I Am That Chapter 19 - Reality Lies In Objectivity Part 1

Listen to Ektaji talk about Nisargadatta Maharaj's book I Am That. Nisargadatta Maharaj was a teacher who did not propound any ideology or religion, but gently unwrapped the mystery of the self. I Am That preserves his dialogs with the followers who came from around the world seeking guidance in destroying false identities.

Transcript

I am that chapter 19.

Reality lies in objectivity.

What is subjective?

Wherever my likes and my dislikes are involved that becomes subjective.

Atmanishta.

That's the Marathi word.

Atmanishta.

Atmanishta is subjective.

Wherever my personal likes and dislikes get involved.

For example,

If you have your phone.

I don't have my phone here to show you.

If you have a phone.

Oh this is the best phone on the market.

When I say something like that best phone who considers it as the best phone?

I.

So,

Atmanishta.

My likes and dislikes are involved when I am talking about that phone.

Similarly,

This is the best book on Advaita Vedanta.

So,

My personal desire,

My personal likes and dislikes are involved.

Very clear.

Atmanishta.

Subjective.

So,

What is the meaning of objective?

It's simple.

Where there is no personal like dislike involved.

Very simple.

Reality is objective.

Your consciousness has got nothing to do with me or you at a personal level.

In fact,

There is no me and you at a personal level.

Yes.

So,

If you take it one notch higher,

It means there is no possibility of subjective to come into the picture where consciousness is concerned because there is no individual I or an individual you.

Super clear.

So,

Reality lies in objectivity.

Vastav Satya Vastu Nishthet Aste.

Reality lies in objectivity.

Questioner,

I am a painter and I earn by painting pictures.

Has it any value from the spiritual point of view?

Maharaj,

When you paint,

What do you think about?

Questioner says,

When I paint,

There is only the painting and myself.

Have you noticed this?

When you are totally engrossed in your favorite hobby,

There is just that thing,

Yes,

And myself.

When I paint,

There is only the painting and myself.

What are you doing there?

Questioner says,

I paint.

Maharaj says,

No,

You don't.

You see the painting going on.

You are watching only.

All else happens.

Yes.

So,

What level is the painter talking from?

Painter is talking from the body-mind level.

Where is Maharaj talking from?

The level of awareness,

Primordial awareness.

So,

Maharaj is helping this person come one step beyond.

Because again and again,

Because of our past habit patterns,

We again and again tend to say I for this body-mind.

And Maharaj simply holds the finger of the seeker and moves his eye,

Shifts his eye in one sentence.

That's the quality of the best Advaitali teacher.

He continuously helps the seeker move his eye from the body-mind personality to the awareness.

So,

Maharaj is saying,

No,

You don't.

You see the painting going on.

You are watching only.

All else happens.

The questioner is saying the picture is painting itself.

He is a little confused.

Or is there some deeper me or some God who is painting it?

So,

Maharaj says,

Consciousness itself is the greatest painter.

The entire world is a picture.

Please highlight this.

This is the main place where your entire mirror experiment begins.

Consciousness itself is the greatest painter.

The entire world is a picture.

Questioner says,

Who painted the picture of the world?

Maharaj says,

The painter is in the picture.

Go very slowly.

The painter is in the picture.

Now,

What will he think?

He'll think that you're talking about the body-mind being in the picture.

Yes?

What is Maharaj saying?

Maharaj is saying the ocean and the waves are all water.

Yes?

So,

Consciousness is the picture itself.

Consciousness is the painter itself.

Consciousness is everything.

That is where Maharaj is attempting to take him.

So,

The painter is in the picture.

Now,

The questioner says,

The picture is in the mind of the painter and the painter is in the picture.

Which is the in the mind of the painter?

Who is in the picture?

Is not this infinity of states and dimensions absurd?

The moment we talk of picture in the mind,

Which itself is in the in the picture,

We come to an endless succession of witnesses.

The higher witness witnessing the lower.

Yeah,

The people who are in Atmanirthi have done higher witness and lower witness.

So,

You already know this what he's talking about.

The others,

I can just give you a little glimpse of it now.

So,

This questioner is not new to the path.

He has understood this infinity of witnesses.

The higher witness witnessing the lower witness.

It is like standing between two mirrors and wondering at the crowd.

So,

What is he saying?

This pure consciousness is the higher witness.

The reflection of the pure consciousness is the lower witness,

Which is the witness consciousness.

So,

Higher witness is equal to primordial awareness is equal to pure consciousness.

Write it down because it's the first time for people in I am that.

Higher witness is equal to pure consciousness is equal to primordial awareness.

So,

What is lower witness?

The witness consciousness is the lower witness.

Yeah,

If you know the distinction between Maharaj's words,

Primordial awareness is the higher witness and witness consciousness is the lower witness.

So,

These become only two witnesses.

Where is the question of succession of witnesses?

Reflection of the lower witness again and in the higher witness has a reflection and that reflection has another reflection and that second reflection has another reflection.

What are those?

Primordial awareness is reflecting as witness consciousness.

What is witness consciousness reflecting as?

The mind.

Very good.

As the mind.

The witness consciousness reflects as the mind.

Then,

Next.

The mind reflects as the body.

Perfect.

The body reflects as the world.

That's how it is.

One mirror,

One reflection,

The other reflection,

Then that reflection shows another reflection and you have these zillion reflections.

So,

Now is your time to experiment if you have two mirrors.

Stand in or sit whatever stand sit in front of the mirror and see that that big mirror is reflected in another mirror.

So,

This little boy is in front of the mirror and then he is seeing himself a zillion times and so many you'll have to sit at a particular angle to be able to achieve this effect.

Towards the side of the mirror,

You go to the side of the mirror and the mirror on your back should then be moved and the mirror on your back should then be moved a little so that you can see multiple reflections.

So,

Shailaja will see multiple Shailajas.

Yes,

You got it?

This is the infinity of reflections that Maharaj is talking about.

The highest witness is what?

The highest witness is the pure consciousness or in Maharaj's words,

Primordial awareness.

That reflects,

That's the first,

That's the main.

That itself is standing in front of its own self which is the mirror and it is reflecting in the mirror as the witness in the mirror as the witness consciousness.

That sense of I happens in what?

It happens in that void only.

Yes,

And you know this from your own experience from the deep sleep state,

There was only void and in that void arose the sense of I am.

So,

The void is the higher witness,

The primordial awareness,

That nothingness,

That stillness became aware of itself.

The idea of becoming aware is like the mirror and seeing its own reflection in it as I,

The sense of I,

The sense of being,

The sense of existing.

Khoone ka ahsaas.

Clear?

And there is no real mirror there.

You have to just understand Maharaj was or the questioner was using that example.

He's a painter,

No?

He has a creative mind.

So,

He's using an analogy to explain how he sees it and the same thing has been explained in the higher chapters of Atmanirruti with these proper words higher witness and lower witness and possibly this person has read Atmanirruti a little bit.

Yeah,

We don't know.

So,

Pure consciousness or primordial awareness is the higher witness.

It witnesses itself saying I,

That sense of I.

It witnesses.

That's how I know when the sense of I arises at the end of the deep sleep state and beginning of the dream.

There's first the sense of I.

That's the first reflection.

That I itself projects as I am this or I am that.

That is the next reflection.

So,

Now that lower witness which is the sense of I is now witnessing the this or the that which is a thought.

You're still in the dream state.

Maybe you are dreaming that you are flying so I am flying.

Maybe I am a fly,

Maybe I'm a bird or I'm a human flying.

It can be anything.

So,

That is a thought.

That thought itself,

I am flying projects or sees itself.

The sense of sight comes.

It feels the air in which it is flying.

Sense of touch comes.

If there is a wonderful fragrance there,

Sense of smell arises.

So,

Now that only is reflecting as a thought.

These are multiple thoughts and those thoughts are nothing but the senses.

Sense of sight,

Smell,

Taste,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Touch,

Multiple thoughts and those thoughts are nothing but the senses.

Sense of sight,

Smell,

Taste,

Touch,

Whatever is a part of your dream.

All that is nothing but perception.

Perception is nothing but the world.

So,

The world is nothing but a thought.

Your sense of sight,

Smell,

Taste,

Touch,

Sound is nothing but a thought.

All this is reflected in you,

The mirror which is the pure consciousness and you look at all these things and you think this is the world.

It's like looking back in that mirror,

Seeing all the zillion Shailajas and thinking they are all different.

She calls one name and form Ekta,

She calls one name and form husband,

One name and form daughter,

One name and form friend,

But it is all Shailaja,

Right?

It is all you only.

There is no two there.

Advaitam.

There is no other.

Advaitam.

Advaitam.

Super clear?

Yeah,

Now this person is not a beginner,

Okay?

He's there,

He's well-read,

He has a lot of knowledge,

But maybe experientially he's not able to establish there properly.

So,

Maharaj is just going to help him again and again establish,

Again and again establish.

Very clear?

Higher witness,

Lower witness,

Very clear?

And read that again.

The picture is in the mind of the painter and the painter is in the picture,

Which is in the mind of the painter,

Who is in the picture?

Is not this infinity of states and dimensions absurd?

The moment we talk of picture in the mind,

Which itself is in the picture,

We come to an endless succession of witnesses.

The higher witness witnessing the lower.

It is like standing between two mirrors and wandering at the crowd.

Very,

Very clear what he's saying?

Full paragraph is clear?

Maharaj says,

Quite right.

You alone and the double mirror are there.

Between the two,

Your forms and names are numberless.

Highlight that.

Your forms and names are numberless.

It is you only,

No?

Reflecting in the mirror,

It is you only,

No?

Reflecting in the mirror and you see a zillion Shailajas there and you see a zillion Divyas there.

It is your self only reflecting and these are all your names and forms.

So,

The question is asking Maharaj a personal question.

How do you look at the world?

So,

Maharaj says,

I see a painter painting a picture.

The picture I call the world.

The painter I call God.

I am neither.

I do not create nor am I created.

I contain all,

Nothing contains me.

This is also a very beautiful way,

The way Maharaj sees it.

It's similar,

Just slightly different.

Slightly different.

He says that the painter who is painting this picture,

Though we have taken a mirror,

Let's say it's the painting of a mirror and if you look carefully it looks like the painting of a mirror.

It doesn't look like the real photograph there.

So,

The painter is God and his painting is the world.

But again,

God is part of that painting.

He is not separate.

But both of these,

Where are they?

They are in me.

I am not created.

Neither did I create it.

I'm not the creator.

I'm not the created.

Yes,

You see both.

I'm not the knower.

I'm not the known.

I'm not the creator.

I'm not the created.

All this is in me.

That is the meaning of,

I contain all,

Nothing contains me.

Like the ocean can say,

I contain all the waters of the world.

But the waters of the world don't contain me.

It doesn't matter if you draw lines imaginary on a map and divide the ocean into Pacific Ocean and Atlantic Ocean.

Man-made.

You can never divide it really.

Can you?

Can you go into the ocean and say,

Oh this is the line.

This is where Pacific begins and Atlantic ends.

No,

You cannot.

It is all the same.

There is no two.

There is no dvaitam.

Yes,

So I do not create,

Nor am I created.

I contain all.

Nothing contains me.

Very clear?

Maharaja's stand is that of the consciousness.

That the painter,

The so-called God is also a part of the painting,

Is in me.

And God's creation,

This world is also part of me.

Yes,

He does not believe in a God which is an idol.

You go to the temple or the any worship home and worship some God.

No,

He does not believe in that.

Yes,

He is very clear.

There is only one God and that is the pure consciousness.