The Peace Pilgrimage

An interview with Peace Activist, Melinda Clarke, about her peace pilgrimages in Japan. Melinda had stage four cancer years ago, that had spread throughout her body, but decided to do a peace pilgrimage in Japan overcame cancer and learned many lessons along the way. She interviewed Hiroshima Bomb survivors and wrote a book on it. Be inspired by her story and journey in Peace.

Transcript

All right,

Well,

I am very,

Very happy to have a very inspirational woman who I have learned a lot from.

She is a peace activist,

A woman with an amazing life story that I find so inspiring.

Melinda Clark,

You're a peace pilgrim,

You're a writer,

You're a peace activist,

And I loved how you defined pilgrim.

In the dictionary says a person who journeys to a sacred place for religious purposes.

And you said you believe it's certainly a person who travels a long distance,

Making it a journey to,

If not somewhere,

For some place or knowledge.

And you have had a life that a lot of people could only imagine,

And you have certainly pursued peace for a long time.

When did you actually start to feel that you began your peace pilgrimage and your search for peace?

Oh,

That's an easy question.

That's a joke.

You know,

I think that I was searching and doing the pilgrimage for 40 years,

But I didn't really know it.

I was raised in a area that has social commitment to violence and war.

We knew violence worked.

You know,

It was fast,

Quick,

We were strong,

Brave.

Well,

America is,

You know,

Really,

Americans are really special,

But I think our strength became our weakness because we know that we,

You know,

I just think it became our weakness,

But I didn't know that until I went to Hiroshima to interview A-bomb survivors.

Of course,

I didn't realize that that's why I was going there at the time,

But I ended up,

And that was where I thought for the first time,

And I was 40 years old,

When I realized that violence doesn't work.

So,

And it was from that point on that actually I've been researching for,

Or searching,

I should say,

For solutions,

But without really having a plan,

Just one thing after another led me to something else.

And what was your question?

What's your next question?

Well,

That was definitely where it all started and how it unfolded.

And I think what is the journey of a thousand steps begins with one,

Journey of a thousand years begins with one step,

But you started with one step.

And I think that's important for people to understand because even when you did your peace pilgrimages and your walks,

You went a lot of times out not knowing what was going to happen on the way.

And I guess that's important.

Part of that is important having that faith,

Right?

Knowing that something- Yeah,

I think basically maybe I just had a whole lot of leaps of faith and not a lot of brains and planning.

And you talked about the pilgrimage and you were gonna talk a little bit about the cancer.

And I had gotten over the cancer and I still had the fear.

So I went for the pilgrimage.

I fought to get rid of the fear,

But it turned out to be so much worse.

It turned out to be searching for peace.

Well,

And you said you had the cancer.

You had a rather serious diagnosis and it wasn't,

There's all kinds of cancers,

But you had a cancer that had spread and had gone to fourth stage and gone to fourth.

And for some people that coming to terms with even finding peace with that would have maybe have stopped them and caused more than even fear.

It could have made them catatonic.

Well,

I was told I had lung cancer at fourth stage of six months to live.

And that was about 15 years ago.

And I got rid of that.

I went,

Actually,

I was happy at my 50th high school anniversary.

So I went to a reunion,

Just apologize to everybody for all the jokes I played on them.

Wow.

And anyway,

And then I didn't die.

I was supposed to,

The six months would have been up in September.

The reunion was in August,

But I didn't die.

And the next thing I know,

I'm feeling fine,

But then things are weird.

And I go out to California,

Because I'm,

Anyway,

You make a long story short,

They'll do it,

The pesticides to my brain four times.

And they were all malignant.

But I had a wonderful doctor at the City of Hope and surgery and a lot of praying.

And I really think it was a divine healing.

And so here I am.

I think it was too.

Yeah,

I do too.

I think I have something to do with,

I think this peace thing and putting holes in our mentality that war works,

I think is part of what I'm doing.

And that's a huge project,

Of course.

You know,

I have found this last year with COVID-19,

I have worked harder than ever.

And it may have been to overcome fear.

I've never seen a year like this,

And I've done three CDs and I just finished an audio book.

And because I know when I'm doing something I believe in,

That I find creative,

That I can do more.

And I kind of had this ghost of this premonition that I don't know if I have a lot of time.

And you know what,

Melinda,

It made me work harder to get what I needed done in the time I had.

Did you find that you looked at this as- Yeah?

Focused,

Focused.

Yes,

Absolutely.

And then finally,

You know,

Believing,

And this is the faith,

It's the faith that heals you,

It's the faith that moves you on without making all the plans.

And when you don't make all the plans,

Like on the pilgrimage,

I didn't know where I was going,

I got lost.

I got lost between temple number one and temple number two.

Seriously,

Seriously,

I did.

And I went into this lady's house and I asked for,

Where's the temple?

Oteira,

Doko Desuka.

And she thought I asked for the bathroom,

Which is O- Oh,

I forgot my Japanese.

Oteira,

Anyway,

Oteira.

Anyway,

Yeah,

Oteira,

Doko Desuka.

That one's Oteira,

That one's Oteira.

Anyway,

She ran in screaming for her husband and anyway,

I was in the wrong place.

So yes,

But you just run into everything in between the temples.

That's where it happens.

And I think it's in between your plans that that's where things happen,

Especially if you're open to anything.

No,

You're right,

Right.

As a man makes plans and God laughs,

I mean,

Sometimes it's true.

And in all of that,

There is this kind of seed,

Seed,

This grain,

The seed of kernel of peace that comes when you find that knowledge that it's like all the things I've made,

All the plans I've made and everything.

And yet here I am and you've came through two pilgrimages that there were very difficult pilgrimages that a lot of people would be even afraid to start.

Actually,

Now that you say that,

I think it's like three that I can,

It started out when I took the two children,

Four years old,

11 and sold everything.

And we just went to Japan and didn't know why we're gone.

I think that was a very,

That was the first journey.

I'm actually working on the book now on the pilgrimage,

Right,

For working titles,

The Walk.

And it's interesting that you call me now that we're doing this now because I'm working through.

And can I tell you one thing that kept coming up in the pilgrimage?

It's a word that kept coming up.

I'm looking for solutions,

Okay?

I'm looking for solutions to violence.

So there's a word that kept coming up in my pilgrimage that's complaining.

And one of the first rules,

If you're gonna do the pilgrimage,

You have to promise not to complain.

Know what happens to you.

No complaining,

That's a rule.

Okay,

So,

Okay,

No complaining.

Who listens to that?

And who listens to you when you're out there all by yourself anyway?

But anyway,

So then my visa ran out and I was a fish at the Belgrade.

And I went down to Vietnam because it was cold in Japan and they couldn't finish them because it wasn't so healthy going up mountains.

So I went down to set out the winter in Vietnam and Bangkok.

And first of all,

It was in Bangkok.

And on Friday,

I happened to turn on TV and they said,

Okay,

Well,

It's Friday,

It's no complaining day.

So everybody,

It was this thing where we're allowed to complain for the whole day.

Then I went on up into Vietnam.

I was doing some interviews and I was in North Vietnam in Hanoi and everybody was treating me so nicely.

And I said,

You know,

The war isn't that far.

Why is everybody nice to me?

And she said,

Everybody said that I asked that question too.

We're tired of war.

We fought with the Chinese,

The Americans.

We don't wanna be warring,

We wanna be friends.

And so I asked this one lady in particular,

Said,

Why do you think Americans,

Do you think Americans survive it?

And they're addicted to war,

Yes.

And I said,

Why do you think so?

And she said,

Americans complain too much.

You're always complaining,

Complain,

Complain.

You say,

When you complain,

Then you're unhappy.

Then you get angry,

Then it leads to war.

She says,

Stop complaining.

And I had more people say about complaining and then come home and you know what?

Boy,

Do we complain a lot.

We don't see any gratitude in anything anymore.

It's amazing what we've become.

You are right.

And you know,

One they found now gratitude is such an amazing key to overcoming depression and actually improving your health.

And I also wanted to bring up Aloha because you have landed up here with your beautiful daughter,

Deidre Teagarden and look at what the wonderful things she's done.

And we have a lot of great people who have done and we have Aloha is one of the keys and the principles that actually is the way we all understand we wish to live.

However,

Some people may not remember that in times of crisis,

But now I'm more than ever,

Of course,

It's important to remember Aloha.

And how did you bring Aloha into your life and that journey and those three pilgrimages and was it understood and what was their interpretation of Aloha and what was your talk to some of the people you met about Aloha?

Well,

You know,

Before I went on the first pilgrimage,

I was living in senior housing in a Heecher and I didn't know what I was doing.

Oh,

Actually I was going over for another 50th anniversary of the one of the first jobs I had on a floating university went from Japan to Australia and islands in between.

And that was a one day thing,

But I knew I had three months visa and I had all this fear.

So I thought,

Okay,

I'll do a little bit of pilgrimage I'll just see what it's like.

And so I got buttons made and every year I went over I got a new piece button made,

Which I brought them,

I forgot them.

Anyway,

What was the question?

Oh,

About how Aloha,

You shared Aloha and people's interpretation.

Yes,

Well,

You know,

People know Hawaii and all I had to do was when they said,

Where are you from?

All I had to do is say Hawaii and they all knew what Aloha was.

Really?

Yes,

Hawaii is amazing.

You wanna say where you're from,

You're from Hawaii.

It just like opens arms.

What about Hawaii and Aloha?

Everybody knows,

Aloha.

Yeah,

And it's really hard to explain Aloha.

So I just tried to do it in my actions,

But I got more Aloha than I ever gave.

Really?

Yes,

Because as a pilgrim,

Once you say you're a pilgrim and no complaining of all of the rules,

People come up to you and they give you an Osetai.

An Osetai is a gift to give to the pilgrim.

What I didn't know that you're not supposed to refuse any of the gifts.

And of course I don't drink coffee.

I totally was like coffee in the first game.

Coffee and I refused it and everybody went,

Oh.

Anyway,

So because if they give up,

If they can give you something then they do for themselves more than their joint for you.

And I went to this one temple that was incredible.

And this boy was up there,

His father had died and he just started living there.

And I wanted to give some money at the end.

And they said,

No,

No,

Don't give him any money.

You already gave.

I said,

Well,

What did I give?

They said,

You gave your time.

You came here and listened to his story.

And that's something else that we don't do.

We don't listen anymore.

We don't think time to hear the stories.

We go in and we see,

We judge,

And then we tell what you need to do to feel better.

And I just came across a quote.

It said something about too bad that you,

I spent so much time weeding somebody else's garden that I didn't have time to grow my own seed.

Well,

That's very wise saying,

And it is true.

And I'm sure you realized as you did these long and rather arduous trips,

Each one that you took under circumstances that you had a lot of times no control over with no complaining,

With no complaining,

There was many things that you learned and you seem to have learned so much about,

I hear so much how you learn from other people about their giving to you.

And then when you come back and you decide to deal with everything you have to deal with in your life and indeed take it the next step,

You went into another stage which was writing your first book,

The Way Shower,

Is it?

The Way Maker,

I had written years ago but nobody would buy the Hiroshima stories at that time which is part of one of my speeches I won't go into now but how it was actually refused.

But what I did,

I did the interviews.

And so I decided to actually self publish them myself thanks to Denise A.

Veterans and Peter.

And anyway,

Interviews with people and they are the way makers because right now they're victims.

But the idea of the way maker is that we give them,

They're not just victims like the buildings that fell down in the city that disappeared and the people who disappeared.

They are people who are showing us that war doesn't work and the humanity of it.

Therefore,

A way maker is anybody who helps you along your way on your journey.

So right now,

Cindy,

You're my way maker for the next step.

You're my way maker.

And when you made that deep commitment to interview these people who had gone through horrific,

Horrific,

I mean,

For us,

As you say,

Westerners,

We can't even imagine what it was like.

No,

You cannot.

Hiroshima,

We don't know that,

We haven't experienced that.

And we do complain about a lot of things when we were cut so much.

But you went to places where people saw things and went through things and lost loved ones in ways that we can't even begin to imagine.

Now,

How did that affect you?

Well,

It changed my life.

It changed my entire thinking.

It changed my children's thinking because one way it was a mistake,

My poor four-year-old son was in the interviews with me because he wasn't in school yet.

So he was listening to all these horrible horror stories and then he had nuclear nightmares.

So,

But I mean,

It's changed all of our lives.

And I think really I can't relax.

I feel,

I mean,

I enjoy,

I love life and I really hope to live to be 125 or at least the oldest living person in the world.

That's my goal.

Where are my goals?

I figure by that time all the bills were paid and I can actually get these stories out because I have really a ton of them I'm starting to work on.

But anyway,

How did it affect me?

It made me realize that violence isn't the answer.

I was raised with violence.

I was raised in violence.

I was raised to like violence.

I was raised to fight.

And part of that is very good,

But I after Hiroshima realized that it doesn't work.

So now what I'm trying to do is find solutions and that's what I'm working on right now because just take the sugar mill for instance.

All of a sudden we decide we don't want the black meat.

No,

So we shut down and we don't have a solution.

So here we are,

How many years later and we still have all these people unemployed and there are ways to do things.

And that's what I learned as I traveled.

These cultures that are thousands of years old they take their children and they teach them.

They teach them how to behave.

They teach them how to treat each other.

Look at Japan.

You can go drop your wallet on the street and you'll get it back the next day with not a penny taken out.

No,

There's no violence.

Now they may feel it,

But they show respect.

They're taught to show their respect and it's a saving face and have to get along to build things positive.

And anyway,

So yes,

It's just a whole new,

There's a whole other side.

We judge,

We judge,

We judge.

I think my biggest lesson and my hardest lesson learning not to judge.

No right or wrong is what works or what doesn't work.

And it gives you space between.

I thought my bicycle was stolen.

It said no,

It was borrowed.

And they should go back and go find it.

I went back,

It wasn't there.

They said,

Did you find your bike?

I said,

No,

I told you it was stolen.

They said,

You Americans judge too much.

They said,

Is everything right or wrong?

I said,

Yeah.

I said,

But when I park my bike and I go back and it's not there,

We call that stolen.

And they were just all discussing with me and stopped the subject.

What was interesting,

And I went to Hiroshima and a spike was stolen again.

And I went down,

The teacher said,

You are late.

I said,

Yes,

But my bicycle was stolen.

I had to run.

And they said,

Oh,

Your bicycle wasn't stolen.

Japanese don't steal.

And I said,

Oh,

That's right.

It was just taken by an old man who was tired and he just borrowed my bike.

And she said,

Oh,

You understand Japanese very well.

I said,

Yes,

He was the same man that stolen the other island.

He got mad at me.

Well,

Walking down the street a couple of months later,

Got lost,

Was on the wrong street.

There was my bicycle with every single thing in it.

My bag,

My books,

Everything.

It wasn't stolen.

It was borrowed.

And they told me.

And then I started,

Then another kid's bike was stolen.

And we all said,

No,

No,

It was borrowed.

And we showed them how to look with our new thinking because there's a space there.

And that's what we don't do as Americans.

We don't allow time for the space.

We are instant,

Instant judge bad.

We are a fast food culture,

Absolutely.

Patience is a hard lesson to learn for us because we are used to.

And in fact,

Everything we've developed with social media has reinforced getting the information immediately,

Having answers by Google or Siri immediately,

And wanting to know quickly to the point where we want our news stories to be like each story shouldn't be more than two or three minutes because we'll lose patience with it.

And I have to say in meditation and in Buddhism,

When you sit,

You learn more of that patience.

In fact,

When I started Buddhism many,

Many years ago,

I realized that the people who freaked out were the ones who thought they'd get enlightened within a certain time or they had a goal or they get certain rewards or something,

Titles.

And it's the long run.

It's lifetime,

You know.

And you do learn that in certain practices.

You know,

In the culture of Japan.

Yes,

And not just Japan.

So many cultures understand it.

And I know it was in the 50s,

1955 or so,

We had a theater teacher who was always complaining about how we are becoming an instant society.

We expect instant fame,

Instant this,

Instant that.

And then we do.

We are an instant society.

So we're not taking time to observe.

We judge instead.

And Christ said,

Judging,

One thing I like about Buddhism,

They take and they show how not to judge.

Whereas we don't know how not to judge.

And if you judge,

Then you punish.

But if you observe,

Then you help.

And I think that that's a really big difference between the East and the West.

And you can be discerning.

You can be objective and discerning.

It doesn't mean you can't learn from a situation.

But then,

Like you say,

We want black and white.

Judge this is good,

This is bad.

And that leaves out that whole middle path in between that you can follow.

But that's not good or bad.

And that was the kind of the thing with the sugar mill.

We didn't take time to develop for everybody.

We let a small group destroy something.

And now we're complaining because Mao is a one industry island.

What are we going to do?

Well,

We should have asked those questions before.

Just sit down and call me.

So you ask how I change.

That's the main thing.

I try very hard to observe.

And I find my life changing because of it.

When you talked with these individuals who had gone through such terrible wars with the dropping of the bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki,

How did they come to peace with what had been done to them?

How did forgiveness play a role in how they could survive after they had to continue on after this,

I mean,

Beyond post-traumatic stress syndrome?

What did you see in their lives that allowed them to forgive us?

Well,

A lot of people didn't forgive us.

But interestingly enough,

The couple of people I'm thinking of who were still very anti-American weren't actually survivors of the bomb.

I think the survivors understood something that none of us will ever understand.

It was just mind boggling.

People were vaporized.

Their shadows are still there,

Still there today where they were sitting because we're water.

And it was so hot they just went,

Psh,

Like you dropped some water on a hot skillet.

It was amazing how we took the time to develop something so horrible.

And we were all part of that because we paid for our taxes.

We supported it.

I went to the museum.

I saw the Hanoi Hotel,

John McCain.

And they did the war museum for every culture that they ever had a fight with.

And I went to the French section with those guillotines.

I mean,

There were a lot of guillotines right there.

You go up and touch them.

And the idea of it just coming down and chopping off somebody's head,

I mean,

Yeah,

We've been doing this for centuries.

That doesn't mean we can't change.

If we can develop something that kills so well,

We can develop things to move us on.

And I personally think that this is the century that is happening.

You've heard more and more and more talk about peace in this century than you've heard at all.

Even one of the political people are talking about,

Yes,

Building the military,

But no more senseless wars.

And I think that's a seed.

I think we've got to get out of the war.

And if we do,

We're going to find solutions.

I mean,

The North Korean guy who was going to do the,

You know,

He was brought into the fold.

You know,

We can do it.

But we just have to stop judging,

Blaming.

Because when we blame and complain,

We're just taking the responsibility off ourselves and putting it on somebody else.

No,

That's very,

Very true.

And I know you carried your mission.

You took your books and you went to Washington.

Yes,

I did.

I dropped them off to every senator.

There's 535 people down there.

What do I want to call them?

House of Representatives?

Representatives?

Yeah,

The senators in Congress,

You know,

The whole group.

The 535 who are determining this country for us.

And the sad thing is we are allowing them to determine.

I mean,

How much stronger we are with people?

How many millions of people are we?

And we're letting 535 people mess up.

Look what happened these last four years.

I mean,

I don't care what your independent,

Republican,

Democrat,

Greed.

This is great.

What country acts like this?

Especially a country that has everything.

And out of all that time and energy you put into that trip,

I believe you told me only Mazie Hirono took the time to actually sit down and hear your story and meet with you.

She not only met with me,

She wrote me when I came home.

It was amazing.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

I mean,

Other people talked to me.

Even reaching that one person,

Reaching Mazie Hirono and you making that connection was a huge step.

You weren't able to reach all of them,

But you did find someone there that was able to listen.

Yes,

And you know what?

I left the book and maybe they didn't read it right away,

But maybe someday they'll pick it up and read it.

And I met a young man.

His name was Will.

Anyway,

He was an aide.

And a lot of the aides sat down and talked,

Which I thought was great because they're the millennials.

Yes,

They're the young people doing hard work.

Yeah,

That's right.

So maybe it didn't get into the tough guy,

But yes.

Well,

I think that your life is an amazing example of how you follow the path to peace and how you live your life and learn from the lessons you've learned.

And you've learned a lot.

I also am very excited.

This is the first I've heard that you're working on a new book.

So I think that's wonderful.

And I think you're even planning another trip to Japan next year.

I am.

I will be 80 years old,

God willing,

And I think he is,

In a few weeks.

And so I have been saying for many years,

On my 80th birthday,

Meaning my 80th year,

I'm going to take off and just no plans,

Just do the world.

I love when I talk about faith.

Well,

And it was supposed to happen in October,

About the coronavirus.

So it's going to be,

I'm leaving March 1st.

And Deidre's going to come on the first leg with me because we're going to go over to Japan.

And she has some things to do for the DC veterans here.

And we're going to do a couple of pilgrimages together.

And I'm going to see if she can find Temple 2 from Temple 1.

I have a feeling she will.

She's very organized.

You talk to Deidre and your son a lot.

And they're wonderful,

Beautiful beings.

They've learned a lot from you.

They are.

They're carrying on your work so beautifully.

Yes,

And I think the other thing is that that whole thing that I did when I went to Japan,

I don't necessarily think that was for me.

I'm thinking that maybe it was for Deidre and Gavin.

And they're going to move it to the next generation.

That gives me hope.

Yeah.

It gives me hope.

And I love when I find people like you that are touching people's lives on the path to peace,

The way makers.

And you are a way maker.

I found you did.

I think Deidre helped you put together a lovely website.

I found it.

And you had a beautiful picture of you there.

She did a beautiful job.

I haven't done anything with it.

But I have signed up for a course with the MEO Gares of Business course that starts November 3,

I think.

And it's how to put it all together.

And it goes twice a week through December.

And so at that time,

I'm going to focus on the website.

Right now,

I'm focusing on getting The Walk,

That's the working title about The Pilgrimage.

And it's finished.

It is 99% finished.

I just have to clean it up a little bit.

And then I have to find a publisher because this is what I'm going to publish.

I want somebody else to publish.

I don't want to self-publish.

And by the way,

The first book I ever wrote was a book on hobos.

And that was going to be your third book.

Yes.

And I've done a lot of newspaper and magazine writing.

But I really want to do the books.

Well,

I love what you do.

And I thank you for getting up early and taking the time and for Deidre and you to make it possible for us to talk about your story and how you followed that path of peace and where it led you and the lessons you learned along the way.

I really just honor you.

And I love you.

And I just think you're just a wonderful person.

And we'll have to have another talk once the book is done.

OK.

And I just want to say congratulations to you for the award that you won recently.

And not only that,

Congratulations to you for your talk about steps,

Taking the steps with this.

Wow.

This is a great idea.

And I hope that you call me back.

It came about after we talked.

And that inspired this.

You inspired me.

Well,

I hope that we keep in contact.

And yes,

I think congratulations to you.

And congratulations to everybody who takes the time to listen and maybe turn around and do an action on what's said here.

If nothing else,

Tell everybody in your family,

No complaining on Fridays.

Got it.

I love it.

Thank you so very,

Very much.

It's been an honor to talk to you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Aloha.

Reviews

Very interesting. Thank you