A Conversation About Resistance To Promotion

This was an honest conversation about procrastination, perfectionism, fear, the difficulty of promotion, inner thoughts about sales to overcome, and feeling safe to show up authentically and surrender.

There is so much wisdom and depth explored here in a vulnerable and uplifting way - I hope that whoever listens will get ideas about whatever it is they want to promote and will enjoy the real moments in the conversation.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Clearing the Creative.

This is a podcast that is all about giving people the practical tools that they need to work through their creative block,

Whilst also diving into the inner beliefs and inner struggles that can also play a huge part in the struggles.

It was wonderful to talk to Deb Flanagan,

Who is a teacher content creator on the Insight Timer app.

In this conversation,

We dived into struggles with procrastination,

The resistance to promotion,

Not wanting to come across salesy and annoying,

And just wanting to feel safe in how you show up and how you put your heart and soul project out there.

There was a lot of nuggets of wisdom in here and it was a delight to talk to Deb and I wish her all the best with her wonderful game and this dream that she has to see it make a difference with people.

So let's jump in.

Hello Deb,

Welcome to Clearing the Creative,

I'm so excited to have the chance to talk with you.

Thank you Katie,

I appreciate the opportunity.

Yeah,

So can you share a little bit about the project at hand that you feel this passion for but you also feel this block towards?

Yeah,

Sure.

I've created a game,

It's called the Game of Insight.

So it's a board game at the moment and it's developed well enough to play,

I've played it in person,

I've run workshops in person and online and I've only had positive feedback so far about the game.

So my next steps are to get it professionally developed which I have been,

You know,

Procrastinating over or there's been roadblocks and certain avenues in regards to that which is slowly breaking down.

So like I've had some blocks and now they're blowing a little bit which is good but I seem to have a bit of resistance with promotion,

I myself seem to have just generally issues with promotion,

I seem to go through phases of,

You know,

Feeling really good and positive and out there and then other times I kind of just,

You know,

Don't do anything because life gets in the way or what have you,

Whatever excuse I make for myself.

So yeah,

I feel like there is some resistance with regards to putting the game out there more like even contacting businesses as a form of team building,

Exercise,

Etc.

So yeah,

I think it's mostly around promotion and then also the next steps are to create a facilitated training program which is something I've,

You know,

It's been in the back of my mind but I haven't actually actioned anything other than an outline for what that might look like.

So yeah,

There seems to be a bit of procrastination because a lot of this has been thought about or talked about for a little while but hasn't actually been actioned.

Mm-hmm,

Yeah,

Promotion is just like this huge block for so many of us and it's,

The first question that popped into my head as you said that was how do you feel when you see other people promote their things when you're scrolling on your whatever social media of choice you comfortably land on the most often?

I think it depends on the individual.

Some people seem to do it really naturally and then some people seem to be a little bit over the top,

I think,

You know,

So I think it kind of just depends on the individual.

What does over the top look like to you?

Over the top to me looks a bit like,

Oh,

Maybe it's just because they're really confident and maybe that's what I,

Maybe that's what I secretly admire but I guess over the top for me is almost like too showy,

If you know what I mean,

So.

Like too showy of results,

Credentials?

No,

Not necessarily that,

Just,

Just themselves perhaps,

Like too showy in regards to sexual perhaps,

Or I'm not sure.

As in like,

Like using their,

Their very well-toned body in pictures to,

To kind of showcase themselves?

Are you following a lot of fitness people or?

Not necessarily fitness people,

No.

No,

Maybe just more from a sexual point of view,

If that makes sense.

I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah,

Anyway,

I don't know,

But.

Is it,

Because it's like digging deeper,

I have a friend who always says like,

You know,

The first time you ask somebody,

How are you,

You're going to be fine.

It's going to be good.

Like,

You have to ask like three,

Four,

Five,

Six,

Seven times to really get to the answer of how are you really?

And so asking ourselves really,

Okay,

What bothers me about this post?

What bothers me about this behavior from my child?

Whatever it is,

Asking deeper,

Asking again,

But why,

But why,

But why to get to those answers of what is it?

I've been on a journey recently of seeing,

Wow,

I project all of my insecurities onto others.

I don't think I have any insecurities.

I think I'm fine.

But other people,

They really think I'm a failure.

So it's really interesting to recognize those things.

So do you think that some people promote too often and you're like,

Oh,

I don't want to do that.

I don't want to be come across as annoying or in people's faces.

I think I do pull back because I feel like I don't want to just promo or I don't want to come across salesy and that sort of thing.

So yeah,

I think that stops me perhaps from doing promotion sometimes.

Do I think other people are,

I don't know,

I'm trying not to be too absorbed by social media if I'm honest.

So I guess certain platforms do just feel like a big sales pitch.

It's about wanting to wanting to feel authentic and where I feel safe to show up,

If that makes sense.

Oh,

Absolutely.

Some of it you do for self-expression and for your own confidence and to help others,

But it does get to a point where you have to be conscious of where you're spending your time and energy.

An efficient thing to do it in this could keep doing it in this way,

Right?

So yeah,

And for somebody like me,

Who's doesn't have endless energy,

Like I'm not a generator,

If you know about human design,

I'm a projector.

Yeah,

I'm a projector.

So I don't have this boundless energy to have the energy to be constantly putting myself out there and creating lots of content.

So yeah.

So where do you share yourself?

When was the last time you wrote something that really felt like you or shared a picture that really felt like you,

That really felt like this is the me that is true and that I want to put out there that people can resonate with?

Well,

That's all the content I put on Insight Timer.

It's my poems.

It's my channel messages.

Yeah,

I think.

And that's what I do like about it is that I get to see what my creative gifts and how that impacts people,

You know?

And yeah,

So that is rewarding when you get a notification that somebody's made a comment and then you go read it and then I really needed to hear that right now.

And,

You know,

So that kind of does keep you going,

I think,

To a certain extent.

Yeah.

Then you've got this other thing,

This big project you've been working on for years that is actually an avenue to make money.

And like,

How do I bring people over to it?

Yeah,

Exactly.

How do I share without being salesy?

Obviously,

There could be some things in regards to the game that I could record elements because it is about auras and chakras and things like that,

That I could create some content on Insight Timer and all that.

So at the moment,

My content's a bit all over the place.

It is kind of Insight Timer is just my freedom of expression,

I suppose.

Substack for me,

I might navigate that to being more around the game,

Perhaps.

Because marketing,

I feel like,

Is not just talking about the thing,

Of course,

But also showing glimmers of yourself and what you care about.

Because sometimes putting out our unpopular opinions is so good and vital to thin out the herd so that we really are attracting the right people.

It's like,

If you're a person who curses,

Curse!

Don't let people be surprised about that when they meet you.

Put yourself out there so that people know what you see is what you get.

And talking about the thing,

Talking about the struggles of the thing.

I have this thing and it's so hard to put it out there.

So people are in on the journey with you and rooting for you.

Oh,

Wait,

That's bad Australian,

Isn't it?

In American English,

That's not a bad word.

That's fine.

I know what you mean,

Yeah.

People are on your side and excited to see how the journey goes of like,

Oh,

I'm meeting with a person to see about getting this done professionally now.

And this is how,

Like vlogging,

Have you ever done any vlogging?

Not really,

No.

Okay,

Vlogging,

This is the thing.

Some people think that it has to,

This is what it is.

It's 26-year-old beautiful women with the cheekbones and the,

Okay,

Guys,

Today I'm going to put this makeup on.

And some people think vlogging is,

What's up,

Everybody?

But it can also be middle-aged moms on a journey because other middle-aged moms maybe are really looking to connect with people on a journey that they resonate with.

It's like watching content online is kind of like dating.

It's kind of like,

Okay,

Who do I connect with enough to want to spend time with?

Yeah,

I love that.

That's a good analogy.

Yeah,

Okay.

I want to take a minute to think now because I'm like,

I feel like I'm going blah,

Blah,

Blah,

But I'm not like listening,

You know what I mean?

Oh,

I know what I can do.

It's a fun little experiment.

I have these cards that I made myself.

So I thought,

This sounds way too complicated.

It's like 8 billion combinations.

And I had these cards that I already made.

And I was like,

What if I could use those?

What if I could use my own art?

Mm-hmm.

So you can have a little fun experiment and see if there's something for you in there.

Okay,

Sounds good.

I love meeting other magical,

Just open to whatever people.

It's so exciting.

I grew up actually Christian thinking everything like is new agey is evil and demons.

Wow.

I know,

Right?

Channelers.

Oh,

That's just more demons.

That's so funny.

I'm so thankful to be open to wonder and just to be in a whole different world and mindset out of judgment and fear.

I was trying to pray,

But not knowing who to last night.

And then I got this like fully formed thought in my head of,

You learned how to pray wrong.

I'm like,

Oh.

So what did you pray to?

Or what did you ask for?

I don't know what I'm praying to,

But I was just like,

I want,

But wanting to call in abundance,

Wanting to call in belief in myself and,

Yeah,

Money too.

Like we're all needing it.

We're all calling in this belief that all those things are going to come and I can create my own future and my own,

I can call in things and like wanting to kind of praying to just believe that and be able to do that.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

Do you,

What do you pray to?

Or do you pray?

I don't really pray per se.

What I would,

I wouldn't really call it praying.

I guess I open up and what I call a tune in.

So tuning in and to my higher self,

More or less.

Is your higher self what you channel or do you know what you channel?

I don't really know what I,

Like,

Yeah,

I would say it's my higher self.

I'm not one of these people that say,

Oh,

I channel,

You know,

I channel,

But yeah,

The council of delight.

I'm not,

I don't have any affiliation with dragons.

I don't have any affiliation with fairies or,

You know,

Michael.

Yeah.

None of that.

No.

So it's just to me,

It's just like everything is one,

Right?

Everything is one.

So ultimately we just wanting to tune into the divine,

Right?

We're all,

We're all connected.

So for me,

Yeah,

You go finish your thought.

I'm sorry.

Um,

Well,

It's about the divine connecting into the divine and our higher self.

Right.

So it's all one anyway.

So,

You know,

Whether you call it God,

Where you call it the universe,

Whether you call it your higher self,

Whether you call it,

Whatever you call it,

It's,

It's,

It's all one in the same,

You know,

Labels are kind of irrelevant in my mind.

Yeah.

Okay.

So this is the card that I pulled.

Oh,

That looks scary.

What does it say?

It looks scary,

But it also looks kind of cute and innocent to me somehow.

Okay.

You should explain what the picture is.

If this goes to insight timer and they don't know what we're talking about.

There's a very,

It's got the word sit with it.

And next to that is a very large bowl of cereal.

And then front and center is a skeleton.

But I think it's a very,

Very old skeleton.

I think it might be some kind of middle evolution kind of thing.

It doesn't look like the normal human skeleton,

Does it?

No.

It's much smoother all around.

It doesn't have like the normal human definition.

Yeah.

And I don't know,

The expression of it just seems really like calm,

Like really like thoughtful.

Contemplative.

Yeah.

It's just,

It seems very childlike and very not just,

Just a complete lack of judgment.

Just like,

Like it doesn't need anything.

Yeah.

I like that.

It's nice to feel like you don't need anything,

Isn't it?

Yeah.

And the bowl of cereal is just so comforting too.

Like,

I don't know about you,

But cereal is such comfort.

It is for my kids.

I have porridge,

So I don't really have cereal,

But my closest to cereal would be porridge.

So yes,

That's comforting because it's warm.

For me,

It's warm.

It's just,

It's just what you,

You know,

What exactly what you're going to get.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sit with it immediately brings,

Makes me think of just,

Are you,

And what we were just talking about your connection with,

With all that is,

Is how often are you connecting with that sense of inner divinity and calm and connectedness before you go out to make your posts,

Make your connections with people,

Put your,

Put your game out there?

Um,

Obviously not enough.

That doesn't,

There's no judgment attached.

It's so easy.

It's so easy to compartmentalize things and be like,

This is work.

This is spiritual life.

This is exercise.

This is family time.

And to put yourself in these little waffles,

Little waffle boxes of life.

And it's like,

But it's all connected,

Isn't it?

So showing up as your best self for all of those aspects is sitting with it.

Finding that comfort,

Finding that place where you're,

Where you're sharing from peace and not,

Ooh,

Not needing anything.

Yeah.

There's a person that I've connected with very fascinating person.

He's like a human lie detector.

And if someone thinks that they're telling the truth,

But he can sense it and he like feels it like physically in his body,

He's like,

Oh,

That's BS.

Yeah.

That's not it.

And he,

He kind of came up with the thing of the helper's paradox,

Where the more you need to do something,

The more you just can't,

You block yourself off from it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think,

You know,

A lot of it's to do with surrender,

Isn't it?

Like you can have,

And it's kind of like,

You can have ideas of what you want to do and what you're creating and what you're planning to do.

But then ultimately you still have to go with the flow and let things unfold.

And it's,

And what it's that force versus flow.

And you know that when you're in flow and things just naturally happen without you even asking for it or expecting it or any of that,

Right?

It's like I had somebody book in for a private function of the game and I didn't even like ask her or expect it,

Or it just kind of happened.

You know,

It's usually when you're not trying or forcing things to happen or have this master plan of,

Oh,

I've got to run this workshop on this date and it's going to do,

Do,

Do,

Do.

And,

You know,

Or you might even feel that you're being led to pick a date or this or that.

And then you plan it all that way and then you don't get any bookings or whatever,

Or,

You know,

So it's kind of like a lot of the time as a friend of mine in Canada would say committed and unattached,

Right?

You're committed to your purpose or your dreams,

But you need to be unattached as to how they unfold.

And,

You know,

I think that's kind of where I'm at to a certain extent.

It's like,

Okay,

Well,

I'm here just doing swimming instructor training,

Something I did back in 2017.

And I've just finished that.

And now I'm doing that as a job and I'm actually really enjoying it.

And then I have to learn to let go of all the judgment I have on myself going,

Well,

If I was successful in my business,

I wouldn't have to do this.

And then I'd say,

Stop that right now.

You're actually enjoying this.

You love this.

You're enjoying seeing these little,

These kids and working one-on-one with them and seeing their development.

And I've only just started.

And it's like,

I really like this.

I like being in the water.

I like,

I'm getting satisfaction.

I'm taking the pressure off myself a little bit.

And that's okay.

You know,

So I think,

You know,

You talked about the whole judgment thing.

There is a lot of,

You know,

I think a lot of us,

I don't know if it's a creative thing or,

But a lot of us are so hard on ourselves and we forget to be compassionate like we are for other people to ourselves,

You know,

And also reflect on perhaps how far we have come and what we have achieved and taking that pause and that you say,

Sit with it.

Well,

I think the card I pulled earlier this week for the collective was,

Was about,

I can't remember what the card was,

But the main gist of the message was to reflect on,

You know,

How far you've come,

You know,

Before you actually move on to the next goal and the next thing and the next thing you've got to actually sit and realize,

Hang on a minute,

I have done that.

And I have achieved that.

And I,

And,

You know,

Everyone that's attended this have,

Have loved it.

So I know I'm on my path.

It may not be happening at the pace I want it to,

But just breathe and let go and let it unfold in its divine timing and divine order.

Yeah.

Kind of sounds a bit like you're channeling right now,

Huh?

Yeah,

I do.

I go into these zones and just like,

And the,

The fully formed thoughts just come out.

But isn't that like one of the Claire's,

Claire cognizance where you,

You just,

It just comes,

You know,

The knowledge of things just comes.

Yeah.

And that's when I do my,

My readings on my lives.

I do,

I do a weekly collective card pool,

And then I sometimes do individual readings.

And then what I often find,

Sometimes those readings are from my own Oracle deck.

So these are my symbols,

Which are part of my game and my Oracle or in chakra Oracle deck.

And what I find with the readings,

Whether it's from my deck or from some other Oracle deck,

Is that it all flows.

Like there's just this connection from the,

Because we're the,

We're all one.

And like the collective carpool is guidance for everyone on the call and the collective as a whole for the week ahead.

And then the individual pools,

There's always something in there that kind of connects back or connects to the next reading or,

You know,

And it just sort of almost comes full circle.

So it's really,

I love it because it just,

Things just flow and they just unfold.

And it's not the thinking mind.

It's not the ego mind.

It's just the,

You know,

It's just everything flowing through.

Yeah.

So I wanted to go back to this card.

It was interesting that the very first,

Your very first gut reaction was,

Ooh,

Scary.

And,

And that's like,

That's a feeling safe in,

In putting yourself out there and,

And the discouragement of,

Of like,

There's been that block of getting the thing professionally done for different reasons.

So it's like,

That's kind of part of it too,

This scary skeleton.

But like,

But the thing that struck me about it was,

Oh,

What a soft,

Gentle expression on its face.

I know,

You saw something completely different.

I know,

I was like,

Wow.

You know,

And,

But it also reminds me of when I was like,

My coach said to me,

He said,

Oh,

Just call 10 businesses today and ask them if they want to,

You know,

About,

Tell them about your game.

And could I,

I called,

Tried to call one and they were closed because they,

They're a Cairo business and they're typically open in the morning and then they close in the middle of the day and then they open up again in the afternoon.

Anyway,

They weren't open.

And then I'm like,

I don't want to call anyone else.

I'm just going to send an email.

So it's just like,

I backed out.

I was like,

No,

I'm just going to sit.

So it's kind of like that.

Exactly what you say.

It's like this kind of fear response.

And not letting that first response,

Not judging yourself from that first response,

But also not letting that first response keep you from trying again.

Yeah,

Yeah.

There is something so much more valuable in eye-to-eye contact,

Face-to-face,

Even video.

Like,

I hate just talking on the phone nowadays.

Like,

I want to see the face.

I want to see the expression.

There's just something so much more valuable in that.

And I've done a lot of sales over the years with,

I was with a theater company.

We had to book our programs.

And so I did so much time of talking to people.

And it was so,

We never got,

We hardly ever got bookings from cold calls on the phone.

But we regularly got bookings and we would see people face-to-face.

And we were like,

This group of young people,

Like so excited about our theater.

And like,

This is what happened in this other place.

And we love it.

And let me tell you about this play.

This play that is really special to us.

And people would always book us face-to-face.

That's good to know.

Okay.

Well,

That takes even more courage to meet face-to-face.

Did you just like,

Did you call those people or businesses first?

And then,

And like,

Did you make an appointment to go in face-to-face?

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Making those appointments could be a really good step.

Yeah.

Even being like,

And hey,

If it's the right kind of time and place,

Can we play a game together?

Can I bring this to you and I can show you how it works and we can play it?

Yeah.

Okay.

Like a little sample,

A little taster or something.

Yeah.

It's probably a pretty long game all in all,

But to give a.

.

.

It is.

Yeah.

But it's like one time I did that online in this creative group.

We did a little taster for 20 minutes and then they booked in and I had an online session scheduled and then three out of four of them booked in to play it,

You know,

The full game.

Because it goes for about two hours on average.

Yeah.

So that was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The more you can see people,

The more you can share your passion and share your.

.

.

That it comes out of your eyes.

Like I was an actor for all those years.

It's the eyes that communicate everything.

People can see the sincerity.

People can see it all and feel it all from you.

Okay.

All right.

So I need to pick up the phone to make some meeting times,

Maybe.

And then you'll find out if they're interested in,

At least in the idea,

Right?

Rather than it's easy.

It's quite easy to dismiss an email,

Isn't it?

It's harder to dismiss a phone call and then,

You know,

Yeah.

Also,

What happened to us?

My email went to your spam or trash folder,

Like.

.

.

Yeah,

That's true.

Yeah.

You never know.

I want to ask,

Do you feel like you have some ideas for things to do right away?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

So I think I'll need to sit with it.

I think I need to sit with it in regards to the platforms.

You know,

Conscious of what you've suggested there,

You know,

In regards to some other platforms to consider,

Whether that's down the track or now.

But yeah,

Definitely about,

You know,

Picking up the phone and meeting people face-to-face and maybe even little demos or.

.

.

I would say very clearly,

No maybe,

Because showing is always better than talking about.

Yeah,

True.

Because it's a hard thing to explain.

You know,

It's a really hard thing to explain and you can't.

.

.

Obviously,

Experiencing it speaks for itself,

So.

.

.

Somebody said to me,

You can't see.

.

.

When you're inside the jar,

You can't see the label.

I love that.

And that's how it is.

Like,

We have our gifts for each other.

I get so many ideas for people.

I just can't turn it off.

And I'm like,

You can do this and this and this and this and this.

And it's so fun and it's so exciting for me.

But then I need other people to tell me,

Okay,

But I see very clearly what you need to do.

Or what could help you or whatever,

Not what you need.

But yeah,

So you feel like you've got some inner work to do and some practical stuff to do?

Yeah,

Definitely.

Awesome.

Well,

I'm so,

So thankful that we could have this time and that you just went for it.

And yeah,

Let's do it today.

That's so fun.

So I really want to thank you for being willing to be vulnerable because that is not easy.

And you should be really.

.

.

Yeah,

I did.

I did that.

I had no idea what this podcast was going to be like.

And I was like,

Let's just do it.

Yeah,

Let's jump in.

The planets are aligned to do it today.

So yeah,

We made it happen.

Yay.

So thank you for that.

And yeah,

I just want to say thank you.

And the way that I end my conversations is I give hugs.

Aww,

That's cute.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

I don't know if you can tell,

But I love having these conversations.

I love being in that space of really listening with my whole heart to see what ideas I can come up with,

What encouragement I can give to help people with their blocks.

Because I just know that nothing is impossible.

There is something that we can do right now.

Some small thing that is going to give us movement towards the bigger things.

If you got some inspiration from this,

I would love to hear that.

Because the truth is we are not alone.

There are other people who understand.

There are other people in our lives that want to help that we may have not even thought to ask for help yet.

There is a community out there waiting for us all.

Thank you.