Two Styles Of Coping With Emotionally Immature Parents (3/7)

In this part #3 of a series on the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, we are going to explore the two styles of coping with emotionally immature parents: internalizers and externalizers. Becoming aware of these two styles will help you uncover unconscious patterns and dynamics that may run your life in a toxic way.

The goal is not to blame, but to be very compassionate, accept, forgive, and heal this generational trauma so that we don't continue passing it along to future generations. I can't wait to share time with you!

This is a live session recording.

Transcript

Welcome everybody to another session about the series that we are doing on the book called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.

We are covering this beautiful book that I read last year.

My wife also has read and I actually listened to it first and then I read it after because I really found lots of amazing things but this is by the author Lindsey C Gibson.

Okay so today we're gonna be talking about the two different copy mechanisms of ways of dealing with emotional neglect and that is internalizing and externalizing.

Okay so as always I invite you to be very gentle with yourself.

The intention of this session is not to blame,

It's not to be hard on ourselves or on anyone else.

The intention for this session is all about being curious,

Becoming aware and I hope start healing or keep healing generational trauma.

Okay so this is all dynamics that we learned when we were little and they are kind of like creating ripple effects everywhere in our lives and you are going to see like some of those things why they happen like that,

How what we learned when we were little is creeping into our romantic relationships,

Is creeping into our social interactions,

Is creeping in the way we work,

In what we need,

What we want and and yeah the dynamics that we get involved with it's very very interesting.

Lorette says yes it is really hard to be here in this series so relevant though.

Yeah Lorette I hear you it makes total sense.

It's very difficult for me sometimes when I'm reading the content because I see myself reflected as a father and also as a child and I see myself reflected from both directions and sometimes it's really hard but let me tell you one thing anytime we resonate with something and and there is a an emotional intensity in something that we are listening to or that means that there is something behind to to uncover,

Something to work through,

Something to process,

It's what I call an entry point.

It's an opportunity to transform that resistance,

That charged emotion that you may be feeling into a healing opportunity so that you can move forward in a different way but it makes total sense and please take care of yourself.

Safety means something different for each person so you know what you need to feel safe,

You know when it has been enough for you,

If you feel too triggered I invite you and I give you the permission to take care of yourself in whatever way that is and if you need to leave the session just leave it and come back,

Do whatever you need to do.

I record all these sessions so don't worry about missing out because you can always come back for the recording,

Okay?

My invitation is always to try to find your edge,

Okay?

Try to find the edge where you are starting to feel uncomfortable but don't push it too much that you lose control emotionally speaking and one of the things that are really important is breathing.

If you keep breathing deeply when we breathe deeply we can feel more and sometimes we don't want to feel more but it also allows us to be more present,

It allows us to flow more energy.

Just remember that all the emotions are energy in motion so we are moving energy.

This morning I was doing a practice,

A meditation practice and I was just bawling,

I was just.

.

.

There was so much coming out of me,

I was so emotionally tender and it's okay,

That's beautiful and that is so healing.

So give yourself permission to go where you need to go.

If you need to cry,

Cry.

If you need to scream into a pillow,

Scream into a pillow.

If you need to leave the session,

Leave the session but always find your edge,

Always try to encourage yourself to move a little bit further if you can because there is a warmness to be discovered here,

Okay?

I see how strongly I internalize and I still blame myself in most situations.

Yeah,

Lorette,

I feel that I am also an internalizer and I feel you,

It's so hard,

It's so difficult not to be able to share,

Not to be able to ask for help,

To be the quiet one,

The one that no one pays attention to and many,

Many other things so I can feel you.

This is so kind,

Thank you,

Emilia.

You're welcome,

Jan.

Where do we find the recording,

Please?

So Rachel,

All the recordings from all my live sessions,

You can go to my profile link on Insight Timer and then you can find an option there.

So just go to my profile link,

Go to the About tab and there is a link in there and if you click on that link,

You will see an option that is gonna take you to a place where you can find all the archive with all the recordings,

Okay?

Hi,

Nicholas,

Hi,

Rachel.

Guys,

Are you open to doing a little bit of smudging before we get started?

Would you like that?

Just to clean the environment and to transition into the session?

Let me know.

Hello,

Javi-D,

How are you doing?

Thank you so much for being here.

Yeah,

And thank you all for creating space and time in your busy lives to be in this live session with me.

It really fills my heart with joy,

Okay?

So I have a little bit of smudging here,

Okay?

So I just want you to remind yourself that the intention is to be kind,

To be very sensitive,

Very compassionate and we are not doing this to create more damage.

We are doing this to heal,

To create more healing opportunities with ourselves and with others,

Okay?

So I am smudging you,

Smudging your energy.

This is a beautiful practice that I started doing not long ago and I was introduced to it by different people and I really,

Really like it because it's an opportunity to practice mindfulness,

It's an opportunity to bring presence to the moment and to really remind yourself of what you are doing,

What your intention is and how you feel.

So thank you so much for allowing me to do that.

So the book,

This is chapter five in case you are interested,

Okay?

And again,

For those of you,

We are covering the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and we are on chapter five.

So in chapter five there are a couple concepts that the book talks about that I find very,

Very interesting and then anytime that parents are not able to engage emotionally with children,

There are two things that happen here,

Okay,

According to the book.

One thing is that the children,

So imagine that I'm a children of an emotionally immature parent,

I create healing fantasies.

I create healing fantasies about future moments that will fulfill me.

Healing fantasies about things that need to happen outside of me for me to feel fulfilled and being seen and being taken care of and so I create this fantasy and these fantasies,

Basically you are creating a fantasy that doesn't exist,

Something that you would like to happen so that you can feel well and then you are gonna bring those fantasies,

Whatever needs to happen in that fantasy that is gonna look different for each of us,

We are gonna bring that to our romantic relationships,

We're gonna bring that to our social interactions,

We're gonna bring that to our work,

We're gonna bring that with us,

Okay,

So that's the first thing.

We are going to create healing fantasies of something that needs to happen and the other one is that we create a special family role.

When we are little and we are emotionally neglected,

We want attention from our parents so we are willing to do whatever it takes to get that attention and sometimes the book defines this as role self.

We will create a role self or we will fall in a specific role that will allow us to gain something at that moment when we are little and then that role we are going to carry that self role over to our adulthood and unless we do work,

Unless we become aware,

Unless we heal that part of us,

We are going to keep repeating that over and over and over everywhere we go.

So this is very deep guys,

This is something that sometimes you may hear inner child work,

Shadow work,

Generational trauma,

There are so many words or labels that we can use in this context but basically we create a healing fantasy of something that needs to happen for us to have our needs fulfilled and then we also create special family roles,

A role self and we're gonna dive more into them and some examples,

Okay?

I'm giving you like an overview first so that you understand.

Okay,

Can you guys see me?

I see there is rattling sound.

Can you guys see me or are you.

.

.

So much background noise.

Can you guys see me?

Yes?

Okay because there is no background noise here so sorry if you're having technical problems.

So basically when we are little,

The true self,

Our true self is not good enough to engage so we cannot find a way to engage with our parents and what happens is that we create the belief that we need to become something other than who we really are.

So basically children of emotionally immature parents are going to create the belief that they need to become something different than their true self in order to receive,

To be noticed,

To be cared for and to be engaged with.

So just imagine everything that is happening here.

So you are your true self,

You are your true person with your personality and your way of interacting with the world and all the sudden you are placing a dynamic with emotionally immature parents that have different dynamics and they have different needs and so we have looked at some of the kinds of emotionally immature parents in past sessions.

You can go back to the recording if you want but once you are entering those dynamics basically what happens is that you believe that the wrong is you are the wrong person there.

You don't know what to do,

You are not getting what you need so you need to do something about it and you are going to create a self,

A raw self.

Something so that you can get some energy,

You can get some attention and then basically when this emotional neglect is happening there are two ways according to the book on how we can cope with that and one way is internalizing and the other way is externalizing and we are going to dive into those two types of coping mechanisms or how do we react to that more in depth.

So far I just want to check with you guys,

So far is this making sense?

You guys have any questions so far?

I just want to make sure that I didn't lose you.

Yes,

Making sense?

And I strongly recommend that you read this book or listen to this book if you resonate with this content because the book expands so much and it has real-life stories from different people in each chapter so I found this book very approachable,

Very practical,

Very relatable because it's not this kind of book that you read and it uses a lot of vocabulary and expressions that sounds too scientific or too medical or too.

.

.

This is very like down-to-earth,

Very relatable for me at least.

So yeah,

By the way I'm fairly new to your sessions,

Do you do a meditation too?

So Rachel sometimes I do,

Sometimes I don't.

Today we are covering this book so there won't be like a practice of meditation if that's what you are asking for,

Okay?

Yes Emilio,

But I thought internalizing meant we blame ourselves.

Loret,

It doesn't have to be like that.

Internalizing as you will discover,

There are so many attributes to that and I'm gonna read what it means,

Internalizing and externalizing.

Both can blame themselves so that's something that can happen on both cases and you can have a bit of both so you don't have to.

.

.

Normally the book says that you have a tendency to be more one than the other but at some stages of your life you may have both,

You may embody both.

So the book is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsey C Gibson,

Okay for those of you who are just joining.

Jessica says do you have advice for me please?

I am a parent and I have been under pressure recently and I lost it with my 15 year old son over a series of choices he made.

I said things I regret and now it was damaging for him.

Yeah Jessica,

First of all I really honor for you to own this,

Right?

I really honor your willingness to really repair and I think that that's what's needed,

Right?

When you do something that you don't like or you do something that is hurtful you have to try and repair that.

How do you repair?

Well,

Clear communication and healthy communication can be a good starting point using some structure that I covered in past sessions like a nonviolent communication structure can be nice,

The imago dialogue structure or intentional dialogue structure can be nice and really ask for forgiveness on what you did.

Emphasize with your son like I can imagine how when I said that you may have felt X Y and Zed and things like that and yeah just model to him what it looks like to to apologize what it looks like to share your feelings and how you are feeling and the impact that your actions and your words could have and even the reasons why what were you feeling when you were doing that because you can say something like I can imagine that when I said that to you you felt X Y and Zed I'm really sorry that I did that at that moment I was feeling this this and that this is not an excuse of why I acted that way but now I see that that has a very negative impact on you and I would love to find a way to to repair this and I would like to tell you how much I love it whatever so just be be honest but I think that that that is a really good example on how to don't be an immature emotionally immature parent but we all are we all go there so don't worry like I myself include everybody goes there and when we fucked up when we make a mistake let's just own it many times I go to my daughter five years old and I lose it on her because she does something she triggers me I am out of patience that day I'm tired whatever and I will lose it at her I will make a comment or I will elevate my voice I will do something and then she will start crying and I will be oh so that's my opportunity to stop self-regulate breathe and then create space ask for forgiveness explain what happened and then really model to her what it means and how it looks like to to really be sorry about something that you did and and repair as much as you can so I hope that you have good luck with that and I hope it works well do you have those techniques listed somewhere about talking to team some a star I have some some lives recordings upon healthy communication and imago dialogue and nonviolent communication that you can listen to so I will invite you to do that and that will give you a lot of context you can also like Google imago dialogue and nonviolent communication process and you will find the structure is very easy it's just for four steps to follow and you can model that and I'm happy to help further if you if you need more help okay so talking about the the healing fantasies okay I just want to read a couple of things from the book that are it will help make more sense about this why do we create a healing fantasy okay so as children we make sense of the world by putting together a story that explains our life to us we imagine that would make us feel better and create what I call a healing fantasy a hopeful story about what will make us truly happy one day so as you see this is a story that we invent in our heads when we are little that will fulfill our needs okay and she calls it a healing fantasy children often often think the cure for their childhood pain and emotional loneliness lies in finding a way to change themselves and other people into something other than what they really are healing fantasies all have that theme therefore everyone's healing fantasy begins with if only and you can complete the sentence if only blah blah blah and that would be a healing fantasy that you may have so for example people may think that they will be loved if only they were selfless or attractive enough or if only they could find a sensitive selfless partner or they may think their life will be healed by becoming becoming famous or extremely rich or making other people afraid of them these are some examples of those fantasies but whatever the healing fantasy it gives a child the optimism to get through a painful upbringing in hopes of a better future many people have survived a miserable childhood in this way the hopeful fantasy of one day being loved and attended to keep it's what keeps them going so it's a it's a self-defense mechanism we create that because at that time of our lives we need that to survive we need that to maintain hope so that's what I'm getting from this right it's a fantasy that we create that hopefully one day we will receive that because right now we are not so how healing fantasies affect adult relationships it says as we grow into adulthood we secretly expect our closest relationships to make our healing fantasies come true our subconscious expectations for other people come straight from this childhood fantasy world and I just want to pause there and I just want to ask you guys what's coming up for you and let me read this again as we grow into adulthood we secretly expect our closest relationships to make our healing fantasies come true what comes up for you guys when I read that sentence makes total sense so just imagine so you are expecting you need your closest relationships most likely your partner children your parents the people closest to you they have to complete the healing fantasy you need that from them unconsciously so that is really eye-opening right there and this is why this series is so powerful because we all have some sort of healing fantasy in our heads that most likely is unconscious and we are bringing with us everywhere we go and our job is to discover it get curious about it and heal it hopefully that's what we can do with that big burden to place on them and when they don't match up the relationship fails Rachel absolutely I am doing a course actually with another teacher here on inside timer and it's so wonderful because she's talking about tantra it's a whole course it's a nine-month course about tantra and one of the things that we learn in that course is how important it is to be whole within ourselves okay so basically we the yin and yang that symbol that is black and white and it kind of interlaces ideally that yin and yang the masculine and the feminine the positive and negative like whatever you want to call it hopefully you are complete inside of you our our job here is to try and be complete whole beings in ourselves and from that place we interact with the rest of the world with the other people what happens if we are unconscious and we don't have a wholeness inside we are going to find wholeness outside of us and we're gonna find the piece that we are missing the piece that we need the piece that will make us feel whatever we need to feel and we are gonna start a relationship with that person because that person most likely has the same missing piece as you do so perfect match but what happens that as people say here over time the relationships will fail because that's a toxic dynamic that is a dynamic that you need something from each other it's codependence it is not interdependence it is codependence and I think we all have it in some degree like I'm very codependent and I'm working so much on on becoming interdependent but it is difficult but the more work I do the more I become aware of and the more I try to change dynamics and books like this one are good because are helping us see that that sound interference is there again it's a heavy burden for our loved ones to figure out what our healing fantasies are yeah sorry about the noise I don't know what what it is but there is nothing here making noise and I'm aware of so my apologies for that so about the developing a role self do you guys have any questions about you guys have any questions about the the healing fantasy and I'm going to stay I'm gonna try to stay without moving to see if that noise disappears but I don't know what I know what that noise is the most misunderstood face in American cinema is the one from Jerry Maguire you complete me no one can complete you indefinitely you must find your own way that's beautiful Isadora you complete me yeah exactly when you say that word when we need someone else to complete us we are not whole there is something there that we need to heal because we are needy because we need something from the other person and we most likely expect something from the other person and that is not a healthy relationship it started when you beat the smudging shell down my computer fan is going on so maybe it's the computer fan and there is nothing I can do about that it stopped now okay amazing I don't know what that is the mystery sound so let's look at developing a role self okay so we took that the role self is something that you create when you are little so that you can get attention you can get some kind of emotional connection and it's something that you put on top of your true self so basically you find out that your true self is not getting what it needs so you create a role self you put a mask on you embody someone different to get what you need so in here it says that you develop a role self that will give you a secure place in your family system so you are going to create a role self that will create a secure place in your family system whatever that is for you okay it says this soft role self gradually replaces the spontaneous expression of the true self so basically the true self gets buried down and you create a role self that hopefully will get their needs meet met emotionally speaking okay so this process of course is unconscious nobody sets out to do it deliberately so this is something that we do unconsciously it's a protection mechanism right but as adults we tend to keep playing our role in hopes that someone will pay attention to us in the way we wished our parents had so basically when we go into adulthood we are going to keep using the same strategies we're going to keep engaging the same way getting involved in the same dynamics in the hopes that you get what you wished your parents gave you and imago dialogue therapy it is based on this because imago its image in Latin I think and then basically it says that you are an image of your parents you are an image of what you learned in the dynamics of the environment where you were growing up so basically you are an image of those dynamics and you are bringing that into your partnerships especially with your partner romantic partner and then you are going to do those dynamics because they are familiar to you because you are wishing that you are going to receive what you needed and then that's why we trigger each other so much in partnership because we are touching the most tender spots emotionally speaking and we are engaging in dynamics that we have an agenda with we want something from we are needy and many times this is unconscious this is not something that we are doing intentionally it's just unconscious that's why hopefully we can come become aware of this and then bring it to the consciousness and start healing it that is so profound wow I finally stopped this behavior most of the time yeah amazing that's great can this vacuum of attention lead to promiscuous behavior in people especially young people Anna absolutely yeah absolutely well I need to find and read this book and perhaps buy copies for my yeah give one copy to each family member and to your partner yeah it's a really good book some people get triggered though especially when they see the title they see themselves reflected and they feel like like attacked it's like well you think I am I am that so can be very very triggering too but yeah so so yeah these concepts are really interesting and then now I would like to read you the definition according to the book about internalizing and externalizing and the book labels people as internalizers and externalizers I personally don't like labels but I will say that you can cope with an internalizing mechanism or an externalizing mechanism you may have a tendency to gravitate to one more than the other but it could they could be mixed okay so you don't have to only be one or the other there can be a fusion in there depending on on on your situation okay but yeah let me read that makes sense and it may be so hard for us to recognize because it is a brother into our nature over childhood years yeah Catherine that's been happening for I don't know I am 44 years old so how many years have I been repeating the same thing over and over and over that's why this healing work takes time because I'm healing one year everything that happened the last 44 years and the older you get the more stuff probably you have to look at process heal but it's never too late either right it's never too late yeah so let me read internalizers and if someone can yeah or 60 years Catherine says if someone can put the name of the book on the chat for people who are joining now that would be great so internalizers internalizers are mentally active and love to learn things they try to solve problems from the inside out by being self-reflective and trying to learn from their mistakes they are sensitive and try to understand cause and effect seeing life as an opportunity to develop themselves they enjoy becoming more competent they believe they can make things better by trying harder and they instinctively take responsibility for solving problems on their own their main sources of anxiety are feeling guilty when they displease others and the fear of being exposed as imposters their biggest relationship downfall is being overly self-sacrificing and then becoming resentful of how much they do for others so that was internalizers coping mechanism of internalizing things and I can read the externalizers if you guys want and then we can chat about them thank you Becca,

Kasia and Adela for posting that in the chat the name of the book other children of emotionally immature parents and for putting the author it's a beautiful book I recommend you guys to really read are you guys ready for externalizers but do you have questions or you want to have comments about internalizers just let me know I don't want to overwhelm you going too fast oh my goodness I am such an internalizer I am an internalizer too Catherine please reread internalizer yeah I can do that so I'm going to read excuse me internalizer again okay internalizers are mentally active and love to learn things they try to solve problems from the inside out by being self-reflective and trying to learn from their mistakes they are sensitive and try to understand cause and effect seeing life as an opportunity to develop themselves they enjoy becoming more competent they believe they can make things better by trying harder so they can they believe that they can make things better by trying harder and they instinctively take responsibility for solving problems on their own their main sources of anxiety are feeling guilty when they displease others and the fear of being exposed as imposters their biggest relationship downfall is being overly self-sacrificing and then becoming resentful of how much they do for others so that that was internalizers okay and again you are going to resonate with some of these and probably externalizers you will see you may see something there too for you but the book says that normally we all have a natural tendency to gravitate more into one or the other but that doesn't mean that you won't have characteristics of both okay so I'm gonna read now and you are welcome Samastar thank you for asking for what you need thank you if I don't want to do it I will say no so don't be shy to ask okay for what you need so I am going to read externalizers now externalizers take action before they think about things they are reactive and do things impulsively to blow off anxiety quickly they tend not to be self-reflective assigning blame to other people and circumstances rather than their own actions they experience life as a process of trial and error but rarely use their mistakes to learn how to do better in the future they are firmly attached to the notion that things need to change in the outside world in order for them to be happy believing that if only other people will give them what they want their problems will be solved their coping style is frequently so self-defeating and disruptive that other people have to step in to repair the damage from their impulsive actions externalizers feel that competent people owe them help and tend to believe that good things have come to other people rather unfairly regarding self-image they either have very low self-confidence or a sense of inflated superiority they depend on external soothing which makes them susceptible to substance abuse addictive relationships and many forms of immediate gratification their main source of anxiety is that they will be cut off from the external sources their security depends upon their biggest relationship problems include being attractive to impulsive people and being overly dependent on others for support and stability so that was the externalizer resonates with me too that is what I meant by saying I was to blame I mean I take responsibility about everyone's feelings our externalizers control freaks and vice versa sounds like a narcissist so I am sure that the book talks about these two copy mechanisms but again every person is unique every situation is unique and this can merge in many different ways okay and you guys are asking control freaks mean externalizer and narcissistic sounds like that and it may be a yes it may be a no it may be a yes on both and it may be a no on both it depends on the on how much of it this person has and the behaviors that they are demonstrating and it depends on every specific situation too so it's very difficult to generalize okay yeah but control freaks I don't know if that is true it could be but basically the main difference here are that internalizers are more they look inside they self-reflect they try to please people they try not to create disturbance they normally eat their feelings they normally don't feel that they deserve to get help they are they go unnoticed very easily because no one knows they need help or what they need because they don't express things you don't hear them right and externalizers they are more impulsive they are more external they are bigger they are more expressive and they are more about finding things outside and asking for what they need and so many times if you have a sibling that is one and you are the other most likely your parents are gonna pay more attention to externalizers than to internalizers because they are blowing things up because it becomes a manageable because they are always like creating a scene and they feel that they have to manage that the other one if it's an internalizer you don't even know what's going on inside and I think I'm an internalizer hundred percent down externalizers blame others and tell people to stop talking so they undo all the talking yeah so Trish that sounds like a narcissistic right but again I don't really like labels because labels it creates a box and I kind of like more the fluidity of these tendencies these behaviors this kind of personality traits or however you want to call it they can show up in many different ways and it can be true and it cannot be true depending on the specific situation okay but knowing this I am sure that what when I was reading this you guys were resonating with something you were seeing or that was me when I was little or that was my father when I was this age or my brother was behaving that way so you are starting to connect you are starting to become aware and hopefully you are going to start understanding dynamics and covering family systems and covering self roles that you may have created and covering these healing fantasies that you may have and we're gonna do an exercise on that we have a little bit of time left so I think I would like to do something that is going to help you hopefully find some further answers this book is really good because at the end of each chapter there is like an assessment that you can do and it's asking you questions and then you have to answer yes no and then with that information you are going to become more aware of where you may stand and it's also important to to do that assessment with a specific thing in mind a specific situation in mind I don't invite you to generalize okay because let me see if I can find because there were two and do you guys have any questions so far you want to comment anything does the book talk about a blend or situational factors in internalizing and externalizing Jan the book goes in depth with each one and each internalizer and externalizer it has a lot of things a lot of like sub chapters that you can read about it goes really really deep okay I don't have time to cover everything in one hour it's just impossible but yeah there are so many traits and what I like from the book is that she shares a specific story of a real-life person of a client that she had or a persona that embodies that kind of energy and then she shares a specific situations dynamics what happened how it unfolds so that you can see yourself and your family reflected in many of them and then you can oh that's me I never knew that that was blah blah blah and then that's an opportunity for you to become aware of it so yeah like the book has a lot of extra information but here for example externalized traits and it says approach to life okay and then I'm gonna read a few for you to get a sense of what this is about but it's it's beautiful it's beautiful let me see one thing one thing that felt and unstable to me growing up was seeing my dad swing between the two extremes constantly yeah yeah amazing that you are aware of that I also had a father that well I have a father that he was bipolar for a long time and I could see him going from extreme depression basically to extreme manic attack and it was very hard to see those two poles in just a matter of weeks sometimes so he has a few attacks that I witnessed and I can tell you was really hard to see him in those two poles especially the manic oh my god was so horrible to see yeah unfair to label everybody as a narcissist yeah it's a lot I I don't really like labels and and I like to call them tendencies because if you if you tell like if I were to go to my partner Samantha and I say Samantha you are a narcissist she will be really attacked I'm very offended but if I say hey Samantha I did notice a when you did that to me it felt to me that that was kind of like not nice and that was like it felt like a narcissistic like action or when you did that it made me feel XY and said if you can even remove the label all together just express how you felt when when that action happened that will be more healthy that will be more well-received than if you put a label on someone absolutely how does an internalizer deal with an external type personality that's a great question Trish then run Emilio I'm gonna run away so the book says that at the end of this chapter the rest of the book is all about if you are noticing things if you are understanding the concepts if you are curious and willing to work on this then keep reading so the book goes deeper into many many things and I'm sure that that answer is also that question is also answered but again there are so many different types of internalizers there are so many different types of externalizers there are people that they may have both mix up and depending on the situation they may show up as one way or the other so it's very difficult to answer that question generally speaking because as I say every situation is unique and different but yeah that's a great question and I would love if you ask that to the author and see what she says but yeah the book also says that if you are willing it's really nice for internalizers to become more external and for externalizers to become more internal because that way it's like the yin and yang that I was talking about it's like you are fusing both poles and instead of being on the extreme ideally you will be in the middle and ideally you will be able to to tap into both right depending on the situation you will say well this situation requires me to self-reflect you will go inward and you will honor that in some other situation you say no this situation I have to step up for myself I have to I have to express I cannot be quiet here so you will tap into that and and that is what we all have to learn right ideally tap into those two things and then you get control over how you use them because you are aware and conscious in my case for example I have a hard time taking up space in front of people and you may you may be saying Emilio but you are here in front of like 130 people yeah and I'm working on it I'm not saying that I cannot tap into it and I am tapping more and more but many times my tendency is like to hide I don't want to I am a an internalizer and sometimes I just want to be alone with my own things just learning just leave me alone I don't have to show up I don't have to hold space I don't have to do anything but when I feel like it I can do it so hopefully I'll get myself I get to the point where I will read the moment and I will decide this moment goes for 100% of my externalizer boom and I show up there like a monster like a dragon ah in a nice way right you know in a respectful but holding myself with structure with boundaries with passion with and then when I decide I don't have to do anything here I just go inside and I just enjoy that so ideally we will learn from both poles that's what the book is inviting us to do Christina says yes as a therapist I stay away from labels they are so constricting yeah it's hard to move from that place yeah Christina absolutely thank you for sharing that as a therapist labels take your power away when you are something you are something and you can change because that's what you are when you have a tendency when you have a habit when you have a yeah a tendency I will say then you can change that tendency and that's why my latest course about procrastination I talk about this I don't want you to call yourself I am a procrastinator just say I have a procrastination tendency in this area of my life and I am willing to look at it and change it but you are not a procrastinator you may procrastinate sometimes and the same happens with everything in mental health right I really stay away from labels too so thank you for sharing that yeah exactly they become your story absolutely guys this is I read a book called the power of story and I did a life on it and the book talks about how powerful your story the story that you are telling yourself is because it becomes your reality so that's why it's so important to notice how you talk to yourself and we all have narcissistic traits absolutely T depending on the situation we all have everything inside of us and depending on the situation the situation is going to evoke something from us consciously or unconsciously so many times we may react impulsively to something some of the times we may do it consciously but yeah many things many tendencies many labels as you want to call it can show up from us and our job is to become aware of them I realize this is off topic but I am intrigued by your background is that a bit at the top of the ladder yeah yeah this is a I am doing it before COVID we build this bunkie this is in the backyard of our home and this is like a room and it has a bed up there and then I use this as a shelf now but yeah I can go up and I can sleep up there so it's like a little cabin outside of the house so the true definition of a narcissistic is somebody who cannot change they are not tendencies it's a full-blown personality disorder Juliet it makes sense that you believe that and it makes us that in some cases it may be very extreme but from what I know from what I have experienced with labels like schizophrenia my sister has schizophrenia paranoid bipolar my father is bipolar and I have been surrounded with mental health pretty much my entire life and I can tell you that that for me that is not my ex that is not my experience that is not truth for me I choose not to believe that that is my own personal choice okay that's something that you are right or wrong and it makes sense that in some cases it may be very extreme I'm very but I want to believe that if someone was to do something about it they can do something about it and I that's what I want to believe that's what I choose I would like to gently add that labels can sometimes be very helpful finding support groups and other people to help process what we are going through yeah that is absolutely true you can relate it's easy to relate with others if you have a specific label you can find people alike one cannot self-reflect is where conflict resides throwing that in amazing so so we have five minutes left you guys wanna keep having questions or you want me to read some of the sentences that the book has about externalized traits for example we can just keep chatting for the last five minutes if you are if you guys want to actually this one is better identifying your healing fantasy and role self I think this will be more powerful so these are questions for you to help identify your healing fantasy and the role self that you may have created when you were little okay so I'm gonna read the sentences and then there is a blank space where you will fill it in with with your experience okay so for example I wish other people were more why is it so hard for people to for a change I would love someone to treat me like maybe one of these days I will find someone who will blank in an ideal world with good people other people would blank space I try hard to be the main reason people like me is because I other people don't appreciate how much I I always have to be the one who I have tried to be the kind of person who so when you complete these sentences they are going to give you a lot of really good information about both the healing fantasy that you may have created and are living by or are expecting for or the self role that you embody that you put on yourself when you were little so that you could get attention care being seen and being engaged emotionally so this is just one example of some of the exercises that the book has inside that is so powerful it's just such a nice way to find more things inside of you that maybe you won't get from just reading the book great sentences for reflection yeah it is not reasonable to carry other people's burdens or how they process or deal with situations yeah Trish that that is that is true I mean you can you can support people but it is not fair to ask them to yeah for things that you need all the time right that this is not reasonable that's why it's important to to do the work to heal to become whole to become a needy and this takes time okay so I'm not saying that we're gonna do this and we're gonna be completely whole and unneedy but at least if there is a willingness to keep doing the work if there is a willingness to keep being curious if there is a willingness to listen to the people you love when they are sharing something with you if you even are proactive and you ask them hey how do you see me is there anything I do that maybe bothers you like is there anything that you notice from the outside I do this a lot with my friends and people I love I sometimes I ask them hey can you be completely honest with me and from the outside what do you see because sometimes I may be completely blind to it and I tell them like I am ready to receive the good the bad and the ugly honestly be honest I will appreciate your honesty and we do this in our man circle too when I go to the man circle sometimes we do that I one person will ask a question and then everybody will say from the outside I see this in you I see this in you I see this in you and you have to be willing to receive that but which book is this I later so manja the book is called adult children of emotionally immature parents okay I appreciate your work here on inside timer Emilio thank you so much Lorette well guys thank you so much for being here I hope that you enjoyed this session as much as you could because I know it's a really hard session I know it's very emotional and I know it must be really bad for you thank you guys so much I am seeing messages that no sound so thank you so much I hope that you guys can join me next life and let's just do a little bit of smudge okay thank you so much guys