Wise Effort In The Bedroom With Dr. Diana Hill

In this episode of The Wise Effort Show, Dr. Diana Hill discusses improving your sex life by applying the concept of 'wise effort.' Joined by sex therapist Jenn Kennedy, they explore how curiosity, mindfulness, and flexibility can transform sexual experiences. Listeners will learn practical tips for reviving passion, overcoming emotional blocks, and integrating playfulness and connection into their relationships.

The episode also covers the psychological foundations of sexual well-being and encourages listeners to try new approaches to enhance intimacy.

Disclaimer: This track includes the use and discussion of sexual topics and language.

Transcript

Hello,

And welcome back to the Wise Efforts Show.

I am Dr.

Diana Hill,

And have you been thinking about your sex life recently?

Maybe you want better sex,

Maybe you want more connection,

More joy,

More playfulness,

Or maybe you're just not interested in sex at all and you're wondering,

Where did that interest go?

How do I bring it back?

Well,

You are in the right place.

Because whether you're feeling stuck in the same routine or unsure how to reignite some passion in your long-term relationship,

You are not alone.

We all have a desire for deeper intimacy,

Authentic pleasure.

It is a shared human quest,

And today we are going to be talking about wise effort in the bedroom.

I'm so glad you clicked on this episode.

It's easy to think that if we just try harder,

Or if we ignore the issue,

That our sexual experiences will magically improve,

Right?

The truth is that unless you take a different perspective on it,

Unless you do something different about it,

Your old patterns are just going to drain your energy and you will stay stuck.

You're going to settle for less than what you really want in one of the most vital areas of your life.

So it's not just about sex,

Folks.

It's about connection,

Expression,

Feeling truly alive,

Being embodied,

Having that sexual energy that moves with you throughout your day.

Today we're going to dive into the concept of wise effort in the bedroom with my guest,

Jen Kennedy.

She's a sex therapist in Santa Barbara and she's turned the tables on me.

She interviewed me for her podcast.

I had interviewed her a while back on this show on female pleasure,

But today we're going to be taking the wise effort model and apply this concept of curiosity,

Opening up and focusing your genius energy to your sex life.

It can shift everything when you step out of the self stories that you have,

The self doubt,

The shame,

The old stale script in your head,

And actually direct your attention to what's happening in your body and open yourself up.

So Jen Kennedy and I are going to explore what energizes you in the bedroom.

You're going to notice what holds you back.

You're going to discover new ways of bringing awareness and playfulness to sex and get ready for some practical tips that I'll offer you at the end that you could use tonight or this morning or this afternoon,

As well as some broader perspectives that just might change how you view pleasure and connection altogether.

Settle in and we'll get started with a conversation about wise effort in the bedroom.

Let's dive in.

Okay.

Welcome back.

My guest this week is Dr.

Diana Hill.

She's a clinical psychologist,

International trainer,

And speaker helping people direct their energy toward what matters most.

Through her wise effort method,

She helps people play big in their careers,

Health,

And relationships.

So welcome.

Thanks.

It's good to be here with you,

Jen.

Yes.

And Diana and I are both local to Santa Barbara,

And I see you're very active in the community.

So I first met you as an attendee to one of your retreats,

And that was my first interaction with ACT and with wise effort.

Yeah.

Well,

It was so fun to have you there.

And there's something magical that happens on retreat where you step out of your professional self.

We would sit at these tables during lunch and dinner,

Off work,

Off our phones,

Connecting with people.

And one of the things about Jen that you should know about her is that she's a super attractor.

So people would come to the table as soon as they find out that you're a sex therapist,

They want to learn from you.

And it was so fun to have you there and your Viva La Vola bag everywhere,

Product placement across the beach.

But more than that,

Just to have another professional that is,

Maybe we're in parallel paths,

But we have some similarities in terms of our interests and how we want to serve our community and our practice.

Yeah,

It's nice to be in a place where someone else is in charge and to just sort of be able to to say,

Well,

What else?

Like teach me some new skills and just to be a participant sometimes.

And it was it was a wonderful place,

But it was also your leadership and that containment was was magical.

Well,

My mind can't help but go to sex since we're going to talk about sex.

When you say that,

Jen,

It's so nice sometimes to let someone else be in charge and have someone else hold the container.

And that also requires some degree of safety,

Some kind of agreements,

Some kind of build up to allowing that to happen.

And I actually think that's actually part of Y's effort is knowing when to surrender and let someone else take the lead.

And then also part of Y's effort is knowing when when you can step up and be in that place and take the lead in terms of our energy use.

Yeah,

Well,

You're going to play this game very easily,

Right?

The old game of everything at the end,

You add in bed.

Yes,

I think that's why people click on this episode.

If you put in bed on anything,

It's an instant click.

So,

Yeah,

We're going to have everything in bed.

It's pretty good.

Yeah.

So tell us more about the concept of Y's effort.

Well,

Y's effort,

It comes from actually the Buddhist Eightfold Path,

Which is the path to enlightenment in Buddhism.

There's all sorts of wise things that they ate things,

Ate wise things that were guided to do to become enlightened.

Things like wise speech and wise livelihood,

Wise concentration.

Y's effort is really this practice in from the Buddhist sense,

The practice of how are you using your energy?

If you're using it in ways that are not helpful to you,

That are harmful to you or harmful to others,

It's time to abandon those ways and channel your energy towards that which is beneficial towards you and towards others.

I took that concept and learned about it from the Buddhist perspective,

But then started looking at the psychological aspects of that concept.

First,

Looking at what is energy,

Really?

And from lots of different angles,

What is energy?

But then what does it mean to use our energy wisely?

What is our energy?

What is our genius energy?

What are our talents and strengths that we bring into the world?

What trips us up?

How do we get in unwise efforts?

And then how can we free ourselves to play bigger in our lives and all the important domains,

Including sex?

Right.

Because the idea is that if you're in wise effort,

Then you're having purpose and you're serving both self and other,

Other being partner,

Friendships,

Professional relationships,

All domains,

Right?

Then you're kind of in alignment and things are going well.

And also,

It makes me think of,

Too,

Like oftentimes I have couples who haven't had sex in a long time do this exercise,

Sensate Focus,

And there's multiple levels of it.

But the first level is literally just 10 minutes where each one takes a turn of giving or receiving.

So they each have a position of giving or receiving,

No genital touching,

They start clothed,

And one is giving,

One is receiving.

And I find that each of them typically are more comfortable in one position or the other.

And that will tap into them,

Which is relating to the genius energy,

Is that they're usually more comfortable either receiving or giving.

And what happens is that it illuminates where they're comfortable,

Where they feel more confident,

Where they feel more competent.

And when they're not allowed to talk,

Which causes distraction,

They're not allowed to be funny or goofy or,

You know,

There's no music happening,

There's no anything,

And there's no outcome.

There's no,

There's no anything,

There's just presence.

And there's just a starting of a re-engagement.

It can kick up a lot.

It sounds like a very simple exercise,

But it actually is very telling.

And it's a really rich exercise if couples choose to engage with it.

And I find that when they come back,

Typically they really want,

They were fine occupying one space,

They were very uncomfortable occupying the other space.

And that's just a starting place.

Yeah,

That's actually the part that I would get most curious about is what was going on internally for them that was actually blocking them from fully participating in the exercise.

One of the things that I work with people a lot on is these three blocks.

And I think it comes up in our relationship in the full expression of our,

You know,

Life force within our relationship is we get stuck in our heads.

We're in the story about what we're doing or what we're not doing,

What they're doing,

What they're not doing,

How we look,

How stupid this is.

We avoid the discomfort of awkwardness or feelings or intimacy or closeness or that exercise to be kind of uncomfortable.

You might feel a little bit embarrassed.

You might feel like this is new,

This is different.

And then the third one that really blocks people,

I think,

Sexually is the attachment to and clinging to things being a certain way or going a certain way.

And that's the outcome focus that can happen a lot with sex.

We get attached to having some kind of outcome that actually prevents us from enjoying the exploration that you're describing in that sensei focus exercise.

So that's what I would debrief after an exercise.

Like,

Did any of these three things happen for you?

And were you stuck in your head?

Were you avoiding discomfort or were you clinging to something?

And if so,

How is that actually blocking your genius energy from showing up?

Because it may be that they're more the initiator or the more receiver because that's truly their true nature to be in that place.

But it may be because they're actually blocked and they're not letting themselves do what they really wanted to do.

Like,

Maybe there was something they really were curious about that they were holding back from that they were preventing their partner from actually receiving.

They could have gotten,

They didn't get.

Well,

And as we start to unpack it and as they start to have a little more flow through both places,

It becomes much more enjoyable in general because if you're holding really tightly,

If you're being rigid and not having flexibility,

It's going to be very difficult to have ultimately a fulfilling sex life.

The rigidity and the guardedness of a single position and a redundancy of a single return to one type of approach isn't going to ultimately be that satisfying.

OK.

So let's talk about some examples of unwise effort that might come up in the bedroom.

So one of the examples you gave that I really liked was your attention is scattered.

I definitely see this with couples.

Their attention is scattered,

Either over-focused or maybe focused too much on self.

And it's on unhelpful things.

So they're preoccupied with how they look or how they sound or they're preoccupied on partner,

For example.

Like,

Unhelpful things that aren't going to actually get them more connected to self.

I think they're preoccupied also with kids walking in on them,

Getting to work on time,

All the things that pull us out of the moment.

Because it's not like we have endless amount of space and time to have sex in our busy lives.

And sometimes we're squeezing it in.

And the mind is this monitoring machine,

Right?

So it's natural for our mind to want to monitor.

The problem is,

As long as you're in that monitoring space,

It's really hard to get into the body.

Yeah.

So that can definitely lead to unwise effort.

Yeah.

So then you're not actually in your sensory side of things.

You're in that,

Like you said,

The monitor is like tracking and clock watching and doing all those things.

You're in it,

But you're not in it.

Another one is you're running away from your feelings.

So your feeling might be aversion or your feeling might be,

I'm so attracted to this person or I'm so into it that I'm feeling overwhelmed.

So it might be positive or negative.

There's also avoidance of just awkwardness.

The weird,

Awkward feelings that happen during sex that you need to just stay with,

Stay a little longer in.

It's like learning to play an instrument and the first few notes are sometimes off.

Sometimes you're getting started on something and it is off.

And how do you stay with that off feeling to get to the place where it starts to feel on?

That's kind of a normal thing in human relationships,

Right?

Yeah.

It's like running that first mile where everything just kind of aches and then you hit your stride.

Yeah.

Sex can feel like that.

And to your point,

Sometimes leading up to it can feel one way and then post-orgasm there can be a retreat and there can be a flood of emotions that sometimes creates bonding and sometimes creates panic.

Another one would be you feel like it's up to you alone to figure everything out.

And I would say in parentheses,

Do it right.

During partner in play.

Yeah.

Well,

This is something that happens in our lives and then translates into the bedroom,

Right?

So I certainly,

John,

You've experienced this with me.

I'm sort of like,

I'm in control.

I want it to go my way.

I want it to be in this order.

And it's hard for me to let go of that control because it's a trust issue.

If it's not all up to me,

Then what are you going to do?

And am I going to like what you do?

Are you going to take me to a place that I don't want to go?

Is it going to take me off an edge I'm not ready to go off of?

And that can be really uncomfortable both in and out of the bedroom.

So a lot of us are really equipped at containing our almost,

It's almost like unwise use of our energy and that we're overusing our genius to like,

You know,

Organize and control our lives.

And we need to step back and let their genius come in a little bit.

It's not all up to you.

They have their whole sexual genius talent strengths.

If you start noticing that about your partner,

It can be really exciting because they're going to bring something else to the table.

And then together,

You're going to create your own,

You know,

Experience that will be unique every time if you let go a little bit.

Well,

And I saw too,

I started to read the next chapter and I saw that sometimes the unwise can shift over with a frenemy,

I think is what you called it.

When it gets pushed,

It turns into the other side of things,

Right?

So a positive trait kind of turns into sometimes a liability.

Yeah,

Your genius energy can turn into a frenemy.

And again,

That genius energy has these qualities of it's your strengths,

It's your emotional intelligence,

It's your personality,

It's your interests.

So for example,

If you have genius energy in the bottom bar,

Really being interested in dominance and submission or something like that,

Like that really turns you on,

It's really exciting to you.

But every time you want it to be that way,

And maybe your partner is not like they're interested in that sometimes if they want to try out some other,

You know,

Other ways of being with you,

That that could really cause a rift in the relationship because you're putting so much energy into that focus as opposed to noticing,

Okay,

That's one of my interests,

That's one of the things that I'm kind of a genius out of being in the dominant position,

But I also need to be flexible with that.

So you want to get to know what energizes you sexually,

But then also how to be flexible with that and let the other person in.

And that's part of using your genius wisely.

And that's why we need to bring wisdom in to the picture.

Yeah.

So another piece of the book which I absolutely loved and I employed immediately after was the Nightmare Review.

And I thought,

Oh my God,

This is amazing.

It's terrifying and it's so useful.

And I think it could absolutely be helpful.

So can you talk about that a little bit?

Well,

That came from actually early on in writing the book.

My book coach asked me to write a Nightmare one-star review of my book if it came out.

It was so easy to write.

And it was so clear on what I didn't want.

So for many of us,

If we were to think about what would be the Nightmare Review of our sex life,

Like if we're looking back a year from now,

The type of sex that we don't want,

It gives you a little bit of insight into maybe some things that you need to shift or let go of so that that doesn't happen for you.

And even when I'm writing the Nightmare Review of the book,

You could think about how this could apply to your sex life.

So things like they held back,

Didn't let go.

They were so focused on looking good.

It never really felt that good,

Right?

It was boring and uninspired,

The same old thing.

I've seen this before.

Maybe your review would be something like it felt disconnected,

Like they didn't see me or hear me.

Or the worst Nightmare Review is that it went nowhere.

They gave up,

Right?

Blank page.

And you could imagine that for your book.

You could imagine that for your work.

But you could definitely imagine that for your sex life of what is the sex that you don't want?

And how are you participating in that?

It's a lot in a large part how you are showing up in it,

The energy that you're bringing to it.

Because we often blame it on external things.

And we don't always look at what inside of me is contributing to the thing that I don't want.

How am I holding back or learning myself?

I think initially they could point the finger and say like,

They went too fast.

Or they didn't pay attention to my pleasure in one way or another.

Or whatever,

X,

Y,

And Z.

But then also turning it on you.

What is your tendency?

How do you play small?

Or how do you tend to abandon yourself?

Or how do you walk away dissatisfied?

And so that exercise of like,

If you can just drop into your cringe and think back of how you've neglected yourself or how you've had disappointing sexual experiences in the past,

What is your Nightmare Review?

Because you're telling on yourself,

But you're also remembering what is your liability so you don't recreate it.

Yeah.

And we always have to be careful here.

Because I'm not talking about nightmare reviews of like traumatic sexual experiences.

I'm talking more about the ways in which you put some barriers up that prevented you from having the Genius Review,

The five-star sexual experience.

Hopefully,

We've gotten close to a five-star sexual experience at some point,

Maybe in our fantasy or in our real life.

And what would that be for you?

And that,

Again,

Would be very individual for every person.

It doesn't necessarily that you're having sex on the top of a skyscraper.

It just may be that you showed up or you felt a certain way with a person you thought really connected.

Maybe you felt an adventurous side of you,

A playful side of you that came out.

And that,

Again,

Just starting to explore what that could be for you and how would you need to show up?

How would you need to use your energy to be a player in creating that?

It's so unique,

Right?

Everybody's piece,

Like the pieces that would be meaningful for them or erotic for them or intriguing for them are unique.

So knowing what those are for you,

Being able to pull those from peak experiences and bring those in,

And then also knowing what you don't want,

Knowing what your go-to is sometimes when you get lazy or sort of disconnected or unwise in your effort,

When you're trying to rush through it or whatever,

And not doing those,

Consciously not doing those to create a new experience.

I think it's a very powerful exercise.

Let's talk about,

Because I want to give some practical skills that listeners can kind of walk away with.

So in the book,

I have this whole method.

The first part of it is really about getting curious about the places that we're stuck,

Getting curious about what our genius energy is.

Then the second part is about opening up,

Opening up our minds,

Opening up to emotions,

Opening up our sense of self,

Opening up our behavior.

The last part is about focusing our energy in the important domains of our life.

With opening up,

I was thinking about three different practices that I use quite a bit in my work with clients,

But also I use for myself.

The first one has to do with a lot of that sensate focus that you were talking about,

Jen,

Which I call it one eye in and one eye out.

You don't have to do this only in the bedroom.

You could actually do this out to dinner with somebody,

Or you could do this on a walk with somebody,

Or even just while you're cuddling on the couch with somebody,

Where you start with one eye in,

And you're paying attention to what it feels like to be in your body in the presence of this person.

Where are you noticing in your body a tingling or a little energy?

I often feel like something right behind my eyes.

I notice that.

For me,

That's where,

For whatever reason,

That's where sexual energy shows up sometimes.

All these spaces that we wouldn't know,

This intraceptive awareness of our body.

Sensate focus within,

But then we toggle from one eye in to one eye out.

What are you noticing about them?

What are you noticing about what's behind their eyes?

What are you noticing about what their moves are?

What are you noticing about their smell,

Their taste,

Their touch?

That's really exciting too.

Both of those,

The one eye in,

One eye out,

Moving back and forth,

Will definitely get you out of your story.

It'll get you out of your head.

It'll get you into the experience.

That's a really tangible skill and it's based on curiosity and it's based on mindfulness and it works really well if you find that you get caught up in your head a lot.

I like that being also because some people can very easily go to other and they focus everything on partner,

But the value of staying also with your own experience and checking in with self while paying attention to partner and having that simultaneous experience.

That's great.

Yeah,

I'm going to definitely use that.

Then another one that I really like to use is actually one that we did while we were on retreat,

Which is the yes,

Yes,

Thank you,

Thank you mantra.

We did it with just a walking meditation.

We got barefoot and we walked outside and with each step we said,

Yes,

Yes,

Thank you,

Thank you.

I see that as a mantra of opening up the self and being in a place of gratitude,

Thank you for this experience,

This moment.

You could think about that with a sexual experience or with your partner.

If we're in the just yes to what is and in a place of gratitude,

Thank you,

Thank you to my body,

Thank you to that feeling,

Yes to that.

It's a little bit of also like that improv move of you say yes to whatever's thrown at you and then you kind of flow with the energy of it.

It's a great one.

You could also say that out loud and it's a great thing to verbalize during sex.

People will appreciate it.

It's like you're on the right track.

And communicating that,

Like what's working for you.

Yes,

Right.

There's something in that.

And even people who are hesitant to have dirty talk,

When they hear yes or thank you or that feels good,

Any sort of affirmation,

Very positive.

Oh,

Yeah,

Yeah.

I really think using your voice is another way to like,

Again,

It contacts your inner source of energy.

Our voice moves through our whole body.

It's a vibration through our whole body.

And if you do that with your partner,

It's another way of expressing your genius energy.

Just using your voice and saying yes or saying thank you.

But you could also just try it on your walk or on your run or in your yoga class and notice how that shifts your energy in your body.

I remember doing that walking meditation in Costa Rica with you.

You sent us out to do that for a bit.

And I am not a big meditator and I found that transformational.

It was amazing.

Like just that repetition,

I found all these things to be grateful for.

And I felt this energy rise afterwards.

It was really interesting.

I was so into it and I've done it since and I love it.

I thought it was really cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

So the first exercise of One Eye In,

One Eye Out is playing with the psychological skill of curiosity.

The second exercise,

Which we know curiosity is probably the best sex toy that you can have.

Curiosity,

Right?

You don't have to buy it.

It's always accessible to you.

It activates your word centers and your brain.

It makes you want more of it.

And it's nonjudgmental.

You can't be curious and judgmental at the same time.

The second one of Yes,

Yes,

Thank You,

Thank You is a psychological skill as well.

And that's the psychological skill of gratitude.

And with gratitude,

It's an open receiving stance.

When we're grateful,

It's we're receiving something.

Now we're being blessed by something.

And so when we practice gratitude,

Then we're naturally opening up.

And in order to have good sex,

You kind of need to be,

You need to be open physically,

Emotionally,

Spiritually.

Yeah.

When we feel grateful,

We both,

It's both feels good,

Right?

We both in a grateful space.

It benefits both parties to feel grateful.

And what's number three?

Okay.

Number three,

I think is try something new,

Anything new.

This is a,

This is a,

The basics of behavioral psychology.

If somebody is stuck,

You suggest them to do anything.

But what they are doing small to get unstuck.

And then you find out what works through that exploratory process.

So doing something new,

Anything new is really part of what evolution,

Like when we talk about the behavioral evolution of all species is having something new pop up and going for it and trying it out.

It may be something new.

You know,

We all hear about like,

Try sex on the,

I don't know why the kitchen table is always the place that people recommend having sex,

But you don't have sex on the kitchen table.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that.

It could be something as new as wearing something different that you don't usually wear.

Even during your day,

It could be something as new as,

Um,

Dropping some hints throughout the day to your partner.

It could be a new playlist.

I'm really into music and the sexual energy of music when I go running or when I listen in the car and having a new playlist,

Don't listen to the same old stuff,

Or maybe digging up your playlist from your twenties and play some of those songs.

But these are new ways of just inserting new energy into your sex life,

Yourself,

Yourself with a lot of those,

Right?

If you wear pretty underwear all day long,

Or if you're listening to music or you're starting to do some of this,

You're priming yourself for interaction.

Totally.

Totally.

I've had women come into my products and talk about like,

Um,

Getting wax,

Probably men too,

Getting wax,

Like how that was like,

So like that just totally sparked something for them.

These are things that we don't talk about when we talk about it.

Maybe after 40,

I talk about these things a lot more with my friend groups,

But these new ways,

Maybe you're listening to something,

You're reading something,

You're doing something to your body that is new and it makes you feel alive and energized.

That can spark a lot of interest in your sex life.

And also from your partner,

Because they may notice a new smell,

You put on a different lotion or little things.

It doesn't,

Again,

Have to be on the kitchen table.

It could be.

Yeah.

I like that.

Just doing something,

Anything different.

It does.

It starts to say,

Okay,

I'm showing some willingness and some interest in engaging with you or engaging with self.

You know,

This can all apply to yourself too.

Reading some erotica,

Listening to something,

Watching something that is arousing.

All of it starts to wake the mind up a little bit.

Yeah.

We get into habits with sex and some of these habits are really good habits.

It's great.

I actually think that couples that have a habit of,

You know,

A certain day of the week that they've committed to,

That's great because it means that they're still,

You know,

Making that commitment to each other.

And like any habit,

It can get stale and it can lose its energy.

Actually,

I was just reading Pema Chodron this morning and she said,

Habits are like clothes.

You can put them on and you can take them off.

And I was like,

Pema,

She's a Buddhist nun.

Habits are like clothes.

You can put them on,

You can take them off.

So looking at your habits,

Sometimes we don't even notice our habits around sex.

We don't even notice that we have this whole same foreplay.

We have the same routine.

And some of them may be totally fine.

But if you were to try something new,

You may insert more energy into that experience.

And then you can go back to your habit too,

But maybe mixing some of that up a little bit.

Well,

And I know that you said it's psychological flexibility along with mindfulness is responsible like for change and from like a predictor of well-being,

Right?

So having that flexibility,

Having that willingness is huge.

When they've done like large scale studies of intervention studies of what is it that contributes to people changing in their lives,

You would think it would be like it's social support or it's- Financial gain.

Financial changes.

Yeah.

Really in psychology,

They call it the mechanism action,

The process of change is psychological flexibility.

It's your ability to stay open,

Your ability to stay present,

Your ability to align yourself with your values,

Stay aligned with your values,

All of that in the presence of discomfort.

I do think that the bedroom is both a phenomenally fun place and a really uncomfortably awkward place.

So to get to the fun,

You have to be in the awkward.

Yes.

Our bodies are awkward.

They make weird sounds.

They look weird.

Nobody's body looks like the body that they think that our body is supposed to look like.

And so all of that is just kind of being exposed.

It's just really a vulnerable,

Raw space.

So we have to be psychologically flexible.

We have to use wise effort if we want to experience maybe the alive vitality that we can potentially experience our life and to change what we want to change.

Well,

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Wise Effort Podcast.

Wise Effort is about you taking your energy and putting it in the places that matter most to you.

And when you do so,

You'll get to savor the good of your life along the way.