Attachment Styles: In Conversation With Fabienne Sandoval

Join Fabienne in this conversation about Attachment Styles. Fabienne explains what attachment styles are, breaks down the three main styles, how this applies to our relationships, not just romantically, and shares a key tip on how to become secure.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to In Conversation with me,

Fabienne Sandoval,

Life coach,

Author and speaker.

I talk way too much,

So I thought I'd put that skill to use by sharing with you this series of conversations,

Designed to expand your awareness and knowledge of becoming secure and empowered in your self-worth.

Meet Sam,

My OBM,

Wingwoman and literal can't live without.

We tried the breakup once and it didn't work.

I'll be here to ask the juicy questions and help extract some of these powerful insights from Fabienne.

So let's begin.

Today we're going to be talking about attachment styles.

So,

Hello Fab.

Hello.

Attachment styles.

What was life like before you learnt about attachment styles and what are they?

Oh my god,

So really good question.

Alright,

So I'm going to start with the what are they first.

The best way that I think we can think about attachment styles is you literally have this system that is built in within you.

We can't run away from it,

We can't hide from it,

It's there.

And what this system does is it essentially keeps you safe.

It's looking out for your survival.

Doing that through your closest attachment.

Meaning in childhood,

Your primary caregiver.

Or in adult life,

Your romantic partner.

And so what this built-in system does is it's constantly scanning,

Searching,

Looking to see how well connected you are to that primary attachment.

And the idea is that back in the day this was really important for our survival.

So,

You know,

You don't want to be ate by a lion for example.

And you need your community,

You need your attachment.

Yeah.

Make sure that that doesn't happen to you.

Obviously life has moved on somewhat since then.

But it's still super important if we think of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Love and belonging is still very,

Very,

Very important.

And it's something that each and every one of us need.

So when it comes to attachment styles,

There's three main attachment styles basically.

Yeah.

50% of the world are secure.

And then the other 50% of the world,

Which is made up through a range of percentages,

But are anxious or avoidant or a mixture of the two.

That's a scary percentage really.

It is a number that I absolutely cannot stand.

It makes me so sad that 50% of the world is insecure.

That is something I want to change.

That is something that I'm not okay with.

Yeah.

And I think that's why I love attachment styles so much because coming to the question of what was my life like before.

When I found,

I said,

I say this in my book,

When I found out about attachment styles for me,

It was like I'd had a,

I'd had a diagnosis of a lifelong problem.

Because I found out that I was anxious and I had been anxious more than likely since before I was actually born.

And so in my mom's tummy,

Like literally with her being pregnant,

I was already anxious.

That was already like my destiny if we want to call it that.

I'm sure mom will love that.

Love you mom.

And there's good reason for that,

Which I won't get into right now,

But essentially I was anxious.

And so what that meant is in my romantic relationships,

Once I got later into life,

I was so anxious.

I was so preoccupied outside of a relationship.

So if I didn't have a boyfriend,

I would be like this super cool,

Well,

I'm calling myself that,

But like I would be super cool and relaxed and like I would be really into my work and I would have my hobbies and blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And as soon as I would get a boyfriend,

Everything would go out the window.

And I'm so preoccupied by this person.

I wouldn't be able to maintain my life.

I wouldn't be able to concentrate on my work and on the things that I wanted to do.

I would be so overwhelmed with all of that,

That I couldn't think about anything other than that.

And it completely preoccupied me.

But from a perspective of like a negative perspective,

Really for me,

I was just so it was almost like a such a strong desire.

Like,

Do they love me?

Are they going to text me back?

Are they going to be with me?

And that's very much the anxiety of like living in a relationship where you don't feel secure.

Yeah.

And instead of enjoying it,

You're spending the whole time just panicking about it.

Yeah.

Are they going to text me back?

Are they going to call me?

Am I going to see them?

When am I going to see them?

Oh,

They didn't say anything.

Oh,

They moved.

You know,

With I always laugh and say with someone that has an anxious attachment style,

They will look at the way the person blinks and they know something's wrong.

It's ridiculous.

Yeah.

They're like,

You blink differently.

I know that you don't love me anymore.

And it's like,

That isn't even the case.

But to an anxious person,

They are very attuned,

Usually from childhood in noticing these very subtle things.

And so they're used to walking on eggshells.

They're used to needing to be a chameleon and kind of,

Okay,

Well,

What's going on here?

And so before my relationships were a complete mess.

My romantic life was a complete mess because I was,

They were not enjoyable for me.

Relationships were not enjoyable for me.

I had no idea how to be in one.

I had no idea how to soothe that anxiety that I felt when I was in a relationship.

When you've said about those,

You've got that anxious style,

Are there like core styles of attachment?

Is it like anxious or over protected?

Do you know what I mean?

Is there specific?

Yeah.

So like the two key ones that are the insecure ones,

Right?

Because the secure one does what it says on the tin.

They feel confident about relationships.

They are happy,

Relying on people.

They are,

You know,

They can be themselves in a relationship.

They wouldn't put up with any shit as well.

A person that's like,

You know,

Secure,

That feels secure.

You know,

They're going to be like,

No,

I deserve more than that.

There's someone else out there that would be able to meet this need.

They're really good at communicating that kind of stuff.

For the other camp,

The insecure side,

We have anxious,

Which is kind of what I've been talking about.

So really preoccupied with relationship,

With their relationships,

Yearning and desiring the other person to love them back and worrying about that a lot.

A lot of protests,

Kind of protest behaviors,

You know,

Withdrawal,

Silent treatment,

This kind of stuff,

If someone's not kind of doing what you want them to do.

And then on the other side of that,

We have the avoidant style.

So the avoidance style is this person that really,

Really loves their independence.

Like they love their independence so much that when they get into romantic relationships,

They feel suffocated.

They feel like this person is going to take their independence away from them.

And so they spend all of their,

Where the anxious person spends all their time trying to spend time with someone that they're in a relationship with,

The avoidant person spends all their time trying to keep distance with the person that they're with.

Is this kind of,

Can they be,

These styles,

Can they relate to kind of like friendships and any other kind of relationships or is it just mainly specifically that romantic,

That close partner?

It's so,

I'm so glad you say this because often when clients come to me and we're talking about this and maybe they've heard like,

Oh,

You were anxious,

How did you become secure?

It is in all of your relationships.

And that was something that took me a little while to understand about my own self that,

Oh my God.

So I was behaving anxiously in romantic relationships,

But behaving avoidant in my friendships.

And so actually it can manifest in like a whole host of ways.

And yet it does show up in our friendships.

It shows up in work.

It shows up in really all of our relationships.

But we can have different styles for different people,

Which is crazy.

Yeah.

You kind of sit there thinking going,

Oh yeah,

I wonder,

And you think,

Oh,

Mine might be that sort of attachment style with that.

It's just starting to make,

It does start to make you think how you are yourself.

So you've said before about how you've been anxious in relationships.

But how did you learn about these styles and then what was it like for you after you'd learned about these styles?

You know what,

That's such a good question.

I'm trying to actually remember what my first experience was with attachment styles.

Like a moment where you went,

Oh,

Shit,

This is it.

This is the thing.

This is what I'm going to change.

Yes.

So it was in.

Yeah.

Okay.

So now I remember in my year of love,

Of course,

Where,

When else would I have discovered this knowledge?

In my age of love,

My year of love,

When I was 30,

I decided to dedicate myself 12 months of learning about love because I had realized I'm 30.

And I have not had like what I would describe as something that felt like a successful relationship.

Yeah.

My definition of what a successful relationship now is,

Is totally different.

And I wouldn't describe any of them as found because you're learning something always.

But what happened is I don't know how it came to me.

I don't know where I got it from.

I have no recollection of this.

I just know that I discovered the book called attached and it's by Dr.

Amir Levine and Rachel Heller.

And they basically it's the new science of attachment,

Basically.

And they talk about the connection of where attachment styles came from and essentially what it looks like in romantic relationships.

And I've read that book going and this is me and this is me and this is me and this is me and this is me and that is me.

And oh,

Dear God,

Thank you.

Thank you for sending me the answers like just thank you.

And as soon as I as soon as I read that,

I knew that I had like found something that I was going to be forever obsessed with.

Yeah.

And every interaction that I had with every person,

With every client,

With every friend,

Anyone telling me a story about their love life,

I'm going anxious about my brain.

And this is how my brain literally works.

I can never have a normal interaction with anyone ever since that because I'm just like,

Wow,

That person's avoiding.

Oh,

Wow.

I feel judged.

I feel really judged.

But not judged,

But it's just like,

Yeah,

I guess like a gentle categorization.

That's how I describe it.

And as well,

It's more so because I think it's not about like labeling,

But it's just about being able to see how these what these behaviors are and kind of like I say,

Being able to categorize them in some way.

It helps,

At least for me,

And I feel like with a lot of the clients I work with,

It helps people to categorize like,

Ah,

That's what's happening.

So I understand this person's limitations,

Not because they are bad in some way.

Right.

Like everybody,

I really believe that people are not trying to,

You know,

Nobody's ever trying to do something bad to you.

They're usually just trying to get a need met.

They're just trying to get love.

Right.

And so,

You know,

Even for the avoidant person,

If they're distancing their self,

That's just like their self protection.

They just want to like,

They just need to protect.

They need to love their self in that moment.

But of course,

If we don't have this knowledge,

We can see that as a bad thing.

So I really love these,

The ways that we can categorize and we can see that.

Oh,

My God,

Look.

OK,

So they're just behaving in an avoidant way.

OK,

I can know that as a limitation for that person,

And then I can accept them more and love them more because of that.

Yeah.

You can mold,

Not mold yourself,

But react and be able to deal with things in a better way,

Knowing how their attachment style works.

Yeah.

And we don't take it personally that way.

Yeah.

Just because someone's avoidant.

For me in the past,

Like definitely throughout my 20s,

I would take it so personally if someone did take three days to get back to me or something.

What are you doing for three days?

What's going on?

It's like,

No,

I'm just like,

OK,

So you need your space.

So you that it's not that is never personal to me.

No one's out of their way to do something to you.

They're usually just thinking about themselves.

Yeah.

Or like me,

I get distracted by shiny things and forget to reply to people or I reply in my head.

That's my normal thing.

Exactly right.

So you've used to this book was the the kind of catalyst to you learning about these attachment styles.

And obviously you use them in your sessions with your clients.

And how do you use how do you use them?

How do you kind of apply what you've learned to each of your clients?

And I know that's a difficult question because each client is different,

But an average,

If there is such a thing,

Client,

How how would you help them apply and recognize?

Yeah,

Really good question.

So I think like the really cool thing is it's like when you have attachment style knowledge,

It's like a superpower because someone can come in and just be having like a half an hour,

Like check in.

Cool with me,

Like,

Oh,

Would I want to do coaching or would I want to work with Fabienne basically?

And usually within about like,

You know,

Two minutes,

I can just be like,

So,

Hey,

It sounds like this.

And they're like blown away because they're like,

Well,

How could you know this about me?

And it's like,

Well,

Because that's attachment styles,

You know,

This is like the fundamental ways that we behave.

So each person is completely unique.

I think that the the themes that I see,

Because naturally I'm working usually with people that have the insecure,

You know,

All right.

So I think a secure person wouldn't have these issues,

So they wouldn't necessarily need the knowledge,

Right?

They wouldn't even be thinking about it.

So if you're in that insecure camp,

Then that's the kind of people that I usually work with.

A lot of people that are primarily anxious and then,

You know,

Wanting to get better at relationships and avoidant people as well.

And so what we would normally do is it needs to be a healthy flow of the person understanding the knowledge,

Understanding how it's showing up in their life,

Understanding it in relationship to the relationships that they're having.

You know,

So,

For example,

In just a session with a client this week,

One of the things I'm really big on,

And if you've ever worked with me,

You know,

This is I'm constantly bringing you back.

You tell me about something that is going on in a relationship,

Whether it's a friendship,

A family,

Romantic,

Etc.

And I will bring you back to,

Okay,

And what do we know about like this person from an attachment style perspective?

What do you know about your attachment style with this perspective?

So I will give the tools and the knowledge and the understanding of what that looks like,

Where they're at with theirs,

And then we will keep bringing it back to what is this showing you in these relationships with the guidance of what secure looks like and how to know how to spot that and pick that.

Because a lot of the people that come to me,

They usually are wanting to have,

You know,

A successful romantic relationship.

And so we can do a lot of the prep work and then send them out into the field to go and find someone and date,

And then they date with the knowledge of what it means to be secure.

And then they meet that person,

Which is so awesome,

You know,

So I have a few people right now that are focused on dating,

And all of them are successfully dating secure people,

Securely attached people.

Which is great if you have an insecure attachment,

Because the statistics show that you do not have to have two securely attached people in a relationship to make it secure,

You actually have one secure person and one insecurely attached person,

And the overarching view of the relationship will still be secure,

Which is so yeah.

No,

That's brilliant.

But it's not just kind of,

I mean,

I know we've talked about partners and relationships,

But I know that just talking to you that it's something that you can apply to your daily kind of work life as well is just having that knowledge as well can help you deal with having conversations with people on a day to day basis.

So it isn't just the,

It's mainly the relationships,

But it's also the kind of day to day conversations.

Absolutely,

Yeah,

Like it's in everything,

Because everybody has an attachment style,

As I said,

It's something that's built in,

We all have one so every single person has it.

And you have yours.

And so being able to know what yours is,

That gives you that self awareness,

Which essentially is what we're building,

We're building the self awareness that you know about what your style is,

And then being able to kind of see the general themes of what other people's styles might be,

And then knowing how to work with people more effectively.

So yeah,

And what it's great because if you are anxious that your boss is avoidant,

For example,

You're going to know,

Oh,

Okay,

Actually,

You know what,

This is going to be a better way for me to communicate.

This is going to be a better way for me to to show up in this situation.

So it is really cool because we can learn a lot from that.

What would be then your one piece of advice,

I'm not sure,

Because obviously I don't want to give too much of what you do away with it.

Give it all away for free.

But if you could give somebody out there who is insecure,

Is what would you give them as a first step,

I guess,

Other than to book to see you,

And to speak to you and be with you.

But yeah,

What would be the biggest takeaway that you've had maybe?

Yeah,

So I think that the first thing and this is if you was coming into be a client of mine.

The very first thing that you will do is if you literally just Google Dr Chris Fraley,

Right,

F R.

I'm sure.

If you put that in an attachment style questionnaire,

There is a fully in depth attachment style questionnaire takes about 10 minutes to do.

And what it will do is it will tell you in your key relationships,

So your father figure,

Your mother figure,

Your friendships and your romantic relationships,

It will plot you and tell you how secure or insecure where you are.

So how anxious you are,

How avoidant you are,

And it will give you a breakdown of each of those relationships.

And that is like the very first place to start.

And like I said,

That is what I would do if I have someone come in,

That's the first place we start to get the data.

Where are you at right now?

Right,

I'm just gonna Google so after this,

I'm gonna go and do mine.

And I'll let you know what's happened.

Yes,

Please do.

I'm just sobbing in a corner.

But no,

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

Because I mean,

I didn't really know much about attachment styles.

And like I said,

I'm sitting here now kind of going,

Oh,

I wonder what kind I am and Oh,

What if that's what I do or I don't do and how do I present myself as that?

Or do I present myself as that talking to other people.

So that's been really helpful.

I think that's about it.

I think you're safe now.

You can stop talking.

Oh,

Great.

I think it's amazing.

Thank you so much.

I know you like talking to me.

But that's been amazing.

Thank you so much Fabian.

You're so welcome.

And I'm just I'm really excited to be able to share the knowledge and to just talk about it a little bit more freely.

So it's like this element of conversation,

You know,

Where it's like,

This would be something that,

Yeah,

If you were having like a one on one,

Like kind of informal,

Like,

Oh,

I'm curious about coaching,

This might be some of the stuff that we might kind of dig into,

Obviously,

For you more personally,

But it's really nice to have general chit chat around it instead of it being such like a formal attachment style.

You know,

I don't think it's important for people to know that this is kind of what you get when you come and get coaching from you and get one to one from you and that sort of thing that this is this is the feeling that you get when you're doing them,

That it is their conversation that it is more.

I don't know.

Yeah,

Like less static,

I think is probably the way to describe it.

Yeah,

I always describe my coaching because people often ask the question of what like,

What will it be like,

Though?

Like,

How will you how will you coach me to this end goal to this end point?

And I always say it's like a healthy element of flow.

So allowing what is going to come up naturally,

We work with that alongside the tools and the and the knowledge to to help you grow.

You know,

There's things in my mind that I'm always like,

Hey,

These are these are topics we're going to cover off,

But we'll I'll bring them in as and when they it comes up naturally,

Really.

Thank you so much.

You're so welcome.

Yeah.

Reviews

Like being part of an intimate friendship conversation and being able to glean wisdom and insight without the pressure of responding (because, let's face it, I would respond from my attachment style) and feeling the embodied wisdom as it applies to and shows up in my life.