Find Your Strengths & Break Some Rules With Dr. Bachik

This episode is an extra special one! One of Diana’s best friends, Dr. Alexis Karris Bachik joins her to reflect on the year. Together they explore what values they lived out in 2022, their health routines, difficulties with letting go, and the behind-the-scenes of their friendship, book writing, and more!

Transcript

What values did you live out most this year?

What healthy habits did you develop?

And what did you let go of?

These are some of the questions that we're going to explore today with one of my very best friends on this very special episode,

Dr.

Alexis Karras-Bachek.

This is the last episode of the season and the last episode of the year.

I'm so glad that you're here.

We launched Your Life in Process 49 episodes ago,

The beginning of January of 2022.

And when I set up this podcast,

I set it up as seasons so that we could live seasonally together.

This is some of my mission in life is to push hard,

Rest hard,

Right?

Very much in line with what Alyssa Eppel talks about,

This intermittent stressors and deep rests.

So we're at the end of another season and we're going to take a few weeks off after this episode.

I'm going to go on retreat and I hope that you take some downtime in this new year to do your own way of resting and restoring.

This episode is a really special one to me because when I was thinking about who to have on,

I was debating between my husband and my really good friend,

Alexis.

And Alexis won,

My poor husband,

He was all geared up to go,

But I was a little bit worried about going there.

Maybe he'll come visit us in the next season if you reach out to me and say you really want to hear from him.

But Alexis is a dear friend of mine.

She is one of my best friends in the whole wide world and you will quickly see why after listening to this episode.

And we also talk about a special thing that's coming up,

A new membership in the new year.

I'm going to share a little bit about why we decided to offer this membership and what it is and how you can sign up for it at yourlifeinprocess.

Com.

And I will see you back in mid-January with some very special episodes.

I will spill the beans that our first episode back is going to be with Dr.

Stephen Porges.

That is exciting and we have some other great people coming on the show as well.

Many blessings and happy new year to you all.

Welcome to this very special episode with Dr.

Alexis Karras.

It's our end of year episode and I wanted to bring someone on that not only can help us wrap up the year but also launch us into the new year.

Welcome,

Dr.

Karras.

Good to see you.

Good to see you too,

Diana.

Thanks for having me.

Yes.

This is the third time that I've interviewed you.

The first time was on positive psychology and goal setting.

And then the second time was on infertility and pregnancy loss.

And today we are going to talk about the new year,

About the podcast,

But also about our friendship.

A personal introduction to Alexis before I give you the professional one.

She is one of my very best friends and we have been friends for 21 years.

That seems outrageous to me.

Yes.

It's been a long time.

We've been friends a long time,

Almost half of my whole life.

So yes,

We've been friends a really long time and a lot of our friendship actually has been built around psychology,

Which is kind of cool because we went to graduate school together and learned,

We became psychologists together and we talk about psychology a lot,

But also just talk about our own personal lives as well.

Dr.

Karras is also a professor of psychology.

She received her PhD in clinical psych from the University of Colorado at Boulder,

Went on to UC Santa Cruz,

And now is at Metro State Denver where she teaches positive psychology.

A lot of her research has been in strengths and looking at how positive character strengths in college students relate to mental health outcomes,

Such as depression and drinking and anxiety and wellbeing.

And she is on the heels of final exams right now.

You just had,

You finished up your final?

Yeah,

I just finished yesterday.

Very exciting.

We had a conversation,

Our prep for this podcast was basically me on a run and you driving to go give a final exam and just sort of checking in.

Are we going to do it?

That's right.

It's a normal day for both of us,

Isn't it?

Yeah,

Normal day.

So welcome,

Alexis.

Good to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so lucky and grateful for our friendship and really excited to do this end of year interview where we go back and forth a little bit with some questions.

So back and forth with some questions.

I,

At the end of every year,

Come up with this list of questions and we have this group of friends that I send it out to and I will say,

You know,

Not everyone completes the list.

Not everyone answers it,

But hey,

Every year I try.

You do try.

At least you come up with the questions.

We think about it.

We read them and think about it.

That's right.

I thought it'd be nice to share it with our listeners,

These sort of review questions,

But I also know that you have some questions in store for me up your sleeve,

Which you did not reveal to me ahead of time and I trust you completely to make me feel uncomfortable.

You're very brave.

I'm glad I have your trust.

So how do you want to start?

Well,

Let me just start with one of your questions.

How about that?

Okay.

So question number one,

What value did you live out most in 2022?

That is a great question because it's actually the one that I just posted on.

I've been posting the questions one at a day on Instagram and so I've been answering them myself.

And that the answer to that one for me was courage,

Which is actually not,

It's a value of mine,

But actually something that I think for a lot of my life,

I didn't always live out or show courage.

And so for me,

It was courage in the arena of work and taking some more risks at work of showing up more as myself on this podcast,

Incorporating some of the things that I would usually just sort of have in my personal life,

But wouldn't bring into my professional life,

Things like yoga and my contemplative practice and all of the things that I think are a little bit woo-woo in the academic world.

But that has been a courageous leap for me to do that.

And how has that gone for you?

With any kind of courageous move,

At least how I experienced courage is that there's that initial sort of dopamine burst of excitement,

Like,

Wow,

I did something really hard.

And then sometimes there's a little bit of a dip that happens to me afterwards.

So especially with things like podcasts or big presentations where maybe I showed up in a bolder way afterwards,

I can notice my self-critic is especially hard on me,

Questioning,

Nitpicking,

That sort of the vulnerability hangover that we talk about sometimes.

So I've noticed more of that.

And that's some of the cost of being courageous is that it can be uncomfortable in the short term.

And then long term,

I think it strengthens me.

Those have been some of my most favorite parts of your podcast is when you share with the audience some things that they probably wouldn't have known otherwise.

And you had that courage and bravery more recently in your grieving podcast when you were talking about how you might write a letter to your esophagus,

For example,

And offer some self-compassion to your esophagus and your esophagus could write back to you or talk back to you.

And I was wondering if you would be willing,

This is one of my questions.

Oh,

Jeez,

You're going first.

I'm going right in.

You just opened the door about values.

And so your value of courage,

That you've been really courageous.

And that was actually one of my questions was like,

Could you tell us a little bit more about that?

Are you willing to do that today?

Yeah.

Does it feel too intense?

Too intense?

Well,

Yeah,

It always feels too intense.

But I will say that's actually the line that I had.

So I have this beautiful editing software where I can just take out something if I want to take it out.

And I got to that line.

And I was like,

Oh,

I just kind of want to take that whole,

Like,

Why did I say that?

I want to take the whole thing out.

And it's one of those in the moment when you're interviewing,

It just came to my mind.

It flowed through me.

It was the truth.

And so the relationship with my body is something that I've shared a lot more about on the podcast and really just disclosed.

It was about a year ago that I disclosed in a professional way about my history.

And my esophagus in general is like the part of my body that I have the most sadness and shame around.

That and my teeth.

And you know this,

Alexis,

Because they hold my history.

And no one really sees them,

Unless you're my dentist,

Dr.

Heno,

The best dentist of all time that will go in,

Works on my teeth.

And I feel so anxious every time he does it.

And I actually,

I think maybe it was a couple of years ago,

I had a scope down my esophagus.

And I remember going into that scope feeling like the doctor was seeing everything about me,

Like my whole history by just going down my esophagus.

It's related to my eating disorder,

Obviously,

Many years of struggling with bulimia.

Yeah.

And I appreciate you sharing that vulnerability more directly with the audience,

Because we all have those shame centers and parts of our bodies that we want to talk to and nurture and have some more self-compassion.

And we can often feel like these are things that we've worked through in our lifetimes through graduate school,

Our own personal therapy and so forth.

And yet they can creep up at all times of life,

Too,

Right?

I feel the same in my own life.

Yeah.

So the table's turning here,

Alexis.

How about for you?

You open the door a tiny bit.

Open it some more.

Okay.

I guess the value that I lived out the most in 2022 was probably just heightening my consciousness.

I think that this is a year where I have been able to see things and people for what they truly are and are capable of versus the way I would like to see them.

And sometimes we don't want to see,

Specifically for my mother.

And so I feel like I've been able to see her flaws and really kind of absorb the enormity of what that means for me as the daughter of her.

And I can't go back.

I cannot go back.

So really sitting with the pain and the clarity of what that relationship really is and what it isn't,

What the capabilities are and what they are not,

That's been really kind of what I've most taken out of 2022 in terms of my concentration.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It really is such that example that we've talked a lot about in the podcast about experiential avoidance.

And we think that by not looking at something or not feeling it,

Whether it's our esophagus or our relationship with our mother,

That somehow we're protecting ourselves from it.

But it's actually in turning towards it and seeing it clearly.

It's like you're doing your own personal scope of your mom.

The total personal scope.

Okay,

Yeah.

What is really there that's real?

And how have I blocked myself from that?

And then we can move into acceptance and potentially action if action is needed or inaction by choice as opposed by inaction by avoidance,

Which is different.

Exactly.

And I've had some good long phone calls with you around that.

Yes.

You've been incredibly,

Incredibly helpful.

And it's amazing to me that it's taken me so long.

I'm almost 45 years old and it's only now.

It's not that my mother has been any different.

It's just more of a like aha moment for me now to have that clarity and to be able to process everything and look at it.

And there are benefits,

No doubt,

No doubt.

It's painful and there's a grieving process to it.

But I think that ultimately,

These are the experiences and the moments of self-reflection that help us grow as people.

I feel like relationship with parents,

Pretty much everyone has at least one parent they struggle with.

What advice based on what you've been through in this clarity this year,

Would you have for folks around their relationship as adults with their adult parents,

Either living or then?

Just to not be afraid to explore that relationship internally,

Really see things for what they are.

I thought listening to other podcasts about what were really helpful to me,

Including some of yours,

But I think I benefited the most from reading adult children of emotionally immature adults.

That book really resonated with me.

Oh my gosh.

You said that to me.

Meg McKelvey,

Our common friend.

This book just,

I felt like it was written for me.

And it made sense of everything I had experienced growing up as a child and as a young adult to current day experiences and interactions that I have with my mother that have been frustrating and difficult.

And so learning from someone else and this is an area of specialty really helped me gain this understanding of how to just conceptualize my relationship with my mother.

So I would highly recommend reading some of the books and listening to the podcast that can really help you explore those relationships where you might be working with someone who really just doesn't have the capacity to have an intimate relationship.

And a lot of the work,

As you said,

Is about you with yourself.

Your relationship with your mother as you hold it in your memories and your current experience and your ruminations and your desire to control,

All of that is really,

It's an inner job and it may or may not show up externally in how you relate to them.

Yeah,

Exactly.

It's completely 100% internal.

Yeah,

Great.

Thank you for that recommendation.

Yeah.

Okay.

What did you let go of this year,

Diana?

Oh,

I have really,

Really,

Really let go of changing my parents in any way.

Speaking about parents,

I just love them for completely who they are,

Which has been our relationship with our family members is the one that I think oftentimes we hold on to.

So I feel like I don't feel that urge anymore to correct them or use judgment to kind of encourage them to be different.

And I see them in a way where I appreciate them a lot more.

And I actually think that is a gift that I have received from my clients because I've seen the transformation that happens for my clients when they do that with their loved ones,

Or they do that with their partner,

Where they just fully accept who this human is,

Let go of trying to control or change them,

And look for the nuggets that they can appreciate and water those.

So that's a gift from my clients that I've learned from them.

I learned so much in my clinical work every day.

And does that still hold when your parents might get on your nerves or say something that's upsetting to you?

What happens in those situations that are inevitable?

Well,

It's not that I don't get irritated.

I still can get irritated,

Or I still can have that eye roll moment,

As we all do.

But I'm no longer.

.

.

I think there was a period of my life where there was this,

They need to change in some way for me to feel close to them,

Or they need to change in some way for.

.

.

It was a bit of self-righteousness,

I think,

Really on my part.

And I notice the irritation,

Or I notice the judgment,

Or I notice whatever those old patterns are,

And I'm just able to drop it and not take that path.

It's very much the Sorochi toward values,

Away from values moment for me,

Because if I take the path of irritation,

It moves me away from my values of the relationship that I want to have.

And it's futile.

It doesn't work.

How have you best been able to enjoy those relationships?

My closest one is my mom.

We have this card deck in our house.

It's like a family questions card deck,

And we played it dinner time a lot with our kids.

And it's like you pull a question,

And then you ask,

What is my favorite color?

And then everyone answers it.

And we were playing last night.

I pulled a question,

And it said,

Who is it that you call the most in your family?

And they all said,

Nana,

Because they knew.

I talk to her every day.

And I have had,

Let's just say,

My relationship with my mom has not been this great my whole life.

So it is something that I just cherish,

And I appreciate,

And I can do a better job of appreciating her every day.

So how that manifests is just through allowing her to be who she is,

And seeing that she is also in me,

And also accepting the parts of her that are in me,

Rather than rejecting the parts of her that are in me,

And just being grateful.

I do use a lot of impermanence with my parents as they get older.

And I have friends that have lost parents and clients that don't have their parents alive anymore.

And so I'm just grateful to have parents that are alive right now.

Yeah.

I needed to hear that.

Can I flip the,

Turn the tables on the question for you?

Sure.

I don't remember what the question was.

Well.

Oh,

Okay.

What did you let go of this year?

Okay.

Well,

What did you let go of this year,

Alexis?

I don't know.

I think this isn't a great question for me to answer because I'm still in the process of trying to let go.

It's really hard for me.

I'm really struggling with it.

Like I want to let go.

I even,

And I've struggled with this over and over,

Like letting go with wanting a second child when I was struggling with infertility.

It was just so hard for me to let go of the fact that this was a failure in my life.

I even at one point took a little cardboard box,

Painted it and wrote,

Let it go.

And I put it in my garage so that every time I was parking my car,

I couldn't help but see this sign that said,

Let it go.

And I even drew a little image of a person holding a balloon,

Like letting the balloon go.

I think this is just something that I'm going to be going back to over and over and over again,

Letting it go.

And so right now letting it go,

What I'm trying to work on is letting go of the fantasy of the relationship that I thought I had with my mother and really absorbing the limits to our relationship.

And so far it's still a little bit unacceptable to me.

It's unacceptable to me that we would be able to have some deep conversations and that it's much more superficial when we talk about things.

I find that so unacceptable.

It's really hard for me to let go of that because this is my mother.

I'm able to have these intimate relationships with you and other friends and other people.

And I want it with her.

But when I've tried and when I've attempted to do that,

It's met with a lot of anxiety on her end and really a rigidity and an inability to go there.

And so I'm really working on accepting that.

And rather than trying to push for what I want to see how can I make it so that we have that sort of relationship that I crave,

How can I let it go and start to really just enjoy each other in the ways that we can enjoy each other without expectation of this deeper dimension?

And so I don't know that I can honestly say that I've been able to let it go quite yet,

But I think that is a goal for me for 2023.

Can I give you some feedback?

Sure.

So if we recall back to the feedback episode that I had with Abby and we talked about there's like three types of feedback.

There's the appreciation feedback,

And then there's the coaching feedback,

And then there's like the corrective feedback.

Oh yeah,

Which one do you want to give me again?

Okay,

I can easily give you appreciation feedback,

But can I give you some coaching feedback on this one?

Yes.

Yes.

So I wonder about,

And this is just on the heels of the Francis Weller grief episode about the five gates of grief.

And one of those gates is grieving what we expected but did not receive.

And if we think about your struggles with infertility and the struggles with now you're also talking about your mom,

Sometimes the block for us in letting go,

And I think letting go is something we just repeatedly do.

It's like taking a breath and taking an exhale.

It's like we repeatedly exhale,

Right?

We repeatedly let go.

But sometimes what prevents us from letting go is that we don't want to feel grief.

And that there may be some grief work there,

Which I know you've done,

But there may be some grief work there around what you expected and did not receive.

Absolutely.

I think you're right on.

And that's the area where I want to spend more time because I think that's going to be my pathway through.

And I've had some more moments of just crying,

Literally crying and processing,

Thinking on my own,

But I'm actually planning on trying to find someone that will help me assist in this process on a professional level too.

I think that's just so critically important.

I had that sort of support when I was grieving through infertility and loss,

And now I'm looking for it for processing the grief of what I hoped for in my relationship with my mother.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Living with someone else is always helpful.

Good.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

If not you.

Okay.

Ready for another question?

Yeah.

Okay.

What book impacted you the most in 2022?

I already said what mine was,

And that was adult children of emotionally immatured parents.

So what book would you say impacted you the most?

This is like children.

I cannot,

It's so hard to choose one because I have the podcast books,

Right?

So the books that I read,

Dopamine Nation is the one that always comes to mind.

But there actually is a book.

I don't know if I talked to you about this.

So I have the books that I keep on my table that I read in the mornings.

And the reason why it impacted me is an interesting one.

So one of them is The Inner Tradition of Yoga by Michael Stone.

And it's one of the most beautiful descriptions of yoga and more of the lived experience,

Not just the asana of yoga,

But the lived experience of yoga and philosophy of yoga that I've ever read.

These are profoundly beautiful books.

And so I've been reading and rereading this book.

And then one day I was like,

Why haven't I ever looked up this guy?

Who is Michael Stone?

I've never looked this guy up,

Right?

I just have been reading his book and just loving it.

And who is he?

So I look it up and he's dead.

And he died potentially of a drug overdose.

No way.

And he most likely had bipolar disorder.

He's a very well-known.

.

.

People still follow him on Instagram and there's all these teachings of his online.

And so the reason why that was the most impactful book is because now I read it with a different lens when I read it of here's this person that I put on this pedestal of having his whole life together.

And was he writing this when he was manic?

Was he writing this when he was using?

Was he writing this when he was well?

And which parts were informed by which?

And it just made me feel so.

.

.

I'm really touched by this,

Obviously.

It made me feel so human in my own struggles and also in what I see in my office of clients that on the outside maybe look like they have everything together and that they have beautiful families or beautiful careers or whatever,

Beautiful people.

But inside the reality is we're all human that struggle.

So Michael Stone's inner tradition of yoga,

Most impactful book.

I love it.

If you wrote a memoir,

If you wrote a book about 2022,

What would be its title?

Coming Up For Air.

This is a line that Meg McKelvey,

Our shared friend,

Has said to me a couple of times when I called her and she's like,

You just need to come up for air,

These moments of coming up for air.

And I think especially here we are in post pandemic or whatever people want to describe about that of just this really intense time.

And there's been pockets of feeling like this year has been a feeling of coming up for air at times.

But it's coming up for air to then go back under.

It's not like I'm fully floating on it by any means.

But what it means to me to come up for air and having an understanding of what helps me come up for air and its friendships or in nature or for me removing myself from my life sometimes to come up for air and see clearly about how I want to spend my time,

What really matters to me.

So if you were to look back,

Do you have a daily planner,

Like a tangible daily planner or do you have everything on your phone?

I actually don't know this about you.

Yeah,

I have two calendars.

This is the annoying thing about being a therapist.

You have to keep two calendars because you have your calendars with I have a calendar with all my clients names on it,

My simple practice calendar.

So that's what I live and breathe off of.

But then I also have a recommendation for folks.

It's called fantastical.

So I have those two calendars,

But I don't keep a daily planner.

No.

Okay.

So this is on your computer and on your phone.

Phone calendar.

Yeah.

Phone.

It's phone slash computer.

Yeah.

So if you were to look on it from 2022 and all the events and all the things that you did,

The trips,

I don't know,

Baseball games,

That sort of thing.

What would be some of your highlights?

Okay.

Highlight,

Hands down highlight was taking the group of people that I took to Costa Rica,

You know,

Going any moment in blue spirit,

Costa Rica is a highlight for me.

And in particular on that trip,

This one evening where we created a,

Like a group altar together,

And then we all laid down on our backs,

Like around it in this circle.

And I felt this overwhelming feeling of like deep connection with our planet.

It was during Earth Day.

It was like all of those things.

So that was a highlight.

And a related highlight was also meeting some of the people that I idolize,

Like Elissa Apple and Dan Siegel and Jack Kornfield and all those people,

Costa Rica.

So that's like sort of professional highlights,

But personal highlights.

Oh,

I'm going to have to pause on this one,

Alexis.

Why don't you,

Why don't you answer yours and then I'll,

And then I'll see if I can circle back to a personal.

Yeah.

So I read this somewhere and now I'm asking you because I think it's meaningful with all the things that we do when we schedule and we put into our calendars to take the moment to kind of look back at which were the things that were most important to you.

And so when I look back,

I,

It's sadly,

It's not professional.

I don't think I can think of a single professional experience that just really kind of jumps out at me.

It's probably all those little micro moments when I'm teaching where I make real meaningful connections with students.

So I didn't necessarily put it into my calendar sort of thing,

But it just happens.

And usually it happens because I'm attuning to what the student is saying or needing and we're able to have like a meaningful interaction and connection.

So those moments,

Those small moments that happen frequently with colleagues,

With students,

Those are kind of really good.

But when I look at the things that I actually like scheduled,

It's always like the birthday party dinners or like the times that I'm getting together with my friends.

Like I scheduled an impromptu,

Like just,

Okay,

I'm going to head to Boulder on Friday and I'm only going to be able to spend three hours with my best friend from college,

But I haven't seen her in forever.

And we're just going to go to a coffee shop and sit and chat.

And I literally did that.

It was in my schedule.

We did it.

And it was just like,

This was so meaningful and rewarding for me.

Like I need to build these little gaps of time that I have in my schedule for meaningful connection with my friends,

Period.

Otherwise,

When I look back on my calendar,

I never regret exercising and working out.

And that's something that's kind of been a little bit more hit or miss for me since COVID.

I've always been a really reliable exerciser,

Very consistent.

I just brought a lot of enjoyment,

But I have noticed the last three years,

It's just been much more up and down.

But I do look at that as a regular part of my life that is,

You know,

Just I get a lot out of it.

So that's something that I would want to carry forward for 2023 as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those highlights being such an indicator of what our values are,

What bring us meaning and purpose and also,

You know,

The small little drops in the bucket that we can feel proud of when the exercise,

Like over time,

That consistency is something also to kind of look back on.

It makes me think of Daniel Pink's episode about regret and how we can look back on our life and it tells us a lot about what is important to us.

So I was thinking you were going to say something related to your sons and you have two boys,

I do.

Oh,

The most adorable,

Besides my most adorable boys,

Very,

Very adorable boys.

And actually what came to mind as you were talking about a highlight,

Which is an unexpected one is with my youngest son.

And I've shared a little bit about like my struggle.

I don't think I've shared it on this podcast,

But a little bit about my struggle postpartum with him and difficulty with attaching because of postpartum.

But a highlight has been taking him horseback riding.

One of his friends rides horses and she just invited us to go after school on Fridays.

And I have a very risk aversive son,

Like he's does not like to do it.

He's like me,

Doesn't like to do anything scary.

And so the courage,

Like seeing somebody else do a courageous thing that you love,

There is nothing better than that on the planet.

Like you feel so excited for them,

Whether it's your kid getting up on a stage or,

You know,

Your partner doing something courageous or your good friend doing something courageous.

So that has been just a highlight watching his courage grow and his little sitting up straight and be on this giant horse,

This little tiny guy.

And it's really sweet.

It's a little cowboy boots and all.

Did you try it too?

I have not.

Part of it,

Okay,

I have good excuses.

Part of it is that their saddle is so tiny.

My behind would not fit on this thing,

But this could be a goal for me for 2023.

Yes,

I do not like going fast.

I do not like falling from high things.

Like all of this stuff,

I just,

I need to work on.

Oh my gosh,

That's so funny,

Diana.

I know it's always been a value.

Bravery and courage is a value of yours,

Even if it's lower on your character strengths,

Relatively speaking,

But it's always been a value of yours.

Tell us about that difference between character strengths and values,

Because that is what your research is in.

So character strengths.

Well,

I like to use,

I mean,

There are many different character strengths,

Like positive.

These are positive attributes about oneself that are universally recognized and idolized and so forth.

And they bring a lot of wellbeing and happiness to us.

And I remember from interviewing you that your top strengths were,

Let me see if I get it straight.

The first one was love,

And your second was kindness.

And then I think your third was,

Help me out,

What was your third?

I don't even remember.

I have to go back and take this.

This is something you can actually take the test online.

Right.

Okay.

We'll link to it.

Authentichappiness.

Org.

It's free.

You just have to enter your information,

But then you'll have 240 questions and they'll all get at your strengths.

And the computer will literally generate a list of your strengths from top to bottom.

And usually the top five strengths are the ones that are more like you,

Authentically you.

And these are strengths that you've had since you were little.

You embody them.

They're easy for you to display.

They're energizing and they create wellbeing for you.

And it's just authentic.

You don't have to try.

It's just how you are.

And so those are character strengths.

Your character strengths,

Your top character strengths may be the ones that you value the most or they may not.

So for you,

I think bravery was down the list.

It was like my last one.

Yeah.

Okay.

But it's the one that I value the most.

Right.

So,

You know,

Strengths are malleable.

We can work on them and we can grow on them.

So maybe in 2023,

You're actually going to go back and you're going to horseback ride and you're going to get on the horse yourself rather than just watching someone else be brave.

There you go.

Yes.

But you get,

So one of the assignments that you give your students is around these character strengths.

So you have them go and take the character strengths test and then you give them specific assignments,

Right?

Like what are some of the assignments you give them?

I just,

I really want them to understand themselves and identify what in terms of their positive attributes.

It's so easy for our clients,

Our patients,

Ourselves to beat up on ourselves and see ourselves for the negative aspects of ourselves.

And character strengths are a way to kind of see the good in us.

And so I have them take the via online through authentichappiness.

Org and then I have them really kind of,

Really kind of see themselves in those,

Those character strengths.

Like for me,

One of mine is curiosity and apparently when I was born,

Someone,

One of the nurses dropped something in the delivery room and I turned my head apparently.

And so like even since I was first born,

I was curious looking around,

You know,

And I'm still that way.

And so I want people to understand and see the stories in their lives,

The thread of curiosity or the thread of love or kindness and see how that has shown up for them in their lives and in all aspects and across the years.

And then I want them to actively choose a thing or behavior to do that will do that some more.

So for me,

Like I enjoy running,

So how can I use my curiosity to do something different so that I can have more enhanced wellbeing?

Well,

That would mean like,

Okay,

Well,

Maybe I'm going to get on a flight and go visit my friend Diana and go going around with Diana,

Right?

And that would pique my curiosity and it would just,

It would make me feel better,

Right?

So we have these,

These strengths,

They're inherent within us,

But that doesn't mean that we just do nothing.

We're actually going to grow in our wellness if we consciously,

Intentionally use them in more ways and in different ways every day and throughout our lives.

And so that requires a little bit of planning.

So I have my clients,

I have my students plan deliberately,

How are you going to use your strengths today,

Tomorrow,

The next day and so forth.

Beautiful.

Yeah,

That's a great practice to use in the new year and a little background on Alexis.

So you're hearing her,

Who she is shining through here.

And in graduate school,

Alexis was the most stable,

Balanced,

Positive human of all of us.

We were all neurotic and crazy.

I mean,

You know,

I'm sure that,

That even was you at like,

Not your best,

But I do think some of it had to do with one,

You were in a good environment for curiosity because that you approach graduate school,

Not with competition,

But with curiosity,

Which I think helped you get through it.

But you also,

You already had some of these things in place,

You know,

Kind of going into psychology and then you found a route that just sort of reinforced them.

So yeah.

Thank you.

I always tell my students that I was voted least neurotic.

I took some pride in that.

You totally were.

But we won't say who was voted most neurotic.

Okay.

No.

We'll just move on to the next question.

Yeah,

Next question.

Okay,

Let's get into habits.

Shall we?

Yeah.

Okay.

So I would,

I'm just curious about some of the habits that you have had in 2022.

Like what are some of the habits that,

Healthy habits that you engage in or engage in?

I feel boring with this answer.

It's so boring because I have my stable habits that I've just been doing for years that I actually think are just because it's really by necessity because of just for my recovery.

So I have a great movement habit.

I have that dialed in.

I love moving.

I love running.

I can't do it every day.

I wish I could,

But it's not good for my body.

So I run a couple of days a week and I have a morning practice habit.

So those would say,

I would say are my like super stable,

No matter what habits.

Oh,

And cooking.

We cook most of our meals in our house.

I love to cook,

But it's also just like a habit of five o'clock I'm up there chopping vegetables and it's really a nice time for me.

It's just sort of a time just to focus on just that.

But yes,

For other habits in terms of healthy habits,

I've been trying to develop more of a habit around making phone calls to friends and seeing that my tendency when I am stressed is just to kind of like head down,

Isolate,

You know?

And so trying to make that a sort of a regular habit of when I'm on a run,

Call someone.

And then I kind of go through my Rolodex of busy moms that very few answer,

But at least I feel like I've done the start of it.

I started the call chain.

How about you?

Healthy habits.

Well,

It's similar to yours,

I guess one of my habits is I drink green tea every morning and I have three large Contigo mugs.

Now that may seem excessive,

I know,

But I fill all three up with hot water.

I put my green tea in there and then I put some vanilla collagen in each of them and I take them with me throughout my day.

And so that really kind of fuels me.

That's a habit that I find to be really healthy.

I don't know what I would do without my green tea.

And so I'm pretty good about that.

And then my nightly vitamins,

Like I put them all in a little Ziploc bag and I reuse them.

I make them in batches,

So like maybe 20 a pack and then I put them all in the refrigerator.

So in the evening after dinner,

I can just grab one pouch and just absorb all of them.

And I find that that's a really good routine that I'm proud of for doing when I do it.

And then when I run out of vitamins and I'm without it and I look to the fridge and I don't have it,

I kind of like realize,

Oh my gosh,

This is a habit that I really value and I need.

So what are some of those vitamins?

Like what are some of the mental health vitamins that you take?

I take a really good omega-3 that one of my infertility doctors said this is the one.

What is it?

I know.

I'm all strapped in.

You'll tell me.

You'll tell me.

And then I take a really good vitamin D.

I take methylated folate.

I have MTHFR,

Which sounds like a naughty word.

It's also known as the mother blank gene.

And so I take MTHFR.

I take something for that.

I take methylated folate for that.

I take SAM-E.

I also take.

.

.

Oh,

I think that's it.

Yeah.

And then actually at night I also take two strains of magnesium.

Magnesium malate and magnesium glycinate.

I'll link that down below for you too.

I'll give you that specific information.

But it's actually not for sleep,

But it has helped me with sleep.

But I took it when I was going through infertility.

I just learned a lot about my body.

I think that journey really revealed a lot about what I needed in my own body.

And so magnesium was something that just from a physical,

I saw that was low and I just was curious.

And so I was like,

Well,

What's magnesium?

What does it do?

And I learned a lot about how magnesium is really important to self-functioning.

And it's really kind of affecting the mitochondria.

It's kind of like the energy source of everything.

So I thought.

.

.

And it also relaxes your muscles and your nervous system and so forth.

And so I just started taking it and well,

Six months later,

I had my little miracle baby.

So it's not all about the magnesium,

I'm sure.

But I will say that I have felt fantastic.

It has helped with sleep.

It has helped with a lot of things for me.

I know everything's individual.

So me making sure that I take my vitamins,

That I'm well-stocked and that they're prepped so that they're easy to access has been probably one of my most important healthy habits.

I am so jealous.

I'm actually not jealous.

I don't get jealous of you.

I just get.

.

.

I feel admiration for you,

Love for you,

Because that is something that I have such a hard time with is vitamins.

That is a habit that I cannot seem to nail down for whatever reason.

And I've tried all the different sort of habit techniques of put it with your coffee.

So I've had like vitamins in my coffee area.

So you've given me inspiration to pick that up again.

And maybe just starting with your list,

Because I think also the other reason why I get overwhelmed by vitamins,

I feel like I don't know which ones to take.

And there's so many,

And there's so many people telling me different things.

Another habit that you have that I learned from you and that I've modified since you is you have a really good skin routine habit at night.

And you have this whole.

.

.

I remember you showing me this like years ago.

You're like,

First you have to put on this and then you quickly,

Without your skin drying,

It still has to be wet.

Then you put on this.

Then I went to France this summer to visit with my sister-in-law and then we went to Plum Village.

And my sister-in-law,

Who lives in Paris,

And she's American,

But she's become the beautiful Parisian as they all become in Paris.

And I was like,

What is the skin situation?

And she gave me the whole routine.

And I came home and ever since this summer in Paris,

I've been diligent about my skin routine.

And it's like a process.

Will you tell me about it?

What's the Parisian skin routine?

Well,

First you have to go to the Parisian pharmacy to get all the materials.

But I'll tell you the general.

First you do an oil wash.

So you wash your face with oil.

And then quickly after the oil wash,

There's this foam wash.

So it's like a double wash.

And apparently if you put the oil on your face and then you put the foam on your face,

Your face doesn't dry out.

So then you do that.

And then you put on.

.

.

There's a serum for night and a serum for morning.

And the night serum is like a retinol-based serum.

And then the morning serum is a hydraulic acid-based serum.

So then you put on your serum.

No,

Sorry,

Before the serum,

You do.

.

.

What is it?

Exfoliation?

No,

Yeah,

Toner.

Toner.

You do a toner.

You do a quick toner.

And I guess the toner is the key,

Right?

You have to do the toner for the serum to soak in.

So you do a quick toner and then you do the serum and then you do the eye cream.

I'm serious.

I've done all of these steps.

And then you do the night cream.

Well,

Your skin looks fantastic.

If nothing else,

It makes you feel like you're doing this little self-care thing.

It takes a few minutes and you should see my counter.

It's like I have so many French products.

We were so funny because everything.

.

.

The French,

They have really excellent gynecological care and they have really excellent skin products.

I went to the pharmacy and I bought all these products before coming back home because they're not super expensive in France.

Wow.

Where,

You know,

There we go.

There's the skin routine.

How did we get there?

So that's justifying a trip in 2023 to France,

I think.

Just so we can go to the pharmacy.

Go to the pharmacy.

Our skin products.

You will feel better as a result of it.

It's a mood booster.

Okay.

Another question?

Yeah.

Okay.

What rules do you want to break in 2023?

What rules?

I don't know if I have rules.

I mean,

I guess limits that I have on myself have to do with work.

I would like to expand my idea around what is work for me or what maybe I could get paid to do that I do a lot of.

I do a lot of free things on purpose because I want people to have access to stuff.

But I also want to start to look at,

Well,

Maybe some things that I'm putting a lot of time and energy into I could get paid for.

And this is a tricky thing for me.

And I think for us psychologists and therapists,

So much of our work is about giving.

And I have a good friend that is consistently encouraging me to step out of the mindset that I should just give freely of everything.

And that actually lends to one of the things that we're changing on this podcast is we're incorporating a membership where people can pay $5 a month to get some extra stuff from the podcast,

Things like meditations and a PDF with all of the information about the podcast and a chat group where they can connect as part of a community.

And part of the reason behind that is because I give probably 10 hours a week of my time to building this podcast,

Which is incredibly rewarding for me.

But it also means that I'm working too much because I still have my private practice and then I have the podcast and somewhere in there,

There's too many hours,

Not enough hours for everything that I want to do.

And there's just a lot of overhead with the podcast,

Right?

I have like production people that I help with the production and all that.

So I want to break some of those rules or those ideas within myself that I always need to be giving more.

Yeah.

And that's okay to ask,

Right?

Yeah.

I mean,

I think when you give a little bit of a monetary value,

You're also reminding yourself that you're worth it and that there's value in your podcast,

Which there is tremendous value.

I'm almost amazed when I listen to these podcasts that I'm just like,

Wow,

This is for heat.

This is incredible.

It's like the intersection I think of like women and money and being in helping professions.

It's like this vortex that I get into.

And my mom was a teacher,

So she was also in a helping profession.

I had this whole thing that I think I need to step back and look at.

I was actually very uncomfortable with starting the whole idea around a membership to the podcast because I was like,

I don't want to ask people for money.

I don't like asking people for money.

And my partner was just really encouraging of it.

He's like,

This is what everyone's doing now.

And there's a reason why people are doing it because it costs money to create these things.

So one of the benefits of the more life in process membership is that you get a little bit of extra content from time to time.

Some of the extra content that you're going to get from this episode,

If you sign up for your membership of more life in process,

Are the questions that Alexis continued to ask me after our hour was up.

She had three more questions for me.

They related to my practice and what I really feel like on the inside most days.

And you won't want to miss those answers.

You'll be able to download that file along with the 23 questions for 2023 and also a meditation.

So sign up for more life in process.

It's a membership.

It's hard for me to ask you all to do something like this because I love offering things for free as you all know,

But I also know that it takes time and effort and there's an exchange of energy that happens.

So if you want to get back to the podcast and also get a little bit more,

Go sign up at your life in process.

Com.

Thanks so much for supporting the show.

Rules.

What about your role?

Alexis?

Can I skip this one?

I don't know.

I feel I've always been somewhat of a rule breaker.

I feel like rules are meant to be broken.

It's funny because the World Cup is going on right now for soccer,

FIFA World Cup,

Finals are coming up,

We've had semifinals and I've actually pulled both boys from school just so we could watch some of the games.

So I didn't even feel even an ounce of guilt.

I was just really honest like,

Hey,

It's a World Cup.

It only happens every four years.

We're really into soccer.

We're going to keep our boys from school.

So and it's been met with some surprising,

Like just ease.

So I don't know.

I think I am a little bit of a rule breaker,

Aren't I?

Like I feel like I am.

Yeah,

You totally are.

This was you in grad school.

Yeah.

I think I kind of,

Yeah.

You'd like go for the weekend on some ski trip with some guy.

Yeah,

Totally.

And they'd be like,

We're all studying.

What is Alexis up to?

Well,

I recognized in grad school that most everybody was partnered or coupled and I was not.

So I do feel the pressure of like,

OK,

I am a student and I am also single and I need to have a dating life.

This needs to happen.

Yeah,

It does.

It does.

You're like 30 when you're done with grad school.

Yeah,

So that exactly.

I do feel like we shouldn't hold ourselves so tightly or so scripted.

I think it's OK to,

You know,

Bend the rules.

I kind of have that as a wish for you.

And I have that as kind of a wish for most of my friends and people in general that it's OK to like,

It's OK to fail,

It's OK to try something.

And,

You know,

It may go great,

It may go horribly,

But it's an experience.

Like I wish more people would take more risk in their life and realize that it's not so it's not so terrible.

Part of part of life and there can be pleasure and enjoyment from it,

From uncertainty.

So yeah,

And that's how,

Yeah,

Certainly how we grow is through the variability.

And I I have a tendency to get stuck in things and you don't know you don't know what rules you're stuck in often,

You know,

So it's helpful to have friendships and perspective from other people that are doing things different and say,

Hey,

You could try this out.

Yeah,

You can try it out.

So you can try out a subscription to your podcast and see how it goes and give it a little bit of time.

And then if it doesn't work out or you don't like it or you have another idea,

Then you can try that one,

Too.

Easy breezy,

Breezy.

Okay,

What would you like to complete in 2023?

I think I know the answer to this.

Yeah,

This darn book.

Yeah,

You know it.

Let's go there.

I'm sick of it.

Tell me.

I'm sick of it.

I'm sick of it.

Well,

There's been like another book that snuck in in between.

Let's talk about that.

Tell the audience.

Yeah.

So I so I'm writing it.

We're not fully done.

Like,

We don't know exactly the title.

So don't hold me to this.

But the tentative title,

The Compassion Daily Journal,

That will be coming out in 2024.

So that was something that was an outgrowth of a conversation that I had with Matthew McKay.

Basically,

I got into a workshop with him on the self-critic.

And we went through this whole experiential exercise about the self-critic.

And we were sharing about our childhoods.

And then he's the publisher of New Harbinger.

And then at the end of it all,

He said,

I think you should write a book on self-compassion.

So that's where that came from.

And that is going to get completed.

But the book I want to write is on striving.

And I want to write about my own story.

And I want to help high achievers strive differently.

And people like you,

Alexis,

That have figured some things out,

Like pull your kids from school.

And yes,

You are a professor with a PhD.

So you don't you're not so worried about their academic problems from getting pulled by doing soccer,

Watching a soccer game.

But looking at how successful strivers do things differently and how they can do things compassionately and not get sucked into the rigidity of perfectionism or experiential avoidance or just striving for things that don't bring them satisfaction and joy.

And that's been my own life's journey.

So I want to write about it.

And I fully intend by the end of 2023 to have an agent and have my proposal.

My proposal will be done soon.

But to have that contract in my hand to write that book and to get paid to write the book so I can actually take some time in a sabbatical to go to Greece with you or wherever we go to write our books.

How long does it take to write a book?

So just walk us through the process.

So like you mentioned just now that you are almost done with the proposal.

Like how long what has happened and how long has that taken?

And then what are the next steps?

Yeah,

It really depends on what you write and how you write it.

So my writing is like,

You know,

Saturday mornings from seven to nine a.

M.

Or whatever,

You know.

So the proposal part is the first part.

Then you work with an agent who then pitches it to publishing companies.

It's almost like being like an actor or something where you have an agent that goes and pitches you to movies or shows.

And so and then once the book is accepted,

Then there's about a year that you have to write the book itself.

And then it goes through this whole sort of editing process.

So for the book that I'm writing right now on the Self-Compassion Daily Journal,

I'm going to I write.

I pretty much have written the whole thing and then I submit it to the editors.

And then there's this back and forth process where they give editing suggestions.

And then after that,

It goes to the designers because it's not only what you write,

It's how you how it fits on the page.

And so the designers kind of put it on the page and they make sure it all fits in.

And then you get the cover.

So there's just a lot of post writing stuff that takes a lot of time.

And that's why it takes so long.

By the time a lot of books come out and I interview some of these authors,

They're like well into their next book that they're writing,

Even though their book just came out.

Both of these books seem so appropriate and fitting for everybody.

I mean,

I can't think of a single person who's mastered self-compassion.

And I think that most of us are all strivers,

Right?

If you're listening to this podcast,

You kind of are because you're constantly wanting to learn more and grow and those kinds of things.

And whether I think the audience is striving parents,

I think there's striving therapists,

I think there's striving CEOs,

I think there's all different kinds of strivers that listen to this podcast.

But that's part of,

You talk about this in positive psychology,

Seligman's needs for achievement.

And you were the one that introduced that concept to me.

Achievement is one of the things that brings us satisfaction.

Yeah,

It's one of the pillars of well-being.

Pillars of well-being.

And there's also Maslow's hierarchy of needs and we have self-actualization as the very top of that.

And so his idea was that most people are moving towards self-actualization,

Which I think is just another maybe reframe about striving and about how we have a tendency to push forward to be our best selves.

Right.

I think we all have that tendency and then we get kind of hooked,

Right?

By things that derail us and send us in other directions or keep us from putting ourselves.

So,

Yeah,

No,

I'm really excited about it.

I'm excited about the self-compassion journal too,

Because I'm integrating a lot of ACT into it.

And so there's not a lot out there that is for the general public that is looking at self-compassion and ACT.

And it's very applied.

Self-compassion is not something you just read about,

You have to actually do it.

And so like the ACT daily journal,

I give a lot of exercises that you apply to your life.

That is sort of my whole thing is I love psychology,

But I think psychology has done not a great job at translating it into our daily life.

And it's been so focused on pathology.

We haven't been looking at what are the skills that are needed to be well as a human being.

Maybe that's why we're such good friends because you took that route too with positive psychology.

Yeah.

I crave that still.

And I agree with you when I look big picture,

I don't think psychology has had that as a focus.

And I think that having more tangible bite-size digestible information and skill sets,

Growing our skill sets on terms of how to build psychological flexibility,

How to build self-compassion,

It's exactly what we need.

Yeah.

Okay.

Another quick question about 2022.

I'm getting ready for it.

I want you to think back on your last run and I want to know how long you ran,

What your pace was.

No,

Stop.

I do.

I do.

No.

I'm going to embarrass my slow turtle self.

Okay.

How about your best run of 2022 then?

Okay.

All of 2022,

What was your best run?

Where were you?

What was the day?

I want to know this optimal run.

You look back on 2022,

What was your favorite run?

What was your best run?

Okay.

Well,

Yeah,

Favorite run of 2022 was when we were in Plum Village,

France,

In Southern France.

And we were staying at this little gite,

Which is a gite is basically like a little guest house.

And we were in this little stone guest house that was about two miles from Plum Village.

We were staying there and every morning we would bike in on our bikes.

Like I'd go in really early to go to the meditation or the kids would come in later,

Like around seven.

But I remember on lazy day of all days,

Which is the day when they don't have any meditation in Plum Village and everyone is supposed to just like be lazy.

My lazy day was waking up and going for a run.

And the area around there is just fields of sunflowers.

And I went on this run and I remember hitting this field and it was kind of like sprinkling and hitting this field of sunflowers and there was a rainbow and there was all these sunflowers that were like,

Some were huge,

Some were little,

Some were crooked,

But they all had these like big faces almost.

And I remember looking,

I've always been really connected to flowers and I remember stopping.

And so this is my whole thing around pacing,

Alexis,

Is I don't really care anymore.

I am over caring how fast I run.

I do not care.

So I stopped and the sunflowers I saw as like,

The word is sangha,

My community,

I saw as my friends,

I saw as my family,

The little ones I saw as my children,

The ones that were kind of old and that were kind of getting crinkly around the edges,

My parents.

And sorry,

You're not old parents,

But yeah.

And I felt this like,

This is it.

The humans are just a field of sunflowers.

And maybe I was a little bit in the energy field of Plum Village and Thich Nhat Hanh and way too interconnected at that point in time,

But it was hands down the best run of the year and so grateful for my time there and feeling so deeply connected to my roots,

Especially my parental lineage with being in Plum Village.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I feel like I was part of that journey with you and you sharing that story.

Okay.

So how about your wishes for your audience for 2023?

My wishes are immense.

One,

I wish that you have that feeling in some way or another,

Whether it's through connection to nature or connection to a community,

That you do not feel alone on this planet,

That you feel supported and bolstered and connected.

And so whatever way that you get that,

I hope that you nourish that for yourself.

I wish you opportunities to reflect and take the time like Alexis and I did today and that we do on a fairly regular,

But not enough,

Is practice of just pausing and reflecting on your life.

Where are you at right now?

What is important to you?

Where do you want to go?

What rules do you want to break?

Some of these questions.

And I do have all the 23 questions for 2023 available for you and you'll get access to all of those.

You can answer these either alone or with your partner,

With your family or your dog or around a fire with others.

So give yourself time to reflect.

And yeah,

Those are my wishes,

Community and reflection.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much,

Diana.

This has been really a fun process.

Thank you,

Alexis.

It's so good to spend an hour with you.

And I kind of forgot that we were doing a podcast for a little bit.

I did too.

Yeah.

Good.

Thank you so much.

More to come.

I'm sure people want to hear more from you and bring you back.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Your Life in Process.

When you enter your life in process,

When you become psychologically flexible,

You become free.

If you like this episode or think it would be helpful to somebody,

Please leave a review over at podchaser.

Com.

And if you have any questions,

You can leave them for me by phone at 805-457-2776 or send me a voicemail by email at podcast at yourlifeinprocess.

Com.

I want to thank my team,

Craig,

Angela Stubbs,

Ashley Hyatt,

And thank you to Ben Gold at Bell and Branch for his original music.

This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only,

And it's not meant to be a substitute for mental health treatment.