Dr. Julia Mossbridge On The Premonition Code

This is an edition of the Quantum Yoga podcast, hosted by Jonathan Rickert. The podcast focuses on the biofield, physiology, and the quantum field. This particular edition is an interview with Dr. Mossbridge about wide-ranging topics including her research in the physiology and psychology of precognition and intuition.

Transcript

Welcome back to another edition of the Quantum Yoga Podcast.

Today we're honored with Dr.

Julia Mossbridge who is author of the upcoming book,

The Premonition Code,

And a scientist at IONS and also the director of the Innovation Lab there.

Wow,

I've been waiting for months to talk to you.

I'm so glad we connected.

Thanks for taking your time.

It's a delight to meet with you today and I'm looking forward to talking about a wide range of whatever you want to talk about.

Oh good.

Well let's start with the book because this actually precognition and premonition and intuition and there's a whole bunch of terms that seem to be kind of related to the this essential meaning and I wonder if you could define that for us and then we'll kind of go from there.

Yeah,

Sure.

So think of intuition as the umbrella term.

So intuition covers everything from a premonition to precognitive experience or what's called precognition,

Which I'll explain in a second,

And it also covers sort of what people call hunch or gut feelings.

So intuition is a broad category that essentially means you have a feeling about something you don't quite have a story about the logic of why you're feeling that way but nonetheless you're feeling that way.

And there are people in mainstream academia who are studying intuition,

You know the Office of Naval Research has just put out a grant a couple years ago asking people to propose intuition studies for them because they know that soldiers and naval officers who have good intuition actually survive more,

Right?

And so it's a general sort of umbrella term and it can include things like gathering information through the subconscious mind about,

You know,

You don't notice that you hear a rumble of thunder in the distance but some part of you does and says I think it might rain today,

You don't know why you think that.

So that's considered intuition.

Everything from that to having a dream where someone dies and the next morning you find out that this person who was totally healthy actually dies.

So those are all types of intuition but the latter type that I just talked about falls in the category of either premonition or precognition and so let's talk about that subcategory now.

Yeah so premonition comes from words I mean pre or before and monair to warn.

So it came originally from a root that sounded like you were being warned of something negative.

You don't have premonitions about something that's positive if it's a warning,

Right?

And it has evolved into something that has basically become equivalent to what scientists call precognition or scientists who are studying precognition called precognition.

So the more sort of more scientific name is precognition and the more colloquial name is premonition and so now people talk about I had a premonition that I would win the lottery so that's a positive thing for a lot of people and so there's almost no distinction but here the implication is that it's not that your subconscious mind was gathering clues that were sort of subliminal or under the sensory boundary.

It's that you were getting information from another source that is not among the five senses or is not among sort of logic and inference and memory as tools to gain information or predictions about the future.

So for example it would not be precognition to have a dream that you're gonna fall down the stairs the next day if you already know that it rained and then it got really cold now it's icy and you also have fallen down those stairs in the past.

So these these kind of things make you think okay that's actually gathering information from logic and inference and past sensory events.

It might be more likely to be a precognitive experience if you have a dream that or you have a feeling that there's a fire and you need to do something as it's there you need to do something relationshipless fire to save a child for instance and then that exact thing happens.

So that would be in the category of premonition or precognition and premonitions and precognitions they can come in dreams which they often do they can come in waking life they can come in lucid dreams they can come in just feelings and sometimes they come in feelings that you don't know you have so you can actually measure them in the body and correlate them statistically with future events without the person even knowing that that's going on.

Would pre-sentiment also be synonymous with this?

Is that something different?

Pre-sentiment,

Thanks for reminding me of that.

So my original work in this area started with working on pre-sentiment and pre-sentiment is another name for what I just mentioned which is when your body when you can measure a scientist can measure your physical changes that are correlated with future events chosen by a random number generator so you're not sensing some kind of subliminal information you actually no one on the planet knows what the next event is but your body is sensing it in some way that's correlated with the future event that's called pre-sentiment or it's okay I think I'd coined a term for it called physiological anticipatory activity and some people use that now but the most sensible name for it is pre-sentiment says that's understandable.

Well let's I wonder if we could talk a little bit about your work that occurred leading up to this book and some of the the studies that you have performed I thought because I had read through some of them before they were fascinating and the results are really fascinating can you share some of those studies that you did?

Well before I do that I'm sort of curious I want to put it in the context for you and your readers and I mean I'm sorry you and your listeners and I've had a lot of conversations with people about this before so I would like to know understand where you're coming from with your interest in this and what's interesting to you.

Well I'm interested in particular with some of the physiological research that you've done and what you've measured with some of the biofeedback so GSR stuff and I don't know if you got into EEG as well and looking at what's going on the brain when this kind of thing happens.

Yeah I did yeah sure I can talk about all that but why is that interesting to you what's what is it about that that is so interesting?

Well that's part of the theme of the podcast is to look at how consciousness and physiology kind of interface and different aspects of the way that they interface so that's an overarching theme.

Thanks that's super helpful so um so yeah so I'm really interested in using or for a while I'm less interested now but for a while I was really interested in using physiology and electrophysiology so you know EEG to figure out what's going on in the brain and in the body related to time related to events in time and I started doing that outside of this idea of precondition I started looking at EEG with audio visual signals and their synchrony and before that I was involved without EEG I was just looking at behavior psychophysics for auditory timing events so I've been interested in time before I got interested in the in the biosensing part of it but yeah I guess as a postdoc I wrote a grant that's right I wrote a grant for the Beall Foundation which is in Portugal and Porto Portugal and they've found something like 75% of the parapsychology research in the world and I got my courage up and I said I'm gonna you know apply for one of these grants and what I was looking at I applied for several of the grants and I got them and so I did a series over several years as a postdoc and let's see one of them was about just trying to see if I could train people to get better at conscious precognition so conscious precognition is different from pre-sentiment in a way because you're literally asking someone instead of just recording from their body and letting them have experiences of future events that are predictive of random number generator you're actually asking them I want you to figure out what the future events gonna be and I was horrible at that did not work then people did not get better and I trained them on heart math too I thought if they get better at heart math maybe they'll get better this that did not help so I've been very focused and interested on training precognition for a long time and my methods originally were just crap but one thing I did one of those I think I had two or three I can't remember grants but one of them was about using a pattern classifier so this is the earlier days of pattern classification machine learning to take the you know signals and I guess I was working with GSR at the time and so doing respiration no I was doing heart rate time series and to see if I could classify whether for instance someone was being this wasn't the precognition experiment whether someone was being looked at or not through closed-circuit camera the sense of being stared at type studies and that I was able to do you know statistically significantly and I was impressed by that the precognition stuff unfortunately my design I mean you learn a lot when you start studying this stuff and my design was poor and for both of the sense of being stared at and the precognition stuff there were there were problems with the design that I had to filter out when I did the analyses and to report so I never published that stuff that's sitting as conference papers they're not problems with the design that invalidate the results because the results were very interesting but there's I would not design it that way games I was actually making it harder on myself so do you want me to go down the rabbit hole of all that stuff well more of an overview of some of your interesting findings yeah okay rather than the methodology so many times I think it's really important to talk about how you fail so many times because that is how you learn that's the feedback right yeah that's the feedback that's how the universe shapes the dance and helps you understand what's really there so important findings I almost don't remember as much as failures so let me just think back what are important findings okay so so probably number one from that time period was that both in skin conductance so GSR and in heart rate there was this inverse relationship between male and female so men and women I shouldn't say male and female because they were just what they declared as their gender was men and women there was this inverse relationship between when the physiological traces when people were about to sort of win or be correct in that experiment let me explain the experiment so you can understand what I mean so in that experiment there's a computer screen and you've got four potential images chosen from the IAPS data set so this international effective data set and there were all either neutral or positive in effect and the person's job was to click on which image they think is the one that is going to be shown to them as the target so which one is the random number generator to choose and as they're doing and they get as much time as they want to do this and I have them do it 25 times and as they're doing this they're hooked up to you know skin conductance electrodes and heartbeat monitor but it's just a plasmid graph so it's just a finger monitor and the whole time and so I can separate out the traces afterwards according to whether they got it correct or not to see if they could anticipate if they were there was any difference in their physiology before correct versus incorrect troughs right because their performance is about a chance because most people aren't good at this you know this is our task predicting the future so most people aren't good at it and so the most important finding from that was that when men were so the ten seconds prior to when the random number of generator shows which of the four images was correct which was immediately after the person chose men showed this very clear arousal pattern in heart rate and in skin conductance so massive increase in skin conductance increase in heart rate great women are showing the opposite so they're about to win or be correct they're going down in skin conductance it was less clear and heart rate I remember correctly and I thought that was interesting and then I started to ask myself so that was significant but then I said well I don't know if I believe this because this could be explained by other sort of doesn't matter technical things so that I but to solve the technical thing problem I just looked at the very first trial and that was important and a new thing to do in the field because you couldn't claim that because it was all because of whatever happened on the previous trial because there was no previous trial so I just looked at all men and all women and I could clearly see that it was even more significant I mean like I could clearly see the difference there was a gender interaction and I was like all right there's something that's going on there's this gender difference thing happening so that got me interested in just asking the question and then I oh and then I had another group of women and I saw that again then I thought I'm gonna train myself I'm gonna do this I did the test 625 times and looked at my skin conductance and I looked like the female or women that pattern which I thought was interesting because I'm sort of gender and be because of being in sciences that happens where you basically you learn about being both genders and are for many people I don't know if that's true for anyone else certainly for me so I was like well I guess I'm I have this trade of like calming down before I'm getting exciting before I fail and calming down before I succeed right um so I'm fascinated by that and then I started saying well what is you know what is going on for other people in this field this was about I finally believed that there was this pre-segment thing that I'd read about for years I talked with Dean Raden I looked at the research I was impressed with it but to see it in my own hands that turned on a light for me I mean even though I'd had pre-cognitive experiences since I was a kid and I knew that time wasn't working the way that people were talking about it doesn't matter when you see the data in a controlled experiment in your own hands and it's right out there for you to see it's it's it's you know I had a mentor who once said then you've swallowed the wolf the wolf is now inside of you and it will eat you know and it will eat and it will ask you to do more experiments and it will basically control the rest of your life and that's what happened so I saw that and I said oh now yeah yeah that's really what it feels like and so I said okay now I'm gonna ask a bunch of other scientists to show me their data and I'm gonna look through the literature and I ended up doing this big meta analysis with Jessica at UC Irvine and again named Petrizio Tresoldi who's a pre-cognition pre-centimidate researcher at University of Cordova in Italy and so we worked together to create this meta analysis site I mostly drove it forward and I wrote it and then they helped and it was it got a lot of press because we were very conservative in the statistics and it was difficult to find problems with it and some people did find problems with it and then we talked with them about it and had a nice collegial interaction but it was all very collegial and conservative really from a scientific point of view which is I think why it did well so that was the beginning of my launching my okay I guess I'm gonna study pre-cognition now well let's let's fast-forward into the book and so there seems to be a few components of the book one being establishing somewhat scientific research well validated the existence of pre-cognition and that it's it's available right and there's another component in training people which is what you started to develop into what you were saying so let's talk about the training now in the book and what are some of your methods for doing that yes I'll tell you I tried and failed to train people at what I call short-term pre-cognition which is this in the next few seconds or minutes try to predict X right the conscious pre-cognition I also tried and failed to teach people unconscious precognition in the short term and then I thought well I mean kind of an idiot because while I'm focused on the short-term precognition actually the most useful kind of precognition is long-term precognition like obviously if you have a longer lead time for something you can know you could potentially do things to steer towards or away from something so I thought well that not only am I being an idiot in that way and also being an idiot in the following way which is there were a group of people who for decades have been training people to do long-term conscious precognition and I was ignoring their work but that was not cool so I was like all right now you know you know it's the process right so I started looking at the remote viewing world and I realized what they're doing for the most part not always but what they're doing when they do it sort of with it in a well-controlled place is they're doing controlled precognition I mean so I don't know do you know what your listeners know about remote viewing yeah they're there I think some of them we haven't crossed that topic in the podcast but we will be talking to Russell Targ in a couple weeks so this is a great and I meant to ask you anyways about how this overlaps with and differs from remote viewing yeah so great so let's just quickly define remote viewing and then talk about the overlap difference okay so remote viewing people will define it in different ways and they'll get strong differences of opinion about what the definition of remote viewing is so I'm gonna give you the most vague definition that covers I think most of the categories and let the people who argue about it argue about it but so I would classify as remote viewing a situation where you the person does not have access to any information about a target a potential target except for something like a number or what they call a tag which is just a way to identify the target so if I said to you three eight nine six seven four that's your tag as a remote viewer your job would be to take that write it on a piece of paper that's all you get and then to have the intention to sketch or write out and or write out everything that you think is coming to you that's appropriate for the question that is associated with the tag that you don't know so the question could be describe everything in this picture the question could be describe this conduct who's sitting you know at a particular jail cell the question could be described the year 2027 in the country Zimbabwe in the most detail you can so you know I do what the question is anything in the world right and your job is to train yourself to get into a state of accessing that information now so let's call that remote viewing for the purposes of this conversation so now what is controlled precognition so what controlled precognition is I'm saying a subset of remote viewing where the target that your tag is associated with the question that your tag is associated with is about a future event that is controlled precognition so it's not about you know Stephen Schwartz has done amazing work with anthropology using remote viewing they found all sorts of treasure using remote viewing that could be thought of as a future event in that they go find it in the future but it could also be thought of as a past event because you could sort of mentally time travel to the past and get the information right so these kind of weird sort of when you get in this community of thinking about this stuff you start arguing well is it telepathy or you know okay so this is a this control precognition is about the target is not known by anyone until the future right so that's really really defined control precognition then there's a looser control precognition someone might not know the target but they're not telling you but the best most rigorous is no one on the planet knows what the target is in some of future and it works pretty well with people who are start out good at it and for people who don't start out good at it it seems that they improve now if you talk to Joe McMonigal who is one of the world's best remote viewers he doesn't think they improve but he's sort of not counting the part where he trains them he actually teaches control precognition to people and he calls it remote viewing but it's essentially what I'm calling control precognition he trains people and they do get better but he says well they just needed the training well I call that getting better so so there's I mean and Ross Targ I'm sure we'll talk with you about his ESP trainer out so yeah people can get better at this stuff and there's a certain sort of distribution of skill in the population it's just like with music you can train someone to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on the piano but they might become a concert pianist right it was so what just out of curiosity what is that distribution of skill we don't know and out of curiosity I would like to find out and that's part of why that is part of why I worked with Dean Raden and others at the Institute of Noetic Sciences on creating the PsiQ app PSIQ which is in the App Store for like three more days and then we're gonna change it to the name PSI3 for various reasons so anyway you should be able to find it at one place or the other one name or the other in the App Store but it's and also why we created the premonition code website so with this book coming up which is called premonition code the website is called the premonition code and and Teresa my co-author and I Teresa Chung decided that we wanted to create a website that would allow people to practice control precognition and also screen for people who are really good at it so we have like a Hall of Fame for people who are really good at it and stuff so that that that website happened arises in the world on October 1st first right yeah yeah so so I'm very curious about it that and no one knows the answer Dean Raden and Iones is also super curious about it we're all very interested in finding out you know what are the personality traits what are the gender age differences that correlate with this kind of stuff what are how much is the spread in the population you know all these things are unanswered and we only now have the technology to start answering these questions can you perhaps talk about characteristics defining characteristics of people who are very good at this yeah it can I can but I just want to sort of caveat that beforehand which is whatever if what I'm about to say strikes people as oh wait I'm not that way so maybe I'm not good to be good at this then then don't listen to what I have to say because what everything that I'm about to say is based on several studies but not many and with probably not enough people to make strong conclusions and their weak correlations so now I'm going to say some things so one is it looks like creativity having a lot of creative output and creative impulse may be very linked to your ability to do a control precognition one of the first people who didn't control precognition at the time even before it was called remote viewing was an artist who was totally like over-the-top artistic fun-boying amazing and just kick ass figuring out targets and providing useful information but that's that's just anecdotal but actually studies you know across populations show this so this is interesting they do show it more for things like telepathy than precognition fewer studies have been done on precognition for this but you know it's kind of a similar bag um let's see there's meditation so people who meditate in fact there was a great study with Tibetan monks that was replicated so now two studies showing that the longer the duration of meditation in your life the more you're good at control precognition or or conscious precognition which is what we did in that experiment which was actually the short term in that experiment people just got better and you could correlate the nice correlation with hours of meditation now it's not clear whether that's age because them you know especially with monks the more they meditate they are so that needs to be looked at but there's something there so we don't see that in the population I don't see a general like done studies with a couple thousand people and with the short-term precognition and you do not see like an increase in performance with age so let's see there's meditation there's the characters personality trait of openness and extraversion I actually trust the openness result more than the extra version result but they've both been shown in multiple studies with not just spontaneous precognitive experiences because kind of who cares if you have a spontaneous precognitive experience we don't really know if that was precognition because we're not in the lab you know but actually correlations between the personality traits of openness and extraversion and performance in the lab on precognitive tasks so the more extroverted the more open the more likely to perform well on those tasks and that's been replicated a couple times and there's I mean I'm an introvert even though I can play an extrovert on TV and I'm pretty decent at precognition and there's plenty of other people these are again these are not like high correlations these are general trends that are replicated okay so part of this book is a is sort of sourcing sourcing just how how well are people at large doing at this practice of precognition and and there is a sort of global precognitive experiment that you're running along with this if you can talk about that that'd be that'd be great yeah so the experiment is about we believe it's the first of its kind so let me take you through a standard controlled precognition trial the way it's done now and so you can understand the problem with it and we're fixing that problem with this experiment and I'm really excited about that because I'm all about fixing the problem so um so a standard controlled precognition trial now that might be done online is you have a person get to their place of centering or word is that they get this information however they do that so there's a million ways to do that right probably one for each person so more than a million and you have them associate the tag you know with whatever does they're coming through and they're writing this down on pages of blank paper and then when they're done and they're like great I'm done different studies will do it different ways but generally you'd like to get in your printer you scan it and then you have to upload it before you go before you move ahead and then some of that there's two ways to do it after that either someone can judge the relationship between what you just submitted and what the target is right and whatever that is or another way to do it sort of on a more massive scale online is the person self judges so for instance you show them two pictures or four pictures or four videos or whatever it is and you say which one of these was your target based on what you get and the person chooses I was doing a lot about trees and when there was outdoors and it really seemed like the breeze was coming and so I'm gonna choose the one that looks like a park because that seems most like mine and then they're told okay you were great you got right or here's your picture you know and they show the park or owner you're wrong it was the bicycle that was by the side of the road and you got that wrong and here's your picture so that's how normally it's done and there's a place called the applied precognition project by a wonderful guy who created was created by wonderful guy Marty Rosenblatt who does it that way and he gets good results I mean he uses his results to actually trade in the stock market and he makes good money right so he gets good results doing that but people complain about the viewers the people who are doing the control precognition complain and I complain too to him that if you're precognitive and you're gonna show me four pictures from which I have to choose I'm gonna get elements of each of those pictures into my precognition happens every time for me it happens every time I get all of them instead of I'm not as skilled as Joe McMonagle who we get all of them and also know which one was the target too because he could look at both places in time I'm not that skilled right so I just get bits of each of them and I'm like right I can't choose right so what we're trying to do with this experiment is to move the field forward by giving people the option of not having to see the pictures but also self-judge so it can be on a massive scale and so the way we're doing that is each time you do a trial it takes you through the steps there's six steps of getting the information yada yada takes you through the steps gets you into the place you know reminds you of what it says in the book so that you can get into the place of where you're getting the best information that you can at that time and then it shows you instead of two pictures it shows you two graphs and the graphs represent the contents of two pictures but you're not seeing the pictures so it's way more analytical it doesn't enter the symbolic part that an actual image would and so you know on one side of the graph you'll see oh there's a there's a line over here that's indicating that there's a lot of people in this image and that the image is mostly people and then there's a little bit of water okay and then this other graph is showing me that it's mostly human-based structures and there's almost no natural elements so these are very different so always the two graphs we choose are very different and then the person's job is to look at what they did and say now is it most like the people in the water or is it most like the human-made structural elements oh it's most like human-made structural elements so I'm gonna choose that one and then they get shown the picture and they only get shown one picture and it's always the correct picture so that is just a simple change that we did to try to get it so that more people can do better at this task without the confusion of having to be an expert precogger to sort out things in time but there is and you do have a way to sort of judge skill level right in this and so give us an idea of what might be the most advanced the most advanced precog ask well the most advanced precog so there's a couple things one is just statistics so essentially if you do this a hundred times if you're at a rate above chance of X then we already know you're good right and you're already so we only put people in the Hall of Famer who are statistically reliable positive precogs we call them positive precogs by the way because we're supporting this idea that you can use your precognition for positive things in the world there are also negative ways to use precognition so we're basically stressing the positive here we're not stressing emphasizing but in terms of the sort of the more granular like looking in more detail what people are doing besides the simple statistics the hardest targets are targets with letters and numbers so it's my from my own experience too if there's a target with letters and numbers I usually either don't pick up on the letters or numbers or I think there's letters or numbers but I don't know what they are but people can train themselves to go okay there's letters and numbers okay that can be hard all right so let's let them come to me and some people can get better at that so the people who are really good will not only get that there's letters and numbers but they won't be scared off by that and they'll learn probably over time or maybe they'll be de novo right out of the gate I don't know be able to let those come to them and actually report like a license plate so some of the images are like license plates or combinations or things like that so those people with that kind of skill if they're consistent like you know we're gonna call them yeah and you guys make a point to talk about dreams and dreams being sort of a training ground almost for developing this skill precognition can you talk a little bit about that and its importance yeah I mean so you know most people in the world the only in the Western world actually let me just sort of change what I was gonna say for a second most people in the Western world the only sort of consistent relationship they have with anything outside of everyday waking concept consciousness is the dream state and that's accepted like it's not taboo to say that you had a dream last night so a lot of stuff can come out through dreams that can't come out in other ways it's unacceptable to come out in other ways but it can come out in a dream because it's everyone agrees that you don't have control over your dreams and and it's this other state and stuff and so we have that much of a cultural taboo on different states of consciousness that the dream state I think is where a lot of stuff comes through because that's the only opening yeah well okay you know so that's why we emphasize dreams is like great you've got a crack you know and you've got a crack into this sort of accessing this information now how can you start really drawing from it and setting your intention to get information from that state and then you could open it up a little and to ask how can I get myself into the state of getting information about future events when I'm awake and I have a pen in my hand and a piece of paper so that's another step how can I get myself into that state without too much time so I don't have to take half an hour meditating how can I get myself into that state in five minutes or one minute or zero minutes so that's another step and now once I reliably can get into that state and I can use it for good and I'm and I am you know we talk about ethics in the book I am I'm working my ethics I'm conscious of why I'm doing what I'm doing you know whether it's just for my own practice whether it's to help someone whether it's a missing person or whatever it is you're doing you're conscious of why you're doing what you're doing how can I do it better so I can give better information to whomever I'm working with right so is this sort of staged process that the one of the reasons we wrote the book is there's so much fear about this stuff and so much of it has been linked traditionally with witchcraft and and these things that have been denigrated and called you know Satan's work etc but we want to say you know here's another way to look at it you can do positive work in the world by helping people move toward positive events that will support their life and away from negative events and you can do that for your own life and let's talk about how to do that instead of letting the sort of blank space of taboo and fear and confusion fill up with the stories that people hear about how that's the devil's work yada yada yada it's um it's already been used controlled precognition has been used for decades to help you know corporations law enforcement intelligence organizations have been using it for decades to help so I'm not saying they haven't been using it to hurt right what I'm saying is that it can be used to help so we ought to frame a culture and a community around helpful use of this instead of letting it wander into the wasteland of taboo yeah we do have a fair amount of meditators listening and I wonder if you could speak to how if you have that practice yeah you could potentially incorporate precognitive skill skill work I mean a lot of yeah sure so a lot of meditators just have precognition happen to that more and more the more they meditate I mean you start to notice it spontaneously precognitive dreams are just precognitive feelings like I mean because you're paying attention I think essentially I'm more you might notice the thought that comes up and says I'm not gonna take that highway home today I'm gonna take this other highway and I don't know why and I'm just gonna do it because that's what's in the flow right you just might notice that and then you find out later about a bad accident that you know the timing is suggest that you might have been in that accident you think great I don't need to find out whether I was right I taking that other route you know so that willingness is sort of like of the ego that kind of wants to verify things when you're dealing with spontaneous precognition is actually really helpful and to just accept the intuition coming up that builds this relationship between the conscious and the non-conscious so you know part of meditation all these non-conscious things come up that were previously not conscious and so some of the things that come up is information that you can now use so you're developing this relationship where you're starting to trust this information so that's really valuable and incorporating it is I mean it's almost no effort to incorporate it right so it's just like if you start a positive precognition practice what you're doing control precognition let's say daily or weekly it becomes part of a meditation so now I just meditate get ready to get myself into my state do my control precognition and each day that I do that goes better just like with meditation each day that I do that goes better than a day that I don't because it's a practice and building this connection and it's a practice and listening and receiving and discerning and all the great stuff that's in meditation there's not a lot of difference yeah well it's so fascinating too because I remember a moment talking to Dean Radin about I don't know if we were talking about precognition per se if we were talking more about the ren the the photon through the slit experiment thing and he was making a point of saying that mindfulness in particular this that particular style of meditation lends itself well rather than something like a very quiet mind deep immersive you know into the sort of into the all or however you want to term it so instead of practicing mindfulness where you're tagging you're noting you're noting you're noting you're noting in the disregarding there's sort of like a noting in a tag that you would add on to a piece of data where you're now going okay it that's it pretty cut yeah sort it into my pre cog folder you have my bin so then I wonder how does one then to distinguish between let's call it like subconscious and super conscious data that may be coming from one place or the other that is sort of like well I'm just processing in the background it's you know sorting information and my body's just doing its thing right and other is like yeah yeah so how do you see that it's practice so what happened that's why you need some sort of that's why we're building this online tool right so that's why you need something to give you feedback so once you get your feedback of the picture of the park you can go through everything you wrote down and you can you remember oh yeah I had this whole sensation of like this moving mechanism there's nothing about the moving mechanism in this part so whatever whatever feeling it was that maybe want to put down the moving mechanism in the future I'm gonna tag that with maybe this isn't quite pretty cognitive right but then you know here I drew a picture of a daisy and there's a little kid playing over here and I had this feeling of playfulness and look in the picture of the park there's kids playing like oh well that really came through this a certain kind of clarity that and unattachment or whatever it is for you that is your tag for this stuff and that reminds me of last time when this other thing came to you with clarity and not attachment and so you just it's just it's just learning with the feedback the wonderful thing about it is it's almost like it's almost like meditation with feedback right because the outside universe you're not alone right the outside universe says no the answer is this and then you get to go back and go if that was the answer look at all the steps and look at all the things that fit and how I felt with those and look at the things that didn't and I swear you'll find consistencies where like for instance for me when I think when I find myself thinking well this can't be right this is ridiculous I almost always have just a very excellent hit because my ego is just it's like my superconscious is saying I don't know if it's my superconscious or not some part of me what's just who cares some part of me is saying here's some important information and another part of me has decided that even though whatever the target is can be anything in the world for some reason that one thing is ridiculous yeah which is in itself ridiculous right so it's like as soon as I hear that I'm like I am golden I feel can one use emotions in some way to track this so one level you're sort of observing well this is this kind of has an emotional hit for you I would imagine because when something is that ridiculous you you almost it's almost an aversion experience right you're almost initially until you learn to love it right until you learn that's a good sign but is what can you talk about emotions in relationship to tracking this it's all in there what I can say is it's a self-discovery process that I think is unique for each person which is why you need the feedback so like if I try to tell you I can tell you what it is for me but some other person is gonna ask the exact opposite for me and they're right you know so it's like emotions are in there sort of sensory stuff is in there like oh I hear this I hear the sound of a whistling bird right before something's really important smells can be in there I have the word yellow often comes up and I have to write it down before the next thing and the next thing after yellow is important like a little flag like a highlighter literal highlighter actually just thought the highlighter now I finally get the joke that's the other thing is it's funny for me anyway I know I'm on the right track when there's little things that I don't understand and when I see the target it's like a joke like there's a pun that comes through and I'm thinking of something else but like it's exactly what the thing is except the opposite meaning of the word and it's just like it's just a joyful connection with the part of me that I don't normally on a daily basis sort of calm myself and it's just wanting to be seen and known and it's a delightful way to do that but I just got the friggin joke about the yellow well good I'm glad that I'm glad that my feedback was helpful in your process you you spoke in an interview and I really love this and I hope we can talk about this now this concept of the long body as a metaphor of understanding the mechanics of talking to aspects of yourself throughout time we gotta love that it's one of my favorite things to talk about and now I'm all sad because we only have a few minutes left should you want me to talk about that if can we fit it in and we're doing it right now yeah okay good so the idea of the long bodies this or is it's built on a spatial metaphor I think it was the Iroquois but I forget Native American tribe in the in the United States in the Midwest and if I remember correctly and I don't want to mess this up then I'm afraid I'll mess this up so I'll just say what I think is true and it could be wrong my my memory of reading that stuff is that there's a that if I were if I were in that tribe my long body would include myself it would include this water bottle it would include this computer it would include all the tools that I use on a daily basis and it would include where I lived and it would include some of the people of my tribe with whom I'm very connected so it's a spatial long body so really there's my small body my short body which is just this and then the long body is this more encompassing thing whatever is entangled with me kind of thing so it's temporal long body is what I'm fascinated by so taking that metaphor and putting it in time and looking at ourselves over time like we do like physicists look at particles and they talk about a world line of a particle so the particle is born let's pretend the particle is born here and in space-time it goes all the different different places and it lasts for millions of years you know it's all over the place in space-time and then let's pretend it ends here this is the long body this is called the world line of that particle and I have part of the work of doing controlled precognition and really thinking about precognition and time travel and these kind of things and how time works for years and years has made me have a different perspective on my life and I think it's a valuable perspective I'm writing a new book about it because I think it's really valuable to use and that is to look at your life as a world line so it's not just me when I say oh I want this or I want that that's really focused on right now this me and just this small me but what about looking at the whole world line of you and what kindness can you give what compassion can you give to the forward and backward directions in your world line of view and one of those pieces of kindness is to bring it with you this is all of me I had this amazing dream I think it was in my 20s yes it was it was my after I was 21 years old sometime between 21 and 30 and I was doing this with my hands because there was a point for this it's a visual point and it's that I was in this room and a house I grew up in and there were all these versions of me going all the way back to babyhood and forward in time to very old and these women and they were all me it was very clear and we all had these glowing hearts like you know these glowing hearts and and just without words we all knew that what was going to happen is we were lining up like beads on a string and we were all collapsing into one and that's what made me start thinking about oh I get it like they're all in me right now they're all in this now and they're all they will all be in that now and they were all in that now and it opens up so many possibilities and it's very relaxing Wow yeah we could we could keep going with that and I love you mentioned one other practice that I think is useful for the listeners to take away I think you called it love banking because it sort of dovetails into into this where you can then project into other timelines yep from your current one so it's a feed-forward feedback type system that is serving every one of you every every when yes and I have the delight of talking yeah love banking is I think the name of my book we'll see but it's this idea that look if you have extra love sometime in your life if you're feeling was extra goodness spill some over into these other times and if you're feeling a lack of love and connection and joy receive it from the other times that have the extra because they're all of you right and it opens us up to such potential and possibility just in the moment because you don't have to just be in the circumstances that are surrounding you right here because you have all these other use inside of you so that's awesome but I had the amazing experience of talking with Bruce Dahmer who I found out also had a similar relationship with these his past and future selves and when he was a kid he was sorry so who is he he works with NASA does origin of life research and artificial intelligence and mission planning stuff and he he has a way to put himself into what most people would call a psychedelic state but it's he doesn't without drugs and he received information about things that he then builds technically he's very typically adapted also philosophically adopt but he as a child I think he was ten or eleven and he saw his future selves line up and he said okay we're gonna make an agreement right now that you only send back to the littler selves love and positive feelings because they're doing the best they can and they made that agreement he made that agreement with his future selves and it has served him well because every time you can he sends back positive love to his past selves and one of the things I work with people on when they're going through hard times you know just as friends or something another therapist or something but just because I suggest this because I'm I like to suggest this is to first send the first step is to from now go all the way back mentally go all the way back to when you're a baby and send all those selves love so that's the first step is to give out all that love to yourself and then the second step is to now look forward and receive the love that's gonna come from the future and the reason you need to do it in that order is because it's hard to receive the love from the future until you've had the experience of all the overwhelming love that you can feel for your earlier selves and then you start to trust yourself you go wait a minute I can do this I just sent a bunch of love back to the past now I could receive that because I know in the future I'll be able to do that right and then it's a wonderful practice well thank you for that thank you for that your time the book the premonition code October 1st is the release actually but 15th the website is on the first we had to do it that way for various reasons okay so the website is live on the first well you can go there now and actually input your email get some updates and excellent good luck good luck with everything Julia thank you Jonathan you asked great questions and it was a delightful conversation

Reviews

Fascinating conversation! I’ll be looking for the website now. Thank you so much for sharing this interview here.

Must listen again, this is fascinating!

Remarkable. I have to ponder these concepts. Thank you 😊💕🙏🏻

Fascinating topic! I’m hopeful because I meditate daily. thank you!

Great and informative interview
Thanks

This is an excellent interview, especially the last part. I would like to hear more about “the long body.”

It’s exciting when science is involved with what has been viewed as esoteric, it brings spirituality into the mainstream.

I had what seemed to be a precognitve knowing that creativity would be associated with precognitve ability. Awareness of the nonlinearity of what is called 'time', that is to say nowness, is how I prefer to think of creativity. Awareness of nowness creates creativity so to speak.

Looking forward to the book😂

So interesting!!