05: Alan Cohen On Imposter Anxiety

I’m happy to welcome author and teacher Alan Cohen to From Anxiety To Love Radio. If you’ve ever felt like you can’t be a teacher because you don’t have your act fully together, this episode is for you.

Transcript

This is From Anxiety to Love Radio,

The show about undoing anxiety through A Course in Miracles and other pathways of love.

Gain insights and tools to deepen your awareness of the peace that is already in you.

I'm your host Corinne Zupko.

Today on From Anxiety to Love Radio,

I'm so excited to talk with Alan Cohen,

Who is an incredible author,

Teacher,

And all around good person.

If you've ever struggled with imposter anxiety,

Which is that feeling of doubt that you can't possibly teach or share your message with the world because you don't yet have your own act together,

This episode is for you.

Let's listen in to my conversation with Alan.

Welcome everyone.

This is Corinne and I am so,

So,

So excited to be here today with Alan Cohen.

Alan is a Course in Miracles student and teacher for 35 years.

He is the author of the bestselling book,

A Course in Miracles Made Easy and 25 other popular inspirational books,

Including the award-winning,

A Deep Breath of Life and the classic,

Are You As Happy As Your Dog?

And I just have to start out by saying that my mom actually was a long time follower of you,

Alan.

And when she found out that you and I had connected back when we did the Miracle Share Conference,

She was just so giddy.

So I'm here to just give you a big warm welcome.

Thank you so much for being with us today.

It is my honor.

Thank you for inviting me,

Dear.

Yes.

And the topic that we came to,

I'm so excited about is imposter anxiety.

And I'm wondering if you can just share a little bit about what inspired you to talk about this topic today.

It's a great topic,

Corinne.

I've been teaching a coach training for about eight years,

About a life coach training.

And folks have to fill out an application before they're accepted.

And I asked them,

What are your fears or concerns about joining this course?

And almost everyone,

I would say 75,

80% of them say,

I'm concerned that I'm not qualified to do this.

Who am I to coach somebody?

Who am I to get paid for it?

And that people just realize I'm a big phony.

And the interesting thing is that this is not just one or two scattered people.

It's almost everyone.

So I realize that most of us have this core of what's called fraud,

Guilt,

Or imposter anxiety,

Where we believe that there's something wrong with us.

And we're not qualified to teach or write or sing or heal.

And it's really the first hurdle we have to get over if you're going to be a coach or a teacher.

So it's fun for me because I know that people are qualified.

So I hold the vision for them.

But most people have to face that dark boogeyman that says,

Who the hell do you think you are for teaching?

I can still relate to that dark boogeyman.

And in Course in Miracles terms,

Everybody listening,

I would say that that dark boogeyman voice is that ego voice that is going to just tell us that we're not good enough,

That we can't possibly do this because we still have issues ourselves.

Would you agree that that's the ego voice?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And I was thinking about this before we got together today,

Corinne.

And I realized what the ego does is it projects the truth about itself onto us or onto the spirit.

It makes up a big story that we are it.

And so basically,

The ego is a fraud.

The ego is unqualified.

And it knows it.

And so basically,

It tries to disown that disqualification by projecting to us,

Onto the spirit,

Saying you're not qualified.

Well,

The truth is the ego is not qualified.

So it's a funny little game the ego plays,

Isn't it?

That is brilliant.

I absolutely love that.

That's so true because the ego is a big fraud.

It's a big liar.

And you're hitting just such an important point about it disowning that frauduleness by saying that we are the ones that are actually a fraud.

So that's huge.

So then it's about disowning the ego,

Right?

It's about disowning that ego voice,

That that's the fraud,

That that's not who we are.

It's about recognizing that the voice of ego has one particular frequency in one source and the voice of spirit has another frequency in another source.

So what I do is,

This is the first or second lesson in the coach training.

I'll say,

Okay,

Now please lay out very clearly what that ego says.

And people say,

You're a stupid jerk and who the hell are you to teach?

And you don't have to get paid for it,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

Now I say,

Okay,

Now what does the voice of spirit or love or compassion say?

Well,

They say,

Well,

You know,

You're really good person and not perfect,

But you can help.

And you've had some experience and the spirit will work for you.

So what we have to do is hold both voices up to the light,

The voice of fear and the voice of love.

We try them both on for size and then decide which one fits better.

And the answer is obvious.

So obvious.

I love that.

I love too how you said something really important about holding both voices up to the light,

Because I think that's a really important point.

Because if we think that we're entirely clear,

I know for me,

Many people have said often,

You know,

How can you tell if it's the ego or if it's spirit?

And sometimes maybe it's not so clear.

And what you just said about giving both voices to the light,

Bringing both of those voices to the light,

That guarantees that you're stepping into your willingness to let the false voice fall away and only the true voice remain.

So I love how you said that about both voices,

Bringing both voices to the light.

There's an analogy I use,

Which most people like,

And that's,

Let's say your best friend is Susan and somebody who's not Susan calls you up and says,

Hey,

This is Susan,

Something's come up.

I need to meet you at Starbucks in an hour.

So the question is,

Would you go?

And the answer is,

Of course not,

Because you know Susan's voice.

And then an hour later,

The real Susan calls,

She doesn't even say her name,

She says,

Hey,

Something's up,

Meet me at Starbucks.

Would you go?

Well,

Of course.

So the idea is that the Holy Spirit has a frequency.

It's a frequency of peace and healing and release and relief and love and expansion.

The voice of ego is always fear-based and always guilt-based and always pressure-based.

And it's just,

You know,

It's a dense,

Heavy,

Overbearing vibration.

So what you have to do is recognize that each one has a unique frequency and respond to these voices in your head based upon their frequency,

Not the words,

Because the ego quotes scripture,

The devil quotes scripture.

And so it'll say loving spiritual things,

But it's not.

So we have to descend by vibrations to the content.

I love that.

I love that,

The vibration instead of the content,

Because you're absolutely right that that the ego can get very spiritual,

Right?

And just like you said,

Quote scripture and quote the Course and all those things.

So it's that vibration.

That's fabulous.

I'll say,

Oh,

You and I were soulmates in Greece,

And now destiny made us meet again,

Come to my bedroom.

And it's like,

You know,

All kinds of very spiritual things to say to do its own nasty work.

And so it's very important to find out where the voice is coming from instead of,

You know,

What it's saying.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

So,

So in addition to this idea of distinguishing between bringing both voices to the light and really tuning in to the Holy Spirit's frequency,

What else comes to mind for you in terms of how we can look at this whole idea of imposter anxiety or fraud guilt?

What I tell people,

Corinne,

Is that you are not the coach,

You are not the healer,

You are not the teacher,

The Spirit is teaching for you.

Many years ago,

I took a healing course with a great healer,

And someone asked him,

Why do I feel burnt out after doing a number of healings?

And he said,

Because you think you're the healer.

And so when the ego gets involved and thinks,

I am doing this,

And if it works,

It's because of me,

And if it doesn't work,

It's because of me,

Then you're into ego land.

But if you recognize that you are offering yourself as a vessel through which Spirit will accomplish the coaching or healing or teaching,

Then you're clean because you're not ego involved,

And you're just turning it over to Spirit.

So it's really very freeing to people when I tell them,

You're not the coach,

You're just serving as the vessel for the coach with a capital C,

And then they relax and release,

And good things happen because the ego is out of the way,

At least for the moment.

That's so helpful.

You actually remind me of a really funny story.

This is years ago,

And I remember going for a walk.

I have a trail near my house that's about five miles,

And on this walk I decided I was going to be loving and I was going to bless everybody and send healing energy to everybody that I passed.

And I was exhausted,

Absolutely exhausted back into that walk because I was doing it myself.

And then another time came around where I just was tuned into just that willingness and that willingness to let what is true in me come forth and meet the truth in others.

And I instantaneously felt like bursts of love every time I passed somebody and was absolutely energized by the same walk.

So there's a good example of this difference.

That's a great example.

Yeah,

It's perfect.

It's a lovely experience you had that worked.

Yeah,

Yeah.

You know,

You also are reminding me of a course quote.

I have it right here.

This is speaking to how you said,

You know,

We are not the coach,

We're not the healer,

We're not the teacher.

There's something that can extend through us though that is,

I like how you said the coach with a capital C.

This Course in Miracles quote says,

If you inspire joy and others react to you with joy,

Even though you are not experiencing joy yourself,

There must be something in you that is capable of producing it.

And I love that because that's exactly what you're saying,

That there's something else in us that when we get out of the way,

We can allow it to come through.

Yeah,

That's a fabulous quote.

I'm also thinking the one where it says that you are perfectly safe as long as you are completely unconcerned about your own readiness,

But have perfect faith in mind.

That's a great one.

That's a great one.

So that readiness then we don't even need to feel ready.

We just again have to have that.

It comes down to willingness,

Really.

Right,

Doesn't it?

Wouldn't you say it comes down to willingness?

Willingness and attention.

I'm here only to be truly helpful.

So I tell my coaches,

If you dedicate yourself to truly helping your client and getting yourself out of the way,

Then the Spirit will do all kinds.

When I coach Corrine,

All kinds of stuff comes to me.

I never thought of it before and I think,

Well,

That's a great idea.

I never thought of it.

So really,

Spirit is absolutely willing to step in and handle anything if you're willing to give it space.

That's beautiful.

And to throw another course quote in there,

How does it go?

I'm here only to be truly helpful.

I'm here to represent Him who sent me.

I do not have to worry about what to say or what to do because He who sent me will direct me.

So there again,

It is of that willingness to just let what is in us come forward.

I love that.

We teach that prayer.

We call it the healer's prayer.

And it's in one of our early lessons for coach training.

And I tell people,

You know,

This prayer will help you not only in coaching,

But in negotiation or divorce or business interview or anything.

And out of all the lessons,

We have 40 lessons,

People come back and say that one lesson helps them in their life more than any other one.

They use that prayer and it works.

So if you're willing to use it,

It'll work on your behalf.

That's awesome.

So it's actually about that lesson from the quote that I just mentioned from the course that you are calling the healer's prayer.

Oh,

How beautiful.

How beautiful.

I love that.

I absolutely love that.

Wow.

I have some other questions just coming to mind and I don't want to digress too much,

But I'm wondering before I go there,

Are there any additional things coming to mind to you about how to help folks with this imposter anxiety or this fraud?

Yeah.

I also tell people that the world is pretty crazy these days.

Not that it's ever not been,

But you know it is.

And a lot of people are hurting.

People are in fear.

People are in survival mode.

People feel disconnected and disempowered.

And I say anything,

Anyone who steps out there with the intention to serve what God,

What spirit would not take you up on that.

So get your mind off of what are they going to think of me and think about how can I relieve suffering on the planet?

And once you recognize,

Even if you're not perfect,

Even if you haven't graduated the course,

Even if you have skeletons in your closet that you're afraid people are going to find out,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Then you know,

You,

You can make a difference in the world by offering yourself and think of the people you're going to help more than what they're going to think about you.

People really like that too because it gets a spotlight off of me,

Me,

Me and not serve,

Serve,

Serve.

That makes a big difference.

That sure does.

I love that instead of me,

Me,

Me serve,

Serve,

Serve.

How can I be used or use me,

Use me.

However I've said that so many times,

Use me.

However it would be in the highest good for all.

Yeah,

I love that.

I love that.

So my question that was coming to mind before was when you talked about the unique frequency,

How the ego has its frequency and Holy spirit has its frequency.

How do you distinguish for yourself?

I'm just wondering,

How do you tune into that higher frequency?

Well by being honest about how it feels and where it's coming from.

So you know,

Is it fear that's,

Am I going to act out of fear?

And if I'm going to act out of fear,

I know it's not it.

And there's one line,

I think it's in less than 132 where it's,

We're talking about the two decisions,

How to make choices.

And the Course gives us many different criteria for how to make a choice.

And one of them,

I love it,

Says,

If there's any guilt at all involved,

Then you could be sure that that's not the right choice.

And so,

You know,

Check out your motivation.

Why is this a joy based decision,

A creativity based decision,

Or it is a fear or guilt based decision.

And that's one way.

The other way is to practice and notice that historically when I've listened to ego voice,

It never works out how I want it to.

And you know,

I can give you countless examples of stuff I've done because ego just,

You know,

Moved me to do it.

And I always regret it because it wasn't coming from the right place.

And I think when I followed peace,

When I followed joy,

I followed spirit,

It always works out.

So after a while you kind of build up a database of experiences that,

So okay,

You acted from this voice that time,

That's what happened.

And you acted from that voice that time,

That's what happened.

Are you ready to choose once again?

And so after a while it gets easier because you discern from experience what those voices lead to,

But by their fruit shall you know them.

Yeah,

Yeah.

I love that.

You're speaking to how we learn through contrast,

Right?

We learn through the contrast of the ego being very clearly one thing and Holy Spirit being another.

And I feel like you're also speaking to the development of trust,

That we have experience after experience and our trust meter goes up a little and up a little and up a little each time as we really learn how to transfer that trust from the ego voice to Spirit within.

Yeah,

There's two quotes I often quote.

One is,

One is,

Trust would settle every problem now,

Of course.

And the other one is,

So the manual,

That trust is the bedrock of the teacher of God's entire thought system.

So trust is scary because we're afraid we're going to get zapped,

But really,

In my defense system,

My safety lies.

So it's just a big trust walk,

Isn't it?

It is.

It is.

It often feels like,

If you remember that movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,

Where he has to step off the cliff and it looks like there's nothing there,

But it turns out there is.

The pathway just blends into the big abyss.

That's what it feels like sometimes.

I've shown that clip in my workshop,

I'm glad you brought it up,

And the question is,

You know,

There's a bridge there,

So was the bridge always there and he just didn't see it,

Or did the bridge get created because he stepped on it?

So it doesn't really matter because the bridge ends up being there,

But it's an interesting metaphysical discussion.

Yeah,

Yeah,

I love that you showed that video.

That's perfect.

That's awesome.

You know,

Just going back to what you just said to another point that I really wanted to highlight for folks,

You started out when I asked you about tuning in to either the ego's frequency or Holy Spirit's frequency,

You said being honest.

And I really want to just draw that out and really,

Really highlight that,

Because that's so key.

This is radical honesty we're talking about.

It's about really,

Really,

Really being honest about the tiniest of fear or guilt thoughts that can zip through the mind,

Because we can easily,

It's the ego's plan to just brush those aside,

Not look at them,

Pretend they're not there,

But we're asked to not brush them aside and to look at them and to be really honest.

So that honesty is big,

Right?

Yeah,

It is,

It requires deep radical honesty,

As you said,

And there's a line in the Course I could paraphrase which says something like,

You know,

If you consider,

I'm just paraphrasing,

All the ways that you follow the ego's advice,

It has never really gotten you what you want.

And you know,

The ego wants us to keep believing,

Well,

Yeah,

You know,

You tried that 20 times,

It didn't work,

But now the 21st time it might work.

And the truth is,

If we're honest about where the ego leads us,

It's not a desirable outcome.

So but you have to tell the truth about it before you can make that change.

Right,

Right.

Who said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over expecting different results?

There you go.

Yeah,

Yeah.

The ego is insane,

It's insane.

Yeah,

It's complete,

It's complete.

You know,

Yogananda said,

This is one of my favorite quotes,

He said that it's very helpful to consider the world a big mental institution and everybody just hangs out in the same ward of people who are crazy in the same way they are.

The more I live on earth,

The more real that becomes.

Everybody's nuts in one way or another,

Including me,

Including you,

No offense.

We all have our little pocket of insanity.

And you know,

That's what keeps the world spinning around in the way that it has been,

Of course.

And we also have our divinity and we can tap into that divinity,

Everything changes.

Right,

Right,

Absolutely.

Oh,

I take no offense whatsoever,

I'm totally honest about my insanity.

I still retain in my mind,

There's the radical honesty and just being willing to look at that with Holy Spirit.

I love that,

I love that.

So anything else coming forward for you?

Again,

Just some more words of advice surrounding imposter anxiety.

It's a big hurdle for most people.

And the sad thing is that it keeps a lot of great healers or teachers or musicians or artists or coaches from launching out and making their contribution.

And something I tell my coaches that I have seen,

And I know personally,

Intimately,

Most of the top self-help teachers in the world.

I've been on the circuit for 30 or 40 years and I know them behind the scenes.

I know their personal lives.

And I need to tell you that they are no more sane than you and me.

Not to criticize them,

But they have functions,

They have bad divorces,

They have alcoholism,

They have sexual addiction,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Not all of them,

But everybody has something going on that they're not sharing on stage.

And so once again,

Not to criticize them,

But to say that if you can have top,

Top best-selling authors and presenters and leaders who have big dysfunctions that you never see,

Then this means that you do not have to be perfect before you can teach or heal.

The good news is that they're all so great in their own way.

In addition to their dysfunctions,

They do have talents and services and insights and brilliance,

Which actually put them on the map,

Deservely so.

But they do not,

You know,

We can say that the difference between somebody who doesn't launch out and the difference between somebody who does is that the person who launches out is not willing to let their dysfunction stop them.

They forge ahead anyway,

And in many cases they use it to learn from and grow from,

And in that way their dysfunction empowers them rather than drags them down.

That is so,

So helpful to hear for all of us,

Just to normalize it for everybody,

For where all of us are at.

And you're reminding me just again about the idea that we all have our gifts and we all have our issues,

And we can repurpose all of those things rather than using those things on behalf of strengthening the ego.

We can allow those things to be repurposed to be used by Holy Spirit to help us,

To help others.

So we give our gifts to Spirit to be used,

We give our dysfunctions to Spirit to be used,

And that repurposing then helps wake us up and others as well.

Very well said.

And if you let imposter anxiety stop you,

Then the ego has won,

Has succeeded in stopping you from giving your gift.

And if that makes you angry,

It should.

Not that anything should make you angry,

But it should motivate us to recognize why wait another day?

Why wait for heaven?

Why wait to give your gifts?

You can go out there,

Teach and heal today if you're willing,

And you allow Spirit to work for you.

So don't wait until you're totally healed to teach or heal because it's never going to happen.

That voice of dysfunction,

That voice of fear is always going to sit on your shoulder and go blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Booga,

Booga,

Booga.

And someone has said that we don't get rid of our demons,

We just rise above them.

So that voice of ego or dysfunction may go on for a while,

But the question is how much energy do you give it,

How much do you give into it?

And are you willing to go ahead anyway?

That's how I hold it.

I love that.

I love that.

I think that's also a great note for us to wrap up with.

So I'm wondering just as we wrap up our show today,

Do you have a takeaway that you'd like to just reemphasize for our listeners and anything else coming forward that you would like to share?

Yeah,

Thanks for asking.

We're all here for a holy purpose and Holy Spirit has given you gifts.

And sometimes at the core of your humanity is the greatest gift of divinity.

Someone once said,

What's in the way is the way.

So I just encourage all of our listeners to really don't let fear stop you,

Don't let ego stop you,

Don't let anxiety stop you.

My teacher used to say the dogs bark and the caravan moves on.

So let the dogs make their statement,

But let the caravan move on as well.

And you will be rewarded.

You will get feedback and positive results and healing because you moved on and you'll see ultimately that the voice of joy,

The voice of creativity is far closer to the truth about you than the voice of anxiety.

Amen to that.

Beautiful.

That is so empowering and so uplifting.

Alan,

Thank you so much for being here with us today.

We so appreciate you and these beautiful,

Beautiful insights that you shared with us today.

What's my honor?

You're doing great stuff.

Come in,

Keep it up.

And I'm happy to play with you anytime.

Thank you so much.

Take care.

I so enjoyed talking with Alan today.

He made so many fabulous points.

And in addition to the takeaway that Alan left with us,

I have two additional takeaways that I'd like to add.

Number one,

You are not the coach,

The healer or the teacher.

I love how he said this,

The coach with a capital C,

The teacher with a capital T,

That is our right mind,

The voice of Holy Spirit within us.

And we have to remember that it's simply our job to get out of the way to step aside.

And this applies even if you're not aspiring to bring a message into the world.

This,

This applies to our daily lives as we interact with our own teachers in our classroom,

Other people,

Family members,

Friends,

That we can either come from ego when we're interacting and speaking with others,

Or we can step aside and ask for Holy Spirit to guide us and to speak through us.

So whether we are stepping out into the world to share our message or not,

The healer's prayer as Alan called it.

I absolutely love.

I said this prayer before we started our podcast recording.

And I always say this before I speak to groups of people.

I am here only to be truly helpful.

I am here to represent him or her who sent me.

I do not have to worry about what to say or what to do because he who sent me will direct me.

And I promise I will leave this quote and a reference to it in the show notes for this episode.

Number two,

My second takeaway.

There are many teachers,

Successful coaches,

Successful authors who still struggle.

I was so grateful to hear Alan share this because he's been in the field for a long time.

As I mentioned,

My mom has been following him forever.

And we have to remember that just like the images that we see of models in magazines are photoshopped.

Often times what we hear from teachers is only part of their story,

They're not sharing the whole picture necessarily.

And so we have to remember that no one is perfect.

I think this is why we love teachers.

I know I'm gravitating to teachers who are vulnerable,

Who speak from their heart,

Share their pains,

Their current struggles,

We have to remember that nobody has it all together.

I'd like to leave you with one additional thought.

This is something that occurred to me after I was thinking about and reflecting upon this episode.

A Course in Miracles teaches that as you teach,

So shall you learn.

So I love teaching what I need to learn.

Everything that I'm sharing,

I share because it reinforces and strengthens these healing ideas in my own mind.

The course actually says that as you teach salvation,

You will learn it.

And it says your teaching and your learning will not be of you,

But of the teacher who has given you to show the way to you.

So there it is our ability to step out of the way and let spirit teach through us,

Then teaches us about the love,

The truth that we actually are.

As we share our light with others,

It strengthens the remembrance of our light in our own minds.

So go forth and shine.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

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