Transforming Grief - Weekly Energy Boost

Grief and sadness are part of the human experience. These overwhelming and difficult emotions serve as an opportunity for immense spiritual growth. In this episode, we’re joined by trauma-informed psychotherapist Karen Adler, MSW, LCSW to discuss how we can approach grief, loss, and the process of healing from a spiritual perspective.

Transcript

Good morning,

Everyone.

Good evening,

Good afternoon,

Wherever you are,

And welcome to the Weekly Energy Boost.

My name is Ali Shava,

And I'm here this morning with David and a previous guest we've had on an episode earlier in 2020.

Karen Adler is joining us this morning.

We are here to talk about a subject that we've had slated on our calendar for quite a while,

And it just kept getting bumped and bumped and bumped and bumped.

And last night,

I was thinking about the show and making sure that I have everything in line,

And the show,

Of course,

Is about transforming grief.

And I'm sitting here in bed last night before I go to sleep,

And I'm thinking,

Wait a second,

We pushed this show back maybe two,

Three times.

And this week's energy is absolutely in line with what we're going to talk about today,

Because the Kabbalists teach about this week,

More than any week of the year,

We have the ability to connect to the story of our soul,

To the journey of our soul,

To the history and the past of our soul.

And all week we're going to be,

Whether we're picking up on it or not is another story,

But the universe is going to be broadcasting clues for us this entire week.

And looking at those clues,

Recognizing,

Wow,

I'm feeling abandoned right now or left out.

This is a past life connection.

Oh,

Somebody humiliated me in front of a large group of people.

This is an indication of something that I have experienced in lifetimes,

And I have the opportunity to not only sit with it,

But to work through it,

And then what we call basically correct or heal that aspect of my tikkun.

So we couldn't have picked a more perfect week to have Karen here with us.

Last time we had Karen,

It was one of our most popular shows.

Absolutely.

There were- It's one of those shows that ends and you want it to keep going for a couple more hours.

Well,

That was the whole thing.

So since August of last year,

I've been trying to,

Obviously 2020 was a year of loss for everyone.

I don't know a single person who did not know someone who left the physical world.

David and I,

We went through the loss of our teacher.

Again,

I don't want to say that this is all about me,

But my kids lost a grandparent last week.

My ex's father passed away and watching them deal with what they're dealing with,

With all the spiritual knowledge that they have.

Knowledge is one thing,

Experience is another.

And that's really what we're here to talk about today,

To marry the knowledge with the experience.

And I think for our audience,

We're not just focusing on death,

Right?

Because grief takes on many shapes and forms.

And I think a lot of people listening,

Even if you think that maybe you're not sure how this show today is going to apply to you,

You'll be surprised because you already have relationships with people who are going through it.

You're going to be able to understand how to communicate with them better,

Which I think is as powerful as if you're trying to unravel or heal different aspects of pain within yourself.

So the show today is going to have many different points of relevancy for people who are listening.

And not only,

By the way,

Not only is the show precipitated by the pandemic,

Like it's not simply about the pandemic.

I personally know more people who left the physical reality in the past year because of other reasons,

Because of old age,

Because of accidents,

Because of cancer.

I know more people that passed away not because of COVID than I do know people who passed away because of COVID.

So there was a mass exodus of souls this year that I guess since the Spanish flu,

We didn't have.

Obviously,

I mean,

I don't want to poke fun at it,

But we have to be able to look at it.

We can't pretend it wasn't something,

There isn't something on a soul level,

Cellular level happening to humanity.

And that's why we have Karen here with us.

There is so much opportunity in grief and in allowing ourselves to go through that process.

I don't even know where to begin.

Well,

You know,

It's interesting because I did the show six months ago and we kind of ended it talking about grief.

And then,

You know,

It's been,

It's what,

How many deaths have there been since that six months period?

And people have died,

Like you said,

From the pandemic.

And then it gets complicated with,

With not being able to go to funerals and losing people from other things and other tragedies,

You know,

So it just gets so complicated.

And yet,

You know,

That's what grief's job is.

Grief's job is to blow up our lives as they are,

You know,

And kind of put us back together different.

Yeah,

So what is the point?

Because I'm looking at some of the notes that actually we got sent before the show and each point here is its own session.

But some of the points that you wrote,

You wrote,

Our bodies are hardwired for survival.

And I think this is all going to,

This is all innately stuff we probably know,

But as you hear it,

You'll,

It's going to revive some inspiration.

Our bodies are hardwired for survival.

You wrote,

Grief lives in the same place the heart does.

So grief is love's conjoined to end.

It lives in the body,

Right?

Like it's a bodily experience.

Someone described it as reverse when you give birth,

You know,

It's like the opposite.

It's the same.

It's like a pushing out,

Right?

It lives in the body,

But it dwells in the heart.

So how does a person know they're going through grief?

Let's start there because some people will might be in denial about it.

Or some people won't know really how to describe it or if that's what they're going through.

I mean,

I'm hoping the show helps people identify that they're grieving because people don't always know they're grieving.

They don't always know they're grieving.

Sometimes they're angry.

Sometimes they're,

You know,

Numb.

Whatever their experience,

That's why,

You know,

Talking about emotions is so important.

And I use a perspective that's both spiritual because of,

You know,

My,

My,

Uh,

My Kabbalah education.

And it's also emotional,

But from the body because it lives in the body.

So how do you know you're grieving?

Well,

When you start to go in and explore where you're experiencing discomfort in the body,

It begins to start to uncover all trauma has grief in it.

All trauma has grief,

But not all grief is traumatic.

That looks so let's stop there.

Let's stop there.

Repeat and explain,

Because I think that,

That even short of losing a loved one or a person from our lives,

People have lost jobs,

Have lost meaning,

Have lost connection.

And the grief is everywhere.

Say that again.

Grief,

Grief,

Grief,

All trauma has grief within it.

All trauma has grief within it,

But not all grief is traumatic.

There's some lovely exits,

Right?

They're not traumatic.

They're meaningful and beautiful.

And uh,

But,

But,

But when you have a trauma,

You lose something.

You might even be losing your innocence.

That's the definition that we're ascribing here to trauma.

Trauma is the loss of something.

Yeah.

Well,

Trauma is sort of the holding of,

You know,

Something happens and you restrict,

Right?

You don't,

And you go into your fight,

Flight,

Freeze,

You know,

Like,

That's why the body's hardwired for survival.

Anytime our bodies are threatened in any way,

Any time our wellbeing is threatened,

We go into that,

That stress cycle,

Right?

Fight,

Flight,

Freeze,

Discharge.

And that moment,

It's safe to say that I've gone through a traumatic experience.

If I experience a fight,

Flight,

Freeze moment,

Which is also identified by stress,

I have now experienced a traumatic moment,

Which means no matter what,

There's some level of grief,

Whether I'm conscious of that or not.

And I think that's important for people to know.

Yeah,

Exactly.

So we're having fight,

Flight,

Freeze moments every 27 minutes in our lives.

You know,

We're designed for that.

It's great.

We're designed for that.

That's where our bodies are designed for.

What we're not designed for,

To be prolonged and ongoing endlessly for a year,

Right?

And for multiple things to happen within that time.

That's what we're not designed for.

That's why we start to hold on and we begin to bypass the trauma,

Go into our minds just to get by,

And then we're experiencing all these sensations.

Well,

I want to say something and I want each of us will have a thought about this.

We intimately are involved in the lives of many people,

Right?

So it's not like we understand our own lives,

Our own family,

But we're also privy to what everyone,

A lot of other people are going through.

People open up to us about their pain,

Their struggle,

Their frustration,

The chaos,

The negativity,

Whatever it is.

And truth be told,

There has been no difference in what I've heard from people pre-pandemic or even now.

What do I mean by that?

The same degree of pain,

Frustration,

And trauma that people have been going through,

They've always been going through it.

I think what I've noticed is the only difference is that before the pandemic,

People had the same amount of challenges,

Maybe even more truthfully.

People were going through even more challenges before,

But we all found ways to escape from the pain,

To cope with the pain,

To get used to the pain because we all had our escapes and we had our instant gratification and we all had our things on the side.

And in my mind,

What the pandemic did besides shuffle the deck a little bit is it started to strip us of the escapism in many ways.

So that's why it's in our face.

But I'm saying that because I'm talking to students pre and during.

So I'm like,

Well,

Nothing's the same,

Same financial issues,

Just different package,

Same relationship issues,

Different package,

Same everything,

Just different package.

The difference is it's more intense now because they don't have the outlets they used to have.

Right.

And I'm having greater breakthroughs with clients that I wouldn't have before the pandemic.

So it's- Ah,

Because they don't have their crutches anymore.

That's right.

And it's useful in some ways,

But with grief,

Grief needs a witness to move.

It must have a witness.

Someone must be acknowledging it and you need,

It needs to be expressed.

So if you don't have someone to talk to,

That's the problem with the isolation that it's causing for some people.

They're trying to,

To grieve themselves inside because grief is an internal process.

Mourning is the expression.

It's a,

It's outside.

Grief is inside.

Mourning is outside.

And it's those mourning,

The mourning rituals that assist in the processing of the grief.

That's the way,

Only way to move grief.

So then people get stuck in grief.

You know,

When I look at,

You know,

The,

The there's protests,

Which is kind of,

You know,

If you think about in terms of grief,

You know,

Anger,

The anger part is like a protest against losing the loved one.

It's a,

It's a protest.

You're mad about it,

You know?

When I look at,

You know,

What's happening in the world and you see people protesting and then it breaks into violence,

Right?

And the anger part to me,

I'm thinking trauma.

There's grief there.

Those people need to be dealing with some issues because they're,

They're,

They're taking the,

That's when you know,

There's something else going on,

Right?

There's trauma there.

There's something that isn't being looked at because that anger is going too far.

It's going,

It's going into violence.

So when anger becomes a violence,

It's just that I haven't found a way to,

To deal with the,

The,

The trauma.

Probably stuck in a phase of grief somewhere.

That's one of the phases of grief.

Can you take us through the phases of grief,

Karen?

Sure.

Denial is the first one.

And that's when you,

You just can't believe it.

You just,

You know,

You don't accept it.

You can't believe it.

You know,

You may even go looking for the person.

You say things like,

I don't,

I can't believe it.

And you know,

It's purpose,

Purpose is really,

You know,

Shock and denial are really too,

You know,

Your,

Your,

Your central nervous system is overwhelmed by what you're losing.

And so it just gives it a chance to,

To,

To get,

To get inputted,

You know,

It's just,

It's too much,

You're overwhelmed.

And so it has a good purpose.

It's when you get stuck in the denial that it can be a problem,

Right?

Then there's anger and there's appropriate anger.

You know,

I protest,

I am not okay with,

You know,

One of my very dear friends and she did give me permission to talk about her story.

She tragically lost her son a couple of months ago and his best friend in a car accident.

And when I checked in on her,

She sent me an emoji of the,

Of the Incredible Hulk.

Like,

You know,

Like,

She was furious.

Well,

Why wouldn't you be furious?

Right?

Normal.

People need to understand grief is normal.

And these phases,

They're not prescriptive.

They,

They go in and out their phases,

But they're not like a one way.

They're not linear.

They're not linear.

They're not in there.

Yeah,

They're,

But they're,

But they're there.

They've been studied by Elizabeth Cooper Ross.

She's the one who developed them.

And David Kessler kind of added one with the,

With the permission of the family.

So there is these,

They do these show,

They show up these,

These phases do show up with it,

With all the emotions within them.

Right?

So you have anger,

Then you have bargaining and that's the,

If only and what ifs,

You know,

If only I had like not told him to go out,

You know,

You know,

What if I could have,

You know it would have been me instead of him,

You know,

All of these things you can really get,

You can get stuck in there.

Right.

It's the hardest one really to deal with because it's like,

You've left someone at the scene of the accident.

You know,

They were there trying to ensure everyone here can relate to that where you run through your mind,

You know,

What you could have done,

You should have done.

What could have said and didn't say and would say if given the opportunity.

No,

And even my dad passed away and he sort of had a graceful end,

But I was at the hospital visiting him and I was in a hurry because I had something else I was doing and I would read to him and then,

But I like cut it short,

You know,

And he wasn't,

To me,

He wasn't dying at that point,

But he,

You know,

He was having a procedure the next day,

But I was in a big hurry and I took off and about an hour later he had died.

And so I find myself going back there to like,

Oh,

I would have stayed longer.

I would have,

You know,

I could have caught whatever,

You know,

You get,

You can get yourself stuck in that.

So you know,

We all do that.

And then depression.

You know,

Your heart's broken.

It's normal.

You're sad.

And,

You know,

The morning part of that would be to cry,

Right?

We were born crying.

We need to cry,

You know,

Cries,

You know,

Crying,

You know,

Cleanses the soul.

You know,

Babies know how to cry,

Cry their grief teachers.

You know,

They cry with their whole body.

When I'm working with somebody,

We're crying from the body,

We're getting all into the snot and everything.

You really,

That's what you need in grief.

That's what helps me.

That's powerful.

The fact that the baby's crying is they're just releasing while the adults wouldn't cry.

This is great.

This is something we also spoke about in the previous episode that society,

At least American society sort of teaches us to shh.

You know,

When our babies cry,

We tell them shh,

And we sort of educate them over time to keep their emotions quiet and private and in the closet.

And it's not good for the body.

And it's not good for the processing of emotions.

That's the work that Karen does is centered on releasing all of that,

Right?

Right.

Exactly.

We need to bring that back and people can,

You know,

And since grief needs a witness,

You need to be with people who are comfortable with the tears.

So just not to diverge here,

But I think I always ask myself,

Well,

Why does a person do that?

Why does a person not cry?

The baby's so comfortable with crying,

Well,

Why isn't the adult comfortable with crying?

And I think maybe sometimes it's perceived as being a victim or being weak,

Right?

I don't want to be a victim.

I don't want to burden other people.

I don't want to,

I'm thinking to myself.

If I had to share every problem that came across my mind,

Which comes frequently with my wife,

You know,

I don't want to send her on this roller coaster of what I go through.

So I personally prefer to deal with things between me and the creator maybe,

And then bring her the end result as a,

Or more packaged form of what I'm going through versus the play by play,

Which can be very arduous and draining for another individual.

But maybe that logic is wrong.

You might want to rethink that one.

Okay.

All right,

Let's go.

Let's do that.

Because that's my thing.

I don't want to,

I don't want to burden other people.

That's a problem with our culture is something that hurts people.

Ego.

Ego.

We'll get to you in a moment.

We need to get comfortable with grief.

We need to get comfortable with death.

We need to get comfortable with expression.

You know,

It was in the 20th century that they kind of medicalized grief and put labels on it and they keep changing them because it's really not,

It's not a medical condition,

You know,

It's,

It's a normal thing that we go through.

Right.

And so it got like Sigmund Freud is kind of like,

He's kind of part of the problem because he,

You know,

He gave it a diagnosis or at least prolonged or complicated grief.

He gave it a diagnosis.

Right.

And so now it seems like something makes it's your,

You're sick or there's something wrong with you.

Wow.

You know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the most brilliant things I find and,

Um,

You know,

Watching my parents,

For example,

Go through the loss of their parents or sitting,

Being with students who go through their loss and grieving process.

One of the most brilliant things I've,

I've seen is the prescription that the Kabbalists give for slowing down life and not running back to the office and not running back to daily chores.

There was literally a scheduled,

And of course,

As you said,

Morning grief has no schedule.

You can't plan it or work your life around it.

But the Kabbalists teach that by us participating in that pause and not escaping into whatever makes us feel better or alleviates the pain or numbs or is going to,

I find when people try to shove it away,

It just compounds it.

So the idea of being able to take time to process,

And I think in,

In,

Um,

You know,

That seven days of pause and then there's a 30 day and then there's an 11 month and there's,

There's different stages in which the Kabbalists say,

These are the things that you can be doing.

Even though the grief may have its own timeline,

It really forces us not to shove it away,

Put it away,

Escape from it,

And that reduces the compounding.

I am somebody,

One of our dear friends lost their mother,

Maybe even a month ago,

Maybe not even.

And I shared a song with him,

Lyrics about grief that I had seen somebody else share in around the passing of their mother.

And again,

Both of these people lost their parents to cancer,

Not to COVID,

Not to,

Um,

I want to say this typical scenario that we've been having all,

All,

All year.

Uh,

So just one,

One quick,

The,

The chorus is,

And I don't even know who wrote it,

Which is a bummer.

Um,

Grief,

It's just like glitter.

It's hard to brush away bright light and it still shimmers like it was yesterday.

And it falls like confetti.

All of the memories explode like a hand grenade and it's sweet and it's bitter.

Grief is like glitter.

Oh,

What a mess it makes.

And I just thought that that's so beautiful because glitter,

You don't,

Glitter is not an ugly thing.

It's a shiny,

Sparkly light thing.

And at the same time,

If you have ever had glitter in your home,

You know,

You can't get rid of it no matter what you do.

It's in the carpet,

It's in your eyelashes,

It's everywhere.

And again,

With those people that I've been able to be close with them in their process to see it,

It just,

It,

Oh my God,

There's another one.

Oh my God,

There's a,

You know,

Then it's a,

You find it,

You see one little thing and it just erupts.

And the,

The I'll tell you something else.

I had a email conversation with someone earlier this week and,

And she was conditioned,

I guess,

Whether from a spiritual point of view or simply from an upbringing point of view to analyze why am I going through this?

Why am I feeling this?

What's the explanation?

And my advice to her was just to sit,

Be okay to sit with being not okay.

That's part of the,

David,

We said in the last year,

I think you got to feel it to heal it.

And,

And so counterintuitive to the way we are raised.

And now here we want to understand that this is,

That's crucial not only to moving past it because the perception is I got to get through this.

I got to get over it.

I got to get past it.

The opposite.

It's,

There's so much learning and growth opportunity that's there that we don't want to push it away or rush it.

And that's what grief's meant to do.

It's meant to,

I remember Marcus talking about the loss of his father and he said it felt like his whole world blew up and fell,

Everything was falling apart.

And he said,

You know,

Kind of what he realized is he wants his father back,

But he doesn't want himself back.

You know,

He doesn't want who he was before that because he learned so much and he grew so much from it because that's what challenge does to us,

Doesn't it?

And grief is the ultimate challenge.

It's the great revealer.

So for example,

Let's say a person,

We talk about having something and then losing it,

Could be financial security.

It could be love or a loved one.

What about someone who never receives what they want?

Where is the grief there?

We have a lot of people who strive for something.

It's the dream of,

They lost their dream.

It's who they wanted to be and never became.

I think that's- Right.

They reach a certain age,

They're not married yet or they wanted to have a child.

They have all that sadness and anger and all of them,

Right?

Denial.

Sometimes they go through all the phases.

And the other phase is acceptance.

I didn't want to get away from the phases because you asked and I wanted to make sure that- Right.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

Sorry.

Yeah.

I mean,

If people get nothing else out of this,

They see that grief is normal.

Even very complicated grief with a lot of even suicidal thoughts,

Which really are just longing.

A lot of times people aren't actually suicidal.

So just to have these conversations and open it up so people understand there's nothing wrong with them,

They're just grieving.

So let's say a person is single and the pandemic,

I spoke to somebody recently who was- She was dating and finally,

She's 35 and finally she was dating a great guy.

And the pandemic came and they just stopped seeing each other.

And she's probably feeling something with some form of anger,

Some form of a hurts.

She's single again.

She was before and she still is now.

I do want to address it because I know we have a large portion of our audience who's struggling with that.

Yeah.

It's grief.

What should she do about it?

Okay,

So now she knows it's grief.

What is she- She has to,

It needs to find a witness.

Maybe she's talking to you about it.

And all you need to do is bear witness to her feelings and where she is and be where she is at.

Not necessarily with solutions or fortune cookies or anything like that.

It is what it is and it's okay to be in that space.

Yeah.

I do want to get to acceptance,

But the friend of mine who lost her son,

Her daughter-in-law is now a young widow.

And one of the powerful things she said is that people don't know what to say to you.

They say,

I don't know what to say.

So sometimes they hide from you or they make an excuse,

Why not?

Or think you're taken care of or do other things without talking to you.

And she said,

Why don't we have a language for grief?

Why don't people know what to say?

And she believes,

And I think this is really true,

Is because it's not of here.

We're a species that will never really have a name for it because it is of another place.

When people die,

They go somewhere else.

And it's almost not our business to know where they're going.

They're going somewhere else.

So there's really no words in our language to describe what that is because we're really not supposed to know.

And I think that part of it is also because we don't talk about it,

But I thought that was an interesting perspective and I think it's really true.

That's beautiful.

I think our teacher Rovberg used to say that when a person leaves their physical body,

It's like they're standing on the other side of a glass door,

Or it makes me think of those interrogation rooms,

Where it's a one-way mirror.

They can see us,

We can't see them.

And the limitation of our five senses,

Right?

We spoke about the five gates,

Those that really blockages,

Even though that's the input where we take in the information,

The sensory stimulation,

It also prevents us from seeing the metaphysical reality and the fact that when that soul elevates,

They're actually no longer inhibited by the body and they can be closer to us and they can support us.

And I have a student that lost her daughter a number of years ago,

An adult who was an adult,

And it was amazing to be with her and to see the physical things,

Like she was in tune enough to see,

She misplaced her keys.

And when she found her keys,

It was on a note that her daughter had written to her,

For example,

Right?

Her daughter wanted her to see that note,

So she,

I mean,

From our point of view,

Literally moved the keys or somebody put the keys there so that she would have that connection.

So part of,

I think,

That process,

And I probably shared this with you,

It's not when a person elevates,

It's not that we need to learn to live our lives without them,

It's that we need to change our relationship with them.

The relationship that connects us by a phone number or a phone call or a favorite restaurant or anything of the material world,

Now we need to learn how to be close with them without our bodies,

With just the metaphysical,

Which is,

According to Kabbalah,

The only real thing.

And I want to say something about that,

That has to do with Kabbalah,

Is whenever I,

We've learned that,

For example,

Our destiny is to be happy,

Our destiny is not to have to deal with any pain long-term,

And sometimes logically,

We don't see how that's going to happen.

For example,

A person logically doesn't see how they're going to get from this dark place they're at now to this miraculous place that they're meant to be,

According to Kabbalah anyways.

Because in Kabbalah,

We say that each person is meant to reveal the light of the creator,

The light wants to give to us more than we want to receive.

But sometimes from our vantage point,

We don't see how is that going to happen?

How am I going to break out of this situation now?

And one of the most powerful lessons I've learned firsthand,

Being in many situations like that where I say,

Well,

It's impossible.

I could see maybe how it's going to get a little better.

I can see maybe how I'm not going to have the same pain,

But this unbelievable reality that I feel in my heart I'm meant to have,

I don't see how I'm going to get there.

And what I would tell my students is,

This is where your relationship with the creator and you need to ask the creator to show you how to get there and also to have certainty beyond logic.

It's a very powerful thing.

We all love to have certainty when it's within our logic.

I see that- Or when we have the evidence that we're doing the right thing or in the right place.

Right,

Exactly.

The evidence is there.

In fact,

I don't have any money now,

But someone said they're sending a check.

Okay,

So I have certainty,

I'm going to be okay.

Well,

That's not certainty.

It's certainty with evidence.

Certainty beyond logic,

Certainty with no evidence is there's no check and there's no check,

No one's sending you a check.

Well,

How am I going to make the money?

Well,

You're not allowed to see it yet.

And I heard actually our teacher,

Robert Berg say it this morning because I listened to him in the mornings and he said,

We know kabbalistically that if we do restriction,

Restriction is transforming our letting go of our selfish desires.

Let's put it that simply.

We know that if we let go,

We're going to get.

We all know that.

So how come the whole world's not just letting go constantly,

Which is part of what Karen saying with grief.

It is a process of letting go.

How come the whole world's not letting go?

Because the opponent,

That negative side puts time and space between the moment you let go and the return of that great gift.

And that space is,

Is,

Is spatial enough to make people doubt the process of letting go.

So then the student asked the Rav in this question,

This is the class that was 40 years ago and said,

Well,

Now we know that there's also a space.

We know that if we let go,

It's not going to happen immediately,

But eventually we'll get.

And he said,

Yes,

Even though now you know this,

You're still going to have a real hard time letting go because that's how strong the opponent is.

He's got some cards up his sleeve.

The Rav said that it will always confuse you and make you feel,

Well,

Maybe it's not going to work.

Maybe I'm not going to be happy.

Maybe I'll never be healed.

Maybe I'll never find my soulmate.

Maybe this reality everybody talks about on the,

On this show,

It's a nice concept,

But I don't think maybe that's not going to happen for me.

That's the power of the opponent.

Sometimes I think that also the,

The grief or the pain or the sadness,

Get that phase probably seems insurmountable.

How can it ever be different?

What,

How could,

How could a person ever stop feeling the pain over loss?

And I want,

I want to ask Karen for your opinion or your,

Your suggestions,

But you made me think David of a student of mine that lost his job.

I don't even remember,

Maybe two years ago and had a very difficult time because they,

You know,

There was just no way to get back in the industry at his age with his experience.

Because in the 1% there were all the,

All the evidence against it.

And he basically resigned himself to be like a housewife.

You know,

He,

He kind of didn't know what else to do with himself.

Now fast forward about six,

Eight,

Maybe even almost a year later,

Different things happened.

And if he had not been available,

If he had been working at that time,

You can't even say that.

That's how essential his being available was not only for financially,

For his family.

I mean,

It was just divine and it was almost like that,

That six month period,

Eight month period was him grieving the loss,

Not only of his job,

And this is the connection to whether you've lost a relationship or you've lost a job or you've lost connection to your community because of isolation.

The grief is over the loss of that identity or that version of myself and we all know those people that say,

Well,

If I could just have the relationship I had when I was 18,

Or if I could just be as successful as I was when I was at that company or really trying to relive the past,

That grief,

Going through that grief process over the relationship or the job or whatever it was that we have lost is actually what opens up the door for whatever is next and not that we need to say,

Okay,

I got to get through it quickly because I want to know what's next,

But truly living in that process is what helps to open that door and Karen,

I want to ask you,

What are some tools that you recommend that you can recommend for our listeners who are grieving right now?

Find a compassionate witness.

Find somebody in your life that you trust that you can share.

I've just told you it's okay to cry.

It is okay.

You must,

You must move the grief,

Especially those of you who are macho and don't like to cry.

Yeah.

Like with my friend,

You know,

We walk,

We go on these freezing cold walks together.

The friend I told you about and we walk and we talk and we talk and we walk and there's crying and they're sharing and she doesn't want to only talk about herself.

She wants to hear about me.

Right.

And we want to laugh a little,

But it's,

It's getting in and she called it leaning in.

I'm leaning in.

That's what she said,

Which is very brave of her.

Right.

And she wants you to like move it and,

But it needs somebody to do that with.

So that's why,

You know,

You talking to that student,

I think allowed some movement to happen.

Right.

And your job is to be,

You know,

I'm not,

I'm not giving my friend advice and telling her what to do.

I'm really just listening.

I'm laughing and I'm being right with her,

You know?

And I think that that's kind of what the most important thing we can do.

Also,

You know,

Depending on like how traumatic and what kind of layers of grief there are,

You know,

Cause I want to,

I do want to talk about how grief works,

You know,

It's a mechanism,

Right?

So something happens,

You can call it grief,

Call it trauma,

Whatever you want,

But an event happens,

Right?

And these phases,

And I'll say the last in case we don't get to them,

Acceptance and meaning,

Which was sort of related,

You know,

Acceptance of it allows you to get into meaning,

Which is like a higher level where you can,

Where you can actually experience where the diamonds are in it.

You know,

You're not,

You might not ever accept that that person that you lost that person,

That you can find,

Like with my friend,

We're finding a deeper friendship that we never had before,

Right?

There's meaning there.

So,

So an event happens and then we have to kind of move through the phases,

Right?

Even they might be out of order,

But we have to kind of orbit it.

So what happens is if you are a compassionate witness or a therapist,

Whoever is there to be that listener,

That vessel for your,

Your expression,

Then what happens is we kind of move through the cycle,

Right?

And every time you kind of go through those phases,

They go over and over and anger and denial and,

And,

And bargaining,

Whatever they are,

You are expressing it.

And every time you express it,

You create more space between the pain and you,

Right?

So you just keep,

You might keep going around and around and around,

Whatever it is,

You want to be really patient with it and know that the grief is moving,

Know that the grief is moving.

So in the space is where meaning exists and acceptance exists in this space is where we're standing sort of in that re collecting all of those shattered pieces,

Right?

And we're finding where the light is,

Right?

Because grief is a very,

It's a heavy word if you think about it.

So grief,

It kind of sits on the heart.

What's the opposite of grief of that,

That heaviness is light,

Right?

So the opposite,

You know,

Kabbalistically understanding how it works,

It's a clue that through grief,

Through the grief process,

You're experiencing something,

It's unknown,

It's bigger than we are.

And it allows us to access things we never really could have thought of or imagined.

So it sounds like really what we're saying is the importance here is moving the energy along.

Got to move it.

So whatever that takes,

The stagnant energy is the problem.

So swamp energy,

Right?

I mean,

I have a way of doing it with my clients where we we talk to,

We talk to the person and we close their eyes and they imagine the person and they reach up to them.

So they really feel their heart because really,

It's all about love,

Right?

Because underneath what's light is love,

Right?

So you want to experience that love.

And from the love from that love,

All kinds of things can happen for you all the healing can happen,

Right?

All the letting go can happen in that space,

Right?

So I have them reach.

And then they're saying to that person,

All the things they love about them and miss all the things they don't love about them and miss and it could even be I don't miss your illness.

I love you forever.

And goodbye.

We might have to round that several times.

But there is this and in that there's crying,

Right?

There's experiencing your sadness.

There's woo,

And you're just moving,

You're moving the grief.

And then they usually settle into a calm space and they feel sort of the trauma leaving.

They'll feel like a vibration coming through their body,

Which is the trauma or the sadness or all of leaving the body.

That's very powerful.

It's very powerful.

David Kessler has this exercise where you write a letter one night to the person,

Right?

You write a letter to the person you've lost.

And then the next night with your non-dominant hand,

You write from them to you.

And the reason you do that is because it gets you out of your head and it's shorter.

I love you,

You know,

And you get that message.

So there's all kinds of things you can do.

And somebody wrote something on my Facebook here,

Which I want to address and I'm going to address it by a story,

Which I think is kind of funny.

But you know,

Before I tell my story,

Do you want to say something?

I think that many of our listeners are US-based,

Canadian,

British,

Australian,

Which I think that there is a certain,

I think you called it,

Karen,

Mourning avoidant or death-denying culture.

There are other cultures that have such a vibrant celebrations of death.

You know,

The last few years we've had these movies come out celebrating the Mexican,

Let's say Dia de los Muertos,

Where it's like every year,

Regardless of when the person left the physical reality,

There is a celebration of life and food and music and color.

And the teaching around it is so uplifting and rejuvenating that connection to those people that have been lost.

There are other cultures that do similar things on whether it's we,

Kabbalistically,

We celebrate the individual on the anniversary of their passing on the Kabbalistic calendar,

Because that represents to us the totality of the light that they revealed in their lifetime.

So to really connect to their essence is to connect to them on that day.

And the Kabbalists use the word Hilulah,

Which means celebration.

It's an Aramaic word that is a celebration of life,

Not a solemn day.

And the idea that we can continue to connect to a person's energy,

Right?

Energy doesn't disappear.

It can be concealed or revealed,

But it doesn't.

That's even basic physics 101,

Right?

You can conceal or reveal it,

But you can't destroy it.

It doesn't disappear.

So whether you're a person that believes that we were molecules and we'll go back to being molecules and we'll be recreated as molecules in the future,

Or you connect to the idea that the soul is eternal,

We can always connect to that energy.

And Karen,

If there are any practices that you recommend or ways that people can reconnect or stay connected,

Not necessarily to the job they lost or the relationship they lost,

But at least to the loved ones that they've lost.

Well,

I think it involves being in the present.

You know,

It really involves bringing in saying their name.

You know,

I'm going to say my friend's son's name.

I hope she doesn't mind,

But his name's Ryan.

You want to say their name because it keeps them,

You're not talking about this person or a person's son or,

You know,

Keeping it not personal,

Right?

You want to,

Then the essence of that person lives on.

And so,

And you,

And you create that connection.

So I think name it and kind of find ways to be present because every moment is a new creation,

Isn't it?

And so just keeping that person in your heart and talking about them,

You know,

Looking at pictures,

You know,

My,

My friend's daughter-in-law,

You know,

She makes sure to look at videos and of,

Of,

Of when they were,

If the past or whatever,

Just so that she can soften her heart to the idea of him.

I thought that was so beautiful.

It's like,

Yes,

If we can kind of keep them alive,

Not like I'm keeping them alive,

Their physical memory,

But the essence of who they were,

She said,

He left me better than I was.

Right.

He left me better than I am changed forever.

And that will live on forever.

Then you've gotten into meaning you've gotten into this higher level thinking.

And so if you can sort of stay in the moment and allow yourself,

I don't think there's anything more powerful than that,

Allow yourself to continue talking to others about that person without it being about,

Well,

I don't think you should put any limits on it.

It's just that you have to be where you're at.

And so that's kind of the best way I know,

You know,

Everything else,

There's all kinds of,

I'm sure,

Tools that I can't think of right now,

But I think that is the most powerful one and it allows people then to kind of move to and allow for whatever else they need to learn from that person.

It's able to come down.

That that completely is in line with what we teach about continuing even in their absence to communicate with that person,

To light a candle for them.

The candle has a unique,

Both physical and non-physical quality that emulates the behavior of the soul.

It helps to call the soul down and give the soul peace.

But that conversation,

Not being afraid to open yourself up to receive communication back,

A butterfly,

A hummingbird,

Your favorite book falling from the bookshelf that you used to read with that person.

The small things and asking for their guidance,

For their support,

For their protection,

For their help in anything.

Again,

That's one of the benefits of not being physically apart from someone in that physical way.

We can be closer to them than ever.

David,

Anything you want to add to that?

How would you support someone in the grieving process?

Karen wrote this and I like what Karen said because I'm going to add this.

I had the limited belief that you want to burden other people,

Right?

My method has always been and will continue to be because it's a catalyst prescribed that we talk to the Creator.

So for me,

The Creator has always kind of been my witness.

I like to do it in real time.

So if I have a fear that comes out of nowhere or a negative thought that comes out of nowhere,

Instead of just pushing that aside,

I'll just stop and I'll talk to the Creator and I say,

I'm having this thought.

I'm having this fear.

And that's all I do.

I guess it's been moving the energy as opposed to pushing the fear away or trying to strong arm the fear.

I just tell the Creator,

Oh,

I'm having these thoughts and I know these thoughts actually come from you because you want me to move the energy.

So I have that conversation.

I have it every morning for about 20 minutes and then throughout the day,

As soon as it pops up,

I do it because a lot of times I'm alone.

However,

Adding the component of a physical witness,

A person that you trust,

I think that's valuable.

We're social beings.

We're humans that are here in these containers for a reason.

I think that we do need to allow that person to be that vessel for us.

It's interesting.

I think one of the most powerful things that Eli Shevin and I have is our community of teachers,

Which is so incredible.

There's a chat,

There's several chats,

Where everyone's always praying for each other and meditating on each other or asking if anybody has spare carrots or onions.

But usually it's one of those two things.

Someone's sick,

Please meditate on them and there's a healing and then somebody needs some carrots.

But what's really powerful about it is I've had stuff I had to go through like surgeries and stuff like that and I'm like,

Maybe I should put it in the chat and people can meditate on it.

But the truth is I feel like it's a burden.

I'm like asking everybody,

Stop what they're doing and think of it.

The story doesn't end there.

When I had the issue with my son and maybe he couldn't walk,

Whatever,

I feel like I'm fine.

My wife told me,

You're going to ask the teachers to meditate.

I'm like,

Okay,

Fine.

I remember telling Yehuda Ashkenazi and I tell the story all the time.

He basically got everybody in the middle of the night together and they did a live Zohar,

Reading from the Zohar for 45 minutes.

I'm watching the Zoom and people are in their pajamas and all I could think about is I just disturbed the night of like 35 people.

But it was so powerful and definitely it shifted something and it shifted something in my son.

But I'm sharing that story because I know other people have that issue,

The burden issue.

But I wanted to share that component of it,

Which is number one,

Still talk to the creator because people are asking,

What,

Should I not talk to the creator anymore?

No,

You still talk to the creator.

Creator is your witness.

You can do that anytime,

All the time in real time.

However,

Having the element of other people is very powerful.

Yeah.

And my friend had that trouble too.

She didn't want to burden me,

You know,

And she decided to ask for help,

You know,

And to say,

Yeah,

I'm going to,

I'm going to,

Yes,

I'll go walking with you instead of even to,

And she said,

One of the things she said for other people is don't stop asking,

You know,

Don't the texts are lifesavers,

You know,

That's exactly what I was going to ask you.

What do you recommend for those of us who can be witnesses?

Should we leave space for them to ask or should we be the,

Do the asking?

So there's my answer.

Yeah,

They can't make decisions.

They're so discombobulated.

She said she's like kite and they,

That,

That when people reach out,

It's like grounding.

They might not answer you because they're in such pain or they need to kind of be in isolation for a little bit,

But they see everything.

So don't stop calling.

Don't stop texting,

But she said the emojis and the hearts were lifesavers for her.

Yeah.

So,

And,

And you can,

You know,

Food's good,

You know,

And don't have them make too many decisions.

So say,

I'd like to bring,

You know,

Lasagna,

You know,

On this day and are there any dietary restrictions,

You know,

She has a son who's vegetarian.

So like that very much appreciated like stuff like that.

So just the,

The,

The keep reaching out because they,

She actually did a lot of reaching back,

But I'm sure she,

In some way she didn't reach,

You know,

And that doesn't mean anything.

They feel at all.

Like if you could do a,

A meditation group about that person,

They feel the energy.

So whatever you do,

All the energy you put out is received.

The reason I really liked the idea about having a compassionate witness too,

Is that's the person you could go to.

You can say,

Can you please ask Sally to stop bringing lasagna?

You can tell the truth.

So you're not having all this stuff piled up in your freezer,

Like so that they can kind of manage for you.

Pick a witness,

Pick a witness.

And if you're a chosen witness,

Don't stop asking.

Don't stop being there.

Even when you there's radio silence,

Continue to be there and show up and support.

Beautiful.

Wow.

Yeah,

That was awesome.

Your daughter in law did say something which I thought was kind of interesting.

She said people kept sending flowers.

And she said her house is like a mausoleum and flowers die.

So she personally would not send flowers.

She said that other people she appreciates the sentiment,

But just something out there for people.

I actually never send flowers for that reason.

If I want to send something like that I send a plant at least it'll have the capacity to live beyond the week plans,

Plants and food I might go to is of course food.

But you know,

The other thing I want to say is check in later,

Like even months later,

Don't assume they're taking care of you know,

Like our lives move on their head theirs has not.

So like,

It's a marathon,

And you want to help them be in the marathon.

So if you can be there,

You know,

You don't want it to be only you.

But like,

Just make yourself check in,

You know,

Do what you can do that fits you that you can do for the long haul.

Beautiful.

All right.

Thank you,

Karen for joining us again.

My pleasure.

And I'm sure we'll find out as the days go on why it had to be this week and not in December or October all the other times we planned it.

I want to thank Karen for joining us.

I want to thank you for listening.

And you can continue to write your comments,

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