Parenting In Quarantine

Parenting isn’t easy. Showing up is. Your greatest impact begins right where you are. One of the very best scientific predictors for how any child turns out - in terms of happiness, academic success, leadership skills, and meaningful relationships - is whether at least one adult in their life has consistently shown up for them. Every child needs to feel the Four S's: Safe, Seen, Soothed and Secure.

Transcript

I am Anna Seawolf and this is Authentic Parenting,

A podcast about personal development in the context of parenting,

Where I explore how you can find more calm connection and join parenting through the process of self-discovery and inner growth with a trauma-informed lens.

Today we are talking about parenting in quarantine.

How are you surviving?

Have you created some kind of schedule for your family?

Have you dealt with how you preserve routines?

Have you found ways to have some kind of structure and rituals?

Have you fallen into a rhythm?

My guest today is Dr.

Tina Payne Bryson.

She is the co-author with Dan Siegel of two New York Times bestsellers,

The Whole Brain Child and No Drama Discipline,

Each of which has been translated into dozens of languages,

As well as the Yes Brain and their new book,

The Power of Showing Up.

She is the founder and executive director of the Center for Connection,

A multidisciplinary clinical practice and of the Play Strong Institute,

A center devoted to the study,

Research and practice of play therapy through a neurodevelopmental lens.

Dr.

Bryson keynotes conferences and conducts workshops for parents,

Educators and clinicians all over the world,

And she frequently consults with schools,

Businesses and other organizations.

The most important part of her bio,

She says,

Is that she's a mom to her three boys.

You can learn more about Dr.

Bryson at tinabryson.

Com.

In this interview,

We talked about the power of showing up,

The four S's,

Feeling seen,

Safe,

Suited and secure,

The importance of raising resilient,

Capable and responsible children by engaging them in the discipline process,

Checking in with our own expectations,

Letting go of pressure and truly showing up for our kids.

If you haven't already,

Be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts to see behind the scenes and keep up with my life and see how I am surviving this difficult time.

Follow me on Instagram,

Authentic.

Parenting.

Podcast.

And of course,

For show notes,

Contact info and additional resources,

Visit authenticparenting.

Com.

And now please enjoy this interview with Dr.

Tina Payne Bryson.

Tina,

Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me today.

Firstly,

I would love to know how you personally stay calm,

Sane and safe and grounded during this uncertain time.

What do you personally do?

You have children,

You are human.

You're an expert and a professional,

But you are also a mom and among many other things.

So what has worked for you?

Well,

First of all,

I want to say my kids are older.

They're 13,

16 and 20 and they're really pretty independent learners.

So when it's time for them to do their online classes,

They kind of get to it and they're pretty good at keeping themselves occupied.

So for those of you who are listening,

Who have really little kids who are climbing on you all day long,

I remember those days,

But that's not the time I'm in now.

So what's really keeping me grounded and my favorite part of the day is the evenings,

Having dinner together with all.

One of my sons is a college student and he's moved back home and to have all my children around the table and for us to have dinner together and conversations.

And then we've been playing games every night and just laughing and laughing.

And that laughter is so powerful for all of us.

It relieves stress,

It releases nervous system arousal.

So as long as I'm getting sleep and I'm getting time outside,

I find that when I'm on the computer too much working,

I start to not feel great emotionally.

I start to just feel like I need something different,

Like a restlessness.

And so then I know it's time to go outside.

And so nothing revolutionary,

But sleep,

Movement,

And then really fun times,

Just having fun and delighting and sharing joy,

Laughing with people.

Those are the three things that I think make me feel really grounded right now.

What about you?

What's helping you,

Anna?

Well,

It's interesting you mentioned those things.

I was going to say,

Wow,

So similar to what I have been doing.

I am not working as much as I used to,

And I've been going outside.

That has been helping me a lot,

Twice a day or three times a day even.

I just go outside.

I live in a very nice nature rich environment and walking and just talking on the phone or just walking.

I haven't been listening to podcasts,

Which used to be one of my favorite things to do,

But I am addicted to silly videos now.

My friend shared one Instagram profile of one of these,

I don't know what they're called.

They do funny things with their bodies.

He's an Asian artist,

I guess.

And I was laughing like crazy yesterday.

My friend says,

This is not that funny.

I'm like,

You don't understand.

I find this funny.

So laughter has been,

I guess maybe at this time,

I've been trying to focus on creating fun and laughter and not being so tied up in structure,

Routine.

It's all gone completely.

And I've been watching movies on Netflix with friends.

I mean,

They watch in their homes.

I watch in mine.

And so we discussed the next day.

And I've been jokingly saying,

My daughter is 12.

So like your children,

She's very independent in terms of logging in and doing her work and everything.

She's very responsible.

And I've been jokingly saying,

Oh my God,

This is the worst parent I've been all those years because I am practicing remote parenting.

I am very hands off.

Only it seems like at dinner time,

We get together,

We sit down and we're together.

We truly show interest in one another.

The rest of the day,

Everybody is by themselves doing their own thing.

You know?

Yeah.

Well,

I think those of you who have little kids at home,

You know when you're with them every second,

It's hard to delight in them a lot of the day.

It's so much.

So I think that's lovely.

And I think the idea of laughter and play is so important.

We know that that's how kids process information.

It's how they build resilience.

And so we need some play and laughter in our lives as well.

I think the other thing that's important about relaxing the structure and the expectations is that any time a parent or a teacher has an expectation of a child that they can't consistently meet,

It causes a lot of chronic stress.

And it causes for both parties,

But I'm particularly thinking about the child.

And it also gives the child a repeated experience where they feel like they're a failure.

And we see this a lot with kids who have learning challenges or who are having asynchronous development where maybe they're gifted cognitively,

But their emotional regulation and some of their social skills may be lagging a little bit behind developmentally.

And I think it's an unrealistic expectation for all of us as parents to think that our kids are going to sit and have a full school day and put in the same amount of time.

And you've seen all those color-coded schedules that went around.

And when I look at those,

They make me feel so much stress.

And one of the therapists who works with me at the Center for Connection,

Which is my interdisciplinary clinical practice that I have here in Southern California,

She has three children.

And so she's working from home.

She's got three kids,

Two of whom are not neurotypical kids.

And she said,

I created this whole schedule.

And she said,

By day two,

She said,

This is not sustainable.

I've been taking Tylenol like every six hours.

She's like,

I'm exhausted.

And I remember reading a New York Times parenting article just in the last week or so where there was a mom saying that her daughter had had 47 quesadillas since the quarantine started.

And I thought,

That's a really good parenting approach right now.

It's like,

It's okay if you're having 47 quesadillas right now.

And if we create unrealistic expectations for ourselves and our kids,

Everyone's going to be unhappy.

And I think with really young kids,

If you've got kids in elementary school,

Just an hour or two a day of academic instruction is plenty.

And middle schoolers,

Two to three hours,

And high schoolers,

Three to four hours,

That's plenty.

And honestly,

Because they're not having the social interactions and they're not having all of the advisory periods and all that,

That really is fairly similar to the amount of academic concentrated learning time that they're having when they're at school.

So yeah,

Watching our expectations is a huge piece.

And I think that's an important one.

Yes.

My daughter has been having boxed ramen.

That's how I know that I've been doing my remote parenting job very well.

Right.

Yes.

They do love that ramen.

I don't know what it is about it,

But they love that.

They do.

Yes.

I have loosened all expectations around screen time as well.

I was recommending this on my Instagram as well because another mom told me,

Oh,

I can't do this call with you today because I don't want to put my children in front of the TV and all of that.

I said,

Listen,

It's not the time to worry about that.

I mean,

Screens are what's making us to stay connected with other people right now.

Right.

Right.

I think it's a great,

For sure.

I've relaxed mine and I've advised other parents to do the same.

Again,

It matters how they're using it.

If they're spending hours and hours on social media where they're looking at,

It's funny,

There's a lot of studies that show that when kids look,

Especially adolescents look at social media and they see what other people's lives look like compared to theirs,

That it can actually create a lot of anxiety and depression.

But everyone's kind of doing nothing right now.

So I'm not concerned so much about that comparison,

But I think that it's how we use it.

Obviously if your kid's sitting and watching pornography,

That's going to be really different than if they're,

Like my kid had a guitar lesson virtually yesterday on the screen time and then he watched a couple of episodes of The Office.

Oh my gosh.

Is your child like my child?

Oh,

They love The Office.

And then he spent probably 30 minutes looking at different basketball tennis shoes online.

And then he sent me this link,

Just these shoes,

And he was like,

How many likes do I have to get on Instagram for you to buy these for me?

And I was like,

I don't care how many likes you get on Instagram,

But you can do chores and earn money to buy them for yourself.

But I think that how they're using it is really important.

But I also think it's an opportunity to move to a place,

Particularly with kids who are like eight and above,

To involve them in a collaborative way to say,

How much screen time do you think is working for you right now under these circumstances?

Do you feel like you need a limit or do you feel like you're monitoring that pretty well?

To kind of have a reflective dialogue around it so that we're sort of helping them reflect and be intentional about how they're spending their time.

And if you're coming upon your kid and they've been on the screen for a while,

It's to have them pause whatever they're doing and just have them check in with themselves.

Say,

Hey,

You've been on here a little while.

Do you want to just do a check in?

How are you feeling right now?

Do you feel like you might feel better if you got up and moved your body for a little while or you changed gears?

What's your body and your emotions telling you that you need right now?

So kind of giving them some practice,

Monitoring themselves and being problem solvers about how they want to spend their time.

I know Christine Carter who wrote the book The New Adolescence that just came out tells this great story about how she has stepdaughters and then she has her own daughters.

And with her own daughters who were teenagers,

She was saying,

Hey,

It's late,

Go to bed.

You need to get a good night's sleep.

But with her stepdaughters,

With whom she was trying to build relationship with,

She was doing more of a coaching model where she was saying,

Hey,

I'm noticing it's late.

What's your plan for getting a good night's sleep tonight?

And then she realized that was a much more effective way to interact with her kids as well.

And I love and have always practiced that type of parenting with older kids because it makes them use their prefrontal cortex.

It makes them be the problem solvers.

And especially when it comes to discipline,

I feel like there's a massive mental load for us as parents where we're like,

Gosh,

What should I do to respond to this misbehavior?

How do I do now?

What do I give them a punishment or how do I help them make things right?

We're trying to figure it out.

And I think it's so great to have our kids like to say,

I know you know this wasn't okay.

So I want you to come up with a way to make things right.

I want you to figure out what's going to happen next and then come and present that to me and put the mental load on them to have to think it through and use their prefrontal cortex.

Amen.

Amen.

You're speaking my language.

I think I love you even more than before.

I talk about this a lot on the podcast,

Engaging children in the discipline process and enlisting them always,

Asking them questions,

Making them part of the process as opposed to us taking charge always and creating dependency.

Let's honor the autonomy need.

And they rise up to the occasion.

They take charge.

It's so amazing when we do that.

It's great.

I love this point.

I cannot be,

I can't highlight enough that this is what you're saying.

Well,

I think we have to remember too that the brain develops what it gets practice doing.

So when your kid is really little and you're reading books to them about feelings and about how this,

She looks sad,

Look at her face.

As we're reading those kinds of books,

We're actually activating the parts of their brain that read emotions and build empathy.

And throughout development,

If we want them to be good problem solvers,

We need to give them practice solving problems.

If we want them to be resilient in the face of dealing with a really difficult situation or difficult emotions,

We let them feel an experience and we're right there with them.

We say,

I'm not going to fix this for you.

Or like right now,

We can't fix what's happening with the coronavirus.

We can't fix it.

And so our job isn't to bubble wrap them and protect them from things,

But rather to walk with them through it and to say,

This is really hard.

You're really sad.

You're not getting to be with your friends at school or you're missing out on all these important things you were looking forward to.

That's so disappointing.

And you might be grieving right now and I'm right here with you.

And we allow them to feel and to sit in it.

But if we want our kids to be better at something,

We need to help them get practice doing it.

And that's really,

I think,

What discipline is all about.

In No Drama Discipline,

Dan Siegel and I really talk about that behavior is communication and your kids are telling you the areas they need practice in,

Skill building and better strategies.

And so the example,

One example I give of that is when my eighth grader came to me on a Sunday night at like six o'clock p.

M.

And said,

Hey,

Can you take me to the craft store?

And you know why he needed to do that,

Right?

He's not a crafter.

He had a school project that was due the next morning.

And I was really mad at him at the time because I felt like it was so disrespectful of my time and he just assumed I could drop everything.

And he waited until the very last minute when he had goofed off playing football with his friends all weekend.

But a couple of days later,

I went,

Oh,

He told me something.

He was like,

Hey,

Mom.

I mean,

Obviously not directly,

But his behavior said,

Hey,

Mom,

You know all those executive function skills that make me think about how much time a project is going to take and how many days ahead I should plan for to what materials I might need and how long it will take me to do the project.

I don't have those fully locked and loaded yet.

And mom,

You know all those things about delaying gratification and doing what's responsible because I'd rather be with my peers because they're the most important thing to me developmentally.

I haven't really gotten that down either.

And so I could be mad at him and throw a consequence at him,

But that's not going to help him change his behavior.

So instead I can say,

Okay,

He just told me what skills he doesn't have yet.

And so it's my job instead of doing something to him,

I need to teach him.

So what that meant was that on Fridays we would sit down and look at his planner and see what he had coming up.

And then we would have that reflective conversation I was just talking about to say,

Okay,

How much time do you think this homework is going to take you this weekend?

Is there anything you're going to need?

What do you have coming up next week?

And we would have those conversations where I would lead him,

But the weight was on him to do that processing and to think it through.

And so then he got practice doing that and then was able to do it for himself.

So anyway,

That's an important thing to be thinking about as well.

Excellent.

Yes.

Yes.

I couldn't agree more.

Just having the parent to keep this idea of what skills is my child lacking in this moment?

What is this behavior telling me that he needs to learn?

I think it's such a great perspective shift as opposed to,

Why is he doing this?

How can I get rid of this?

And somehow we assume that children know better.

They choose to act worse.

I was talking to a close friend just the other day who has an autistic child,

A young child,

And he said,

Oh,

My child is struggling with dealing with frustration when something doesn't go his way.

If he's practicing his piano,

He makes a mistake.

He gets really frustrated and just instead of continuing the song,

He goes back and starts from the beginning,

He says,

I want to teach him frustration tolerance and this and that and all of those good things.

I'm like,

Wow.

I said,

How many adults do you know who are good at this skill?

Self-awareness,

Stopping before reacting.

He laughed.

I said,

That's a really great goal to have and we're aiming towards that.

But let's not assume that our children are capable of right away and how dare you?

I told you this last week and you're not doing it today.

It takes us back to that idea of having expectations that are out of sync with what the child's capable of at that time.

And I always make the joke that I want to coach a six-year-old.

If their parent says,

How many times do I have to tell you to coach a six-year-old to say,

Well,

According to neuroplasticity modeling,

It'll have to be multiple times over multiple weeks before my brain wires to know that.

And it does.

It takes time.

It takes time.

And knowing what you're supposed to do and having the capacity to do it are not always the same thing.

And so you're right.

We make a decision.

I mean,

We make an assumption all the time that just because we've asked a kid to do something that they have the emotional breaks to do that.

Or we'd say,

If you do that to your sister one more time,

You're not going to get dessert tonight or whatever.

And then they're playing 20 more minutes.

He forgets,

He does it to his sister one more time.

And then everyone else is having dessert,

But he's sitting there not having dessert that night.

And I make the joke that he's not sitting there thinking,

Gosh,

I really wish I had followed my dad's instructions.

And next time I'm going to pause before my emotional reactivity takes over.

That's not going to happen for a six-year-old or a seven-year-old.

He's just sitting there thinking how mean everyone is to eat dessert in front of him.

And he's not taking responsibility at all.

It takes time.

It takes time for kids to have emotional breaks.

And we do make the assumption all the time that a kid is willfully choosing oppositional defined behavior when sometimes that's the case.

But often it's the case that the lower structures of their brain have sort of become more that reptilian reactive response.

And the pausing and deciding part of their brain is really kind of offline.

So it's funny we've gotten into talking about no drama discipline.

You know,

It's one of my favorite books.

Truthfully,

The books that you guys wrote together,

I think that no drama discipline is my very favorite.

Oh,

That's sweet.

And maybe that's why we started talking about that.

But let's talk about the power of showing up.

What does it mean to show up?

You know,

Now's a great time for us to be talking about this book.

You know,

I could have never anticipated when the book came out in January that this is,

We would be walking through this time together.

But really the power of showing up is based on 50 years of research in something called attachment science,

Which is not the same thing as attachment parenting.

And what this attachment science and it's cross-cultural and it even is very relevant even to non-human mammals is this.

This is the punchline of 50 years of research that one of the best predictors for how well kids turn out is that they have what's called a secure attachment with at least one person.

And attachment is a mammal instinct that is made and its purpose is for us to survive.

So if you imagine you're a little lion cub and you see a predator coming towards you or you hear a scary noise or you get hurt,

You have an inborn biological instinct that's your attachment system that sends you running to an attachment figure who will protect you and help you survive,

That will help you stay alive.

So this attachment system is inborn in us and it's particularly relevant right now because this is the system that allows us to be resilient and survive and thrive when we are in distress or pain or threat or danger.

So that's the purpose of this attachment system.

So the idea is that when we are in distress,

We seek out our attachment figures who will then comfort us and help us stay safe.

So when Dan and I talk about having secure attachment,

We want our children to have secure attachment with us.

And so we've tried to lay this out in a really,

We really like to make things as accessible as possible and we use acronyms.

But in this book,

We talk about the four S's.

There are four kinds of ideas that we can hang on to when we think about how to cultivate secure attachment in our relationships with our kids.

And those are the four S's.

So I'll just go through,

I'll just say the four and then if you'd like,

We can go a little bit deeper into each of the four.

So the four S's to build secure attachment are safe,

Seen,

Soothed,

And secure.

So those are the four S's.

And I'll just say quickly before we go into those in a little deeper way,

40% of us as parents did not have secure attachment with our own parents.

But the research is incredibly hopeful and very robust in saying that if the best predictor for kids to turn out well is having secure attachment with their parent,

There's also something called earned secure attachment.

So if you didn't grow up with that,

You can still have your brain change into one that's wired as if you did have secure attachment if you do something.

And that is that you look back and reflect on your experiences and make sense of them.

So let me say it this way.

The single best predictor for how well we are able to provide secure attachment to our own children to be able to do these four S's of safe,

Seen,

Soothed,

And secure is not whether or not we had secure attachment with our own parents,

Thank goodness,

But rather that we have reflected on our past relational experiences with our caregivers and have made sense of them.

So instead of running away from them and denying them and saying,

I don't need to look at the past,

I don't need to even look at all that stuff,

That doesn't matter.

So that would be not making sense.

That would be dismissing or avoiding the past.

Or we're not also preoccupied and tangled up in it where the past is intruding all the time into our current lives.

That wouldn't be having made sense of it.

It's really rather where you can look back at those relationships you had with your parents,

To look back at them,

Tell the story about what that was like for you,

Make sense of it so that you then become free to be able to see and respond to your own kids' needs.

So that making sense process is a really important,

Powerful one,

Particularly if you had parents who were not secure attachment figures to you or even worse,

Did damage and were abusive or frightening themselves.

So that's just a wonderful message of hope that I think is so important is that there's always hope for us to begin to make sense of our stories,

And we can always begin to change our capacity as parents to provide the four S's to our kids.

Yes.

And also we can be in loving,

Secure relationships with our partners or romantic partners,

Husbands and wives to get that secure attachment that can really change the brain.

If you didn't grow up with that,

That hope is still there.

That's right.

Yeah,

And keeping in mind that the 40% is with their primary caregivers,

And the research says it just has to be one person.

And obviously it's better if it's someone that you spend a lot of time with.

But a lot of times for kids or for some of us,

That one person was a grandparent or another family member or a teacher or a neighbor or a coach or a pastor or something like that.

And you're exactly right.

There's incredible research that shows that if you have an insecure pattern of attachment that you grew up with and your brain's kind of been wired to either run from emotion or dismiss and avoid emotion or to get completely preoccupied and tangled up in it,

Which are two of the three insecure attachment patterns,

That if you live with someone or you spend a lot of time with someone like a best friend or a significant other,

That after a few years,

If they provide you with the four S's,

If you feel safe,

Seen and soothed by them to build that security,

Your brain wires as if you had it as well.

So that's for sure right.

And really why one of the takeaway messages from this too is that it's a simple idea to provide our kids with repeated experience of feeling safe,

Seen and soothed,

But it's not always easy to do.

And so it's really important that we have people who show up for us and do those kinds of things.

Yeah.

So especially during this time,

I was thinking about single parents who are stuck with their children or also I was thinking a lot,

I work with people,

Domestic violence people,

And I was thinking,

Wow,

To people who are stuck with their partners in homes where there was abuse and there is still abuse,

What's going on?

And so we see people joke on social media about this time that,

Oh,

People are having a lot of sex in their lives,

A lot of children are going to be born in nine months.

But there is the opposite too.

There is the opposite.

People who are single parents stuck with their kids and they have no one to soothe and comfort them.

And then how can they show up for their children in this difficult,

Turbulent time?

I think it's important for them to seek out some kind of emotional,

Social support,

Not only for this time,

But in general,

In order to be the best parent that they can be.

It's not about providing materialistically for your children,

Which a lot of parents want to do that.

They get caught up in this cycle of buying the best sneakers,

The best headphones,

And keeping up with everyone so that their child is not feeling the lack.

But I think it's important to talk about the four S's in here.

That it's more important for the child,

My clients always say,

Oh,

My father gave me everything,

The best sneakers,

The best Disney vacations,

And this and that,

But I never felt seen or heard.

My emotions were not important.

As parents,

They reflect back on their experiences and they want to do differently for their own children.

Right.

Well,

And I think that's so important to remember right now is that I've had so many emails from parents saying,

I have an only child,

She's getting no social interaction,

I'm worried about her social development,

Or I'm worried about X,

Y,

And Z.

All these fears that are coming up because kids aren't getting what parents,

Obviously social interactions and those kinds of things.

But what we have to remember is that this research is very clear that what your kids need most from you is you.

Flawed,

Imperfect,

Authentic you.

Our kids learn how to be in the world and who to be through their relationships with us.

And so one of the,

And this is not new,

You all have heard this a million times,

One of the most important things we can do is care for ourselves so that we do have the capacity so that the you we show up with,

Right?

So that who we are when we show up,

What we do doesn't matter as much as how we are with our children.

A lot of children aren't even going to remember the specifics of the coronavirus and even how long it was or what they missed out on specifically,

But they're going to remember kind of in a more impressionistic way.

What was that like to be with my family,

Whatever that constellation of family is for me?

And so I think it's really important that we do reach out for support.

There are a ton of people providing free parenting connection and support times through the web.

And it's just really important that we do that.

But what our kids need most from us is these four S's.

So let's start with S,

The first S of safety.

And I think this is a super important one.

In the book,

What Dan and I talk about is from the research where,

And then I'm going to add a new thing related to the coronavirus,

Helping our children feel safe is primarily two things.

One is protecting them from harm,

Right?

So that's something most of us are really pretty good at.

But there's a second piece of this that is really important,

And that is to not be the source of harm or fear or threat for our children.

Now this is based on,

In the attachment research,

There's an insecure pattern of attachment called disorganized attachment.

And it's actually very sad and hard to talk about.

And that is that if you imagine,

You have this biological attachment drive that says,

Go to your attachment figure when you're in pain or when you're terrified or when you're in distress.

But what happens if your attachment figure is the source of your terror,

The source of your pain,

The source of your fear?

What happens is it creates disorganization in the brain because you have one biological circuit that says,

Go to your attachment figure.

And then you have another biological circuit that says,

Get the heck away from what's dangerous or what's painful.

And so having this disorganized attachment actually has a significant and very unfortunate impact on development.

And so obviously in cases of abuse or where parents may not be directly physically,

Emotionally,

Or sexually abusing their children,

But they may have a substance abuse problem and they're really unpredictable.

That is a source of fear for children.

Or if parents,

Married or not,

Scream and yell and fight in ways that are scary to kids,

That is a source of fear.

And then there are those more micro ones that we all have had,

Anna,

Where we lose our patience,

We may yell at our kids,

We may get really reactive in a moment and not handle ourselves well.

My kids and I were laughing the other day about a time when they were younger and we were playing Yahtzee.

I flipped my lid.

I got mad.

I don't remember what I got mad about,

But I got really immature and said something like,

Oh,

This is so fun to play games with you guys.

I'm so glad I'm spending my time doing this.

And then I threw the dice across the room.

Yeah,

Not a good moment for me.

And we now refer to it as the Yahtzee incident.

But we have those moments as parents where we act in ways that we would never allow anyone else to treat our children in the ways that we act sometimes in those moments.

We would protect them from that if it was coming from someone else.

We would never allow our other people to talk to or yell at our kids sometimes the way that we do.

Yes.

Yeah.

If you think about it as like,

Oh,

Geez,

This is terrible.

Well,

But let me give you the feel good part of that terribleness,

Which of course,

This is important.

It's important for us to think about that because we never want to be the source of fear and threat and unpredictability for our children.

Predictability helps them feel safe.

But what's amazing is that as long and we will,

We never want to do that,

But we will do that at times.

We will frighten them.

We will be unpredictable.

We will lose our temper and treat them in ways that we would not want to treat them.

Here's the key,

Repair.

So ruptures will happen.

But one of the ways we help our kids feel safe,

Even when we have those kinds of ruptures,

Is to repair with them and to say,

Oh my goodness,

That was not good the way I handled that.

I'm so sorry.

I wish I had handled that differently.

I got really angry and I didn't manage my emotions well.

I didn't handle my anger well.

And I know that must have been scary for you.

Do you want to tell me about that?

Or even if you just,

Sometimes you don't even have to go into a big long thing.

You can just kind of pop your head in your kid's room and say,

Well,

I was just ridiculous,

Wasn't I?

And you can kind of just admit it and just say,

I'm so sorry.

I wish I could have a do over.

Will you forgive me?

So just making those repairs.

And when we do that,

It's so good for our kids.

So it builds resilience when it comes to relationships.

And what I mean by that is that,

Imagine,

Anna,

If you were perfect and lovely every moment with your child,

Then the first time they had conflict in relationships out in the world,

It would probably feel really scary to them.

So they have these experiences of saying,

Oh,

Relationships are messy and sticky.

We have conflict sometimes,

And we repair and work through them.

And then we maybe even understand each other better,

Or the relationship is deeper.

So it builds resilience in terms of tolerating conflict in relationships,

Which is pretty important.

It also models for them that vulnerability of making an apology and going back and making things right.

So just keep in mind that when we do violate that and we fall apart as parents,

That we can make a repair.

And it's never too late to kind of hit the restart button,

Just like we give our kids do overs.

We get to give ourselves do overs as well.

So one other thing I want to say just about safety before we move on,

And I made a little video about this.

It'll be posted on my social media sometime in the next week or two,

Is that one of the concerns I have right now regarding,

And because I'm a mental health professional,

I'm really concerned about some of the mental health outcomes of what's happening right now with kids.

Now,

Again,

The attachment research shows that if we help our kids feel safe,

Seen,

And soothed,

They will weather this beautifully.

They will handle this really well.

However,

There are ways that every kid is different,

And some kids tend to run a little bit more anxious,

Some of them have sensory processing challenges that make them more sensitive to changes in the world,

And there are all kinds of ways that we're all unique and different and handle different things differently.

But one of the things I'm concerned about across the board is that parents are giving repeated messaging to our kids that's around danger,

Threat,

And fear right now,

Because we feel danger,

Threat,

And fear,

And the world is not predictable right now.

But I'm concerned that keeping in mind that the brain is an association machine,

So things get linked up together.

So when you touch a hot stove,

Your brain makes an association between danger and hot stove,

Right?

So then you avoid it.

That's the way the brain works.

If we're giving our kids repeated messaging that is focused on threat,

Danger,

And fear,

You can't be with your friends because it's dangerous to be with people.

Or if we go to the playground,

You could get sick.

Or if you don't wash your hands,

That's really dangerous,

You could get sick.

Or we talk about people dying,

Or we talk about these kinds of things.

And I'm concerned that particularly for younger kids,

That all of that messaging may get associated with doing good,

Healthy,

Normal things,

Like being with other people,

Playing on a playground,

Those kinds of things.

So what I would really like us to all be doing is to think about the words and messages we're giving because words matter.

And what we can do is still give them that information,

But not from a threat danger language message,

But rather a safety one.

So what we want to do is give context and use safety words.

So we would say,

We wash our hands because that keeps us safer.

Or we're not playing with friends right now because it's safe for us to have spaces between people for just a little while while the doctors and the scientists are figuring out the answers.

So instead of saying,

We can't be with people because it's dangerous,

We're saying we're staying away from people because we want to be safe.

That's just for right now.

So then your kids' associations are like,

Oh,

This is just a special time,

And my parent keeps me safe.

And when that gets wired,

Then when the parent says,

It's safe for you to go play with your friends or it's time we get to go be on the playground,

They have wired,

My parent keeps me safe.

I can do this.

This is okay to do.

Does that make sense?

It does because I was,

As an adult,

I was thinking about this.

Oh my gosh,

What's going to happen when we all come out of this?

I think I'm going to be scared of going to public places.

I think I'm going to be scared of touching and hugging people and doing the ordinary things.

I was thinking how long it will take for me personally to fall into my old routines and never fear going into a crowded space or a theater.

And I have this fear myself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we're all going to have to give ourselves a lot of grace and patience.

I think we're also going to be overstimulated when we go back to a schedule like we had before.

But I think you're right.

I was talking about how some of the,

I'm Caucasian,

But some of the people on my team are women of color.

And they were talking about how when they're going into a bakery or they're going into a grocery store and they feel like people are avoiding them or recoiling or pulling back,

It's actually activating a lot of trauma and family history,

Even across generations of how their family has been treated.

And that's something I had not thought about.

I was so grateful that they shared that with me because I think the nonverbal communication in our brains is processed as more important than what people say.

So if I say,

I'm not mad,

Anna.

You know not to believe my words.

You know what I'm saying is coming out in the more nonverbal pieces of my tone and the intensity of my voice and all of those things.

And so all these nonverbal cues we're sharing in the world right now because we're afraid and rightly so,

But we're pulling away from people.

We're walking,

When someone comes down a path,

We walk around as if we're avoiding them.

That's impacting us.

And so it's really important that our internal narrative is how wonderful that people are aware and keeping them safe and me safe when they're avoiding me.

So having that internal dialogue of meaning making is important,

But I think you're right.

I think it's going to take some time because fear trumps everything.

The brain's number one job is to keep us safe.

And so because there's justifiable fear around not touching each other,

It may take some time for us to move back to those places.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was thinking about this a lot.

And I made the mistake in the beginning of speaking negatively to my daughter.

The first week was very hard for all of us because my daughter was upset that we have to stay home and never see friends and you're killing my social life.

I'm like,

It's not me.

I'm not the mean one.

Trust me.

And it was very turbulent in our household.

And I said something like,

You know,

You kids don't get it,

Do you?

You go and you do this,

You do that,

You play,

You want to play.

What if your mother gets sick or your father?

You're going to lose a parent.

And I said those things.

Thankfully,

I'm not sure how it impacted her,

But it didn't traumatize her for sure.

She laughed at me.

If it was a sensitive,

More different type of kid,

Maybe it might have affected deeply.

And maybe I may not even have said that.

I'm not saying it was correct,

But I was in that fear state.

I was telling my neighbors,

No,

You can't come to our home.

We can't come to yours.

I will never talk to you.

I said to my friend,

If you go places and things like that,

I was very,

My alert system leaked in earlier than I guess the people that I know of in my circle.

Yes,

That's hard.

Because,

And I will tell you,

Because when I was 13,

I endured a severe earthquake.

I mean,

I lived through a horrific event when things were unpredictable.

You know,

There was no food,

No electricity,

No shelter.

My mother was gone.

Everybody was gone.

It was a horrific event.

And when I first heard about this,

You know,

The coronavirus,

My alarm system was on high drive and I stocked up on food and toilet paper and everything before anyone else.

And people were thinking that,

Are you crazy,

Ana?

I'm like,

No,

Trust me.

I lived through similar experiences.

But then it took me a while to downregulate,

So,

You know,

To be in a better place.

But my initial panic was very heightened,

Hypervigilant and anxiety and fear and yelling at people and my daughter and all those things.

Yeah.

I think that,

You know,

I also was,

My stepdad is a psychology researcher and his specialty is personality.

And I know from just conversations with him and some self-reflection that I score really high on conscientiousness.

And so I'm a very conscientious person and so I'm almost always very prepared.

And when this all started happening,

I was supposed to be speaking and traveling and I was like,

I'm uncomfortable with that.

But I was supposed to go to Washington.

I actually flew to Washington right near where everything was going,

But they didn't cancel the event until I arrived and then they canceled it.

But I was the first of a lot of people to say,

We really need to stay in and this is serious.

And the teenagers and the college kid in particular were doing what your daughter was doing.

They were rolling their eyes and saying,

You know,

Mom,

You're being so dramatic or you're,

You know,

Whatever.

And,

You know,

It's kind of a ridiculous thing to be relieved and glad when news keeps coming out that justifies me to be like,

See,

I wasn't crazy.

I wasn't crazy.

But that's really hard.

And I think when it's everything that you felt and that I'm feeling,

Particularly given your history,

It's justifiable.

And I think one of the things in our society that we do is we pathologize anxiety particularly.

And I think,

You know,

Anytime we feel some fear or anxiety,

The important question to ask is,

Am I crazy or not,

But what do I need to feel safe here?

And so with things,

A lot of us are not feeling tethered right now because things are unpredictable and the brain loves predictability.

So you know,

Keeping things as predictable as possible with routines is great,

But also even telling your kids like,

What we know is that they're going to keep updating us as they know it.

So even if that's the most predictable we can get is that we know we're going to keep being updated and things are going to change.

But I think if any of you as parents are feeling really reactive and fearful at times,

And you know,

I had just a whole new surge of fear that came up yesterday and what I needed to do was,

You know,

You just certain news stories you read about healthy people dying and I had a cousin in the hospital and different things,

She's home and doing better,

But I was feeling that fear.

And it's so important that we say,

Is there something I can do now to help myself feel safe?

And that might be connecting with someone.

It might be going outside and taking a walk.

It might be,

And I know this sounds crazy,

It might be organizing a drawer or,

You know,

I started picking up our house and getting really organized yesterday and my son was like,

Why does it matter?

We're all just here.

And I said,

Because it's giving me a false sense of control of my world,

Let me organize and put things away.

So sometimes just doing something like that,

That gives us a sense of controlling our environment can be helpful as well.

Yes,

Yes.

So,

Well,

We should probably get to the other three S's.

Yes,

Please.

Yes.

You,

Ano,

You and I could talk forever.

Okay.

So,

Seen is the second one and seen is really about looking at the mind behind the behavior.

So we often as a society are so focused on the behavior,

But we're not looking at what's underneath it or behind it.

And so this is really tuning into your child's internal landscape.

So an example I love to give is a time my son was four and he was having a meltdown.

He was in the bathtub and he didn't want to get out.

And I just want to make sure you guys all hear that when we're talking about helping a child feel safe,

Seen and soothed,

We're not talking about being permissive and just talking about their feelings all the time without ever setting boundaries.

Actually boundaries make kids feel safe.

So this is not a permissive approach,

But we can say no to a behavior,

But yes to the child's experience.

So my son's melting down in the bathtub.

He's really upset about getting out.

And I say,

Hey,

It's time to get out.

You can either get out by yourself or I will help you get out of the tub.

And he's not going to get out.

So as I'm lifting him out of the tub,

I'm practicing seen.

So he's feeling safe because he knows I'm reinforcing a boundary that he knows was coming and is predictable.

And then I say to him,

You're so mad that you have to get out of the bathtub.

You were really having fun and you're so,

So sad that you have to get out.

The non-seen version of that is,

You know it's time to get out.

I told you to get out.

Get out.

And he's getting out.

I'm pulling him out.

So I'm holding the boundary,

But I'm really tuning into his experience of what's happening.

This can be really,

Really hard to do.

I remember a time my husband called me.

My husband's a phenomenal parent,

Usually much more emotionally regulated and patient even than I am.

But I remember him calling me.

I was away speaking and he's like,

Hey,

I just need you to give me some perspective because I'm feeling really mad and I want to handle this better than I'm feeling my impulse to do,

Which is awesome.

Our son was probably nine at the time,

Eight or nine.

My husband said,

Hey,

Let's go to the movies.

And he was really excited.

Then he said,

Can we have popcorn?

And my husband said,

No,

We're not getting treats.

We're going to the movies.

And that's already a treat,

Right?

That's special.

So my son started to pout and cry that he wasn't going to get popcorn.

So you can sort of sit with that for a moment.

You know what feelings might arise in us as parents.

You're indulged.

You're spoiled.

You're so ungrateful.

You might want to say,

Fine,

We're not going to go to the movies then if you're going to pout about that,

Right?

So you hear how easily that comes off my tongue.

So he's like,

He's in there pouting that he's not going to get popcorn.

And I was like,

Okay,

What's he experiencing?

What's his feeling?

And so we could get to it.

And I said,

You know,

By the way,

I did buy him popcorn the last time we went.

So he had that anticipation,

Right?

And that doesn't mean we have to give him popcorn every time.

But he was feeling disappointed.

When you said we're going to go to the movies,

He was like,

Movies and popcorn.

And then when he heard no popcorn,

It's not that he's spoiled and indulged.

It's that he feels disappointed.

And it's okay for him to feel disappointed and grateful that he gets to go.

Those can go together.

So really,

You don't have to say yes.

So you know,

My husband could go in and say you were feeling disappointed when you heard we weren't getting popcorn.

Is that right?

And he nodded and said,

I know it's so hard sometimes when things don't happen the way we want them to.

And I can see why.

That's really hard for you sometimes.

We're still not getting the popcorn,

But I'm with you right here while you're sad about not getting the popcorn,

Right?

So that's really about being seen is to really tune into their internal world.

It doesn't always have to be around negative things either.

Just checking in with them.

How are you feeling about things right now?

Especially with the coronavirus,

How are you doing?

I'm just checking in with you today.

And creating space for them to share what's happening inside.

And then soothed comes right from seen.

When we see how they're really feeling and experiencing things,

It's much easier to move to soothed.

And soothed is really about nurturing them,

Helping them,

Comforting them.

When our children are having a hard time,

That may be when their behavior is the worst.

And that may be when we're most reactive to them.

But the truth is that when they're at their worst,

That's when they need us the most.

That's what the attachment system is set up to do.

And so soothed can sometimes be like,

Do you want me to get you a drink of water?

Do you need a hug?

It might be,

I can see you're really upset right now.

I'm right here with you.

And you just don't do anything or say anything,

But you really are just present.

And you just sit there with them.

So anything that really comforts your child,

Nurtures them,

Is really what soothing is all about.

So that day when I pulled JP out of the bathtub and I said,

You're so mad about getting out of the tub,

I said to him,

And physical comfort is a huge thing for all of us.

So that's part of soothing.

I said,

Let me put this towel around you.

And I pulled him to me and I said,

If you need to cry for a little while because you're really upset about getting out of the bathtub,

That's okay.

You can cry and I'm right here with you and I will hold you or hug you if you need it.

So that's really where soothed comes in.

With our teenagers,

It's probably much more like,

I can see you're having a really hard time or you're really angry with me.

I will listen.

Or can I get you a snack or something like that?

Again,

Here's the thing,

Where they all come together.

Not perfectly because none of us are perfect.

And if we expect ourselves to be perfect and never have ruptures with our kids,

We're setting ourselves up for failure.

But when kids have enough repeated experiences,

Predictable experiences,

Where their parent shows up for them and helps them feel safe,

Seen and soothed,

Where the parent is present,

Not physically present necessarily,

But really present.

So when we have enough repeated experiences of helping our kids feel safe,

Seen and soothed,

We get that fourth S,

Which is secure.

And security is not like,

Oh,

I feel secure about myself,

Like I have good self-esteem.

That's for sure an outcome.

But actually what it is,

Is that the brain now wires,

Based on these repeated experiences,

The brain wires to know that if I have a need,

Someone will show up for me.

Someone will help me feel safe,

Seen and soothed.

And the two huge benefits,

In addition to their brain wiring that way,

Is that one,

They expect that in their relationships.

So they'll have healthier friendships and healthier romantic relationships.

And the research bears that out.

The second thing is so important,

Particularly for those of you where it'll come sooner than you know,

It's time to take your kid to college or to help them move into their own place where they don't live with you anymore.

And as you're waving goodbye and your heart is breaking and you're full of joy for them too,

Because this is where our job as parents is to launch them out into the world,

Is that their brains,

When they have secure attachment,

Their brains are wired to be able to show up for themselves.

They're able to keep themselves safe and seen and know themselves and to soothe themselves.

And that might even be reaching out for help.

It might even be saying,

Hey,

I need someone to talk to.

That is self-soothing,

Right?

So all of these things are the foundation for resilience and social and emotional intelligence and mental health and all of those things.

And so this is the gift we give our kids when we're not perfect,

But we give them enough good enough experiences of feeling safe,

Seen and soothed.

We are wiring their brain to know that people show up for them and that they can show up for themselves.

Good enough.

How do we gauge them?

How many repeated experiences?

Is that true that 30% of the time if we are attuned and nurturing and show up 30% of the time they will be,

You know,

This will be enough?

Yeah.

You know,

That's a little bit of an extrapolation from the research.

That's based on Edtronic's work,

But it's kind of the guideline I give myself,

Ana.

Really it's close enough that I think that's a good one to hold on to.

That's based on Edtronic's work that really is looking at attunement.

So parents that are kind of in sync and tuning in with their infants and babies versus not being.

And basically the parents who were kind of attuned to their babies and their young children about 30% of the time those kids had secure attachment with their parents.

So isn't that a lovely percentage really?

Even if you just help them feel that about 30% of the time they can develop secure attachment that gives a lot of room for imperfection,

Doesn't it?

Because we can just sort of all take a deep breath.

Collectively.

Yes.

Yes.

Well,

I want to thank you for showing up today in this difficult time and giving your time,

Sharing your wisdom,

Your insights.

Like you said,

I can talk to you for hours.

Thank you for the work that you do and the message that you spread in the world.

I love the realness of it and so many people connect to it.

I definitely deeply connect.

So thank you.

Stay safe.

Be healthy.

Be well.

And hopefully this will be over soon.

And keeping in mind that 70% of people who go through something traumatic find blessings and goodness that comes from it.

That's the research on post-traumatic growth.

And I think there'll be some very difficult,

Sad,

Horrible losses that come of this time.

But I also think some really beautiful connecting things will come at this time too.

So you can all be watching for that as well.

Yes.

Yes.

I agree.

I think we're going to start a new conversation,

But what do you think this experience,

This global experience that we're going through,

How it will change the face of education,

Healthcare,

How we do relationships,

I think is going to have such deeper impact in every area of our life,

Both positive and negative,

Right?

I think that's right.

I think there will be positives and negatives.

I think some people who maybe wouldn't feel comfortable going into a therapy office,

But who actually really need to do some of their own work will feel more comfortable with telehealth.

So it might mean that more people seek out the help that they need.

I think there'll be a lot of innovation that comes at this time.

I think people,

I've heard a lot of people talk about how they've had a huge wake up call about what they thought they needed and what they actually know now that they truly need,

That it's not about what they do as much as their relationships,

Rethinking our schedules,

Those kinds of things.

And really,

I just am always so touched by how people show up for each other,

How neighbors are helping each other,

How people are sewing masks for health workers.

And I just love,

There's this part of us as humans that finds great meaning and purpose in showing up for each other.

And I hope that that really kind of gets deeply ingrained into the architecture of our brains and our lives as a society as well.

Thank you so much.

Thank you,

Ana.

It's always a delight to talk with you.

And one last thing I'll say to you parents,

You matter too.

So make sure you're showing up for yourself and that you're connecting with others who will show up for you because you matter too.

And this is a hard time.

We're being asked to do things that are not typical for us and are outside of our comfort zone.

And so don't feel like you have to be perfect anything.

Just show up for yourself,

Give yourself a lot of grace and forgiveness and enjoy as much as you can with this quieter time cocooning with our families.

I know.

Like I said to my friend yesterday,

Sorry I didn't shower today.

I didn't have time.

She laughed so much.

Yeah I saw someone that said,

They use it as an excuse all the time on the phone like,

Oh hey,

I have to go.

And they're like,

I have nowhere to go.

I can't use that excuse anymore.

I've actually been really,

Really busy.

I've been behind on several writing deadlines and I've got one more writing deadline by the end of today.

And then I'll be able to have a little bit more spaciousness in my life.

And I'm looking forward to that.

Great.

So be well,

A virtual safe hug to you.

Yes,

Me too,

Anna.

Yes,

We'll connect again.

Sounds good.

Take care everyone.