Nisargadatta's I Am That Session 25 - Chapter 12 Part 2

Listen to Ektaji talk about Nisargadatta Maharaj's book I Am That. Nisargadatta Maharaj was a teacher who did not propound any ideology or religion, but gently unwrapped the mystery of the self. I Am That preserves his dialogs with the followers who came from around the world seeking guidance in destroying false identities.

Transcript

The questioner says awareness lasts.

Isn't it?

It's a question mark.

Maharaj says awareness which means primordial awareness or pure consciousness.

Awareness is not of time.

Time exists in consciousness only.

So when he says consciousness you know he's talking about witness consciousness,

The sense of I am.

Time exists in witness consciousness only.

Beyond consciousness where are time and space?

There is time and space only for this dream character because that dream character is now limited to this dream world.

So whatever happens in this dream world frame to frame to frame to frame that is limited by time and space.

Is the dreamer limited to the time and space in this dream world?

No.

How can the dreamer be affected by the time and space in the dream world?

It doesn't touch him.

So this is the witness consciousness.

The witness consciousness is limited by time and space and that is awareness.

The primordial awareness that is beyond time and beyond space.

Within the field of your witness consciousness there is your body also.

This is the questioner asking him.

So Maharaj says of course but the idea my body as different from other bodies is not there.

To me it is a body not my body.

A mind not my mind.

The mind looks after the body.

All right.

I need not interfere.

What needs to be done is being done in the normal and natural way.

Back to our dream world example.

Everything in this dream world happens exactly according to the dream script.

So it is happening in the normal and natural way.

Whatever is happening to this body mind is happening according to the dream script in the normal and natural way.

If the dream script says that this dream character's body will get a disease it gets a disease.

If the dream script says that the mind of this body will now start taking care of the body.

Okay it fell sick because of eating this or doing that wrong or not exercising not taking care of the body.

The mind will now start taking care of the body.

Okay let me correct that which was wrong.

We were not exercising.

Let's exercise.

That also is happening according to the dream script.

So the mind of the dream character is automatically taking care of the body of the dream character per the dream script of this dream.

Yes there is an automaticity and when I take this step beyond the dream character go to the level of the witness.

I can see it.

Yes I am just knowing what is happening.

Thoughts are automatically coming.

Right from where?

Oh that is the dream script.

That is how the dreamer wants it.

That is the dreamer's dream.

I do not need to interfere.

Who am I?

I am now the witness.

I do not need to interfere.

Actually I am only the dreamer.

I have only projected it.

But the shooting is over no?

So I have no memory of that shooting.

When the dream script was written when the hero heroine shot everything everything is already done.

I just perceive it now.

I just witness it now.

Yes so right now I am simply the witness and just take that position and stay.

Recognize that the dream script runs this body mind.

I the witness am not the doer.

I the witness am not the experiencer.

Very clear?

So I'll read that again.

The idea my body as different from other bodies is not there.

So when I take that position of I the witness I'm witnessing this entire dream world including the image of this body.

Look down at your body.

Isn't it just an image and that image has sensations?

Yeah another person's body maybe your family member's body is just an image minus the sensations.

So just because this is image plus sensations I say this is mine and that is image minus sensation so that is not mine.

Who has laid down this rule?

Isn't this simply paroksha,

Inferential?

This is paroksha jnana,

Inferential knowledge.

What does a paroksha tell me?

What does direct knowledge tell me?

This is just image plus sensations that is only image.

That's it.

It does not convey to me this is mine and that is not mine.

The rest was paroksha,

An inference,

An assumption.

So start separating your paroksha and aparoksha again and again and just because pratyaksha says from sight,

Sound,

Smell,

Taste,

Touch from the five senses I feel this body is attached to me and that is not attached to me.

So this is mine and that is not mine.

Again inference,

Paroksha.

I do not have direct experience.

Direct experience simply is image closer,

Image further away.

That is it.

Does not convey mine and not mine.

The mine and not mine or me and not me is an inference,

Is an assumption.

In my direct experience there is just no thingness.

That is what I am.

So that is why Maharaj is very clear that this is not my body.

This is a body just like that is a body.

This is not my mind.

This is a mind just like that is a mind.

So the mineness is simply paroksha jnana.

Paroksha jnana is an inference that I draw,

Assumption,

A story that I make.

I do not have direct experiential proof of it.

Direct experiential proof is simply closer image,

Further away image.

That's it.

Does not convey mine and not mine.

Direct experiential proof is just image plus sensation,

Image minus sensation.

Does not say mine or not mine again.

That part is paroksha,

Inferential.

When you start working on separating paroksha and aparoksha,

It becomes very clear that I was only conditioning myself.

I was blinding myself with beliefs.

I was blinding myself with stories.

Maharaj has reached a stage where he now completely rejects everything that is paroksha.

That is an inference.

That is an assumption.

That which is not conveyed by my direct experience and just stays with direct experience.

So what does direct experience tell him?

It is a body,

Not my body.

It is a mind,

Not my mind.

It is not different from others.

The mind looks after the body.

All right,

I need not interfere.

Again,

This is direct experience.

And the deeper you go into recognizing that knowing is my only possibility,

This body is taken care of automatically by the mind.

You will see it.

A thought will arise that I should exercise and then the body will go out,

Do its exercise.

You will see that the mind will be taking care of the body.

Though the mind has contradictory thoughts also because of the cravings and aversions that were created when the witness became one with the body-mind,

There will be contradictory thoughts that will still go on.

But if you manage to be the witness again and again,

You will see thoughts which are contradictory fall off automatically.

You don't have to do anything.

They dissolve,

They disappear.

There is a very clean script that has already been written by the dream script writer and that thought leading the body into one direction is automatically happening.

Many times that thought does not come up in words.

Body is automatically doing it.

Like most of you have already recognized.

You don't think that I have to go right to left in the shower.

Automatically the body is moving from right to left.

So the mind is automatically taking care of the body.

The body cannot move right or left on its own.

The body is anathma.

It is dead.

The mind also is anathma.

It is dead.

This mind has got some charge from the witness because of which it borrows consciousness and it takes care of the body.

So the body knows what to do.

Automatically the body moves in certain directions,

Does certain actions.

The mind has its own way of thinking and bringing balance to the body.

The problem happens only when I,

The witness,

Forget my position,

Assume to be the body-mind and come up with contradictory thoughts.

Contradictory thoughts are the product of my own cravings,

The product of my own aversion.

Oh,

I'm lazy.

I don't want to exercise.

I just want to sit on the couch and watch TV.

Craving to watch TV.

The mind had already instructed the body,

Let's go out for a 20-minute walk.

But a contradictory thought came up and then there is this big war going on inside.

Again and again,

Take that step beyond.

Take that step beyond and watch the war dissolve.

You will see it dissolve.

When you stop giving power to the battle,

The battle dissolves.

Take the power away.

Be the witness and recognize what Maharaj is saying.

The mind takes care of the body.

So the mind looks after the body.

All right,

I need not interfere.

What needs to be done is being done in the normal and natural way.

You may not be quite conscious of your physiological functions,

But when it comes to thoughts and feelings,

Desires and fears,

You become acutely self-conscious.

To me,

These two are largely unconscious.

I find myself talking to people or doing things quite correctly and appropriately without being very much conscious of them.

It looks as if I live my physical waking life automatically,

Reacting spontaneously and accurately.

You too can see this when you take that position of the witness.

You see,

Just like the physiological functions of the body of breathing happening automatically,

The heart beating automatically,

Digestion happening automatically,

Just like that,

The body is automatically doing its programmed things in the house.

It's getting up,

Doing its cleaning,

Its cooking,

Taking care of the family members,

Taking care of things.

It's doing its thing as if it's a program.

The mind automatically is processing the information from the email.

It is automatically paying the bills,

Doing the right things.

Whatever is already programmed for the mind to do,

It is automatically doing it.

Falling into place like just puzzle pieces.

It's all happening accurately.

I do not need to give it attention.

In the external material world,

If you fail in something,

What do they say?

Oh,

You were not giving it attention.

That is why you failed.

Exact opposite is what we are seeing in our direct experience,

That even when I'm not giving attention,

The words are coming out automatically and perfectly explaining this paragraph.

The body is sitting comfortably,

The hands are moving perfectly to explain a particular point.

There is nothing wrong happening when I do not interfere,

When I stand back as the witness and just observe that the dream is running per its script.

He says,

What is your problem?

He spelt it out.

When it comes to thoughts,

Feelings,

Desires,

Fear,

You become acutely self-conscious.

You start giving them too much attention.

It's just like you shine a spotlight on it and that's where your cravings and aversions come up.

Oh,

I don't want it to be like this.

I want it to be like this.

Oh,

Wish it was like this.

Oh,

I have to be a witness.

I should not be indulging,

But I wish it goes that way.

I'll be a witness,

But it should go that way.

You're still craving.

You're not being a witness.

Yes.

So,

Recognize this little tussle that is happening.

He's saying you become acutely self-conscious when it comes to thoughts,

Feelings,

Which are desires and fears.

To me,

They are largely unconscious.

Unconscious means not that he's not conscious,

Means he's not taking his attention there.

He's not shining a spotlight on his fears and not a spotlight on the desires.

He just regards it as a thought that comes up and goes,

Another thought that comes up and goes,

Another feeling that comes up and goes.

He's not giving it importance because he knows it will be taken care of.

I do not need to interfere.

Please understand the meaning of the word unconscious there.

And he says he does things quite correctly,

Appropriately,

Without being very much conscious of them.

It looks as if I live my physical waking life automatically,

Reacting spontaneously and accurately.

So,

The questioner is quite amused at this.

He says,

Does this spontaneous response come as a result of realization or by training?

Maharaj says both.

Devotion to your goal makes you live a clean and orderly life given to the search for truth and to helping people.

So,

There are two aspects.

Number one,

He's talking about training.

In Marathi,

Training is abhyasa.

So,

Let me tell you what really abhyasa,

The way it is in Marathi.

Abhyasa is you having the love for something and that's why giving it attention is called abhyasa.

It's not a practice that has been forced on me and I have to do it.

That's not abhyasa.

Abhyasa is me having the love for it so much that I give it my complete love.

My entire energy moves in that direction.

Somebody has love for making money,

Playing games through the casino.

His full energy is directed to the money and the casinos and winning that way.

Somebody's love is for getting love through a relationship,

A particular relationship,

Maybe a spouse,

A family member.

His energies are concentrated in that one direction.

When you have completely channelized your energy towards your spiritual growth,

That channelizing of energy is called abhyasa.

That is why when the questioner used the word training or abhyasa in Marathi,

Maharaj used the word love in Marathi.

Prem,

Which was translated to devotion in English.

So,

He is actually saying love for your goal makes you live a clean and orderly life.

You obviously completely channelize your energy towards truth and to helping other people.

And then number two,

Realization.

What does realization do?

Realization makes noble virtue easy and spontaneous by removing for good the obstacles in the shape of desires and fears and wrong ideas.

So,

If I realize that I am not the body-mind,

I am the witness,

I recognize,

Oh,

I am not this desire,

I am not this fear,

I am not this pleasure and I am not this pain.

I recognize this and I snap out of that hypnosis of pleasure or hypnosis of pain that I was totally trapped by.

When I snap out of it,

That is called realization because now I've recognized I am not that.

My suffering comes to an end.

I have realized my true nature.

So,

Very clearly when you realize this,

What happens?

The noble virtues become easy and spontaneous.

Why?

Because all my desires and fears have dropped away.

And what are the noble virtues?

Simply living an orderly life,

Channelizing all my energy towards that peace that I am instead of disturbing the peace.

My entire energy is channelized just to remain as the witness rather than trying to take on the wrong identification as the person and disturbing the natural peace that I am.

So,

The questioner asks,

Do you have desires and fears anymore?

Maharaj says,

My destiny was to be born a simple man,

A commoner,

A humble tradesman with little formal education.

My life was of the common kind,

With common desires and fears.

When through my faith in my teacher and obedience to his words,

I realized my true being,

I left behind my human nature to look after itself until its destiny is exhausted.

In English,

This sounds very poetic.

I'll read it out to you in Marathi.

Teva maja manushyapana mi tyacha varach prarabdha sampe pariyant soopvun dila.

My manushyapana means the way this body-mind behaves.

That is what I have labeled as manushyapana,

Human.

The perception of the way this body speaks,

Does things,

The way it acts,

The way it reacts,

All those things,

The beliefs,

The conditioning,

Everything is what I have labeled as manushyapana,

The human.

Once I realize that this is a package deal,

It can take care of itself.

I,

The witness,

Do not have to be responsible for this.

I am not in control.

I have only freaked myself out thinking that I am in control of this.

That has been the cause of disturbance for me.

When I have recognized this,

Maharaj says that no,

I am not in control.

This piece of perception,

Sensations,

Thought and feelings can take care of itself.

I understood this so I left it to itself.

Soopvun dila,

That is why I left it to itself.

Very poetic it sounds but understand simply that he's saying that the mind takes care of the body.

I do not interfere anymore.

I left behind my human nature to look after itself until its destiny is exhausted.

Occasionally,

An old reaction,

Emotional or mental,

Happens in the mind but it is at once noticed and discarded.

Please highlight this.

Maharaj is fully enlightened.

Even in a fully enlightened person,

A thought will come up which is based on some old habit pattern,

Old conditioning.

A lot of people on the spiritual path psych themselves out that I have to become the perfect Buddha.

I should not have a thought,

I should not have a disturbing feeling.

Then only I am enlightened.

Until that time,

I am not enlightened.

No,

Until that time,

Even the other person is not enlightened who projects that he's enlightened because he had one little thought or he had one little feeling.

Till the time this body-mind,

This personality exists,

There will be a disturbing thought or a disturbing feeling that comes up.

The enlightened person recognizes it and stands apart,

Discards it,

Doesn't give it importance.

So,

I'll read that again.

Occasionally,

An old reaction,

Emotional or mental,

Happens in the mind but it is at once noticed and discarded.

After all,

As long as one is burdened with a person,

One is exposed to its idiosyncrasies and habits.

As long as one is burdened with the person means as long as this body-mind exists or it has not exhausted its shelf-life,

One is exposed to its idiosyncrasies and habits.

Means all the rajas,

Tamas and sattva gunas will do their little dance.

Coming up and going away for their own seasons but I remain as the witness.

Immediately,

I recognize it and discard it.

That is what Maharaj is saying.

I hope this is very clear.

So,

Questioner asks,

Are you not afraid of death?

Maharaj says,

I'm dead already.

Questioner says,

In what sense?

Maharaj says,

I'm double dead.

Not only am I dead to my body but to my mind too.

Questioner says,

Well,

You do not look dead at all.

Maharaj says,

That's what you say.

You seem to know my state better than I do.

So,

Questioner says,

Sorry,

Sorry,

Sorry.

But I just do not understand.

You say you are bodiless and mindless while I see you very much alive and articulate.

Maharaj then explains.

Let's see how he explains it.

A tremendously complex work is going on all the time in your brain and body.

Are you conscious of it?

Not at all.

Yet,

For an outsider,

All seems to be going on intelligently and purposefully.

Why not admit that one's entire personal life may sink largely below the threshold of consciousness and yet proceed sanely and smoothly?

So,

What is he saying?

He's repeating the same thing again.

My physiological functions in this body go on automatically.

The heart is beating,

The breath is coming in and out,

Digestion is happening,

The blood is circulating throughout the body.

Everything is happening on its own.

So,

You understand that lots of things are happening automatically.

So,

When you accept this,

Why can't you accept even personal thoughts,

Feelings,

Emotions?

All of these,

My personal internal world that I have labeled as mind,

That is also running on the similar program,

He's saying.

It is not voluntary.

It is involuntary.

Means it is automatic.

It is programmed.

It is happening on its own.

Why can't you see it that way?

So,

I'll read the last sentence.

Why not admit that one's personal life may sink largely below the threshold of consciousness,

Means the superficial consciousness,

And yet proceed sanely and smoothly?

Just like I'm not conscious about my heart beating,

But my heart is beating my heart beating,

But my heart is beating perfectly,

Smoothly,

Sanely.

Similarly,

Even when I'm not aware of my thoughts,

My thoughts are going in the perfect pattern that they need to go.

My feelings,

My sensations,

They are meant to go in a particular way.

They come and then they go according to their program.

It is all happening smoothly,

Sanely,

Below the threshold of consciousness.

Means I don't have to be conscious about them.

I don't have to be spotlighting them all the time.

He says,

Be a floodlight.

How is a floodlight?

It's like the light is all over illuminating everything.

Spotlight is just focused on one little area.

So,

You're saying it's not a spotlight.

You have assumed that it is a spotlight.

Look clearly,

Dropping your paroksha,

Look through a paroksha,

Direct experience and you'll see it is a floodlight.

Again,

I used a metaphor there.

I'm just saying that it is all happening automatically like a program.

So,

This questioner asks the question,

Is it normal?

Maharaj says,

What is normal?

Is your life,

Obsessed by desires and fears,

Full of strife and struggle,

Meaningless and joyless,

Normal?

I love the way he said it in Marathi,

Plus one more sentence is missing there.

So,

I'll read it in Marathi.

So,

I'll read it in Marathi.

Jeevan sarvasadharan ahikai is your life which is artha shunya,

Meaningless,

Nirananda,

Joyless,

Which is full of kalha and sangharsha,

Full of struggle,

Strife,

Which is grasped,

Which is in the fangs of ikcha and bheeti,

Desires and fear.

Is that normal?

Bhavanan ni chhinna bhinna hone,

Kalpanan sa chhal sosne,

He tari sarvasadharan ahikai?

Being torn by emotions,

Being tortured by imagination,

Is that normal?

That sentence is missing in the English.

Nirogi deha ani nirogi man,

Hi tyaachya maalkaachya thavhanshi jaani vet na yeta jeevanta asthaar.

So,

I'll read that in English again.

What is normal?

Your life,

Obsessed by fears and desires,

Full of strife and struggle,

Meaningless,

Joyless,

Is that normal?

To be acutely conscious of your body,

Is that normal?

See,

What had we always thought?

I should always be conscious,

Like a spotlight,

Spotlight focused on the body and mind,

And that is what is called being aware in the world,

In the material world.

He says,

No,

Is that acutely being,

You know,

Conscious on,

About the body or the mind,

Having a spotlight there,

Is that normal?

A healthy body,

A healthy mind,

Live largely unperceived by their owner.

Only occasionally,

Through pain or suffering,

They call for attention and insight.

Why not extend the same to the entire personal life?

One can function rightly,

Responding well and pulley to whatever happens,

Without having to bring it into the focus of awareness.

This is very important,

Please highlight.

This is exact opposite of what we had been thinking earlier.

Not only on this external material world,

Even on the path of dwaitam,

Because the body and mind is separate from God,

There is duality,

There is an acute focus required to be there on the body and mind.

And that is why you have to purify the body and mind,

You have to do pranayama,

Yoga,

You have to keep the mind and body very much under a particular discipline,

Because there is dwaitam there.

But on the path of advaita,

It is exact opposite.

He says,

No,

You are keeping a spotlight on that which is not required.

You think you have a control on the body and mind.

And that is simply an illusion.

Withdraw,

Take the stand of the witness and recognize that was paroksha,

Inferential knowledge or assumption.

It was indirect knowledge,

It was not the truth.

Through my direct experiential knowledge,

I know that I do not need to interfere with my body and mind.

It automatically takes care of itself.

So he's explained it very well,

That only when it needs attention,

It calls for attention and how through pain or through suffering,

That's when you're supposed to take your attention to the body-mind.

Other than that,

It can live largely unperceived by the owner.

It functions rightly,

Responding well and fully to whatever is happening without the focus of awareness,

Which is I,

The witness.

When self-control becomes second nature,

Awareness shifts its focus to deeper levels of existence and action.

This is very important.

The word self-control is very loose translation of the word maryada.

The word in Marathi is maryada,

So I'll read the Marathi sentence.

When self-control becomes second nature,

Awareness shifts its focus to deeper levels of existence and action.

The body is taken care of by the mind.

The mind has borrowed consciousness already from the awareness.

It has a charge and now it can take care of that body inside it.

The maryada is the limit of the mind in which if the body remains,

It can function perfectly well.

That does not mean it's not going to fall sick.

It means it will go according to the dream script without your own cravings and aversions interfering with it.

So,

When the body and mind learn this little skill of just working within the maryada,

Within that limit,

Then everything runs perfectly.

Nothing goes wrong.

That is Maharaj's way of saying it.

Nothing goes wrong in my world.

It is perfect.

So,

I'll read that part again.

When self-control,

So substitute the word self-control with maryada,

That's the Marathi word.

It could not have been translated into English.

There is really no word in any language to say that the mind controls the body because this is not an acceptable scientific fact.

This is only a direct experiential truth.

So,

There is no language in the world which will give a word for this particular thing.

This has to be understood.

The context needs to be understood.

So,

The mind takes care of the body.

Till the time the body remains,

The body-mind remain operates in this limit of its own,

It perfectly functions according to the dream script.

So,

When this maryada becomes second nature,

Awareness shifts its focus to the deeper levels of existence and action.

Then where does awareness go?

Where will witness go?

Witness was always caught up with this body-mind,

No?

Now witness will just relax.

It will sink in and now you will go beyond I,

The witness,

Where you will start witnessing the I-thought.

You will start witnessing the projection of the world.

That is the meaning of going to the deeper levels of existence.

Moving from the witness consciousness to the primordial awareness.

Obviously,

The questioner did not understand the depth of this.

So,

He asks the question,

Don't you become a robot?

Maharaj says,

What harm is there in making automatic what is habitual and repetitive?

It is automatic anyhow.

When it is chaotic,

It causes pain and suffering and calls for attention.

So,

Only when it needs some attention,

It calls for attention through pain or through little suffering.

Then you look,

Oh okay,

There is a little wound.

Otherwise,

It is automatically functioning.

What is the harm in acknowledging that which is automatic as automatic?

The entire purpose of a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the thralldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow.

Thralldom of chaos in Marathi,

It has been translated in Marathi is the gulamgiri.

So,

Gulamgiri is the thralldom of chaos,

Which is gulamgiri.

And the burden of sorrow.

Gulamgiri is literally slavery.

We are slaves to the chaos created by I,

The witness,

Interfering with the body-mind machinery.

If your vacuum is nicely doing its job,

It's a robotic vacuum which moves around on its own and vacuums the floor.

You go in the middle and you start causing chaos with the machine.

You push it right,

Push it left,

Use it on the machine,

You will break it eventually.

Because you are interfering with it.

Similarly,

Maharaj is saying this body-mind is anyway automatic,

It is anyway robotic.

There is no harm in calling that automatic which is automatic anyhow.

It will take chaos and sorrow away if you stop interfering with it.

If you continue to interfere,

Then you are forever going to be a slave to the chaos and to the sorrow.

I will read that line again.

The entire purpose of a clean and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the thralldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow.

Krishna says,

You seem to be in favor of a computerized life.

Maharaj says,

What is wrong with a life which is free from problems?

Personality is merely a reflection of the real.

This dream character is merely a reflection of the dreamer's mind.

So,

This personality is merely a reflection of the real.

Is that clear?

Why should not the reflection be true to the original as a matter of course,

Automatically?

Because the original dream script is that this is going to run automatically.

Why not?

Why can this personality not be true to its original dream script?

Need the person have any designs of his own?

Please highlight.

Designs means,

Do I really need to have my cravings and aversions?

By having my cravings and aversions,

Have I really been able to change anything in this plan,

Ever?

In my 20,

30,

40,

50,

60,

70 years,

However old you are today,

Have you ever managed to change anything in this script?

Do you really need to have your cravings and aversions?

Do you really need to have any designs of your own?

The life of which it is an expression will guide it.

This dream character is an expression of the dreamer's mind.

The dreamer's mind will guide it.

Once you realize that the person is merely a shadow of the reality but not reality itself,

You cease to fret and worry.

You agree to be guided from within and life becomes a journey into the unknown.

You become very clear.

This is just a reflection of that.

That will guide it.

The script is written.

You stop worrying.

You withdraw.

Take that step back.

Be the witness.

Be true to your original script,

Your original self.

Script your original self.

When you are true to your own self,

Then the journey into the unknown begins.

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