Sound Therapy For Anxiety With Sonic Yogi

Jonathan Adams is here to help us understand the healing power of sound therapy. What is sound therapy and how can it help with stress and anxiety? Well it has a lot to do with our brain waves. With sound therapy the subtle rhythms of the frequencies help our brain waves to move from those higher states like Beta and down into the meditation states of Alpha and Theta. This occurs through the process called entrainment, which is essentially synchronization, and we automatically begin to relax.

Transcript

Hi,

I'm Curious Cass and this is Curiosity Junkie.

Today's guest explores the healing power of sound and music.

He is a TEDx speaker and an amazing musician.

Please welcome Jonathan Adams,

Aka Sonic Yogi to the podcast.

Hi Jonathan,

Welcome to the Curiosity Junkie podcast.

How are you?

Good morning.

Great to be with you.

How are you?

Yes,

I'm fantastic and it is wonderful to have you on to talk about sound therapy.

I always like starting with how did you get to the sound therapy piece of what you're doing?

Sure.

Well,

It actually came through my own experience with anxiety as well.

You know,

That story kind of goes through different phases,

But in my life I was experiencing panic attacks and anxiety and things like that for several years,

You know,

Experiencing stress with work and some relationships and things like that.

And as part of that process,

I began to practice yoga.

It just looked relaxing and through yoga,

I eventually came to meditation.

With the yoga,

It did help me to begin to feel more relaxed,

More calm and centered in my body.

Also,

Eventually it helped to start to bring out what now in retrospect I know was traumas.

That anxiety at first got better,

But then temporarily it became worse.

And in that sort of intense period,

It was like my nervous system had been laid bare,

So to speak.

And I began to sort of experience sound in a different way.

And I realized that,

You know,

We are vibration and that my nervous system and my body was responding to vibration.

So as a musician,

I was,

You know,

Probably more tuned into that.

And so through that sort of realization about sound,

I began to explore sound in a more therapeutic way,

First to of course help myself go through that healing process.

And then I just wanted to share with family and friends and I knew it was a valuable tool to help reach into those states of relaxation.

That's a great message in that we,

As we find things that help us,

Bring us to kind of peace and calm,

We want to share it because we really know the power in what it's done for us.

That's why I love doing this podcast because I want to share the knowledge of what is out there to help people without having to medicate.

There are alternatives.

Going into the sound therapy piece for you,

The vibration,

I love when you said the body has vibrations,

Right?

I do want to kind of talk about that a little bit,

Like the science behind the music,

If you would.

In general,

Going through my life,

I didn't recognize that I was experiencing these vibrations.

I was just going through from the level of my mind and going through life and the stress to me was sort of out of left field.

But as I began to learn more through this experience,

I realized that my body,

We have a heartbeat,

We have a breath rate and on a more subtle level,

We have our brainwaves.

And I realized later that by trying to fulfill the needs of my identity,

Who I thought I was and what I thought I needed to accomplish in life and those types of things that I was actually just pulling myself always out of that natural vibration.

And so as I began to tune back into my body,

I felt that my awareness became more finely tuned as to when I was pulling myself out of that vibration and really becoming stressed.

I guess one of my main realizations from that whole experience was that in the present moment,

When I'm truly in that present moment,

That that's when my body really comes into alignment with that good vibration.

And that's also when I sort of come out of that identity that seeks to fulfill different things.

I realized my mind was always in the future or the past,

Really rarely in the present moment.

But as I sort of came,

Became tuned back into that present moment,

I realized that that future and that past were just sort of creations of my mind.

And they weren't actually,

You know,

Real in the sense that they described anything that I needed to focus on for my own being.

And so as I came back into that,

I realized,

You know,

I was coming into that more calm vibration.

And so that was a visceral feeling.

And that made me curious,

You know,

Why do I feel this way?

And I could feel that sound also helped me to come into that presence.

And so I began to study and learn about brainwaves and our nervous system and,

You know,

How it all fit together.

So I'll just go through the brainwaves now really quickly.

And so we basically,

For those who haven't heard this before,

We have four main brainwave states and they are beta,

Alpha,

Theta and delta.

And I'm using my hand to show the different ranges because they're kind of like the ranges on your EQ on your stereo.

So they each have a different frequency band.

And each of those frequency bands is a different state of consciousness.

So we have beta,

Which is our normal waking state.

And then we have alpha and theta,

Which are more meditative states.

And then we have delta,

Which is typically a deep sleep state.

And so each of those states also reflects a different state of our nervous system.

So in high beta,

We can typically become stressed.

We typically have a lot of intrusive thoughts and things like that.

And the lower beta is our normal problem solving state,

Which we're probably in most of the day.

In alpha and theta,

Our nervous system starts to move towards the parasympathetic state,

Which is our rest and digest.

It's kind of like releasing stress.

We're in a time of safety.

And so that's also a time when we get into that meditative state.

And then in the lower theta,

We typically can kind of cross over from our intellectual thinking mind into our more subconscious mind and begin to see some of those motivating factors of our behavior patterns and things like that.

And so some call that theta state,

The waking dream state,

As we're sort of crossing over into the subconscious.

And then there's a more rarely occurring state above beta,

Which is called gamma.

And that's really associated with mystical experiences and things.

And so that state kind of transcends that sort of stress of the high beta and gets into more like what people might refer to as super consciousness,

When your mind sort of just opens up to a larger view of reality.

Right.

So I'm assuming then that most of us live in the anxiety piece of the beta,

Right?

Like we tend to run high.

I do.

I shouldn't say we.

I'm just talking about myself.

Tend to run in like a high beta and getting to,

What do you say,

Alpha and beta?

Yes.

How do we get to that?

And I know this is not ever going to be like,

It's just going to happen quickly.

It's a practice.

And I do kind of want to bring that up that what we're talking about is more of therapy in that it's a practice that you would use on a regular basis to help bring you to a calm state.

Right?

Yes,

Exactly.

Well,

What I found is sound therapy is a great tool for getting into that space.

And really most mind body practices are designed to bring us into that space.

And so yoga,

Of course,

And many yogis describe the yoga high after a yoga class.

And that's part of that experience is coming down into those alpha states.

And then of course,

Meditation is designed to help us reach those states over and over.

And then sound therapy,

Of course,

The subtle rhythms of the frequencies in sound therapy help our brainwaves begin to move from those higher states like beta down into the meditation states.

And that occurs through a process called entrainment,

Which is essentially synchronization.

And so our mind has a natural tendency to latch onto those frequencies and sort of follow them down into those states.

And so when we hear those gentle rhythms,

Our mind just automatically starts to relax.

So of course,

We've all experienced that with relaxing music.

And then sound therapy takes that to another level in that the idea is that we are consciously using the sound for that purpose.

Right.

So we were briefly talking about the vibration that the body has a vibration.

And I kind of want to explore and understand who decides what vibration is good for this and helping calm.

I guess there are different ways of looking at it.

The way that I just described is kind of more of a general way of looking at how you're nervous system responds to those sounds.

And then so,

You know,

There might be a music track that says it's in alpha or theta.

And so that music track would be using an entrainment that is in that range.

So for example,

A theta track would have probably a brainwave entrainment tool that's in maybe the four to six hertz range.

And so listening to that track over time would tend to help the listener into that theta state.

Okay.

So that's generally how it works.

Right.

And in that,

Because I've listened to how I found you,

I forgot to kind of get into that in the beginning is through Insight Timer.

I talk about it all the time.

I don't get any money or referral or anything from it.

I just,

I think it's a wonderful app for people who are looking for just about anything.

There is a talk on anything,

Everything.

There is music,

There are meditations guided.

It has everything on it.

And I found you on there for sleep.

And my question around that is there's a lot of different layers to the music.

It's not just like a sound,

Sometimes you'll do a guitar and is it like a wood flute or?

Yeah.

Yes.

And I love both of those.

Those are my favorite.

But there's also like a tone.

Is that what you're talking about?

That's the piece that is the constant that kind of takes you into the theta or delta piece.

Yeah,

Exactly.

Many times a sound therapy style track will be centered around one tone.

Whereas,

You know,

Music has a chord structure and is moving through a pattern of chords,

Whereas sound therapy typically will revolve around one or two tones.

And sort of that bass tone that you were mentioning is usually the brainwave and trainmet.

And so there are a few different kind of tools.

One popular one is called binaural beats.

And then there's something very similar,

Which is monaural beats.

And then the other one is isochronic tone.

And those are essentially almost the same thing in that they are an oscillating and repetitive rhythm,

Kind of a wah,

Wah,

Wah,

Wah that you'll hear.

So in the case of binaural beats,

It just means by two meaning two,

And then oral meaning your ear.

And so as the person is wearing headphones,

There are two times.

So for example,

The left ear would have 100 hertz,

And then the right ear would have 105 hertz.

And so the difference between those two tones is five hertz.

And so that would become the entrainment rhythm because it's those two tones sort of clash,

They create that sort of wah,

Wah,

Wah,

Wah sound.

And that wah,

Wah,

Wah sound is the five hertz rhythm of the two notes.

And then with the monaural beat,

It's essentially the same thing,

Except for it's not panned to the two headphones.

It's just in the center of the mix.

And then an isochronic tone is like a monaural beat,

Except for it just has a slight bit of silence between the rhythms.

And so it sounds more like a dut,

Dut,

Dut,

Dut,

Dut,

Rather than a wah,

Wah,

Wah.

Oh,

Okay.

I love that because it kind of helps me understand how this works.

Because I feel it,

But I always go,

Well,

How does that work?

Which is fascinating.

So the importance of understanding the beta,

Alpha,

Beta,

Delta,

Is that important when you're looking for music or pieces that are going to,

I mean,

I would think it is to,

To help you relax,

Calm down.

Is it essential?

Most tracks by most composers are,

You know,

They're going to choose music that helps you get into a relaxed state.

So as the listener,

It's not,

You know,

Of utmost importance to know what each of those states are.

Of course,

A delta track is typically going to lead you towards sleep.

And for many people,

Even alpha and theta,

Once it helps the mind begin to relax,

That can help them also move towards sleep.

And so it's not super important for the listener to know,

But just having a general knowledge of what's occurring there,

You know,

May help them to understand what they're actually going for with that type of music.

Yes.

So let's talk a little bit about your music and how you create it and how people can connect with it because I find you on insight timer,

But I know you also have a website that has so much more on it and let's share that with everybody.

My website is sonicyogi.

Com.

I love that by the way.

Yeah,

Thank you.

I was looking for a name and it just came to me in about two minutes and I thought since I've been doing yoga and essentially the sound therapy is really another way of doing yoga and Patanjali who was the father of yoga described what yoga was as the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind,

Which I interpret to mean that all of those ruminating thoughts kind of get quiet.

Oh,

Yes.

And so I think that's what we're all looking for.

And so that's really the reasoning and the intention behind my music is to really assist in helping people to quiet their minds and relax their bodies.

And so that's why I began creating the music.

I was a professional musician touring and traveling with another style of group and I studied classical guitar in college.

And so I did that for many years and still play music as well now.

But the intention at that point was to begin to use my musical training as a way to help people kind of reach into these states.

And I think creatively it allowed me to tune into my own intuition and begin to follow the feelings of my body as the music sort of helped guide into some of those different states.

And so that's been some of the journey for me.

Right.

Do you have a go-to piece that you've created that you really find extremely helpful?

Yeah,

I would say the singing bowl pieces that I created,

Sacral chakra and root chakra are some of my favorites.

And I did a series of pieces that were based on the chakras.

The singing bowls that I have are each one is a tone for each different chakra.

And then in each of the different pieces in that series,

I used a different bowl as sort of the base tone.

I find that just the grounding chakras are really nice for calming and relaxing.

Yes,

Yes.

I have a few singing bowls.

I don't know what their vibration connects to,

But I love them.

And so that takes me to your TEDx talk and I do want to talk about that a little bit because I watched that and I would encourage others to watch that.

I'll put the link in the description so people can connect with that as well as your website.

Let's talk about that experience a little bit because on there you do the singing bowls.

I actually have a little bowl here.

Oh yes,

I love it.

Sometimes I go back and forth like this as opposed to going all the way around.

Right.

There it is.

I love that.

Yes.

Okay.

So in your TEDx talk,

It was on anxiety.

Remind me of the name of it.

Sound therapy for anxiety and stress.

Yes,

That's right.

So let's talk about that a little bit.

Did you design the piece of music that you played there?

Was that designed specifically for that talk or was it something you had created to help you with stress and anxiety?

Well,

I played the singing bowls and then also one with the cellist and the singing bowls was mostly improvised.

That was definitely to help me with stress.

And then the piece with the musician was a piece that was written by us and it just happened to be a relaxing piece.

So that talk actually came about through a concert that we had played together and that was the touring group I was in before.

After I had had my experience with anxiety,

I began giving sort of a mini talk during the concert about anxiety and stress and how sound could be helpful.

And I remember in the beginning of doing that,

I thought people would think this is crazy.

You know,

Somebody's talking about this in the middle of the concert.

But what I found was that people would come up afterwards and say,

I experienced that too and I'm so glad that you're talking about this.

And so that gave me the confidence to continue doing that.

And after one particular concert,

A woman came up and said,

I run these TED Talks for our town.

Would you be interested in giving this talk?

And so that's how that came about.

So it was a wonderful opportunity to sort of reach more people.

Yes,

Absolutely.

Do you still tour and travel with your band?

No,

That group ended our run several years back.

And so now I'm fully focused on what I create with Sonic Yogi.

Because right now we're in the middle of the pandemic,

Really everything is online.

But I enjoy playing in yoga classes and studios.

And eventually,

You know,

I'd like to bring this sound therapy fusion with the performing arts again,

You know,

Bring it out for performances.

Yes,

Yes.

You know,

I think another interesting use for sound therapy would be in schools and for children,

And helping them as well as meditation and just,

You know,

Centering and grounding and teaching that because I do think it would be so beneficial for helping children kind of connect with themselves.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

I've given several talks in schools for ages from the little kids all the way up to teenagers.

And for the smaller ones,

I thought I wonder if they're going to have trouble,

You know,

Really tuning into this and paying attention.

But what I found is they're super curious,

And they get it right away.

And for the older kids,

For the young adults,

I find that they're also very tuned into and anxiety and their inner psychological world.

And,

You know,

Just to speak honestly and openly about some of these issues,

I think is helpful.

And,

You know,

Really,

They're shaping the world to come.

So all the tools that can be given to them at that formative stage are super important.

Absolutely.

I could talk about this forever.

I find it so helpful.

I also feel like right now with the political state of our country and the unknown-ness of what we're experiencing right now,

The anxiety is relatively high for almost everyone,

Even if it's always been low level.

I think people who are not used to dealing with anxiety are dealing with it.

If you have the message or anything that you would love to share.

Definitely.

I think uncertainty and unknowing is not what we particularly enjoy.

And what I learned from my own experience was that to really just allow myself to come back to the present moment,

And my mind is just going to do what the mind does.

It's going to wonder about the future and think about those things.

My ultimate kind of realization and learning tool from that sort of awakening experience was that in this moment now,

To choose love and not fear.

And that sort of simple phrase sort of encapsulated what I want to remember for myself,

Which is that it's always now.

It's always going to be now.

And that I always have a choice.

And that that choice,

I can choose between love or fear as I choose that love.

And sometimes that's super hard,

You know,

To choose that and ground myself in that more and more and more.

And so it's not an arrival point.

It's something that happens in each and every moment.

So if I can,

You know,

Allow that to always be my sort of mantra,

Knowing that I'm being sort of born and dying in each and every moment as I choose just to choose love and not fear.

It comes back to love.

Thank you for coming on,

Jonathan.

It's been a pleasure.

I've learned so much.

If you ever create anything new that you would love to share with the audience,

Let me know.

I'd love to have you back on and maybe share a meditation along with some music.

I think that would be a beautiful thing to do.

That'd be wonderful.

I'd love that.

Thank you.

Okay,

Absolutely.

Well,

Thank you to everyone for tuning in,

Listening,

Watching.

Stay safe,

Stay curious,

And we'll see you next week.

Reviews

Great interview! Very informative, and I enjoyed listening. Thank you!🙏🏻

Very interesting! I'm really enjoying your talks about anxiety. Thank you!

What a beautiful interview. I am amazed at how both parties can open up and let the essence flow. Thank you!!!

I've been finding Insight Timer music at different frequencies and had no idea what was behind them. I've been so curious and now I know! Lovely and thank you!