Nisargadatta's I Am That Session 28 - Chapter 13 Part 2

Listen to Ektaji talk about Nisargadatta Maharaj's book I Am That. Nisargadatta Maharaj was a teacher who did not propound any ideology or religion, but gently unwrapped the mystery of the self. I Am That preserves his dialogs with the followers who came from around the world seeking guidance in destroying false identities.

Transcript

Welcome to I am that chapter 13 the supreme the mind and the body Continued in the last session we stopped at The first question answer on page 33 we continue from there The questioner says I am asking you a question and you are answering Answering are you conscious of the question and the answer?

Why is he asking such a question?

Because Maharaj says that he does not focus on the body mind so much.

He does not focus on the world so much his focus or Kendra sthan is on the pure consciousness the reality that which he himself is So That is why he's asking the question.

Are you conscious of the question and the answer?

Maharaj says in reality.

I am neither hearing nor answering In the world of events the question happens and the answer happens Nothing happens to me Everything just happens You Maharaj has become very clear that I am simply the dream character In this dream world that belongs to the dreamer This dream world runs on a dream script That is why this dream character Automatically does actions through the body That is why this dream character Seems to have thoughts that are related to this particular body mind He only seems to think that these actions and these thoughts belong to him Actually,

They belong to the dreamer.

It is the dreamer that is actually moving and thinking for this body mind Maharaj has reached a stage where he recognizes that I am not this body mind till now I had pretended to be I Was under the false illusion that I am this body mind He has gone now beyond You can also go beyond right now.

Take a step beyond the body beyond the mind and See that you are not listening.

You are just witnessing the body listening to this particular talk When this becomes clear you will understand why this questioner is asking this question and why Maharaj is saying this I Am neither hearing nor answering In the world of events the question happens and the answer happens The dream characters cannot see the dreamer the dream character cannot Know the dreamer the dream character is really Nothing else,

But the dreamer so the dream character can just be the dreamer That is where you look in you cannot really know the I you cannot really Experience the I But you can just be the I Simply the I not I the Woman or I the man Not I the mother or I the father Not I the sister or I the brother not I the businessman or I the doctor Not the labels not the title simply the I You can also move from the illusion of being the dream character to being in reality the one who is witnessing the dream character I Am the dreamer I Am not the dream character and you recognize this you also recognize I am NOT the body mind One particular body mind is not mine You Cannot see the body mind,

Which is the closest is mine And the one that is furthest away is not mine No,

You're just using this body mind as a peephole to look into the dream world and enjoy the dream That's it.

The peephole does not belong to you is not created by you is not yours Now this particular peephole does its job its function It helps the dream world be perceived You cannot forget your position of being the witness and Assume to become the peephole and say I am the perceiver Wrong understanding you are not perceiving It's simply witnessing So you are not seeing you are not hearing you're not smelling You're not touching you are not tasting.

These are the five perceptions You are not the perceiver you are simply the witness You can only know that this is happening you cannot do so Maharaj says I am neither hearing nor answering in the world of events the question happens and the answer happens Yes,

I Do not know when I am dreaming How the dream is happening in the dream the question also happens and the answer also happens automatically so I the dreamer have woken up in this dream and Yet,

I just see that the question happens and the answer happens Nothing happens to me everything just happens The Questioner says and you are the witness Maharaj says what does witness mean?

Mere knowledge It rained and now the rain is over.

I did not get wet.

I Know it rained,

But I am not affected.

I Just witnessed the rain That is the meaning of being the witness When I am the witness I just know What is happening?

Knowing is my only possibility I Do not experience That is why Maharaj is saying it is mere knowledge What does witness mean mere knowledge it rained and now the rain is over I Did not get wet.

I Know it rained,

But I am not affected.

I Just witnessed the rain The fully realized man spontaneously abiding in the supreme state Appears to eat drink and so on is he aware of it or not?

Maharaj says that in which consciousness happens The universal consciousness or mind we call the ether of consciousness All the objects of consciousness form the universe What is beyond both Supporting both is the supreme state a state of utter stillness and silence Whoever goes there disappears It is unreachable by words or mind you may call it God or Parabrahman or Supreme reality,

But these are names given by the mind It is the nameless contentless effortless and spontaneous state beyond being and not being So the questioner has a doubt now whether Maharaj is as aware as the questioner is Yes,

So he's asking that You eat you drink.

Are you aware that you're doing all these things?

So Maharaj helps clarify that he says I am the paramakash So I am that paramakash the absolute no thingness,

Which is not simply a void it is a Conscious void it is alive.

It is full of awareness.

I Am the paramakash in me the paramakash the witness consciousness arises The sense of I am this is the beginning of the mind Or it is the beginning of the chidakash,

Which is the mental space In which all the minds are there.

It is the collective mind the chidakash in the chidakash the mahadakash arises the mahadakash is all the physical bodies and all the physical objects the so-called universe So there is the paramakash in which there is the chidakash in which there is the mahadakash If this is clear now,

Let's read the paragraph again That in which the witness consciousness happens The universal consciousness or mind we call the ether of consciousness Ether of consciousness is nothing else but a literal translation of chidakash Ether of consciousness so what is chidakash in that in which there is the witness consciousness or the mind and Which mind the universal means all the minds together my mind Ghazal's mind Pamir's mind Sarang's mind all the minds of the world all the minds Together the collective mind that which we have assumed to be little little Droplets of mind or that which we have assumed to be as my personal mind Actually is one collective mind That is called chidakash or the ether of consciousness In that chidakash the witness consciousness seems to arise the sense of I am that in which the witness consciousness happens Universal consciousness or mind we call the ether of consciousness or chidakash All the objects of consciousness form the universe which is mahadakash So mahadakash arises within the chidakash.

It contains all the objects that we Define as the universe What is beyond both beyond both means what beyond the chidakash and beyond the mahadakash What is beyond both?

Supporting both is the supreme state a state of utter stillness and silence What is supreme state?

Paramakash Whoever goes there disappears Whoever goes there Disappears,

It is unreachable by words or mind.

You may call it God or Parabrahman or supreme reality But these are names given by the mind It is nameless contentless effortless and spontaneous state beyond being and not be So Most of us have stepped from the mahadakash to the chidakash Since we started recognizing that I am the witness consciousness now some of us have also managed to get a glimpse of being the Primordial awareness that is nothing but being the paramakash When you Get a glimpse of that you recognize that I am beyond the body and the mind I am the paramakash in which the chidakash and the mahadakash come and go So when I recognize I'm not the body and I'm not the mind my Wrong Assumption of being the person dissolves So he says Whoever goes there disappears Doesn't mean you're really going to disappear It means that sense of being a person I this person I am this body mind this assumption disappears it Vanishes totally So he says whoever goes there disappears It is unreachable by words or mind because Mind cannot go there.

No only when you recognize.

I'm not the mind.

I'm not the thoughts You recognize I am that no thingness You have already dropped the mind so mind cannot go there You May call it God or Parabrahman or supreme reality But these are simply names given by the mind it is nameless You cannot name nothingness.

It is no thing You cannot name nobody.

There is nobody there Yeah,

So it is nameless.

It is contentless.

There is no body.

There is no mind.

There is no I Yeah,

It is contentless Effortless and spontaneous state You don't have to do something In fact,

You cannot do doership belongs to the body mind.

I am NOT the body mind I cannot do Only when I give up the thought of being the doer just Resting Relaxing just witnessing in that effortlessness the spontaneous state happens It's not even a state these are also just words that is the real me that is who I am Beyond being and not being You cannot say I am the moment you say I am you are not anymore in the primordial Awareness you have come to the witness consciousness level.

Yeah,

So There is no being Yet,

You cannot say I am NOT So there is no being there is No,

Not being it is beyond both being and not being So this question is a little confused Beyond being and beyond not being but does one remain conscious in such a state?

So Maharaj says as the universe is the body of the mind So is consciousness the body of the supreme?

It is not conscious,

But it gives Body of the supreme it is not conscious,

But it gives rise to consciousness So,

How is the universe the body of the mind?

Every night in deep sleep state there is no universe.

There is no body There is no mind there is no I even There is nothing in deep sleep state then I Is born From the I thoughts are born these thoughts are nothing else,

But the projections a thought is then assumed to be tangible and And that tangible thought is labeled as objects of the universe so the universe is nothing but the body of the mind because it is the projection of the thoughts of the mind Similarly the witness consciousness is The body of the primordial awareness or pure consciousness The pure consciousness is nothingness It has No thing there.

There is no body.

It is like the void It is like stillness silence emptiness In that emptiness when that emptiness becomes aware of itself it Projects a Sense of being because it becomes aware of itself That sense of being in Hindi Hune Ka Ehsas In Marathi Asne That sense of being the sense of I am That is the body of the primordial awareness or the pure consciousness The questioner said in my daily actions Much goes by habit automatically,

I am aware of the general purpose,

But not of each movement in detail as My consciousness broadens and deepens details tend to recede Leaving me free for the general trends Does not the same happen to a Jani but more so Maharaj says on the level of consciousness,

Which is witness consciousness.

Yes in the supreme state No The pure consciousness or pure awareness is what he's talking about on the next page this state is entirely one and indivisible a single solid block of reality the only way of knowing it is to be it The mind cannot reach there To perceive it does not need the senses to know it does not need the mind So,

Why does he say this Because the questioner asks that he's aware of the general purpose,

But he's not aware of each movement in detail and details tend to recede Is that not what happens for a Jani that is why But my dad says well,

You can say that this happens at the witness consciousness level,

But not at the Primordial consciousness level because the primordial consciousness is entirely one and Indivisible it is a single block of reality so there is nothing to be aware of the general purpose and not be aware of details because there is no general purpose and details at all at the primordial awareness level And He goes further to say that the mind cannot reach it.

The only way of knowing it is to be it You can never experience it.

You can never know it.

You can only be To perceive it does not need the senses to know does not need the mind because that is knowingness itself So the questioner Has Dwight I'm influenced I guess and that's why he asked that is how God runs the world Maharaj is like God is not running the world So then the questioner says then who is doing it?

Maharaj says nobody There's a little typo there after nobody it Another person just says all happens by itself or the questioner says all happens by itself then Mara says you are asking the question and you're supplying the answer and You know the answer when you ask the question All is the play in consciousness all divisions are Illusory you can know the false only the truth.

You must yourself be I Want you to explore one more thing many times You know the answer before you are asking the question Look somewhere inside you already know the answer and you are asking the question It's not about these knowledge sessions that I'm talking about in anything in life anything You know the answer It is all a play in consciousness and you are the dreamer You know it all You just pretend that you are limited by the body mind and that is why you Assume that you do not know the answer But you know the answer to the question that you are asking Because it is all the play all the play in the same consciousness All divisions are Illusory you can know the false only The truth you must yourself be So The questioner asked the next question There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing consciousness Is the second the supreme?

Maharaj says There are the two the person and the witness Maharaj makes it very simple He says there is the person the body mind And the witness The observer or the dreamer in our example when you see them as one and Go beyond you are in the supreme state So this is one level higher from witness consciousness Till now we were only practicing to be the witness of the body and the mind And then we were Taking this stand as the witness consciousness We saw body separate mind separate the world separate and I the witness consciousness separate Now Maharaj is taking you one more step beyond The I had stopped at witness consciousness now he's saying shift the I to one step beyond Yes,

Move your eye from the witness consciousness and go one step beyond When you go one step beyond to the primordial awareness,

You see the witness consciousness and the body mind world together They're not separate Together you have gone one step beyond.

So now we'll read that again When you see them as one and go beyond You are in the supreme state Please highlight this This is the next key for the people who are working to go beyond the witness consciousness to the primordial awareness In Your experiential recognition not in your intellectual understanding in your experiential recognition Is this happening that you see the witness Along with the body mind world all as one You are beyond Beyond the witness beyond the body beyond the mind beyond the world Then you are at the supreme state level It is not perceivable because it is what makes perception possible Perceivable means cannot perceive it through sight sound smell taste touch Because it makes perception possible So in our dream example Going beyond both the dream character and the dreamer What is beyond the dream character and the dreamer The dreamer waking up completely from the dream Out of the dream Going beyond the dream character and the dreamer Because a dreamer is a dreamer only till the dream lasts You get it The moment the dream is over The dream world is also over the dream character is also over the dreamer is also over Now there's a new identity the waker Now you are the waker.

You are not the dreamer anymore That is the supreme state That is called awakening that is called enlightenment When I am beyond both The dream character with its dream world and The dreamer Which means I am beyond the body-mind world and the witness consciousness And I go beyond both Then I am at the supreme state the primordial awareness level Now this primordial awareness was the one that was making The perception happen Means it is the waker that goes to sleep Becomes the dreamer and makes the dream world happen Makes the sight sound smell taste touch of the dream world happen through its dream through its dream script For that the waker had to become the dreamer For that the waker had to become the dreamer so who's making everything possible it is the waker So the waker makes the perception possible That is why he cannot be perceived Can the dream character say now I am going to perceive that waker.

I'm going to wake that dreamer up and Meet the waker is it possible for a dream character to meet the waker Not possible Hopefully that is very clear It is not perceivable because it is what makes perception possible It is beyond being and not being It is neither the mirror Nor the image in the mirror It is what is the timeless reality?

Unbelievably hard and solid The dream world time and space does not affect the waker so with respect to the dream Time and dream space the waker is Beyond time and beyond space beyond the dream time beyond the dream space So he's timeless.

He's spaceless he is hard and solid awareness one block of reality It is beyond being and not being So you cannot say that the waker does not exist just because the dream character cannot see him in the dream world and You cannot say the waker exists because the waker is not there in the dream world so it is beyond being and beyond not being It is neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror it is what is the timeless reality When you look at your face in the mirror that which you see in the mirror is that real No,

So neither the mirror is real nor the image in the mirror is real.

What is real?

This this is my real face That is not my real face that which I am seeing in the mirror So that which is in the image of the mirror is not the real The mirror is also not the real what is real this Similarly It is neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror.

It is what is The timeless reality Unbelievably hard and solid Questioner as The gyani is he the witness or the supreme now the question has become very clear What is the witness and what is the supreme the witness is the dreamer the supreme is the waker?

Maharaj says he is the supreme of course,

But he can also be viewed as the universal witness All the witnesses all together The dreamer sees the entire dream world It is the same dreamer that is also the waker It is the same dreamer that is also the waker not really different When the dreamer wakes up and he says oh it was all a dream even the Snake swallowing me was the dream and even the Party with the friends happy party That was also a dream all of it is a dream So,

He is the universal witness But he remains a person this question is very confused,

I know Maharaj says when you believe yourself to be a person you see persons everywhere In reality,

There are no persons only threads of memories and habits at the moment of realization At the moment of realization the person ceases Identity remains But identity is not a person It is inherent in the reality itself The person has no being in itself It is a reflection in the mind of the witness The I am which again is a mode of being So the questioner asks about the gyani Does he remain a person?

I don't know in what context he was thinking.

Maybe he comes from the dwetam path and he expects that the gyani or the enlightened one disappears or He does not see the world I don't know what his imagination is,

But the way Maharaj explains it is that the sense of I this person I this body mind That drops away completely When you believe yourself to be a person you see persons everywhere So when you believe yourself to be the dream character in this dream And without recognizing that it is a dream you think yourself to be this Flesh and blood and bones with a mind That is I am this body.

I am this mind a very strong belief you believe yourself to be this person Who is an engineer or doctor or teacher?

This personality this belief when you have I am a person you see others also as persons So if you see an enlightened person you think that is also a person Right because That is the limitation of your mind You have not matured beyond a point you have Always been in that ignorance of being the body and mind So you see an enlightened person also as the body and mind When you believe yourself to be a person you see persons everywhere In reality,

There are no persons only threads of memories and habits I like the way Maharaj describes People They're just threads of memories and habits We do a self-exploration but let me tell you in short Moment to moment notice that which you call I this person moment to moment That person disappears disappears disappears and appears disappears and appears What is person person is nothing but thoughts feelings sensations and perceptions There is nothing else beyond a person Perception and sensation together.

I call the body thoughts and feelings together.

I call the mind Have you noticed thoughts appear and disappear?

Yeah feelings appear and disappear that means the mind appears and disappears Have you noticed sensations appear and disappear Have you noticed the perception of sight sound smell taste and touch appear and disappear?

That means the body appears and disappears What does this mean?

The person appears and disappears The person is not constant that which I feel is this one constant entity That is not constant That is not continuous So Maharaj says In reality,

There are no persons only Which is so true That which appears and disappears.

How can you say that is real or that exists?

How can you give it some strong Foundation that exists,

How can you call it an entity that exists?

It's not one continuous entity So in reality,

There are no persons what is there in reality Some memories some thoughts some sensations What is there in reality some memories of yours floating You put these memories together and you say This is my name.

This is Where I live.

These are my family members.

This is my occupation These things belong to me these situations happened with me in the past these did not happen you have these few memories Which you put together and you say this is who I am They are threads of memories The body-mind has habit patterns according to these memories This body-mind called ekta speaks in this pattern only this body-mind called ekta uses hands And gestures while speaking this body-mind called ekta walks like this talks like this does things like this N number of habit patterns following the memories the threads of memory That's all we are we are threads of memory and habits There are no persons So he says there are no persons only threads of memories and habits at the moment of realization the person seizes What happens when you become enlightened or you awaken to your real nature You completely dissociate with this body mind because you realize oh dream world dream character body mind I am the dreamer.

What have I been associating with?

Illusion drop It completely drops off the person seizes Now is the most important thing identity remains Why identity remains because this dream world is there the dream is continuing The dream does not stop The dreamer has become awake in his dream He knows he's dreaming but the dream Has a shelf life it is going to continue for this much time So that much time the dreamer is Awake in the dream knowing that I am dreaming this I'm dreaming this Yes,

So the witness consciousness completely snaps its Relationship or its wrong assumption that it is the person The person seizes That does not mean the body mind will die the body mind will continue till it's supposed to continue in the dream world The identity remains What identity is this body mind is the mother the father the The teacher the doctor the The colleague of this whatever whatever the Identifications of that body mind were they remain why because that belongs to this dream script,

No?

Dream script cannot suddenly change the dream world cannot vanish The only thing that happens is the dreamer Becomes awake in his dream At the moment of realization the person seizes identity remains But identity is not a person It is inherent in the reality Inherent in the reality itself means it is part of the dream script itself The person has no being in itself It is a reflection in the mind of the witness.

I am These threads of memory and habits They are not real person They are nothing but a reflection in the witness consciousness in the sense of I am The person has no being in itself It is a reflection in the mind of the witness that I am Which again is a mode of being?

So now the Questioner is asking Is the supreme?

Conscious Neither conscious nor unconscious I am telling you from experience What is he talking about?

He's talking about the param akash Or the swaroop my real Self my real Nature my real nature am I conscious or am I unconscious?

What does he say neither conscious nor unconscious Again,

This is a clue for the people who have got there If you've got a glimpse,

You will understand this statement.

If you have not got a glimpse Then you will be confused Till the witness consciousness level I know I am conscious Because I am knowing The moment I go beyond the witness consciousness level To the primordial consciousness and this all is one the witness consciousness the mind the body and the world Are all seen as one And I am beyond them Then I'm neither conscious nor unconscious I am not conscious of all these yet.

I am not unconscious of these This can only be tasted you just be the primordial awareness and you recognize yes The taste the glimpse gives you this idea.

Yes,

I am conscious and yet I am not conscious I am conscious and yet I am not conscious

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