Peace Projects,Robert Dubial

A Peace Projects interview with Spiritual Counselor, astrologer, Reiki Master, Shaman and world traveler. He has authored 2 books, "The Practical Shaman" and "Body Signals.'We have a deep look into the ways we can work with Peace.

Transcript

I am so very happy to have a wonderful friend,

Robert Dubiel on the Peace Projects.

I'm Cindy Palos and I started the Peace Projects because I got this UNESCO Peace Award and I thought,

Well,

Wait,

Can I get back?

How can I get back?

And one thing I've been doing for many,

Many years is interviews and communicating mostly on radio.

Some used to be TV,

But now I'm doing it by Zoom,

Which is creating all kinds of interesting learning experiences.

Robert Dubiel and I tried to set it up earlier and I had to keep reminding myself,

I'm talking about peace because it couldn't connect the first time,

But perseverance furthers.

Aloha,

Robert.

Good to see you.

Aloha,

Cindy.

Robert's done some beautiful work.

Yes,

I'm used to Zoom now.

I've become relatively Zoom proficient.

This year because of COVID,

But I've been using Skype for a long time,

But every app has its own protocols,

But I'm glad that we can connect visually.

I do intuitive coaching and I find that that's often useful to have the visual connection with my clients.

So sometimes I used to find Skype distracting,

But Zoom usually I enjoy seeing the person on the other end.

Well,

You wrote this visual thing.

You did this book,

Body Signs,

Body Signals,

And it's a beautiful book,

Healing Through Physical Intuition,

Which is a lot of the way you actually do your counseling work as well.

You've been a spiritual counselor for how many years now?

44.

That long,

Really?

Wow.

I got involved in my youth.

Talking about peace,

I was thinking about various peace projects that I've done and I used to call myself a citizen diplomat in the 80s and how Body Signals got started,

I started teaching the system in Russia.

I was on citizen diplomacy missions in Russia and I started offering classes there on physical intuition,

Shamanism,

And rebirthing or conscious breathing.

And so later I was the reiki guru of Cuba.

And when I was sent to Cuba by my guides,

I was literally watching a film,

Strawberries and Chocolate,

Which was about gay life in Cuba.

And suddenly I thought,

It's time for me to go to Cuba.

This was out of the blue.

I'd never thought about going there.

This was 1996.

And I got the date,

Which was April 15th.

This was late February of 1996.

Three days later,

The US tightened the embargo,

The trade embargo on Cuba.

And then I knew why I was being sent there.

I'm speaking as a mystic,

Getting orders or suggestions from my guides.

But peace is not only about negotiation,

Although I have a great respect for negotiators.

But there are so many different ways we can be instruments of peace.

And so when I went to Cuba,

I met fellow shamans and I started teaching reiki healing there.

From my perspective,

That was peace.

I was promoting peace informally as an individual between our two nations.

I'm an individual.

I didn't have official status from the United States.

As a matter of fact,

I generally went in Russian,

They would say,

Kokzayets,

Like a rabbit.

That means surreptitiously under the radar through Cancun.

Because in those days,

Even now,

We can't really travel 100% freely in Cuba.

There's still restrictions.

But if we're sent to places,

We find a way to do the work.

You're a traveling diplomat of the spiritual,

Because you've always been very true to your inner self and to your own guides.

You can share that in your teaching.

And I kind of wonder in these travels,

And you have traveled the whole world and have a part-time residence in Thailand and spend a lot of time traveling.

And as a citizen of the world and not just of one country,

And as a person who is looking at things as a spiritual counselor,

Are you able to have more freedom to communicate the truth and not represent yourself as one person from one country,

But just a soul that is trying to help people?

I realize that I'm always representing the United States.

Interesting.

I'm always seen as an American.

And yet,

Many,

Many times,

I've been told,

You are not a typical American,

Because they expect Americans to be materialistic and good business people.

And I come from a different perspective as a mystic.

And so for me,

The key of my work is respecting the local culture.

That means finding out about it.

In Thailand,

Weekly,

Usually when I'm there,

Tuesday mornings,

I take a walk around the old city.

There are many temples and chedis or stupas,

Many sacred sites there.

And I have a little circuit.

I go to three different sites,

And I make offerings.

And no Falang,

No Haoles do this.

My friend Sam and I are the only Haoles that I've ever seen doing this.

For those who are watching,

If you don't understand Hawaiian,

I have to translate here.

Some people may not know Haole in Hawaiian means a white person.

Yes.

White person,

Gringo,

We say Falang in Thai,

Same thing.

So I try to respect the local culture wherever I am.

I remember I decided to walk up the mountain overlooking Chiang Mai,

And this was in the hot season.

But it wasn't that bad.

But nobody does this except for sacred purposes.

In other words,

It's a sacred mountain.

So if you're walking up 3,

500 feet,

Or I guess really it's only 2,

500.

But it's a steep trek.

My driver in the taxi that I took to the trailhead,

He knew I was doing it.

I probably explained it to him as I speak Thai.

But he literally hugged me.

He didn't know me,

But he hugged me as I got out of the taxi,

Because I was honoring the sacred mountain.

That was very impressive to me that he got it.

He was very pleased by my gesture of respect to the sacred mountain.

So that's how I'm doing the peace.

I'm promoting peace on the earth through shamanism.

That's primarily how I do it.

I used to,

In Russia and Cuba,

Teach groups.

The last time I was in Cuba in 2005,

There was no freedom of assembly there.

But I promoted a free meeting at the Anglican Cathedral.

And literally,

People were sitting in the aisles.

500 people showed up.

Only with me,

The Cubans allowed me to have groups,

Even large groups,

Which are not allowed in that country.

But it's not because of me.

It's because of the work I'm doing.

In other words,

I felt protected by spirit.

I felt supported by spirit.

So if spirit told me,

Have a public meeting,

I didn't worry about,

This is against the law.

I could get arrested.

I never worried about those things.

That's counterproductive anyway.

I mean,

Sometimes after I left the country,

Then I would think about this.

Even recently in Mexico,

I talked my way in to do a meditation by a vortex in Los Cabos.

And afterwards,

I realized this was a closed resort.

How did you do this?

Because when there's a need for it,

We get support.

So we need to ask for that support and really expect it from whatever you want to call it,

From spirit,

From your inner guidance,

From your soul,

Your inner self.

It's there.

That support is there when we're doing work that's bigger than us.

I think of peace as kind of,

It transcends personal boundaries.

Right now,

Or recently,

Well,

Even now,

During the election,

I decided to align with Gaia rather than a political party or a particular candidate,

To align with Gaia and her interests.

Gaia being the light body of the earth.

And so lately I've been working with my friends,

The Kachinas from Arizona.

It's all one planet.

So even though I'm here in Maui,

I'm working with the Kachinas and I'm working with opening up an upshoot vortex in the Capitol building.

I can do that wherever I am,

But I'm doing it for the benefit of the earth,

Not to punish a particular party or a particular person or promote someone else.

I want to transcend political boundaries in my work.

I don't know if that makes sense,

But that's my attitude.

Let's talk about being a shaman because when you started becoming a shaman and doing shaman work,

It wasn't quite as accepted or understood.

I think Carlos Castaneda and maybe a couple of people were shamans understood.

And since then,

It's become sometimes now commercialized quite a bit by a few people who think that they can make a lot of money by calling themselves a shaman or taking a course in shamanism.

But shamanism is something that goes into a higher level that is more than just taking a course.

You wrote a book that talks about this.

And I liked the fact that you talked about being a practical shaman because I like even to term practical mysticism because you can go into all these places,

But unless you can bring it back into your daily life and in ways that people can be helped by it and understood,

A lot of that might just be for your own ego.

So when you started the path of shamanism,

What brought you to that point where you felt like you could call yourself a shaman?

I kind of went through a field of resistance.

I had started an Egyptian healing group in Chicago,

My hometown.

And right at the very beginning,

I met a shaman from Mexico.

And my guide said,

Include shamanism as part of your group topic.

This was not on my original agenda at all,

But I followed orders.

I followed their suggestion.

So I was doing the Egyptian part.

Jose was doing the shamanistic part.

That opened me up to a different perspective.

Then Elizabeth Cogburn,

She was my first shamanic teacher.

She was teaching a weekend workshop,

Combining the Kabbalah,

Jewish mysticism,

With shamanism.

So again,

A very eclectic thing.

I was already a Kabbalist studying Kabbalah.

And so I came to shamanism through Egyptian healing and the Kabbalah,

Other forms of healing and mysticism that I was already familiar with.

And I felt more grounded.

I'm an Aquarian,

So I'm not naturally grounded.

And shamanism really helped me feel my connection with the earth.

And I became a pipe carrier.

This was in the early 80s.

So actually,

Native American spirituality was very popular in the 80s.

There were Native American gift stores.

It was all over the place.

But I would lead full moon meditations or various groups in the woods.

Urban people,

My urban students would sometimes come in the mud wearing high heels.

It was like,

Urban people,

What are you thinking?

It's the wet season.

We're walking in the woods.

Why would you wear heels?

But it was just like introducing them to a different mindset.

But it's the power of the earth.

The earth is our mother.

But we are a facet of the earth.

Every individual,

The shaman believes that we're all facets of Mother Earth.

We're all outcroppings.

We're all manifestations of Mother Earth.

So as we know,

Here in Hawaii,

There's a native tradition which supports that.

Sometimes they're called kahunas here.

But there's a native Hawaiian spiritual tradition to work with healing,

To work with plants,

To work with power,

The power like the weather,

For example.

I consider myself a weather working shaman.

So I expect the weather to cooperate with me.

And if I'm told,

Go to Pi'i Holau in the mountains where it rains a lot,

Monday morning,

I go.

If I'm told to go at 11,

I go at 11.

And I expect the weather to cooperate,

Not because of ego,

But because that's the timing that I'm meant to be in.

So I feel,

Countless times I've felt the support of Mother Earth.

People say,

Well,

We can't do it because of the weather.

Not a valid excuse when you're a shaman.

Sometimes I've done ritual more than once where it would be raining the whole time of the ritual.

And then when the ritual was over,

The rain would stop.

And vice versa as well.

I'd be visiting a sacred site,

The sun would come up.

As soon as I finished my visit,

It started raining.

So I'm kind of just used to that elasticity,

The give and take.

I really encourage people to have that attitude,

The give and take attitude that we are a part of nature.

We're really not separate from nature at all.

So the peace implies there's no separation.

So if we have to visit a place and try to commune with it,

That's a whole different thing.

I remember many years ago before I moved to Maui,

I was on the winter solstice offering Pele at the summit of Haleakala.

I was doing a ritual and I threw a bottle of gin into the crater and papaya.

And this kid,

He was just a friend of mine and I,

But he was like a 13 year old kid.

He was with his family,

But he was present for the meditation.

And it felt like he was meant to be there.

He was a witness for this.

And hopefully I helped him become a budding shaman.

It was part of his life purpose.

I thought,

What is this kid doing here?

I want privacy.

As a shaman,

It's like a war between my shamanism and my Aquarian nature.

My Aquarian is very inclusive and my shaman is very private.

I'm very private and I understand that and I'm an Aquarian,

But I feel private.

And I've been having to follow what you said in the beginning is following that intuition into letting that private self out more and more.

And that's part of why I'm doing these Zoom meetings.

A part of you that I love that you don't talk about as much,

But I have seen this part of you that I really respect as an astrologer.

And I don't know if you've heard about on December 21st,

Which happens to be the solstice,

Winter solstice,

Jupiter and Saturn are aligning.

The first time that they've aligned like this in 800 years and what it's called the Christmas star because it's happening right before Christmas and it's going to happen.

It's very,

Very visible.

They're closely aligned to each other to almost appears one mega celestial body or Christmas star in the night sky.

So it says this celestial synchronization has been imminent since summer as the two planets have been moving closer in the night sky.

So you know about Jupiter and you know about Saturn and then you know about the power of the solstice.

What is your take on this energy of these two planets coming at winter solstice so close that they cause a bright light in the sky at night?

Jupiter is expansive.

Saturn is constricting,

Not in a bad way,

But it focuses,

But Jupiter expands.

So for me,

I'm just kind of talking off the top of my head here.

It's a balance.

So it's the balance,

Which is what we've been really talking about just now,

That balance between the introspection and the sharing.

So the balance of open to new ideas and now with COVID we're reaching a new soul level as humanity.

So it's being open for doing things in a new way,

But at the same time,

Saturn grounds us.

And you know,

It's also interesting.

Jupiter is the ruler of Sagittarius and so at the solstice,

We end Sagittarius and begin Capricorn.

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn.

So it really is that point of focus,

That point of balance between the two signs.

That's what I would say.

I would say it's an opportunity to ask for balance,

To breathe in balance from the cosmos.

The balance is available,

But we always have free will.

So we need to say,

I choose balance.

Please give me balance.

Lately,

My guys have been using the affirmation,

I choose.

Earlier this year,

They gave me an affirmation,

Which still is kind of mind blowing.

They suggested I say,

I choose divinity and transcendence.

I can understand,

But divinity seems a little presumptuous.

No,

It is not at all.

Totally love I choose divinity.

In fact,

I'm going to take it.

And I'm glad you brought that because I'm going to use that,

Which brings me to a topic I did want to ask you about.

I've been a friend of yours for years and I've known you actually were going to become a priest and you were studying.

I guess it was,

Was it even when you're about 17 or 18,

You went to become,

Thinking of becoming a priest and you were following the Catholic religion?

13.

It was 13.

I left seminary when I was 20.

And so then I became an agnostic.

I didn't even believe God for a few years.

Oh,

I didn't know that.

But you know,

From one extreme to the other,

My spirit guides informed me that I should stop praying to them.

They said,

Pray to God,

Don't put us on a pedestal.

I said,

Gee,

I guess there's a God then.

So after about five years of being an agnostic,

I returned to spirituality in a deistic way,

Theistic way,

Not necessarily a religious way,

But the shamanistic way,

Which is the direct connection to source.

So yeah,

When I say I choose divinity,

That stretches me.

It's an expansion of my envelope,

My personal human envelope,

But it seems like with Jupiter and Saturn,

Yeah,

We can say I choose divinity.

That's what it's really an opportunity for us to do.

And I did want to recognize the fact that you do wonderful counseling and you've been a spiritual counselor for many years to bring that back in and tie that into the piece.

When you have people coming to you,

I know they want,

Because you're psychic,

They want direction on what to do,

But a lot of times they come to you,

I'm sure one of the most asked things for people that were psychics also is about relationships.

And sometimes when they're turmoil within turmoil or turmoil within themselves,

They want help to come to some kind of peace.

So how do you use peace to bring someone who's going through a very hard time or lack of decisions or complete unknowing of what they should do in their life?

How do you bring them to that state of peace?

What I just got chills on in response,

Which is validation,

Is I remind people,

I am whole and complete right now in this moment so that we divorce ourselves.

So,

So to speak from the concept,

I need someone specific to make me happy,

Or I cannot be complete without a relationship.

So it's that idea.

I think we hear this a lot in the new age,

But you're whole and complete.

And so you give not because you need something back,

But you have abundance,

You have abundance of love,

You have abundance of peace.

And so you share that,

You share that with your relationship,

You share that with humanity,

You share it with the planet.

But it's that concept,

I can't give what I don't have.

So we cultivate the peace inside,

There's always a connection between soul,

Between our angels or spirit guides and our human personalities.

And really,

I think we're getting a glimpse of this now.

The human personality as we know it is just the tip of the iceberg of who we are.

So often,

Conventional therapy has said,

It's been more behavioristic,

Like,

I'll help you cope with the world and change your behavior so you can just fit in into society.

But my approach is very different.

My healing figure is buzzing as I'm saying this,

The middle finger.

I'm helping people go deeper to access hidden aspects of themselves.

So we are all abundant.

We all have these treasures inside.

And so often,

We really don't manifest our full potential.

And we wonder why life feels arid,

Or empty,

Dry,

Because we're not tapping into who we really are.

There's such a feeling of abundance there.

I'm doing an astrology reading in a couple days.

And looking over the chart,

I'm thinking,

This person has not manifested his life purpose.

So far.

But while there's breath,

There's hope.

And of course,

It's incremental.

We unfold in one aspect and then another,

Step by step.

So it's not taking the cosmic sledgehammer and breaking open the ego.

That's very traumatic.

But knowing that we really are not finished until,

Well,

Really,

We're never finished.

But we're certainly not finished with this lifetime until we draw our last breath.

And so there's always,

I was told this many years ago when I knew someone who had AIDS.

And my guides were really encouraging me to encourage him to keep expanding,

Keep learning,

Keep healing.

And it wasn't like a writing him off.

Like,

Well,

You're terminal,

So much for that.

Better luck next time.

They were saying,

As long as there's breath,

There's hope.

And literally,

I was regrouping this yesterday with a friend,

A fellow astrologer,

About my father who had a horrific death.

It was a fire.

A propane tank exploded in his face.

And we were seeing this from a different perspective,

That literally he was burning karma.

So the last four weeks of his life,

When he was in the hospital with burns,

He was burning karma.

And from visiting him,

I felt that he had that direct access,

In his case,

To the Blessed Mother.

He was very devoted to her.

And I kind of solidified that link when I was visiting him.

And I turned it over to her.

I turned his death over to the Blessed Mother.

But I had the feeling that he was at peace when he passed on.

So if somebody with terrible physical pain can access that peace,

That means it's always available to all of us.

So again,

Not to judge the physical appearance.

Or I was seeing a TV show,

I think,

Recently about,

We're at war.

We can't access peace.

We can't feel peace until this war is over.

It's like,

No,

We have to access the peace 24-7,

Or at least realize that it's available,

No matter what circumstances are going on around us.

And when I was teaching Reiki and meditation in Cuba,

Where there's a totalitarian government,

Again,

Not focusing on the fear,

Not focusing on the privation in people's lives,

But focusing on that direct connection,

Strengthening the direct connection of my students with source,

With the light,

With,

And in Sartoria as well,

The Afro-Cuban religion.

Many traditions have pathways that we can access.

So whatever pathway someone chooses,

They can manifest peace.

Well,

How can people access you,

Contact you,

And find out more about you,

And if they wish,

Book a session?

My phone number for voicemail and text is 808-268-8047.

And my email is zarobert.

Aol.

Com.

That's Z-A-R-O-B-E-R-T at aol.

Com.

Is your website available at zarobert.

Com?

Yes,

Zarobert.

Com.

That's my website.

I just updated it.

Good.

I just tweaked it,

Revised it.

So it's in a form that I'm pleased with.

Good.

I just kind of clarified some of my shamanic perspectives and streamlined the contact page.

So yes,

People can access my website as well.

Well,

I always learned so much and I've known you for so many years and I still learn more every time I see you and talk to you.

It's really wonderful that we persevere and we're able to connect today and share this time.

And I thank you very much for what you're doing,

The work you're doing and for how you're sharing your wisdom.

And I wish you always the blessings from the highest of divinity and peace.

Aloha.

Namaste.

Mahalo Nui Loa,

Cindy.

Yes,

You too.

Thank you.