A Compassionate Conversation About Sharing The Struggle

It's such an honor how open and raw my guests are when they are sharing what is blocking their movement. I know Janne's story is going to resonate with more people out there. The struggle so many of us know is not uncommon, to be our own boss, aspects of business being harder than we thought, figuring out how to be visible, having intimate experiences with burnout, and the "normal hustle" just not being doable.

Janne Guttormsen, who is a teacher here on Insight Timer, shared her experience of discovering herself without medication and being angry at the system that makes things so difficult.
In this conversation, we dived deep and I listened to my intuition and experience and Janne was left with encouragement and practical steps to move forward.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Clearing the Creative podcast.

I'm Katie and I am here to help people with their creative blocks.

To figure out what's in the way.

To figure out what are the limiting beliefs.

How can we replace that?

What are some practical steps that can be taken towards that?

I have amazing conversations with people who are brave and awesome enough to be vulnerable with their issues.

To share for the world.

I love it.

And to let me speak to that.

I listened to my intuition.

I listened to the magic inside of me that guides me to know what questions to ask and how to dig deep.

And it's been such a powerful journey.

This conversation is with Yana.

A lovely,

Lovely lady who has frustration in her life.

In her heart.

In not knowing what her purpose is.

How to connect with the right people.

Who the right people are for her to try to connect with.

She is so capacitous and so full of love from her own journey.

And that is such a valuable thing.

We learn compassion from the experiences that we've had.

I was able to give her some encouragement.

And I just want to honor the vulnerability and rawness that she showed.

I know this conversation is going to be meaningful for others out there.

Let's just jump in,

Shall we?

Hello!

So nice to be part of your podcast.

Thank you.

So can you give us a little introduction of yourself?

Yes.

So my name is Yana.

And I'm from Norway.

I am a meditation teacher.

And just a few months ago,

I started my own company doing that.

So it's,

I'm still trying to find out what that is.

And I think that's where my,

Can you say blockage or issue lies that I'm searching for what I'm supposed to be doing in this world.

Yeah.

So like,

The company helps.

I'm off to a roaring start.

So the company,

You're not quite sure if it's the right fit for you.

What is it?

Is it something to do with the business itself?

That's feeling,

Feeling really hard and fuzzy.

It's more like now I'm my own boss.

So I can make all the decisions,

Decide everything myself.

And so I feel like I'm searching for my purpose.

And because this is something I've been baffling with since I can remember,

You know,

Since high school,

When we were to choose what to study,

And I didn't know what to pick.

So I just picked the most general study I could find in the hope that something in that would spark a joy with me.

And then I went on to university again,

With the broadest study I could find,

And still felt like it wasn't the perfect match,

But I didn't know what to swap it for.

So I just kept going.

So I ended up becoming a geophysicist of health of everything and worked a bit in the oil industry and then started working with health and safety.

And I enjoyed that more,

But still was like it wasn't exactly what I was supposed to do.

And then I experienced burnout two times.

And the second time just a couple of years ago,

I was like,

Okay,

This is it.

Now I need to find out why this keeps happening to me.

So that's when I started studying meditation.

And now I decided to leave that job and just take a leap of faith and start my own thing,

Which I like I said,

I'm not sure what is yet,

But that's where I'm at now trying to figure it out.

So meditation was,

Did you learn about meditation while you were kind of recovering from the burnout phase?

Yeah,

That was a big part of helping me to decide that the job I had was not right for me and to kind of dig a little deeper into what is meaningful to me.

And I feel like I'm onto something,

But I haven't been able to kind of grasp what it is yet.

But I feel I am absolutely on the right path.

I'm just a bit impatient,

Because I want to know what it is now.

And how long have you had this meditation entrepreneurship business?

Just since January,

I had it.

And this project is still a baby.

Yes,

It's very much a baby.

And I'm not finished with the with the study either.

Because I decided I took the longest biggest meditation teacher study I could find because I was like,

No,

I'm going to learn this properly all the way.

So I've got until January until that is finished.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it's kind of like,

Do I while figuring out how to do a business while you're still learning how to do the business?

And what's what's the hardest part about like,

The business itself that you did you just did not see coming?

I think some of the hardest is being visible.

I think like,

Like doing this,

We're doing right now is very out of the comfort zone for me.

And it's scary,

But I am I have this,

I'm on this app platform inside timer where I do lives sometimes.

And in the beginning,

It was just terrible,

Or I was so nervous,

And it was not nice at all.

But as I've kept doing it,

I am actually enjoying it now.

So I think if I hadn't done that,

I wouldn't have said yes to doing this with you.

Because that would have been too much of a step out of the comfort zone.

But now I feel like I was kind of ready to put my face on a podcast for the first time ever.

And so I think that's difficult.

And also not having anyone telling me what to do,

You know,

That is can be quite overwhelming sometimes,

Because it's all up to me.

So being visible,

Being,

Being able to say to people,

This is my offering,

This is this is what what this is the results that you can get from working with me,

Are you are you going to be kind of like a meditation coach?

Or is that what you are already doing?

And that's part of the big questions.

I don't know exactly what I want to be doing.

Other than now,

On this app,

I give lives I meditation lives where we talk a bit about what you can achieve from the particular meditation I'm doing that day.

And also have some tracks out some people can listen to.

And I enjoy that.

But it's more like,

Okay,

How do I take that further?

And yeah,

Will I become a meditation coach type?

Or will I have,

You know,

A bigger course on some topic?

Or?

Yeah,

Well,

I have a membership,

The community thing,

Or,

You know,

There's just so many options.

And so I,

I don't know.

And I wish I did know,

Like,

I wish I had this,

This passion for like,

Yes,

This is this is it.

That's where I'm going and just go 100% for that.

But that's what I'm hoping I'll get this like epiphany one day where I'm just like,

Oh,

Yeah,

Of course.

That's what I'm doing.

So as you were talking,

It was I was remembering these,

These other podcasts I've listened to.

And are you familiar with like,

Near the nearest death experience or phenomenon?

I've heard about it,

But please explain.

Well,

When people have either like died for a few minutes or some or longer or nearly died,

There's often this like superpower that comes out of that,

Like often manifesting in like psychic abilities.

So cool.

But in a way,

Burnout is a kind of death,

Because it's a death of this old normal doesn't work anymore.

I have to readjust.

And so I wonder,

And another great gift that comes out of any kind of suffering,

Any kind of loss,

Physical loss,

Ideal loss,

Whatever is a compassion for other people who've experienced that.

Because before you had your burnout,

You could never look at someone else and be like,

Oh,

I really get it.

You're like,

Work harder.

What's the matter with you?

I pushed through.

Why don't you just push through?

It's so it's so sad that we have to to go through it to really to really understand you can always have sympathy and empathy when someone's hurting,

But you don't really get it until you've been there yourself.

Unfortunately.

Yeah,

Yeah.

So just putting that out there that possibly young professionals in the in that that are headed towards or are in the midst of or are trying to put their pieces back together around a burnout,

They could be your people.

They could they could.

Another thing just that came out of all of this,

After I started the meditation and decided to leave the old job,

This this wish came like from within,

Because I've been on antidepressants for like seven years or something.

And I got this like desire to find out who I was without those medications.

So in September last year,

I took my final dose after having tapered down slowly and done it as you should,

You have to be careful with that.

And it was really hard getting off them.

It was a lot of withdrawal symptoms and all sorts of problems.

But I am so glad that I that I did that because I kind of got to rediscover who I am.

And there was this particular moment where me and my husband was sitting and listening to music a Saturday evening.

And he said,

Oh,

It's so nice that we can do this again.

And I was like,

What do you mean?

You know,

And he said,

Well,

It's been years since we've done this,

Just listening to music.

And I was like,

That's true.

I used to listen to music all the time before,

But then it's,

It's like my medicated self was not so into that anymore.

So it's pretty like,

Whoa,

Okay,

So what what other things have been like taken away?

And with a medicated state?

Did you feel the need to just be doing something all the time?

And it's hard to say I Yeah,

Maybe or a bit like,

Not finding calmness in a way,

I guess.

And it's really hard to think back how I was because I was on it for such a long time.

So it became the norm.

And but it's more like when he tells me things that I see like,

Oh,

Yeah,

Yeah,

You're right.

I didn't think about that.

Because I never felt when I felt I didn't feel really flat.

But I do feel when I look back that my mood was lower than it is.

In general,

The baseline was lower than than it is now.

And that's kind of what they promised should be the opposite.

As you were going through this,

Your body adjusting and withdrawing.

And even to now,

What are what are what are things that you wish that you had available to have someone walk along that with you?

Oh,

Yes.

Yeah,

Someone to talk to who had gone through it.

And because I did seek and what can I say,

Like companionship in Facebook groups and stuff,

Because I found some groups that were people had come off the exact same medicine as I had.

So that gave me hope and also made me feel like I wasn't crazy for feeling all this withdrawal problems and things that it was actually quite normal.

So so that was nice to have that like community.

And I did think at the time,

I was really angry with the with the system with the how easy it is to be put on these medications without being really told all these things that that they can cause and how hard it is to get off them.

So I was really like,

Oh,

I want to write a book about this.

I want to you know,

Get this out.

But now I'm really glad I didn't because it would have come from a place of anger and frustration and all these things.

Lower vibration stuff.

Yes,

Exactly.

So I'm really glad that I didn't lash out or anything.

Because the doctors are also told what to do.

You know,

It's it's not easy for them to know everything about everything.

I do see that people are talking more about these things,

Which I'm so glad about.

But I want to put it out there that there is a space for righteous anger.

And there's a season for it.

Like as I've been in the deconstructing evangelicalism thing,

There's that there's that space where you're like,

I've been lied to this sucks.

Yeah,

Why?

Why?

Why?

Why did this happen?

Who's in charge here?

And it's it is a phase.

It's a part of the journey.

So let's think about some specific aspect of your business that is specific blocking,

Like,

For example,

Putting yourself out there,

Like,

How do you put yourself out there to try to connect with your people?

Well,

I have it's mainly in the app,

That insight timer app,

Right?

That is mainly I do have a Facebook page for my business called lift.

So it's the business name,

By the way,

And it means calm,

Calm life in Norwegian.

I do have also Instagram,

But I'm I'm finding it a bit difficult to post and to,

You know,

Be on there,

Because I don't it's like I don't have a clear message.

So that links back again to Yeah,

What is my purpose?

What is what?

What do I want to say?

I find that to be to be what's stopping me,

I think.

Okay.

Yeah.

So there's there's just maybe it's not true.

But I feel like it's possible that in that anger that you experienced,

And you're like,

No,

Wait,

I don't need that.

Because that's not the higher vibration.

That's not the that's not what I'm going for.

It might have blocked other emotions,

Even the good ones.

Oh,

Yeah,

For sure.

For sure.

Absolutely.

Like how to allow yourself to feel like,

I lost years of my life that I could have been enjoying them more.

I could have been finding my purpose more to allow yourself to feel that and sit in that.

And is that's probably a big part of the meditation journey,

Isn't it?

Like shadow work and that kind of thing.

Have you done any I know,

I know the word shadow work.

I know,

It's like connecting with inner child and looking at the hard parts.

Have you done that?

Not like specifically calling it shadow work,

But it's,

But it's,

We do these deep dives,

You can,

You can say into different parts of our bodies and the chakras and,

And it's all about kind of accepting whatever comes up,

Because it can be very emotional.

And I remember the first few months when I started this study,

We used to gather for two or three days every two months.

And every time I was,

After I was totally exhausted,

I had massive headaches and so much emotions.

And I was just totally wiped out afterwards.

I was like,

What is this,

You know,

I was almost deciding to quit because I was it was just too hard.

But I think that a lot of those things that came up was this suppressed stuff that was in me that the medication had put a lid on.

And it just started to come out.

And I think also,

That's what happened when I stopped the medication because I then I felt as angry as I have ever felt against everything and everyone.

And as low as I ever felt,

Like I didn't want to be here anymore.

I Yeah,

It was really,

Really dark.

I Yeah.

And also,

I'm living in Sweden.

I know this.

I know the Swedish mentality quite okay.

For about six years.

You're not you're Norwegian.

Yes.

So we're we're kind of,

We're kind of cousins ish.

We're like step cousins.

There's a Scandinavian mentality.

There's this does Yanta login extend to Norway as well?

Yeah,

Yanta.

So for our beautiful listeners out there,

Yanta login is this horrible Scandinavian,

Like,

It's evil,

Man.

It's just this like rules of lies.

It's like,

Don't think that anyone cares about you.

Don't think your problems matter.

Don't think you're special.

Don't think anyone thinks you're special.

It's like the opposite of the American mentality.

Yeah,

It's a bit like get your ass in line,

You know?

Yeah,

Fit be be in your box where where you belong.

And there's so many things about that that are just so hurtful to carry around.

It's like,

How do you just you cut that cord of just no,

I do it matter.

My problems do matter.

My feelings are legitimate.

Yeah,

Yeah,

It's and I don't and I don't have to be in this box just because culture says that I can be different.

I can stick out.

I can be weird.

Yeah,

Very true.

Very true.

Yeah.

Yeah,

It is a bit difficult to find your way if you don't feel you fit in the box you've been put or been told to be in.

Hustle culture is so prevalent on the internet as well.

It's like it's got to hurt.

It's got to be hard.

You've got to wake up at five.

You've got to drink gross green stuff.

You've got to go to the gym.

You've got to boom,

Boom,

Boom,

Especially as entrepreneurs running our own business.

Like,

If you don't,

If it's not hurting,

You're not doing it right.

And then in the woo woo side of things,

It's it's just like,

But you've got to look for your for your purpose and your in your goal and your dream.

And if it's not daisies and butterflies and rainbows,

You're doing something wrong.

So we have these opposing we have like this Triforce,

Yantra login,

Hustle culture,

Woo woo culture,

Just making this cloud of gray,

Lack of clarity,

Lack of cohesiveness,

Like how do we integrate these things?

And I feel like it's got to be a bit of a mid some finding the middle path between them of yeah,

Yeah,

Confronting and being willing to be vulnerable with hard parts.

Use listening to your wisdom and intuition of what's the right hard parts to share.

Yeah,

But but it's not just,

Oh,

Whoa,

Is me.

I'm so I've had such a hard time.

But this was the hard time.

This is how people can relate to us.

And this is where I'm at now.

I'm not as far as I want to be,

But I'm on the way there.

And I can take you,

We can we can learn and grow together.

Yeah,

I can be a part of the messaging.

And,

And on the other side of that,

What's the joy that you're experiencing now that you can share?

What's the release?

What's the freedom that you walk in now that you didn't have before that you can share?

Yeah,

Exactly.

It's like,

I'm and the reason why I started with these antidepressants was because of PMDD,

You know,

This severe PMS called syndrome.

And that's what started the whole thing.

And I actually had an epiphany during a meditation.

And that I have always been envious of boys,

Guys that how simple they have it with they don't have any period,

They don't have all these hormone shifts and all these things.

So I was always very jealous.

So I think I have suppressed my femininity and like been angry at being a woman.

So now I'm thinking maybe that all came out through that severe PMS,

Because I was trying to push away a big part of myself.

So now I'm all about the embracing being a woman getting my period,

I'm not like so angry.

And let's say disgusted about it.

Like I used to be now I'm just like,

Okay,

Fine,

My body's working,

It's functioning in the right way since I'm getting my period.

So it's actually a sign of a sign of health.

And so I,

I've only just stopped my hormonal birth control as well just two months ago,

Just to see how it all plays out.

And I have to say so far so good.

So I'm hoping it will keep keep that way.

Because that is a,

I think a big message.

If,

If that is why I had such a hard time with the with the PMS,

And because I was suppressing a big part of myself,

Right?

Can I pop in real quick?

Yes.

If this is too personal,

We can cut it,

Of course.

But we talked when we first when we were first meeting,

We were diving right into the deep stuff.

And we did come to the point of that you are pretty sure that you don't want to have children.

And that can is that like part of it too?

Like,

Why do I have to have this bloody thing when I don't even want this function of my body?

And I have thought a lot about that lately.

And I,

I have come to a sort of a conclusion that I have never felt,

You know,

If you were in an office environment,

And somebody had a kid,

They came over for lunch with their child,

You know,

Newborn and everything.

All the ladies were always like rushing to hold and to,

You know,

Cuddle this little one.

I would never felt the need for that.

And I have never did.

And of course,

There's a part of me who is,

Who is scared that I'm going to regret when I get older,

Not having children.

But I feel like that is such a massive decision to do.

It's the biggest decision we make in life.

And if I am not sure that I do want kids,

Then that for me,

The answer gives itself then,

Then not then that's,

And that's,

I'm totally fine with that.

Yeah.

So,

So in that connection there,

Does that is that also part of just repressing femininity?

It's like,

You can still be a woman,

Your,

Your womanhood is valid without wanting children.

It's not the act of procreating.

It's like,

Oh,

Now you're a woman,

Let's have a,

You're a woman party.

Or like trans women that are totally valid and never having a period.

Yeah,

Exactly.

It's,

Yeah.

And you know,

There are lots of women who can't have kids.

Does that make sense?

Like they want to and they can't.

So they're,

And they're valid and their want is valid.

Yeah.

These are valid.

You have so many things that are realizations that are overcome moments of overcoming that are your journey in motion.

You don't have to wait till you're like,

I know for certain,

I don't want kids before you can start sharing that message out there.

Hmm.

True.

You don't have to have everything in set in stone because nobody is set in stone.

We're all evolving,

Ever evolving every day.

When I listened to this podcast,

When I'm editing it,

Maybe two months from now,

I'm going to be a different person than I am right now.

Very true.

Very true.

So we do the best what we can at this moment with,

With the knowledge and the things that,

You know,

That we have around us.

We do the best here and now.

Do you have pictures of yourself when you were on your medication and you kind of don't recognize the look in your eye?

You kind of don't know who that person is.

Probably,

But I haven't.

So this is something that you could do is you could share.

I've seen lots of people on Instagram kind of share their stories and like part one,

Part one of five.

And so they have like five posts planned out and with,

With a picture and text over it.

Yeah.

That's one way that you could do it is like,

This is me 2016.

I don't recognize this person.

I don't,

I wonder what's going on in her mind.

Like,

However you tell stories,

But you can break it into bits.

You can,

You can just share about your meditation in the morning.

How it,

How,

How it's been like to work your way up to being able to be still for longer,

How hard it was in the beginning to just be like,

Thinking about a shot,

My shopping list,

You know,

You can offer tips and,

And you can speak to that younger version of you that needed to hear that.

Some people just like really need to be validated that it's okay to not want kids and,

And to still be like struggling with that.

But I'm still struggling with,

Am I making the right decision?

Just being the real version of you now,

Speaking to that version of you four years ago is powerful and it's worth it.

It can,

You never know who your stuff is reaching.

I've had people reach out to me from my vlogs on,

I'm dropping my notebook.

I've had people reach out to me in my vlogs on YouTube and they're like,

It means so much that you shared that.

I feel,

I don't feel alone anymore.

I wish I'd had you as a friend when I was a young mom and I was overwhelmed.

You never know who things are reaching.

Some people are too shy to share when something matters,

But it matters.

It always matters to put something good out there,

Something real from our real story out there.

Yeah,

It does,

Doesn't it?

And I have to say,

I do feel very comfortable talking about all these things because it's yeah,

I can see myself some years ago,

I would have probably felt ashamed about the whole thing and everything.

And that is the worst feeling there is.

But I feel just being open about it,

It's just lifting that potential feeling of shame that I just talk about it,

That can't exist.

It's like the,

How do I say,

The antidote to shame is actually just to share and be okay to be human,

You know?

And it's like,

If you look to that version of you that was coming off of medication and feeling so,

Like,

You would say,

Like,

Don't feel ashamed.

This is normal.

You're beautiful.

It will get better.

It's like not being ashamed of a baby learning to walk,

Like,

Come on,

Get up,

Get up.

You're ridiculous.

Walk better.

Yeah,

Exactly.

That's horrible.

But it's like using the ridiculous to point out the obvious,

Like,

Nothing to be ashamed of in our struggles.

They're what makes us human,

What taught us what taught us compassion,

What they led us to who we are now.

So we wouldn't be who we are now without them.

Yeah,

Exactly.

Exactly.

Do you feel like you have some practical ideas of things that you can post and put yourself out there?

Well,

I will definitely look back on this podcast and and see that those tips that you came with,

You know,

Making that story of who I was before and actually talking to talking to me back then and what I wish I knew and also how much easier it would have been if I knew that this would be the outcome,

You know?

So I still have my ups and downs,

Of course.

Yeah,

But they are not as as dark as before.

And it's also like I can recognize that.

Yes,

I've been here before,

But I know I get out of it as well.

I know that this horrible feeling don't last forever.

And that has helped a lot to to accept that.

OK,

It's it's really shit today,

But I know it won't last forever.

Yeah.

And you know what?

Just because English reaches a lot more people,

Whoop-de-doo,

Try it in Norwegian,

Like try it for it for them.

See who comes back,

See who takes the time to respond and see what they all have in common,

What links them together.

And your people will start to form.

And then you can tailor more specifically to what they're looking for and what they're asking as you go.

So you don't have to wait until everything is clear before you start.

You just you just put yourself out in the ring and just trust that it's going to be OK.

Yes,

Very true.

Do you feel do you feel encouraged and inspired in putting yourself out there?

Yes,

More than,

Let's say,

35 minutes ago.

Well,

Thank you so much for taking this time.

I really appreciate it.

I really appreciate your vulnerability.

This is some heavy stuff and you're very brave to come and talk about it.

And I'm really I'm really thankful that we can put this out and put this goodness and this light out there for others.

Thank you so much for allowing me to be vulnerable in a safe space.

And now I feel like this was the right moment.

And even we just met online last week.

I just felt like,

Yeah,

We were meant to meet.

Yeah,

I love it.

All right.

So the way that I end my podcast is I give hugs.

I'll talk to you soon.

And thank you,

Wonderful listeners.

I will say more to you later or just now because I'll be recording and editing.

You know what I mean.

OK.

Bye.

Bye.

Thank you so much for being here for listening to this conversation.

If you'd like to be a guest on this podcast and connect with me and share from your struggles with the hopes of having me speak into that.

Let's make it happen.

The thing that I would love to leave you with is that your block is not insurmountable and your story matters.

And I hope that you will have the confidence and the joy that you desire when you want to put your story out there and connect with your people.

Thank you so much for being here.

Hugs.

Reviews

What a lovely fresh and honest conversation between two teachers. I sense you both found new aspects from this exploration 🎙️

Thank you so much for offering to interview me for your podcast! I felt so comfortable, like I was talking to a good friend 🙏🏻😊❤️

Thank you for doing this. I loved both your tracks and I am looking forward to more. Somehow both tracks resonated with me deeply. And i loved that strrugles lead to compassion.