Religion & Spirituality

I'm jumping into the conversation of religion and spirituality. We look at the underlying truths that these two things have in common and how they affect our lives.

Transcript

Welcome to Life,

Lessons and Laughter with your host Glenn Ambrose.

Hello,

Welcome to Life,

Lessons and Laughter with Glenn Ambrose.

I'm here with Ben Barber,

Laughing profusely.

The look in your eyes when you just,

Like,

Dave hit record and you looked at me and you were just on.

I was on,

Man.

You had this goofy look in your eye,

It was ridiculous.

Like,

I'm gonna nail this opening.

And I did.

I don't even know if you did.

And you screwed it up.

Bite your tongue.

Let's go right into it,

Man.

Alright.

We're having a conversation about religion and spirituality.

Religion versus spirituality.

No.

Religion and spirituality,

We're not pitting them against each other.

Religion in one corner,

Spirituality in the other,

Who's gonna win?

No.

We are.

Humanity is.

Or we're all gonna lose.

No.

Sorry,

I just wanted to drop it down for a minute.

For real,

Though.

So,

Yeah.

The,

You know,

A lot of times it is kind of pitted like that.

Spirituality versus religion and all this stuff.

And it's,

I think,

You know,

Whenever there's a,

Whenever there's a battle,

We're putting negative energy out there,

You know.

And it's,

Religion,

Religion has done a lot of good for the world.

It's also done a lot of bad,

You know.

It's misuse.

Religion,

The point of religion is to open up people to spirituality.

It should be a pathway to spirituality.

And when it's used as that,

Wonderful things,

Wonderful things come out of it.

When it's not used for that,

It's like anything else in this world.

When it's used for bad,

Bad things happen.

You know,

When it's used for good,

Good things happen.

So,

I think we can see that in social media.

I mean,

Huge.

But the,

You know,

It doesn't have to be pitted against each other.

It's,

If we say that spirituality is better than religion,

Then we just jumped right into the problems.

With religion.

With people misusing religion.

You know,

When people misuse religion,

They say my way is the best way.

You have to think like me,

Or else you're an infidel and therefore not truly human,

So therefore I can kill you.

So,

When you use it in that way,

Then it's bad.

So,

That's why I don't want to pit them against each other.

You know,

I want.

.

.

But they're kind of against each other.

They're not.

It's just a different pathway to it.

Like,

I.

.

.

The way I look at my spiritual beliefs is that they're more spiritual,

And I don't really use religion as my pathway to connect with my spirituality.

Okay.

So,

Let's strip this down.

Religion.

Yes.

What is religion?

Religion is,

It's the pathway to spirituality.

It's dogma.

Okay.

It's dogma.

It's structure.

It's structured dogma.

It's guidance.

Examples being Christianity.

Buddhism.

Buddhism.

You name it.

Hinduism.

I mean.

.

.

Islam.

Yes.

All of them.

Okay.

It's just structured ways to get to spiritual truths.

If you do this,

If you say this,

Then you will connect to spirit,

Which all the major religions believe in one god.

So,

I mean,

Even Hinduism.

You know,

It's like,

They have all the different gods and goddesses that they pray to,

So people think that they believe in all gods.

No,

They only believe in one god.

It's just that.

.

.

I mean,

That's kind of,

I would imagine that it's kind of like praying to a saint if you're Catholic.

Well,

Right,

Yeah.

Angels,

Stuff like that.

Yeah.

Angels and saints,

It's the same version.

Hindus,

They just have different gods that kind of represent different areas,

But they believe in one god.

So,

They're all just structured paths that people can use to connect with God or the spirit or the universe or divine energy,

Whatever you want to call it.

It's that connection that we're looking for,

You know,

And different spiritual truths,

Like that we should love one another,

That we are all one,

That there are consequences for our actions.

These are spiritual truths that underlie everything.

Every religion believes in them because they're truth,

They're facts,

You know?

Facts are very rare in this world,

But those are some of them.

The way we implement those into our lives can be dictated to us through religions,

And there's lots of people who benefit from the structure of religion.

You know,

Like if you tell somebody,

Okay,

I want you to open your heart and connect to God,

They'd look at you like,

How do I do that?

You know,

Because of our mentality,

We don't understand how to do that.

But if somebody says,

Okay,

I want you to open your heart and connect to God,

And I'm going to teach you how,

What you need to do is you need to get down on your knees to symbolize that there's a power greater than yourself.

And then you need to try to open your heart and feel gratitude and love for this thing that's greater for yourself and ask for its help and really feel it in your heart.

Oh,

Okay.

So then they get that,

Because they've got instructions,

Then they do that.

Now,

The fact that they got down their knees,

Does that actually connect them with God?

No,

It doesn't.

The fact that they got down on their knees as a symbol because they believe in their head that it shows something and it helps them connect to God,

That's why it works for them,

Because they believe that it does.

You know,

That's what religion does for us.

It takes spirituality and it kind of brings it into this world and gives us a little pathway between this world that we live in and the spiritual laws that are on the other side.

It makes them understandable to us.

So where's the hang-up?

Because there's,

You know,

If there were no.

.

.

Would it be.

.

.

Do you think that if there were no religions there would be less?

Like,

Imagine,

Like the song Imagine.

Like,

If there were no religions.

.

.

That was going through my head as you were saying.

I started saying,

I'm like,

Well,

Just play the song.

No war.

Like,

Do you think that it would be.

.

.

Obviously not no war,

There's still going to be,

I want that,

Give me that,

You know,

But religion is now,

I want that,

Give me that,

Also God said,

God called me,

He said that's mine.

Yeah,

Yeah,

My God says I'm supposed to have that.

Yeah,

It's the idea that we're separate is fading.

I mean,

Even in religions,

You know,

I mean,

There hasn't been,

To my knowledge,

There hasn't been times in human history where you have the heads of different religions going to other religions,

You know,

And acknowledging them and saying that,

Oh,

This is just their way.

Of worshiping the same God,

They just do it in a different way.

You know,

The major religions are actually starting to do that now.

And it's,

I think it's the beginning of the connection we need to make.

We have to understand that.

It's just different,

Different pathways to the same God.

Deep thought.

There's a big difference.

Well,

I just,

As much as you,

The only person,

This is my thought,

To say it is not spirituality versus religion is,

To me,

Something that is only said from the side of spirituality.

Spirituality does not think that it is in a fight with religion.

But I would venture to believe that if you are on the side of religion,

You are,

You would listen to this podcast and go— I don't agree.

I don't agree,

And I'll tell you why.

Because I believe,

I listen to a lot of religious people,

Interviews,

Read their books,

And the ones who are using,

In my opinion,

Using religion properly as a pathway to their spirituality are completely on board.

They get it.

But those are spiritual people.

Yes.

But that's,

Like,

See,

To me,

It's very easy to see,

If you're using religion as a weapon,

Then you're using it wrong.

And I mean,

If you say that we're supposed to use it as weapons,

Then I really don't have a lot to talk to you about.

Because that's your opinion and you have a right to it.

You can keep it.

You can—my belief is that if we kill—like,

All religions say,

Thou shalt not kill.

So,

Like,

That's a core belief.

We're not supposed to kill each other.

So,

If you're using religious reasons to go kill other people,

I think you're missing something.

So,

If—but if that's your belief,

Go live with it.

Go do what you need to do.

It's not my business.

I'm not going to try to talk you out of it.

Well,

What about the guy that's just—or girl—that is just undereducated about anything,

Is just—but is a good person?

Like,

They have been raised a certain way to believe a certain thing.

They believe in—they maybe themselves,

In their core,

Believe,

Like—say I was raised,

Like,

Christian—the classic,

Like,

Crazy Bible thumping,

Like,

All of the bad things that—no,

All of the bad stereotypes that Christians have.

That,

Like,

Christians get in America.

You know,

I was raised that gay marriage is wrong.

I was raised that Muslims are bad people.

But they're like,

I don't think that,

But I also,

Like,

They're not actively doing anything against it.

They're just like,

I have a gay friend,

I love them,

But I don't think they should get married because God doesn't want it to be,

Because that's all I know.

Right.

So what's the question?

My question is,

Like,

Where do those people—those people aren't spiritual,

Like,

They're not—they're using religion wrong because that's all they know.

There's a wall there.

Well,

Are they really using it wrong,

Though?

I mean,

You know,

Like,

If they have a gay friend and they're showing that gay friend love in their friendship,

Then they're spreading love.

Like,

That in itself,

That's it.

So,

They're good there.

Now,

If they,

You know,

If they go—if they abandon their friend because their friend wants to get married,

Well,

Then that's their belief.

They have a right to their belief.

Now,

Do I think that's right?

Personally,

No,

I don't,

But I don't think that everybody else has to believe what I believe.

My thought is they're not actively like,

They're not actively like,

I'm not gonna be your friend because you want to get married,

But I'm not gonna vote for you to get married.

Like,

They're in their personal relationship,

They're spreading love,

But,

Like,

Because of their beliefs,

Like,

They've put—their religion has put a cap on what they're willing to do as a person.

Well,

I don't know what the problem is with that.

I mean,

Everybody—you know,

The whole point is that we need to be able to believe what we believe.

That stems the whole controversy is that everybody's supposed to believe a certain way.

So,

I mean,

If we got rid of all the religion on the planet tomorrow and we had everybody just kind of,

Okay,

Nobody kills anybody and we all make room for each other's beliefs,

There would still be people on this planet that say,

You know what,

I don't think two gay people should be in a relationship.

So what?

What does that have to do with the two gay people who want to be in a relationship?

If we make room for everybody to have their own beliefs,

Nobody gets hurt by other people's beliefs.

We get hurt by other people's beliefs when they try to impose them on us.

You know,

This idea that we're all supposed to agree on everything is unrealistic.

It's never going to happen.

Okay.

You're absolutely right.

But that's what I'm saying as far as,

Like,

In those ways,

Like,

People that—and that wasn't necessarily an extreme because it's definitely a real situation that happens all over the place.

But somebody that is in that mindset,

Religious-wise,

And they follow their religion,

They are probably not going to believe that,

Like,

All paths are leading to the one place or,

You know— Right.

That's why I still think,

Like,

They,

Even though they're maybe not bad people,

Are looking at it as religion versus spirituality because I feel like they would assume that spirituality is its own religion.

Well,

Right.

And there's going to be a section of religious people that you just nailed it,

You know?

They're going to think exactly like that because there's room for all kinds of thoughts,

And that's a very realistic viewpoint that some of them are going to take.

My perception on that is that they don't get it.

They don't understand truly what their religion was put on this planet to do.

You know,

They don't quite get it yet.

Because when I sit there and I listen to Catholic and Christian and—which is,

You know,

Pretty rampant in this country—when I listen to people that are really expanding,

Like,

When I see Joel Osteen and Rob Bell and— Oh,

I can't think.

Ed something.

I can't think of his last name.

But I've listened to a lot of them,

And what they're doing is they're using their religion for benefiting people's lives,

Bringing love into their lives,

Bringing compassion,

Kindness,

Caring into people's lives,

And teaching them how to use it in a realistic way that enhances them and those around them.

And that,

To me,

Is what religion is used for.

Now,

You're going to have other people using it for war and to separate,

And there's nothing that I'm going to do about that,

You know?

If that's what somebody's bound and determined to use it for,

Then they have the right to use it for that.

I'm not going to be able to stop them.

I just personally don't believe that that's its purpose.

You know,

So basically what I'm expressing here really is my own beliefs.

People can come in and say,

No,

Absolutely not.

They can quote me 23 Bible verses that says that,

You know,

You've got to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior or else you're going to hell.

And if they believe that,

That's fine.

They can have that,

You know,

And apparently I'm going to hell,

You know,

Which is fine in their mind.

I'm not worried about it because I know that I'm not,

And I love Jesus.

But I don't follow that religion,

You know?

I just,

I go,

I consider myself to go to the spiritual trusa undulai.

Then when I go to a Catholic mass,

And when I go,

When I learn about Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism,

And when I look at all these things,

What I do is I look for the spiritual trusa underneath,

And I can learn from all of them.

And I can learn them from different perspectives,

And it's fulfilling and it's opening and it's joyous,

And I love it,

You know?

And I don't worry about,

Am I a Buddhist?

No,

I'm not.

Am I Catholic?

No,

I'm not.

I'm not any of them,

But I can,

If I look for the,

They expanded for a reason.

And the reason they expanded is because they're based in goodness and love.

And when we get back to that goodness and love,

You know,

It fulfills us.

It does the job that they were meant to do.

When we get away from that love and we start using it for other reasons,

You know,

That's when the trouble starts.

The easiest thing for me to do when I was,

Speaking of dogma,

You know,

Because I think that that's where the troubles lie,

The easiest thing for me to do as a child was to being raised,

Not Catholic,

Being raised Baptist,

Was to look at Catholics who are not,

That different,

You know,

In the grand scheme of things.

Like,

It's,

They're both Christian religions,

Both based on the same,

You know,

The basic stories are still the same.

And yet,

It was very easy to go,

Why do they have a bunch of rules I don't have?

You know?

Like.

.

.

Well,

And that's what's happening more and more is people looking at it going,

Why do I have so many rules?

Like,

I was always like,

Why?

I don't understand that you're being taught like the same Bible verse of like the Ten Commandments,

Thou shall have no other gods before me.

And the same story of Moses coming down and them praying to the idols and how you should not pray to the idols,

You should only pray to God,

And then you pray to Mary.

And like,

I don't,

Like,

Those were things as a kid that was just like,

What is going,

Or like,

The whole deal with purgatory not being a thing anymore.

Well,

That's the problem with man-made,

Like,

That's the problem with,

That we're seeing with religions,

The dogma of the religions.

And I think that the reason we're seeing the problem with it is because we're leaning on the dogma too much and not enough on the spirituality which lies within it.

You know,

So the dogma is just a bunch of man-made belief systems that will fail.

Everything that is man-made,

It's,

You know,

The one thing that we know is everything in this world changes.

So,

If we make it,

It changes.

Spiritual laws remain the same.

So,

If,

As our beliefs change,

As our,

You know,

As you see,

You know,

Structures of the industrial age and corporate America are not the same as they used to be,

Organized religion,

It's the same.

It's all these things that you have to believe this way,

You have to believe this way,

Do because I said so.

People aren't swallowing that anymore.

And that's what's,

It's shaking the foundation of these religions.

And,

You know,

Honestly,

I don't know if somebody were to ask me what I would like to have happen,

I don't know what I would like to have happen.

I don't know if I would rather have these religions crumble and then maybe dive straight into spirituality or if we can reshape these religions to get people to point,

You know,

Pointing at spirituality and save these religions because they've done so much good in the world if they used properly.

You know,

A lot of people need the structure.

A lot of people don't nowadays.

But there are still,

There still is a large group of people on this planet that benefit from structure,

You know,

That the dogma gives.

They benefit from the guidance that somebody that studies this religion and spirituality can give them.

They benefit from the community that they get,

The support that they get when things are,

You know,

When they're in extreme situation,

The counsel that they get,

The act of confession in Christian religions,

You know,

Purging,

Getting absolution,

The hope.

The glimmer of hope.

They get that from the structure of religion.

That's a way for them to achieve those things and bring them into their lives and the structure of it helps.

Now,

You can have all that stuff with spirituality too,

But some people really need somebody to hold their hand and help them walk to those things.

I think that I've,

I think that I know I can point to something that is very similar to,

I think,

What you're talking about.

It's another dogma thing that always got me tripped up when I was a kid.

Judaism is Christianity,

But they stopped believing at a specific date in time.

And Christianity based in Judaism,

Right?

We believe everything that is,

You know,

Their Bible is our Old Testament.

And they had so,

Judaism is filled with rules and specific things and traditions and all of this stuff.

And Christianity is basically like,

Jesus came,

Took all of the rules of Judaism that were like,

Written on an Etch-a-Sketch and just shook the thing and went,

Here guys,

Just love each other.

And like,

All of the,

Like,

Christians should believe in all of the stuff that is in Judaism,

But we were told at one point,

Hey,

I'm here now,

Forget all this stuff,

Just love each other and believe in me.

And I think that what you're talking about is something happening where all of the dogmas,

All of the religions get shaken and gone,

This is it.

Just do this from now on.

And like I said,

I mean,

For me,

I connect with the spiritual truths,

So I don't need the dogma.

But that's not to say a huge portion of the population doesn't.

That's why I'm like,

Would I want all the religions to go?

Probably not.

They can do wonderful things for a lot of different people who aren't exactly like me.

And there's a whole world full of people who are not exactly like me,

You know?

And there's plenty of people who are.

And that can,

It's just about finding what connects within you.

And you know,

What you just said is really,

You know,

Just love each other.

And I heard somebody talking about,

And actually,

I'm almost positive it was one of the Christian preachers that I was listening to,

And they were saying how if Jesus were to come back today,

He'd be disappointed because everybody got caught up in all the dogma and they forgot just love each other.

That's what he was here teaching.

Just love each other.

Just love each other.

Put that first.

Just love each other.

And here we are,

2,

000 years later,

Killing each other.

And sometimes we say it's in His name,

Sometimes we say it's in other people's names and whatever,

But we're all killing each other,

Saying,

I'm right,

You're wrong,

And you have to do it my way.

And all Jesus wanted was for us to love each other.

And it's like,

We missed it.

2,

000 years later,

We missed the whole thing.

That's,

Yeah.

What do you think about Pope Francis?

I don't know that much about him.

What I do know is that I believe he was one of the ones going to other heads of religions and connecting them.

So,

I mean,

I think it shows a level of understanding of spirituality.

I think it shows an aspect of realism.

There's definitely a lot of realism compared to the.

.

.

Well,

For you too.

Yeah,

I mean,

The world is shrinking,

You know,

With the internet and everything.

We know,

Like,

For me,

You know,

To,

At 10 years old,

For me to know that there's Buddhism on the other side of the world,

It was such an abstract thought that I may have seen in a National Geographic magazine in the back of a school library.

Yeah.

And,

You know,

I think that's what I was thinking.

I was thinking,

You know,

I was thinking about the end of the world,

We know what's going on out there.

So,

You can't really be raised,

It's not as easy to be raised not knowing that there's other people who believe other things.

When I was a kid,

I mean,

I thought Catholicism was everything.

You know,

Because that's all I was,

That's all,

I was taught that that's fact.

And it's,

I wasn't taught that it was a belief system.

You know,

So,

So I,

You know,

Once I got older and I started questioning things,

I was like,

Oh my God,

This how many Buddhists?

Seriously?

And they're all going to hell?

I'm not buying it.

You know,

That's when I started questioning things.

I'd like to point out several things.

One,

When we started this podcast,

You said,

Not this particular,

But the whole life lessons and laughter.

One,

You said,

I'd like to stay away from the spiritual stuff.

And in the last three episodes,

You have destroyed that.

Yes!

I did do that.

I kind of wanted to,

And for me,

It was a natural progression,

You know,

And I'm glad we did it the way we did it.

It's like,

This is why I just go with my gut,

Because it feels right.

You know,

I did,

I want to kind of go out there,

Get an audience and not have a specific aspect,

But I'm growing as,

I'm growing as this podcast is going on.

You know,

And it's just,

It takes on a life of its own.

And yeah,

I did want to connect to everybody and show everybody first that you don't have to be spiritual to be able to apply the principles that I talk about into your daily life.

If I would have come out of the gate as spiritual and then tried to double back and teach every,

People's minds snap shut.

Spirituality,

No,

Don't believe in it.

Religion,

No,

You know.

And then you can't break through that wall to get to them.

But I broke,

You know,

Discussed it ahead of time,

And then now I can come back from,

You know,

Come in from the other side and say,

You know what,

We've been discussing for over a year now?

Spirituality.

It's all in there.

It's all the same stuff.

It's just different verbiage.

Yeah.

Two,

We got through an entire half hour podcast on spirituality and religion without me agreeing or disagreeing on a single viewpoint,

I feel like.

So this is good.

I don't think I've,

I don't think I've played the fence perfectly as to,

You know,

Dogma versus,

It's a weird thing,

The whole,

Like,

Religion versus,

Because I still,

I think that it is a little bit of religion versus spirituality as much as it shows up.

As much as it shouldn't be.

Yeah.

And I do believe it shouldn't be.

I think that that's,

I think,

You know,

I think it's the more,

You know,

My opinion is if we connect to where we're similar,

You know,

Start there and then work our way backwards,

We have a better chance of staying connected.

You know,

So connect with something like we should love one another,

You know,

That's something that I would have,

I would find it hard for anybody that claims to be religious to argue against.

Shouldn't we love one another?

Yeah.

Well,

If we start there and then work off of that without breaking that rule first,

Then we might be able to find room for us all to have our own beliefs without losing that primary component,

That we can love each other and still make room for everybody to believe their own way and worship their own way.

I'm interested to see where this podcast ranks as far as listeners.

We're going to have to promote the heck out of it.

I don't know.

I don't know if it'll be more or less.

Okay,

So where can people find you?

They can find me at life-enhancement-services.

Com or on my Facebook page,

Life Enhancement Services,

Or Glen Ambrose with Two N's Facebook page.

So look me up and I'd love to hear your takes on what we discussed and any input,

Any show ideas,

All that stuff.

And if I said anything that offended anybody today,

Religious-wise,

Please send all hate mail to glenambrose at gmail.

Com.

I don't know,

Whatever your email was,

Don't send it to me.

It's gambrose.

Les at gmail.

Com.

Get a simpler email address.

Yeah.

Now it's on all my cards and stuff,

Though.

All right.

See you later,

Everybody.

This podcast is presented by New Shore Productions,

Executive producers Glen Ambrose,

Benjamin Barber,

And David DeAngelis.

Reviews

Really enjoyed listening! Thanks 🙏🏼

Ben&Glenn..raw viewpoints- if western religions reform to eliminate exclusionary violent political-numbers based dogma for self realization - then there's more Love and less dogma

This podcast I do have bookmarked. It helps me keep an open mind on all views. All your podcasts are wonderful. I love how the two of you work off each other. With the leading questions. You are both very knowledgeable. Thank you for having these podcasts available.

Another thought provoking podcast. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and your beliefs🙏🏻

Good topic, my problem is feeling like I am abandoning the traditions and family upbringing for a spirituality and belief system I can really believe in 100% and benefit from with no doubt or skepticism ever.