On Leaving No Trace

Excerpted from Dharma Dialogues with Catherine Ingram. Recorded in Lennox Head, Australia, in April 2018. From the opening talk: “A lot of our troubles are troubles because we tell ourselves that they are. We go over and over the negative situations that we imagine, or that already happened. We fixate on them, and they becoming troubling because we keep reinforcing that idea.”

Transcript

Welcome to In the Deep.

I'm your host,

Katherine Ingram.

The following is excerpted from a session of Dharma Dialogues held in Lenox Head,

Australia in April 2018.

It's called,

On Leaving No Trace.

A lot of our troubles are only troubles because we tell ourselves that they are.

We go over and over the negative situations that we imagine or that already happened.

We just fixate on them and then they become troubling.

Because we keep reinforcing that idea.

Have you ever watched a toddler weaving along across a floor and suddenly the toddler falls?

Often the toddler will look around at its mom to see if that was bad or not.

Depending on the mother's reaction,

The toddler might start screaming.

Or if it seems like that was okay,

The toddler kind of gets up and keeps going.

Right?

Was that okay?

Often we can apply this very simple formula in our own case.

Check and see if the story you're telling yourself is really true.

Is this really a big trouble?

Is this a big problem in the scheme of things?

Often the answer to that question is no.

You're just making up.

You have a narrative.

We're very conditioned with narratives about our lives and how it's going and how it should have gone and what might happen and what did happen.

And we go over and over and over the story.

Much of it is actually made up,

Though you might be able to make a case for it being historically accurate.

A lot of your interpretation about it is made up.

Another possibility is to really rest in an open awareness,

In a simple feeling of presence.

And don't bother with a lot of narration.

You'll find you don't need it.

You can actually function better without it.

A lot of constant checking of the problem,

The trouble.

Now this is not to deny,

Of course,

It's not to deny when there are problems and you handle them.

But at least you're not having to be burdened by a big sack of imaginary problems that are going to be draining your clarity,

That are not going to be at all helpful for functioning.

And that dim your light.

They dim your light so that when you're in a circumstance of loveliness,

Just going over your problems and your troubles in your mind,

You're not there in the lovely moments.

And also when you're with others,

You're with other folk,

And you're enshrouded by the drama,

By the old narration,

It's impeding in the flow of the relationship.

And we all know people who,

Every time you see them,

You're hearing a litany of the problems.

It's a common habit,

Unfortunately,

I think for humans.

There's something about maybe a false sense of preparation,

If you're kind of being braced for difficulty,

So you're sort of preparing.

I don't think it works well that way,

That strategy,

But I think that that is why a lot of people tend to go over and over and over the problems.

But we also know as a friend to people who have that tendency,

How tiring it is and how you feel you can't quite just be with each other.

You can't just look at the sky or enjoy the breeze or talk about the colors of the leaves.

That it might seem off-topic to your friend who's invested in this imaginary negative situation.

So I often emphasize that our willingness to direct our own attention in intelligent ways and in brightness,

In the brightness of being,

Which is not something distant,

By the way.

It's just right here.

It's always just here.

You don't have to attain it.

You don't have to do anything special.

That in that directing of your attention,

It's great for you.

It really makes things nicer for your own life.

It's also really great for everyone you touch in your life.

It's really great for everyone else.

Because at least with you there's this space,

You know,

There's this space of rest,

Of just this,

Of sweetness,

Of simplicity,

Where we don't have to go over and over the problems.

And on the other side,

Incidentally,

Might as well mention this part,

It's also tiring to be with people who are constantly affirming how great their lives are.

That's another one which you kind of suspect after a point,

I mean a little bit of it might be okay,

But after a point you start to suspect maybe it's not as great.

Maybe you're needing to tell it this way to make it seem so.

A different kind of distancing,

Right?

A different kind of distancing in a relationship,

Where you're with someone who has the need to let you know how fabulous things are for him or her,

Or they or whatever one wants to call oneself.

Isn't it nice just to be with someone who's just hanging out,

Right,

Is not on a negative track and is not on some sort of false positive or imposed positivity.

Just simple,

Just being,

Just like any creature hanging out,

Any creature.

All we have to do is watch them a little bit and you kind of get the message.

I was just going to say,

I so get what you're talking about.

It's fantastic.

The only difficulty I have at times is how do you sit with the darkness?

How do you sit with the darkness?

How do you resolve it?

And I managed to through meditation,

Actually just sit with it.

It's not my world,

It's God's world as I say,

It's not mine.

But at the same time,

How do you sit with it?

Well,

I like your,

I think the answer is in your question,

In the sitting with it,

That you don't have to fight with it,

Right?

What you might be referring to as darkness comes in different forms for different people.

It might come for some as depression,

For others as regret,

Others as worry,

Others as thoughts that you find perhaps shameful.

We have a range of what we could call darkness and it's very conditioned and you can't really own it,

Which is good.

So let's say it arises.

One doesn't have to have a fight with it or be freaked out by it or in any way identify with it,

Right?

You're not doing it,

You're not doing it,

It's passing through.

It's like a program that got installed somewhere along the line and it's now running.

And your job,

If you will,

Not quite the right word,

But is to just,

You don't pick it up.

You don't fight with it and you don't attach to it or think it's you or think that it's something about you.

So one of my favorite lines that I say a lot is,

Assume the mind is mad.

Start there.

Assume it's mad.

Not everybody has a mad mind.

Some people are lucky they don't have a mad mind.

I don't know a lot of those people,

But I'm sure they exist a few.

I don't happen to be one of them.

My mind is mad as a hatter.

I sometimes tell a story of having a crazy old aunt who lives in the attic and who's just ranting and raving.

And you basically say,

There,

There,

Dear,

Now and again.

You shout to her,

It's okay,

Never mind,

It's okay.

And so you're not trying,

You don't kill her.

And you don't have to make her try to become sane.

But you don't hang on her every word.

Right?

So like this,

What you're calling the darkness really comes usually in the form of some thoughts that dissipate.

Thoughts arise and they dissipate.

Some of them are lovely,

Some of them are altruistic,

Some of them are depraved.

And they come and they go.

And to the degree that you have spaciousness,

That you understand the spaciousness of your awareness around those thoughts,

You will not be at the effect of those thoughts.

This one here.

To the degree that you are at ease,

No matter what's coming by,

Right,

Then you're no longer a slave to the darkness.

What about in one's observations of life and suffering?

Say again?

What about in one's observations of life and suffering?

Yes,

Well suffering is here.

You can't help but see it.

It's here.

And sit with it.

And sit with it.

And your heart will get broken a lot.

As you get more and more awake,

People have a very misguided understanding of what that means,

Being awake.

They think it's going to protect them from suffering.

Or that they're going to get somehow such to a level of equanimity that they'll be unfazed,

That they'll be unbothered,

Or that they'll be transcended.

And I don't find any of that to be the case.

I think that the more clear you get,

The more sensitive you become,

The more empathic you become,

And the more tenderized you become.

And therefore,

You are then subject to a lot more suffering,

But you can handle it.

Because you're also experiencing a lot more joy.

Your spectrum of experience is bigger.

So you're going to feel more on one end,

Which is the sorrow.

You're also going to be able to experience all kinds of simple and tender joys.

And all of it is wishing by.

Like Blake said,

You kiss the joy as it flies.

It's flying by.

But you kiss the sorrow as it flies as well.

And you're not braced against it.

You understand that this world,

This life,

This existence,

It has tremendous loss.

And as you get to a certain age,

And if you have any friends,

The losses start to become.

.

.

I once described it in Dharma Dailies.

It's sort of like when you're watching a popcorn cooker.

So when you're younger,

It's just one now and again in a blue moon.

There comes a point of life where it's just like that.

It just seems like every time you turn around,

One of your dear ones is leaving this stage of life.

They exit left off the stage.

And I suppose if you live long enough,

That popcorn popper slows down because most of your friends have already gone.

One of my dear friends,

Her mother lived until like 101.

And she once said to her daughter,

The only people left now for me are so much younger than me.

All of her own friends,

Her own original siblings,

All of her people were gone.

And she was just with people who were very much younger,

Mostly her own children.

And she talked about the loneliness of that,

When you don't even have your own age group around.

I found that very poignant.

We take for granted a certain conversation,

A certain way that people are sharing our particular moment of history.

All of that is very interesting to consider.

So yes,

There's so much sadness in this world.

And there's a reason we love life,

Because it's a lot of fun and a lot of beauty and a lot of interesting,

Mysterious things about this existence.

And there's a lot of love.

And the more you sit in this ease of being,

And not trying in any way,

You're not working on a reformation project of you.

Right?

When you're not on that project,

You're a lot happier,

You're a lot lighter,

You're a lot more,

You're a lot easier.

So don't worry about this darkness.

The only way it would be really an issue is if you were acting on it.

If you're not acting on it,

And it's simply coming in the form of thoughts,

Then it's not to be concerned with.

And everything,

I mean,

There's nothing off the table.

Everything is allowed,

However sickening the thought.

Yeah,

When I was younger,

I used to suffer quite the existential sort of questions that would come to me in my teenage years,

And couldn't quite understand what it all meant.

But I've been very grateful,

Either age or meditation,

Spirituality,

That I don't need to know anymore.

Beautiful.

And that's liberation.

That's beautiful.

Love it.

Yeah.

And thank you for your answers,

Because I feel like I'm on the right track.

Right.

Very much so,

Yes.

No,

I couldn't agree more.

I have come to the same conclusion.

There's not much we can really know.

I mean,

There's a few things,

Basic,

Very practical things we can figure out,

As the clever animals we are.

But the big mysteries,

Right?

And the paucity of the religious stories that have been handed down,

How kind of absurd they are,

Told to us by people who really didn't know much about anything,

With some few shiny exceptions.

But most of the stories,

The myths of the religions,

Are just absurd.

One thing I've come to,

And I'm going to say it,

That even those sort of things,

Where they're right or wrong,

And I'm known to.

.

.

Reviews

As a lover of the natural world, I am very familiar with the concept of “Leave No Trace” but the way this has been incorporated in this talk is new and refreshing. Really put things in perspective. Got teary-eyed in some parts, especially the last one about the three-legged dog. Worth my hour. Thank you for what you do, Catherine. I’m grateful to be able to listen to you. 💚

What a wonderful teacher. One of those contemporary gurus who helps us put life into perspective and teaches us to contain the busy mind with acceptance of what is.