The Regenerative Journey | Ep 16 | Dr. Ron Ehrlich

Dr. Ron Ehrlich is far from a conventional dentist. After a 'normal' initial training in dentistry, Dr. Ron started to connect the dots between oral hygiene, the influence that diet had on the development of the body, overall human health, and the health of the soil in which that food was grown. Charlie explores with Ron his journey into his holistic approach to dental care and how regenerative agriculture plays a critical role in providing the quality of food necessary to promote good health.

Transcript

It's like with sleep,

You know,

People,

I said sleep is without a doubt the most important part of the day.

What is the first step to getting good nights,

A consistently good night's sleep?

Prioritising.

If you don't prioritise it,

All the rest,

I could talk to you for the next hour about sleep hygiene and all the different things you could do.

But if you don't prioritise it,

All the rest is a waste of time.

It's a bit like that with health too.

That was Dr Ron Ehrlich and you're listening to The Regenerative Journey.

We acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and internationally and their continuing connection to culture,

Community,

Land,

Sea and sky.

And we pay our respects to elders past,

Present and future.

G'day,

I'm your host,

Charlie Arnott.

And in this podcast series,

I'll be uncovering the world of regenerative agriculture,

Its people,

Practices and principles and empowering you to apply their learnings and experience to your business and life.

I'm an eighth generational Australian farmer who transitioned my family farm from industrial methods to holistic regenerative practices.

Join me as I dive deep into the regenerative journeys of other farmers,

Chefs,

Health practitioners and anyone else who's up for yarn and find out why and how they transition to a more regenerative way of life.

Welcome to The Regenerative Journey with Charlie Arnott.

G'day,

Welcome back to the show this week.

I'm very excited to have spoken with Dr Ron Ehrlich,

A holistic dentist and health advocate.

He's a podcaster.

His podcast is Unstressed and I did an interview with him.

I was interviewed by him by Dr Ron on Unstressed there late last year.

I can't remember what episode it was,

But I really enjoyed that one.

And we started conversing and I thought this bloke knows his stuff.

So I thought I'd better interview Ron there in Sydney in Bronte and he's in his home.

We talked about his life,

His growing up and what sort of got him into dentistry.

He's an author as well.

He's published a book,

A Life Less Stressed.

It's all about some health pillars and you know,

Really interesting and somewhat basic stuff we tend to sort of forget about,

But Ron's put it there in a wonderful publication.

His podcast,

He's been doing 35 years,

At least 35 years of clinical experience and he works from and he's the operator of the Sydney Health,

Holistic Health Centre,

I should say,

In Sydney.

Really enjoyed my chat with Ron there and just in his home there in Bronte and was just fascinating to understand why he got into dentistry and why his particular perspective on health and relating basically dental health and hygiene to our overall holistic human body health.

And there's so many connections there that I thought I knew a bit about it,

But Ron really opened up my eyes.

So Ron,

Thank you for the chat and listeners.

I trust you enjoy listening as much as I did speaking to Dr.

Ron Ehrlich.

Ron,

Dr.

Ron,

As you're fondly known,

Dr.

Ron Ehrlich,

We're here.

Welcome to the regenerative journey.

Thanks,

Charlie.

Terrific.

Thank you.

Welcome to your house.

We're in your house in beautiful Bronte,

Which I've had a little bit to do with or a fair bit to do with in the last 10 years of my life,

I guess.

We had a beautiful Bronte Road down there sometime.

Beautiful spot.

Tell us,

Ron.

So Ron,

I met Ron,

Well,

We just met at your front door,

Officially there half an hour ago,

But we have,

I was really honoured to be asked to be on Ron's podcast show Unstressed late last year.

And we have a mutual friend in Vicki Poulter.

We can get to Vicki a bit later on.

And I was fascinated with your story.

And the reason why we're having a chat is that you're a holistic dentist,

Which is not such a common sort of a name for a dentist to be holistic in the front of that word.

I usually associate it with holistic with farming,

Holistic farm management.

And so for that to be related to the dentistry is a fascinating thing,

Which we will get to.

But what I learned through speaking with you on your podcast was your and also the days and weeks of research I did on you was your interest in and contribution to health and wellness.

So that's why you're here.

If anyone's wondering,

Hang on,

Ron's not a farmer.

He'd like to be,

He'd like to be.

Well,

There he goes.

There you go.

I'm an aspirational farmer.

We all want to be farming.

I think that's something that most people would like to do.

I think so anyway.

So Ron,

That's why you're here.

Well,

Thanks for having me,

Charlie.

I was very looking forward to this,

Even though I only had 24 hours to look forward to it.

I did.

I did spring it on Dr.

Ron.

He's a very accommodating sort of rooster.

Ron,

Tell us where we are and why we're here and maybe the significance of what we're looking at for the viewers who are watching on YouTube,

You're looking at Ron's beautiful kitchen.

What we're looking at is a,

Is a,

I want to say inspiring view out there to the Pacific ocean.

Yeah,

Look,

You know,

I've lived in Bronte for 35 years,

Having grown up in Bondi and I had never come as far as Bronte.

I'd never actually visited until we moved in here 35 years ago.

And we just landed,

We lucked out.

I mean,

We really,

We were so lucky to be here.

Be here as in this.

In this suburb.

I mean,

It is just magnificent.

It's become incredibly trendy.

I don't think I could actually afford to live here myself if I haven't got here 35 years ago.

And that's a dentist speaking.

You haven't got a beard either.

So you've got a hip stay yet.

Well Charlie,

I'm looking at your beard and mine would be much grayer than yours,

But you wear it with,

You see,

You've got a bit of dark hair on top.

So kind of there's that paradox.

With me,

It would be unequivocal.

I put a,

I put a Grecian 2000 rinser in my head.

No,

You're so polite not to say anything.

I'm just on the beard thing though.

Beard season,

Just a bit of a plug for those guys.

Jimmy Niggles,

Beard season,

Raising funds for skin checks.

And so that's why I had a bit of a trim here and there.

Is that July?

It's not too late.

It's winter.

So it's beard season being June,

July,

August.

It used to be called winter.

It's now beard season.

So it's not too late,

Rowan.

Well,

Well,

I'll give it,

I'll certainly give it a go.

It usually doesn't take more than about three or four days to show up on me.

You're a werewolf like me.

I am,

I am,

I am.

But anyway,

Yeah,

I think I'll just stay with,

Well,

I'll give it a go.

You've inspired me,

Charlie.

You've inspired me.

But Bronte is just amazing and,

And we just love it.

And this kitchen is actually the nerve centre of the house.

It's where I spend a lot of my time.

I do all the cooking at home.

And in the last three months,

I've probably done more cooking in three months than I've done in the last 10 years.

Kind of reminded me of how often we go out for dinner and eat out.

And I just love it.

I'm just enjoying so much being in this kitchen.

So,

So,

You know,

Cooking's a great passion of mine too,

As is food,

As is health.

So they all tie in really nicely with each other.

And which we'll get to.

I did notice that Ron hadn't prepared any,

Any lunch for me when I got here,

But we will,

We'll get.

Well it's funny you should say that Charlie.

I've got a big pot of stock on.

I have.

I've got a 10 litre pot of stock bubbling away as we speak.

And I actually got some soup for you.

So you most,

You know,

If we,

If we go on for the full eight hours.

You're going to give Dennis a good name if you keep this up,

Ron.

Be careful.

Well,

I hope so.

I've been at it for a while.

Now let's talk about that.

And yeah,

Bronte is a beautiful part of the world,

Not just of Sydney,

But the world.

It is a,

It's a,

It's a special place.

So is it apart from,

You know,

Moving here and,

And,

And,

You know,

Being here for that long,

Is there any sort of significance?

Has it been a source of inspiration?

You've seen a lot of change.

What will give us a sense of why here and what we're looking at might be inspiring?

It may not be inspiring.

Oh no,

No,

No.

It's totally inspiring.

I mean,

Honestly I'm,

It's a,

It's a,

When I,

I,

Like I said,

I grew up in Bondi and I hung out at Bondi beach and we just never walked around here and you wouldn't drive down to Bronte unless you knew it was here.

And I remember arriving here and there were no cafes anywhere.

And there was a little cake shop down at the beach.

And when that shut down and a cafe opened,

We,

The locals as I now call myself after 35 years,

But we all looked at it and went,

Who on earth is going to come down here?

How will cafes or restaurants even survive?

And now there are at least 20 cafes within a kilometer of my house.

So it's changed incredibly,

But what is so beautiful about it,

And we're looking out at it and I'm look out and see the sunrise every day and it's always different.

And you really get a sense of the weather and the movement of the earth and,

And we are so close to the city and we're so close to Centennial Park and yet we could be miles away.

So it's a real,

It's a real gem.

And we watched the planes when they used to be flying,

Fly in,

But we didn't hear them.

They didn't fly overhead.

So it's just magnificent.

And you know,

I,

I mean yeah,

Very happy and very inspired by it.

Ron,

Let's talk about inspiration.

I mean,

The podcast is called The Regenerative Journey and my interviewees,

You know,

What,

What,

What I'm,

What I'm trying to dig for is I guess some lessons you've learned,

Some,

Some,

Some turning points in your life.

And,

And I guess opportunities for others,

For our listeners to,

To learn from you,

You know,

Learn from not just,

I guess,

Well,

You know,

You're,

You're the way you,

The way you approach things,

You know,

It might be a day to day thing and it could be,

You know,

Like a life philosophy.

It could be so,

So no pressure.

Okay.

So let's start,

Let's start,

Let's start with the meaning of life.

We'll just get knocked over first.

Is number 46,

Is that?

42 I think.

42,

Is that 42?

But you may have got the new version.

I figured,

I don't think it's changed the number 42.

So let's start with,

You know,

Where did it all start?

And not when I say,

Where did you all start?

You know,

You grew up in Bondi and what sort of,

What life were you leading?

You know,

You,

You,

You at some point decided to be a dentist,

But what was,

What was happening before that?

What led you to that point?

Look,

I was always interested in science and I was always into sport and I knew I was going to do something to do with science and the choices were medicine was one.

And I could have done that,

But I just didn't fancy the 60,

80 hour weeks and on call all the time.

And to be honest,

The life and death situations that you find yourself in,

I didn't feel I was emotionally able to cope.

So then the other science choices were,

You know,

There were other science choices.

I chose dentistry because it seemed like a good combination of biology,

Technology,

Psychology.

It gave me a lot of freedom to choose the times that I worked.

And it's been actually,

I've really been lucky because I've found what is ultimately an incredibly stressful job and very bad for your health as I've learned.

Not just my own experience,

But the US Department of Labor does a study every year on 950 worst jobs in the world.

And you can imagine the jobs they cover in 950 jobs and numbers one,

Two and three are dental nurse,

Dental hygienist and dentist.

So,

And they don't even factor in the stress aspect.

They just talk about,

And this is relevant in today's age,

Exposure to microbes,

Exposure to toxins,

Exposure to radiation and being seated.

So very objective measurements.

Very objective measures.

And they are,

They give each profession a score on those four or six criteria.

There are two others.

They don't factor stress into it,

But even without that dentistry comes up that,

But having said that,

I have been very happy doing it.

I've been really enjoying it.

And I,

And it surprised me.

It really surprised me very early on where it led me.

And I learned,

And I've been in practice now for 42 years.

I started at a very young age.

I was going to say,

You must have started when you were 10,

12 years old.

I had a very loyal following,

You know,

Imagine being seen by a 12 year old.

You're like doogie house of that doctor.

Yeah,

Pretty much.

Anyway,

No,

But I have been in practice for 42 years and I have to say it's been an incredible learning experience,

Which still continues because you know,

I mean the more you learn,

The more you realise you don't know.

And and that's a nice way to approach life,

I think.

Well,

That's a great awareness to have that I think does come with age and the sooner we can learn that the better.

You just touched on,

I want to get back to your journey,

But I,

I,

I,

I've forgotten my pen,

So I can't write it down.

I want to just touch on that.

You mentioned one of the things that drew you to dentistry was a psychology.

Yes.

Well,

You know,

You deal,

I mean,

I definitely wanted to deal with people.

I knew that.

And and I didn't want to be working in a laboratory doing science like that.

So I wanted to do something that was applied.

And I also,

I thought I also thought that if I wasn't going to do something to do with science,

I would have loved to have been a builder.

So,

You know,

I love building things.

I love watching things built being built and dentistry does a lot of building.

You know,

I get a lot of people who are builders or engineers and I say to them,

You would recognise many of my tools.

It's just,

They work on a much microscopic level and we spend our day building and rebuilding.

And that's kind of quite satisfying from that perspective.

So,

You know,

The psychology of dealing with people,

I mean,

Crikey,

You know,

I had a patient ring me up yesterday and you patients said,

Oh gee,

I hate going to the dentist.

And I said,

Well,

You know,

You're a member of the really big club.

And I think I may even be the president of that club because we always,

We all have our turn in the chair.

And in 42 years,

I can honestly say no one has come skipping into my surgery going,

Oh,

I just love the sound of the drill.

And I can't wait for that feeling of numbness and blah,

Blah,

Blah.

You know,

I mean,

Really they might come in for the gas.

They might.

And that's how I have my dentistry.

You know,

Why not be as comfortable as you can,

But,

But you know,

You're dealing with people in a very anxious state.

You're in very close quarters.

Like my nurse,

When I'm working 30 or 40 hours a week,

She sits as close to me as you are,

But there is a person's head in between the two of us.

So you don't get much more intense than that to start with.

And then you ask someone to open their mouth while they're trying to breathe and swallow.

And you're trying to do finicky work where the accuracy is recorded in terms of 10 to 20 microns.

So a hair is 20 microns and something that is more than 20 microns out,

Not a good,

Not a good thing for a dentist.

So we are so preoccupied with finicky things,

Working on people that are awake and anxious,

Trying to swallow and breathe and keep a calm disposition through it all.

It's quite,

It's quite the artisan profession,

Isn't it?

Like,

I guess there's clearly a lot to,

I mean,

You know,

Who,

Yeah,

Who loves going to the dentist,

But I mean,

It's just something that I've always thought of the chore and it probably won't change,

But it's a,

Yeah,

You absolutely the intimacy of it and,

And it's,

And,

And,

And I,

And I,

You know,

Responsibility,

You're dealing with someone's,

The,

The,

The tools I use to,

To nourish themselves at the end of the day.

Well,

I think if you,

If you enjoy eating,

Talking,

Smiling then,

You know,

The mouth's a pretty important part of that.

And you know,

Part of what I talk about is stress and I often refer to dental stress,

Which we can talk about later and people go,

What's dental stress?

And I go,

Look,

It's,

It's,

The reason I included is because I've been doing holistic dentistry for 40 years.

So I feel like I've got a reasonable handle on how the mouth connects to the rest of the body,

But it's also of interest to anybody with a mouth who is interested in their health,

But is never fully connected to.

And there are a lot of connections,

Which are surprising,

Still surprising to me to this day.

Let's I want to go back to the connections.

Cause it's one of the,

The,

You know,

Cause for those listeners going,

Oh,

You know,

You know,

That's not what it was.

I was wrong on the show.

It was not a farmer,

But you know,

The connections,

There are so many things that come back to,

You know,

Food and dentistry is one because again,

It's the tool that we use to do that.

And we,

You know,

We're going to talk about lots of the way or these threads,

You know,

And I interviewed Matt Moran this morning.

He's a chef.

And did I say that before?

Yes,

You did already.

And I,

And I,

Well,

You said it to me and I'm not on this,

But I mean,

Matt,

I,

I did his first ever chef's table at Aria where I went out to all these suppliers,

Sat in the kitchen with him and Peter Sullivan.

And it was a really great experience.

I'm a huge fan of Matt's.

That's well,

He is a chef and so he's,

He's part of the can,

He's connected to food because he turns it up to 11,

You know,

Farmers produce it.

We,

And he,

He,

He pranks it up and you're an eater,

You know,

We're all,

And of course you are.

Yeah,

Of course.

In the kitchen,

They got,

That's right.

The soup that I'm going to taste later on.

I'll give you the,

The,

The score on that one.

But I'm interested to know at what point,

So you had an interest in dentistry.

Was it something that you went from school straight into there?

And it was like,

No questions asked.

That's I,

I,

I know what I'm going to do.

Well,

There was a time when you made decisions about what you were going to do right there.

And then after high school and it was,

It was,

It was a career that you knew you were going to be on.

That's changed.

Of course.

Now people have several careers in their life and I've got a different career apart from my dentistry of podcasting and wellness programs.

So I kind of am,

I'm moving into a new phase in my life as well.

But I did know,

I mean,

I did go straight in.

18,

I went into uni,

Finished uni at 23,

Went off to England and worked for two years,

Met my wife,

Came back.

And of course,

If I hadn't started my own practice by the age of 25 or 26,

There was something seriously wrong with me.

You know,

Was that from an industry point of view or from a family point of view?

From a parent point of view.

You know,

My,

My parents were always encouraging me to get to the next level and then I could do what I wanted to do.

So I'm just now at that point where I'm doing what I want to do 42 years later.

But anyway,

That's what I did.

And,

And,

And I think one of the things that surprised me,

Cause I thought I was just going to be filling and doing fillings and crowns and reconstruction work and with standard dentistry work,

Which I do a lot of,

I still do a lot of,

But,

But I kind of describe a holistic dentist as a dentist with attitude.

And the attitude is that you recognise the person is,

Is a whole person,

Not just a mouth,

Not just a tooth.

And that person's got a digestive system of which the mouth is the first part of.

They've got a respiratory system of which the mouth is the first part of.

And,

And then it's the site of the two most common infections and,

And,

And anyway,

But the way I got into it was through chronic headaches,

Which was totally unexpected.

I started,

I had what I was doing on two patients very early on within my first year,

Made a big point of the fact that stuff that I had done had somehow overcome the headache that they had suffered from for the last five years.

And that surprised me.

And what I learned very quickly when I explored it was there was a whole area of dentistry called jaw joint dysfunction,

Where clenching and grinding of teeth results in head and neck pain and other structural problems.

So that kind of blew me away.

I just thought,

Wow,

Hang on.

You mean there's more to a person than just their teeth.

And this was a step between,

You know,

You run of the mill dentistry work,

Sort of operation into stepping out of that box into there's something there's more to this.

I guess I'm just drawing parallels with someone like a farmer who's doing conventional farming and whether it's just because that's the unity they did.

And that's the,

The,

The,

The,

The,

The life they'd had to that point and then going,

Oh,

Okay.

And seeing some connection,

You know,

Seeing some variation on the norm that they'd been indoctrinated with or there's a paradigm.

Well,

You know,

It's really interesting because a lot of my friends that I graduated with us are dentists and they haven't gone down this path.

And,

And I kind of think one of the reasons is that people love certainty in life.

They love answers that are very certain,

And that gives them comfort,

Gives them direction.

And it doesn't matter whether you're a farmer or a dentist.

That certainty is very appealing where you come up with somebody asks you a question and you know the answer and there's no question about that answer.

I know it.

And there's something very comforting about that.

I,

I,

And we just,

I was talking with my daughter who works with me on my podcast and my wellness program.

She asked me this question this morning,

What do I enjoy doing about what I do?

And it's about that uncertainty.

I actually enjoy it.

I actually find it stimulating.

And,

And as I said,

The more you learn,

The more you realize you don't know,

And that could be really unsettling on the one hand,

But it could be really empowering on the other.

And the,

The,

The actual exciting part is not the certainty,

But it's making the connections.

And when you realize how interconnected everything is,

And that's what led me into regenerative agriculture.

I mean,

Last year out of all of my podcasts,

I did 40 last year,

10 of them were on regenerative agriculture,

Of which you were one.

You know,

I spoke to Terry McOsker,

Tim Wright,

Charlie Massey,

You know,

These guys are Glenn Morris,

Karen Zirkler from Landcare,

Alan Savory.

Yeah.

Good one.

Good work.

Yeah.

And,

And my,

My actual,

I've been doing this particular series Unstress for the last two and a half years.

My second podcast was with Joel Salitan,

Episode two,

Joel Salitan.

And I just thought,

I mean,

He's a,

He's a legend,

He's a hero.

And he's so generous.

I mean,

You know,

You give him a,

I mean,

I ring him up,

I email him as a dentist and okay.

I spoke to him on my other podcast,

Which was,

I did years ago.

What was that called?

It was called the good doctors,

Healthcare unplugged.

And I Is it still around?

No,

It's not.

It's not.

You can,

You can.

You had to unplug it.

Well,

I had to unplug it,

But I did it with You're using too much foul language or was there sort of like,

I don't know,

Nudity.

Well it was interesting because I co-hosted it with a doctor who was fantastic.

Michelle Woolhouse.

She's a holistic GP and she was in,

She was in her forties.

I was just in my late fifties at the time.

She had two young kids.

I had two older kids.

She was a doctor.

I was a dentist.

And so it was a good combination.

But what I realised was I didn't really mind what I would say about things.

And she had to be very careful about what she said.

And so,

You know,

I learned a lot as you know,

This is podcasting,

Isn't it Charlie?

I mean,

It's pretty self-indulgent.

You get to ask people questions.

Very selfish.

And you,

They answer and I've learned so much.

But anyway,

So I stopped doing it with her and I just thought I'll do my own thing where I'm not restricted by what I say or think.

Just on that one,

We could just,

We're going so many different spots.

We're nowhere near where I thought we'd be,

Which is fine.

Just on that,

I mean,

Because it might be a bit premature in asking you this,

Because we haven't got to the crux of it yet,

But we're saying now,

You know,

You are outspoken.

You're,

You're not,

You know,

You're doing this,

Your,

Your vocation is here and you've stepped out of that and you're doing something that's very significant in that space or actually out of that space,

To be honest.

What,

You know,

Have you experienced pushback?

Have you sort of experienced people going,

Are you mad,

You know,

Stick to your trade or,

You know,

What,

What has been,

What's been your experience with that?

Yeah,

Look,

I've tried to avoid being confrontational and,

And,

And critical.

I I've kind of preferred to frame what I've come,

The conclusions I've come to as kind of,

Hey,

Isn't this interesting?

What do you think?

Rather than,

Can you think like that?

Yeah.

Well,

You've got to think like this.

Yeah.

You've got to think like that.

And I,

And I think that's part of what is incredibly disturbing about what's going on out there in our world is that people feel so compelled to convince other people that what they are doing is the way things should be done.

And I think that's a sad reflection on them because they must feel so uncertain about what it is they're doing that unless they get the rest of the world to do what they're doing,

They're not quite confident enough in their own thoughts or open enough to change.

So I've,

I haven't really been on the chopping block.

I've kind of moved away.

I've always tried to avoid confrontation.

I can be very confrontationalist,

But I've tried to avoid that.

I don't think it's one of my better traits.

And and so I just prefer to go,

Hey,

Isn't this interesting,

You know,

And wonder at it and share that wonder and enthusiasm for it.

And if other people decide that that's not what they want to think about,

I'm okay with that.

I kind of a long time ago probably about 20,

25 years ago,

Just decided that I would rather than be very political about things,

I put my own house or surgery in order and look after the people that allowed me to look after them,

Which is a hell of a privilege and just look after them and myself and those that are,

You know,

I can influence.

Interesting.

You say that because you've mentioned,

You said a couple of things here that resonated with me for many reasons,

But one is that you might be familiar with the work of Jordan B Peterson and yes,

Of course.

Yes.

So chaos and order,

He talks a lot about that.

And you mentioned about the uncertainty,

Uncertainty,

Uncertainty,

You know,

Chaos and order.

And those who are,

Have got a beef with something or someone,

You know,

They,

As you say,

They're like the certainty,

Like the order and when it goes into chaos,

It's,

Yeah,

They can't handle it.

And that's when,

You know,

People get mean and they say things and they tack and all that sort of stuff.

So that's,

That's interesting thing.

And also another one of his,

His,

His 12 habits rules for life,

He actually calls them rules and habits was,

Yeah,

Get your house on it.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's great advice.

I mean,

I think,

I mean,

Control what you can control and what you can't,

I mean,

You know,

Okay.

Observe and see how it all fits in.

I mean,

It is disturbing when you look around and see how polarised we have become,

But,

But,

But,

You know,

I think so I haven't really had that problem.

I've had different kind of attitude and approach to it.

I'm seeing so many,

I knew that would be,

And it's,

It's lovely to unwrap this now,

Ron,

Your language that is so in line with,

And I'm not surprising with regenerative farming type language.

And I know I'm keeping going back to that.

And I,

You know,

I am for a reason because,

You know,

You mentioned there about different words focusing on what you're,

What you're in control of.

You know,

That's one of the sort of the principles of,

You know,

Terry McCosker might've mentioned that to you,

You know,

It's one of the sort of,

Control what you can control.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Focus on what you're in control of.

Exactly.

And forget it,

Forget,

But just put aside,

Don't worry about the stuff you can't control.

So that's,

You know,

And these are some of the,

And we're getting to it,

You know,

These are some of the principles that,

That you are aware of and you are I guess utilising that are,

That are absolutely in parallel with what regenerative farmers are doing in terms of stepping outside the square,

You know,

Focusing on what they are in control of,

Understanding that we live,

You know,

In a farming situation with weather and climate,

Which is uncertain.

So adapting to that,

You would have been a good regenerative farmer,

Ron.

Well,

You know,

It's funny you should say that and thank you.

Cause I'm still,

You know,

Hopefully when I grow up,

I can see you in a pair of gummies.

Well,

When I grow up,

Maybe I will be,

You know,

But but you know,

Like I think it's interesting control what you can control.

And a lot of people feel they can't control the weather and they can't,

But Terry said something that's just,

Yeah,

Well he can do everything,

Anything,

But but Terry said something that was amazing to me.

And he said ruminant urine is a beautiful thing,

Ron.

I remember I listened to that one.

Yes.

And I said,

Gee,

Terry,

Go on,

Do tell me.

And he said,

Well,

It's got plant growth hormone and that stimulates plant growth,

But it also stimulates an organism in the soil called Pseudomonas syringae.

And I didn't get that right.

I had to ring him back afterwards to make sure I got that correct.

Pseudomonas syringae,

Which floats up into the atmosphere and sees rain.

So you might think you can't control the weather,

But you can help it along a little bit.

I mean,

I was just showing you that article that was in the Herald this morning where they had land clearing in northern New South Wales.

And on one side of the photo was nothing.

And on the other side was forest.

And you kind of think if it rains,

What's going to happen on both sides of that fence?

Well,

We know,

I mean,

Obviously the water is going to run off and take soil with it.

Soil's going,

The water's going to go in on the other side.

So I can't control the weather.

Well,

Yeah,

You can't,

But you can control what the weather does with your land.

Yes.

And also that's- To some degree.

No,

Totally.

And there's a couple of things in there.

I mean,

There's,

There's,

I mean,

Might be aware of a practice of,

Well,

Well,

Phenomenon of radionics,

You know,

And there's,

There's sort of,

It's about tapping into the frequencies of,

Of landscape and so on.

And there are some apparatus very crudely made that can tap into the,

The earth breathing.

I don't want to get too much into it.

This is the science of biodynamics.

This is,

It's,

It sort of sits beside biodynamics in a way.

Yeah.

It's a bit more mechanical.

It's,

It's,

And it deals a bit more with substance,

But also with,

With natural cycles and function.

The other one there that I was going to touch on,

I've forgotten about it because I was rabbiting on about the,

No,

No,

That's it.

No,

No,

The,

The rain.

So back to,

To the,

The Terry Coskerism of,

You know,

Focus on what you can control,

You know,

You know,

In this drought we've just been through and farmers are screaming out for rain and then it rains.

And what does it do?

The rain hits the ground,

It goes sideways,

Takes oil.

And they've been praying for this rain and they get five,

10,

20% of what land.

And you know,

What they,

What,

What generous farmers do.

And,

You know,

And I'm not making that definition to make anyone better or worse than anyone else.

It's just a different style,

A different approach.

If attitude is I can't control when it's going to rain,

But when it does,

I can control to some extent how I use that or utilise that rain falling on there,

Staying on the ground,

You know,

Being absorbed,

You know,

High organic matter,

Grow grass.

Yep.

Well,

Graham Reese is another good mate of mine and I spoke to him as well.

And Graham said something else that was incredible.

He said,

When it rains in a land that the soil's really baked on,

It can take 10 to 20 minutes or something for it to absorb an inch into the soil.

And in the process,

You lose a lot of water and a lot of soil.

Whereas in a really rich organic pasture or land,

It will absorb within 10 to 30 seconds.

It's a sponge.

I mean,

That's just,

Is that a no,

I mean,

Is that almost a no brainer?

Am I being naive here,

Charlie?

Like if a farmer heard that,

Why would you not explore?

I mean,

I was up in Northern New South Wales and I drove down a road with Tim Wright,

Name dropping here,

But these are heroes of mine.

No,

We love it because the more names we drop,

The more we can tag them in the interview.

Yes,

Thanks Hugh.

But we were driving down this road.

Hugh Jackman.

Oh yeah,

There you go.

Well,

You already said a long mask,

So we've got that one covered.

We're not going to say the President of the United States.

No,

We know.

But anyway,

We were driving down the road and this was in February or March last year,

The height of the drought.

And so this land is exposed to the same temperatures.

And on one side was barren wasteland and on others,

On the other side,

On Tim's side,

Was vegetation.

Yes,

It was dry.

It was dry.

It was brown,

But there was vegetation and trees and some grass there and that.

And you just kind of thought,

How can that neighbour look across the fence and go,

Tim,

How did you do that?

Or can he,

Or is it just that he goes,

No,

I'm so certain in what I'm doing,

I don't want to even think about what you're doing,

Tim?

Is that what happens?

Yeah,

You've just turned this interview right around.

Oh,

Sorry mate.

He's such a good interviewer.

He's got a little,

No,

Totally.

I totally agree.

I think there's a,

You know,

The fear of change.

And even when things are obvious and you look at stats and you see evidence as it were of these things,

You know,

Humans are good at justifying their current position or the current paradigm.

And I was the same.

It took me years to sort of change the way I did things.

And I was,

You know,

I wasn't exposed to as much of it as people generally are now,

Because there's a lot more of this different role of farming and business management.

But,

You know,

It's,

And as you were saying before,

You know,

One,

It's a mistake for one to bash someone over the head and say,

You got a bloody change your way and do this and look at this,

Just look at it.

You know,

So you just,

I've found that just dropping things on a table and walking away is the best way to do it.

And then,

And then it becomes,

You know,

If they have some ownership over the examination of and the,

And the,

And the absorption rumination of that idea,

Then,

Then they're much more likely to,

To run with it.

I want to sort of get back to your,

Your career on what are some examples of,

You know,

I guess,

Given your different approach to what you do and consideration of health and overall health,

Holistic health,

And the implications of,

And the connection that humans have with soil and food farming,

You know,

What is it,

There are some examples that you can give that defines that really well,

Like,

You know,

With a patient,

Their health versus if that person potentially had been to another practice and,

And done a normal style of dentistry,

That there might've been a big difference in,

In,

In the outcome.

I'm just sort of drawing,

You know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look,

I guess the one that,

I mean,

There are so many,

But,

But one that is a little unusual was the young girl who was 12 years old that came to me with her family for an opinion,

Because we do some orthodontics in our practice,

Straightening teeth.

And she was getting a second opinion.

And while she was sitting there,

I noticed that her mouth was open and she was breathing something like this.

I'll demonstrate on,

Like she's going.

So she was breathing quite quickly.

And I noticed she was a new patient and I noticed on her history card that she'd suffered,

12 year old girl suffered from enuresis,

Which is bed wetting,

Bed wetting.

And she had a 10 year old and an eight year old sibling who didn't wet their bed.

And so this was a pretty major problem.

And she'd been to see a urologist,

Neurologist,

Psychologist,

The parents had literally spent $10,

000 on medical treatment and the girl was still wetting her bed.

And they came to me for an orthodontic opinion.

And I noticed she was breathing from her mouth and breathing very fast.

Now,

From my undergraduate training,

I didn't have to do a PhD for this.

From my undergraduate training,

I knew that if you over breathe,

Well to an extreme you hyperventilate and you pass out.

But if you don't pass out,

What happens is you affect the balance of chemistry in the body,

Which causes your smooth muscle in the body to contract.

And the bladder is smooth muscle.

So I said to the parents,

I think the reason your daughter is suffering from bed wetting is because she has a breathing dysfunction.

She's breathing through her mouth too quickly.

And the parents looked at me pretty much like you just looked at me then Charlie with a look of surprise.

And I suggested to them that they might try using a little bit of paper to tape on the mouth at night to keep the mouth closed and encourage the child to breathe through her nose.

Again,

They looked at me like,

Is this guy telling me to tape her mouth?

I said,

Yes,

I am.

And so the reason being that by keeping your mouth closed,

You breathe through your nose and by breathing through your nose,

Some wonderful things happen to your body and your health.

And even the coronavirus has a story here.

We'll come back to the little girl.

So the father said,

I will sleep in her room tonight.

I'll give it a go.

And I said,

Remember,

I'm only telling you to tape her mouth.

I'm not telling you to tie her hands behind her back.

You know,

She will remove her tape if she's not breathing.

Believe me,

She will remove it.

Anyway,

Solve the problem.

Solve the problem in one night,

$2 piece of tape.

And the reason that is significant and it's relevant to both regenerative agriculture and dentistry is that narrow jaws and crowded teeth mean you have a narrow upper airway.

If you have a narrow upper airway,

You are more prone to respiratory problems and sleeping problems and breathing problems.

And that is pretty major.

Now,

Why would you have a narrow mouth?

You have a narrow mouth because from the moment of conception,

Even arguably before conception,

Your parents and you as an infant,

As a fetus,

Were not on a nutrient dense diet.

What does a nutrient dense diet mean?

A diet of food that is grown in healthy soils.

How do you do that?

I love this,

Ron.

This is fantastic.

So there is a 12 year old girl's case related back to regenerative agriculture because you need,

Well,

I remember,

Yeah,

Me too.

And I remember another guy who you would have listened,

Know very well,

I'm sure Charlie Massey saying,

You know,

His five cycles and things,

But he also uses this term enabling nature rather than dominating.

And he also uses the,

Makes the point that in a teaspoon of healthy soil,

You've got a billion microbes.

In a square metre of healthy soil,

You've got 40 kilometres of hyphae,

The mycorrhizal fungi.

It's those microbes that break down the nutrients in the soil to feed the plant that we either eat or feed the animal that eat that plant.

And they've developed a healthier jaw and a wider jaw that doesn't predispose you to mouth breathing and bed wetting.

Or for adults getting up at night to go to the bathroom,

A lot of adults get up at night to go to the bathroom.

And a lot of people think,

Well,

There are lots of reasons why you might do that.

I mean,

Diabetes is a good example of that.

Certain medications,

There are a whole range of reasons why people get up at night to go to the bathroom,

Prostate,

Another problem.

But one very common reason that cuts right across the ages from birth to 80 years old is dysfunctional breathing,

Sleep disordered breathing,

Of which mouth breathing is a part.

Snoring is another part.

Ron,

This is gold for so many reasons.

Why,

At what point did you connect?

So you said you learnt the sort of the breathing and the bed wetting as an undergraduate.

So that I guess that was a resume.

Well,

I learnt the physiology.

I never learnt the connection.

Okay,

Right.

I never learnt the connection.

And this is the thing about the way medicine and dentistry is taught.

When I studied anatomy and physiology and I passed it in second year dentistry,

I thought you butte,

Done that,

Put that book away.

And then I'd studied biochemistry and I thought,

Oh my God,

I've got to learn all these pathways and oh God,

I learned them all up.

Thank God I passed that.

I don't have to worry about that.

If biochemistry was taught with nutrition in combination with agriculture,

You'd have,

You know,

Ag science people sitting in a dental thing,

You know,

We'd be talking to each other,

But it's not taught like that.

If you learnt anatomy and physiology as part of chronic pain management or a whole range of things,

It's never applied.

And that's what I mean about making connections as you get older,

You know,

I had to say that really carefully then,

But,

But you know,

You know,

Just making those connections and learning that,

Wow,

That's amazing.

These things are connected and it reminds me of my four years at rural science at Armidale University.

Shout out to you and me,

There's another plug we can tap into them.

But with no sincerity is that the,

It's a science degree and we had 40 units and they pretty much all operated separately and there wasn't connection between soil chemistry,

Soil,

Soil,

Soil physics and the biology.

They just weren't the sort of the,

The well-rounded collection of those ideas into,

Or how does that actually work in life?

You know,

So,

So at what point,

Ron,

Did,

Did you make that connection and what was the sort of that sort of stepping into that space and going,

Oh,

Hang on,

You know,

Is the connection here and then hang on,

Actually soils got something to do with it.

And then how do you get good soil?

I mean,

When did,

When did your,

Your,

Your journey into regenerative agriculture or that space or understanding sort of start?

Yeah,

I think there were two kind of seminal points.

One was probably in the mid eighties where I'd already been exploring this for the jaw and headaches for a long time,

Five years,

Seemed like a long time.

And I was exploring it and then I did this course in the States where the guy who was teaching it,

He was,

He was a dentist.

He said,

These headaches that people experience are stress related headache.

And everyone went,

Yeah,

Well that's pretty well what a lot of people think.

I've got a normal tension headache.

There's no such thing as a normal headache,

But anyway,

Tension headache,

It's stress,

Stress related.

But what do you mean by stress?

This guy came up with a model.

This was probably 1983 or four.

And he said,

Our stress,

Stress is a function of emotional,

Environmental,

Postural,

Nutritional,

And dental stress.

Right?

So he had this five stress model,

Emotional,

Environmental,

Postural,

Nutritional,

And postural.

I was about 30 at the time.

So I certainly didn't feel qualified to even delve into emotional stress.

Okay.

But I recognised it.

Environmental stress in the early eighties was a very new thing and I didn't really know what they were talking.

Nutritional stress was definitely something I immersed myself in from about 1981 to the present day.

So I've been into,

And postural stress was also important.

So dental,

Postural,

And nutritional was how it happened.

And so I evolved my knowledge in nutritional and that up until probably the mid early 2000s.

And then in about 2005,

I was giving a talk and there were two people in the audience,

Vicki and Tim Porter.

And you mentioned UNE.

So the name McClimont is a very well-known name and Vicki's family name is McClimont.

Her father,

Bill McClimont,

Is a legend up there.

So Vicki was listening to my talk about stress and all of this.

And she came up to me afterwards and said,

We must get together.

There's a whole area of a holistic land management that you would find fascinating.

And I did.

And I realised that Vicki and Tim introduced me to the fact that actually there's this thing called holistic land management,

Just as there is holistic healthcare.

And they actually have an awful lot in common.

And so that just was a whole journey.

And she's introduced me.

I mean,

She's an amazing networker.

And she's been a really major force in my life and my development.

So since probably 2005 or 2006,

And then we formed a new organisation called Nourishing Australia,

Which is a not for profit organisation dedicated to healthy soils,

Healthy plants,

Healthy animals,

Healthy food,

Healthy people,

Healthy planet.

And the more you learn,

I mean,

At the same time,

The microbiome was becoming a really fashionable word to hear about in health.

We always have had,

And this is the Charlie Massey idea of enabling or dominating.

As health practitioners,

We've only had one relationship with microbes and that is to totally dominate.

And the last 15 or 20 years has been about enabling,

Enabling or finding the balance.

So there's a lot of similarities between the gut microbiome,

The oral microbiome and the soil microbiome.

And the similarity is that the more diverse they are,

The healthier they are and the more resilient they are.

That's true across all three,

Mouth,

Gut,

Soil.

The more diverse,

The more healthy,

The more resilient.

And so when you start making connections like that,

You just,

And like again,

Other one,

I mean,

I can give you the highlights of some of these shows,

Charlie,

Because they are so,

They are very much part of my thinking.

When Alan Savory,

Who another is a legend to many,

Many farmers,

Up in people in general,

He says,

It's not the resource that's the problem,

It's the way it's managed.

There needs to be a holistic context.

So before any decision is made,

It doesn't matter what it is,

In any aspect of life,

Make the decision in a more holistic context.

How will my decision impact on my immediate environment,

On the people around me,

On the planet,

On the future generations?

So to hear that coming from a holistic land manager,

And he also said,

If you are expecting the change to come from above,

You will be waiting for a long time.

And I don't think he was talking about God.

So putting God aside,

If you're expecting it to come from government or professional organisations,

You are going to be waiting a long time because they lack,

They are very slow to accept new ideas.

They are very protective of their own egos and reputations,

And they lack common sense.

And when he said that,

That just so resonated with me.

So that was kind of the model of stress,

The five stressors was one turning point in the mid 80s,

Early 80s,

Which just projected me onto a path of learning,

Which is a great,

It's a great model.

I mean,

If everyone reckons stress is affecting their health,

You go,

Are you stressed?

And most people go,

Oh mate,

Am I stressed?

Yeah.

And okay,

Well,

Do you think stress is playing a role in your life?

Yeah.

Is it a good role or a bad role?

Well,

Most people think it's not a good role.

It's affecting their health.

So if something's affecting your health,

It helps to know what the problem is.

If you're going to do something about it,

You need to know what the problem is.

And this structure is a great way of approaching it and reducing the stressors in your life.

And it's,

You know,

You then hear my tummy gurgling away there.

It's the,

See just hanging out for the soup.

I mean,

Make you a cup of broth there.

I haven't eaten all day.

The,

Oh I forgot where I was going to go there.

Soil,

I don't know why I try and remember.

The soil,

You know,

I say,

And I can't remember where I stole this one from is,

You know,

The soil is the stomach of plants.

You know,

It's an external stuff.

Yes,

I love that.

That was great.

I remember you saying that.

I remember you saying that.

That was good.

I really,

I would have quoted you on that,

But I thought seeing you were here,

I'd leave that one to you.

Oh,

Now I'm trying to remember what I was doing.

I'm going to move on.

Stressors and stuff.

Oh,

It doesn't matter.

What am I doing?

Oh,

Now tell me,

I was really doing my homework on you there before and I was fascinated with,

And you are,

You're a member of the Australasian society of lifestyle medicine,

Which is interesting lifestyle medicine in itself,

But in the Australasian college of nutrition and environmental medicine.

What is environmental medicine?

Well,

Environmental medicine is a very big topic.

I mean it's literally tens of thousands of chemicals we are exposed to each and every day.

And we could be excused for walking down,

Up and down the shop,

The supermarket aisles,

Looking at all the labels thinking,

Oh,

Well,

If it's on the shelf,

It must be approved.

Very sobering to learn that is not the case.

There are a 140,

000 chemicals that we are exposed to in our world increasing by about two or 3000 chemicals every year.

And only about 5% have been tested to any extent.

And when they are tested,

The way they are tested is one at a time over a short period of time,

Usually on a healthy university student.

And there'll be,

And so that's actually not the way we engage with them because it ignores synergy.

For example,

If you gave,

Say mercury,

A toxicity value of one and lead,

A toxicity value of one.

And when you added mercury to lead,

You might think that one plus one equals two,

But it doesn't.

One plus one equals 10.

It's an exponential thing.

It's not linear.

So when we are exposed to multiple chemicals,

Which is the only way we are exposed to them,

Not over a month or two,

But over a lifetime and not as a 30 year old healthy university student,

If indeed such a thing exists,

But as a whatever age we are at over a lifetime,

Then that is environmental medicine.

Number one,

Environmental medicine also involves,

And that is in the furniture,

In our clothes,

In our personal care products,

In our foods,

In our,

You know,

It's everywhere.

It's ubiquitous.

Another part of environmental medicine is the home environment.

So you need to look at dampness and mole and things like that.

You could be on the best diet,

And I've seen many patients like this,

The best diet in the world,

The best supplements in the world,

Everything organic,

Meditating,

Exercising,

Sick as a dog.

Why?

Because the house in which they are living is making them sick.

Through mold,

Dust,

You know,

Outgassing of chemicals.

So that's another aspect of environmental medicine.

And another aspect of environmental medicine is EMF radiation.

Now,

We all love our technology,

You know,

And I'm addicted to it more than any,

You know,

Just as much as anybody.

But to,

You know,

There's this guy,

Many people will have heard of him,

Albert Einstein.

And,

You know,

One thing he came up with,

Albie to his mates,

And he said,

Every atom in the universe is both energy and matter.

Okay.

That's E equals MC squared.

Every atom in the universe is energy and matter.

So that means every atom in our body is energy and matter.

And to assume that the energy we surround ourselves with is EMF radiation does not have a biological effect is naive at the very best and negligent at the very worst.

I actually think,

I mean,

I think this whole EMF story may well unfold to be to the 21st century,

What lead in petrol and tobacco was to the 20th century.

So sleeper,

Isn't it?

Was not,

Not,

Not,

It's waking up as it's waking up.

Yeah.

It's,

It's a real,

It's a real issue.

We need,

And we,

And the answer again is not to be confrontational and,

You know,

You're not going to get rid of it of technology.

I mean,

This last few months has kind of highlighted that more to us than ever before.

But we need to have a healthy relationship with it.

So give me some examples in,

In,

In the,

In the home of,

You know,

There's technology in our hand and there's,

And there's power in the walls.

There's electricity running through the walls.

What are some of the things that our listeners can consider in their home,

In their workplace that they might want to make some inquiries about or ask questions about,

You know?

Yeah.

Well,

I think,

I think in your bed,

Cause that's where hopefully you spend a third of your day and you know,

That's a whole other story.

A sleep.

A sleep is your built,

In my opinion,

Sleep is your built in non-negotiable life support system.

So,

And it's free.

Eight hours.

Eight hours,

Seven to nine hours for 90% of the population.

Seven to nine hours is,

Is what we need.

But from an electronic,

From an EM,

From a environmental perspective,

I think the,

That there are several keys.

One is to have all technology at least two meters away from your head.

So this business of having your laptop on your lap in bed,

Wrong for many reasons.

The radiation is one,

But it's no time to be connecting with the world just as you're about to go to sleep and solving the world's problems or catching up with your friends or fearing of missing out on things.

Not even Netflix?

Not even Netflix,

Not on your lap.

That's for sure.

My wife's not gonna be happy to hear that.

Anyway,

Two meters away from your head.

That's at least.

Dark room.

You should check that your house,

Your room,

Particularly your bedroom doesn't have mold.

You know,

Sometimes it's really easy to see,

But if you've had water damage in your house,

Then you almost certainly will have mold.

And,

And dust mites is another major factor,

Which the best way of doing that is just getting a really good vacuum cleaner,

HEPA filter vacuum cleaner and putting bedding out in the sun.

The sun is a really,

So they're the big ones.

I think,

I think keeping technology away.

And if your bed backs on to the fridge or the smart meter of the house,

Move your bed.

We've got a great,

There's a great story from a friend of a great teacher,

Nicole Bilgimer,

Who tells the story that she had 10 miscarriages when she moved into this house and had been to see everybody about everything.

And she's a naturopath.

And it turned out that her house was an electromagnetic radiation nightmare.

And she was backing,

Her bed was backing onto the smart meter.

And when she moved her bed,

She became pregnant and she's got now three healthy kids after 10 miscarriages.

So,

So that's how powerful it can be.

I know when we're staying at hotels,

The first thing we do is disconnect all the alarms and the phones or whatever,

And then pull the bed back and make sure there are no power cords underneath in that wall or power points right there,

You know,

Cause it's sleeping next to that.

What is it?

What,

I mean,

Maybe not going into all the detail,

But what is the phenomenon that what is,

Is we are energetic beings.

There's energy running through a copper wire.

What's the sort of,

Why is that a bad thing?

And what's the interference as it were?

I think the kind of hard wiring of stuff is less of a problem because it's insulated.

But I think when we start to go wifi,

I mean,

How does that happen?

How does that signal get from me to you?

Or through me,

From you to over there.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So,

So,

You know that is,

There are currents.

I mean,

Most people would accept you wouldn't stand in front of an X-ray machine and pointed at your genitals and go,

Just fire away,

Man.

It's no problem at all.

You know?

Well,

That's one part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

For some people that might be quite nice.

It might be,

But,

But for,

That's part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Well,

Okay.

This wifi radiation isn't ionising radiation,

But it's coming down,

You know,

Like if you think of the visible light spectrum,

You know,

Red,

Orange,

Yellow,

Green,

Blue.

I always forget it.

There is a little saying about that too.

Yeah.

Anyway,

Well,

And we get down to V that's violet.

We know that if we move beyond V on the electromagnetic spectrum,

Ultraviolet light,

Isn't terribly good for us.

You know,

So we know there are areas in that spectrum that are not,

That are not good for us.

So when you get up the red part,

Infrared is not bad.

You know,

People put infrared lamps on,

People get into infrared saunas that is down that end of the spectrum.

The problem with computers is that they are down the blue end,

Apart from the radiation,

They're also emitting a blue light,

Which then that blue light is down that end of the electromagnetic spectrum,

Which is affecting our eyes and our melatonin production.

So,

So,

You know,

LED lights are another example,

You know,

Incandescent lights used to get hot.

Remember those?

Yeah.

They're down the red end of the spectrum.

They actually are not as bad as LED lights,

Which are more down the blue end of the spectrum.

So what I'm saying is,

And again,

This gets back to confrontation,

You know,

Isn't that interesting?

Does that mean we have to throw out all LED lights?

Does that mean we have to throw out all technology?

Does that mean we have to reject it all?

No,

I don't think it does.

But being aware of it doesn't mean we're not,

You know,

That that's,

You know,

Being aware of it is empowering.

Is there somewhere that people can go,

A website that you recommend you're on or something that the people can suss this stuff out?

I mean,

We're pretty aware and we've looked into,

You know,

Copper blankets and copper paint.

We,

I'm trying to get myself a EMF meter for a long time as a follow up.

David,

David Von Payne up there at Interwarmer,

The meter man,

He's got so much cool stuff.

Any,

Any farmers out there,

He's got to these biological monitoring kits.

He's got bricks,

Meters and everything.

He's got,

He's looking at the EMF stuff.

But is there somewhere where you can recommend people go and go,

Okay,

Here's a bit of a house audit or something,

You know,

That they can suss it out?

Yeah,

I think if you are concerned yourself as a,

As a,

You know,

As a person,

A person,

A parent,

Getting a building biologist to come in.

A building biologist.

There is a specialty.

It's a two year,

I think it's a degree course or a graduate certificate course,

But anyway,

It's a two year program of study,

Which makes you a building biologist.

And,

And I think building biology is worth consulting.

And I think independent building biologists,

Not ones that are necessarily connected with a building industry that will load you up with 50 or a hundred thousand dollars worth of remediation work,

But someone who's independent,

Not connected,

Would be a good place if you were concerned about your own home.

If you were a healthcare professional and you wanting to learn more about it,

The Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine,

Which is ACNEM,

A-C-N-E-M,

ACNEM.

Org is a good place to go.

I happen to be the president of that college,

But it's true.

I mean,

You know,

That is.

.

.

I mean,

You are for a good reason.

Yeah,

I am for a good reason.

And so that would be a good place for a healthcare professional to go.

And if you were a consumer,

You know,

A member of the public who wanted to educate yourself,

There are many good sites.

I personally think low tox life is a very good place.

I think Alex Stewart has done a remarkably good job of bringing it together in an accessible way.

So I think.

.

.

Low tox life.

Low tox life.

Dot com.

I think so.

Low tox life,

Alex Stewart.

Yeah.

And she's written a great book as well.

Totally.

Called Low Tox Life.

So,

You know,

If you all those kinds of things,

That's what I'd be doing.

Right.

Ron,

Where are we going to go now?

What would you.

.

.

Oh,

No one talk about your book.

This is culminating to this.

.

.

We've sort of danced around all this crazy cool stuff.

Where can people learn more about what you've done?

What.

.

.

You know,

You've got a book.

I have.

I have the books called A Life Less Stressed,

The Five Pillars of Health and Wellness.

And I came out in Australia in 2018 in the UK and the US in 2019.

It's coming out in Turkey in 2020.

Can't wait.

I hope they don't ask me to do the audio book for that one.

But anyway,

It's a book that I've written and actually it's a conversation I wish I could have had with every single patient I've ever seen because it kind of follows everything that I've been interested in.

So,

It's a book in three parts.

The first part is really exploring healthcare where we're at.

Why health messages are so confusing and contradictory.

And the role of the chemical,

Food and pharmaceutical industry in regulatory,

In government regulations,

Public health policy,

In all levels of healthcare in fact.

You've gone there,

Ron.

I have.

I have.

Good on you.

So that's part one of the book.

And at the end of part one,

You could either throw your hands up and go,

Oh my God,

I don't know what to believe.

Or you could say my health's just too important to leave to anybody else.

I better read on.

And so the second part of the book addresses stress,

Which is kind of,

As I said,

If you're going to,

If stress is a problem,

It's good to know what that problem is.

And I see it as a balancing act.

Try and identify as many stresses as you can and reduce them.

So emotional,

Environmental,

Postural,

Nutritional,

And dental stresses,

Try and reduce them.

And then the third part of the book is about building resilience.

And they are the five pillars of health.

Sleep,

Breathe,

Nourish,

Move,

And think.

And in my opinion,

As our world becomes more and more complicated,

The solutions I think are remarkably simple and not very costly and well within everybody's reach.

So the book is in those three parts.

And the podcast really was born out of that because as soon as I wrote my book,

A lot of people,

Or some of my friends said,

Don't have it printed because as soon as it's printed,

You'll wish you could have changed it.

And so I thought,

No,

I do want it printed because it's a really good calling card.

It's like a business card.

But having a book,

That's a cool thing.

Yeah.

I'm very proud of it.

And the fact that it's been published,

I didn't have to self publish it.

It was published by Scribe in Melbourne and in the UK.

So that was good.

But as soon as it's written,

It's written.

And so that's what the podcast is about.

So I just explore all the themes I cover in the podcast,

Which means every week I can talk to somebody else about anything else.

And so it is an evolving conversation because there's new science behind things and there's other experts that have appear on the scene.

And that's,

I'm just going to,

Where was that one?

Just tell a joke,

Ron.

Just tell a joke.

Oh my God.

I'm not good at stand up.

This is,

Oh,

Thanks for the ease there already.

Oh yeah,

There it is.

Hang on,

There it is.

For those who are on the machine of YouTube,

That's great.

That's great.

That's a good size too.

Now just,

We're looking at the time,

Ron,

And just thinking related to stress and the book in which you identify or you're asking people,

I guess,

To ask better questions and you know,

Potentially acknowledge that they're not as healthy as they could be.

And they might be,

Might be a good idea to pick up your book and get some help essentially.

What is it?

Farmers aren't good at asking for help.

I'm going back to farmers,

People generally and men,

That I guess I'm a bit fond of male farmers.

That sounds a bit weird,

Doesn't it?

I'm fond of male farmers.

I am.

I'll stand behind that statement.

That they,

Acknowledging that they may not be as healthy as they could be.

That,

You know,

Whilst farmers are very active,

They're not very fit,

You know,

That we're very active,

But we spend a lot of time in front of the screen,

You know,

Buying and selling cattle and doing whatever,

Our books.

You know,

What is it that you think that farmers,

What might get farmers over the line to pick up your book and just ask better questions about their health?

What are some of the touch points we can?

Well it comes back to where we started,

Charlie,

Which was we were going to solve the meaning of life and we haven't quite got to that yet.

But,

You know,

If I had to think about what is the meaning of life,

I would say that it's to fulfil your potential,

You know,

Like,

And that doesn't matter what you are,

What you're talking about.

If you're talking about it as a husband,

As a father,

As a brother,

As a farmer,

As a dentist,

As a member of a community,

Whatever it means to you,

Fulfilling your potential,

I believe is the meaning of life.

Doing the,

Being the best you can be at whatever it is you do.

And in order to do that,

Being healthy is a really good place to start because,

You know,

That's going to allow you to fulfil your potential.

So I think focusing on your health is a really good investment,

Really good return on investment.

And there are so many positives,

Physically,

Mentally,

Emotionally,

I would argue financially,

Environmentally,

That flow out of that.

It's a win,

Win,

Win,

Win,

Win situation.

So I think that,

I think just accepting that it's like with sleep,

You know,

People,

I said sleep is without a doubt the most important part of the day.

What is the first step to getting good nights,

A consistently good night's sleep?

Prioritising.

If you don't prioritise it,

All the rest,

I could talk to you for the next hour about sleep hygiene and all the different things you could do.

But if you don't prioritise it,

All the rest is a waste of time.

It's a bit like that with health too.

If you haven't accepted that it's the most important thing and that you need to be in control of it,

If you're the sort of person that wants to outsource it,

There is a whole world of doctors and pharmacopeia,

Pharmacology,

You know,

That are waiting to embrace you with open arms,

Just as I'm sure for farmers who couldn't be bothered changing,

You know,

They could go to a chemical industry and find the latest and greatest new fertiliser,

Pesticide,

Herbicide,

Outsource the problem.

But that's part of control what you can control.

If you can control your own health to some degree,

I mean,

We're often reminded of how random that is.

So I'm not saying it's a guarantee to a long life,

But I think it's a question of quantity and quality.

And while we can't guarantee the quantity,

Although we can hope we can,

We can certainly say that you have a better quality of life.

And so I think prioritising your health is a really important place to start and fulfilling your potential is a good thing to aim for.

I think one of the secrets,

Ron,

And again,

I'm talking about male farmers,

And there's lots of female farmers out there.

So this sort of works in a similar way is the,

I think the secret is in the hands of the partners of the farmers,

You know,

The wives who may not be doing as much stuff outside or the owners involved,

Maybe not getting as exposed to chemical,

That sort of thing,

You know,

That sort of seeing this from the outside,

Literally looking at husbands and partners and so on and going,

Man,

You're just not doing so well,

Are you?

You know,

And having those,

I was having a great time conversation with Tommy Herschel yesterday about stepping up and having that difficult conversation and calling them out,

You know,

And I'm not being,

And this is not about being harsh and being aggressive and sort of making someone feel bad about their current thing.

It's just about having,

Owning and being honest with that person and saying,

You know what,

You know,

And coming from a place of love and saying,

I'm really concerned about you.

You know,

I care about you.

I want you to care about you.

And the,

The words,

Self love and farm.

I mean,

When were they ever put in the one sentence?

Yeah.

Well,

You know,

I think,

I think men,

That that's a whole other story about men and how,

How we accept things,

What goes on.

I know with my own in my own life,

And I mean,

I've been fortunate enough to just have my 35th wedding anniversary last yesterday.

You got married.

Well,

You know,

Like it's serious now,

Charlie.

We've,

I think,

I think I've accepted serious.

We're through the honeymoon period,

But I know that it's a constant process.

Men,

Men love to solve problems and they don't like to necessarily discuss them.

And I know when I,

When my,

When something's going on in my mind,

And I think I'm reasonably good at communicating and my wife will say to me,

Ron,

What's wrong?

And I'll go,

No,

No,

Nothing's wrong.

It's fine.

And,

And,

And honestly,

And she,

She knows I'm crawling into my cave and it literally takes me a day or two to just be able to,

In my own head,

Articulate what is going on.

You know,

It's not that I'm trying to be anything other than I am.

I just can't articulate as well as a woman can.

And I've got two daughters who are now 34 and 30.

And,

And,

And I,

So I say,

I grew up in a household full of women.

And I say that because I had my first kids when I was 30.

So that's when I started to grow up because I was surrounded in a household full of women,

Having grown up with my brother and my father and my mother,

Very male dominant house and,

And girls,

Women are much better at playing the game of life.

And we should just embrace it.

I mean,

I think as men,

We shouldn't man up and kind of get all muscular about it.

We should just sweet surrender and,

And being able to say,

I don't know what's wrong with me.

Can we talk about it?

Wow.

I've got to remember that myself.

My wife will listen to this and go,

Yeah,

Well,

Why don't you do that?

Yeah.

Talk was it,

Walk it,

Talk,

Tom.

Now talk about talking.

We have,

We have talked a lot and I've so I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this wrong because I mean,

I just love the idea that I'm sitting next to a dentist and I've had such a,

Such a wonderful,

Not the sitting next to any other dentist would be a bad thing.

I'm just saying it's just an unlikely conversation to have evolved in,

You know,

In this situation.

But you're here for that reason,

Because I knew you had some good stuff.

And I trust that the listeners can you guys out there,

You know,

I do this podcast so that you can take some tips home and,

And,

And your book is talking about taking things home.

Your book is available.

Where can people find it?

Booktopia,

If you're in Australia,

I like to promote that as opposed to,

You can get it on Amazon.

Fish pond,

If you're in New Zealand.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's also an audio book as well.

So God,

If you wanted to listen to me Serenade,

You've said the whole,

I did.

I did.

That was a whole other experience.

It was a,

It actually,

Yeah,

It was an interesting experience,

But I'd never read it from cover to cover.

And I took about,

It took a few sessions to do it,

But anyway,

How long,

How many,

How many?

Well,

It's a 12 hour listen.

But it was a 24 hour record.

Level of fluoride added to the water supply ranges from 0.

07 to 1.

2.

I don't even get me started on that.

You picked a,

You picked a thing that would say,

Oh,

Is he into water fluoridation?

That's a whole other story.

Oh,

Totally.

And I've,

I've got some stories around that too,

Because without going into it,

I think I was Boorawa when I grew up and I didn't drink the town water in Boorawa.

Boorawa was an early experimental town in which Boorawa was put in water.

Right.

Yeah.

Well,

That's a whole other story.

It's a really,

You know,

That that's actually a metaphor for how we approach disease in our society.

And it's not a good one.

I don't,

But that's a whole other story.

I reckon we should do this again,

Ron.

Can you tell me back down in Sydney?

Yeah.

Or I could come and do the tour.

Do it.

The country tour.

Why not?

I mean,

As long as we're sitting somewhere with a nice view and a,

You know,

Good place for a yarn.

Ron,

Thank you so much.

I've so enjoyed that.

And we'll put all your show notes,

Links and so on to all those famous people we mentioned and also to your stuff too,

Ron,

And in the show notes.

And Ron,

Thank you so much for regaling us with the steps along your regenerative journey.

Thanks Charlie.

There you go.

Really enjoyed my chat there with Dr.

Ron.

He really opened up about,

I don't know,

Just his life and everything.

He's very,

Very open and honest kind of guy.

We only interview honest,

Open people on our show,

Of course.

I hope so.

Anyway,

We hope no crooks get through the filter.

Now,

No,

I'm not talking about crooks because far from it next week,

I am really excited to introduce or to release at least,

Rachel Ward,

The wonderful stalwart,

As it were,

Of Australian pacting.

She,

And not many people know this,

Is a farmer,

Has had a farm for,

I think,

30 years now up on the North Coast in New South Wales.

And for all those years wasn't doing too much,

Well,

She was certainly farming with her family there and doing all sorts of other wonderful acting jobs and advocacy jobs work.

And she recently,

In the last couple of years,

Has turned her hand to a tent and has really taken it by the throat and doing wonderful things up there.

So I had a really pretty intimate and cool chat on the front,

Front brand of the house.

Beautiful stretch of property up on the coast.

You can't see the coast,

But you know,

It's not far away.

It's absolutely beautiful.

So Rachel,

Thank you for the chat and listening.

I hope you look forward to,

Because I am,

The release of Rachel Ward's interview next week on the Regenerative Journal.

This podcast is produced by Rhys Jones at Jager Media.

If you enjoyed this episode,

Please feel free to subscribe,

Share,

Rate and review.

For more episode information,

Please head over to www.

Charliernet.

Com.

Au.

Thank you.

Reviews

Great interview! Thanks.

I loved this! It was very informative.. very helpful ..