(Discerning) Deception

This 8/29/2022 IT Live deals not so much specifics on how to directly discern deception but looks at the importance of doing so then goes deeper and broader than the surface manifestations of deception along with a blast of categories, techniques and methods to illustrate ubiquity while providing reference points for further study

Transcript

Holness,

Welcome.

This is Josh DePold from IntegratingPresence.

Com.

The event description I have for this is not so much specifics on how to directly discern deception,

But looking at the importance of doing so,

Then going deeper and broader than the surface manifestations of deception,

Along with a blast of categories and techniques to illustrate ubiquity while providing reference points for further study.

So first off,

I want to say there is zero consent given for using this information for harmful and or deceitful purposes.

So stop listening now if you've been a shred of thought that you may at some point use this information for harm or deception.

Okay,

So my intent with this is to lead towards true knowledge and liberation.

And what spurred this talk for me was,

Well,

One of the things,

There's several things,

But this question I had kind of distilled for me that explained a lot,

And I've mentioned this before,

You know,

Why do many people say one thing,

Mean another,

And then act in an entirely different way?

I think I've also mentioned before that I was voted most gullible in high school.

So how about that for laying that on somebody,

Right?

I mean,

How do I,

I'm still learning how not to shame,

Blame,

Or guilt such wards and acclamades.

That's not quite what I had in mind.

However,

The silver lining,

Of course,

Is that if that was the case,

Whether or not then it just gives that much more end of the spectrum in order to come back and go to the other end of the spectrum of wisdom.

So why is this important?

Why is it important to discern deception?

Well,

It can lead to and cultivate wisdom.

A dictionary definition here,

Having the power of discerning and judging properly as to what is true or right,

Possessing discernment,

Judgment,

Or discretion.

With this information is to identify these in more everyday life in order to build discernment skills for higher level challenges on your path,

Such as within religion,

Spiritual endeavors,

Etc.

So pretty much all this is common knowledge in everyday life or from the public domain.

For example,

I've mentioned in the past how we can use this deception,

Especially in sexual spiritual scandals in spiritual communities.

You know,

Maybe they might be overblown,

But you know,

Sometimes we hear about there's a hierarchy that are sleeping amongst each other and telling others to remain celibate,

But then choosing select individuals who they will let in on their thing and do and hide that in the background.

You know,

Sometimes it comes out,

Sometimes it doesn't,

And it comes out for various reasons,

I guess.

To go broader and deeper into just the surface manifestation of deception,

May I suggest studying archetypes.

One of the ways to look at the tarot is as human archetypes,

Especially the minor arcana.

So when we know how these specific archetypes,

People who have deep knowledge and insight and wisdom into these specific archetypes,

They can be used to help folks,

But people have the knowledge,

They can also custom target these,

I guess,

Individuals or certain areas of life where they can identify these deep architects.

They can target them for maximum effects and results.

I'm not really qualified to go into archetypes.

I feel at this point,

And plus we don't really have the time to anyway,

But I do suggest putting aside time and pay attention to any insights arising when studying and practicing with discerning deception,

How such insights that come up while looking at this can actually be applied to daily life because we can have knowledge and insight,

But if we're not applying it to our daily life,

Well then I guess you might as well just could be trivial,

Add to our knowledge of trivia,

I guess.

I'm not sure.

Although,

You know,

There's other uses,

But I'll just forego that for now.

So we look at deception itself and we come up with,

For the purpose of why people engage in deception,

A lot of times it seems to be revenge and protection.

And I would just add pleasure for psychopaths too.

I'm not entirely beyond driving some pleasure from calling out deception quite yet.

So be careful how I do it though.

And I'm not totally beyond deception myself either.

I was kind of tested a while back,

Maybe a borderline deception.

So a salesperson came up when I was talking to some folks and friends and they said,

Oh,

Came right up to me and said,

Oh,

Do you know the owner of this establishment that I was outside of?

And I was,

I said,

Yes.

I happen to know the owners of this place or maybe owner.

And actually the owner was,

One of the owners was right beside me.

Did I get off on a technicality?

I helped my friend out about this from not having to deal with this.

Maybe my excuse for this was I did take the information and I did give it to him later.

I allowed it to him to follow up.

So in a way that was a form of protection in a way.

So they didn't have to deal with it.

However,

Now if I was pressed,

There was no questions,

You know,

Who is the owner?

Can I schedule a time with the owner?

How do I get ahold of the owner?

This type of thing.

So it's a really gray line,

I feel.

So I'm open to suggestions on how to better have dealt with that situation.

I felt that it could be interpreted either way.

Now in a lot of things,

I forgot some of the details of this too.

Now I'm emitting these details probably for my own to resolve this challenge in my mind.

So I don't remember all the exact details.

This is one where it like hinges on every single word and people might say,

Oh,

Josh,

You know,

Who cares,

You know,

People deal with this every day.

It's no big deal.

And I can definitely see that.

However,

Here I am giving a talk about deception.

So I just think I found it interesting for this.

To go broader and deeper than the surface manifestations of deception,

I would definitely look into these three things more closely for own study and interest is psychopathy in general,

Revenge and protection.

One of the definitions are,

I came up with a definition of a psychopathy.

This is kind of maybe the thought of a psychopath.

Everybody will only be better off if or when I get what I want when I want it and do not get what I don't want ever.

The opposite goes for my enemies,

Challengers and competitors.

Ensure no one or nothing can run contrary to this no matter what it takes and at the same time pretending otherwise.

So this is just this cutthroat psychopathy,

Do whatever it takes.

Okay,

So now I get into the intro and build up this long list I have here that I guess probably rattle off without much commenting.

It seems like there's a fairly good amount of people on nondisclosure agreements too to make their income and make their ends meet.

So they sign these nondisclosure agreements,

From what I understand is they can't talk about certain things.

You know,

They've already signed legal agreements saying they can't say anything.

And you know,

There's pros and cons to this.

I'm not going to go into that so much.

I think that really,

This culture of nondisclosure agreements,

It needs to be scrutinized more and see where those can be minimized a lot.

I've had people back when I was in the business world,

There used to be people that wouldn't share even business ideas a lot of times without people signing a nondisclosure agreement first just to share an idea.

So now this is,

You know,

It gets really bizarre when we go beyond these mostly public techniques I'm going to mention.

And most of these will probably be Google-able,

I don't think it's a word,

Searchable on Wikipedia.

I did work in online marketing for a while and I know some of these directly,

Not necessarily just because of marketing,

Daily life,

You know,

Through observation and study and of course mostly from popular media like spy movies.

So there'll be a lot of,

You know,

Just spy techniques mentioned here because,

You know,

The art of deception,

Right?

Spies and that type of stuff.

Some of these are direct deception techniques,

But some can act as supportive to deception and some are like defensive techniques.

Some are deployed differently in different mediums given certain conditions too.

So it depends where the person is,

Where the deceiver and the deceived are interacting,

You know,

Online,

Certain situations in life,

Around certain people,

Certain times,

If this,

Then that,

Else,

Kind of thing.

And then,

You know,

We just keep in mind that some folks are naturally inclined to honesty with lying being kind of foreign to them.

And of course we all know there's the polarity of this.

And then this line from the metasutta,

Sutta on loving kindness,

I really like,

It really stuck out for me.

And I was thinking about doing an entire podcast on this.

Let none deceive another nor despise anyone in any state.

I'll just read that one more time.

Let none deceive another nor despise anyone in any state.

So uncovering deception,

At least for me in my experience,

I've noticed,

Can lead to despising.

If I see people deceiving other people or trying to deceive me,

Sometimes,

Especially when I'm not mindful,

It can lead to despising that person for what they're doing.

And so that despising can also lead to or seemingly cause or support a deceptive response in return.

So if we see someone we despise,

I don't know about we,

I mean,

I see others,

Hopefully you're not this way,

But I've seen it in tendency myself too.

So if I also just see someone as despicable,

Then there might be a incentive for deception.

Either I want to kind of feel that I have to protect myself from this despicable illness,

Or maybe it's just an inconvenience.

Maybe I found something they've done reprehensible and despicable and want to try to get revenge.

So there might be deceptive tactics creeping into the mind or heart that present themselves as options.

And when we're not conscious of that or mindful of that,

Sometimes we act on them out of revenge or protection.

And then there's the folks that who actually reverse where they want to be despised so they can in turn be deceptive and have validation for their being deceptive.

This is kind of like a,

It could be maybe a destructive twin flame type relationships,

Perhaps.

So here we go.

The list of deceit,

Trickery,

Manipulation,

And oops in advance on the lack of order or any duplicates in this.

So at the top here,

You know,

We've got the just tired old lies,

Standard old tired old lies,

Then repeating lies so often they seem true.

Got the lie and then deny,

Deny,

Deny.

So whatever comes,

Somebody says just standard blanket denial,

Deny,

Deny,

Deny.

The broad sweeping and flat denials.

So there's basing various things like programs,

Stories,

Ideals,

Actions,

Etc.

On a foundation of lies.

If something's built in the foundation of lies,

Which oftentimes it seems there are things,

Then you know,

Everything is just going to be lies on top of that because it's not true.

Getting to that foundation,

Identifying that foundation of lies.

So there's a tactic of avoidance.

Of course,

We've got the common one of reward and punishment.

You know,

Lying and deceptions are taught,

Gamed,

Revered,

They're lauded and perpetuated by mass media to get ahead.

It's inverted proving of superiority and an uplifting service to self mentality.

A lot of the media establishment,

Oh I wouldn't say a lot,

But I mean there is corporate governmental media in place to do just what I've mentioned or help support that.

By the way,

I don't know if I've mentioned these,

But I hadn't done any special study or anything.

These all just came to me over the time this occurred to me to do.

I would just write things down that came to me.

There's also catch phrases used.

There's trigger words,

Technique of fronting,

Sometimes for others and pretending to be what one is not to varying degrees in order to maintain some credibility and with varying degrees of consciousness and unconsciousness.

So this fronting,

Pretending to be what one's not to maintain credibility and sometimes it's done consciously and unconsciously.

And similarly,

Deliberately appearing to be a certain way to conceal intentions to deceive.

When somebody's trying to appear a certain way,

Conceal their intentions to deceive,

Watch for tells,

Quote unquote tells and giveaways to indicate this like sometimes Freudian slips or something interesting to pay attention to,

Body language and gestures.

Of course,

I think there was that one program with Tim Ross about the different discerning body language of lying and whatnot.

And of course we have the ever popular gaslighting and narcissism these days.

I mean,

Especially in the last couple of years,

Those have been big keywords I've heard people go into depth about gaslighting and narcissism.

Then we've got doublespeak.

We've got narrowing down subject matter to a selfish opportunistic aspect,

Sometimes distorted or twisted,

Then ignoring,

Writing off and or distracting from other facets of the subject,

Then applying other means mentioned here.

So that's a big mouthful here.

Narrowing down subject matter to just what you want to achieve,

Right?

What you hope to get out of something or what the deceiver wants to get out.

So of all the things they can cover in a subject matter,

They narrow it down to the things that fit their purpose specifically.

And sometimes of course that's distorted and twisted.

Then they ignore,

Write off or distract from the other parts of the subject.

They can add some of the techniques mentioned here.

So there's inverting and using pretty much everything said and done against the perceived opponents by claiming allowances and counter allowances.

Yeah,

Some of these are upheld as valid with and within their jurisdictional rules.

So yeah,

This is using things against people,

Coming up with excuses for why they do that.

Like they have an allowance to do it.

So and so said this and did this and because they're this,

Well then I get to do this and it's upheld by a system that I,

Certain systems of whatever,

Law or back channels if you're not going through legal systems and whatnot.

So there's tacit consent and harvesting consent.

There's influencing and indoctrinating certain morals,

Values,

Valuations,

Importance and intent and ones that are not always in the way one believes or is led to believe.

When somebody's going after someone on more of a long deception,

They can instill certain morals,

Values,

Valuations,

Importance and intent.

And some of these can be good actually,

But some of them can be just narrowed down that specifically serves what they're hoping to achieve.

And they can also instill these seemingly good things or maybe they are,

But in ways that the person believes in another way.

They think that,

Okay,

Well these things are actually mean this and go along with this,

But actually they're just there to kind of back up,

Prop up and support like hidden agendas or hidden motivations and whatnot.

So we've got leveraging social norms and peer pressure as far as arenas where this can happen to.

You've got corporate,

Private,

Governmental and military intelligence industries.

We've got hoaxes,

Stockholm syndrome,

Factitious disorder imposed on another,

FDIA.

That's not the Federal Deposit Insurance Agency by the way with the bank,

Right?

This is also called Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

So all you psychology people out there that I'm sure that's been,

You're very well familiar with studying that one.

So questions that are leading,

They call this out in courts a lot,

Leading the witness kind of thing,

Questions to lead someone in a certain direction towards what you want.

Similar to breadcrumbing and just leading in general.

Then you have language control,

Neurolinguistic programming,

But for ill.

Not too familiar with neurolinguistic programming.

There's some that claim to use it for good and ill.

Placing people in camps by different terminology choices for the same notion.

This is kind of really common these days.

So let's say you have a concept and someone refers to this concept with one word and another person used maybe a more politically correct version of this term.

People have been kind of conditioned,

Oh,

If they use this word,

They're that kind of person.

They do this kind of thing.

They're that.

For an example,

Maybe Indians,

Even though I have went to cochlear mounds on before on artistic days where Native Americans and spoke,

I have asked a few,

How do you want to be referred to?

They're referred to as Indians,

Native Americans,

Indigenous people,

Indigenous Americans.

So they said,

Oh,

That's kind.

Oh,

That's OK.

What I gathered is it really depends where your heart's at when you say something,

Right?

Yes,

Certain things,

You know,

Overall,

Because of so many different factors seem obviously more kind than others.

Just the times some of them have been deliberately gone after and supported to refer to certain things as one way over another way for all kinds of different reasons.

It's too complex to go into here.

But the important takeaway for this for me is where is your heart when you're saying words and talking to people and referring to certain things?

And I'm not saying I'm perfect with this,

Obviously,

Either.

So then we have cognitive dissonance.

This is a really big one.

And I didn't seem to be popular.

The little talk I gave on cognitive dissonance.

But this is a vital one,

I feel,

For identifying cognitive dissonance.

So we've got repetition saying the same thing over and over and over again,

Instilling a false sense of urgency,

False sense of belonging with inclusion and exclusion dynamics.

There's a technique of plausible deniability.

So then we've got non-disclosure or lack of sufficient notifications and explanations,

Then giving a cherry picked depiction,

Spin,

And glossing over vital information,

Not giving context or used out of context.

And a potential example for this is reporting on public drills and simulations.

So this is kind of a complex one I think I'm just going to not say too much more about for right now.

So then we've got the carrot and stick.

This is the common approach.

Boiling frog effect.

If you throw a frog in a boiling pot of water,

It's going to jump out.

So you do it really gradually.

You turn up the heat incrementally,

And so it doesn't even notice that it's being boiled alive.

Pavlovian conditioning.

It's a common psychological thing.

Sheet dipping.

This is an intelligence term.

Spinning outcome to defend or look benevolent.

Emitting to some minor wrongdoing,

Especially when confronted with some bigger wrongdoing.

Conditioning and relooping or repeating.

The ever common divide and conquer tactics.

Got influencing another to make one's preferred choice and make it seem like one didn't influence it,

Including having prior knowledge of another's disposition,

Personality type,

Ideals,

Habits,

Patterns,

Usual choices,

Then using ambiguity and suggestion to lead the other to make the choice one once and make it seem like they made the choice mainly on their own.

So basically this is just,

Oh,

You have a ton of information about this person,

But you don't let them know you do.

And so you know so much about them,

But you don't let on to that you know a lot about them.

And then you kind of play on that to influence them,

Have them seemingly make their own decision that benefits you.

And again,

Here I'm using you,

But you get the idea.

Okay,

So there's an illusion of something has to stop before something else can start,

Right?

You see this kind of on TV too.

Oh,

You have to get rid of this before you can start this.

This has got to end before you can really start to do this that you want to do.

Well,

Not necessarily.

The old thing can keep going and something new can start.

Katavari says,

Interesting to think sometimes deception can be considered honorable,

Like deceiving the Gestapo during World War II.

Yes,

This is the exception to deception,

Right?

This is what some claim and I'm on the fence a little bit about this.

It depends on our skill set,

Right?

So if lives are going to be saved by deception,

It's a really fine line and I think it has to be done on a case by case basis.

I'm not sure exactly if that's what's being referred to here.

I would just say to that,

Depending on your skill level,

Some people are just so trained to kind of immediately lie.

They have that skill set that it almost takes less energy for them to do that,

To lie than actually tell the truth or something.

So in that case,

When potential lies,

But then how do you know for sure if you're going to be able to save the life or not?

It's interesting with discernment.

I would just encourage people to put the extra effort into using the least amount of deception in order to achieve the same result.

As our perception expands and gets better,

We can kind of see choices and options in ways to handle and view and address things that don't need to involve deception or lying.

We don't necessarily have to give up what we want either and at the same time don't have to lie.

There's just a lot more options open up instead of the kind of conditioned response to just lie it's easier.

You don't have to use more consciousness and mind and perception to stay on track with honesty and truth and at the same time,

You don't have to give up exactly what your goals and what you're after either that way.

It takes training and practice.

Back to this,

There's the illusion that you have to have this or you have to be this way or your life won't get better.

This is a common advertising tactic.

This image of,

Oh,

You've got to have this.

Your life's going to suck.

Continue sucking until you have this or you have to adopt this way,

This lifestyle or your life is going to suck and not get better.

There's the common thing of distraction.

Look over there,

Not over here.

Nothing to see there.

Hey,

Look over there.

This is more important to look over there.

We've got overshadowing.

I'll just lump a bunch of these together here.

We've got brownstoning operations,

Honeypot operations,

Glamour,

Dazzling,

Seduction,

Traps,

Femme fatale.

Then there's compromise,

Compartmentalization,

Passing the buck,

The illusion of appropriation,

Special access,

Special treatment,

Turncoats,

Calling out,

Slash protecting.

This is like what masters and handlers will do.

They'll say to one person,

Oh,

So and so could do this to you,

Laying out the,

Having this knowledge of what this person can do,

These certain threats,

And then what kind of protection they can offer to counter this information they have,

These potential threats.

Then there's information and contact rates for various purposes.

There's the levels of dripping out information,

Dripping out contact,

Incremental,

Spaced over time.

Then you've got a steady flow of information,

Steady flow of contact.

And then there's like flooding.

So the same thing with information and contact,

Just tons of it all at once.

These different rates of contact and information flow are used in different ways for certain things.

Appeal to one's defenses.

When someone knows how they like to defend themselves or what they find worth defending,

Then appealing to those.

There's the hiding of temporary alliances,

Hiding of sleepers,

Sleeper cells,

Deactivating,

Reactivating,

Activating networks and network nodes.

There's paid actors and provocateurs.

There's enlisting personalities like actors who primarily can only find their identity or an identity in relation to others.

This common cliche of actors,

They don't know who they are.

They can just kind of find themselves in the roles they're given.

Not disclosing that actions or that one's actions or programs have little to do with what's said,

But they're actually addressing and or is part of something else are different.

So basically,

Yeah,

Pretending one way,

Doing something,

Engaging in one program.

It doesn't really have anything to do or little to do with their actually saying it is,

But it's actually addressing or is part of something else that they're not disclosing.

There's moles in infiltration,

Playing both sides,

Double and triple agents,

Controlled opposition,

Capitalizing,

Leveraging weaknesses,

Using weaknesses against fear,

Appealing to emotion over critical thinking,

Manipulating emotions,

Appealing to intellect,

Appealing to and the adoption of certain lifestyles,

Get fraud,

And then this lumped together chaos creation,

Discord,

Discordianism,

Confusion,

Disharmony.

There's resignation,

This dog eat dog to get ahead mentality,

The appeal to survivalism,

Lots of survival programming going on right now,

Using certain judgments for justifications and false justifications.

Oh,

Well,

This is this way,

So it justifies this and this,

Or false justifications.

So there's blackmail,

Discrediting,

Character assassination,

Dismissal,

Dumbing down,

Promotion of self-censorship,

Defaming,

Inciting harsh,

Divisive,

Derisive speech,

Normally unbecoming,

Basically pushing people's buttons to get them to say harsh,

Divisive,

Derisive speech that they wouldn't normally do.

There's ignoring,

Making light of something,

Veiled threats.

There's the bait and switch technique.

There's limited hangouts,

A plant,

Planting,

Mentioned.

There's hierarchical groups.

There's this term gang stalking.

There's false flags,

Ostracizing,

Blacklisting,

Shadow banning,

Con games,

Cover-ups,

Green washing,

Whitewashing,

Accusing others of what one is doing,

Accusing another of what one's actually doing.

There's victim victimizer programming,

Victim shaming,

Sexual misery programming.

Common psychological term is Stockholm syndrome.

There's narratives,

Lots of different versions of this.

Narratives,

Custom tailored narratives,

Counter narratives,

Perception management,

Image management,

Reputation management,

Reality management,

And of course narrative management.

There's psyops,

Psychological operations,

And other intel operations,

Giving some truth or giving partial truth.

There's the MKUltra project in the 70s that can be looked up.

We'll talk about Project Monarch in mass media.

There's marketing tactics,

Ritual abuse,

Shame,

Blame,

And guilt.

We've got the extremes of nihilism and eternalism.

There's transference,

Counter transference,

Projection dynamics,

Or at least knowledge of these.

Those are usually mentioned in context of therapy.

There's the technique of dumping,

Twisting words.

I don't know if I said blackmail yet or not.

Rope-a-dope,

I just recently had to look this one up.

I think this was in some old school hip hop basically meaning pretend you're dumb in order to fool an opponent and then kind of have an attack.

There's contracts,

Ransom,

Copycat tactics,

And gatekeeping.

Okay,

So that ends the list for now here.

How do we skillfully and wisely view and respond to those who deceive?

I think that's the big question here.

We can all obviously point out some or a lot of these tactics.

When we come across them,

What's the most skillful and wise way to view these?

There's a saying from the Dhammapada,

Ill will can never overcome ill will.

Only non-ill will can overcome ill will.

This is an eternal and ancient law.

To stop these cycles from continuing,

How are we going to best view this and respond to this?

How can we find dignity in those who deceive?

If we're engaged in deceiving and deception and considering changing our ways,

Can we find the dignity there?

How can we best go about or how can those best go about tapering down to eventually cease,

Especially a lot of the unwholesome,

Unskillful,

Unwise deception?

I've also tested the waters before by asking folks,

How do you deal with fools?

And to see kind of their response when that question is asked.

Do they take it as,

Oh,

He thinks I'm a fool or does he know I'm trying to fool him?

Or it's just kind of in general,

I mean,

A lot of people will kind of give a reaction to that.

It'll be like maybe somebody will say,

Oh,

Do you think I'm a fool or you think I'm fooling you?

I haven't got that response yet,

But however they answer it,

I think it's helpful for maybe they do have some wisdom on how to deal with fools too.

One thing I find is those engaging in these types of activities,

If they had more joy,

There would be less incentive to engage in these.

So when distortions and defilements and hindrances are at least held at bay,

This joy,

This natural joy can arise.

All right,

So with that,

Hope you all got something out of that.

This is one that's kind of close and dear to my heart.

I really feel that this can be a benefit,

A bigger benefit in society just because there's so much of this everywhere.

And knowing I think that where it comes from a lot,

Besides the pleasure that psychopaths get with this,

Not everybody's a psychopath,

Obviously,

That engages in deception.

Knowing that some people,

That's what they do to protect themselves.

Knowing that people use this for revenge sometimes.

There's a lot of pain out there.

And so in a way it's understandable,

But knowing that there's other ways to deal with pain than getting revenge through deception,

Knowing that we can protect ourselves other ways.

Protective practices like loving kindness actually are very helpful.

The contemplation on death.

And there's a post I've done on these protective meditations.

You can go into reading how they were or what the reasoning is behind these.

Actually it seems a little counterintuitive.

But then meditating on our spiritual guides and teachers,

One of us is on the Buddha,

Meditation on the Buddha as protection.

Godavari says,

After you've detailed all these,

It feels like the whole world is mired in deceptive tactics.

Yeah,

And that's a good point because in a way it is really prevalent.

And at the same time,

This is selection bias or just because I spent so much time and in such detail and given so much energy to this,

Maybe it's the perception that it's actually more prevalent more often than it is just because of this selective attention and stuff.

So not to write it off because of that,

But just keep that in mind too,

That of course,

If you tune into a program,

That's going to seem way more important at the time,

Especially than a lot of other things just because of all the time and energy and the support that goes into it too.

All right,

Thanks again guys for joining.

May we all come to know true joy in all of our hearts.