Music Is The 5th Element
James Forest got his first electric guitar from his dad at the tender age of Eight. Going steady with his passion for creating and playing music, describing the world around him through his songs for at least 20 years, he has seen how the music industry has changed to a degree of the impossibility of earning good money from publishing pieces. But that has not stopped him. He is a true artist and musician who is devoted to his work. Meet him behind the scenes and listen to how Alexandra and James interweave their knowledge about the divine, music, and Ayurveda.
Transcript
Welcome back to How to Travel in a Journey on my show.
My name is Alexandra and this is James from Canada,
James Forrest,
Musician in Canada.
Where are you currently?
Well,
I'm in a little really small town which is called Saint-Mathieu-des-Bac,
But it's a two-hour drive north of Montreal,
Yeah.
North of Montreal.
Oh,
Setting you deep into the nature part of it,
Right?
Yeah,
Exactly in the middle of the beautiful pines and spruce and snowy countryside.
Yeah,
It's nice.
Yeah.
James,
I want to talk to you about your music today because to me this music is different to what I know from folk music.
I mean,
We do have similar tastes when it comes to folk music as it turned out.
But,
You know,
Like there's something spherical in your music and the way kind of you make the air vibrate with your music.
That's what it feels like to me.
And I know there is a technique behind it and it's probably quite commonly known,
But to me it wasn't when I heard it first.
Well,
I tried to just stay connected to like the four elements,
You know,
The feet,
The music,
The feet,
Like the silence,
Which feeds the music.
And I don't know,
It's really hard to put it into words,
But music,
It's really much more than just like some strings,
Like vibrating,
It has to come like straight from the source.
And I guess that what makes the difference when you play it and when you hear it.
So yeah.
So what are the four elements for you?
I would say water,
Fire,
Wind and earth.
Ah,
OK.
Yeah,
We talk about five because we also mentioned space.
And that's what I kind of feel like,
You know,
Like because in space everything can move and exist.
Maybe that's maybe that's why the music like like makes the fifth one,
You know what I mean?
Like it's the space.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So to you,
The music makes sense,
Because what I remember is and maybe you'll be willing to share this,
You know,
Like when you told me about how you became,
You know,
How you learned the guitar,
It was like you felt,
You know,
You didn't want to play the guitar.
Initially,
Your father gave you one.
Right.
Can you talk a little bit about it?
It was this whole thing about feeling not connected to the instrument and then gotten bored.
Wasn't it something like that?
If you can elaborate on that a little.
Yeah,
But this is not true because now,
Actually,
I always wanted to play the guitar.
Ah,
OK.
So I don't know,
Maybe we'll get that something different.
But anyway,
When I was like eight years old,
Yeah,
I had my first electric guitar and it was which was my my father's first guitar back in the day.
So,
Yeah,
Maybe at the beginning,
It was like,
What am I going to do with that?
You know,
I didn't feel the connections like right away,
But it was standing there and you know,
It just was looking at me all the time and.
I just waited for the right moment to pick it up and then it was like stayed with me forever.
But but yeah,
Nobody really like forced me to play.
You know,
It was just like they were not like you have to play the guitar or like you have to play music or you have to do this or that.
It was just like.
It's there,
If you feel the call,
You just pick it up and it might bring you to some great places,
You know,
Like so that's why actually I got to play the guitar.
Man,
When I realized that I could play,
I was like.
It changed my life forever and it's still still I'm still grateful for that every every day.
I mean,
To me,
I've tried to play the guitar so many times,
You know,
And I love the guitar itself.
But it's like there's this blockage when I come to it.
Like it's almost I know that I can listen to music and intuitively if you're giving the chords,
I know when to switch the chords.
But anything beyond that is almost too much like,
You know,
Where does that come from that the instrument talks to you?
It almost feels like a conversation between the two of you,
You know,
Like the guitar and you,
You have a conversation.
I don't know where you got that from.
Is that something that's yeah.
And when I play guitar or piano,
Whatever,
I don't think and this is for me the.
Like the purpose of being is not thinking,
Just being right,
So we all have different outputs to do that,
Like some people just like go crazy,
Like in extreme sports or blah,
Blah,
Blah or some people,
You know,
Whatever.
But I guess you have to find your way of stop thinking for a while.
Me,
Music brings me that.
So,
Yeah,
So that's why it creates a conversation,
Because you're really like open and ready for whatever.
So it's that's why.
Yeah,
It's just like I'm wondering,
You know,
Like how you did it always feel that free to you?
Because to me,
It's almost like there is,
You know,
It's not so natural to me.
And a lot of people have that same encounter with an instrument.
You know,
It's not like it wants to have that.
Is that how was that for you exactly,
If you can describe it more?
Yes,
Because first I had to practice a lot,
You know,
And get to know the instrument well.
You know,
I played like when I was,
I don't know,
12 or 14,
Like I played like five to six hours every day,
Like till I was,
I don't know,
For like 15 years.
You know what I mean?
I was just playing all the time.
And so the big part of it is like once you know the instrument really well,
It's to to like reverse it,
Try to like forget everything you learn,
You know,
And once you forget,
Then you can you have your reference,
You have like,
You know,
Your fingers know what to do.
You don't have to think about it.
But your mind and like your spirit try to connect with that like other like strong force.
And then this was going to guide your fingers like kind of.
Yeah,
That's what I wanted to ask you next,
You know,
Like where is the inspiration for the different songs,
Where do they come from for you?
Wow,
That's a good question.
I mean,
It changes a lot,
But.
Movement,
You know,
Motion,
Moving like.
It's funny because I've been staying at home for the last,
Mostly for the last two years,
Like three years,
Because we all know why.
But so I haven't moved a lot.
I haven't traveled.
I just like stay home and build something like nice and comfortable.
And but still like music is different now,
You know,
It feels more.
I wouldn't say grounded,
I would say more calm,
You know,
It's not like fed with many different elements of the world.
It's just like pretty chill.
So I guess that movement and new places,
New cultures,
New people,
New things,
That's what really feed for me,
That would feed the music and like create space for new songs.
You know?
Yeah,
Yeah,
Yeah.
You seem to be very grounded compared to like,
You know,
I mean,
We've met a few times and I remember you from being this light being,
You know,
In all sorts of ways,
You know,
Very kind of through and through light,
But also connected with light to me.
And and so what I'm seeing now today as we come into this conversation is somebody completely different.
So maybe stabilizing yourself where you are was also helpful for you to,
You know.
Well,
I mean,
One day at a time is just I'm not trying to change things.
I'm just like,
You know,
Life kind of put me here in a nice place in the forest.
And,
You know,
I got a house and everything is a little bit different because I used to travel a lot.
I used to go see my kids and my friends all over the world all the time.
But because of covid and all the really weird restrictions that we had here in Canada for so long,
It's just like you have to still keep going and do your things,
But in different ways.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's on higher spheres.
You know,
Which is all right.
You know,
I still play music all the time.
And but I'm not really.
I do it for another reason and not for like writing stuff or for like producing stuff or just like for the result of it,
Just for the moment,
Improvising and like going to some spheres I want to go to,
Like makes me feel sane.
Wow.
Wow.
This is such a great connection or,
You know,
Not even connection,
But even the serendipity of what I'm experiencing,
You know,
Like if I let go of all my goals,
You know,
Do I want to reach people with what I do or do I do it because I enjoy it?
I enjoy these conversations with other people.
And so totally we're talking about presence to me.
That is what it is.
You know,
So there is only here and now.
There is no future,
Really.
And there is no past as such.
But we only have this moment.
So that's it.
And what you make of it is like actually the most important.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
Yeah.
But you got opportunities.
Is that right?
I mean,
Like your music was,
You know,
I know that you have been you had to write music for movies or something,
Didn't you?
Yeah.
I'm still doing that all the time.
Yeah.
Oh,
OK.
So and you had bigger opportunities by labels,
But you didn't feel called to kind of get under a contract.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
What does that mean to you?
Well,
I mean,
This is each case is a little different because now I've got.
How can I say it's always good to work with people,
Right?
So it's always good to have a team that works.
I wouldn't say for you,
I would say with you.
You know?
Yeah.
So now I've got a nice like team.
I don't have a label for the music,
But I got some people taking care of like like booking the shows and everything that goes with like the concert spaces.
Right.
Which is nice to have.
But well,
I don't know.
The music business now is really weird.
You know,
It's really if if you just I don't know where to start.
It's just like so.
If you want to make a living out of like a touring musician,
Let's say,
Yes,
You have to let go of everything else,
You know,
Yeah,
It's just you have to let go of everything you just like live on the road with your guitar and travel and sing,
Which is what I did for such a long time,
Which was great.
But that's why I like with Covid and stuff,
It changed,
You know?
Yeah.
So now I found myself.
Doing some other stuff,
You know,
Just like having some wearing some other hats,
You know,
Producing albums for other people and just like producing music for,
You know,
So.
Yeah.
But I haven't signed any contract with like music labels because I want to own my rights,
You know,
I want to have my,
You know,
I don't want other people to own my music,
Which is for me,
It didn't be good in the last year,
Actually,
You know,
Just yeah.
What is the difference?
I mean,
I I totally we hear this stereotype,
You know,
You got to own your music.
And I know a few stories through other friends in Ireland,
You know,
There's lots of musicians in Ireland and you always kind of have a musician friend and people get picked up with their band and then kind of ask and then they buy them and pull their music off the market.
But what is your or what is the experience we're talking about coming to a huge label,
Almost like the dream for the outside eye,
You know,
Like if you look at aspiring artists,
They always think they need to be found by a big label.
What is what's happening in the music industry from your perspective?
Obviously,
I think that.
These days are over,
Like I think like.
Anyway,
Labels now are not they are not looking for like the new star,
You know,
It's not happening anymore.
You know,
Yeah,
I think I think it's just like they're having a hard time just like.
Putting the people that the artists,
They they sign like on the road and with some nice contracts and stuff,
So they play it really,
Really safe,
You know,
So unless you don't have a really massive it,
You know,
They never gonna come looking for you or it's.
Yeah.
The music business changed really a lot.
Wow.
I just realized I've been doing that for the last 20 years.
It's a lot.
And it changed.
It changed.
But,
You know,
With some people complain about like the streaming services,
But it's also a great tool.
It just doesn't pay well,
But it really helps that,
You know,
People all over the world that get to know your music and that's cool,
You know,
So.
Yeah,
And the label don't I mean,
I don't know,
We have we would have to talk with like the headmaster of Sony Music,
He would tell us more about it,
But yeah,
I don't know.
I think we're on this cusp or the brink of something that I call would like to call liberation or freedom.
You know,
When you were talking about the change of the industry is.
Almost like music has to come back to what it's what it really means to people beyond the success and the money,
I mean,
We went to this we went to the show with our daughter and this guy,
He was super depressed,
You know,
Like I mean,
You can tell from his songs he's like super depressed,
But also totally into himself,
You know,
And he's about 18 and he's running one show after the other in Germany.
And it's all about like what he looks like,
You know,
He knows how to dress and then queuing for the attention.
And the weirdest thing happened at the concert.
We went with her because she's under eight,
You know,
And we needed to go along.
And that was fun as well.
But,
You know,
Everybody was just standing there and filming and also nobody was jumping or dancing or just being with the event,
You know,
It was just also devoid of the true emotions that we can feel and experience with music.
And on the other hand side,
You know,
I like the Indian classical singing.
And when you go to the to these things,
They are so,
You know,
They really take you into a form of ecstasy when you just share with a musician and it's not a lot of money.
Usually you pay to go and see them and it's not a big label behind them.
And you just go and you sit with the music as a message from the divine,
So to speak.
Yeah,
Right.
That's yeah.
Yeah,
Because there's a big difference between music and entertainment,
You know.
Yeah.
And this is sometimes what people don't get.
But if you go like to get like to go to see a good show,
To get entertained and feel good and have fun,
That's fine.
It's really I love doing that sometimes.
But if you go to to concert to listen to some music that will take you to some higher places and stuff,
If you just sit,
Close your eyes,
Relax and let the music take you somewhere.
That's what I'm in for,
You know.
Yeah,
That's what I mean.
Yeah,
That's what I mean.
And I think that is and you're right,
You know,
I'm not saying that entertainment will disease,
But I think like there's a lot of musicians who are looking for this original connection with music again.
Yeah,
Yeah,
Yeah,
Yeah,
Totally.
I feel that,
Too.
Yeah,
Yeah.
So that was a little bit also what I wanted to talk to you about,
This kind of idea of what does this journey for you mean?
You know,
Like the journey as a musician internally,
As much as you talked about that you've been traveling and if you follow James on his YouTube channel,
You can see like,
You know,
There's little nice clips for you with you in different countries and you get a feel for exactly how you kind of absorb the the environment or how you transform it into your music.
But what is it like you as the involved person now being on this call?
You know,
What is it like for you to to do this?
Not only the external journey,
But also the inner journey,
You know,
Like just to do the traveling.
But what is it?
Yeah,
Actually,
It's funny because one wouldn't go without the other.
Right.
Yeah.
So.
That's it's a little bit like I said before,
Like you need like external things.
To feed inner things,
Maybe could go the other way around,
But I don't think so.
So,
I mean,
I was lucky to to travel a lot,
You know,
When I was starting,
Like when I was 17,
I started to I just,
You know,
For like anyway.
So.
I get I guess that gave me so many different way of seeing,
Seeing life,
Seeing seeing people,
Seeing like.
What?
I mean,
What really matters change from one country to another,
And.
It's hard to put that into music,
But once you've seen all that stuff and you find yourself alone in a room.
And you want to find like find out what all that thing,
All that stuff mean,
You just sit down and play your guitar,
Play your piano and try to connect that like on some higher spheres with some music.
And I guess that process is really related to like all the like.
The travel and like the places you've been before and like this life or your past life or whatever,
But.
So I don't know.
I keep traveling every day when I just sit down and breathe,
You know,
And play music.
Maybe now that's what I have to do.
And,
You know,
Because I didn't go to many places in the last few years,
You know,
So I'm just trying to.
To travel differently,
You know,
But if it feeds your heart,
You know,
I mean.
I love it,
James,
And that's what I mean,
You know,
Like as we get older and that's something that a lot of us don't take into account,
You know,
Like that aging process is also a grounding process and in itself processing,
Isn't it?
And then,
You know,
Like you notice everything is inside of you already.
And you can almost get new flavors out of yourself without needing to have the outside flavors.
And that's what I.
Exactly.
Yeah,
Yeah.
Yeah,
I agree to that.
But for sure,
You know.
Yesterday,
I found a mini disc recorder I was traveling with like 15 years ago,
And it was filled with like sounds and recordings from like India,
Pakistan,
Bangladesh,
Whatever.
And I was listening to those recordings,
And I was like,
Wow,
How lucky I was,
You know,
Just to see those places,
To meet those people when the planet was not too crazy,
You know,
Like it was really nice.
I'm still so grateful for it every day.
And it will always as it fed my music,
Then it still feeds it now,
You know,
And not only my music,
But my inner self,
My me,
You know.
Yeah,
Exactly.
Exactly.
I know you made a record once with a mutual friend who is into Kirtan,
You know,
And in Kirtan,
You do repeat the words a lot.
It's like,
I remember the two of us making a little joke about it,
You know,
Like,
Why do we have to repeat the words so many times?
But what it brought me to is also to listen to some more famous,
You know,
Kirtan singers,
But one of them is Krishna Das.
And what he talks about is exactly what you talk about,
You know,
Like,
He doesn't care for the money,
Nor the touring,
Nor the sharing in itself,
But he does the music to survive,
You know,
Like,
And you mentioned something similar right in the beginning.
And that's kind of feeding your soul almost,
Right?
Definitely.
That's all about it,
You know?
Yeah.
I'm surrounded with material things,
You know,
I've got many,
Like too many,
Too many things,
You know,
Like thousands of records and guitars and synthesizer and blah,
Blah,
Blah,
A house and a car and I've got all that stuff.
Yeah.
But that doesn't make me happy at all,
You know,
You know,
Just,
You know,
I know it,
I feel it,
I see it.
When I just have a simple whatever guitar or like,
And I feel light,
You know,
I feel light,
I'm traveling,
I'm just walking around,
I have my guitar,
I don't need really much more,
You know,
And this is the power of music,
You know,
This is the power of simplicity,
You know?
Yeah,
Exactly.
That's the power of simplicity.
So any maybe final words or what you want to share with people who are listening to this to maybe get inspired or kind of trying to make their own way into this inner journeying or with music?
Is there anything like wisdom?
Yeah,
Wisdom.
I don't know,
What can I share?
Maybe nothing.
No,
No,
But I've got so many things to share.
But I mean,
Really?
Keep sharing.
Funny,
Because like,
Every morning,
I wake up,
I light some candles,
And I just sit down at the piano and see what comes up,
You know,
Like,
Sometimes it brings me to some really,
Really nice place.
And I'm feeling like,
Good state of mind,
I'm ready to like,
Start the day,
Like,
Happily and just with joy and hope.
And sometimes,
You know,
I start playing the piano.
And I already have this like,
Stream of weird thoughts,
Like,
Coming in,
Coming out,
Going and,
And then I decide to stop,
Because I'm just gonna do other things and do like my small little things that don't really matter in the end.
Yeah.
But what I want to say is that sometimes,
You should just keep doing it.
And then these thoughts will eventually go,
You know?
Yeah,
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
It's just like,
Keep doing it.
Keep doing what you love and just breathe in.
Yeah.
Don't let like,
Some weird,
Stupid little things that don't matter change your state of mind,
You know?
Talking to myself.
Yeah,
I know.
So that's what I do most of the time.
But I feel the same.
And at the same time,
As I'm aging,
Like you,
You know,
I've done so many disciplines and practices and,
You know,
Going through them again and again,
Like religiously,
Until I they,
They are devoid of really what I'm trying to do,
You know,
Be connected with myself and something bigger,
You know,
So I also find it important to let go and say like,
Oh,
Today,
This is not the way I can connect.
So let me just find maybe comfort.
Because we talked about this recently in my group,
And I have a group that I kind of teach and we talked about the fact that the tip of the tongue,
The sweet taste,
You know,
In life,
Live at the tip of the tongue.
And when you saturate the front of the tongue,
Like if you have enough sweet,
All the other tastes,
You know,
Salty,
Astringent,
Pungent,
And whatever you're looking for bitter,
They all suddenly can live.
But if you haven't pleased the front of the tongue,
So to speak,
You know,
Then sometimes it's kind of hard to let everything else be in balance in the back.
So in the same way,
I feel that with the practices,
You know,
That you if you feel like the piano playing in your case,
And for me,
Sometimes it's something different,
You know,
Like a workout,
Or maybe also singing or chanting or something like that is not connecting me into the sweetness that we experience,
You know,
Like that kind of stream of consciousness.
Then maybe something else needs to happen.
Well,
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because sometimes we feel like our images of ourselves,
You know,
And we are much more than than what we do.
You know,
We,
We,
We are like,
Complete,
Just by being.
And that's,
That's it.
But this is really hard to.
Yeah.
You know,
To get it really.
Yeah.
Because,
You know,
You see yourself,
I see myself as a musician as a writer as whatever.
But even if I wouldn't do these things,
I would still be myself.
You would.
I love it.
I love it.
It's exactly that,
You know,
That kind of making the role that we are so,
So big and important that,
You know,
When we don't,
When we're not in this role,
We doubt our connection to the world and to ourselves in the first place.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
Where do you get this from?
I mean,
Like a lot of people do study,
As we know,
The spiritual path and the yoga.
Is this all coming through music for you?
These insights?
No,
I'm walking in the forest every morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's funny,
But it's a big difference for me.
Like,
I mean,
It's funny,
Yesterday I was at my friend's house and he said,
Everybody's so stressed out these days,
You know,
Like he has a restaurant,
He's the chef and he's really,
He's a really good friend of mine.
And so he said,
I went to see the doctor yesterday with my daughter because we felt like a little stressed out and blah,
Blah,
Blah.
And the doctor,
She just said,
Hey,
You guys should go for like a walk in the forest every morning,
Like half an hour.
But she's cool.
You know,
Who does that?
You know,
Like she's a really good doctor.
She is absolutely amazing.
Yeah.
But that's exactly what we need.
You know,
This and I feel it,
You know,
When I walk in the forest,
Wherever,
But not in the city,
But,
You know,
Like even in the city,
Whatever.
But if you just go out,
Walk,
It takes a while,
You know,
15,
20 minutes,
Half an hour.
But after like really a while,
Okay,
That's it.
You know,
You feel connected to what surrounds you.
But that it works for me.
It doesn't mean it really works for me,
But I'm lucky enough to be living in that beautiful,
You know,
Natural place.
But I think it works for so many people,
You know,
I mean,
You just have to look online what people are offering,
You know,
And all this kind of,
They give it fancy names like bathing in the woods and all that,
You know.
It's just our nature and movement is our nature too.
I mean,
You got them right.
