of,

You know,

We refer to that as what we call normal abdominal breathing.

And the reason why this is very relaxing and very settling and helping us tap into that present moment is because it's very balanced.

So when we inhale,

Our abdomen is expanding,

Which is a yang expansion,

But the inhale is yin.

So you have this balance of yang and yin.

When we do reverse abdominal breathing,

It's all yin.

So our abdomen's coming in,

Our perineum's lifting,

Our breath is coming in.

We have these three yin actions.

And when we exhale,

All three are exhaling.

This is kind of a Taoist approach to breathing where it's directing the energy.

It's very good for the muscle tendon changing,

The bone marrow and brainwashing.

It's good for all of these energetic practices that help us for leading the chi.

But if we're looking for those deeper states of presence and being more just focused in a relaxed meditation than the normal abdominal breathing and observing the breath like you're talking about is extremely valuable for that.

And again,

It's like,

Why are we doing this practice and what are the outcomes we want to get?

And that'll help us choose why we would use one breathing strategy over the other to help us with our practice.

Totally.

And the point of this Samatha is non-distraction,

Right?

And I like your method,

Too,

Of using when we get distracted to bring it back to the object in what we're doing and how that can strengthen this muscle of non-distraction.

I think,

And even more so,

The more subtle and subtle,

Is that the right word?

More subtle,

Subtler,

Subtle,

Subtle,

More subtle we can get than,

I guess,

The more deep and profound the concentration.

And then we have to ask,

Well,

Why are we doing concentration?

And that's a whole other thing.

And in the practice I'm doing,

It's to be able to build up the mind power to then and stabilize the mind with non-distraction in order to then penetrate deeper and deeper nature of reality and investigate deeper and deeper levels of experience in reality.

So yes,

When we talk about abdominal breathing,

That's fairly gross and apparent compared to the subtle breath that's just either on the upper lip or around the nostrils,

Which can then get very,

Very subtle.

And some people say,

Well,

Then once the concentration is adequate enough,

It can give rise to a light or a nimitta,

Which is this image.

And then that can merge with the breath here and then go deeper and deeper into concentration and reach these jhanic states of absorption,

Which are really vast and profound levels of penetrative absorption and concentration that then builds up this kind of mind power and strength to then take and then apply to investigating deeper and deeper levels of reality,

Or some say develop psychic powers.

I think it's a prerequisite for that.

But that can be a distraction for what the purpose of,

I guess,

Vipassana,

I'd say,

The clear seeing and knowing into deeper levels of reality and how things actually are.

So yeah,

So I appreciate all this,

Jeff.

I'm trying to think if there's anything else we left out.

Let me know if there's anything else you want to mention in the conversation.

And then take the audience out on a last message you'd like to leave us all with.

One thing that I'd like to leave you guys with,

If you're on the fence with meditation,

I've seen thousands of students through the years and the ones who have listened to the recommendation of doing at least 20 minutes a day and integrating some active practices throughout the day.

And when I say active practices,

These are things that we can do when we're walking down the street or standing in line at the grocery store.

Way to just improve our presence and awareness to kind of be in that meditative mindset and start living the practice rather than doing it as a hobby once in a while.

If you can make that minimal level of commitment and do that daily practice,

Integrate some of those active practices and keep that up for at least a year,

You'll do this practice for the rest of your life.

And you'll feel like it's one of the best things you've ever done for yourself.

And so I motivate you to get out there and put a little bit of time and energy into that,

Because I know you'll be grateful if you do it.

And I can't echo that more.

And that's a challenge for me as well.

So I really appreciate that offer for people.

And there's really no way to regret it and no downsides that I know of whatsoever.

So I appreciate your time and expertise here,

Jeff.

I've learned a lot and I'll be probably using some things you've said too.

So I'll leave the audience with,

May your meditation practice go very ideally and optimally and practically.

May all beings everywhere realize awakening and be free.

Bye.