Learn Buddhism: Buddhism In 10 Steps (Interview)

What is Buddhism? A new book by Alan and Buddhist Monk Sanathavihari Bhikkhu helps beginners understand the basics of the Buddhist religion. In this episode, Alan talks with Sanathavihari about some topics of the book such as why Buddhism, Buddhist teachings, and how to get started.

Transcript

Welcome to learn Buddhism.

I'm Alan Pito.

And for today's special episode,

I'm joined by Buddhist monk Sanathivihari Biku.

He helped me write the book Buddhism in 10 steps,

Which is our short introduction to Buddhism for beginners.

It's taken from both the Tara Vada and Mahayana traditions and to give you a nice.

Introduction was really necessary.

It's short.

It's simple.

It's to the point available free as an ebook,

But also up on Amazon.

So,

Bonta,

Welcome.

If you wouldn't mind,

Would you just give like a short introduction about yourself and what you do as a Buddhist monk?

Thank you so much for having me back.

Yeah.

So my name is Sanathivihari Biku.

I'm a Mexican American Tara Vada Buddhist monk within the Sri Lankan lineage.

And I'm also a Buddhist Buddhist monk.

And most of my work is well,

My work is expanding to the Latin community,

Both in the United States and abroad.

So I,

You know,

Do online meditations for Latinos all over the world.

I've also conducted multiple meditation retreats in Mexico and Spain.

And I'm also a veteran like our friend Alan here,

But I was in the Air Force.

So I also got that going for me.

And I think that kind of sums up,

You know,

Me in a nutshell.

Yeah,

Thanks for coming back.

And I think this was a great project we worked on.

We also worked on previously during the COVID-19 pandemic.

We had that introductory planner for people who are,

You know,

At home and how to get practice Buddhism.

And so we started off that way and we kind of merged into something that's going to be beneficial,

I think pretty much to everybody.

And so what we were thinking with this particular episode is to maybe just go through a few of the different topics that are inside this book to help you get that first steps if you will into Buddhism from both of our perspectives.

So with that,

Let's kind of jump right into that.

What we have in the beginning of the book is two essays by ourselves about Buddhism,

But I think that would be good for the first topic.

We also have in our book which is what is Buddhism and I would like you to go ahead and start off because you talked about your essay.

Buddhism is everything and I really loved your essay.

So why don't you just tell us a little bit more about that?

Yeah,

Alan.

When I was faced with this question,

I was like what am I going to say?

This is like,

You know,

It was the only answer I could come with was like,

Well,

Buddhism is infinite.

It cannot be limited to any kind of conceptual box.

So I thought like,

Well,

Easy way to say that is like Buddhism is everything because sometimes in the West we lean towards like,

Oh,

Buddhism is a philosophy,

Which means like it's a theory.

It's something you read in a book and you learn.

It becomes very intellectual.

Or we go the other way or Buddhism is just sitting in meditation.

Right?

So,

You know,

It's a very common perception.

Yeah.

So I kind of wanted to address that,

You know,

Address it both from like the current cultural landscape of Buddhism in the world,

You know,

Especially like in traditional Asian countries and also as it's reflected in the early text and it's a very important thing to know that Buddhism encompasses everything.

It deals with everything that we do,

You know,

It deals with,

You know,

How we should treat others.

It deals with like our jobs or relationships.

It deals with the mundane,

The super mundane.

I mean,

Even for monks,

It's like how to properly wear your robe and how much rice you can eat,

You know,

In your bowl and so and how to use the bathroom to it tells the monks how to properly use the stick to clean yourself within those days.

They didn't have to clean it.

So it's like,

You know,

It's like how to properly wear your robe and how to use the bathroom to clean yourself within those days.

They didn't have toilet paper.

So,

You know,

It's really life,

You know,

So I kind of that's really what I wanted to get at.

I wanted people to get out of this kind of these two boxes that we have.

It's like,

Oh,

A theory or it's like just meditation and to see that,

You know,

Buddhism can be practiced in every dimension of our life.

It can be incorporated into everything that we do.

Absolutely agree.

And if you look at most Buddhist lay persons,

Not just monastics,

The lay persons,

They incorporate Buddhism into their everyday life.

So when we say Buddhism is everything,

It can very much encompass many different aspects of their life.

It's just not,

You know,

Take like an hour or two for sitting meditation.

It's part of their life.

So we can find it in all aspects.

And so like,

You know,

With my one was Buddhism is freedom.

We look at where the Buddhist helping to liberate us,

You know,

So we're in this endless cycle of Reaper and we're so consumed by the three fires of three poisons,

Greed,

Anger,

Delusion,

Or ignorance,

And crane always karmic actions.

And we're just now really delusional,

You know,

To what's actually going on around us.

It's very much like going down to the wrong side of the road and thinking,

Well,

This is fine,

You know,

And we're just not aware of what's going on.

So he's giving us that ability to liberate ourselves,

To,

You know,

Leave this illusionary world we have and essentially this jail cell and to be free to Nirvana and Nabana.

And that's what we're trying to get inside Buddhism is to destroy this idea,

To break down this idea of self and not,

You know,

That,

You know,

You and me don't exist,

But that we believe that this existence right now is that impermanent one is never changing.

It's just,

You know,

Not dependent on other things.

And but it said it wasn't true.

And so when,

When I think as Buddhist practitioners,

Whether you're monastic or a lay person,

You know,

We're focusing so much on really understanding and breaking down that idea,

That false idea of self so that we can become liberated.

And that's true freedom right there,

That Nirvana and Nabana,

That,

That is freedom.

And,

You know,

Sometimes I think for Westerners and we get a little bit too much caught up on that meditation aspect and the self-help and the philosophy,

You know,

Type thing.

The goal here is to get rid of that idea of self.

It's,

It's beyond kind of what we feel about ourselves right now.

It's trying to get to that true essence,

You will,

That true mental state.

And so to me that just felt,

You know,

Even to this day,

It's that is can spur you on because we,

And we're going to talk about,

You know,

Coming up here to eightfold paths and everything else as well.

But,

You know,

You have to have that effort determination.

So why are you practicing Buddhism?

Is it just to feel good?

Or is it as the Buddha said,

This is important.

We need to break this cycle of rebirth because it's unsatisfactory.

It's Dukkha.

And,

And I think as Westerners we,

You know,

Get deeper and deeper into the true teachings.

And I hate to use that,

That term,

But the true teachings and practices out there that we see practiced by half a billion Buddhists out there.

There's a reason that they practice and it's for that liberation,

That freedom.

And it also encompasses what you said in your essay,

You know,

Buddhism is everything.

So we're trying to liberate ourselves,

But we're doing it in a way that's our lifestyle or encompassing.

It's,

It doesn't have to be two separate things.

Yeah.

I really like that about freedom.

You know,

When people ask me like in briefly,

What is Buddhism about?

And I say,

Well,

It's letting go,

Letting go of greed,

Hatred,

Delusion.

And we can expand those categories to include,

You know,

Like anger,

Sadness,

Sorrow,

Lamentation,

Grasping desires,

Attachment.

It's just,

It's a process of shedding all this stuff,

You know,

Letting go of all the unskillful.

And once we let go of that,

Then we're free.

That's freedom.

Right.

And it's,

And I think sometimes,

And maybe you could speak on this as well.

We sometimes try to take a very,

And you mentioned it briefly,

A very intellectual approach to Buddhism.

And sure,

You know,

There is,

You know,

Reading the sutras,

The sutras,

The sutras,

And understand these different concepts,

But it's also a bit beyond that too.

We're trying to break down these,

You know,

Beliefs so we can get down to that.

We're trying to achieve enlightenment.

We're trying to realize nirvana,

Nirvana,

Right?

Yeah.

You know,

If we read,

When we read the sutras,

The sutras,

And we try to put ourselves within the sutras,

That's the important thing,

To put ourselves in that position,

We realize that the Buddha was just talking to people.

He was just talking to people.

He wasn't trying to,

You know,

Like,

Create this grand theory of everything,

And he wasn't a professor,

You know,

Trying to write a dissertation,

You know,

Why he's right.

He was just talking to people and giving them advice for them to live their everyday lives with less suffering and to eventually eliminate all suffering.

So here we can see that the Buddha doesn't really take an intellectual approach.

It's a pragmatic approach.

So when we also like read the sutras,

We have to kind of keep this in mind,

You know,

What's going on in the sutra.

It's not just for the purpose of like memorizing these concepts and,

You know,

Being a real smart Buddhist who knows a lot of things,

It's for the purpose of applying them and finding liberation,

Freedom.

That's,

All these things work in service of freedom.

Absolutely.

And I think,

You know,

Us as Buddhists,

You know,

We also refer to the Buddha as like that great physician,

Right?

You know,

He was able to cure these ills,

This disease,

You know,

The Dukkha.

And I think what you said is right in line with that.

It's almost like an emergency room doctor.

You know,

He has all these people in emergency room.

They all got different,

You know,

Situations and illnesses going on.

He's going to treat them as appropriate.

And so when the Buddha went out there,

Whether it was a king,

When it was just like a regular householder,

You know,

He was able to teach them and help them in a very pragmatic way.

Like you said,

That's affable that they understood it and they could apply it to what they're trying to do.

Yeah.

Amazing.

You know,

If you wrote,

I mean,

For me,

You know,

That that's,

That's amazing that he was so skillful in what he was able to do.

Like didn't matter who he was talking to,

He was able to really relate to them and,

And helped them in that way.

So kind of,

You know,

Going more onto that,

Like,

You know,

We have a lot of different concepts,

You know,

In Buddhism.

So we kind of talked about,

You know,

Kind of our impression of Buddhism right now.

It's,

It's everything,

It's freedom.

We kind of talked about why,

Why it's so important for us to practice Buddhism.

But,

You know,

One thing I think most people get really caught up on is the Four Noble Truths.

You know,

The Four Noble Truths is,

Especially in our world,

We love lists.

We love things that are short,

You know,

That can be just bite size and like,

Wow,

They're just as four things right there.

This is Buddhism in a nutshell,

Right?

And it is,

You know,

And it does tell us very much in a very,

You know,

Pragmatic approach,

Like here is what he's identified.

Here is,

You know,

What,

What he's saying is wrong with us and how to,

To cure ourselves because we have that Four Noble Truths,

Which is essentially the Eightfold Path.

But in your eyes as a,

As a Buddhist monk,

What does the Four Noble Truths mean to you and what would you relay out to laypersons when they ask you about the Four Noble Truths?

Yeah,

So actually,

You know,

I think it goes,

It follows very well what we're talking about right now,

Especially with your essay.

Four Noble Truths is the path to freedom and the Fourth Noble Truth,

Which is the Eight Fold Path is also,

You know,

The path to freedom.

So we also have to kind of understand the context in which the Buddha taught these Four Noble Truths.

So the Four Noble Truths,

According to the tradition,

Is,

Is the path to freedom.

And the tradition is,

Is the first sermon that the Buddha gave,

Right?

It's called the Turning of the Wheel of Dharma,

Dharmachaka Pavatanasutta.

So here the Buddha's talking to his five companions,

You know,

They were with him.

And he comes to them after,

You know,

Being away for some time and his,

His companions thought that he had given up already.

So they were kind of like,

Not too sure about him,

Right?

And so he had to find some way to,

To explain to him that what he was doing and what he achieved.

So he kind of wanted to just kind of just state the obvious in the beginning,

You know,

State the obvious.

And he goes,

You know,

There's suffering,

You know,

Here,

You know,

I think sometimes there's some misunderstandings.

We think that the Buddha said that everything is suffering,

Right?

All is suffering.

But no,

He just says,

You know,

There is suffering,

You know,

And he addresses the kind of sufferings that anyone can do,

Right?

Death,

Sickness,

All age,

Birth,

Not getting what you want,

Getting what you don't want and losing what you love,

Like your dear ones.

These things bring suffering.

So the Buddha just wants us to kind of like address it.

I always like using the example like Alcoholics Anonymous,

Right?

Like the first step is to realize that you have a problem,

Right?

That's the first thing you have to do.

So we have to realize that,

You know,

There's a problem,

Suffering.

And then,

You know,

Well,

What's the cause of it?

You know,

What's the cause of this suffering?

And here the Buddha says it's tanha or trishna,

Which,

You know,

A literal translation would be thirst,

Usually translated as craving or desire.

Sometimes we think the desire here,

There's some confusion too.

They're like,

Well,

You're desiring to be free from,

You know,

Suffering.

So isn't that a desire?

Well,

You know,

That's not the kind of desire that we're talking about.

If we look at the word trishna,

We know that is nothing cognitive.

So when you're thirsty,

You don't think I need to drink water.

Like it's just something that you feel,

Right?

So it's this kind of desires,

Kind of like impulses,

Right?

Like something somatic or visceral that you feel.

We're not talking about wishes.

Like I wish this,

I wish for that.

That's not the kind of desire.

So I think craving is a little bit more suitable here,

Right?

Like something that you kind of,

You have an impulse for.

So we have to realize this.

It's this kind of reactivity that we have,

Right,

Of like grasping to things and pushing things away and not willing to,

You know,

Accept things as they are.

See things as they are.

And not to let our minds be shaken by the things that happen to everyone.

I mean,

Death doesn't only happen to me and to my loved ones.

It happens to everyone in old age sickness and,

You know,

Lose loss and gain.

Like these are things that everyone experiences,

Right?

And so I think there's a powerful message here where the Buddha is actually trying to,

You know,

Expand their mind and trying to get us to connect with all beings that,

You know,

This is just the way things are.

And,

You know,

The Buddha also says that,

Well,

You know,

There's this cause for a problem and we all kind of share in this.

We all share this,

You know,

So it's not only me.

I'm not the one who's wrong.

I'm not the special one in a bad sense.

Like,

You know,

I'm the only bad person in the world.

Everyone else is doing fine.

No,

We all share in this.

We're all in this both together.

We're all in this calamity together.

And so then the Buddha points out this problematic part or this difficult part in order for us to let us know,

Well,

If there's a cause,

Then if we remove the cause,

We'll remove the result of suffering.

So it's kind of a very like it's like the good message,

Right,

That the Buddha is giving us like,

Hey,

There's a way to get rid of all of this.

That's why I'm explaining it to you.

If you know the causes and conditions for suffering,

Then you can be free from suffering.

So then comes the third noble truth,

Which is freedom,

Nirodha,

Cessation or nirvana,

Extinction.

Extinction of what?

Sometimes that sounds negative to us,

Right,

Too,

Like extinction.

Like what's going to happen?

Like we're all going to just disappear.

But it's the extinction of the three fires,

The three flames,

Right,

Of greed,

Hatred and delusion.

We can say ignorance.

It's turning off of all anger,

Sadness,

Grief,

Lamentation,

Sorrow,

All the negative things.

Everything gets turned off,

Right?

So that's what we're talking about,

Letting go of all these things.

And then we have the path,

Which is the Noble Eightfold Path.

So really the Buddhist just kind of wants us to acknowledge what's happening.

Just acknowledge these things,

Right?

Let's understand these things.

And that's really the message of the Four Noble Truth.

It's kind of just like a basic framework.

And it's kind of like a bitter pill that you need to swallow in the beginning,

Too,

Right?

Like,

Hey,

This is our situation and this is what's going on and we have to address it.

This is the path to address it.

And you know what?

There's good news.

We can overcome this together.

I love that explanation.

I mean,

I almost feel like the Four Noble Truths when he was talking to his five former disciples who became his first disciples as the Buddha,

That was like the first TED Talk in history,

Probably.

He had it all down and they're like,

Wow,

This is great,

Right?

But you're exactly right.

As I just mentioned before,

He's a great physician for us as it relates to dukkha,

Suffering.

And so we have a very much a affect cause,

Affect cause approach to the Four Noble Truths.

So it's not like cause and effect.

He's doing effect and a cause.

He's like right up front,

You know,

Hey,

There's suffering here.

He's trying to grasp your attention,

That elevator pitch type thing.

And then he tells us why it is.

And so we're almost getting like,

You know what?

You're sick.

And I've always been struck by this in the Four Noble Truths because he did this for a purpose.

He's like,

I need to almost like shock people right away because we are so ignorant of the truth.

I mean,

He was really as the Buddha of our era,

He's bringing back the teaching.

So no one's really hearing this before.

Like right now,

We got all these books and videos and everything about Buddhism.

There was nothing,

You know,

He rediscovered the truth.

And so he's going right off the bed,

You know,

Right to these people,

Right?

Never heard this before in his life,

In your lives and trying to explain it.

So he's like,

You guys are sick.

And what are you sick with?

You're sick with dukkha.

Here's why.

And then so it's really much like this,

This grim,

Very much scary type thing,

Like,

Oh,

They're suffering here and here's why.

But then he gives us the path out of that.

He's like,

You know,

The prognosis is good.

You know,

You can have nirvana,

Nirvana,

This is your true state.

You're not going to be ill anymore.

You're not going to be sick.

Then here's how to do it.

The Eightfold Path.

So this effect,

Cause,

Effect,

Cause,

It always,

At first it struck me as weird.

Like,

Why is it effect,

Cause,

Effect,

Cause?

But he had to do that to show you what was going on,

Just like a doctor.

Like you're going into the ER.

Yeah,

I don't even know why I'm here,

Right?

Like,

You're sick.

You know,

Look,

You know,

You got a bullet hole or something like that,

Right?

And we're just so blind to it.

And then he's like,

Don't worry,

We can save you.

And your state,

After we save you,

Is going to be healthy.

And the way to get to there is through this medicine,

This path I'm giving you,

Right,

This recovery.

And so as,

You know,

Lay Buddhists,

The Four Noble Truths,

You know,

Really does summarize Buddhism for us,

But it's so much more than that.

I think a lot of like new Buddhists focus on it,

Which is great.

You know,

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

That shows us,

You know,

The core right there,

But wow,

You know,

There's just so much more to really understand about Buddhism.

And I think that takes us into,

Before we go there,

You talk about the Three Fires,

I think that was a great,

You know,

Example as well.

We call it Three Poisoners,

Three Fires.

We're constantly fueling these fires,

You know,

This thirst is clinging,

Is craving.

We're just,

Would you want to be burning?

Would you want to be ingesting poisons?

No,

But we're doing that every single day,

Whether that's small,

You know,

Burning or poisons or major,

Depending on the situations.

But we don't really see the connection.

The Buddha is showing us the connections here and he's showing us,

You don't have to have this happen and here's how to get out of it.

So remarkable.

I think,

You know,

We're thinking something 2600 years ago today,

We're still talking about and still impressed with because it's so simplistic,

But deep and meaning for us.

So it takes us into the fourth noble truth,

Which is the path to liberation,

To freedom,

Nirvana and abhana.

And so with that,

That is the the past that all the Buddhist traditions are following it in different ways in Theravada.

It's very much focused and you see in Mahayana,

That's still foundation,

But we have things like the six perfections and Bhoisatva path that are taking.

But that's still the decor of all these Buddhist traditions is what the Shakyamuni Buddha,

Gautama Buddha taught.

And so as a Buddhist monk,

When you have laypersons asking you about the Eightfold Path or even how to start their practice,

Do you reference the Eightfold Path or in what ways do you actually do that or how do you explain it?

Yeah,

Alan actually,

I think it's very important to address this in the beginning except especially because there's so many misperceptions or misconceptions about what Buddhism is.

So what I've noticed,

You know,

Here in the West is that people,

They try to start the Eightfold Path from the other side.

They're trying to start with concentration and mindfulness and they're trying to work their way backwards through the path.

So I find it very,

Very important to address it and share these teachings of the way that we're supposed to follow it.

Most traditions have an understanding of the gradual path,

Right?

And step by step you're going to get there.

So in the beginning,

We have to see like,

Well,

What did the Buddha do in the beginning?

We just talked about it.

He shared the Four Noble Truths and that Four Noble Truths is the first step actually.

The first step in the Noble Eightfold Path is to understand these Four Noble Truths.

It's not a complete understanding,

Right?

It's not like transcended wisdom understanding.

If you have that,

Then you're already free.

You're awakened if you have the full understanding of the Four Noble Truths.

But it's just like a provisional understanding to wake you up to what you need to do,

Right?

So there's a little awakening in the beginning and then there's the large awakening at the end.

So even in the beginning when you're like,

Oh wow,

You know,

Like there is a problem.

There is suffering.

That's already a little awakening.

That's called Prajna Panya,

Wisdom.

You have some wisdom.

Now you're aware.

You're not completely delusional,

Completely ignorant.

You have some knowledge.

Right.

And that's going to motivate you to change,

Right?

And that's the second step,

The three motivations.

The motivation of letting go,

The motivation of loving kindness and the motivation of compassion,

Right?

And once you're motivated in this way,

You're going to act that way.

That means you're going to have,

You know,

Speech,

Actions and livelihood that comes from a place of letting go,

Which means non-greediness,

A place of loving kindness,

A place of compassion.

You have the next three steps,

Right?

So now we got five done already.

Then from then you move forward into the meditative,

Like formal meditation practice where you're actually working with the mind and with thoughts and with emotions.

And in this one,

You try to,

You know,

Protect yourself from things that can trigger unwholesome states from arising before they arise.

And then,

You know,

It's hard to avoid everything because maybe you run into your neighbors or your mother-in-law or whoever,

Your coworker.

Something's going to trigger you and a whole unwholesome thought state will arise.

What do you do then?

The Buddha says,

Well,

This is how you eliminate it,

Right?

This is how you calm it.

This is also within the sixth step in the Noble Eightfold Path.

And not only that,

But,

You know,

You should just be cultivating wholesome states all the time,

The Buddha says,

Like all the time.

That's Bhavana to cultivate all the time wholesome states.

Not only that,

But you should continue this practice,

These three trainings of protecting yourself from unwholesome states arising,

Eliminating unwholesome states when they do arise,

Cultivating wholesome states.

You should keep this practice all the time.

And then we get to the seventh step,

Which is the practice of mindfulness,

Right?

And not just any kind of mindfulness,

Right?

The proper or correct or wholesome mindfulness,

You know,

Sammasati,

Because mindfulness,

You know,

Very direct focus or concentration can be misused also.

So then the Buddha teaches us how to properly be mindful,

Right,

In the proper way.

And then from there,

We get into the Samadhi,

Right,

The deep absorption,

Concentration,

Or states of stillness that help us,

You know,

Be temporarily free from the five hindrances,

Or we can just say from unwholesome states.

When we're in Samadhi,

Sammasamadhi,

We are free temporarily from unwholesome states.

So then that kind of gives us like a catalyst or a moment of revelation or,

You know,

A paradigm shift and seeing,

Wow,

This is possible.

This is possible.

I can be completely free from unwholesome states,

Right?

And that motivates us to start again from the beginning.

It reinforces or it gives us insight into the Four Noble Truths more,

Right,

That it is possible to be free from suffering.

It is possible to eliminate the causes of suffering,

Right?

And then you keep practicing.

And that's why the Eightfold Path is more like a wheel too,

Right?

It's not like you start from one to eight.

It's just like all connected.

Just the best way to get in is through the first step,

Right?

But we have to think about it as like a cycle that's always kind of regenerating itself,

Recycling itself.

So this is the way,

You know,

That I think is most useful to think about,

To think about the Noble Eightfold Path.

And I think it's so important for so many of us in the West because,

You know,

Most of us are attracted to meditation.

A lot of us that come in as Westerners and we kind of have to like take serious what the Buddha said and follow,

You know,

His recipe and like how to make this enlightenment cake.

And,

You know,

And then we try to worry too much about the frosting in the outside in the beginning,

You know,

For focus on really having to make sure you have all the right ingredients in there and you follow all the steps.

And then I'm sure you'll get your awakening piece of pie.

I like that.

Yeah.

So you'll eventually get that that that pie.

Right.

So,

Yeah,

I like how you also mentioned like this is like a wheel.

It's just not like you know,

You're going to you're going down a road,

But you know,

It is a wheel.

Right.

And we see that very much in Buddhist illustrations,

Iconography and stuff like that.

We see that wheel right there for the eight full path.

So when we talk about you know,

Dukkha,

You know,

I think now I'll probably get this a little bit wrong,

But that's not a perfectly round wheel.

You know,

If we really kind of break down what that means and we have I think it's sukha,

Which is the perfectly round wheel.

So we're trying to give us this eight full passes to get that perfectly round wheel of your life,

If you will,

Or kind of like what we're trying to achieve here in Buddhism,

And they're all connected,

You know,

You just can't have one without the other and I really like that about the eightfold pass to we have,

You know,

That that threefold training where basically we see how they are all interconnected.

So monastics lay persons,

You know,

You follow this threefold training,

Like,

Well,

I want to make sure you know,

I gain wisdom,

You know,

That that category of the eightfold path,

But I also have to work on my my livelihood and my conduct,

But also,

You know,

My concentration.

So it's all these different components,

You know,

Working together,

You know,

If we were perfect on that morality conduct lifestyle portion,

You know,

And or just a wisdom everything else would fall into place,

But we're not going to be and we may be a little bit more stronger,

Maybe on one aspect or another,

Like,

You know,

You could be a good meditator,

Maybe I'm good,

You know,

On this portion of lifestyle,

We just have to kind of balance this out through the different practices.

And I think as we're on this eightfold path portion right here,

You know,

A lot of lay persons,

Westerners look at that as their well,

Okay,

This is how I should do my Buddhist practice and we did talk about that somewhat.

So I want to kind of briefly kind of like merge into Buddhist practice,

Right?

So,

You know,

What do I do as a new Buddhist or someone interested in Buddhism?

And we can look at the eightfold path and the threefold training.

But I think what we see with Westerners,

They want to go very much the philosophy route or intellectual route and like,

Well,

I don't want to do this what I'm seeing at the temple or I don't really understand this,

So I'm not going to do that.

And,

You know,

I mentioned this before,

My personal experiences have been like,

Yeah,

I thought that in the beginnings as well,

Like,

Why is that even a ceremony or a practice?

And then you understand sometimes that the deeper meanings,

Yes,

There can be cultural,

But there's different ways of understanding the Buddhist teachings.

And I think I talked to you about before,

Like,

You know,

Bathing a Buddha.

I'm like,

Why are we bathing a,

You know,

Little baby Buddha?

Like,

What is the purpose of this?

But when you learn a deeper meaning,

You're like,

Well,

That's really skillful.

You know,

It's just interesting ways of practicing Buddhism,

Interacting with,

You know,

The Sangha community,

Including,

You know,

Dharma friends that you have there,

And just learning about Buddhism and practicing it and shaping your conduct and morality.

So what is,

You know,

Some suggestions you would have for somebody just starting off in Buddhism?

You know,

So we got our book here,

Right?

You know,

That shows them kind of the basics here.

And we also do talk about how to start a practice and go to a temple and stuff like that.

But what would be some of your just like just,

You know,

Here's the first things you should do as someone interested in Buddhism.

Yeah,

You know,

I kind of have to go back to what the Buddha said,

Too.

I think the Buddha said it best.

He said generosity,

Dana,

Giving.

That's the first thing you should do.

The Buddha went to such an extent that he said if beings understood,

You know,

The power of giving,

If they understood how important it was,

They would give everything away,

You know?

They wouldn't have any food left.

They would share a meal with every single being all the time because the power of giving is so great,

You know?

So I think that's something even many Buddhist practitioners,

You know,

In general,

Whether east or west,

Kind of,

You know,

Forgotten charity,

You know?

There's a big emphasis on charity and giving.

And the Buddha says it's good to give even to people,

You know,

That we may not agree with their actions,

People that we would consider bad people.

It's still good to give to them.

And the Buddha says it's even good to give to,

You know,

Like animals or even an ant or a fly or any it's always good to give,

Right?

Because that takes us towards being selfless,

Right?

The ultimate goal,

Like super selflessness,

Which is no self,

But even in a mundane selfless level where we stop just thinking about ourselves and we start thinking about others.

And once we do that,

Once we develop this dana,

This thing of giving,

It automatically leads us to sila,

The good behavior,

Right?

So first we're like,

Okay,

We should give to others.

We understand that it's good to give to others.

And then we're like,

Well,

We don't want to hurt others either,

Right?

We learned that other people are important,

That other people have needs.

So through the practicing of charity and giving,

We get to see the suffering in others.

You know,

We get to see the need out there and then we're like,

Well,

I don't want to contribute to that unwholesomeness.

So I'm going to practice self-restraint,

Right?

I'm not going to indulge in hurting living beings.

I'm not going to indulge in stealing and robbing.

I'm not going to indulge in speech that hurts others.

So really,

You know,

We first need to focus on giving,

Being more generous,

And it doesn't have to be money.

Sometimes when we think about giving,

We're thinking about giving money.

But it's anything.

I mean,

You can give your time.

You can give effort.

You can give a smile.

You know,

All these little moments of selflessness,

Of compassion,

Of loving kindness are really ways of letting go.

And even for a monk,

The monk's path starts off before you even become a monk by letting go,

Right?

Renouncing the world.

But even as a lay person,

It starts off just letting go,

Letting go of thinking me,

Myself,

And I,

And how about us start thinking about others?

So my first thing would be like,

You know,

Get over yourself.

Be selfless.

Stop thinking about yourself.

The Buddha tells the monks,

When you wake up in the morning,

Instead of thinking,

What would I like to do today,

You should think,

What would these other venerables like to do?

And whatever they would like to do,

I'm going to do that.

So in the beginning,

We can be generous.

We can practice charity.

We can give our time,

Our attention,

Our love,

Our kindness.

Think about others and start practicing giving.

I think there's something really important that I think overall in general,

Not only Westerners coming into Buddhism,

But all Buddhists should really focus on this aspect of the path.

Yeah,

I love that.

And that was actually,

I was reading something about,

You know,

Westerners and giving as far as it relates to Buddhism very recently,

Where that's not really a focus and it really should be.

And you're absolutely right.

We are so consumed with this love of I,

Self,

You know,

And all the deep meanings that the Buddha talked about was that that it spurs on that three fires,

Greed,

Anger,

You know,

Ignorance,

Delusion,

And it's we don't see that connection,

That that's why Buddhism is here,

That the religion and the practices and everything else to help us see that.

And one major way to do that is through giving and you're absolutely right.

Doesn't have to be monetary.

You know,

It could be many different things.

It could even be volunteering at your temple.

It could be not even an Buddhist aspect,

Just helping out at maybe a food shelter or something like that,

Or letting somebody cut in front of you on the freeway,

You know,

Anything,

You know,

Can,

Can really help because you are not only giving,

You know,

To somebody else,

But you're also helping to shape and transform yourself as well.

You're trying to clean that window,

You know,

That,

That belief in self and that those three fires,

Three poise,

And we're trying to dampen those down and hopefully eventually nirvana,

Nirvana,

Get rid of them completely,

You know,

That's that's what we're trying to get to.

But giving is so important and I love that you mentioned it because I think that's something more we have to do.

And that's why I see it in,

Especially in Buddhist countries,

Very much the giving to monastics is not just cultural,

It's just part of you know,

How you grow up and you give,

You go to temple,

You give there.

That's something I think we don't have in the West,

You know,

Or as much of,

But you can still do it.

There's different ways and you gave some examples as well.

So absolutely want to do especially some wholesome giving as well.

So if you are a Buddhist and you got a temple,

Absolutely give to your temple and that could also be your time.

So if you don't have money,

Great.

You maybe there's time you can,

You can volunteer or clean up something,

But we sometimes go,

Well,

I'm too busy for that,

You know,

Or I got this other thing to do.

Okay.

You know,

We're all busy,

But we are trying to be Buddhist for a reason.

So as we do that,

You might find it sometimes where,

Okay,

Well,

Maybe I was rude to this person this one time,

Or I didn't give in this way,

Or I thought this it's very much like going to the gym.

You know,

We are doing pushups here and some days we're going to,

So to speak suck at the gym,

You know,

Like,

Oh man,

This really hurts.

I don't want to do it anymore.

But you know,

If we want to continue on that path,

We have to do it.

And this is a long path.

I think for Westerners,

You know,

As we kind of close this out,

Westerners are very much focused on that enlightenment portion.

Like I'm going to be enlightened next month.

I have a to do list.

It's going to happen,

You know,

Whatever,

But that's highly unlikely to,

You know,

To happen.

So we got to continue these practices,

Right?

Yeah,

You know,

And I'd say the best way to start practice is start at home.

So if you live with your spouse,

You know,

When you wake up in the morning,

Hey,

I wonder what they would like to do.

I wonder what they would like to have for breakfast.

How about I make what they want for breakfast?

How about I let them use the bathroom first,

Right?

You know,

And if you don't have a spouse,

Then maybe your brother or sister or your siblings that you live with or your roommate,

You know,

From the moment that you wake up,

Start thinking about,

Well,

You know,

Let me be in service of others.

That's a great way to start.

When you start at home,

Too,

You see the results fast.

You know,

It's not so abstract.

You're contributing to a temple or to a bigger organization or international organization.

You may not see the impact,

Right?

It might just get lost on you.

Well,

Like I'm just one person in this temple of hundreds of people or in this organization or in this world of billions of people.

But when you start at home,

You'll notice the results right away and your family members will be a lot happier,

Which will mean you'll be a lot happier,

Too.

So,

I mean,

The power of the practice is immediate,

You know,

If you start at home,

If you start right away,

Right now in this moment.

You know,

Even as you're listening to this,

Once you finish,

You should be thinking,

You know,

What can I do for someone else?

Instead of thinking about what I'm going to have for breakfast,

Lunch or dinner today or what I want to go to the movies or whatever I want to do or whatever I want to order,

If you love Amazon,

Think about others.

You know,

What's on my friend's wish list?

Instead of buying myself something this week,

How about I look at my friend's wish list and I get them what they would like?

I think we blew a lot of people's minds right here,

Right?

Well,

Wait a minute.

Isn't it just meditation or chanting or something like,

Hey,

You can start right off with giving.

Doesn't require anything special,

No special room.

And it is absolutely a Buddhist practice because we saw that even in the time of the Buddha and throughout Buddhist history,

Right?

It continues to this day.

So,

Yeah,

I love that.

And I'm wondering if people are going,

Well,

Wait a minute,

But I have to meditate.

Yes,

You can meditate,

You can do things,

But start where you are and transforming your conduct and your lifestyle is so important on that Buddhist journey.

That's brilliant.

But let me,

You know,

The one thing you know.

I've been counting toward a point that makes me want to go back throat,

Chest,

Rib,

$.

Well,

Back to breath mass,

Sending deeply forehead that exacerbated a path and colonizes Georgia's mind.

Yes,

That's right.

I had probably 20 to 30.

I did that at the beginning of the much for coming on this episode.

Is there anything that you would like to share before we end?

Yeah.

You know,

Sometimes as Westerners,

We're a bit over critical of ourselves,

You know,

And we compare ourselves to others and the Buddha said,

We shouldn't compare ourselves to others in any case,

We shouldn't think that we're better.

We shouldn't think that we're worse and we shouldn't think that we're equal.

Because we all live the different life.

We all have different experiences.

At the end of the day,

The Buddha said,

We shouldn't look towards others.

We should just focus on our own practice.

And as long as we're working towards,

You know,

The end goal,

It doesn't matter if we step back,

You know,

Take three forward and five back,

Or even one forward and 10 back,

You know.

We have some recognition of what is the proper way to do things,

The skillful way,

Or the good way to do things.

And we should at least value that,

That we're attempting,

We're trying to change,

You know.

So if maybe you can't sit for 30 minutes as you know,

Or you can't give a lot,

Or maybe you're isolated and you can't do all these things that we're saying,

It's very difficult for you.

But you at least have an idea to start,

Right?

You're here.

That is a big thing.

If you think about the whole Buddhist cosmology,

Like how long Buddha people,

Beings are in delusion,

They're in delusion for like many universes,

Right?

Like,

We can't count it.

So this little moment that you had this little awakening of like,

Wait a minute,

I can do something.

That's a huge step,

You know,

Like that doesn't happen often in samsara and this kind of cosmic view of the world.

So give yourself a pat on the back,

Give yourself a hug,

Show yourself some self-compassion and be like,

Hey man,

I'm getting it started.

And that's great.

Absolutely.

And I'll link to in the description here to our book Buddhism in 10 steps,

Also to my website and your website and social media as well.

So if you'd like to follow Bonti and see what he teaches,

Absolutely.

He has a YouTube channel and social media and everything else as well.

So I'll make sure to look,

Those links are inside the description,

But again,

Thank you for coming on and for everybody else,

I'll talk to you with you on the next episode and thank you very much for joining us.

Bye.

Thank you.