Memories of Heaven

Dee Garnes and Dr. Wayne Dyer wrote a book together called, Memories of Heaven. It is an astounding account of how young children remember what it was like in Heaven. I spoke to the author, Dee Garnes, shortly after Wayne Dyer passed away. Joining us in the conversation is Waynes's daughter Saje, who has some very moving stories about her father.

Transcript

Aloha and welcome.

I am so thrilled to have in studio today Dee Garns,

Who I met briefly at Dr.

Wayne Dyer's condo a year and a half ago,

I think it was a year and a half ago when I was doing Angel Blessings.

And Dee was talked about,

If you've ever gone to any of Dr.

Dyer's conferences,

I know the one here in Maui,

He would talk about the great work you did as a massage therapist.

I think you specialized in cranial sacral work,

Didn't you?

No?

No,

That was Kate McKinnon.

Oh,

That was Kate.

Yes.

Yes.

And she specialized in that.

I did more of a therapeutic massage.

He had those neck problems and then the lower back problems.

And we,

I gave him massage probably two to three times a week for several years.

How lucky for both you and him.

And you were a neighbor as well.

Yeah,

Next door neighbors.

And then slowly,

I mean,

Actually not slowly,

Probably rather quickly,

We just turned into really good friends.

We just kind of had this connection and,

And,

And he fell in love with my son,

Marcus.

And Marcus was just completely tuned in to spirit.

I mean,

There's a new book you put out,

Which is just heavenly,

Truly,

Truly a blessing book called Memories of Heaven.

And I had been hearing about this.

And I even talked to Wayne back in August this last summer briefly.

And he told me about this book.

And I have it in my hands now.

And it's such a gift.

It's such a gift that you have were able to work with Wayne and get this book out.

And it's already,

You know,

Out there,

You know,

Out there in the world with stories that really are touching and insightful that can change.

I think parents,

Grandparents,

And everyone's perception of how we treat young babies and young children.

Sometimes we act as if they don't know anything.

They're just cute,

Cute,

Cute,

Cute,

You know.

And you can see that they're heavenly.

But but there's some stories in here that really will take people back and just blow their minds,

Including how your son Marcus was completely such,

Such a blessing.

I loved reading in the book,

How he knew you were pregnant before just a few days after you got pregnant.

Oh,

Yeah.

Oh,

Yeah.

I remember it so vividly.

I'm laying in bed and he,

He lifts up my shirt and puts his head on my belly.

And he's and he says,

Baby,

Baby,

This is the very beginning.

And I looked at my husband.

And I was like,

Oh,

My.

And I didn't even know.

And the next day,

We went and I found out I was pregnant.

And how psychic is that?

Yeah.

So doesn't this make you and everyone else much more aware how completely tuned and spiritual beings are babies and young children are?

Oh,

Yes.

Yes,

They.

Wayne.

Wayne always encouraged me to ask Marcus,

You know,

We're asking where he's from.

He was just there asking what God is like.

And and and so I did one day.

And that's when Marcus,

I asked him,

What is God like?

Where are you from?

And he raised both of his arms to the sky and he said,

Light.

And he only how can you have an answer that is so perfect and right with one word with what and how you hardly even three years old.

No,

He was 18 months,

18 months.

So he only he I heard him say before Apple and mama,

You know,

It was clear as day.

Raised his arms to the sky.

And he said,

Light.

You told Wayne.

Oh,

And I told Wayne,

Right away.

Well,

The next morning,

I Wayne said,

Write this down.

So I wrote it down.

And he posted it on his Facebook page.

And the stories just poured in.

Parents from all over the world were writing little vignettes of things that their children have said.

And and we got such a response that we decided,

Let's let's invite more parents to share stories.

And,

And,

And we did,

And they all poured in,

And we ended up we put this book together.

And it's,

It's just amazing.

It's amazing how many stories came in.

And it's amazing how many of these stories were exactly the same.

For example,

There's a chapter in this book called choosing parents.

People from all over the world wrote the same thing that their child said,

I picked you to be my mom,

I picked you to be my dad.

And I,

I never,

Honestly,

Never even considered that before.

I absolutely you know,

What,

D,

I always have believed this.

I've always believed that we do pick our parents.

Yeah,

Sometimes karmically,

Uh-huh.

You know,

And for reasons,

And I believe that in this book,

I think it was in this book,

Or maybe it was in Sky's book,

Where,

Where,

Where they say that how Wayne himself says,

He realized he picked his parents,

Which you think,

Well,

Why in the world would he pick his parents because he was a foster child.

And,

And,

And for him,

That was a huge part of his own resolution,

Trying to figure out how he could resolve that this father would abandon him.

Yeah,

It was abandoned,

You know,

And of course,

That made him more self-reliant.

Yeah,

I think he says that.

Yeah,

I asked him,

I said,

I said,

Why would you choose your parents?

And he said,

And,

And there's so many people out there that would be like,

Why would I choose my parents?

And he said,

For him,

He feels that quite possibly he chose his parents,

Because in this lifetime,

He needed to learn forgiveness.

And it was,

I'm sure you've heard the story about,

You know,

10 years after his father died,

He visited his father's grave,

And he,

He went there to,

You know,

To piss on it.

It's a very,

He wouldn't back out.

I know.

He's told the story.

Yeah,

And he ended up forgiving his father.

And it was that forgiveness that turned his whole entire life around.

And so,

So if he hadn't have chosen that path,

Nothing else would have happened.

Exactly.

And I think he passed away on the exact day,

Was it 30 years later?

41 years later.

It was after that happened.

Yeah,

August 30,

1974,

He talks about all the time was the telling point in his life.

And that was the day that he forgave his father at his grave.

And he ended up transitioning into this next spiritual realm.

Yeah.

On August 30.

Now,

We have to talk about that.

And I know that we're gonna have Sage calling in also,

But,

But here you are.

And you were able to be very close because you were his assistant.

Oh,

Yeah.

Best friends.

Oh,

Yeah.

But on top of that,

You were able to collaborate on this book together.

And here it is about heaven.

And memories of how ironic isn't it?

It's not ironic,

Isn't it?

Yeah.

It wasn't even,

You know,

Came out after five weeks after he he passed.

So did did he get he did he get to read the galleys?

Was it done pretty much by the time?

Oh,

Yeah.

Oh,

Yeah.

Because it takes a long time to get the actual copy after.

So he was able to go through it.

He must have been thrilled.

Oh,

He loved it.

He loved it.

This.

And he said that this book made him not only even more convinced about what is beyond this earthly realm,

But,

But excited to go there.

And,

You know,

Even more excited and,

And comforted.

And so it,

Like Sage had just written on Facebook,

And I agree with her as well,

That this book has helped us cope better with his passing and just making it all seem not even okay,

But great.

This is great.

Thank you,

God.

I know because it is I've always believed it should be a celebration.

But it's in it's been I've been reading about the family and the heartbreak and the sorrow and and you cannot avoid that.

But I think it was Sage,

It might have been Sky.

But I forget who wrote that saying that they're learning suffering and pain at the same time gratitude experience the suffering and the gratitude,

You know,

And not to back off from either because Wayne was an amazing father.

And he loved kids.

Obviously,

He really related.

He was a big kid himself.

I mean,

He really,

Really was.

And I think because I think that's another thing.

I think because he was abandoned and didn't have a father,

I think that made him a much better father to his children,

Because,

I mean,

They would call him all the time.

They were best friends.

And they would,

You know,

And it was kind of a blessing that we'll talk about is that they got to take that trip.

I know,

Sage and I believe Sage and Sky went on.

New Zealand and Australia.

Went to the trip just before.

And there was a lot of we'll go into that more.

But there was a lot of misunderstandings and people thought he had leukemia.

But I know you know,

How diligent he was about his health and his exercise and his diet.

Green smoothies.

Yep.

And three 16 ounce fresh pressed juices every day.

We did his exercises together every day.

He I don't know if you noticed,

But within the last three years,

He looked so much younger.

He lost about 40 pounds.

I think he was gluten free and his skin.

I mean,

The wrinkles were just disappearing.

He was looking amazing.

And when I spoke with the the coroner after the death,

She said that he had the healthiest looking organs that she has ever seen in someone his age.

Really?

And that there was not one trace of leukemia left in his body.

Isn't that and because everyone didn't know at first,

I kind of wished everyone could have waited because everyone just assumed and all you'd hear in the news stories,

He had had leukemia and they assumed that that was what he died from.

But it was not it was a heart problem.

Yeah,

Yeah.

So I know that the family wanted to make that clear,

You know,

Because that was a really miraculous healing.

And it did.

And in a way it was perfect.

It was perfect for him.

He had such such a big heart and he felt things so emotionally.

So it just makes sense that he would go because of his heart.

Well,

And the thing is,

He did not know.

I mean,

At all.

I mean,

I talked to him what about three weeks before he left.

And the one thing he said to me is that,

That he was so busy because I did want him to participate in my new CD project.

And he's saying,

I'm so busy.

I've got so much to do that I don't have enough time for my family.

And I want to spend time with my family.

So I mean,

That's he loved his family.

And people did ask him he said he had about 25 people a day asking him to do things because he was so generous.

Yeah.

And he helped so many people.

I mean,

But but you know,

He'd get you saw what he'd get people to request and the books and the things that came in that people wanted help with were nonstop and he gave money and he helped so many people.

He's most generous person.

I've which must have been hard at kind of acting as his assistant to see all this at the same time.

How do you handle something?

Were you seeing someone so beautiful and so giving at the same time knowing that they don't have enough time to do everything they need to do?

You know,

The family and everything?

Yeah,

Yeah,

He's a very busy schedule.

He's going nonstop.

Yeah.

And for someone who who is a writer,

You need quiet time.

Yeah,

You need hours to read and write.

And so that was that was something I struggled with because he you know,

Wanted to he was just so nice and giving of his time.

Very,

Very hard for him to say no.

So with memories of heaven,

How did you go about gathering the information you got and then reviewing it and and deciding out of all those stories?

There was one story I have to talk about,

Which was so beautiful and kind of referred to what you said,

Which was where the mother saw the son crying one time going to sleep.

And she'd been kind of strict with him.

And and and she asked her son,

Well,

Why are you crying?

And he said she said to her,

I miss my mother in heaven.

Yeah,

I miss my mother in heaven.

And I think he's a pure love or something.

Yeah,

That story.

She he said,

He said,

I want my other mother.

I want my other and she she was like,

What are you what are you talking about?

And,

And she internally always battled that she wasn't giving enough to her son,

I guess she felt like she was just kind of going through the motions of,

Of parenting,

But not giving.

I don't know,

She felt some sort of detachment.

Well,

He said he wanted his other mother in heaven,

It was too hard being here.

And he wanted his other mother in heaven.

And she said,

What are you talking about?

And what does your other mother have that I'm not giving you?

And he said,

Pure love.

And she said,

From that moment on,

It awakened this,

The divine mother inside of her.

And she felt like this,

This was meant to happen,

Because it taught her in this lifetime,

What pure,

True love is.

And from that moment on,

She's just has been awakened.

And she just loves herself loves her child.

And it was a turning point in her life.

Were you pregnant with your second son while you were writing memories of heaven?

Yeah,

With my daughter,

Shiloh.

I was pregnant with Shiloh.

And Marcus was a little over a year and a half old.

And so that was that was just beautiful and amazing to have a baby in my belly and have this little toddler while putting together this book and reading all these stories.

It was just amazing.

I can share with you one of Wayne's favorite stories that he left to share was,

There was a a mother,

And she had this little baby that she would sing this lullaby to.

And she made it up.

She made up this lullaby and she would sing it to her baby all the time while the baby passed away,

When it was about a year old.

And so she never,

Again,

Sang that lullaby,

It was just too painful.

Well,

Seven years later,

She had an unplanned pregnancy.

And when that baby was two years old,

That little girl started singing this lullaby.

And the mother,

The mother said,

Where did you hear that?

Like,

Where did you hear that song?

And,

And the little girl said,

Oh,

Mommy,

Don't you remember you used to sing that to me when I was a little baby?

Oh,

My God.

What an amazing story.

Yeah.

This,

These are miraculous stories that really go beyond.

I mean,

When you hear all these stories,

You must have felt even even believing in these things that is like,

Mind blowing that that there would be this wealth of teachings that are coming through.

Yeah,

These beautiful beings.

Now I do believe and I don't know if you do,

But I do believe,

As we've gone through the last 20 or 30 years,

I know they call them indigo.

Kids,

But I do believe we're also experiencing these really developed souls that are now coming through maybe more than ever.

Do you I mean,

It seems like you're too,

Too beautiful.

Yeah,

I don't know.

I'm a new mother of two little ones.

I don't know.

Is this a new thing?

Or has it always been here?

But but but people just were never open to the idea of,

Of asking for wisdom from these little children.

And that's,

That's my hope with this book is that more parents and grandparents and adults will start looking for answers in these little children as opposed to,

Oh,

They don't know anything,

Right?

They're just little kids.

So I think,

Or I know,

After this book,

They come here with wisdom.

And it's just asking,

Asking questions and just listening or not even asking questions,

But just being aware of,

Of things that they do or say or see,

Like my son Marcus will be out for a walk,

And he'll say,

Oh,

Hi,

And he'll wave.

And there's nothing there.

I don't I don't see anything.

And I don't say to him,

There's nothing there.

What are you looking at?

I say,

Oh,

Hi.

And I,

I play along with him,

Because I want to encourage.

Yeah.

I don't want to program or train him a lot of parents would say there's nothing there.

Yeah,

Yeah.

That that what you see,

I don't see,

Therefore,

It's not there.

And then he'll start learning that I want him to,

I want to encourage that.

And I want more parents to encourage that.

So that we as a whole can start learning more.

The spiritual development of the world is what we come through if we don't tell the kids that it's not true,

That we discourage that and it is discouraged.

It has been discouraged in the past.

You see your imaginary play friends are not real,

You know?

Yeah.

And and and it's it's it's so true.

And I know that you said just a little while ago,

You when when friends would come over after Wayne's passing,

That your son Marcus would say what is a Wayne's home?

Well,

He after his passing,

Marcus would say,

Just out of the blue,

He would say,

Wayne gone,

Wayne home.

And he would say over and over again,

When gone,

Wayne home.

I have I have hundreds of photos on my phone,

Because it just it blew both Wayne and I away.

One and a half years old,

He would just sit on Wayne's lap.

And he'd put his hands in a little prayer position.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne,

I love you.

And he'd say,

Wayne and he would he would either close his eyes or he would just gaze off.

And and they would meditate together.

How sweet.

How sweet.

So and he picked up on that.

It was okay that Wayne was home.

Yeah,

For the first few days,

He was not himself.

He he he just kind of was just quiet.

And it was,

I think,

Too,

He was picking up on the my husband and I being really sad.

And so but yeah,

He's,

He's been okay with it.

And he has just accepted it.

And Wayne's home and,

And here and there,

He'll he'll say he sees Wayne,

He'll point to a rainbow or,

Or,

And it's so it's something that I'm learning that he that Marcus is teaching me is is it's fine.

It's fine.

It's fine.

I there's so many gifts.

I mean,

We all remember the that anyone that had gone to Wayne Wayne's seminars and and and I remember it was about 510 years ago,

The butterfly story,

You know,

How and and I,

I saw this morning in meditation,

Not one butterfly,

But I saw this,

I've never seen anything like it before.

That was weird.

It was like a,

A hanging branch,

Hanging cocoon of like,

I mean,

There's hundreds of butterflies,

Blue butterflies,

Butterflies,

All all hanging,

Hanging down,

You know,

And and just a week or two ago,

I was I had played the seasons of life,

Which he recorded one of my poems on angel blessings.

And I was walking to my car and this butterfly danced around my head circled my head.

And usually butterflies and fly off and but he the butterfly came in and right in front of me landed on a tree and didn't fly away.

I got a picture of it.

And it was just so beautiful,

Just sat there.

And you know,

I got really close within like inches to take a picture with my iPhone.

And you know,

So there's,

Have you had that sense of Wayne's presence because you were so close and you're right there in the building right next door to where he you know,

Was living?

Oh,

I've had.

Yes,

Very much so.

And many signs.

I could go on for two hours.

For example,

Like the the day that he passed.

Well,

Two weeks before he was in New Zealand,

And we would talk on FaceTime because because it wouldn't cost any money.

So so he phoned me on FaceTime.

I pick up my phone,

I turn it on.

And there he is.

With bubbles all around his head.

And he and I just see this big smirk.

I see his face with bubbles all around his head.

He says,

I'm in a bubble bath.

He was just so funny.

I've never known him to take a bubble bath anyways.

And that day that he passed,

I I got in the bath and I went with my babies and then they got out and so I was just sitting there by myself just kind of just zoning out and the I poured the Mr.

Bubble in the tub.

And the jets on my tub have never worked.

Well,

I'm sitting there and all of a sudden,

The jets turn on and there are bubbles everywhere.

They're all over my head and I just started laughing.

And I'm like,

That is great.

That's great.

There's way that I and it's just I mean,

That's just one little thing.

There's so many so many signs that I've had.

But this book is such a beautiful manifestation of the energy of his being generous and giving and encouraging.

You encourage so many people to fulfill their purpose.

Yes.

And and I know he is so happy that he was able to fulfill his purpose with you of getting this memories of heaven out there.

And now you're reaching a huge audience of people because you were kind of always in the background and you know,

The friend next door.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel I mean,

So I mean,

I'm humbled.

I'm honored that I am a part of this,

This legacy that he's left on and.

And again,

It's his generosity because you knew this and he knew it.

And just like he helped Anita Morjani.

Yes.

And like he helped Immaculee,

The Bigaza.

But he was able to allow you and his daughters to to live a dream and get a book out that is just precious and beautiful.

It's on Amazon.

Hay House has it.

Yep.

As well.

Barnes and Noble.

Are you going to be following this up with any kind of touring?

You're going to be doing a few few places and.

Yep.

Is in the works right now.

So.

So how did it feel when you actually get your first and it's always for the first time for any author of your book and this is yours and Wayne's to get that book.

How did it feel for you?

Oh,

Absolutely.

Amazing and bittersweet.

And and.

So he was gone when you actually got the hard copy.

Yes.

When I got the hard copy,

He gave me a couple paperback copies.

They did a quick a quick print of some paperbacks for Australia,

New Zealand.

And so he came back and he gave me two paperback copies and and the two of us were jumping up and down.

And he he said,

I am so he was so thrilled with this book.

And he said,

And I'm so happy that it was you.

We did this.

Look at this.

We did this.

So that was that's a fun memory.

I always have.

Well,

Yeah,

That he got to have that and actually see it.

You know,

Wayne was Wayne was a very beautiful soul and he helped so many millions of people.

So many people.

So many millions of people.

And and this legacy of his speaks on through you and him now that,

You know,

You'll be going on and it's just come out after he's gone.

Is it's an amazing miracle that this legacy continues and that it continues on for the children.

Yeah.

These babies.

Yeah.

And your babies will have it for their life.

I'm guessing it always blows my mind to think that these children coming in right now,

Your children are going to be around after,

You know,

The end of the century,

Most likely.

And they will have that legacy of remembering through this book what they probably would have forgotten if they you know,

Because children don't remember.

Did you get a sense in this book of when children start to lose that memory of heaven?

Yes.

And I've read a lot of other books on this topic.

It seems that around the age of five or six,

Children start to forget.

And another a piece of advice for any parents out there that are listening is it seems like the best time to inquire is right before they're about to go to sleep.

They're calm and they're quiet.

And and and just say,

Hey,

Do you remember where you were before you were here?

Or do you remember being in my belly or anything?

What was heaven like?

What was God like?

And and the answer is it's just amazing.

It really is.

And I think it explains a lot to parents.

It's so much more.

I think it's so much more than we even know.

Oh,

It's so much more.

I the more I am.

I'm just constantly like Wayne always says,

Have a mind that is open to everything.

And I think there's a great quote here from A Course in Miracles.

I don't know if I'll be able to find it,

Which is quoted in the beginning,

I think about about that.

You know,

Yeah,

Here it is.

In A Course in Miracles,

The memory of God comes to the quiet mind.

It cannot come where there is conflict.

For a mind at war against itself remembers not eternal gentleness.

What you remember is part of you.

Let all this madness be undone for you and in turn and turn in peace to the remembrance of God still shining in your quiet mind,

Which is a lovely way to start a book with that.

And it's so true.

You know,

Of course,

Wayne was wonderful.

He knew more quotes from more people than anyone I've ever met.

He could quote he could quote,

You know,

He memorized these quotes and even put them up on his walls and he had this quote everywhere.

Like he like with that quote right there,

The memory of God comes to a quiet mind.

So if you want to ask your child about something,

Do it,

Like I said,

Right before they go to sleep,

When they're quiet,

Not when they're watching cartoons or playing with their toys.

It's it seems I've had better luck.

And from what I've read,

A lot of people have had really good luck around that time.

Like there's one story in there.

This mother heard her children talking and it was bedtime,

So she was going up to school them.

They need to get in bed.

And she went up to the door and she heard them and their tone got quiet and serious.

So she just stopped right outside the door and listened.

And the older child said to the younger one,

She said,

Caroline,

Do you remember what it was like before you were here?

And the little girl said,

Oh,

Yeah,

I remember.

I saw everything.

I saw I saw Grammy and Grampy and and mommy and daddy.

And I saw you.

I saw everything.

And the older one said,

Caroline,

I'm starting to forget.

And the younger one said,

I know,

I know.

And then and then one of them changed the subject and they went back to playing.

But the mother stood outside the door and listened to that.

And that story is in this book.

And what a touching story.

Oh,

It's just chicken skin area.

It's like,

No,

But you know what?

It's true.

But you know what's interesting?

Two things you said that makes me think of what you're saying.

When we go to sleep,

We do go to a part of that.

So when you also talk to your children before they go to sleep about this.

Oh,

I think this is Sage calling it.

Aloha.

Is this Sage?

Yes.

Hi,

Sage.

Hi,

Sage.

We're here together.

How are you?

I'm good.

How are you?

I'm great.

I am great.

We were just talking about this wonderful time that you can have before a child goes to sleep and then talk to them about memories of heaven and ask them if they remember anything.

And I was just thinking that's a great thing,

Dee,

Because that's time also where you do go back.

So by planting that question in their minds,

Their subconscious carries on with it.

So they probably can also go back to that space while they're sleeping.

Because in a sleep state,

Part of us does go back and they kind of may trigger that in them as well.

And I know,

Sage,

I see you with pictures of Sailor.

And of course,

This book is dedicated,

Wayne dedicated his part to Sailor in this book,

Which is so,

So sweet.

So does Sailor,

I know you adore Sailor,

Even though Sailor's not your child.

I mean,

From the pictures,

People may think this is Sage's.

Daughter,

But no,

It's actually your sister's daughter.

Right.

And she's my niece and she's also my goddaughter.

Well,

But I know you completely adore her.

And and I was wondering,

Did did either you or Wayne or or I know because Wayne was adored Sailor as well.

Did he have a chance to kind of make that connection with Sailor before?

Yeah.

He was able.

Yes.

Yeah,

It was really special,

Actually,

This summer.

Me and Serena were out there at the same time and to help Serena get some extra sleep since she would be up all night feeding her.

I would go over and get Sailor at like 630,

7 a.

M.

And then bring her over to my dad's place where I was staying.

And,

You know,

And I would take care of her for a few hours.

And my dad would be there the whole time.

So he got the you know,

He got a lot of extra time with her in the morning to play before,

Like we all went out and did our errands and things for the day.

So they did get a lot of time together.

Well,

You know,

Even in your book that you did where you got rid of the bumps,

The children's book you did,

That was as that two years ago now or three years ago?

The book was two years ago.

Yeah,

Because I had a chance to interview you and your dad was on the phone before you called in.

And of course,

He was so proud and adored the fact that you were in school in New York and going.

I believe you were going for your you're going for your master's.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Yeah.

Which is I mean,

He was so happy about that in psychology,

Is it?

Yeah,

I'm getting a master's in psychology and also mental health and wellness counseling.

How awesome how awesome is that?

Yeah.

But in that book,

You actually did exactly what some of these children actually are tied into.

You you went in and I remember correctly,

You went in your room and you went I did you say you went under the covers or in a tent and you had a talk?

Yeah,

You had a talk.

I was before I would go to sleep,

I would pull the covers up over my head.

My dad always says I had a flashlight.

I don't remember the flashlight,

But it's possible that that just to me was like a minor detail.

And I really did.

But so anyway,

I would go under there and I would talk to them in my head for like maybe five minutes and then I would go to sleep.

So like what you were just saying about,

You know,

Training the subconscious mind before you go to sleep.

I think that that is a powerful tool because that's exactly how I did it.

It was just before I went to sleep.

And then in the morning,

I would kind of forget about it.

Like I didn't dwell on it all day.

I just went about my day and then did that for three nights.

And then they were gone.

My flat words.

I I think a lot of people may have seen that magical picture that you have is your Facebook page now.

And I'm so glad to see you put that up as your Facebook page that you took or someone took right after Wayne's ashes were scattered up a couple of there and and and there was indeed this beautiful golden light and his face on the water smiling.

For some people,

It might take a little while to look at it and see it.

But but tell us about that experience for you and how,

Again,

This is heaven touching you.

I mean,

Because it's such an amazing experience when there's an enlightened soul like Wayne was with the loving people who adored him like you and D and his whole family.

And here I mean,

For me,

It's the closest experience I've known of where there's all these really aware,

Loving beings that are aware that this is happening and deal with it in a very,

Very powerfully aware and enlightened way.

So can you share that experience if you don't mind?

Absolutely.

Yeah,

We so,

Yeah,

We decided to do what we call the paddle out,

And I don't know if it's exactly a Hawaiian tradition or if we put our own spin on it,

But we we took some of my dad's ashes and then Sam made it for all these flowers,

Candles and made it really pretty.

And and so it floated.

So we took that out into the water and then we all got on boogie boards or surfboards or whatever.

We paddled out maybe like 100 yards and we just sat around the boogie board and all just kind of said something about my dad,

Because,

You know,

We've had all these kind of public,

More public,

You know,

Ceremonies.

But we hadn't had like a private one for just the family,

You know.

So so we did that.

And and Matt Serena's husband stayed on the shore with baby Taylor just because,

You know,

It's too far to take her out into the water.

And so he was taking some photos while we were out there saying prayers and really trying to talk to our dad and like channel his energy.

We were all saying,

We feel like he's here.

We really feel his energy.

The turtles kept popping up and it was just I know we paddled back.

The sun started to go down.

It was such a pretty sunset.

It was actually over at Honolulu Bay.

So it was just like such a beautiful atmosphere.

And then then we started to paddle in because the sun was getting dark.

And so Matt showed us the pictures when we left.

We get in the car and we he's showing us.

He took like 20 pictures and me and Serena were in the backseat zooming in on each one.

And all of a sudden we both like stopped and we saw it at the same time.

And like we grabbed each other.

We're like,

Oh,

My God,

There's a face in the water.

And we were so shocked.

And we look we look none of the other pictures have anything like that.

It's just that one photo where you clearly see his face.

And it's to us,

It's undeniable.

It does take a minute to see,

Because I sent it to some people and they would say,

I don't see it.

I don't see it.

And then all of a sudden they'd be like,

Oh,

My God,

I see it.

You have to look at it like you're looking looking down on the water.

You got to kind of look at that.

And it's a large area,

You know,

And I see auras and energy fields.

And I looked at that picture of you all out there and and there was this amazing energy field of you all.

And there was another energy field on top of it that was very,

Very large.

And I do believe it was Wayne's spirit.

I could see this energy field in the center there over each of your auras.

And it was it was very wonderful.

It was another we're just saying this heaven experience is is just another part of his teaching,

I think.

Don't you feel that way,

Too?

I feel like I've learned so much more.

Since his passing,

Then I haven't,

You know,

Several years of.

Well,

And I was saying to deal a little earlier,

Sage,

That I think is very difficult upbringing without his father and in a way made him even a better father to to all of you,

Because he was such a great father.

And I think that his connection with children is sealed with this lovely going away gift of memories of heaven.

But what a what a complete going away gift to pass on,

Because this is this is a generational thing at this point.

You know,

These beautiful,

Beautiful.

I call them old souls.

And obviously,

I feel these children are very old souls,

Because how can you have how can you have a child like Marcus who comes in and sits and meditates,

You know,

In stillness?

I mean,

I've seen him do it many mornings,

Walking out,

Just waking up and him and my dad sitting there in the chair meditating.

And he's being completely silent and still.

And you couldn't get him to you couldn't get him to play out of it.

Start playing with him.

He would ignore you and say,

No,

You know.

Wow.

Definitely old souls.

But yeah,

I read Memories of Heaven this July when I was out there with my dad because they got their first like electronic copy of it,

Not the official copy of the book.

So I read it and first of all,

I flew through it because it's just like a page turner.

And afterwards I said to my dad and then he had me say this on stage with him several times when we were traveling in Australia.

But I said to him,

This book has made me for two things.

First of all,

It really solidified to me this idea of heaven,

Of an afterlife,

Of like this just isn't all that there is,

That there's more to life than what we can perceive here on Earth,

Because not that I didn't believe it.

But,

You know,

I never I didn't question it because I grew up,

You know,

Believing that with my parents.

But I also didn't necessarily like think about it,

If that makes sense.

Like it wasn't so present in my mind,

Thinking about there's more to life than that,

Like I would just think this is it,

You know,

Even though I believed there was more.

But so reading this book just solidified this idea that there is there has to be more,

There's no way these kids have all these similar stories from all over the world,

Different countries,

Everywhere.

And they're all saying the same ideas.

They have memories from before they got here.

And,

You know,

It's beautiful.

There's been a lot of books.

In fact,

I wrote one called Angel Blessings,

And I had Wayne read two of the poem selections from it on the CD.

But and it's nice to have that because,

You know,

There he is saying in the poems,

You know,

About the seasons of life and the coming and going.

It's a natural thing.

But but as well,

You know,

When you start to get ready to pass,

There's tons of stories as well,

How people,

When they're very close to death,

Start seeing people from the other side.

They have visions.

They they go through a lot of the same process that happens when after they're born happens before they die again.

And it's part of the same beautiful circle of life that happens in transition as you're going through transition.

So I think this book is also very helpful for anyone that's going to be close to transition to read.

Right.

Or anyone who's lost somebody,

Because that's that's what for me now,

Like having read that book,

Having just had that idea so solidified into my mind really helped me,

Has has helped me and continues to help me cope during this time.

What you I actually have my boyfriend's grandfather passed away like two weeks after my father passed away.

And I wasn't in the room,

But he was and a bunch of their family was.

And before he died,

Like the last hour,

He kept naming and talking to people that he could see people who in his life who had passed on,

Like his mother,

His father,

As if they were there in the room.

And then right before he passed,

He attempted to get out of his bed,

His like his hospice deathbed.

And they all stopped and they put their hands on their like,

What are you doing?

You know,

Dad,

Grandpa,

You can't get up right now.

And he said,

My mother is here to take me.

And he had his arms stretched out.

And then they,

You know,

They stopped him from getting up because he wasn't able to stand.

And he laid back down.

And within 30 seconds,

He passed on.

Oh,

I have heard stories like that.

I had a dear friend who had her husband die a couple of years ago,

Very aware man who did the prophets conferences and everything.

And he as he was getting ready to pass on,

He raised his hands up and down a few times and he actually called upon he could actually see a vessel coming and he was calling them in.

He actually called the name and said that they're here.

I'm ready,

You know.

And so it's a lovely thing.

And I want to bless you for the fact that you said it was helpful for you,

Because I think before you you called,

I mentioned to Dee that there is sometimes this loss and the grieving that happens is OK.

And it's hard to accept that it's OK,

Even though it's a celebration of Wayne's returning home,

There still is the grieving process.

So it's a combination of of the grief,

But also the joy that someone is is still there with you in spirit.

But for you,

You know,

And for Dee being so close with such an amazing,

Loving man and you were so close with him and talked to him almost every day,

I think,

Didn't you?

Who,

Dee or me?

No,

You,

Sage.

Oh,

Me?

Yeah,

No.

Yeah.

And I almost every day and I just got back from a trip with traveling with him for a month and then before that a month and every day our rooms connected in the hotels in Australia and most of them.

And,

You know,

So no,

I was very close to my father.

And my father was hard not it was hard not to just like be in love with him.

Yeah.

We love being around him.

He was such an addicting personality.

Just his mood was addictive is what I should say.

Like if he was in a good mood,

You couldn't help but be in a good mood around him.

And Dee this summer,

Like how I was staying with Sailor every morning,

She was she was there with her baby Shiloh,

Who's just two months older than Sailor.

So that's Sage and I had our babies all summer.

Yeah.

We could have photo sessions.

They're beautiful,

Beautiful babies.

So how do you make this change in your lives now of not having the physical body there that talks to you and his voice still comes to my mind sometimes.

And of course,

I have it on the CD and I'm sure both of you hear his voice.

His voice was so distinctive and powerful.

So how do you make that connection now in spirit so others can learn also how they can?

Because they're still there in spirit.

Their presence is there.

And Dee told a beautiful story about bubble baths and how she connected there.

But I'm sure you've had things,

Too.

So how do you open yourself up to his presence and his spirit while his body's not here?

Yeah,

So I've had I've definitely had a lot of signs from him.

I mean,

Like without a doubt signs,

You know,

Just one,

For instance,

Quickly,

I decided to reread I Can See Clearly Now because,

You know,

Just I just wanted to.

It was the first book.

I want to read all of his books again.

And you should tell them about them again,

Some of them for the first time.

But that's the one I decided to start with.

This is more of a memoir.

Yes.

And so I picked up the book and I put it in my bed and I had had the TV on just as like background noise.

I wasn't watching it.

And as soon as I got into bed and I put the book back in my hand and I picked up the remote to turn off the TV,

I can see clearly now the song started playing on the TV right as I was about to turn it off and start the book.

And I was just like really taken back at that moment.

Because like what a coincidence.

It was a movie.

The credits started to roll.

Wow.

And then another time I was sitting in the park and I had taken out my planner,

My school planner,

I babysit.

So I was babysitting this little boy and I was watching him at the park.

I took out my planner to write some homework down and I wrote it down.

I put my pen down.

I just was looking up.

So I had to put it out.

And all of a sudden,

A big gust of wind came out of nowhere and sort of blowing the pages all around.

And I was so blown by pages of my planner all around.

I looked back down at it after the wind stopped and it stopped on a page from like a few months ago where I had put a sticky note from my dad that I didn't even know was in there.

And it said like,

You know,

Just a nice note from him.

It said something about like,

You glowed from your I am place on stage.

Yeah.

I love you infinitely.

Love,

Dad.

And it was and I have a hundred.

I have like ten sticky notes in that book in my planner,

But it landed on that page.

And I felt like that was him saying,

You know,

I'm here.

I'm still here.

I want people to be aware because I think this is actually a sign because whenever a spirit comes,

I sense it as a wind or if there's a passing of a person or if someone's visiting after they passed.

I always sense it as a breeze or wind that is that is that spirit.

I've seen it many times.

One time a friend of mine died and I was there just I missed the death.

But I was there a few moments afterwards and this breeze,

Same thing.

This wind came up in the room and and that energy of that presence was in the wind.

So I do believe that the wind speaks with the spirit.

Because just yesterday,

Marcus was saying Wayne wind,

Wayne wind.

Wow.

Wow.

Mrs.

Marcus is going to be one.

I mean,

Boy,

What a future he's got.

He's such an enlightened soul.

Do you feel I have to ask you,

Don't you?

Do you feel a big responsibility having these beautiful souls that are so powerfully tuned into heaven and spirit?

Well,

I think any mother feels a responsibility to be the best mother that they can be.

And but I feel there's my role is to constantly just encourage and and leave the judgmental doors,

You know,

Just be open and just let my children be who they are and encourage that.

And like I said before,

If he waves at something,

I'm not going to say that's not there.

I say,

Oh,

Hello.

And just just keep encouraging it.

And I want them to constantly grow with who they are and not who society thinks they should be.

So it sounds really a lot like our children are our teachers.

And I think that's how Wayne treated you as well.

In a way,

Wayne was learning from you like he learned and encouraged you in that story about the bumps going away.

I mean,

He was open to understanding that you were a teacher at that point.

Yeah,

Both my parents always practice noninterference,

Which is as someone who's been around Eve,

Who's when she's mothering her children,

She definitely practices noninterference.

I can just I can attest to that.

She lets her children be who they are.

And it's so it's so amazing to watch.

It really is.

It's inspiring because I'm not a mother yet.

And I think like that's how I want to be,

You know,

Not always telling them be careful or,

You know,

That's not true.

You can't have a green orange.

You know what I mean?

Just letting them say the things they say,

Because that's the way they they they are people right now,

Even though they don't think the way we do yet.

They're still fully formed people.

And for them,

That's their reality.

And that's definitely how my parents were always noninterference and letting us explore things we wanted to explore and use our imaginations and not telling us no when we sounded crazy type of thing.

Yeah,

Your dad's parenting advice when I would ask him was what what his mother said to him was guide and step aside.

I love that.

So simple.

Guide and step aside.

Well,

I think this is so so great because I believe there are more and more advanced souls coming in in the cycle of evolution.

And I think some may have even waited till there were more enlightened parents like Dean and and others in Serena.

So these enlightened souls could come in.

And and it's just beautiful that we can have these children as our teachers and at the same time learn how to be more aware and enlightened ourselves because they're teaching us to grow as well.

We have to.

I've learned so much just from being Marcus's mother more than I ever imagined I would.

I think that I think every parent should get memories of heaven.

I really do.

I think every parent,

Every grandparent should get memories of heaven because it's going to open your eyes and your heart.

Because there's so many beautiful,

Touching,

Touching stories in here that will just blow you away.

And for me,

The other thing it did for me,

Besides,

You know,

Making this idea of heaven seem so real,

It made me look at children differently because,

You know,

Instead of just seeing them as half formed adults,

You know,

You start to see them as these beings with this soul that's so fresh and so like pure and you just want to be around.

I mean,

I love fresh.

I've always wanted to be around them,

But it made me want to be around them even more.

I think of them as little aliens.

Aliens come to Earth,

But,

You know,

They're from other planets.

They're coming in and they're so clear in there,

You know,

And I sometimes have visions of aliens kind of like young babies,

You know,

That pure spirit,

That loving spirit,

You know,

That are fresh and loving and not tainted yet by cynicism and hate and other things.

So,

I mean,

It's a beautiful,

Beautiful gift to have.

And I know you felt that,

Sage,

And I do.

And I want to thank you,

Dee.

How wonderful that you were able to create this beautiful,

Lasting gift for so many people and have that experience of Wayne's Energy speaking with you through this book together and you able to tell your story,

Which is just heavenly.

It's just heavenly.

It's just beautiful.

It's a lovely,

Lovely book and people can get it on Amazon.

And,

You know,

It's interesting.

I do like books still,

Too,

And there are books available.

You can get the book or the Kindle and there will be some book tours coming up as well.

And so you'll have a chance to talk to Dee.

Maybe I hear she's going to come out and visit you soon.

Right.

I hope so.

Yeah,

We've been talking about it.

I hope it happens soon.

I just moved today.

That's what I've been doing all day.

But I have a bigger space now.

So,

Dee,

You can fit better.

Yay.

That's great.

Well,

Yeah.

Well,

Thank you so much for taking the time to call,

Sage.

It's really a treat talking to you.

And I know your father's so proud of you and what you're doing.

And it's just beautiful to watch.

And I thank the whole family for really being so open and sharing their experience with so many people.

And you,

Too,

Dee,

Today talking about your experience,

Because so many people felt like Wayne was their father,

Too.

Their teacher,

Their father and loved him and adored him.

So it's been a learning experience that everyone's joined in together as they shared their love of Wayne and what he gave to us all.

Well,

Thanks for having me.

Thank you.

And a big aloha.

Stop by the station next time you come into town,

OK?

I will.

Thank you for inviting me on.

That was fun.

Thank you.

Love you,

Sage.

Love you,

Sage.

And thank you,

Dee.

Aloha to all.

Thanks for listening.

Talk story and talk to you next week.

Aloha.

Bye bye.

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