Co-parenting

In this solo episode, I begin with some basic dynamics of co-parenting and lean into the more intense difficult scenarios as the podcast goes on. Here we discuss tools and tips to stay conscious and present even when being faced with some of the tougher choices made while co-parenting.

Transcript

Welcome to Life,

Lessons and Laughter with your host,

Glenn Ambrose.

Hey everybody,

Welcome to the show.

So lately I've been getting some co-parenting questions,

Situations arising around me,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

So I figured I would do a podcast on co-parenting.

I may have done one before.

I know I've done some parenting ones and some kids ones,

You know,

About children,

But this one,

I guess it's going to be,

Well,

We'll see,

But I think it's going to be really about usually,

Co-parenting can be difficult.

So I'm obviously going to lean into the difficulty aspect of it.

If co-parenting is easy,

Then you've got a good scenario.

You don't really need my help.

So of course I'm going to get into the difficult aspects of it.

But you know,

To begin with,

Let's touch on that,

You know,

The scenarios that are good.

If the scenario is good where you're co-parenting and,

And by good,

I mean not bad because it like it really seems everything is perspective,

Right?

So there are,

Of course,

Some people that are in good co-parenting relationships where they can co-parent very well,

And they're aware of that,

That it's,

That they're in a good scenario and that they're cooperating well and doing well as a co-parenting unit.

And those people really don't need my help,

You know,

That like not only are you doing it well,

But you're aware that you're doing it well.

And then there's another group of people that are actually doing really well,

But they don't know that they're doing well.

And these people really,

It's,

I find it very important for them to slow down and really assess what's going on in your co-parenting situation.

Because if you wrap your brain around the possibilities of what it could be and understand a reality of how good you have it,

If you understand that,

It can make it 10 times better.

Because if you don't understand how good you have it and you actually have it pretty good,

Most likely you're going to sabotage it and it's going to get worse.

So like you have to be grateful for something to keep it.

So if it's not that bad,

Or if it just irks you every once in a while,

Pump the brakes and slow down and look at this and see how good you have it.

Because not that bad is probably amazing compared to the alternative.

And not that bad in most situations is pretty much close to as good as you're going to get.

Unless you continue feeding it,

Then it can continue getting better.

But not that bad is usually very close to successful.

And the reason I say that is like,

If you talk to most couples that are together,

Parenting,

You know,

They are still in a marriage or still in a committed partnership,

They're still together,

And they are parenting together,

There is going to be problems,

There's going to be disagreements,

There's two people with different perspectives.

And even if they think they're on the same page with most things,

There's going to be disconnections here and there.

There's going to be times when you think the situation should be handled differently than your spouse or your partner.

That's just parenting.

And sometimes when people have it fairly good,

They hyper focus on those problems.

Oh,

Well,

We disagreed with this,

We disagreed with that.

It's like,

That's going to happen.

You can't avoid that.

For the most part,

You're going to have disagreements with how to raise your children,

Even if,

Like I said,

You think you're on the same page.

So if it's not that bad,

And it's an occasional disagreement,

Count your blessings.

Because when it goes bad,

It goes really bad.

You know,

So,

You know,

I think,

And like I said,

If you're doing pretty well,

If you feed it,

Like,

If you're doing pretty well,

And you go to your,

You know,

Well,

I mean,

It's funny,

I'm divorced.

So my mind and a lot of my clients are so my mind when I talk about this,

Goes the kind of worst case scenario with divorced people or separated people that are no longer together.

And I usually address co parenting like that.

That's usually the most extreme difficult situations.

But I,

You know,

I want to touch on as many aspects of this as I can.

So this type of situation that I'm talking about now,

Whether you're together,

Or whether you're separated,

It doesn't really matter.

Feed the good,

Feed the good,

You know,

And and what I mean by that is,

You know,

You can one count your blessings,

Be grateful yourself.

But to talk to the person that you're co parenting with and be like,

You know what,

Hey,

I know I know that we disagree sometimes I know that we have some problems and you know,

Hopefully we'll continue working on those things and getting better and better.

But I mean,

We're really doing well.

We're doing well.

Some people are at each other's throats all the time.

And we're doing pretty well.

So you know,

I just want to say thank you,

Like feed that that's that's what feeds good relationships.

If they're,

You know,

I mean,

If they're dysfunctional,

Then you shouldn't go say that.

But I mean,

If most of it is good,

Feed that good,

You know,

It's positive reinforcement for a positive job.

It's like,

It gives momentum to it.

And it gives people like hearing good things.

So it gives them kind of a reason to continue trying to work through things.

If you don't do things like that,

And you just harp on the one problem,

Or the two problems or the few problems,

You know,

Then it's like,

You know,

Then half the time,

The other side or you yourself is like,

Why do I keep trying,

Like,

We're never going to get it right.

And then you get this defeatist attitude,

And then the effort stops,

And then things get worse,

You know.

So whether you're together or whether you're apart,

Really look,

If it's not that bad,

Feed the positive,

Starve the negative,

And count your blessings.

Because like I said,

When it goes bad,

This can be one of the most difficult things that you'll ever experience in your life.

I know it was for me.

So I guess to kind of kick off,

As I go into the more dysfunctional areas,

Which of course require the most help.

One thing I want to,

Well,

I guess there's two little pieces.

One,

You can't parent from guilt.

So this is about,

You know,

All different situations.

You can use this in any scenario.

So a lot of times when people separate,

They're like,

Oh,

My God,

How's it going to affect the child?

Oh,

My God,

It's so,

You know,

Oh,

They don't have two parents in the house,

Oh,

No,

And all this stuff,

And they stop parenting from guilt.

You know,

That was the advice that I got very early on,

Because,

You know,

My son was like two and a half years old,

Something thereabouts when I got sober.

So you know,

When you're an alcoholic,

And then all of a sudden you sober up,

And you're going to go be a parent,

There's guilt,

You know,

There's guilt,

Because of course there's going to be guilt.

You know,

For almost two years of his life,

I was trying to get,

Well,

Trying to get sober,

Caught up in addiction,

Spinning around.

I wasn't there for him on a consistent basis,

You know.

I mean,

When he was a baby,

I was for like the first nine months,

You know.

I mean,

You know,

I was in the house,

I took care of him,

You know,

Five,

Six days a week alone.

So,

You know,

I mean,

I had that bonding time with him,

And I did try to be a parent back then,

But I mean,

That was a mess,

And I didn't know how to do it,

And so that wasn't,

You know,

I don't look back on that and think I knocked it out of the park.

I was present,

But,

Or I was there,

I wasn't really present.

And then I spiraled for two years before I get my stuff together.

So yeah,

There's guilt.

So I had to work through that,

Because if you have guilt down at the bottom,

It's going to,

It's going to drive your decision making.

So there's going to be these times,

You have to be consistent as a parent,

And there's going to be these times when either the kid plays on your emotions,

Because kids can be manipulative when they're trying to figure out how to get what they want as they grow,

Or that guilt just creeps up,

And you just let things slide when you should be more consistent with them.

So,

And that's going to happen more and more and more if you're parenting from guilt.

So if you have guilt for separating or guilt for anything,

When it comes to parenting,

You need to work through that,

Okay?

The other thing I want to touch on is we have to let go of what we think a parent should be.

We have to let go of what we think co-parenting will look like.

We have to let go of what we think being a good father is.

We have to let go of what we think being a good mother is,

Because what we think is determined by social standards,

Things we saw on TV,

Things our own parents did,

Things we saw other parents doing,

We absorb that,

And just like everything in life,

We create a perception around it,

And we stick it in a box,

And it's unconscious,

And we don't even know it's there,

But we all have an idea of what we think a good parent is,

And we tend to try to live up to that,

And that's where I made the most mistakes.

And it's not because I came from a good family,

And there's a lot of things I wanted to emulate that my father did,

Because I'm a father,

But I can also draw from what my mother did.

So there was things that I wanted to keep that they did,

But there was other things that I wanted to let go of what they did,

And so I need to be conscious of that,

And I need to look into these things,

Because,

You know,

What we usually do is we don't look into them,

Right?

We go,

Oh,

Well,

My father was this,

And look,

I turned out wonderful.

So many people say that,

And I'm like,

Ah,

Like,

Really?

You turned out that good?

You kind of seem like a mess.

But a lot of people are like,

No,

My father did this,

And you know,

This is why I'm going to do it.

Like,

That's not a good reason.

That's not a good reason.

You have to look at it,

Go deeper,

And be like,

Did this actually work?

Why did it work?

And understand why it worked if it did,

And then you can keep it.

But don't,

Like,

My parents did this to me,

And I turned out good.

That's not a good reason,

Because your parents did about 6 billion different things to you,

Like in a parenting capacity.

Not every one of them was good.

So you need to go deeper and discern which ones you're going to keep and which ones you're going to let go of.

So you have to let go of this preconceived notion that your unconscious has built up as an egoic identity of what a parent is.

You have to let that go.

Drop into the present.

So yes,

Look into the different things that you want to keep,

The different things you want to let go.

But at the end of the day,

You're not trying to create another replacement,

What a father is.

So I'm saying you have one unconsciously.

You don't need to build a new one.

I mean,

It's helpful to bring some consciousness to it,

To look at these things,

But you don't need to necessarily build a new one.

You probably will to some degree,

Hopefully a healthier one.

Really what it is,

It's not about knowing what you're going to do in the future because everything's different.

So there isn't a perfect parent identity that you need to live up to.

What it is,

Is it's about letting go of parental identities and dropping into the present moment when a situation arises and doing the best you can spontaneously.

And I mean,

Sometimes there's other situations where you have a little bit more time to think.

Sometimes it's spontaneous.

Sometimes you can just center yourself,

Think about it and then address it the next day or that night.

But the point is,

Is to drop into this present moment,

Center yourself and open your heart and try to discern what you should be doing in that situation uniquely for your child and unique to that situation because it's always different.

That's when I had the best parenting moments was when I organically let it come through as opposed to mentally thinking what I'm supposed to be doing.

When I'm mentally thinking what I'm supposed to be doing or I'm relying on my past of my preconditioned idea of what a father was,

That's where I made all the mistakes.

So yeah,

Those were the two things I wanted to touch on as far as general parenting.

And then moving into the main topic,

Which is co-parenting,

Especially in difficult situations.

I went through it,

Man.

I went through it for many years.

I was in family court probably an average of twice a year for,

I don't know,

14 years.

It was nothing ever easy about co-parenting with my ex.

It wasn't.

She swore that she would hate me until the day I died and she's living right up to it.

So every single possible turn to make something difficult for me,

It was taken.

And many times they were even fabricated.

So I get it.

And when I was going through most of this,

The first 10 or 12 years,

I had no rights.

The court system can be a little bit tricky.

And when I got divorced,

They said that they were going to basically put the custody decision on hold until I got from Florida up to Rhode Island.

And what they did is they actually gave my ex full custody.

So I had none.

So I was navigating this with zero rights for 10 years,

Which was difficult.

That's why I was in court all the time.

Because if I wanted to take my son to visit my parents two hours away in a different state,

I needed to go to court and get permission because it wasn't going to happen otherwise.

The answer was always no.

So every little thing I needed to do,

I needed to go to court and I couldn't afford a lawyer most of the time.

So I was doing it myself,

Which the court hates.

So I was getting my ass handed to me and chewed out by judges and everything else because I actually made them do their job,

Which was come to judgments,

Which it's ironic.

But in a family court system,

That's exactly what a judge does.

Everything to avoid is making judgments.

They do not like making judgments because then their name is put on the line and their decision is put on the line and then people can attack them from the outside.

So they do everything in their power,

Bring in people to negotiate,

Just yell at you and throw you out.

They'll do anything to not have to come to a conclusion,

To not put their neck on the line and try to come to make a judgment,

Have the lawyers talk it out forever.

So when I walk in without a lawyer,

They're like,

Oh my God,

This guy doesn't know things.

We're going to have to explain things to him.

This is a big pain in my ass,

Makes my job more difficult.

So they would attack me.

I mean,

I literally got chewed out for absolutely nothing.

One day I just said,

They had my ex's lawyer open.

I don't know why,

I don't know.

It was my case,

But they had them open because she had a lawyer,

I guess.

He attacked me in about five or six different ways that had nothing to do with why we're there.

And then they said,

Okay,

What do you have to say?

And I said,

Well,

Do you want me to address the overall picture why we're here or do you want me to address the five different things that he said attacking me one at a time?

And the judge,

That was it.

That was all I asked.

The judge ripped me a new one and threw us out,

Well,

Because I didn't have a lawyer.

So it was tough,

Man.

And that's the court angle.

And the home angle was worse.

I mean,

Sometimes I would have,

I'd go to court and it's like,

Okay,

I can take my son to my parents a couple hours away.

I go to pick him up.

She won't let him out of the house.

No,

He's not going.

Police can't do anything.

They can go write it down and say,

Yes,

We went there,

But she won't let him out.

But then you miss Thanksgiving,

Right?

It's over.

That day is over.

So then you have to go to court again.

It's like this.

I went through all that stuff and it's difficult.

It's hard,

But I don't give up well.

And my son was my main priority.

I just always knew that.

So I just,

I went through this for years and years and years and years.

So I have tons of experience and I didn't know what I was doing.

I didn't have somebody to talk it through.

So I just,

You know,

I would get so overwhelmed and so frustrated.

And then it always came back to a basic choice.

It was,

Okay,

Do you want to turn into old Glenn,

Dysfunctional,

Alcoholic,

Not necessarily drinking,

But alcoholic behaviors,

Negative behavior?

Like what do I want to go do the things I was capable of before I got sober and woke up spiritually?

Do I want to go back to that old type of lifestyle and start attacking back and manipulating and lying and,

And,

And trying to win that way for what I perceived as the benefit of my son,

Or do I want to live by spiritual principles?

That's what it always came down to.

And every time I could see that going back to living a dysfunctional life and,

And doing dysfunctional things was just going to lead to me not loving myself and not being able to look my son in the eye and,

You know,

Self-hatred and,

And this type of stuff,

Like you can't outrun yourself.

And I knew that because I had tried before.

So I wasn't going to resort to the negative behaviors to try to get what I thought was important.

I,

I couldn't do that because then I knew that I would be a bad person and I wouldn't love myself.

And then who knows where that spiral ends.

Like I said,

I had lived that before and I didn't want to go back to that.

So I always chose the spiritual principles.

I always chose to tell the truth,

Even when it looked like I was lying.

I mean,

Even when it looked like I was going to lose,

If I told the truth,

I told the truth anyway.

I always just depended on spiritual principles.

And I'm happy to say in hindsight,

Now that my son's almost 23 now,

It worked out amazingly well.

You know,

He has a father that he has always respected and loved and was always his safe haven.

And he could trust my energy and he could come over and be in a safe haven.

And,

You know,

When he was 12,

He chose to come live with me.

And he's living here in the Dominican Republic with me.

So,

You know,

It's it works out well living by spiritual principles.

So specifically with the co-parenting.

As a general rule,

It's all about boundaries.

Live,

You know,

Live two things,

Living by spiritual principles,

You cannot lie,

Manipulate.

To see,

We love our children so much that we it's possible to rationalize in your brain that the end justifies the means so I can lie,

Cheat,

Steal,

Manipulate because the other parent is lying,

Cheating,

Manipulating to get what they want.

And if they end up with the other parent,

Then it's going to be horrible.

Or if they get the other parent to hate me,

Then it's going to be horrible.

So I'm going to lie,

Manipulate and cheat and just to just to protect my child because I love them so much.

It doesn't work.

It doesn't work.

All it makes you is a liar and a cheater and a manipulator.

That's all it does.

And your child can feel that.

So do not flush your principles.

To try to save your child because you're not going to do it.

That they see you,

They can feel you lying,

They can feel your anger,

Your rage,

Your just and it repels them and they love the other parent.

Children love both parents,

They just do.

It's innate.

So when you're bashing the other parent or fighting with them all the time,

All it does is it confuses them.

They're sitting there going like I but I love them.

They're a jerk.

They lot.

But I love them.

I don't know what to do about this.

I'm a little kid and I just love them.

Like,

How do you like it?

You know,

You know,

If somebody everybody understands this even on an adult level and it's more intense as a child on an adult level,

Like,

You know,

You ever get pissed off that somebody you love,

Like could be your spouse,

It could be your brother or sister or your parent,

And you might be just venting and bitching about them.

And then all of a sudden somebody says something negative about them that kind of crosses the line.

Yeah,

They really are a jerk.

And you're like,

Well,

Whoa,

Whoa,

Whoa,

Wait a minute,

You know.

That's that's my loved one.

I mean,

Don't call him a jerk.

You know,

We're just having a disagreement.

See,

It's that's natural.

It's natural for us to defend people we love and to put a child in that situation is extremely detrimental.

So,

You know,

We have to choose spiritual principles,

Be the quality of time you have is more important than the quantity.

The love you share with that child is more important than looking right in an argument.

It's it's just that's the spiritual principles,

You just got to be loved and they will that will attract the child,

The child will want to be around somebody who feels loving.

They don't give a crap if you're right or if you're wrong.

They don't care because it's they just want love.

That's it.

So choose the loving way.

So,

You know,

When it comes to dealing with somebody,

You know that you just you have control over you,

So you just have to be you,

You have to be the best version of you that can be.

And trust me,

It plays out every time in the long run.

If you are a loving,

Kind person towards your child,

It's going to pay off in the long run.

And it'll probably pay off in the short term,

Too.

Dealing with a co-parent,

That's really difficult.

You know,

When I'm talking fighting all the time,

Complete disrespect,

Attacking court,

You name it,

It can go as minimal as or as extreme as you want.

If there is just a lack of respect and attack,

Attacking coming with a negative behavior is coming all the time.

Then what you need to do is set boundaries.

And again,

This is we can't do it all at once.

Set boundaries.

And again,

This is we have to let go of what we think co-parenting should be.

People have this idea that they try to hold on to.

We're supposed to talk all the time and work through things.

It's like it's just simply not possible with many,

Many,

Many people.

So stop trying to make that possible.

It's not going to work like if every time you say something,

They attack you.

You're not going to work through that.

You're like you're not going to sit there and say,

Hey,

This isn't good for your child,

So please stop doing that.

And then they're going to go,

Oh,

Yeah,

Thank you for pointing that out.

And then all of a sudden turn into this wonderful being.

It's not going to happen.

That never happens.

This is like,

You know,

The Democrats and Republicans have been arguing for hundreds of years.

Have has their relationship gotten better?

Have they learned to work together?

No,

It's worse and worse and worse and worse.

The division separates like it's not going to magically get better.

And it's not because they don't understand.

That like what you're trying to say,

And if if you only phrase it the right way,

Then they'll understand and then they'll do what you think that they should do.

All relationships.

Require respect,

They require respect as a foundation.

OK,

So if there isn't respect,

Then you can't have a healthy relationship,

You can't.

I don't care what you do.

I don't care what conversations you have.

I don't care what you attempt.

I don't care what pie in the sky illusionary world you're living in.

You're not going to have a healthy relationship if there isn't respect between two people.

And that goes in friendships.

It goes in family.

It goes in spouses.

It goes in partners.

It goes in work relationship,

Anything.

You're not going to have a good one if there's no respect.

So you have to get a level of respect.

And when you let go,

Like people are like,

Oh,

We're supposed to be co-parenting and we love this child.

So if we come together,

Then that child will have a good experience.

Then they'll come into a healthy experience.

So they live and die trying to create this this loving utopian code like co-parenting relationship.

And in many,

Many situations,

If they're dysfunctional and there's no respect,

That's simply not possible.

It's not possible.

So stop trying to achieve it.

Set a ground,

A foundation of respect and safety first.

So like when people go to counseling,

Right,

When they go to therapy,

Like one of the ground rule things,

If they're a good therapist,

Is they're going to create a safe space for you guys to talk through things.

OK,

That like that's a foundation.

You can't accomplish anything until you have that.

Until the going to the counseling or the therapy sessions are a safe space where both people can actually be heard until that's accomplished,

Nothing is going to be worked through.

So it's similar with this,

There needs to be a baseline where the fighting is stopped,

Where the attacking stop,

Where you have a safe space from there,

Then maybe you can build something into a co-parenting situation.

But what you need to do is if you're up here and it's all dysfunctional,

You have to work your way down by setting boundaries until you find the safe space.

So the boundaries might be like,

OK,

Every time we talk,

We argue,

So let's just communicate through text or writing.

You know,

You know,

When when I come to pick up the kid,

Let's just have them go outside to the car so we don't really have to interact.

Fine,

Whatever,

Set these boundaries in place and the boundaries are,

You know,

Bound that,

You know,

People have to slow down and understand boundaries.

I've said this,

I can't even count how many times I've said this,

And I still hear people and I know not everybody in the world listens to my podcast,

But go listen to Boundaries podcast.

Boundaries are imperative in this world,

Especially where we are changing everything in society,

Everything in society is changing and we need boundaries in just about every area of our lives.

So.

To we need to understand boundaries and people go,

Oh,

I tried to set some boundaries,

It didn't work.

No,

You didn't.

That's not a boundary.

Boundaries don't have an option to work or not work.

They work 100% of the time,

100% of the time boundaries work,

Not 99,

100% of the time boundaries work.

Why do they work?

Because they do not require the agreement of the other side.

That's not a boundary.

A boundary isn't saying,

Hey,

Could we not argue anymore?

Because it's bothering the child and then the child and,

And they go,

Yeah,

Okay.

And then next time you see them,

You argue,

Oh,

See,

I tried to set a boundary and they just walked all over it.

That's not a boundary.

That's a suggestion.

That's a comment.

Okay.

A boundary has consequences.

Now you can give a suggestion first before you set a boundary.

So you don't look all militant and stuff.

You can try to be courteous and be like,

Hey,

Could,

Could we,

You know,

Let,

Let's not argue in front of the kid.

If we have something to talk about,

Let's just talk about it.

What,

You know,

When they're not here,

We'll email about it or something like that,

Or we'll plan a phone call and get on it.

Whatever,

You know,

We'll try.

Let's just say that's your issue at the moment.

And then you try that and they start something then.

Okay.

Well then now it's boundary time.

So,

So then it's like,

Okay,

You know what?

Um,

You know,

I,

I talked to you about,

You know,

Not arguing in front of the kid,

It obviously didn't work,

Um,

Because we're arguing in front of the kid again.

So,

Um,

What I'm going to do is I'm just going to send the kid out,

Um,

When you come to pick them up,

You know,

Or I'll leave the front door open and,

You know,

Just honk when you get here and I'll,

I'll head out or shoot me a text when you're five minutes away or whatever,

You know,

And if they don't,

Whatever,

You keep the door locked until,

Until they get there and then you unlock the door and leave the room.

But you,

You know,

You can set boundaries by going,

Okay.

Um,

Um,

Let's just not interact.

I think it's better for now.

If we just don't interact,

Oh,

Well,

What the heck?

We can't be in the same room.

No,

It's just not working.

So,

Uh,

I'll,

I'll just be in the other room when you come pick them up or,

You know,

Whatever the boundary is,

It doesn't require their agreement.

You just do it.

And if that doesn't work,

You just do something else.

You get,

See the boundaries.

Like,

You know,

I,

I believe that,

That,

Um,

I believe in trying to be reasonable.

Okay.

Believe it or not.

I'm very strict with my boundaries,

But like,

I don't run around setting boundaries for every little thing.

That's,

That's the ego.

It goes way too far in a direction.

So try things just don't be attached if they're going to work out or whether they're not going to work out.

Like,

So even if,

Like,

As you're learning to set a boundary,

If your boundary doesn't work,

All that means is that like,

You need to set a firmer boundary or that one wasn't an actual boundary.

So like,

You know,

You can try suggestions at first.

So I guess,

You know,

Like if,

If there is,

I'm going to try to,

You know,

Because I just said boundaries work a hundred percent of the time,

Real boundaries do work a hundred percent of the time,

Right.

They,

They will work a hundred percent of the time,

But there is a little space sometimes before you have to set boundaries.

And this is called being reasonable.

This is called trying to work with other people.

This is called the middle ground,

Which we're always looking for over here,

Way on the left,

You get walked on all the time and you don't set any boundaries and nothing ever gets better.

And people just walk on you way on the right is when you're setting really strict boundaries that nobody can cross.

And they're,

They're kind of militant,

Quite frankly.

And,

And like,

What we're looking for is the middle ground always start in the middle ground and then will you have to get militant sometimes?

Yeah.

Depending on the situation you may,

But sometimes if you do like a firm recommendation that might work.

So try that first.

This isn't a sprint.

It's a marathon.

I understand you're probably tired of dealing with this stuff,

But you got to try to give the impression of being reasonable and calm throughout this process.

So try being like,

Even ask them what they think.

Hey,

What do you think?

You know,

We argue,

I don't think that's good to do in front of the kid.

You know,

I,

I'm assuming you probably agree.

Is there any way that like,

Do you have any suggestions on how we could avoid that?

What do you think?

How do you think we could avoid arguing in front of the child?

See,

It's not about being right or wrong.

It's just about what's doing right for the child.

So who gives a crap if they go,

Well,

You seem to get irritated whenever you see me.

Um,

So like,

Why don't you go in another room when I come pick them up?

Now,

Most people in that situation go,

It's not me that gets irritated.

It's you that gets irritated and they want to be right.

And that's why the arguing continues.

Right.

It's not about that.

It's not about being right.

It's not about being wrong.

Who cares?

Of course,

Your perspective,

You think you're right.

And of course they think they're,

That they're right.

It's not about that.

It's about handling a situation appropriately for your child.

That's what it's about.

So who cares if they think that you're,

Oh,

You think you blamed me?

Who cares?

You're,

You're not with them anymore.

Of course,

They're going to blame you.

That's why you're having problems.

Co-parenting in the first place,

Because they blame you for stuff.

Like,

So let go of,

Of the,

The little battles to win the war,

You know?

So you can try some suggestions first.

If the suggestions don't work,

They have to get more and more militant,

More and more strict,

Less and less wiggle ground until they're an actual firm boundary.

So like when we were,

When we were going to court,

When my son moved in with me,

That was,

I mean,

He moved in with me the first day,

But then there was a year and a half to two years worth of court battles where my ex was fighting that decision.

So in which we won,

Fortunately during that time,

You know,

Our,

Our,

Our interactions were very,

Um,

Monitored.

They sent us to,

To,

Uh,

Co-parenting therapy,

Which was an absolute joke.

She just sat there and screamed at me the whole time.

And I used to look at the therapist and go,

You,

You're going to,

You're going to step in here.

No,

You guys got to learn to work it out like that.

Well,

We haven't in 12 years.

I don't know why you think we're going to suddenly now.

So after,

And I told him,

You know,

I said,

You know,

Listen,

If,

If after four or five sessions or something,

I was like,

I'm not just going to come in here and get yelled at,

I'm not going to do it.

So,

You know,

You either step in and try to create safe space where we can actually talk through things or I'm not coming back.

So eventually after about four or five,

Um,

I just was like,

She's screaming at me and I'm like,

No,

You're not going to do anything.

You're just going to let this go.

And she's still screaming the whole time.

And I'm just,

I turned my chair and was looking at the therapist,

Nothing.

Okay,

Well,

I'm not going to sit here and just get mentally,

Emotionally abused because you think that this is helpful for some reason.

So,

And this was court ordered and I just got up and walked out because I'm not,

You know,

Most people will stay in that situation because they say it's court ordered.

I don't give a crap if it's court ordered.

They can't court order you to be mentally and emotionally abused.

I mean,

They can try,

But then you go in there and that's what you have a lawyer for.

I had a lawyer for this one,

You know,

Um,

But when I stopped going,

They didn't even attempt it.

They didn't,

They were like,

Oh,

That didn't work.

I don't even know if I got brought up in court that I stopped going,

I don't know,

Uh,

That I walked out,

But I wasn't going to,

That's not allowed.

I am not allowed.

I do not allow myself to sit there and get screamed at in any situation.

So I will get myself out of it if I need to.

Um,

That's a boundary.

It wasn't dependent on what the court said.

The court didn't have to agree with me.

It wasn't dependent on what the therapist said.

Didn't have to agree.

My ex doesn't have to agree.

I don't give a crap.

That's a boundary.

If you don't stop yelling,

I'm walking out and I got up and walked out.

That's a boundary.

I will not be treated this way.

And I leave,

You know,

It's a boundary because nobody can do anything to stop me.

When we went to court,

Um,

You know,

Like she was,

She got up earlier than I did.

So,

You know,

When my son was living with me,

She started calling at like seven o'clock in the morning,

Um,

And waking me up.

And I tried to leave my phone on in case of emergencies,

But you know,

She was,

So I asked her,

Listen,

Please,

You know,

And she would just call up to leave a message yelling at me at seven in the morning.

So I said,

Listen,

Uh,

Unless it's something about our son that needs to be addressed right then,

Please don't call me before eight 30 or whenever the heck I get up.

And the next day she just called again.

So I said,

Okay,

If you do it again,

I'm just going to block your number.

And she did it the next day and I blocked her number.

And that's a boundary.

I wasn't asking for her agreement.

I said,

If you do this,

This is what's going to happen.

She did it.

And that's what I did.

So they went to court,

We went to court.

And,

Uh,

To me,

This is a good example of a boundary.

And they said,

Um,

You know,

She said in court or her lawyer,

I don't remember said,

Um,

You know,

Glenn blocked her phone number.

Um,

So now she has no way of getting in touch with her child and,

Um,

Checking on her child.

And,

Um,

So the,

So the judge looks at me and says,

Well,

That can't be right.

You surely didn't block her number and prevent her from checking on her child.

Did you?

I said,

Yes,

I did.

Because I have the,

I have the messages right here.

If you'd like to listen to them,

She just calls me up every morning,

Screaming at me.

And I told her,

If you continue doing this,

I'm going to block your phone number.

And she just continued doing it.

I'm,

I said,

So I'm sure your honor,

That you would not dictate that I must be emotionally and mentally abused by law.

I mean,

Of course you would not say that I legally have to allow her to abuse me.

So since I know you wouldn't say that,

I'm open to suggestions.

Just let me know what you'd like me to do.

I'd be happy to do it.

And the judge was like,

Oh crap.

Cause now she had to work.

She had to use her brain and come up with some sort of solution,

Which they're not used to having to do.

So like,

Oh,

Um,

Well,

What about email?

I said,

Email's fine.

And my ex said,

No,

I don't have an email,

Which was BS because she was emailing the guardian ad litem appointed to the case daily.

But she didn't want a paper trail.

She wanted to be able to attack me without the paper trail.

So,

Well,

That's my guess,

But she didn't want to do email.

So the judge was thinking for a minute and she's like,

Well,

What about snail mail?

What about like just letters?

I said,

Fine with me.

I'll do whatever.

You know,

As long as I don't need to get yelled at I'm open to anything.

So she was like,

Can you do,

Can you write?

I guess so.

Is there any reason why you can't?

No.

Okay.

Well then that's what you guys are doing.

You guys have to write letters.

And it was beautiful because then the,

The,

See,

This is,

This is my point.

Most people sit around acting like,

Oh no,

I can't even have a reasonable conversation with my co-parent.

This is so horrible.

They're such a jerk.

This is a nightmare.

Oh my,

My poor child.

They,

They,

Oh no.

Oh no.

They take this as a loss.

No,

That's a win.

It's a win.

If you have to interact with somebody that you don't get along with and you guys get mandated by law to only communicate through letters,

That's a good thing.

Why?

Because then you don't have to constantly interact with them,

Which when you interact with them,

It doesn't go well.

So what you want to do is minimize interacting with them.

Snail mail is a great way to minimize interacting with them.

So I was ecstatic.

I wasn't sitting there going,

Oh no,

I didn't fit into my paradigm of what a perfect co-parenting relationship is supposed to be.

My son's going to suffer.

Oh no.

I was like less interaction with her means less problems,

Less arguments,

Less yelling.

Yippee ki yay.

Where do I sign?

This is wonderful.

So,

You know,

Slow down and think about that for a minute.

Seriously,

This is a major shift in perspective that we need to get.

This is a big part of what I'm talking about in this podcast.

We look,

We have this precondition thing of what we're trying to achieve and then we punish ourselves and get upset every time we don't achieve it.

When victory is right in front of us and we don't even see it for what it is.

If you have a relationship with somebody that you do not get along with and that constantly leads,

Leads to conflict,

Then minimize interacting with them.

Minimize conflict.

Do whatever it takes to stop the conflict.

What it looks like to your child is that dad's happier.

Mom's happier.

Unless one of them just is going to be miserable.

You know,

You can't control that.

If the other party is going to be miserable,

You have no control over what they do in their world.

So let it go.

All you can control is what you can control.

What goes on in your world.

So if there's less conflict in your world and you're happier,

That's a better scenario.

And trust me,

If the other parent is miserable,

Your child is going to,

As they get older,

They're going to navigate over towards you.

They're going,

You know,

They can form unhealthy attachments and codependent relationships with the other parent.

That sometimes that stuff happens and all that stuff,

But you can't control that.

That's your child's journey.

You know,

We have to remember our child,

Our children are on their own journeys,

Just like we're on our journey.

This is something I needed to swallow deeply because I saw my son getting emotionally and mentally abused on a regular basis.

And there was nothing I could do to stop it for 10 years,

You know,

And it was heartbreaking and it was difficult.

And I had to understand that he's in that situation because he has something to learn.

You know,

He's got soul contracts or whatever you want to say.

And I,

If there's nothing I can do to stop it and I've tried everything I can,

Then I have to accept it and just understand that he's got his own lessons to learn in this lifetime.

We think we're supposed to shelter our children from all emotionally difficult situations.

And we literally cannot,

What all we can do is be a safe space for them.

All we can do is feed them self love.

And all we can do is,

You know,

Just support them as they learn to navigate their own lessons.

And sometimes that's what the other parent,

The more they feed their self love,

The less crap they're going to put up with from their parent or anybody else might take them a while to learn that.

But the,

You know,

Like I said,

It's what we're not,

That's another thing of letting go of what you think you're supposed to do as a co-parent.

You're not supposed to save your child from experiencing any emotionally difficult things you can't.

And most people are trying to do that.

That's their,

Like their main goal.

I want my child to experience,

Not experience emotional difficulty.

Of course,

We're not going to push them into emotional difficulty.

Of course,

We're going to avoid like,

Of course,

I'm going to not argue in front of my kid.

If I can help it.

Sure.

I mean,

If I can help it,

But if there are certain situations like them being with another parent,

That's dysfunctional and it's there,

I have no control over that.

I have no control over what the other parent does in their house or what relationship those two have.

So I have to stop trying to control it and just do what I'm in control of.

Feed the love,

Feed the self-love,

Give them a safe space,

Be the stable one.

They'll turn towards you.

They'll love you.

They'll respect you.

Even if they pull away from you every once in a while,

Ultimately they will choose to have a good relationship with you,

Regardless of what they choose with that other person.

So be clear on what you're trying to achieve.

You're trying to achieve not arguing.

You're trying to achieve less conflict,

Period.

You're not trying to achieve everybody agreeing that you're right.

You're not trying to win a battle with the ex because you probably never will.

So take the victories,

You know,

And,

And view like,

Okay,

We can only text or,

You know,

They have this great texting app now that goes through the court.

So the court,

You know,

Sees all the,

All the texts and how you communicate.

That's a great tool.

And people like,

I've literally had people be like,

Oh my God,

The only way we can communicate is through this court freaking app.

It's horrible.

Like,

What do you mean?

It's horrible.

That's beautiful.

You can,

You like,

That means every time your ex texts you,

They have to think that the court is going to see what that,

What they have to text.

So that means they're going to behave themselves.

It's wonderful.

This is a beautiful tool and people view it as like failure.

It's like,

No,

No,

No,

No.

That's success.

That's success.

So just,

I'm going to wrap up,

You know,

I probably talk like this on this subject forever,

But set,

You know,

It doesn't matter if you start with,

You know,

Go through the steps and get increasingly tight on,

On the boundaries that you set.

And if you guys get to the point where you can only communicate through letter,

Cool,

Cool.

That's it.

All I used to get,

Like,

You know,

Once,

Once my son was living with me and all the court stuff was done,

I used to get like a letter,

Um,

Like twice a year and it would have a child support check in it.

Now,

Like the,

The regular child support got withdrawn,

But there was some,

There was some soccer costs and stuff like that,

That she would have to send me a check for half of it.

And she would,

So when she had to send me a check for that stuff,

She,

The check would be inside and the letter would be in there.

And it would just be a letter telling me about how much of a horrible parent I was and what a loser I was and all this stuff.

And I would just,

I would read it.

Cause I got a kick out of it.

Usually I think maybe one,

I didn't,

I just threw in the trash,

But I would take the check out and I would read it and be like,

Oh yeah,

I'm a horrible parent.

Oh my God.

And like,

My son wouldn't even see her.

Like he refused to even go see her because she was so negative and screaming all the time.

So it's like,

I'm a negative parent,

But me and my son are here together having a good relationship and you haven't seen him in a year and a half.

And she's telling me how much of a horrible parent I am,

You know?

And I'd be like,

Okay.

And I giggle a little crumple it up,

Throw it in the trash and go cash your check.

It was beautiful,

Man.

I loved it.

So the more bound,

If you need to get to that level to where you guys can't even communicate and there's only,

You know,

Supervised pickups or whatever,

People think that those are failures.

No,

Those are wins.

Why?

Because it accomplishes the ultimate goal,

Which is less conflict.

So just stay focused on less conflict and set whatever boundaries you have to.

Just don't go crazy in the boundaries.

And you know,

Probably 75% of the time people don't have to get as strict as,

As I did.

It's not that necessary.

So start off simpler and get increase the intensity of the boundaries as necessary until you get to a plateau that works,

That's your safe space.

And they'll respect you just because they have to,

Because they have no other choice because the boundary is so thick and tight.

Cool.

Maybe someday it'll change down the road,

Depending on the circumstance.

Maybe it won't,

Whatever.

But that is what,

That's how you do it.

Boundaries get more and more strict,

More and more intense as they go until you hit a plateau where the arguing stops,

Whatever is necessary to accomplish that,

To have a peaceful existence.

That's what your main goal is.

Don't worry about what society thinks of it.

All right.

That'll do for now.

If you guys need any help with this,

Just reach out.

All right.

So yeah,

I think that's it.

All right.

Peace.

Good luck.