Teaching Meditation With Authenticity With Jamie Wozny

In this conversation, Jamie joins David to share her journey as a meditation teacher, from studios to corporate sessions and retreats. She reflects on the power of authenticity, embracing imperfection, and teaching from your own lived experience as true medicine for others.

Transcript

Jamie Wozni,

Do you remember when you came and visited me in Colorado and we went and saw,

Oh my god,

What was his name?

Trevor Hall.

Trevor Hall,

That's right.

I forget his name.

That was so much fun.

I remember it was so fun.

It was the best day of my life,

That the lion roar that we heard together.

Yes,

We went and our other friend who's- Megan,

Thank you,

Who came along and we went to the big animal rescue with over 400 lions,

Tigers,

Bears,

Leopards,

And boy,

Did we have a cool time.

That was amazing.

Wolves.

Yeah,

Their sounds.

I just remember being like brought to tears with the like,

Just moved.

Yes,

It was special.

And that was really fun.

So me and you have been friends for a long time.

In fact,

You got me a teaching job a long time ago when I was teaching in Los Angeles at the Den meditation studio when it was in person pre-COVID.

So thanks for getting me a job.

Anytime.

Hey,

Look,

You're doing the same for me.

Yeah,

That's right.

Here we are.

So we're going into year three of meditation teacher training.

You've been teaching part of the group in the last two years,

And we've known each other a long time.

You still work with the Den in Los Angeles teaching.

What courses,

Classes are you teaching at the moment there and other places so people could just get a sense of what you're up to?

Yeah,

So my class there is called Liberated Self,

Which kind of sums up the vibe,

And really helping people feel safe and seen to be their true self.

And I do that in a variety of different ways.

So with them,

I teach a guided meditation class.

I've been bringing in a lot of dance into my work.

Yeah.

Cool.

Yes,

So cool.

And perfection-free zone dance.

It's not choreography.

It's literally what feels good.

That's what I need.

Yeah.

And we do because we are,

This is my vibe in these classes,

We're in performance culture,

I think,

Right?

It's like we have to prove and please and perform and get all the likes.

And I was in this singing class,

I'm kind of getting off,

But it's a great thing that I love.

And the guys said my favorite part of the singing class was find the sound that feels good and let that come out.

And I'm like,

That's so simple.

But that's what I do when I teach meditation.

That's what I do when I guide people with these dances of like,

Instead of how am I supposed to do this for this to look good or be right today?

Liberated Self to me is like,

Can I come home to what feels yummy and alive and aligned and good and let that express?

I'm also leading a soul purpose retreat because that's again,

Coming home to your essence before socialization.

With the den,

I go live on Insight Timer twice a month still.

Got meditations on there.

I have a lot of self-love courses.

That's my most popular course on there,

Profound healing through self-love.

Because I believe that is such a huge medicine to liberate ourselves and be our true self,

To hold ourselves in that container of,

I got you.

I love you.

It's okay to show up as you are today,

Which is not always easy.

And I also,

As you know,

Some of you might be interested in too,

I teach a lot of corporate meditations.

Oh,

Yeah.

I forgot.

You got me a job.

I was there for a while.

Man,

I owe you big.

No,

You already have.

No,

Man,

We just help each other out.

I owe you big.

Oh my God.

But yes,

That's some of the things.

And then I work with animals.

That is just these beautiful,

Actually had a really beautiful reading this week.

I'll keep it anonymous,

But this sweet woman was conflicted because she wanted to put her animal down because it was nearing the end of its life.

And she reached out to me and I got this immediate,

No,

No,

No,

No,

It's not time.

And usually I don't feel that.

I feel,

Okay,

It's time or you'll know.

And she was like,

I have this deep sigh of relief.

I find it like I rescheduled the appointment.

And so it's interesting.

And I think it's good because anybody that is a multifaceted being that's listening to this,

I'm up to lots of different things in the world just to help us connect back to the truth of who we are,

Animals or humans.

Yeah.

Well,

My cat went through kidney stones this past week.

So I've been communicating with her and making sure that she's got all that she needs and not grateful,

You know,

As cats tend to be.

Thanks for spending $700.

Just walks away.

Uh,

So you have pet insurance is my question.

I'm going to get it now,

Jamie.

So,

So you're,

You're teaching all of these cool courses,

Doing intuitive work with humans,

With animals,

Online in person,

Retreats and one-on-one clients,

One-on-one clients.

And you also have always been an actor.

Yes.

Uh,

Which is,

I believe the appropriate term.

Now you don't even say actress anymore.

Everyone's an actor.

I don't even know.

That's like not politically correct.

Why do we all have to be grouped into that category?

Okay.

So,

Um,

You've clearly have that,

Uh,

Mastery over communication in so many different modalities.

How long have you been in this world of meditation and teaching for?

15 years.

Wow.

We are getting older.

We are getting older,

But looking younger every day.

Yeah,

You are.

Yep.

So,

Uh,

Let me ask,

You've been on this path a long,

A long time.

Um,

What is the state of the art of teaching these days?

What have you found today as a teacher,

The world of teaching that's different than maybe when you started?

And let me just preface that by just add or adding that,

You know,

A lot of people listening to this,

Either they are teachers or they want to become teachers or guides or coaches or do retreats or one-on-ones.

And the point of these conversations is to bring in teachers I know and love and have them share their journey,

Their professional journey into becoming teachers.

And so how does,

How is it being a teacher now versus when you got started?

What has changed?

Hmm.

That's a great question.

Um,

I'm going to start with what's changed in me first,

Cause maybe it can assist others.

Um,

I have really seen through my journey that I am the medicine,

Like my,

My embodied experience.

And so I think in the beginning I was trying to innocently and unconsciously perhaps teach above my pay grade.

I have to know all of these things and I have to be really good at this and all of this stuff people might tell you.

And again,

It's great.

Get the education.

And when I realized I was enough or I'm on the journey of realizing I'm enough,

Um,

It's that what,

What lights me up because when I'm,

When I'm lit up,

People are going to feel that and that's medicinal.

Um,

And so I think in the beginning it's been more,

It was more mental and now it's more,

Um,

What brings me joy and where can I put myself in those places so that other people feel it too.

And before we go into the next part,

What,

Why do we need,

Why do we need medicine?

What do we need medicine for?

What is the,

What is the illness?

I mean by that,

What is the illness?

That's a great question.

When I say medicine,

It's your energy field emanating something,

Uh,

Something yummy,

Something needed by the planet.

For example,

Like when you go into a forest,

It just,

The medicine might be peace.

It just feels the emanation,

Energetic medicine,

I'm calling it.

So perhaps what's coming to my mind is permission giving.

So I was just in Ibiza,

Ibiza,

Spain,

And I was around a friend who is so comfortable in her sexuality,

So comfortable in her sexual energy.

And a lot of people in Ibiza are,

It's a open party.

Everybody's on something town.

And I noticed that without someone having a slam teaching down my throat or give me all this knowledge,

Being in the environment,

The energetic medicine of these people gave me permission to stand a little taller,

To maybe,

Um,

In an aligned way,

Show more skin,

To feel free in my expression and the way that I wanted to in my feminine energy.

Um,

And like,

Thank you to them.

I needed that.

And so we all,

I believe,

Have a special sauce,

Um,

Of what is natural to us.

That's easy.

And when we emanate it,

It's like a breath of fresh air for other people.

So to me,

It's more of a focus on what,

What is my true essence that when I emanated effortlessly without having to push hard or prove it positively benefits people around me through effortlessness,

Right.

There might obviously are inspired actions to take.

Um,

But yeah,

That's how I see it.

Uh,

Producers,

Please cut out the whole Ibiza part.

We can't talk about that on CBS.

Am I allowed to?

I thought that while I was saying it.

Of course you can.

I kept it so PG.

Oh my God,

I could have said more.

Oh,

I'm joking.

Of course you can.

And so,

Yeah,

Everybody's medicine to the world you're saying is them finding their essence and then sharing it.

Being it.

Being it.

And,

Um,

And so,

So as a teacher,

Your job is to help people find that in,

In themselves and bring it out.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

Really good guides,

I believe.

And this is again,

My journey from where I started to where I am now is about empowerment.

Um,

I don't know if you have it in front of you.

I don't have it in front of me,

But the medicine woman prayer,

Do you know it?

I definitely don't have it in front of me.

No,

I don't know it.

That's hilarious.

Do you have this in front of you,

David?

Well,

I thought maybe you could Google it.

That's all.

Wait,

Doesn't,

Uh,

You know,

Those podcasters,

They always have a guy on the side,

Like,

Hey,

Pull this up.

My cat.

Yeah.

My cat is just over there.

Stop at the cat videos.

She,

She wants the medicine woman prayer.

Enlighten us.

What is,

Do you,

Do you know it?

What is the medicine woman prayer?

Don't,

I'd have to Google it.

It's a couple of sentences.

It's very beautiful.

Um,

The essence of it is I will not try to save you or rescue you.

I will walk beside you.

I will empower you.

I will teach you and guide you to do it for yourself.

And that's so hard because we come in sometimes,

You know,

I had the codependent upbringing and empath and sensitive and all of that.

And we want to fix,

We want to save.

And it's so innocent.

But I think you say to me,

Like the trajectory,

And I know I'm kind of,

My mind goes to internal States,

But,

Um,

From that,

I got to save everybody is where I was.

And now it's like,

How can I be an illumination,

Not in the cocky way,

But just in a worthiness way?

How can I be an illumination of my truth?

I always say as an item on the grocery store shelf so that when you walk in and go,

Oh,

That one looks cool.

I'd like that.

You can see an example of something that already exists.

Um,

And you know,

Emanate,

Emanate that for other people.

So yeah,

The medicine woman prayer is so beautiful.

Uh,

I actually wanted to print it out and put it by my desk to be like,

When you show up,

Just honey,

You are so enough to,

Um,

To just emanate and people will still come.

When you think of yourself on the grocery shelf,

Are you like,

Are you cereal?

Are you jam?

Are you applesauce?

What's your choice?

Girl,

I am.

I am organic,

Gluten-free,

Expensive.

That is the most Los Angeles thing you've ever said.

Yeah.

Well,

I have a little bit of that in me.

Yeah.

I,

I lived there for a couple of years and that's how everyone eats and shops.

So,

And so that's the internal side of the inner and the energetic side and on the physical side,

I'm assuming you started teaching in person and now you're doing both.

What have you noticed shift in that world as a teacher over the years?

Like how,

What,

What was it like when you started and what is it like now?

Right.

And I think too,

Mostly in person when I started,

Right,

I was in the studio,

I was with the people,

I was driving to all the places,

Driving all around town.

Um,

And then,

You know,

When COVID hit,

Everything went virtual.

So my business since then,

Because a lot of my,

Actually none of my corporates went back to in person,

Even though they're all at the office,

None of them.

And I still have the job.

Um,

But yeah,

Man,

I was driving to everything,

Which was beautiful because there was this beautiful in-person experience.

And then it went all online.

So I had to figure that out.

You know,

I think adapting to adapting is huge in this world.

Um,

And then now and I'd be curious about how it is for you too,

But it's,

It's a hybrid.

Like a lot of people are like,

I want to put my feet on the earth and I want to hug a person.

And I want to,

Especially with AI,

Which I love in moderation and balance.

Um,

But I think the thing it can't do is,

Is,

You know,

Hugging and holding each other and,

You know,

Touching the grass with our toes.

So I'm creating more of these events now for us to gather,

But also,

You know,

Showing up on zoom too.

So,

So an integration,

I would say that's a big part of the change too.

Yeah.

It may be the hybrid is kind of where we're going.

Yeah.

Uh,

Maybe some folks listening who are,

Or want to be meditation teachers,

You,

You glossed over all of these incredible companies and it's probably most teachers dream to be able to go into all of these incredible companies and get to teach meditation.

I mean,

Oh my God,

That is a,

That is a dream for most teachers.

How,

It seems so hard to break into,

Unless you're friends with Jamie Wasney and she gets you a job like you did for me.

How did you get into it?

How did you break in?

Okay.

I'll be honest.

I'm going to be honest.

So I,

And you're good at this,

David.

And I wouldn't say do this from your head just to let the organic flow be here.

Relationships,

Be around your friends,

Be around people.

I had social anxiety,

Panic attacks,

All that stuff.

I hated leaving my house and being around people.

And every time I am,

And I challenge myself to go to a dinner party or teach at the meditation studio,

How I,

How I got NBC was the girl that taught a class in front of,

Before me at the den,

Uh,

Was teaching there and wanted to start a brand new business and was like,

Would you sub for me?

So I went in and they were like,

We absolutely love you.

How can we get you as a regular teacher in here?

Um,

So,

So there's,

As you ask me,

It's some kind of seeing them at the,

The parts,

Do your,

What's the 10,

000 hours thing?

Like do my teacher says,

Do your art.

So do your art,

Teach meditation.

I started,

I had this circle called a rad attitude circle.

Turn your attitude from a bad attitude to a rad attitude.

And it was free at a chiropractor's office for years.

And I had one person,

Two people,

Three people,

But I taught,

I showed up and I had my little book and my exercises in my folder with,

I would cut out these,

Like back when we read magazines,

I would cut out inspiration from magazines and I just did what I loved all the fucking time.

And I think having that preparation and just showing up,

Even if you're not being paid for it.

And I wouldn't say do it from a place of have to do this.

Cause Jamie just said it on a podcast,

Just start the thing and show up in your living room and do this stuff.

So I had the practice so that when that opportunity came,

I showed up so professional and I showed up so ready and you have this experience.

My teaching now is effortless,

But it was 15 years of practice for it to look effortless and for it to be effortless.

Um,

They say,

Uh,

Uh,

Overnight success takes about 10 years.

Yes.

Yes.

That,

Yeah,

That,

That definitely tracks.

Um,

You know,

I talked to Michael Galleon,

One of our other teachers,

And he was telling me he would get one,

Two,

Five people in his early classes and he just pushed through.

And that's this,

I think that's the start for all,

Almost all of us.

And yeah,

Your ego might take a ding,

But it's actually where you want to be because then you get to connect closely with individuals and,

And,

And get some good practice.

And,

Um,

So yeah,

Yeah.

For any,

Everyone listening to that,

We all had the classes,

One,

Two,

Three people.

The only person that shows up is your cousin,

Your mother,

You know,

Your brother.

Yeah.

And I still,

I want to be super transparent.

If I test a new idea that nobody knows before,

I still have that.

And it's,

It's,

It's terribly uncomfortable.

If I'm in a new location,

No one knows about it.

Oh,

Wow.

We don't know Jamie.

Cause I'm,

I'm a,

I have a poetry book too.

And I'm in just,

I'm starting to share my poetry just to show about an authentic expression.

And,

Um,

You know,

Oh,

We didn't know she did that.

So it might take a minute to,

To build in that way.

And so it's,

That's horribly painful and don't let it mean something about you other than I'm testing something out,

You know?

Um,

I also want to share there because I,

I had those experiences where I were,

Where,

Where I was referred.

And then in the four agreements I showed up and I did my best.

I just,

You know,

I prepared myself.

I showed up,

Did my work before and peaceful and,

You know,

Did the meditation.

Which agreement is that of the four?

Do your best,

Always do your best.

Is that like the third?

Is there an order to them?

Oh,

I think it might be the last one.

I don't know.

Last one.

But Matt could really,

Go ahead.

That's a good book.

Don Miguel Ruiz.

We,

We share a publisher and I know him and his sons that are a really lovely family.

Thank you for that.

Do,

Actually Ed Fox,

Who,

You know,

He teaches in this teacher training with us too.

He,

Him and his wife taught with Don Miguel Ruiz for 15 years.

And,

And so,

Yeah,

They're still going,

Those guys,

They're still teaching.

Anyway,

I digress.

No,

Yeah.

It's well,

Do your best.

Always do your best.

And we don't want to mean I'm not enough,

But it's like,

Did I,

Did I show up from my heart today?

Did I try?

Did I give?

So there's that,

Right?

Opportunity when people ask for something.

And I've always been,

Cause I keep thinking,

I'm like,

Well,

When people asked me these things,

I was willing to be messy and imperfect.

So somebody might get that opportunity and be like,

I'm not ready for that.

But if it's,

If you're being invited to it,

It's okay to,

Again,

Always do your best,

But you don't have to be a hundred percent there yet.

You're,

You're,

You're evolving,

You're growing,

You're learning,

You're taking David's meditation teacher programs who,

To,

You know,

Perfect your craft.

Um,

So I think a willingness to be a student and there are agencies and companies that book you for corporate gigs.

So way back when I was paid,

Absolutely nothing,

But I loved it.

You know,

You're doing what you love cause you're like,

I don't care if you're paying me $45 a week,

I'm so excited to be here.

Um,

And that energy is contagious,

You know?

And so I actually had numerous experiences where I'd be with a company and they'd call me on the side.

Okay.

Hold this loosely.

Cause I was with them for a long time.

I had to really tune into if this was,

If this was an integrity or not.

And they'd say,

We just want to work with you because we've been working with you for years.

How can we go about doing that?

Um,

And I'd have to,

You know,

Have agreements and boundaries and are we sure this is okay?

So that's a rare experience.

That's an outlier,

But,

Um,

You know,

You can get started that way too.

Just get your foot in the door.

Yeah.

And so,

Um,

It's a mix of hard work,

Timing,

Luck,

Good,

Good relationships.

I agree.

Connections.

Um,

When you go and teach something corporate,

For example,

What are they looking for?

What,

How do you structure if you have,

What do you have 30 minutes in the middle of the day with a,

With a room full of people?

How do you decide what journey to take them on?

What are they usually looking for?

What have you found works?

And answer those in order.

Okay.

I wrote all that down.

My guy got all that and he's showing me what I need.

Yeah.

My cat got it too.

She's writing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They only pay,

We pay them 45 bucks for the week,

But they love their jobs.

They're thriving in spirit.

Um,

So,

Okay.

I have a corporate page on my website.

Highly recommend that.

And I have different offerings,

15 minutes,

30 minutes,

45 minutes,

Hour,

Hour and a half.

So if somebody comes to me,

I'll say,

What timeframe sounds good for you?

You know,

What are your needs?

What do you need for me?

And I usually ask them,

Is it a possibility to send your company a questionnaire saying that this is,

Um,

Private,

Just seen by Jamie.

And I keep your name anonymous of what your needs are,

What your desires are,

What your challenges are.

So I'll get an idea of like what the company's struggling with.

Um,

And I'll even just say to the HR person or whoever's organizing it with me,

You know,

Do you have any themes or intentions?

And a lot of times God bless,

But it's like,

How can I reduce my stress or how it's just like the biggest,

Broadest stuff.

Um,

I think I've just,

Oh,

No,

We're good.

Uh,

I thought I tapped my mic out.

Um,

So,

So I,

I do ask and I get requests.

So I just did that recently where I'll,

I don't know,

Once every six months,

Even just say,

Even if I'm not starting at the beginning,

Hey,

Can you send out a little thing and see what's going on with people?

I got four replies and then I did a four part series.

So I was like,

These are your requests and here's our four part series.

So this is something I've done forever where this was a huge life lesson for me too,

But I will pair their needs with my gifts.

So it won't make their needs more important than mine.

And I won't make my gifts override,

Like what this company needs.

I try to find like with what you guys just shared,

How can I bring a Jamie sauce in?

Um,

And we meet in the middle.

So if they don't give ideas,

Cause I'll even say at the end of my meditations,

Any ideas you guys have,

If you're struggling with something,

Email me,

I'll create a meditation for you.

So I'm very open about asking for requests,

But I get quiet a lot in my own heart before I go live.

Cause I'm teaching meditations like all the time,

Every week.

Um,

How many times do you think you teach?

I mean,

There were right now five,

But there were,

Especially when I was teaching like five classes at the den for awhile and you know,

Four corporates.

And then I run these eight week programs and I've got the one-on-one clients and all of this stuff.

So,

You know,

I'm showing up a lot and I wouldn't recommend this for somebody just starting out,

But I have such a trust in my ability now to tune into the energy of the group I'm about to give a meditation,

Guide a meditation for.

And I just say,

What's needed?

Like a real quiet and I asked the question,

Like what's needed in that group?

And I'll get a kind of a quiet whisper of something that feels exciting or inspiring.

And I trust it and I've learned to trust it cause it comes from a deeper place than my mind.

Um,

And I'm also willing for it to shift and change.

So it's like,

I have that masculine structure,

But I have such a beautiful feminine energy,

Which is malleable and moving,

Um,

Where I meet the present moment with the group and let it kind of morph into a piece of art.

Um,

So I don't know if I answered all your questions,

But I just spoke from the moment.

Yeah.

Uh,

And so,

Uh,

You know,

Some people might,

I,

I,

I've struggled with this a little bit when you do corporate stuff,

Cause you also do a lot of healing work and you teach Reiki and animal communication.

And so you're,

You've got a foot in both worlds.

Maybe it's cause it's they don't,

But do they care or mind or know that you do all this other spiritual stuff?

And do they ask you to keep it out of the building or out of the room when you're teaching or do they let you do what you do?

I love this question.

I absolutely love this question.

I love answering this question.

Um,

I,

I still bring Jamie,

Which is very mystical and out there and animals and goddesses and whatever,

Like all the,

The mystic type stuff to the meditation.

I was in a mindset when I first started the semantics of the word corporate business.

I can only use the word breath work or meditation or mindfulness,

Or like,

We gotta be real by the book and we don't even never use the word God just don't use it.

There are companies that will come to me and say,

Hey,

Can you make this more science-based?

And so I will teach the same thing and I will use the word quantum physics,

Atoms,

Nature,

Whatever it might be,

Brain,

Uh,

Neurotransmitters,

Rewiring the brain,

Whatever.

Um,

And that's fine.

But I,

Especially NBC who I've been with for so long,

I bring in,

Um,

Activated poetry and guide them through these things.

I bring in Reiki,

I bring in divine channeling from ascended masters.

Um,

I say the word God and source probably almost every Wednesday because they love Jamie because they are okay with it.

Now,

I think would I have done that in the beginning?

No,

But I've trusted that I can slowly,

Uh,

Find an appropriate way in.

And I,

I,

I will push the edges sometimes on some of the corporates and my mind,

My human mind goes,

Oh my God,

I cannot believe you just said that you're going to get fired.

HR is going to be like,

What the hell that has never happened.

That has never happened.

Every single time I get a Bravo.

Thank you.

Um,

Because they're people too.

They love animal communication too.

I had one corporate that found out that I did animal communication.

This was years ago.

And they were like,

Can we have a bring our dog to work day?

And you come in and talk to all of them.

And I'm like,

This is a PR,

A very rich PR company by the book in Santa Monica,

California.

And I'm psychically speaking to their dogs at work and they're like,

Calm,

Like do that.

So I think the more I've been unapologetic,

Softly,

Gently following my intuition of where it's welcome.

Um,

I've been,

Been met in spades and that's why like,

You know,

Full circle moment to the liberated self-class,

Like that's my own journey of saying,

I know this is corporate,

But these are people.

And why can't we allow in,

Um,

Certain things now I'm saying that where I'm not a very polarizing person.

I wouldn't call myself somebody that's like,

You know,

There are people that have that path in life.

So would I come in hardcore and just be like God or Jesus or whatever words are really triggering?

No,

I'll say it,

But I'll,

I'll say whatever word resonates with you,

Throw out words that I say that you don't like use the,

You know,

So,

So I still hold my truth,

But I hold my truth in an inclusive way.

And I think that's an important thing to say.

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah.

If I threw out some of those words,

Like when I teach at Cornell,

I think I'd be out the door really quick.

But you might be surprised.

Yeah.

You might be surprised.

Maybe,

Maybe.

Um,

Also I found that when you really master some energy or material,

You,

You,

It gets easier using any language.

Obviously you might have to learn a language,

Learn the language of science or learn the language of spirituality or learn the language of secular mindfulness.

And I find it fine to speak in any language.

Um,

I feel like I'm like,

Uh,

Bilingual in,

In,

In meditation or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um,

Yeah.

So for those budding meditation teachers who are worried about how to say it,

Maybe it's,

Maybe you can learn a new language and just speak it when you,

Instead of a different country,

It's like,

Oh,

This is the corporate world.

I'll speak that language.

This is the spiritual world.

I can speak that language.

That's how I've always experienced it.

And it doesn't bother me at all.

If I'm helping awaken some consciousness in a room and helping someone separate from their noisy mind,

I don't care what they believe at all.

I'm interested in their inner peace.

Um,

That's it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Your,

Your friend who I did a reading with once,

Um,

Said to me,

You know,

It doesn't matter.

Like maybe you're getting the information from Archangel Michael,

For example,

But you don't need to tell people that it's,

It's beautiful higher information that's helping the people.

It could be from Archangel Michael or like the knowledge I've learned through the years on planet earth,

Like whatever.

It's compassionate to meet people where they are,

I think.

Yeah.

But also you can't,

Yeah.

Be yourself.

Yeah.

I was sorry.

I was going to say a good way.

Michael Galleon put it to me the other day was he,

He,

He said you as a teacher kind of get out of the way and let the information come through you,

Um,

More,

More than from you.

And I like,

I like that way of,

Of looking at it and thinking of it.

Um,

So yeah.

Yeah.

Uh,

Thanks for sharing all of that in your,

In your journey in the,

In the whole corporate world for somebody who is just starting on the path or going to be starting on the path of being a teacher.

Do you have any insight for them on how to be successful maybe not quit too soon.

Some of the roadblocks,

Uh,

And again,

In that order.

Yeah.

Oh God.

Um,

David getting anxiety.

No.

Um,

Yes.

Let's see here.

Don't be afraid to test a lot of stuff out and try.

Um,

David was a helper of that energy for me.

He would tell me that a lot.

You'd be like,

Test out this lead magnet.

And I'm like,

But what if I fail?

Um,

Try stuff.

It's going to hurt when it doesn't work out maybe,

But try not to take it how to be successful.

It is being willing to try a whole bunch of stuff.

There's a mentor of mine,

Michael Neal,

And he's a mazillionaire.

And he,

He says the literally the secret to success is simple.

Try a whole bunch of stuff out.

See what works.

Keep doing that.

See what doesn't work.

Stop doing that over and over and over again.

Um,

So practice,

Try be willing to be messy and imperfect and human that I think that requires a deep level of vulnerability to be seen in your process,

Which isn't easy,

Which is why you need these beautiful containers of support to say,

Oh my gosh,

I'm not alone in this,

You know,

Or,

Or teachers 15 years in when they test a new thing,

Have nobody show up or one person to show up.

Oh my gosh,

There's nothing wrong with me.

Um,

This is a big one for me is,

And I would say even on a practical level.

So write down on a piece of paper,

What are the possibilities available to you right now where you are right?

Oh,

I could start a,

A free thing at the farmer's market.

I could create a profile on insight timer.

I could guide my mom in meditations,

Like whatever it is for you,

Wherever you are.

Maybe it's a bigger opportunity.

Oh my gosh.

Jamie just said,

There's companies that book out.

Maybe I can Google if there's a company near me and I could,

Or I could start a website page or whatever it is for you.

Write down what's available,

Whether you're afraid to do it or not,

Like what's in your awareness,

Your,

Your field.

Um,

And then see which thing,

And you kind of maybe need to take a deep breath and close your eyes or really slow down with a piece of paper.

Which of the things does your body feel pulled towards?

Do you feel a little bit of excitement or openness or joy towards?

Um,

And then start with that.

Like it's as,

It's as simple as that because I do this now.

If I have this like analysis paralysis,

Or I was just talking to David about this of like,

I still have,

I'm gifted with all these things.

Where do I focus my energy?

Look at all the possibilities and see which thing your body likes.

See which thing you're drawn towards.

See which thing that brings you joy and just start there because that's that first step.

That's enough.

That's enough.

And that's that first step.

That's going to open you to the next step,

Right?

The,

How I started with the den back in the day,

I wasn't even on it.

And I saw a girl who was in my Reiki master training with me.

So we knew each other asking for a sub at the den and it just kind of had that feeling.

I didn't write it down on paper,

But I was like,

Ooh,

There was like a pull in that direction.

I wrote to her.

I was the first person to write to her.

And so I became the sub there.

Hold,

You don't have to be crazy reckless with this thing.

You hear the stories of I shaved my head and moved to Bali.

Great.

If that's your truth,

But you can also,

You're not a bunch of side jobs for a long time.

I was writing reviews.

I remember one night I had this crazy ass retainer thing in and Ryan's like,

What are you doing?

I'm like,

I'm making 25 bucks to like test this retainer and write a review.

But my point is be gentle with yourself in your process.

Follow what you love because I'm,

Again,

There's that back to the beginning.

That's your medicine.

That's your joy.

So as best as you can in this journey,

And you're going to go back to your head a thousand times,

But if you catch yourself in comparison,

I got to do it the way everybody else is doing it.

I should be doing this.

It's like,

Slow down,

Breathe,

Go into your own meditation practice,

Come back home.

Well,

It feels expansive or good to do next.

And that doesn't mean there's not going to be challenges because even David said to me,

It's funny to see how far I've come because I look back at all the text stuff I was so afraid of.

And I mean,

You know,

The lead magnets and the newsletters and the like telesummits and all this stuff I do know that's just natural to me that back in the day,

I remember having a conversation with David and he was like,

And I'm like,

Oh,

It's so uncomfortable to understand it.

So there's going to be that,

But there's also contained within that,

That feeling of joy or movement in that direction.

So trust that,

Try it out,

Let it be messy.

Um,

It's okay to fail and you'll,

You'll find your groove.

You'll find your groove.

Oh,

You know what?

I forgot,

But we,

We taught a retreat together once in Bali.

We taught two!

No,

We taught two retreats together,

But yes,

One was in Bali.

And,

Uh,

I remember that was a big journey for you to travel was,

Was kind of a new thing for you to travel like that as a teacher.

Yes,

Because you are up against your trauma and your nervous system.

So I was,

As,

As I expand as a teacher and as you expand as a teacher,

Yeah,

It's like you,

You set sails for your intention.

Okay.

I want to be in my truth.

I want to be a teacher.

I want to be a guide.

I want to be healer,

Whatever it is for you.

And then the stuff that comes up between you and it is there to,

David says that the only way out is through to,

To be there,

To be with it,

To purify it,

To let the energy move.

Um,

And so,

Yeah,

My nervous system went,

Oh my gosh,

I'm by myself.

I'm far away from home.

I'm whatever.

Um,

And so I had to meet that with grace.

I had to meet that with friends who were,

Were there for me,

You know,

At the same time.

And so,

Uh,

Yeah,

It's okay to be a human and know that,

That things come up.

I even remember hearing Marie Forleo,

Who's like a huge teacher in this world for like on the business level,

Talk about that.

She's like,

Every time I,

That Gay Hendrix book,

Upper Limit,

She's like,

Every time I hit my upper limit,

She gets sick or she like some sort of innocent,

Unconscious self-sabotage,

But it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you and that you're not meant to be healer or guide.

It's like,

Okay,

Well,

Part of me is afraid because I'm expanding that I can tend to,

To move to my next level.

Yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

Yeah.

Um,

Yeah,

By the way,

Yeah.

Only way around is through.

I made that up and Robert Frost stole it from me.

These darn poet thieves.

I have a t-shirt of your face that says that.

No.

So I think it's you.

No.

No one has a t-shirt of my face,

I hope.

Um,

How,

Uh,

Let,

Let's just,

Uh,

Start to wind down,

But before we do,

I do want to ask how Insight Timer is going for you as a teacher,

Because a lot of new teachers,

That's where they start these days.

They go on there,

They create a profile,

They start sharing different audios and doing lives,

Which earlier you said you've been doing a few a month.

How is,

How has that journey been for you?

Um,

Insight Timer has always been a blessing for me.

It has always been light.

I have had to be consistent.

I put up at least one meditation a month.

I've got,

I think,

Six courses on their paid tracks that I professed,

Got professionally done.

Um,

And it was for a long time,

Cause they have this beautiful flow on there where I'll go live.

And then I say,

If you really liked this,

This course is similar.

I made an amazing amount of passive income for the following that I had on there for the amount of people that were taking my things.

It's so good.

Even if you don't have that for testimonials,

Right?

You're building your website.

It's awesome to get reviews and testimonials and get a few of those.

Um,

Practice just putting yourself out there.

It,

I've gotten so many,

Even if it wasn't directly,

People that found me through,

I'm sure you've had this experience Insight Timer,

One-on-one clients,

People that came into my eight week courses that I'm running.

I used to make great money on there.

At the moment it's greatly reduced,

But I think that a lot of,

I've talked to a lot of other teachers that are on Insight Timer.

The,

The way that they're paying it has shifted a little bit.

I don't know the exact situation that's causing that.

So I,

I have had to kind of open up my mind to like,

Okay,

What are other channels that are more reliable for me to bring in income?

So I don't quote unquote rely on it as much anymore.

Um,

But I'll tell you,

David,

I,

This is God,

God's honest truth.

Those two nights of the month that I go live on Insight Timer are the happiest two nights of my month.

I love being in community with people.

I love it live where we're talking and we're just downloading all this amazing information,

Um,

In real time.

And so I don't know,

For me,

That's enough.

Uh,

But yeah,

I think it's,

It's a great start.

I think it's a great start.

And again,

I've been doing it for a long time and I'd love to know how to monetize more on there with the current climate,

But I know everybody's kind of dealing with that.

Yeah.

Uh,

Every teacher I know has taken a,

Around a 50% pay cut on there in the last,

Since they changed their algorithm,

Uh,

Which I,

I partially understand because they were losing money for like eight or nine straight years and they had to finally show profitability to their investors.

So,

Uh,

For us as teachers,

It definitely kind of sucks.

Uh,

And I also,

Oh,

It said my connection is unstable.

What?

Yeah,

It was a little bloop for a second.

I thought our connection was stable,

Jamie.

Um,

So what I was just saying was,

Yeah,

They,

They definitely,

Everyone's taking a haircut and they don't show profits.

So,

Uh,

I get it.

And it's pushing a lot of teachers on there to have to find other ways,

Other sources of income.

On the positive side,

They've added retreats.

So you can put,

I don't know if you put your den retreat on there,

But you can.

Oh,

I'll have to let them know.

I didn't realize that.

Oh,

You should definitely put it on your profile.

A thousand percent.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh,

And for those of you,

Just so you know,

If you ever do that,

They take 10%,

Which I think you're going to spend 10% on marketing in one way or another.

So I don't think it's a bad deal at all.

And,

Um,

And then also they said they're going to start having paid lives.

They haven't rolled out a timeline yet,

So maybe it'll be 2026 or late 2025.

But if you build a,

Uh,

A student base on there,

Perhaps at some point you can make a living teaching live on there too.

So that,

That would be cool.

And I've always found not to,

As a teacher,

Panic when things like that happen.

Like,

Oh my God,

My revenue is down.

I don't know what to do.

Obviously panicking doesn't usually help.

So,

Uh,

Like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,

You just have to travel the universe with a towel.

That's a reference to the movie.

But anyway,

Uh,

I always just look,

I always look around and go,

Okay,

That,

That river is shifting.

Um,

Let's look at other opportunities.

Is there somewhere else I need to put my energy or,

Uh,

So I always try to approach it,

No competition,

No problem.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

The next thing,

Right?

What's the next piece?

Yeah,

I know.

I had to,

And you know,

Your human mind's going to go,

Oh my God,

Right?

You're going to have that moment where I was like,

What's the amount coming in that is different than I usually get?

Why is there a zero missing?

Right,

Right.

I was like,

That's weird.

Um,

And I actually have a meditation on there that I just recently put called Source is Your Source.

And I had to say,

The Insight Timer isn't my source.

It's an estuary.

It is a,

It is a way source gets to me and,

And that's okay.

And so sources,

Like David just said,

Source is my source and I'm going to listen to where my energy needs to go and flow now.

So if you're struggling with that,

That meditation is on there.

It's free.

I'll let the Insight Timer management know that they are not your source.

They're an estuary.

I'll pass it forward.

Don't tell them.

Well,

If they're deep spiritual people,

They'll get it.

They are.

They're great people.

I know them.

I've known them for years and they're,

They're,

They're awesome people and their heart has always been in the right place.

So yeah,

You can feel it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They've always tried to navigate all of this the best that they can.

So high five to them.

Yes.

Well,

Before,

Before we finish,

Maybe just last thing would be,

If there's any insights over the last 15 years that you've really learned that maybe you were surprised by at becoming a teacher and deepening into being a teacher that you could pass the baton or pass,

You know,

Some insight to the next round of teachers,

Something that you didn't know was going to unfold or that they can be aware of that they might deepen into,

Is there anything that comes to mind that you would want to share?

That's a great question.

I may repeat some of the ones that I said,

But I'm just going to,

You know,

Speak from my heart.

You are enough.

You do not have to wait until that is the trick of the mind.

It'll tell you when I'm ready,

You can,

You can speak at your pay grade.

There's always something that you know that the people right before you don't know yet,

You don't have to be Deepak Chopra or whoever the heck you think,

Wherever you're going,

David Gandelman,

Jamie Wiseman,

All the people,

You don't have to be there yet.

So I always do that.

You know,

What do I know that,

That I'm excited about,

That you're excited about that the people right before me might not know.

And that's a great place to start.

So you're enough to do that.

I'm going to repeat this because this is your divinity is enough,

Meaning your medicine,

Your emanation.

I thought,

Bless my heart,

This is a huge insight I had to give,

And it's good to be an integrity with value.

Okay.

But I thought I had to give you all this stuff for you to keep coming back.

And I,

Instead it's like,

No,

Show up present,

Show up honest,

Show up from your heart,

Do your best.

That is the value.

You,

Your life experience,

Your embodied journey,

The medicine,

Energetic medicine that you're emanating is the value and is the gift.

And that can take years to see.

And then again,

From that place,

There might be action steps.

Oh,

I'm going to create this course,

Or I'm going to,

Oh,

My friend wants me to be a teacher on the meditation school or whatever it might be.

I'm going to go live on insight timer.

But you'd be surprised that you can,

People will pay you and you can deeply benefit or they can deeply benefit from something that is so natural to you.

It's okay to be messy and fail and try a bunch of stuff and be wrong.

It's going to be uncomfortable.

Oh,

And this is a huge one.

Okay.

As an entrepreneur,

I'm going to call you all that for a second.

You don't have a boss that's like,

You can clock in at nine and you can clock out at five.

So if I have really had to honor this inner navigation that I'm up saying quotes is my boss of Jamie,

You've worked enough today,

Stop.

Or the Jamie that's afraid of discomfort that says,

I know we don't want to do something right now,

But show up.

And so I've had to really learn that inner navigation of go stop,

Pause,

Follow the joy of this experience.

As opposed to the,

You know,

I am my own boss.

I've got still got a to-do list.

I'm not successful enough.

I got to keep grinding.

I got to keep working.

It's like,

No,

Wipe the slate clear of that.

You have this beautiful flow and current and guide.

And I think perfecting,

This is another thing you'll learn in David's school too,

But perfecting that wisdom and that compass and listening and trusting that.

And that's a process if you've had trauma,

Isn't going to steer you wrong,

I believe.

So those are some of the things that are top of heart for me.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Amen.

And when you have time,

Let's set up a call between you and my cat,

Please.

Hey,

I'm here for you.

Yeah,

I'm here for you.

Thank you.

Such a pleasure.

Thanks for coming,

Sharing all of your wisdom and experience with everybody.

And for those who are going to do teacher training with us,

They'll have the chance to work one-on-one with you if they want to set up.

That'd be great.

I would love that.

Yeah.

Jamie Wasdy,

Great to see you.

Thanks for sitting with me today.

Thanks to everyone for being here and listening.

See you.

See you next time.

Love you.

Bye.

Thanks.

Reviews

I really liked this conversation. Thank you for all the advice, specially fo new meditation guides 🙏

David this was so insightful and really informative. As a new meditation teacher, I found so many helpful tips and inspiration from both you and Jamie. Love you both and appreciate you focusing on this toll pic and for both of your time in creating it. 💗💗💗 😸