Writing Yourself Permission Slips With Shoshanna Raven
In this episode of the And The Net Appeared podcast Chelsey is joined by Shoshanna Raven, a business and empowerment coach for heart-centered women stepping into leadership and growing community around their work. We chat about how a business can be a vehicle for personal growth, showing up with your true colors, authentic leadership, sharing our vulnerabilities, the stigma of living with herpes / HSV1, choosing how & when to disclose that to others, and so much more! Published Nov 3, 2020
Transcript
And that's really what birth living brave was realizing that we're all living with this shame.
And anyone who's a Brene Brown fan out there knows that shame is the most debilitating thing ever.
And we all act to protect ourselves from shame,
Thinking that we're avoiding,
Right,
Feeling more shame.
And really it's a function of shame.
So when you can break through that and say,
Oh my gosh,
My shame is a source of my power.
And in fact,
That's actually the easiest thing I can do is be in full integrity.
And that's the most magnetic thing I can do.
Like,
Where's this place that I'm afraid to go to?
Go there and see what happens and see how you're freed from the shackles of something that didn't even exist.
Welcome to the And The Net Appeared podcast.
I'm your host,
Chelsea Benzel,
Intuitive mentor for thought leaders,
Coaches and content creators.
In this podcast,
You'll hear from badass humans who have taken big leaps of faith and the net appeared.
Enjoy.
Hello,
I am here today with Shoshana Raven,
Business and empowerment coach for heart-centered women,
Stepping into leadership and growing community around their work.
Shoshana,
Welcome.
I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.
My gosh,
Chelsea,
Thank you for having me.
It's such a pleasure to connect with you.
I feel like we are on very similar paths with like the type of work that we're doing in the world.
And yeah,
It's just going to be really cool to dive into that and explore.
Yeah,
What you're up to.
Why don't you take a moment and tell us like what you are up to in the world.
I know we're going to get to your story.
You've got a very,
Very clear,
Like definitely took a big leap and the net has appeared for you.
But what are you up to in the world now?
Oh,
What am I up to in the world now?
So for the first time in maybe five or six years,
I have one job,
But inside of that one job,
I have multiple different jobs,
You know.
But I run my own business.
As you said,
I'm an empowerment and business coach.
I think like empowerment and business,
Having a baby is leadership.
So I'm really jazzed up about leadership.
I love working with heart centered entrepreneurs,
Starting businesses that empower others and really want to just make this world a better place.
I like looking at niche like in that lens of like,
OK,
People who want to change the world,
Not so much a demographic or a different type of certain industry.
So I love that so much.
What else?
I love the mountains.
I'm obsessed with my cat Stevie.
I just moved into my new place in Denver,
Which is super exciting.
We were just laughing before,
But like it's this really old 1910 house and I was just like sliding across the wood floor and was like,
I think I have like 10 splinters right now.
But that's what's going on in my world.
And yeah,
I'm super excited.
I love making new friends.
So if you're listening to this,
Like reach out to me.
I'm active on Instagram.
It's Shoshana underscore Raven.
I absolutely love just seeing what people are up to online.
I've met so many people over COVID.
I'm so grateful to have had the opportunity,
But I'm like,
Oh,
My God,
I made the best friendships and so cool to be here with you.
And I love that saying leap and then it will appear.
I feel like I've told a couple of people since I knew I was going to be on your show.
And that's really what's happened to me consecutively,
Not without hardship or challenges,
Of course.
So happy to dive into that.
But such a proponent of helping people just take that leap.
So thanks for having me.
I love it.
I love what you said about like people making the world a better place.
That's exactly it.
It's like helping the people who are helping the people is kind of the way I think about it.
And being that guide,
That inspiration,
That mirror really to like bounce,
Not even bounce ideas back from or with.
It's like have someone who can see you and hold space for you as you are stepping up online.
Because it's a lot sometimes to get super visible and vulnerable and put yourself in the spotlight online for the whole world to see.
And I know you do a lot of work around vulnerability.
Your podcast is called Living Brave.
Like I think that right there says so much.
And yeah,
Meeting people over COVID,
Like who would have thought that that's something you'd be able to say?
But it's true.
I think the online community has kind of expanded and deepened.
Like I've gotten to know people through the podcast and just like being more visible online and connecting with people.
So I'm grateful that you're one of those people and that,
Yeah,
And that we get to hang out on the podcast and create some content.
Yeah,
Beautiful.
Yeah,
What you were saying about vulnerability and just speaking up and putting yourself out there and visibility.
I just worked,
I just had a group program,
The Empowered Business Accelerator,
And there were 27 women in there,
All early stage female entrepreneurs.
And the hardest part,
And like anyone can learn strategy,
Anyone can teach strategy,
To be honest.
I think there are certain things that just work.
And then when you get into higher level programs and higher touch support,
It's very specific to you.
But in that early stage,
I feel like actually what moves the needle is when we can dive into that personal development,
Your business as your spiritual growth journey,
And realizing that it's usually not knowing what to do,
But actually doing it.
That's getting in the way of people following their dreams.
And it's learned and it's a practice and it's just like vulnerability,
Where you got to practice over and over and over again to the people that you trust and love most and then extend out from there.
And if you're having a hard time in your business,
It's such a reflection of your inner world,
Seeing where are we having a hard time really speaking our truth?
Where is there a lack of alignment or disalignment in my personal life if I'm experiencing that in my business?
So I think that it's such a wonderful space for looking at what's holding us back.
And really,
As I said,
Growing as a person,
As you grow in your business and your work and that old work-life balance is kind of outdated,
Right?
It's like a work-life mesh.
How can they support one another?
How can they fuel one another positively and eliminate all that burnout and all that lack of alignment and working for the weekend stuff?
I'm super passionate about the future of work in that regard.
Yeah.
And I just so fully agree with everything you just said about your business being.
.
.
It's such a vehicle for growth and especially in a leadership role,
Like a leadership-based business.
I can't really speak to if you're selling a product or if you've got some other kind of business that's not like,
Okay,
You're a coach,
You're a thought leader,
A content creator.
That type of avenue.
But when you're doing that sort of thing and you're putting yourself out there,
Your business is you and what you grow from,
What you go through,
What you have to share with the world based on whatever you've got going on in your inner world.
That's where all the beauty is.
And it's not always easy,
But it's so rewarding.
It's like we get to go through all this stuff,
All the challenges,
All the whatever that comes up as we get visible,
As we grow our business.
It doesn't always seem like it at the time,
But looking back,
All of my challenges I see as blessings.
Oh,
Yeah.
I mean,
The easiest thing to do is to collapse the distance between who you are and how you show up.
It seems like the hardest thing because it's acting out of everything that you've been taught about how to be,
How to be liked,
Wearing these masks as we walk through the world.
And that's actually a really hard act to follow up with every single day,
Not really being in your true colors.
So I'd say the most freeing thing you can do and the best thing you can do for your relationships,
For your business is to really just be in your truth.
And I think that so many of us.
.
.
I love talking about shame.
I got into coaching talking about shame.
And I know we said we could touch on or probably would touch on just I speak openly about herpes.
I speak openly about bringing shame around sexuality,
Around who you are.
That's really what Birth Living Brave was realizing that we're all living with this shame.
And anyone who's a Brene Brown fan out there knows that shame is the most debilitating thing ever.
And we all act to protect ourselves from shame,
Thinking that we're avoiding feeling more shame.
And really,
It's a function of shame.
So when you can break through that and say,
Oh,
My gosh,
My shame is a source of my power.
And in fact,
That's actually the easiest thing I can do is be in full integrity.
And that's the most magnetic thing I can do.
Like,
Where's this place that I'm afraid to go to?
Go there,
See what happens and see how you're freed from the shackles of something that didn't even exist.
Yeah.
Oh,
There's so much there.
It's like,
That makes me think of how it's so easy to be,
To want to be liked,
Like to want to be accepted.
That's human nature.
But we show up as often this cookie cutter version of ourselves to be liked this,
Like,
How can I fit in and be like everyone else?
Like,
God forbid they see what actually is this deep,
Dark secret that I'm holding on to.
But really,
When you can shine a light on that,
It just opens up so much and you can let go of all of that,
That burden,
That heaviness and just be who you are.
And I think often when we step into that,
Not only is it liberating for us,
People get to actually see who we are and people get to decide and feel us.
Like,
It's not even a decision.
OK,
Do I like this person more or not?
It's like,
Wow,
They're letting me see the real them.
And like you said,
That's magnetic.
It's actually the most freeing thing you can do for anyone is to be true to yourself and be vulnerable.
It's an empowering invitation.
And that's really the narrative shift that I take on in business and in leadership coaching.
It's like there's this old model of being an aspirational brand,
Of pretending to have like secrets that are reserved for clients.
There's an element of when you're reading someone's content like that,
You're like,
Oh,
My gosh,
Should I sign up with them?
I'll do it sometimes.
I'm like,
OK,
They have this system and a strategy that I don't know about.
And there's another type of this invitation to rise where you're like,
Oh,
My gosh,
I am so on board with this coach or healer or guide or whatever they're selling.
I'm so on board with it,
Like I feel empowered and I want to get on board because I know that this person or this community,
Even better,
This community is something that's going to positively impact me and help me unlock what's already within me.
And that's really how I see vulnerable leadership or authentic leadership connected to that second strategy,
Because what you're doing is you're empowering people.
It's not about you sharing your inspirational story.
It's about you saying,
It's OK,
I see you.
And it becomes something that's not like,
Oh,
That's awesome.
So it's like,
No,
No,
No.
Like this story about me getting herpes in Nepal and having one of four fever and nerve pain down my legs and then telling every guy that I've met over the past three years that I had a highly stigmatized STI.
And like,
This is not like,
Whoa,
Oh,
My God,
You're so brave.
This is like,
Look what happens.
It's tying in the bigger themes and the bigger narrative.
And you could call that a brand.
It's like,
Look what happens when you lead with who you're really hard.
Actually,
The world will not reject you.
Actually,
You're the one that's undervaluing yourself.
You're the one that's underestimating other people,
Because actually all these other people want to support the hell out of you.
If people are rejecting you and making group chats about you,
You'll probably never know.
Most people are just clicking on by because they're so bored on social media because it's 2021.
No one has time,
And some people are going to hang on to every word that you say and you could change their life.
And so I think it's a service to ourselves,
Sure,
But it's also a service to the world.
And that's why I stand for authentic leadership,
Right?
Because everyone's got a story and you're just inviting someone else to realize that,
Well,
My pain,
My shame,
My story is a source of my power.
And me sharing that with the world,
It's not really about me anymore,
Whether I'm going to be received or not.
It's going to be good for my business or not.
It's actually because it's going to serve my community and the people who need to hear it most.
And I feel like that's the most motivating thing for people.
Because you can.
.
.
I'll stop on my rant,
But you can reach all of the income targets,
Right?
And if there's no fulfillment behind that,
Then it's empty.
And that's why the biggest cliche is like the billionaire who quits his job and becomes a rollerblader,
Because people just want to be in community.
They want to help people.
And so really just coming back to your values,
I think vulnerability and authentic leadership for any business owner is so,
So important.
Mm-hmm.
That's so beautiful what you said,
That it's not about,
OK,
We share this vulnerable thing about ourselves and that's the end of the story.
It's the,
Like anything we do,
The why we do it.
And it's to lead the way for others,
To show them that,
Hey,
Like,
You know,
Especially something as stigmatized as herpes,
Like,
Let's go there.
It's something that so many people live in shame about.
And this is just something I've started opening up about recently.
I actually have herpes.
I love you so much.
It's out there now,
You know,
Like I've gotten to the point where I can own that.
And I've sat with the the reality of like,
I just said that on my podcast.
The whole world knows now,
Like gone through the process of,
Oh,
My God,
What is that going to mean for me to if you're listening to this and you have herpes and you've never told a soul aside from maybe your romantic,
Your sexual partners.
And you're sitting there and you've been carrying this shame.
It's like,
I want you to know that A,
You're not alone,
But B,
Not only are you not alone,
Like I'm not going to stand for keeping this in the shadows anymore.
Because what good does that do anyone for us to carry that around and to keep it under wraps and this like fearful thing?
Like when you said that bit,
I don't know if I'll get it word for word,
But it's like go to that thing that you're afraid.
They go to that place you're afraid to go.
I can't remember exactly what you said,
But that's it.
Like if you'd asked me that,
Oh,
Like,
I don't know,
Years ago.
So it's been like nine years that I've had it now.
That would have been the first thing that comes to mind because it's just been this thing that I've been carrying and like,
Oh,
My God,
If people found this out,
What are they going to think?
So think of all that energy that that takes up.
It's like,
Let's rise above that.
Let's let go of the shame.
Let's like be who we really are.
And so I've just reached this point where I'm like,
OK,
Well,
I'm going to just start opening up about this.
Letting go of the shame myself gives you permission to do it.
And I know that's been a big part of your story.
It's funny,
Actually,
Just to give some background on like how I found your it was your Instagram profile that I stumbled upon.
So when I first started my business like six years ago,
I had a business coach and she was like psychic,
Very highly intuitive.
And she would do readings for me on every call we had.
She'd like tune in and she knew my whole story.
Like I wrote it out,
Wrote her this novel once and everything that I've been through.
And she said to me,
You know,
When you open up about this and you share that you've got herpes is when your business is going to take off.
And I was like,
OK,
Well,
I'm not doing it for that reason.
Like but it felt like this prophecy,
This thing that she had told me that almost needed to happen.
And I for the life of me don't even know how I ended up on your Instagram,
Shoshana.
But I got there and I saw that you'd written an article on Elephant Journal.
You were fully public about living with HSV,
Which if you're not familiar,
Is herpes simplex virus.
And I was like,
You're living that prophecy because you shared that.
And it sounds like that just opened up so much for you with connecting with your audience and growing your business.
Can you tell us a bit about that?
Oh,
My gosh.
Yeah.
When you were talking about giving like anyone who's listening,
You're not alone.
And in fact,
Like there's a whole community of people who want to cheer you on and who will love you even more because you're a human being with a multidimensional story.
And that's so beautiful.
That goes for anyone.
Like I've had people reach out to me after I launched my podcast,
Living Brave,
That were like,
Oh,
My God,
I loved your episode.
I cried.
And I've never told anyone that I'm adopted or all of these different stories.
And it wasn't just women with HSV who look like me and who have the same type of interest as me.
It's really a universal thing.
And that's why I think it's so powerful.
And thank you,
Like Brené Brown,
Mainstream talking about vulnerability and the power of vulnerability.
I think,
Yeah,
We're giving other people permission slips.
I was telling my partner,
Miles,
It's like basically what I do a lot of the day through coaching is like I literally write people permission slips.
And of course,
There's more that goes into it.
But we were talking about the mindset stuff before and just like being in that container and the other way strategy.
A lot of it's writing permission slips.
And sometimes you've got to be the first one to write your own permission slip.
I think when it comes to herpes,
We're even to begin.
No one gave me that permission slip.
But I will say that nothing is completely new.
I think a lot of people in the online space feel like I have nothing new to say.
Oh,
My gosh,
She's already doing it.
Guess what?
There's room for everyone.
No one's going to say in the way that you're going to say it.
Right.
And also,
You don't have to reinvent the wheel because there are universal truths.
You might be uncovering them and saying them in a way that unlocks something within someone else.
So when I was in Nepal,
One of four fevers and nerve pain down my legs trying to figure out what the fuck was wrong with me.
And all I'd seen in sex ed was like grotesque pictures of genitals.
And they're like,
This is what herpes is.
Don't have sex.
And a lot of people had abstinence only sex education.
So,
Of course,
You have your scares in college,
Whatever it was.
And but I just that wasn't on my radar.
Right.
So when I was super,
Super sick,
Because the first outbreak is the worst,
I've only had one outbreak.
The first one I was on,
Like suppressive medicine for a while and then realized I didn't need it.
Some people get it more frequently.
It's really,
Really different.
Honestly,
Any women out there getting like a UTI or bacterial infection is like way worse.
And so anyway,
I'm definitely not a health expert on it,
But I will say that that happened.
And I watched a video,
A TED talk,
And her name was Ella Dawson.
It was called STIs aren't a consequence or inevitability.
And she was so fucking powerful.
She was about my age.
She grew up in the same Connecticut.
And she was like,
You know,
She was living in shame and started telling everyone and their moms about herpes.
She's like,
I was at a party and telling guys in line.
And then I met my boyfriend through this.
And I remember I was crying and I was in shame.
But I thought,
Holy shit,
I want to be like her one day.
That's never going to happen.
Right.
And then I went home.
I was like completely clean eating for a while.
I took I was supposed to hike the Annapurna circuit,
Cut that trip short,
Went right home,
Felt bad for myself,
Moved to Denver,
Kind of had started overcoming it,
Started disclosing it,
Got my first relationship.
Of course,
It was totally cool of it and not,
Of course,
But I'll tell you,
I work with hundreds of women.
And I really once we talk about having an authentic disclosure,
I never hear horror stories.
It's really no one's going to reject you the way you think they will.
But anyway,
We can get into that later.
And let's see.
So I fell into kind of a low in Denver after I got out of that relationship and I started falling back into old like party habits and kind of numbing.
And I was teaching yoga,
But I was freelance writing.
I'd been freelancing for the past.
I've been doing it for the past five years.
I quit my big corporate job in New York City in 2015.
I no longer write business.
But I fell into that low and I realized that I had probably unhealed trauma and unresolved issues around herpes.
And I started talking about it little by little to people I loved,
To friends,
To Uber drivers,
To friends of friends.
And every single time I opened up about it,
You're like,
Oh,
My God,
You need to like someone.
I forget the first person was like,
You should start a podcast.
They're like,
Oh,
My gosh,
You should write about this.
Like my best friend or me.
And one out of five,
Because that's how how common general herpes is.
And HSV1,
Which is cold sores,
Which are also general herpes,
It's two and three.
So I just realized how someone lit up and felt like they could tell their story to me.
So it was through those one on one interactions of realizing that it was the most freeing thing.
It was the most empowering thing.
I'd play two truths and a lie.
And I'd be like,
I have a double uterus,
Which I do.
I have general herpes.
I'm like,
I have a brother.
It's like,
Yeah,
That's it.
And so it became this thing that was it was fun.
It was empowering.
I was no longer laughing at people making stupid herpes jokes and just being out of my own integrity and really standing for something which is important.
The last straw before I started the podcast was the Vulnerability Project,
Which is the name of episode one,
Which is the most listened to episode.
And I was like,
You know what,
To prepare for going public about this,
Which it still took me like a year and a half to do because,
You know,
Knowing what to do is one thing.
Actually doing it is the next.
But I told every guy that I had been with over the past and not been with,
Like slept with,
Just been out on a date with or had a crush on or made out with at a festival.
I don't know that I had herpes and I would call them if I could see them in person better,
Tell them face to face.
And I mean,
A handful of them tried to make out with me while I was telling them.
And more so these guys that I thought saw me as an object were actually like,
Oh,
My God,
How can I support you?
Like,
I love you.
And like saw me as a friend.
And I realized I was undervaluing myself.
And that's actually how I reconnected with my partner,
Miles,
Of almost two and a half,
Three years now,
Who,
As we know,
Doesn't have herpes.
But I called him because we had gone on a date.
I thought he was amazing.
We kind of stayed connected.
And I'm like,
Hey,
So I have this story and I'm going to practice saying this story.
And he was like,
Wow,
Because I was like,
I want to be public about it.
I think it could really help people.
He's like,
I want to help you with a website.
And we started dating.
And it's funny because now he's my web development guy and he does all my funnels and design.
So it ended up actually happening.
But long story short,
The podcast was really well received.
I lost my writing job,
Long time coming.
And I was like,
Shoot,
I want to do this coaching thing for a couple of years now.
And now it's time to dive in.
Now it's time to,
After a flop of a launch,
Which is a zero dollar launch,
Get support and grow this business and start talking openly about this.
And yeah,
Just being super open to that evolving over time.
And it really just freaking took off.
I mean,
It has been so much fun.
And I rarely talk about herpes so much,
But I think that was the catalyst of realizing that I'm not going online to be just another coach.
I'm going online to empower people with my words and to collaborate and to bridge the gap between who I am and how I'm showing up and let my work be a spiritual evolution and let it be for my heart completely,
Fully.
Which is hard.
And I don't,
You know,
I'm not perfect at it and I'm trying,
But that's a short,
Long story.
Oh,
Thank you for sharing all of that.
It's really cool to hear your experience and your journey through this.
And that's kind of where I'm coming from that,
That you said at the end about,
You know,
Being all of you in your heart,
You know,
It's that it's like letting go of any need to pretend that you're someone you're not just to try to be liked,
Accepted,
Successful,
Whatever.
It's just like,
How can we step into like coming from a place of just deep love for ourselves and for the people that we're here to serve?
Yeah.
And it's really cool to connect with you and to share so many similarities in this,
You know,
Because I feel you,
I feel all of this.
It's not easy.
And it's a continual practice to just like,
You know,
I have days where or phases where I just like,
You know,
Insecurities come up and I doubt myself.
And it's like,
It would be so much easier if I could just be that other person or act like this person and not have to deal with what makes me actually me.
But that's the beauty of who we each are and get to be in this lifetime.
Oh,
My gosh.
Yeah.
And that's the crazy thing is the things we're afraid of that,
Like people aren't going to like us are really the things that make people drawn to us.
Maybe we're not for everyone,
But we are for some people.
And that's great.
And that's how you build a business.
You don't need to have a hundred thousand followers.
Right.
I think that I get on the phone with clients who are like,
I just I just signed someone on for my mastermind.
I love her.
I've known her for a couple of years.
I've met her at one event.
She's like,
I just loved that you posted that Miles fired you the other day,
My partner.
And I was like,
This is one example where I'll get on the phone with someone.
They're like,
Oh,
My God,
I saw myself when you said you were looking back at old photos of you and saw a different person because you felt like you didn't even know who you were anymore or your identity crumbled that much.
I saw myself.
I saw you.
That's what makes you magnetic because it's real and it's rare and it's hard.
And that's why it's valuable,
Because if it was easy,
Everyone would be doing it.
But it's not taught and it's not encouraged that much besides what I'm encouraging right now.
And so are you.
I'd say that it's still hard,
Though.
Like example I can come up with is I said I just had this empowered business accelerator group.
This is more for early stage female entrepreneurs.
And the first night it was my largest group.
Right.
And the first module after the call was a 90 minute call.
I literally was like,
That was so bad.
Oh,
My God.
That's the end of my coaching career.
Literally,
I was like,
That was horrible.
I rewatched the whole thing.
And then I went and I went downstairs.
I was like,
Oh,
My God,
I ate some ice cream as comfort food.
And I just reached out to a couple of them like,
Hi,
I love you.
Thanks.
I had all of these worries of like,
Oh,
My God,
My clients don't like me.
And that was bad.
And it was like this old,
Deep story.
If I had just pretended it didn't happen and not vocalized it again,
Shame would have given it power.
But I was like,
Oh,
I see clearly what's going on here.
It's a limiting belief.
It's an old story.
It's not true.
So I'm going to let it out in the open.
So I even told them,
I was like,
Yeah,
You know how I say your business is your spiritual growth and personal growth.
Like I have this old story that I don't believe people like me.
That's an insecurity.
Sometimes it comes up.
It's come up in relationships.
It's made me gravitate when I was younger towards partners who are like,
Who also validated that belief.
And now it will sometimes come up even in my partnership of like,
Hey,
Do you love me?
It's like,
Yeah,
No shit.
But like that,
That happened in my business with my clients feeling like they don't like me.
They think what I'm saying is stupid.
And that is like being able to be vulnerable and say that instead of like,
Oh,
They're going to think I'm not legit or like I'm not perfect or I still have these thoughts.
So I'm a fraud.
No,
In fact,
Me embodying what I believe is being a leader and being authentic,
That actually requires me to go to my vulnerability edge.
Another limiting belief that comes up for business owners is also ridiculous,
Which comes up for me again and again.
And this is it.
Right.
I've reached all my clients.
There's no one else out there.
I've exhausted my audience.
All that shit.
I still feel that.
I'm like,
I wrote an article for Business Insider and it was like,
You know,
A six figure business in four months.
And I'm like,
Okay,
I reached multiple six figures in six months.
And I'm still like,
Okay,
I should be,
You know,
Okay,
What if there's no other person and this is enough for a year?
And I go down these mental pathways and I'm like,
That is the limiting belief of like,
This is it.
Right.
And I've heard when I heard my one of my mentors,
Tori Washington,
Talk about that.
She was like,
I have a six figure business.
And I had this limiting belief that this was it.
I'm like,
Oh,
My God,
I've had that.
So I just want to spread that like all of these little thought spirals are totally normal.
And if you can talk about them again,
Permission slip for someone else to realize,
Oh,
I don't have to be perfect to lead and start a business and just to live my life.
And that's not real.
And that's shame.
And it's holding me back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's so much there I want to talk about,
Like,
How we attract what we need to learn and grow from whether it's in our romantic relationships,
Or it's in our business.
And it's so powerful.
Like,
For example,
You heard your coach say that exact like voice that exact fear that you were having.
It was your coach.
Am I do I have that right?
Oh,
I just love her.
Her name is Tori Washington.
I've taken some of her courses.
She's a mentor.
Cool.
Had she not voiced that it could have so easily stayed something that was shameful for you or like you thought you were the only one who ever dealt with this sort of limiting belief or whatever.
But it's like,
Whether you're disclosing that you've got an SDI,
Or you're just showing up and talking about,
You know,
I feel a bit like an imposter,
Or I feel like that was a shitty training I just led or that I've exhausted my whole business,
Like whatever it is,
Whatever the fear is,
I'm sure that list could be endless,
I let it be.
But it's like just being open,
And just,
You know,
Stopping those thoughts spirals in their tracks,
And not letting them like ruin your day,
Ruin your outlook,
And like let you make it mean something.
It's like if you can catch that and be like,
Hey,
I'm feeling this like funky,
Weird,
I'm not enough-ness.
How can I shine the light on it so it doesn't stay in the shadow.
And then by doing that is where there's so much magic and there's so much freedom and lightness.
And then you can,
You know,
You let it go and you open up space for the stuff you actually want to come in.
Yeah,
So many more important things to be talking about too.
And that was one fear I had.
And I know that there are other women who have reached out who are like,
Oh my god,
I want to talk openly about herpes too,
But I don't want to be like,
Just the herpes girl.
And again,
That's,
That's actually just stigma that you're carrying with you.
And I could just do a whole podcast on stigma and breaking stigma,
But really,
It's not.
It's like I'm the herpes girl when I don't talk about it.
Right.
And what does that even mean?
We can go down the whole thing.
But when I'm like,
Yeah,
It's a really boring fact about my sexual health,
And I barely friggin talk about it,
Even when I work with empowerment coaching clients,
And we're specifically come to me to break shame and stigma around herpes,
We rarely talk about it.
Because it's really boring.
Once you get past it,
And you realize that it's actually about much deeper limiting beliefs,
And insecurities.
And yeah,
I want I,
I wrote that elephant journal article,
And I'm it said,
Why herpes was one of the best things that ever happened to me.
I remember someone reached out,
They were like,
When I first read that I was like,
Fuck this girl,
What the hell.
But really,
I work with clients who are like,
Josh,
I never thought that I would say this,
But I'm like,
Genuinely grateful,
Because it led me to this container,
It led me to realize all these things about myself that were actually holding me back for decades.
And it led me to this community,
I'm big on like connecting my clients and big on community led me to this community that I feel seen,
I feel like I have these amazing friendships,
I feel like we have this bond that I never would have had.
And thank God,
It's nothing life threatening.
And it's just this really actually boring fact about my sexual health,
Which is the punchline of jokes in the media.
Yeah,
I think so much of that shame that we carry is really just boils down to the stigma.
Because does it affect my day to day life?
No,
Does it affect like literally the only part of even my relationships that it's affected has been like having to communicate and have conversations,
You know,
And once that conversations done,
It either goes one of a few ways.
And,
You know,
It either is like,
Okay,
Cool.
Or,
Like,
Tell me more.
Let's explore that or no,
Thanks,
Not for me or me too.
Right?
You were talking about that in an episode that you talked about the same topic on your podcast.
It really is,
It's required me to step up and have those conversations.
Like there's so much that I've gained from it around courage.
But really,
Aside from the stigma,
The society's ideas,
And like all the stupid jokes out there.
That's what keeps us in this shame.
And so if I can play a part in dismantling that,
Of course,
I want to because it is it's boring as hell.
Like it's not it's not a thing.
It's not an issue.
But it's like we still can carry so much shame and so much insecurity around it.
It's amusing almost when you look at it through that lens,
Like what is going on with that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it is it's like you open up about it.
And yeah,
But that's such a minuscule part of your life and who you are.
And it's like you still get to be all of you.
You know,
All the things that light you up.
You know,
That did cross my mind.
If I'm going to disclose this and be open about it.
I don't really want to talk about it.
I don't even like how you offer business coaching and empowerment coaching separately.
Even that I still just want to talk about business and like getting your message into the world.
You know,
If this happens to be part of your message,
I'm happy to explore that and work with people around that.
But yeah,
It's interesting.
Totally.
Yeah.
Well,
Like they are one in the same too,
Right?
Like when I started with just working with one on one clients and some empowerment coaching,
Like,
Okay,
Let's work on you really claiming your power.
And like I said,
We rarely even talk about herpes.
We get over the stigma.
We talk about disclosure.
And we're just diving into like,
You know,
My clients are getting raises.
My clients are dating like a badass.
My clients are like speaking their truth for the first time,
Writing their stories.
Six of them joined my empowered business accelerator.
It's like a seamless transition from owning who you are to starting a business.
And then you have to do empowerment work when you're doing a business.
So yeah,
I think that and at the same time,
Sometimes I feel you just got to go with what lights you up.
Like sometimes I'm like,
Yeah,
Maybe it makes more sense to talk about herpes only and stigma,
But I just want to talk about leadership right now.
And that makes sense.
Like,
You know,
And that's what's going to be most magnetic in my messaging.
So you really got to listen to what makes me excited to talk about not like,
No one's talking about this.
This is probably going to land.
This is going to work because then you just dilute your message and there's not that passion you can see in someone's eyes when they pop on story or whatever,
Whatever your platform is.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah,
Absolutely.
I think that's almost a kind of an outdated business advice now is to like niche down and be super specific and just talk about the same thing and become known for this thing.
But it's like,
I've played with that in the early days of my business,
But it does bored me to tears because I don't want to talk about the same thing all the time.
I want to talk about what lights me up.
I just wrote a post this morning about that,
Actually,
That it's like just the mere fact that you have the desire to show up and either share your story on something or talk about something you've learned that excites you.
That desire,
That pull right there is the thing that you can trust to tell you like,
Okay,
This is what wants to come out of you right now.
And it's this,
It almost comes from that same thinking like that should mind.
Oh,
I should do this.
I should just be really specific in what I talk about and who I talk to and who my niche is and my ideal client,
Blah,
Blah,
Blah.
But that's that same type of thinking that keeps us stuck,
Like in all areas of life.
It's that same fear mind of like,
Okay,
Well,
I should probably just stay in the corporate job to begin with.
And like,
I probably shouldn't even venture out into doing anything that I ever want to do.
But it's like,
How well does that work?
Not very well.
Yeah.
Maybe.
Sorry,
Go ahead.
No,
I was just,
That's why so many multi passionate women are in starter limbo.
It's like,
I just have so many ideas.
And they've heard this and the niche thing.
And they're like,
Okay,
Well,
I don't really know,
Should I go this way or that way?
And they don't,
That's why I love talking about the difference between your brand and your mission statement and coming out your valleys,
What kind of leader you want to be and how offers stem out of that and how to build really intentional products around that and like the energetics and actually the strategy of that.
So anyone who's listening is like,
Oh my god,
I'm a multi passionate entrepreneur and I'm stuck in starter limbo or I have one offering or two offerings.
I don't get how they support one another.
I just did a training called Launch Like a Leader.
You could probably find it so shaunaraven.
Com slash launch like a leader.
Or if you find me on Instagram,
It might still be in my bio at this time,
But I really talk about this specifically and like dive into exactly what you just said,
Which I love what you said,
Chelsea,
About how that's like kind of an outdated,
Very boring,
Like I did not quit my nine to five to be like a mindset coach for 27 year old runners,
You know what I mean?
Like using this specific methodology,
Like no,
No,
No.
So I yeah,
That's a love,
Love,
Love that you said that.
I resonate with that.
27 year old runners.
That actually is the advice though.
It's like narrow down so specific so they know you're speaking to exactly them.
It's like I don't want to just talk to the 27 year old runners.
I want to talk to women who want to make a difference in the world.
However,
If you share that same core value as me,
We're going to click and I'm going to have something I can help you with.
And let's get you out there into the world.
Yeah.
And that's the importance of story,
Right?
Because you still need to make people feel seen.
And that's why I love working with clients on storytelling and messaging,
Because there is an element of being specific and putting all your stuff through the vanilla life coach and through the like leashes and all that.
And getting all that out and actually speaking directly to people.
But without that,
Like,
Niche,
Are you these like rhetorical questions that are like,
You know,
Really just repetitive and every other business coach is doing it too.
How do you weave in story?
And again,
Not just your personal story,
But how do you have a magnetic message and story that's detailed and colorful and makes people feel seen and really powerful calls to action.
So that's more important,
I believe,
Than the demographic and all of that,
Right?
Mm hmm.
And like your ideal clients favorite song and color shoes they're wearing right now.
I filled out so many of those questions.
I was just reflecting on that just the other day,
Actually,
Because I'm just stepping into owning like,
Yeah,
No,
That well and truly is outdated.
Like no part of me resonates with that.
But really,
No part of me ever resonated with that.
I just went along with what I should do to grow my coaching business.
Which was,
You know,
Nail down your ideal client avatar,
And like,
Put up a picture of what they look like and keep it near your computer.
And every time I would fill out one of those,
It was that same vibe of like,
I'm doing the thing I should do.
And I just kind of clicked recently that it's like,
Of course,
It never felt like something I wanted to do,
Because it was never aligned.
And so it's like,
That permission slip to just like,
Anything ever,
Even if it's something I say,
And you're my client,
And I've told you something,
If it doesn't resonate,
Then take it with a grain of salt and like,
Go do your own thing.
There's no one who like has the rulebook and has everything that you need to do.
It's like no part of you stepping up,
Especially as a leader,
Is owning your own inner guidance and acting on it.
Yeah,
You're the CEO.
Like,
When my clients ask me questions that are more like nitty gritty sometimes,
I'm like,
This is what I would do.
And also,
This is the best part about being your own boss,
Because you can be super creative.
And maybe I say,
Yeah,
Go the one on one route first.
And then maybe we'll like do this group.
And there's a very specific reason I say that.
But I'm also like,
If you're going to be the most fired up and excited,
You have this vision for this,
You know,
Six week program ever,
Like,
Hit the ground running with that.
Hell yeah,
There's many different ways to get there.
And I can support you in the way that's most unique to you.
I love just following up on that.
The last thing I'll say on the niche and just the old outdated like avatar down to the shoe color of your wearing,
Which is absolutely insane.
And I like feel like you actually did have to write that.
It's crazy.
Yeah,
It's,
I think it's important,
Right,
Knowing who we're talking to visualizing a specific person,
Maybe that we know that's in our network.
So we're not like,
I want to work with CEOs who are struggling in their marriage,
Like you don't know,
A CEO struggling in their marriage.
Okay,
All these things are really important business foundations.
But I like to add,
Like,
Well,
What,
Who is that person that you want to help so badly,
But you're afraid to?
Where's that part of your story that you're afraid to go to that you can weave into your offerings?
Are these questions that are going to help you get to your ideal client to your niche?
Yes,
Definitely.
I'm thinking about my client,
Nicole,
Who is an intuitive eating coach,
And she had been kind of struggling in her business from January to March,
She made $900 and was like going to school to be a licensed therapist.
And we had our first,
No,
We had our first one to one call.
She was in my accelerator program.
And we were talking about a niche and she was like,
You know,
I really want to also she had lost 140 pounds at age 17,
Or something like this.
And I'm like,
You need to talk about this on your platform.
I can't believe I don't know that yet.
So again,
Weaving in story.
And she was like,
I really want to help women with emotional eating,
Like,
But I'm kind of afraid to go there because it's such an intimate part of my story.
There's all this other stuff that was wrapped up in there.
And I said,
That is so exciting.
And when we were looking back on our work together,
And I was like,
What do you think has helped you?
She 10x her income,
Filled a group program on her first 10k month in a month.
I was like,
What do you think is the thing?
She's like,
Well,
The sales strategy and sales mindset and the whole framework.
Of course,
That's been big for my business as well.
And she's like,
Also that first call where you just told me that's so exciting.
And it like turned everything upside down.
And again,
That permission slip.
I was like,
That's where you need to go.
You should do that.
Let's do it.
Here's our game plan,
Action roadmap.
And that's exactly what allowed her to take off and really claim what she wanted to do.
And it wasn't through drawing a reclined avatar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Follow what lights you up,
What excites you and trust that there's a reason it lights you up.
It's safe to follow that guidance.
Yeah.
So speaking of all this stuff that like we should do,
We haven't even really touched on your story of leaping.
But I know you left a whole life of like living that should kind of lifestyle.
And now you're killing it in your own business.
Like what was that whole leap situation like for you?
Oh,
My gosh.
Well,
I went to UNC Chapel Hill.
I had transferred a few times in college.
It was my dream school.
I was really into how prestigious it was.
I grew up in kind of a bubble town in Connecticut and always was like,
You know,
Middle class.
But the people around me,
I was flying private jets to go see school with my friends' parents.
And I always thought like,
You know,
I want to prove that I can do that on my own.
Right.
I knew people who were like getting into schools through connections and getting jobs through connections.
And I was always like,
Really motivated.
I got a 4.
0 my freshman year.
I started really studying in high school at the end.
And I was like,
I don't know what I want to do,
But I know I'm good at math and science.
And I want to do econ and global studies.
And I want to get a really good job because I want to prove that I can do it.
Right.
And I kind of fell like many of us do into this autopilot life of,
You know,
You're your inner child and you're this goofy,
Really fun loving.
And I always had that,
But there was this element of the masks that we wear that were clouding again,
Not really going back to my values,
What's important to me.
Trying to fit in,
Feeling social anxiety for the first time in college.
And finally,
Senior year,
I got a job at KPMG.
I was flown out to multiple different banks in New York doing investment banking super days.
Didn't get any of those jobs,
But I was the only girl in a room full of 50 guys with a pink shirt on,
You know,
Getting asked like it's super days or like seven interviews in a row.
Like these men kicking their feet up on the table,
Giving me a brain teaser that I couldn't even start on.
So I went through that all.
I was kind of like,
Okay,
You know,
KPMG is okay.
I think the starting salary was like 60,
000 a year,
Which was like,
Is amazing as a 21 year old.
But I'm like,
Oh,
You know,
Just you're climbing the ladder,
Right?
You have this apartment that's barely big enough for four girls in midtown Manhattan.
And I'm working to live,
Living to work,
Working 60 hours plus a week,
Six days a week.
That said,
Not doing much.
You just have to show face.
I was like,
This is called a performance driven culture.
It's a corporate hierarchy and you're not like,
We have to be there at 830 for what?
So not my jam.
I was always like the one getting kicked out of class for laughing.
It was always the weird,
Crazy intern who was like getting in late and like,
You know,
All of that.
So of course,
Didn't go very smoothly.
I was like wearing my sneakers all day long,
Pretending like I was going to go on a walk,
Just like,
You know,
A dress,
Sneakers and the hair scrunchie.
Like,
What am I doing here?
Didn't really fit in the office.
Got addicted to Adderall,
Was having XL coffees on the way to work every day.
Was just having a hungover Sunday,
Going to Connecticut to see my parents and not even wanting to be in the city.
So I went and saw my sister in Costa Rica,
Saw that she was loving her life.
She was doing,
Working for a nonprofit,
Like really living her truth.
She's a biologist.
And I remember we got in a fight and I told her she didn't know what the real world was.
And that's when I realized I was full of shit.
That and I visited Colorado.
I took acid for the first time,
Which maybe had like delayed effects.
I read a book called Mindful Work by David Gells and it really brought to light like mindfulness.
And I've been doing yoga for years,
Not really knowing the true essence of it.
And I just decided to,
I lost,
Oh my gosh,
Such a long story,
But we'll try to shorten it.
I was obsessed with writing.
And so I started a blog called the Loopy Scoop and I launched a blog.
I like would watch videos of like how to start,
How to build a WordPress blog,
Blue Host.
Like I got so into it and I started writing blogs about like ice cream and life and personal development and entrepreneurship.
And I wrote why I quit my nine to five to travel the world and go to India for one of my tickets to India.
I got my yoga,
Put my deposit down for yoga teacher training in Goa.
And the outpour with that of so many people reaching out,
Like,
Thank you so much.
Like I loved reading that people hadn't talked to in a long time,
You know,
They're like acquaintances of high school.
And yeah,
So that leap,
You know,
Looking up at the big towers in Manhattan,
Anyone who's been there in midtown and on a lunch break feeling like I just can't fucking walk back in there.
Like it's,
It was physically impossible.
People have taken this leap.
Sometimes it's just like,
Hey,
Should I do this?
It was really scary.
And sometimes it's like,
I literally have to do this because I can't be in this office for another day.
There was a bully in the workplace.
As one girl was like kind of pushing me out,
Called HR on me about how I had outside employment because I was writing at that time.
I got a job with Investopedia,
Which has supported me before I started my own business for four years.
I was doing markets and business writing.
No one would know that they thought I was like this traveling yoga teacher that just talked about personal development.
I'm like,
Actually,
I've been like writing business and markets.
And so I traveled for years,
Did work trades,
Taught yoga and remote islands and South America and Central America and went to Asia and slept on rooftops and got me diver certification,
All that fun stuff.
And it's funny,
The places that I'm hosting retreats now are places that I would like teach at back then,
But it's been a crazy,
Crazy journey.
And I'd say that that transition from like the nine to five to freelance to having a cushion to starting your own business,
I really like to reflect that sometimes that piece is missing.
It looks like quit your job and you have a multiple success for your business.
And it's like,
Actually,
Sometimes I love Elizabeth Gilbert's book,
Big Magic.
She's like,
Don't ever put that pressure on your passion project.
So it was like a lot of years that I had side hustles and side gigs.
I was on Rover.
I was teaching yoga in the park,
Airbnb experience,
Like all kinds of shit.
And it was so fun.
So that's a short story of quitting.
I love it.
It is so important.
And I'm very passionate about,
Especially with this podcast,
Talking about how we create our net.
It's not like,
Yeah,
You take a leap,
You leave the job and there's like everything you need is waiting for you,
Offered to you on a silver platter.
It's like,
Yes,
Miracles do occur 100 percent.
And there's even energetic work we can get to get into alignment.
Like I had someone on the podcast,
I think episode two,
Nicole Mitchell,
She walked into a grocery store,
Was handed out an envelope of cash.
And there's been like synchronicities.
Like,
Yeah,
If you go back and listen to some of the early episodes,
We really talk about miracles.
But I think there's some,
It's like another brand of magic,
Maybe another flavor,
Where we actually intentionally create that net and those stepping stones.
It's the practical work that we do.
It is also very,
I'm a big advocate for the energetic work,
The inner work to align with where we're going to manifest it.
But it's like,
It requires action.
It's not like,
Go sit on your meditation cushion and just visualize the perfect life and you're going to open your eyes and you're living it.
It's like,
Even with that,
It's like,
Yeah,
You're going to go sit and meditate and then you're going to get this brilliant idea for a business or a course or someone to reach out to.
Or like I worked on a farm in Australia that then in the strange turn of events ended up leading me to a freelance marketing job that I did for a few years.
And it's like,
All I really did in that situation was followed my yes,
Followed that idea,
That thing that was calling me.
But I took the action,
You know?
So I think it really is important and it needs to be said that the net does appear.
Like you're 100% supported by the universe,
But you have to play your part.
Chelsea,
I love you.
And that is so spot on.
I have a whole episode.
I get riled up about this topic.
I episode of my podcast,
Living Brave,
Enough about abundance,
Enough about abundance part two.
And like something about the shame around being ordinary.
And a lot of it,
I tie back this like kind of harmful narrative and the spirituality world online about manifestation and like just write letters to money and everything's going to be okay kind of culture.
And it really overlooks not only privilege power dynamics,
But it overlooks exactly what you're talking about,
Which is there's a lot of action,
There's a lot of intention.
And there's that balance of faith and mindset and strategy and yeah,
All of it.
I think that it's so,
So important because there's shame that comes around with that.
I've worked with clients who have poured money into other business coaches or other programs that really overpromised.
And there wasn't a whole lot of substance to it.
It was really about just like manifest your dream life,
Take the leap.
And we were really unsupportive and really made these people feel like,
Okay,
Well,
I'm obviously doing something wrong.
So I'm not manifesting.
I'm writing all of these letters.
I'm doing the visualizations.
And so I totally believe in the laws of the universe and that really like,
You know,
Vision boarding.
I'm not going to hate on that totally,
But like,
I will say that I think there's a bit of toxicity in some spaces when it's overused and when it's in a silo of this is the only way.
It's the only way and it's all you need to do is just think happy thoughts.
Yeah.
I think the action feels better when you're doing that work,
The mindset work,
The action feels aligned.
It feels like,
Yes,
It doesn't feel like,
Oh,
What do I need to do to make this happen?
And you're just like in your mind and you're trying and you're struggling and you're forcing,
But it is.
It's like,
Since I've shifted a lot energetically over this past year,
It's like,
I love working on my business.
I love creating content.
I love all the things to do with the action that I take day to day.
Like I get excited to wake up and do this.
And I couldn't say that early on in my business.
It was kind of like a chore.
It was kind of like a lot of it was just like the pushing and the forcing and the struggling.
But when you get your head in the game,
Your energy in the game,
It's like,
Yeah,
You're still taking action,
Maybe taking more.
I probably work more now on my business now,
But it feels better than it ever has ever.
So that's really shown me right then and there that shift.
Yeah,
It gets to be fun.
Yeah,
It gets to be really fun.
Yeah.
And it's cool to see when the net does appear and you're like,
You're living it like you're doing it.
And yeah,
It's just been,
It's really cool to share your story and to showcase the work that you're doing in the world and sharing your energy with our listeners.
Thank you so much,
Shoshana.
Thank you for having me,
Chelsea.
I loved this conversation.
I can't wait to share it.
Me too.
So where can people find you on the Internet?
Yeah,
As I said,
Instagram is a good place.
Shoshana underscore Raven.
S-H-O-S-H-A-N-N-A underscore Raven,
Like the bird.
And I have a community called the Living Brave Community on Facebook.
So you can find that through my Instagram bio or you can just search Living Brave Community on Facebook.
And it's really a place to share your work,
To connect with other like-minded entrepreneurs who are interested in leadership and community growth and personal development.
And my podcast,
Living Brave,
Again,
It's on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts and all my different offerings and things like that on ShoshanaRaven.
Com.
A few different offerings,
As we talked about today.
So more than happy to have a conversation with you about that.
And just I always respond to direct messages.
I think sometimes people are like,
Oh,
My gosh,
I'm so happy you responded.
So I will respond.
I love hearing from you.
I'll probably send a voice memo back.
So I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah.
And we'll put all those in the show notes as well.
So it's easy to access.
Yeah.
Thank you,
Chelsea.
Yeah.
Thank you so much,
Shoshana.
It's been such a pleasure to have you on.
And thank you to everyone listening.
I trust that if you're here with us to the end,
That you have been vibing along with us just as much.
And thank you so much for being here,
For listening.
And I'll catch you on the next episode.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode,
Please subscribe to the podcast.
We'll be releasing a new episode each week,
So I'll catch you again on the next one.
