The Dangers Of Shame

I'm happy to invite you to listen to this fantastic and insightful conversation about what mental processes are inside of us that are doing us no good. In this episode Glenn discusses feeling shame, what it means and the dangers of dwelling in it.

Transcript

Welcome to Life,

Lessons and Laughter with your host Glenn Ambrose.

Hello everyone.

Welcome to the podcast.

Today we're talking about a real upbeat subject,

Guilt.

What?

Shame.

No,

What happened is we're talking about shame,

By the way.

No what happened is like as you were clicking the button or something,

I thought of this earlier episode we did and I was like,

Oh yeah,

We did this show,

One of the podcasts,

Early podcast on guilt.

Yeah,

It was like episode four or something.

Yeah,

Really early on.

And then you started to record and I'm like,

Hey,

Guilt came out.

Whoa.

Anywho,

But I don't have guilt about saying that or shame.

Okay.

I could easily go back and just start this over,

But I don't think that's a good idea.

No,

No.

You're a man of little shame.

Actually when we were discussing,

I don't know if that's true or not.

I know that when we started,

Before we were recording when you first got here today,

I brought up the subjects and you were like,

Well,

I don't know shame in my life.

So I don't know.

Yeah.

Well,

I was being a wise guy,

But I've experienced my show of shame.

It's too bad Dave's not here today.

He would be a great person to have on this episode.

He basically just walks around with that person from Game of Thrones behind him.

You know what I'm talking about?

It's probably a wonderful analogy.

Oh my God.

I don't know.

Somebody would like ring the bell and just shame.

I don't know.

Yeah.

So neither of us watch Game of Thrones.

You can send your hate mail to… To Ben,

Not Glenn.

So shame,

I think opening up,

The biggest thing to understand is,

And I can't even say this without mentioning her name,

Brené Brown is just phenomenal.

She's researched this for years and has extremely profound and detailed work on this subject.

And she's where I got a lot of my deeper understandings about it.

So she explains that there's a big difference between feeling guilty and feeling shame.

And I believe she says something like feeling guilty is saying that I shouldn't have done something,

Or there's something wrong with what I did that's feeling guilty.

And then shame is saying that there's something wrong with me.

So there's a big difference between those two.

And that's why shame is so dangerous because you actually start believing that there's something wrong with you.

And you're dysfunctional and broken and not good enough.

You start believing stuff like that about yourself.

It's just horrible.

The blows that it takes on your self-esteem and things like that.

And we're just saying,

I have no shame.

I have no shame.

And as I'm talking,

I just flashed right back to my entire childhood.

I was in school,

The ADHD kid that they didn't diagnose it back then.

I was just a big pain in the ass.

I wasn't a kid with ADHD.

So every year,

Every class,

Every day,

It was Glenn.

Turn around,

Glenn.

Stop it,

Glenn.

Stop talking,

Glenn.

Stop entertaining the class,

Glenn.

Cut it out,

Glenn.

And Glenn,

Okay,

Finally,

Glenn,

Go to the office,

Glenn.

You know what happens to somebody's self-esteem when they're constantly being corrected every day for 12 years over and over and over and over again?

It's just no wonder by the time I hit junior high and started having thoughts on my own,

I started going like,

Okay,

Well,

I'm obviously a dysfunctional mess.

I mean,

I can't do anything right.

I'm always being corrected.

I must be bad.

I must be wrong.

Why don't I just embrace that and go with it?

And that was the beginning of my end.

And I mean,

I literally remember consciously thinking that,

Going,

I'm trying to be good and I'm literally physically incapable of being a good person.

And I've had seven years of school to prove that on a daily basis.

So okay,

You win.

I suck.

I'm bad.

I'll just be bad now.

And I started being bad and I found out I was really good at being bad.

I was like,

Oh my God,

I should have been doing this all along.

I'm in the office anyway.

Why don't I have some fun getting there instead of trying to be good the whole time?

I experienced a profound level of shame about myself and it directed the path that I went for another 20 years.

So yeah,

I might have a little experience with it and what it can do.

All right.

On my end,

I've never been ashamed of anything that I've ever done in my entire life.

Your nose has grown.

It's funny,

When you were explaining yourself in school,

I was like,

Oh,

I see that.

Yeah.

I don't think it's too difficult.

I literally got class clown in every grade,

Like elementary,

Junior high,

High school,

Like every school I went to.

Sometimes when we're recording shows and you and Dave are together,

When we're not rolling,

I'm like,

Guys,

Guys,

Come on,

Focus.

Hey.

Oh yeah.

I've been an adult.

Stop messing around.

I'm horrible in classroom situations.

I've been an adult and really focused on training,

Like really going like,

Okay,

I really want to learn this and I have to learn this.

The teacher starts talking and I'm gone,

Man,

Like 30 seconds in.

I either need to go to sleep or entertain myself.

Those are the only two options.

I'm an adult and I'm interested.

I want to learn this stuff and I just cannot do it.

I can't do it.

It's a struggle.

It is and that's the difference and I laugh at it now because obviously I've worked through it.

When you're going through it,

It's very difficult,

That level of shame going,

Oh,

There must be something wrong with me.

I think as a general rule,

Everybody experiences that to some degree just because of social conditioning,

Domestication.

It's like we come into this world from the other side of pure love and then we come in here and we're going,

Oh,

Everything is love and my parents love me and everybody loves me and everything is okay and we're safe.

This is just like a little adventure down here and everything is wonderful and God loves us and all this stuff.

When we get born into this society,

That teaches us fear and this thing called time and we have to do things at times.

Don't eat when you're hungry.

You eat when you're told to eat and don't trust yourself.

Don't trust your own body telling you when it needs food.

People will determine when you need food and you can't listen to your own body.

That's just one.

I'm a parent.

This has always been difficult for me because raising my son,

Me being conscious and awake,

I'm constantly having to try to figure out what do I teach him and what do I not.

There's part of me that wants to teach him,

No,

It's cool.

There's no such thing as time.

I would love to teach him that because he'd always be in a present moment but you can't fit into society without understanding that there's a concept as time.

So then you have to teach him that and it's like,

So it's this dichotomy that I go back and forth with sometimes,

Especially when he was younger.

It's a little easier now.

It's that social conditioning that we're taught not to trust ourselves,

Not to trust our feelings,

That we're not good enough.

Then all of a sudden,

We have to break out of that and find out that we are good enough and we are enough and we don't need to have shame and we're not broken.

I think I just summed up the whole thing about waking up.

That's kind of what waking up is,

Getting rid of our shame and finding out that we are good enough.

That's ironic because of something that we talked about right before the show started.

I was telling you that right after I leave this recording session,

I'm going to teach my last improv class for this semester to a bunch of middle school kids.

I end every session of improv with.

.

.

The big things in improv for acting are yes and so you have to agree to a situation and then you have to add to the situation and you have to be there for your partner and then you're not supposed to think too much about it.

You're not supposed to think.

You're supposed to accept that the thing that's going to come to your mind is enough.

At the end of every session,

I remind them of that.

I thank them for coming and then I try to impress that because I didn't want to teach just an acting class,

Which is so silly of me,

But I did want to teach just an acting class because I thought that the tenets of improv are so well used outside of it that I give a little speech about how the thing that I really want you to take from this class is that you are enough.

You are enough as you already are.

You are smart enough.

You are good enough.

You are funny enough.

You are kind enough.

You can do whatever you want.

If you want to act,

You can go act.

If you want to be a lawyer,

You can go be a lawyer or a dentist or whatever.

That always goes over really well with the kids.

But they look at me like no one goes out of their way to tell them this.

And a lot of times they don't because like I said,

I'm a parent,

So I get it.

There's times in my life,

And I'm a conscious parent I think.

I like to think of myself as that.

I still catch myself criticizing my son,

Correcting because when things are flowing smoothly,

Sometimes it's like,

Oh,

Okay,

Good,

Finally.

Things are going cool,

Like all right,

Good.

You're getting the flow and you're just going.

And then all of a sudden something goes wrong and it's like,

No,

We can't head in that direction.

We have to go here.

And you try to correct it.

But if you're not living consciously enough and you understand that that's the only direction you give your children,

Just constantly correcting,

Constantly correcting,

It's not that we can't correct them.

It's just that that can't be the only thing we do.

So that's what I catch myself in rhythms of sometimes,

Just constantly correcting.

Fortunately,

I think the consciousness of me has helped me explain things to him.

So like when I catch myself in doing that for a period of time,

I'll sit him down and I'll go,

Okay,

Listen,

I've noticed that recently I'm constantly correcting you.

And I want you to understand that that's not because there's something wrong with you.

You're good enough.

It's just this is what I'm trying to teach you.

I fell into the pattern of it and I'll explain exactly what happened so he doesn't take it on him personally and go,

Okay,

I'm not good enough.

So I guess that's how I try to correct that situation when I fall into that pattern.

But our kids are constantly being corrected.

And when you told me you were going to give that speech,

I was like,

It reminds me of whenever somebody does that thing on Facebook where they go like,

Oh,

If you could tell your younger self one thing,

What would it be?

And I always see somebody put that you are enough.

And usually multiple people put it.

And it's like because as adults,

We understand that that's a big deal.

You are enough as you are.

So what?

Ben's laughing at me and I don't know why.

I'm getting harder than usual so I need to find out why.

I just thought I would tell my younger self that roasted vegetables are delicious.

No,

You can't.

It's not a lie.

It is.

That's not a lie.

I know.

Just kidding.

I'm going to give you before you leave today,

I'm going to send you home with what I made for dinner last night if you think that that's a lie.

No,

It's not a lie.

But I'll still take the stuff for dinner.

So anyway,

Which actually by the way,

I just made a joke there but that ties into some shame that I have,

That I've always felt.

And my big question is,

Do you think shame is purely systemic?

Do you think that shame,

Because you talked a lot about how shame comes from societal norms and how,

So basically like society has put so many boxes in so many things that if you don't fit into every single one of them perfectly,

That's generally where somebody's shame starts to come from,

Right?

Yes.

But it's really not that simple because you can have,

It depends on the parents that you have.

You could have some cool uncle that helps you with it.

It depends on your capability of absorbing things.

My sister grew up in the same household as I did but she absorbed things differently than I did so we turned out very differently in a lot of ways.

So it's like it depends on,

Like I always say,

Things that affect us and who we are as people basically depends on two things.

Our experience is meshed with our personality because different people's personalities absorb different things,

The same experience in different ways and we all have different experiences.

So it's like it's how you absorb that.

Some people can bat it away easier.

Some people are more sensitive and take it on.

Like I said,

Sometimes somebody's got a cool uncle so that just says something at the right time and they go,

And all of a sudden it clicks.

They go,

Oh no,

Yeah,

I'm completely good enough and I'll take what people say but I'm not going to absorb it and they just move on.

And you're like,

Are you freaking kidding me?

That could happen to a six-year-old and he could have no problem with shame forever no matter what society does.

So we can't quantify exactly what it is.

It can be a mixture of things.

It's just what we have to do is recognize it within us and see what it is and see how detrimental it can be if we don't deal with it because shame heads right in a direction of depression which depression is hopelessness because if you did something wrong and you think that there's something wrong with what you did,

That's guilt.

You can change what you do in the future but if you think that there's something wrong inherently with you,

That can't be fixed so you think.

So there's no hope there.

There's no hope for anything different and that's depression and depression is the lowest vibrating energy.

Anger frustration is above depression because depression,

You don't have the hope or the drive or the energy to do anything differently because you don't think it's possible.

So anger is actually a higher vibration because it can force you into change.

So that's why shame is so scary because when you think that there's something wrong with you,

Well,

Then what?

How do you fix that?

Now you're depressed.

So when we see that there's shame there,

We have to deal with that.

We have to deal with that and get rid of that because there's no way we can be who we need to be carrying that around.

To me,

It's basically the same as prejudice.

I've said in the past that you cannot be spiritual and happy if you're prejudiced against anything or anyone.

You can't because you're just saying,

I'm better than something else.

So you're separating yourself from the whole and you're putting yourself higher than other things and as long as you're doing that,

It's going to block your spiritual growth at some point.

It's the same thing with shame.

If you are carrying that around,

It is going to block your spiritual growth at some point.

You cannot continue being a better,

More expansive expression of yourself if you think that there's something wrong with you.

So it's like being prejudiced against yourself.

You think that there's something inherently wrong with you as a being and as long as you're carrying that,

You can't expand.

I think everybody experiences it to some degree,

So you're in good company and we can work through it.

It's just a thing.

It's not true.

There isn't something wrong with you no matter what you're shameful of.

I think the most common thing with shame is child molestation.

That's just such a perfect example of shame and where it comes from and how it's not true because most often a child that is molested thinks that there's something wrong with them and that's why it happened.

It's obviously not true.

There isn't anything wrong with that child and it's not their fault that it happened.

So if we can see that,

If we can hold that up as an example and go,

Oh,

Okay,

So it's the same shame that that child is experiencing is the same energy called shame that I'm experiencing.

Well,

If there's nothing wrong with that child that experienced that,

Then there must be nothing wrong with me because I'm experiencing the same energy and it's caused by something else.

So hopefully that can give you the hope that you can work through this and get some help.

And again,

If you're feeling it,

Get some help from somebody and Google Brene Brown.

Shame Brene Brown and she's got some great free YouTube stuff out there that you can watch on it.

So shame being the thing that you,

All right,

I just want to simplify this one more,

One last time.

Guilt is thinking that you did something wrong.

Shame is thinking that you are something wrong,

That there is something wrong with you.

And shame is always a leading source of depression.

Or not always.

I don't know if I can say always,

But boy.

There could be external factors.

It's a very strong component.

Oftentimes if you look,

You're going to find shame in there.

I don't know if I can say always.

But if you,

Well obviously other things could lead to depression,

But shame will tend to lead to depression because if you're thinking that there's something fundamentally wrong with you,

Then naturally you're screwed.

And what better to get depressed about than thinking that you're screwed.

And there is no hope for the future.

So yeah,

That's the thing.

So that's why it's so dangerous.

We can't think that there's something wrong.

I think subconsciously it's a little bit perpetuated in our society with everybody walking around going,

Well,

We're not perfect.

Nobody's perfect.

Well,

Yeah,

We actually are all perfect in a spiritual mentality.

We're not all perfect in a human mentality.

Nobody's perfect in a human mentality because there's no such thing as perfection in a human mentality because everybody's different.

But fundamentally at your core we're spiritual beings having a human experience.

So in reality,

Eternally,

Who we actually truly are as a spiritual being,

We are perfect.

And that,

Which kind of leads into the crux of bigger spiritual teachings,

Which obviously I'm not going to get into now,

But one of the core spiritual teachings is that we are perfection at our core.

There's basically two of us.

If we go,

I can't live with myself,

Like Eckhart Tolle went through during his.

.

.

Reviews

Good stuff man :)

Love the way you approach serious topics, in a light way that makes the listener feel like many of life's issues are actually repairable, and that they are not alone. 💚

Very insightful, thanks lads 💜x

Great talk! Love how you break things down and make things so much more relatable ❤️
Go Glenn and Ben!🌟👍🏻