What Do You Really Want?

What does your life stand for? What do you really want? If the answer is freedom then what does that look like? Does the answer you come up with match your life, how you live your life? Is there something you’re holding onto that keeps you from truly realizing what it means to be free? These are potent questions. What happens in this particular exchange with Gangaji is different because it is the beginning and end of all conversations.

Transcript

There is a question you can ask and you can deeply examine it and ruthlessly,

Often painfully,

Tell the truth about it.

And that is,

What does my life stand for?

What is my life standing for?

What has it stood for?

What is the deepest call for my life to stand for?

Then all you have to do is really look very carefully,

Ruthlessly,

To see.

For over two decades,

There is one question that Gangaji asks over and over again.

She has asked this question to people all over the world.

What do you really want?

What do you really want?

If the answer is freedom,

Then what does that look like?

Does the answer you come up with match your life,

How you live your life?

This is a potent question,

And what happens in this particular exchange with Gangaji is different because it is the beginning and end of all conversations.

I'm Hillary Larson,

And this is a conversation with Gangaji.

I renamed this What Do You Really Want?

Rather than Finally Free.

Finally Free seemed like the wrong title.

It seemed a little in time,

Like that Who I Am got free rather than realizes itself to be free.

Yeah.

Finally free.

Oh,

Yeah.

What a setup that is.

Yeah,

I realized that right away.

Sounded good though.

I don't actually know where to start with this.

I don't want to be redundant,

But I feel like I'm more willing to step out these days and have a deeper conversation with you.

I was just saying to you earlier that I love bringing in other people's questions,

And I love the input from the Gangaji radio team.

I love all of that.

There's a way that I've really made an effort.

I'm straddling both sides of the fence.

It's like,

Oh,

I don't want to make this about me,

But at the same time,

Then it's not about inquiry because you don't have a live person sitting in front of you.

You have questions that you can't really delve into.

Yeah,

I felt that often when questions have come up can only be some kind of formula answer,

And that's not what we're about here.

Yeah.

So there was another thing I was thinking about with you is that,

And I have mentioned this before,

I think in one of our other episodes,

And I never get tired of talking about it frankly is what I've learned from you over these last few years is your impeccable capacity to be true to the teachings,

And that I've told people that if somebody said,

Hey,

You could have five million listeners to this podcast,

That if you could just tweak this one little thing,

You would say no.

And if somebody came and said,

I will give you,

The Gangaji Foundation,

A million dollars,

And if you could just tweak this one little thing,

Or we could do like add a little gimmick or gadget to what you do,

You would say no.

And that has been a huge teaching for me.

Good.

Good.

Yes,

Because really what we're about here is inquiry and telling the truth and awakening,

And so that has nothing to do with numbers of any kind.

It has to do with you.

It's so humbling to me because I can think of all the people that would be like,

Really?

Like how do I get five million listeners?

You know?

What do I need to do to do that?

And that you don't turn in that direction?

Yeah,

And really I'm not judging it either because if someone turned in that direction out of five million listeners,

Yeah,

It's very likely you get some people who you could really turn on to self-inquiry.

It's just,

It's not one of my temptations.

And you know,

So much of this is Papaji,

Of course,

But Papaji was a regular householder and he loved it when more and more people started coming to Satsang.

He had a great time and he did want it to spread,

But Papaji got it from Ramana,

And Ramana was very simple and happy to be simple.

So as an American,

I'm not trying to be Ramana or Papaji,

But I am also very aware of the lineage and to respect the lineage.

This is not my thing that I invented,

You know,

I'm going to save the world with.

This is coming from a direct lineage.

Yeah,

It's,

I just appreciate it so much.

Glad.

And so over time to everybody that's listened to you speak,

You,

The question that comes up is what do you really want?

And I've always been hesitant,

Honestly,

To sit in retreat and say,

What I really want is freedom because is it because I've heard that over and over again?

Is it because I've read that?

Is cause I,

I don't want to say what I really want because that doesn't really match what other people want.

And I feel like in the last few weeks have reached a new level with that question.

And I wanted to share it with you and with everybody listening.

And it's a hard inquiry for me because it's a relief to be able to look at what,

What do I really want and to tell the truth about that.

Because on a daily basis,

I could say what I want is freedom,

But in a daily basis,

There are countless ways where I want something more,

Whether it's to be liked or whether it's to be secure or whether it's to not lose something.

It happens all the time.

And so what happened was I wrote you a letter,

Um,

Barb,

The executive director a few weeks ago,

And I,

I said that I had what I was seeing that I was aware of for a long,

Long time years,

A lifetime is a way that I work really hard.

I work,

You know,

I'm a hard worker.

You know,

When I was a kid,

I worked at Wendy's and then I changed my uniform and then I worked at Baskin Robbins and,

And then I worked really hard in radio and then I worked really hard to get clean.

And then I worked really hard to overcome anxiety and,

And then I met you and there was a way I quit working in a way,

But there was still a deeper working.

So it was ironic to me alongside that was here I am with my teacher whose messages to stop and I'm actually staying busy working for the Gongaji Foundation.

So I don't have to stop.

And so I wrote you about that,

That I actually needed to face that demon and I did.

And what was beautiful about it is that I just sat in my living room and I,

I felt the momentum of a lifetime of just working really hard.

And,

And when I stopped,

It was like,

Wow,

Why didn't you do that a long time ago?

It was a relief and it was,

It wasn't like a thunderbolt,

But it was beautiful.

And,

And when you talk about rest and deep rest,

It was like,

Finally,

I'm so happy.

So happy.

This is,

It's rare because we're running from ourselves the whole time and running toward escape or relief rest,

But to stop and not go anywhere.

It's here.

Yeah,

You're here.

Rest is here.

Yeah,

And what happened was I,

Right after that,

I,

I still had an epiphany interview to do,

Which I didn't want to change because it took a year and a half to schedule this epiphany interview and I had to travel to do it.

And the person who was the subject is amazing,

An amazing story.

And I arrived at his home with his beautiful wife and I arrived in the evening.

So you know,

When you arrive in the evening someplace and you don't really know where you are,

And we had a great conversation that night and then I woke up the next morning,

They live on this beautiful piece of property and I woke up the next morning about six in the morning and I,

I looked out the window for the first time seeing like,

Well,

Where am I?

And this,

I didn't expect this to happen.

This feeling came over me of like,

You don't have to do one more thing to be fine.

Like,

Like you don't have to do one more thing.

And,

And then my life kind of flashed before me of all the ways I've worked so hard,

Just so hard.

And,

And it was like,

This vastness opened.

It was like so huge.

And the idea like,

Wow,

I don't have to read one more thing or I don't have to watch one more thing.

I'm just looking out the window.

And it's like,

I've had feelings like,

Oh,

I'm fine before,

But this was like different.

This is deeply fine.

Deeply fine.

And then in the vastness of it became the fear and the fear was a realization of what I have done to not go into that vastness.

And the vastness is like being,

I think I told you one time about this George Clooney movie with Sandra Bullock where he's flying off in space and then he cuts the tether.

That movie was like visceral for me when he just is floating off into like,

Who knows what.

And so that fear came up.

And when I looked deeper in that moment to the fear,

It was kind of an image of being at the deep end of a pool and holding on to just one last life preserver.

And the last life preserver was you.

And I was like,

If I let go of this life preserver,

I'm going to lose everything that I love.

Like my work and the friends I have and my relationship with you.

Like I just had it in my head like,

Oh,

You have to tell the truth about that thread of dependency.

Otherwise you're never going to be free.

And so I was willing to lose everything.

Like everything.

This,

Which is so important to me and everything I do that's related to the Gongji foundation,

It was just like,

Let go.

And then I don't know what that is going to mean.

Well,

What did it mean in that moment?

Because the losing everything has nothing to do with material things or work things or relationships.

It has to do with your internal relationship of what you think you need to be fine.

So in that moment,

Your willingness to let go,

What was your experience?

Beautiful.

And is that gone now?

And yet you're here in our relationship?

Yeah.

And I feel completely different in this relationship now.

And it's brought up the subject of everything.

It brought up everything we've talked about,

The willingness to lose and asking,

What do I really want when I say I want freedom,

Like seriously,

What do I want?

It brought up the subject of postponement of like,

This is not new information to me.

It was just something I didn't want to say out loud.

I didn't want to admit it.

Yes,

That's right.

Beautiful,

Hillary.

So you know,

You can't really be in relationship of any kind,

Including with yourself,

Until you're willing to lose it all.

Death of some kind,

Whether it's death into the cosmic nothingness or death in losing what you think your relationships are or your job or whatever.

Yeah.

I think it feels like I didn't know when we started this conversation.

I didn't know if it was our last conversation or actually an opening to a new conversation.

It's both,

Isn't it?

Both in birth.

I mean,

There they are.

It's the unknown.

You said I didn't know if it's the end of the conversation or the beginning.

That unknown is the key.

Yeah.

And really,

You can't lose that.

That's present every moment.

You may overlook it or run from it or whatever,

But the unknown is always here.

And have full ideas.

Yeah.

It's been so freeing.

In fact,

I wrote you,

I don't typically do this,

But I wrote you and said the next episode I want to do,

Now I'm laughing,

But is finally free.

And I appreciated that you didn't respond to that.

And I actually was talking to a friend about my experiences of,

You know,

Of looking out the window and being willing to tell myself the truth.

And I said that I want to do an episode with you called finally free.

And she's like,

Well,

What does that mean?

And the other thing that was now it seems obvious to me,

But it was great to be in a satsang with my good friend was the times that you've talked about being at the gate.

And I always felt like to me,

Just telling the truth about myself was the feast.

That feeling of like,

Oh,

I know I've told you just even sitting here,

I've told you something that was hard to face in myself.

And now I feel this spaciousness.

And I realized through the help of this exchange I had with my friend that I actually have just stepped foot into the feast.

Me too.

Me too.

Nobody's ever seen an end to this feast or the satisfaction.

The unknown is the feast really.

That's so amazing.

Because when we talk about it before we did a show called telling the truth and you would say that well,

That's not even the feast that's being at the gate.

And rather than saying I don't know what you're talking about,

I protected myself and went well,

Okay.

But inside I was like I don't know what you're talking about.

And to allow what's inside to come out,

To wow,

That's freedom.

Yes.

God,

It's so simple.

That's what keeps it secret.

It keeps it a challenge.

It's always simple.

So happy.

I think about all of the conversations that we've had and beautiful conversations.

And I listened to one the other day and I was just like oh my God,

You know,

I don't know how that stuff comes out of you,

But it's extraordinary.

But being free right now,

How I feel free,

It's like oh,

I would have asked you way different questions.

And then I've said a word,

Hmm,

I mean what question can you ask?

Really.

Even questions,

As you know,

I deeply respect questions.

I know their importance.

But finally,

If we're just asking questions,

To ask questions or to have a conversation,

That too is an avoidance of our deeper impossibility to know.

But that doesn't mean an impossibility to be,

Or to be fine,

Deeply fine,

To be peace.

So that's why the spoken conversation does end.

And you are simply in retreat with all in this discovery.

You know,

Often in satsang I tell people stop asking me that question,

A particular person,

Because you start to recycle on your asking and we reach a point where really it's not in the words,

It was never in the words.

The words were just a way of getting to this point where you could look out that window and you could recognize,

You know,

Without anything else ever happening.

It's fine.

It's good.

It's beautiful.

That's life.

That's life.

It's a life well lived.

It is.

Thank you.

Oh,

I thank you.

This is the point.

So when there arises in a human lifetime this mysterious grace of actually wanting to know the truth and not being satisfied with another spiritual philosophy or spiritual words or even spiritual good feelings,

As satisfying as all those are,

Recognizing that's not enough,

I have to know the truth.

And then of course you are drawn to people who are speaking the truth.

And naturally what happens is that the words are taken,

Maybe they are new words,

Maybe they are the same words,

But they are learned.

And they are spoken.

But it's still not the truth.

And so this left,

This hunger,

There is a question you can ask and you can deeply examine it and ruthlessly,

Often painfully,

Tell the truth about it.

And that is,

What does my life stand for?

What is my life standing for?

What has it stood for?

What is the deepest call for my life to stand for?

And all you have to do is really look very carefully,

Ruthlessly,

To see.

And you will see if you are speaking words of truth and living a life of a lie,

You will see that.

And it's a painful seeing and the mind will immediately make the lie itself some form of truth.

So it's a rigorous truth telling.

Otherwise inquiry is just a layer on top,

Another way of escaping,

A way of feeling good.

And you know that.

And you know the nectar of that and the addiction of that.

And yet there is a call within you that wants the truth or you wouldn't be here.

Because you know I have nothing to teach you.

I'm not teaching you anything.

Really.

I'm inviting you to examine at the deepest level who you are and that begins at the most superficial level.

And in the willingness to see the most superficial there is a strength and a capacity to actually see deeper.

I wasn't exactly sure how to wrap up this particular episode with Gangaji and as I was putting this show together I was also thinking about writing Gangaji a letter,

A report of sorts,

Letting her know some of the things that I've discovered during these 60 plus recorded conversations that we've had.

And what occurred to me was that it would be appropriate to share that letter with all of you since we have all shared this journey together,

Whether you've listened to one episode or all the episodes.

So this is it.

This is my letter to Gangaji.

Here's Gangaji.

Over six years ago when we did our pilot episode I secretly hoped,

Now that I'm willing to admit it at the risk of being not cool,

That somehow if I asked you enough questions I would understand your awakening.

That there would be something that you would share that would help me to get that one last thing I hadn't gotten yet.

I had a notion that there would be a specific question followed by a more specific answer where I could say,

I got it.

That I would somehow be able to realize your lightning bolt experience as my own.

That never happened.

Not once did I have a moment when I was suddenly one with everything around me.

I could not say that I discovered myself to be silence itself or the ground of being.

I will tell you what did happen.

And that is through these conversations there were moments too numerous to count when what I thought was true got totally turned on its head.

You kind of have a way of doing that.

Beyond that it was the willingness to lose the things I thought I couldn't live without that I discovered a freedom I did not expect nor could I have planned.

In order to do that I had to be willing to tell the truth about the things and people in my life that I was afraid to lose including you.

I have most definitely had an awakening as a result of meeting you.

One that happened over time.

It just didn't match what I had envisioned.

I have always tried to extract from life what I expected would make me happy.

And if I'm honest in some ways this show was another variation of that after all who wouldn't want to have the great privilege of sitting across from you.

Free to ask anything they wanted.

How many times have I heard people say that they are more able to connect to clarity and love when they're sitting with you.

It's like I got the golden ticket somehow being able to spend all this time with you.

But at the end of the day I still pack up my recording gear get in my car start driving down the road and begin once again listening to the preset radio stations that play in my head.

And then something happens from a torrent of less than merciful critiques about how I overlooked asking you an obvious question during our recording or that I once again maybe talk too fast or that someone else may have had deeper insights than me.

With the echo of your voice in my ear I somehow lift my head from this absorption into this project I call me and I noticed how the clouds are draped over the tops of the mountains.

I remember how much I love the color green and all the variations I see as I'm driving down the highway.

I remember how happy I am to be able to drive a car from Portland to Ashland because with my anxiety I didn't used to be able to leave my house let alone do something like that.

I wake from my drunkenness of thought and I am free knowing now more than ever that I am the only person to make that choice for myself and that will never not be true.

It's humbling that it's taken this long for me to actually drop my pretenses with you and everyone to let go of my spiritual vocabulary along with a pretty significant case of lingering spiritual workaholism.

In order to get to a place where I am truly willing to know nothing,

To be the one that doesn't get it in the way that I think I should or that I assume others do,

One thing that I do know is this.

You are in my cells.

You are closer than my breath.

You have been with me in the midst of my most profound losses and my most unexpected moments of liberation.

As I sat with my mom as she was dying,

I realized that this you that is always with me is actually me.

I realized,

And pardon me for stealing your words,

That it was the diamond in my pocket that had been there all along.

And as dependency transforms itself into true devotion,

I wonder what this life will look like.

What a grand exploration.

What a beginning.

Stop tell the truth,

Be still.

It couldn't possibly be any simpler.

There's this hot song that's on one of your videos where you say to the person sitting with you,

I thank you for your whole life.

Now I would like to thank you for yours.

Love always,

Hill.

As pure consciousness,

Incarnated as human beings on this planet,

We have the invitation to be completely responsible for where we find ourselves.

If your intention is to be true to your mind,

To being right,

To knowing,

Then you will have enormous support for that.

If your intention is to be true,

Period,

Then you will see that there is an even greater support,

Perhaps unseen and unknown,

Yet with a power that provides the courage to meet fully whatever appears.

This support mysteriously reveals itself in living answer to your original prayer to return home to who you really are.

Wherever you find yourself,

This is where you tell the truth.

In each instance of telling the truth,

A deeper truth is revealed.

Finally,

The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here,

Permeating everything,

Not a thing and not separate from anything,

The true radiance that was in your pocket all along.

I You You

Reviews

Lovely as is everything from gangaji. Thanks Hillary!

Checking my pockets for Diamonds I find a hole in my pocket.

Thankful for a moment to sit with what is always true. Reminding me that grace and truth are with me always.

This touches my core. Profound truth 🙏🏼

Gangaji is my beloved teacher. Thank you. I do not know anything profounder then the teachings of gangaji!

I skipped over this one a few times, because I wasn't familiar with satsang. from a conversation confuse me a little. But as I listen to more and learned more from Gangaji I find her truly inspiring. you will not regret the time you spend listenig to this. then you no doubt will go to find more.
Namaste 🙏

A wonderful sat sung in itself. Thank you. It brings me peace.

Thanks. Happiness is in my thoughts now . That’s beautiful:)

So beautiful so real thank you so much Hillary for speaking your truth for your deep inquiry for all of your love.

Thank you 🙏🏻❤️

I'm still contemplating this. Profound and too simple to fathom.

Thank you both for your dedication to the truth 🙏🏻

Truly, thank you for this. ❤️

Impactful, powerful.

I could feel the vulnerability with my whole body. Very inspiring. Thank you 🙏

Ah, the vulnerability and insight hits deep. Thank you for sharing this. Namaste ✨🙏 ✨

Loved it. Thank you. ❤

So moving. Thank you!

Yes, very powerful. Thank you.

What do I really want? Freedom from having to ask this question