I Am That 66 Chapter 23 Discrimination Leads To Detachment 2

Listen to Ektaji talk about Nisargadatta Maharaj's book I Am That. Nisargadatta Maharaj was a teacher who did not propound any ideology or religion, but gently unwrapped the mystery of the self. I Am That preserves his dialogs with the followers who came from around the world seeking guidance in destroying false identities.

Transcript

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Maharaj says yes the difficulty may be physical emotional or mental but it is always individual large-scale calamities are the sum of numberless individual destinies and take time to settle but death is never a calamity so questioners very confused even when a man is killed so Maharaj says the calamity is of the killer questioners totally confused and he says still it seems there are two words mine and yours Maharaj says mine is real yours is of the mind so now questioner is really really upset but he's saying it nicely you can see this imagine a rock and a hole in the rock and a frog in the hole the frog may spend its life in perfect bliss undistracted undisturbed outside the rock the world goes on if the frog in the hole were told about the outside world he would say there is no such thing my world is of peace and bliss your world is a word structure only it has no existence it is the same with you when you tell us that our world simply does not exist there is no common ground for discussion or take another example i go to a doctor and i complain of stomachache he examines me and says you are all right but it pains i say your pain is mental he asserts i say it does not help me to know that my pain is mental you are a doctor cure me of my pain if you cannot cure me you are not my doctor Maharaj says what only one quite right right you are right no argument yes yes you are right then maybe he calms down a little bit and he says you have built the railroad for lack of a bridge no train can pass build the bridge he's telling Maharaj build the bridge Maharaj says there's no need of a bridge you know what he's talking about bridge between this person's world and Maharaj's world he's talking and build a bridge Maharaj says no need of a bridge so questioner says there must be some link between your world and mine Maharaj says there is no need of a link between a real world and an imaginary world for there cannot be any please highlight most important there is no need of a link between a real world and an imaginary world for there cannot be any nothing to explain here really it's not possible questioner says so what are we to do Maharaj says investigate your world apply your mind to it examine it critically scrutinize every idea about it that will do haven't you been doing this since yesterday now yeah so please highlight that little part as your homework from Maharaj investigate the world apply your mind to it third examine it critically and scrutinize every idea about it the asmita the mamata the karta and the bhukta every little idea now this is a lazy man he says the world is too big for investigation all i know is that i am the world is the world troubles me and i trouble the world at least he's honest Maharaj says my experience is that everything is bliss but the desire for bliss creates pain bliss creates pain thus bliss becomes the seed of pain the entire universe of pain is born of desire give up the desire for pleasure and you will not even know what is pain it's a master key give up what give up the desire for pleasure and you will not know pain how do you give up yes simply witness by saying i don't want it is still a want are you seeing this yeah so he's not saying say don't want just be a witness to what is whatever is the flow is the flow yeah not jumping into it and grabbing it not pushing it away what is is yeah not wanting to change what is is the meaning of not desiring what is is it is so not wanting anything to change is the meaning of giving up the desire for pleasure so if a painful event comes your way so be it it's okay what is is whatever happens what is is not having the desire to change what comes that means not desiring for pleasure so the questioner asks why should pleasure be the seed of pain marad says because for the sake of pleasure you are committing many sins and the fruits of sins are suffering and death questioner says says you say the world is of no use to us no use to us only a tribulation i feel it cannot be so god is not such a fool the world seems to me a big enterprise for bringing the potential into actual matter into life the unconscious into full awareness to realize the supreme we need the experience of the opposites just as for building a temple we need stone mortar wood iron glass tiles so for making a man into a divine sage a master of life and death one needs the material of every experience as a woman goes to market buys provisions of every sort comes home cooks bakes and feeds her lord so we bake ourselves nicely in the fire of life and feed our god so marad says well if you think so act on it feed your god by all means so questioner says a child goes to school and learns many things which will be of no use to it which will be of no use to it later but in the course of learning it grows so do we pass through experiences without number and forget them all but in the meantime we grow all the time and what is a gyani but a man with a genius for reality this world of mine cannot be an accident it makes sense there must be a plan behind it my god has a plan marad says if the world is false then the plan and its creator are also false he throws in punch lines like that yeah so you become very clear that yes this is illusory this is all illusory then recognize very clearly all your religious conditioning all your spiritual conditioning all of it is part of that illusion all of it there is something in you that knows the truth otherwise how would you recognize it the moment marad says something you recognize it because you already knew you had just forgotten you have buried the truth so if the world is false then the plan and its creator are also false now he gets angry again again you deny the world there is no bridge between us marad says there is no need of a bridge your mistake lies in your belief that you were born you were never born nor will you ever die but you believe that you were born at a certain date and place and that a particular body is your own see you're hearing this directly from marad yeah you were never born you will never die yes he's telling you directly the question questioner says the world is i am these are facts marad says why do you worry about the world before taking care of yourself you want to save the world don't you can you save the world before saving yourself and what means being saved saved from what from illusion salvation salvation is to see things as they are i really do not see myself related to anybody and anything not even to herself please highlight this i really do not see myself related to anybody and anything not even to herself whatever that self may be i remain forever undefined i am within and beyond intimate and unapproachable yeah so he has completely identified with nothingness not related to anybody not he was a married man with kids a shop and all you know this right so he doesn't see himself related to that family to the kids to the shop or to whatever little he had made not related to anyone not related to anything to anything clear that is the ultimate goal that's where i have to get then i know i am completely free of asmita what was asmita i-ness i-ness yes that i-ness will completely drop yeah you agree to be nobody you agree to be no thing then you have reached primordial awareness i am not so i hope you've highlighted that i really do not see myself related to anybody and anything not even to a self whatever that self may be i remain forever undefined that is the key nothingness does not have a definition no form no name yeah even if you call it nothingness it's just a word that mind has given it's not really its name because it doesn't have a name you say okay nothingness i am within and beyond intimate and unapproachable intimate and unapproachable when you're intimate with somebody you're intimate with beloved you're very approachable yeah the beloved can come and open up to you because you're very intimate intimate friends close friends right who is the person who's unapproachable he's not intimate he cannot be intimate now he's putting two opposites together i am intimate yet unapproachable because i am nothingness how can you approach nothingness till you are the vyakti you can never come to the avyakta vyakti cannot approach the avyakta yet vyakti is nothing else other than the avyakta so it's intimate you are me only yet vyakti cannot approach the avyakta unapproachable questioner asks how did you come to it maharaj says by my trust in my guru he told me you alone are and i did not doubt him i was merely puzzling over it until i realized that is absolute that it is absolutely true so questioner says conviction by repetition means just by repeating what the guru told you is that the way you got there he says no by self-realization please highlight what is the difference conviction by self-realization and conviction by repetition what is the difference yes repetition is only intellectual you believe me i am your guru i am giving you this word now you keep repeating it you will get there yeah this is belief blind belief superstition this is really superstition this is really by realization his guru was very smart he took him there through self-realization yeah through the direct path through the experiential seeing s-e-e-i-n-g through experiential seeing he took him there so he didn't get conviction by repetition he got conviction by self-realization so the external guru served only as a stepping stone to the internal guru yeah and maharaj got there by self-realization yeah you have to distinguish between these two types this is the type which is the spiritual shopkeeper chant the mantra for 10 years yeah income for 10 years steady income this is the hidden income you don't need it from the waking world this is self-realization by self-realization i found that i am conscious and happy absolutely and only by mistake i thought i owed being consciousness bliss to the body and the world of bodies yeah he he's telling you exactly what happened at his self-realization in one sentence i found that i am conscious and happy absolutely that's what happened at his self-realization he realized i am such a pure consciousness bliss and by mistake he had imparted that being being consciousness and bliss to the body that is what he's saying one line very simple he's telling him this is a mistake thinking this is who i am is a mistake yeah and the only self-realization is recognizing i am not the vyakti i am the avyakta questioner says you are not a learned man you have not read much and what you read or heard did perhaps not contradict itself i am fairly well educated and i have read a lot and i found that books and teachers contradict each other hopelessly hence whatever i read or hear i take it in a state of doubt it may be so it may not be so is my first reaction and as my mind is unable to decide what is true and what is not i am left high and dry with my doubts in yoga a doubting mind is at a tremendous disadvantage now he's finally talking about himself and finally telling him that i take it with a pinch of salt whatever you're talking about your world versus my world yeah so at least he's opening up now after a lot of argument he started opening up maharaj says i am glad to hear it but my guru too taught me to doubt everything and absolutely he said deny existence to everything except yourself through desire you have created the world with its pains and pleasures last line is about projection you have projected your own world through your desire and what is the lesson deny existence to everything except the self what is the self witness consciousness the sense of i am deny existence to everything else thoughts feelings sensations perceptions the world of people situations things this body all of it deny existence there's only one thing sense of i can so maharaj says i'm glad to hear it but my guru too taught me to doubt everything and absolutely he said deny existence to everything except yourself through desire you have created the world with its pains and pleasures so he's talking about projection so questioner says must it also be painful he wants only a pleasant projection he doesn't want pain so maharaj says what else by its very nature pleasure is limited and transitory transitory means it's constantly changing yeah it's temporary class only for a short time so pleasure is limited and transitory by its very nature out of pain desire is born in pain it seeks fulfillment and it ends in the pain of frustration and despair pain is the background of pleasure all seeking of pleasure is born in pain and ends in pain so beautifully said yeah what is he saying there is only a base of pain okay because there is pain why is the pain there because everything is transitory what does the ego want the mind wants permanence and confirmation that i exist validation i am permanent i am not temporary it wants that but that is a lie that's not the truth the truth itself is everything is temporary it's constantly changing constantly changing temporary this is the truth yeah so where is desire born out of pain no i don't want to see this truth so because this truth is painful i don't want to see this truth so i want permanency desire is born out of that pain the pain of not wanting to see the truth yeah when it lives in that pain that desire i want permanent relationships i want permanent happiness i want a permanent house everything permanent it's living in that pain but what does it get frustration and despair because nothing is permanent and finally the desire ends where does it end in the same pain that it did not get anything clear i'll read that out now again out of pain desire is born in pain it seeks fulfillment and it ends in the pain of frustration and despair pain is the background of pleasure all seeking of pleasure is born in pain and ends in pain what is the truth let's start with the truth what is the truth impermanency is the truth what does the ego want permanency so want means what desire where is the desire born in the pain of impermanency this desire of permanency is born where does it keep seeking fulfillment in the same pain in the same truth of impermanency the desire is seeking oh made become permanent oh the next one will become permanent i will run after that and that will become permanent this will become permanent but does it become permanent has anything become permanent nothing is permanent the now is changing everything is changing moment to moment to moment finally this desire gets frustrated and it dies so where does it die in the same truth that everything is impermanent in the same pain so desire is born in pain it seeks fulfillment in pain and it dies in pain so the background of every pleasure is pain what is pleasure really it's a belief in the mind that i will get something permanent so the desire is born the desire for pleasure is only a desire you never really get it it's like that mirage you keep running behind the more you run behind it the the light on the sand the sunshine on the sand keeps moving further away yeah as a kid did you ever play chasing your own shadow could you ever catch it you can never catch your own shadow it's exactly like that exactly like that pleasure cannot be caught you cannot tag pleasure because it doesn't exist there is only pain the world is only pain yeah the ego still wants to say no no but i have this i'm very happy are you seeing that yeah came up so i have this and this has been with me few years at least i hope it will be till i die what a money name fame you wrote a book whatever you have the little thing that your little company company that you started your little business really see you in 10 years tell me then yeah it is only a hankering of the ego that this should be permanent nothing is permanent nothing is permanent nothing is permanent that same thing that you thought is giving me pleasure suppose a relationship that same thing that you thought is giving me pleasure suppose a relationship a beloved relationship oh this is my love my pleasure doesn't that same person become a tiger sometimes and the same person becomes a butterfly sometimes in the same person you're getting pleasure from the same person you're getting pain but ego wants to in this situation say what no no there is only pleasure there but that's again lies again it's pushing the truth under the carpet is that clear yeah uh you want permanent pleasure you don't get permanent pleasure you want to keep eating keep eating stomach says boss stop i cannot take this tongue still wants why why it's seeking pleasure on the bed of pain the bed of pain for it is impermanency and that cannot change it keeps thinking okay now this time this will be permanent that will be permanent so it's running behind me fame power whatever whatever whatever relationships second relationship third relationship marry four times five times see how much joy do you get when you do all the running around then you realize oh it's not there it's not there then when you get fed up and when you give up that is called virag now i'm done i'm not going to run behind anything even if it's something new that i've not run behind before i know it i know it there is no joy there that that complete i'm done the the feeling of i am done that is virag parama virag then that instantly builds the bridge to the other side instant because in every wave the truth is right in your face that it is yeah it's impermanent it's transient it's temporary yeah look that's why he says you look very deep examine critically you're not examining critically you're just looking at the big bank balance okay but you're not examining critically to maintain that so much stress you're going through solid amount of stress maintaining the house maintaining the car maintaining the investments the little bit market goes up and down see how you start getting a heart attack they're constant stresses they're constant but you're hiding that you're hiding the truth you're faking it there is constant pain in this world i have done a self-exploration also on it if you've not done it then that should be the first one you should get to yeah the mind cannot be happy very nice what you said is i'm going along with the world even if it is a lie so what at least it's my life what's the point how long how long do you think i'm going along with the world i'm going along with the world even if it is a lie so what at least it's my life what's the point how long how long one day you will stop chasing your own shadow one day you'll be done with it that is called by ranking that's when we get to maharaja's word instant bridges built maharaja's word instant bridges built so i'll read that again by its very nature pleasure is limited and transitory out of pain desire is born in pain it seeks fulfillment and it ends in the pain of frustration and despair pain is the background of pleasure all seeking of pleasure is born in pain and ends in pain questioner says all you say is clear to me but when some physical or mental trouble comes my mind goes dull and gray or seeks frantically for relief maharaj says what does it matter it is the mind that is dull or restless not you that is very important it is the mind that is dull or restless not you look all kinds of things happen in this room do i cause them to happen no they just happen so it is with you the role of destiny unfolds itself and actualizes the inevitable you cannot change the course of events but you can change your attitude and what really matters is the attitude and not the bare event he said see so many things happen in this room do i cause them to happen no i don't cause them to happen similarly so many things will happen at this vyakti vishwa level at the body mind person in the world level do i cause them to happen no i the witness only no i do not cause them to happen yes so the mind is gray and dull not me yeah whatever happens happens to the mind the mind is happy the mind is unhappy the mind is jumpy right now and excited oh the mind is depressed mind is depressed not you not you this is something that you must take down as homework can i recognize this yes and this body mind is going according to the pattern like i told you today the behavior will follow the attitude after a delay witness consciousness's attitude has changed but the behavior of the body mind is continuing on based on its past patterns still so this body objects argues in a situation oh the mind is in an arguing mode not me the mind is unhappy not me the mind is gray and dull not me instant recognition that moment moment here this is your training ground this is your next task can i stand away as the witness and recognize that right now whatever is happening is not me whatever it is like for me right now ekta is speaking not me i've been telling you this since day one i think now yeah so when for example you're in silence you're not speaking but you can walk say oh the body mind is in motion not me this recognition is very important yeah this body mind is eating lunch dinner water breakfast not me this body mind is sleeping on the bed not me this constant recognition should be there constant recognition 24 7 yeah so he gives you the same word that i've given you attitude he says you cannot change the course of events but you can change your attitude and what really matters is the attitude and not the event the event is not important you're walking you're eating whatever it's lying down the event is not important the body mind is upset angry depressed missing beloved ones whatever whatever is going on oh the story belongs to this yeah not me the instant recognition again and again recognizing it moment to moment for example right now the body mind person is making notes not me right now you can take the stand of the witness and observe that the body mind is taking notes on a previous command of take notes it has to complete its task shelf life it has to complete there is obviously a delay between attitude and behavior so what is maharaj saying what is more important attitude not this behavior not the course of events this is exactly what we do in the gurukul journal exactly yeah so when they actually go through yes this wisdom point i see it i am so clear about it but again i got into an argument relax that's the body mind that is not you the behavior will follow just hang on hang on till the attitude and behavior fall into the same line till that time you have to train the body mind the vyakti is a little slow like i told you it's the slow child of the family yeah whatever the course of events are they are just happening through this medium i am not the doer of them i'm not even experiencing them this is simply a medium like a tap is the medium for water to flow through it water flows through it that does not mean the tap is the the one responsible for the water no simply a medium wire is simply a medium for electricity to flow through it like that this body mind complex this entire thing is a medium for this to flow whatever is flowing in whatever course of events are going on simply a medium stay with that truth it's a medium it's a medium moment to moment you can't say okay i get it now tomorrow morning back to the same belief i am the body one no point moment to moment to moment to moment to moment again and again being in that recognition yes the world is the agode of desires and fears you cannot find peace in it please highlight it for peace you must go beyond the world the root cause of the world is self-love because of self-love we seek pleasure and we avoid pain replace self-love by love of the self and the picture changes perfect yeah replace self-love by love of the self and the picture changes brahma the creator is the sum total of all desires the world is the instrument for their fulfillment souls take whatever pleasure they desire and pay for them in tears please highlight it if you take pleasure what will you have to pay it back with tears simple very simple do you want to pay with tears then don't run off the pleasure it's okay if i don't get pleasure simple you can't say no i want pleasure also but i don't want tears no time squares all accounts the law of balance reigns supreme yeah balance between pleasure and pain reigns supreme questioner to be a superman one must be a man first manhood is the fruit of innumerable experiences desire drives to experience hence at its own time and level desire is right see he's justifying still so maharaj says all this is true in a way but a day comes when you have amassed enough and must begin to build then sorting out and discarding which is using viveka vairagya are absolutely necessary everything must be scrutinized and the unnecessary must be ruthlessly destroyed believe me there cannot be too much destruction for in reality nothing is of value be passionately dispassionate that is all that be passionately dispassionate towards this world that's the only way to look yeah how you so determined to run behind that money to run behind that beautiful woman or that handsome hunk how you were like so passionate about getting that success yeah but getting that power name fame 10 times more passion for being dispassionate towards all of it now passionately dispassionate don't care yeah and everything must be scrutinized and the unnecessary ruthlessly destroyed highlight till i don't destroy it there is no way up there i cannot get to the other world there cannot be too much destruction means how much ever you destroy is less how much ever you destroy is less you've not done enough you've not destroyed enough troubles name but he's saying how much ever means destroy destroy this idea of i get pleasure from relationships i get pleasure from money i get pleasure from this title i get pleasure from being an advaitan teacher i get pleasure from studying this scripture that book that sage all everything is illusion destroyed all become passionately dispassionate all of the waking world pick it up and put it in a trash bin i am done the entire waking world and the waker in the trash bin this is the meaning of being passionately dispassionate it can all be destroyed don't worry about destroying it it is anyway useless don't bother about it it is not of much value destroy it yeah your name your fame your money your power your position it's of no value he's saying destroy it good chapter is clear be passionately dispassionate all of it is trash throw it into the trash bin

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